soft Qi gong hard Qi gong,

i want to discuss soft Qi gong, and the healing benefits of this for you and the enviroment/people around you,


does anybody have any first hand experience in healing with Qi gong,?

i personally see it on a daily basis usually, i will discuss my experiences and knowledge soon, i just want to read some events and experiences others have had across the world,


peace,

Can't say I have heard of it. Although a quick google suggests similarities with Tai Chi.

maybe you could describe how they differ?

Can't say I have heard of it. Although a quick google suggests similarities with Tai Chi.

maybe you could describe how they differ?

Qi Gong is a series of exercises. Tai Chi is exercise. Both supposedly increase 'chi flow', and there are various mystical aspects overlayed on this.

Basically, it's about breathing and circulation, nothing mystic.

Still healthy, mystical or not.

Anything that gets the body to move and stretch is healthy. Burning calories is good if you take in a lot and don't exercise enough. If people are motivated to exercise because of the alleged "mystical" properties of a particular belief, more power to them. But its nothing a well rounded program at a gym can't do.

Acupuncture practices associated with "qigong" appear to have some promise, however. Its doubtful that anything 'mystical' is occuring and is the results are likely due to release of endorphins or some similarly reasonable cause. More study needs to be done on this, however. The Uni of Heidelberg ran a study in 2004 that compared the use of real acupuncture needles with a fake one that couldn't be detected by the patient. There were some mixed results: the overall analysis showed no significant difference between placebo & real; but a sub-group analysis revealed some significance in favor of the real.

Anything that gets the body to move and stretch is healthy. Burning calories is good if you take in a lot and don't exercise enough. If people are motivated to exercise because of the alleged "mystical" properties of a particular belief, more power to them. But its nothing a well rounded program at a gym can't do.

Acupuncture practices associated with "qigong" appear to have some promise, however. Its doubtful that anything 'mystical' is occuring and is the results are likely due to release of endorphins or some similarly reasonable cause. More study needs to be done on this, however. The Uni of Heidelberg ran a study in 2004 that compared the use of real acupuncture needles with a fake one that couldn't be detected by the patient. There were some mixed results: the overall analysis showed no significant difference between placebo & real; but a sub-group analysis revealed some significance in favor of the real.
Why does it have to be mystical? It's only mystical if you don't understand it.

Also recent studies show that Accupuncture is more than a placebo - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4493011.stm

Also recent studies show that Accupuncture is more than a placebo - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4493011.stm

I think I said that, genius.

Why does it have to be mystical? It's only mystical if you don't understand it.



The point is that most of the practitioners buy the mystic explanation, over the bio-mechanical one.

There is some science in it, but buried under too much mumbo jumbo.

The point is that most of the practitioners buy the mystic explanation, over the bio-mechanical one.

There is some science in it, but buried under too much mumbo jumbo.
I'm sure if you showed a caveman a TV he would find it very mystical and magical, because he doesn't understand how it works. Get it?

Except that even to the cave man, a working TV would work. Not so with many of the so-called "mystical" shit that people have been claiming to work for thousands of years. If it works, show the evidence.

Anything that gets the body to move and stretch is healthy. Burning calories is good if you take in a lot and don't exercise enough. If people are motivated to exercise because of the alleged "mystical" properties of a particular belief, more power to them. But its nothing a well rounded program at a gym can't do.

Acupuncture practices associated with "qigong" appear to have some promise, however. Its doubtful that anything 'mystical' is occuring and is the results are likely due to release of endorphins or some similarly reasonable cause. More study needs to be done on this, however. The Uni of Heidelberg ran a study in 2004 that compared the use of real acupuncture needles with a fake one that couldn't be detected by the patient. There were some mixed results: the overall analysis showed no significant difference between placebo & real; but a sub-group analysis revealed some significance in favor of the real.


just wanted to point out a few things,

taiji, and qi gong are simular, but there are some key differences, taiji is a martial arts combat style, hidden underneath healing and breathing excersize, (iron wrapped in cotton so to speak) qi gong is not a fighting style atall, its not a martial art, its purely to control qi soft qi gong, is the healing side, hard qi gong is to prepare your energy and body, for something such as shaolin gong fu, wich takes years and years of hard dedication, and you need to be conditioned before undertaking the hardships of shaolin training,

in qi gong you rarely have to move much atall, you are thinking of taiji (tai chi) with alot of movements and stretching type forms, you can do qi gong without moving much atall, simple breathing methods,

it is alot more than just good for your physical body, and someone said about bio and mystical, the mystical side to chinese and eastern methods are only mystical to those who dont see through the stories, they are very practical, it is anything but mystical to somebody who has fully grasped its true concepts, before fully understanding and appreciating this type of thing, you must come to terms with Qi, untill you realise qi exists and is not a myth you wont appreciate eastern ways of healthy living, and it will just be mumbo jumbo to you,

and by the way, thats incorrect, a western gym workout cannot give you the same results as a qigong, or taiji workout, thats bad information, as a personal trainer and martial arts teacher, having standpoints on both sides, i would disagree 100% with that, you gain different things from both, and they are both good,

http://www.pdrhealth.com/content/natural_medicine/chapters/201420.shtml


heres some nice information i found, i checked it through and it isnt missleading, the excersizes at the bottom are real ones, not made up bs,


peace,

thats incorrect, a western gym workout cannot give you the same results as a qigong, or taiji workout, thats bad information, as a personal trainer and martial arts teacher, having standpoints on both sides, i would disagree 100% with that, you gain different things from both, and they are both good,


As an ex-judoka who has fought Qi Gong/Kung Fu practitioners, and won, I think western gym workouts are just as successful.

Why don't you see Kung Fu practitioners in MMA? If Qi Gong is so superlative, MMA/UFC should be dominated by Kung Fu styles, but it is hardly represented, let alone dominant!

I know _belief_ is important to you, but you learn _the truth_ in combat.

As an ex-judoka who has fought Qi Gong/Kung Fu practitioners, and won, I think western gym workouts are just as successful.

Why don't you see Kung Fu practitioners in MMA? If Qi Gong is so superlative, MMA/UFC should be dominated by Kung Fu styles, but it is hardly represented, let alone dominant!

I know _belief_ is important to you, but you learn _the truth_ in combat.



are you joking me? any real martial artist wouldent enter a UFC match to begin with, martial arts was developed for self defence, for protecting yourself, staying healthy and protecting your loved ones,

UFC is a sport, and is for entertainment, if you think those guys are real warriors, then thats up to you, they disshonor martial arts, buy trying to hurt each other using flawed techniques, the reason why you have never seen a real shaolin gong fu (kung fu bastardisation) warrior monk in UFC is because they would not fight for fun and money, a real gong fu fighter has yet to enter UFC, just some watered down wushu guys with barely any real skill, weekend warriors, who train in gyms have bloated up muscle etc,


do you understand the difference between a sportsman and a warrior?.

look what happened when a real warrior enters the sports world, he ends up killing people and animals because his powers are to strong, do you want some evidence of a real traditional warrior fighting in tournements?, how about 270 bouts undefeated all ending in under 2 mins, most with a single blow, or how about when he defeated over 52 raging bulls and killed them all with his bare hands,

see this is what happens when a real warrior enters the land of western sports, and i hope it never happens again, i would hate to think the damage more real warriors would cause if they started to enter sports like boxing and UFC,


Mas Oyamam look him up and read about him, then maybe you will come abck and reconsider your take on sports and real self defence,



peace,

and yes judo is a nice sport, i train in judo myself, my uncle is known in judo he entered a few scotish championships back in the day, gordon kennedy you might know him,

judo is good and all but its not real situations, first of all when i went to judo class last with my uncle, i was sparring with the instructor, he attempted to grab me i evaded him, then side kicked his knee and punched his chest and he fell over and said, "no striking please"


what the hell is that about how can you realisticly train with rules? its stupid, when we train in shaolin there are no rules, just respect and ability to hold back your full power,

also look at what happens to UFC fighters ont he street, they get stabbed up and beat down all kinds of shit, i would really like to see someone liek tito ortiz go and start a fight with an elder shaolin monk, that would be some funny shit,


peace,

Emptyforceofchi,
In a conversation with a Kungfu practicioner today I mentioned qi gong and he said that it wasn't taught until well after black belt first dan is achieved. I guess various schools have various standards so there is no pont in asking whether what he said was valid or not but may I ask for a comment?

Also, often when watching martial arts warm ups there is usually the pressurising of air in the lungs and chest followed by a movement, usually a punching action. The vocal noise made is usually a "cheeeee" sound or something similar.

Now a question about observations;

I get the impression that the sound generated by this air clenching should be more a chi !.......a short "i" sound rather than a long "eeeeeee" sound. could you comment on this for me as well? I would appreciate it.
Assumption:
The short sound "i" conserves the chi where as the longer "eeeeeee" sound releases or expends the built up energy. So I would assume that "Chi" would be better than "cheeeeeeeee"

Emptyforceofchi,
In a conversation with a Kungfu practicioner today I mentioned qi gong and he said that it wasn't taught until well after black belt first dan is achieved. I guess various schools have various standards so there is no pont in asking whether what he said was valid or not but may I ask for a comment?

Also, often when watching martial arts warm ups there is usually the pressurising of air in the lungs and chest followed by a movement, usually a punching action. The vocal noise made is usually a "cheeeee" sound or something similar.

Now a question about observations;

I get the impression that the sound generated by this air clenching should be more a chi !.......a short "i" sound rather than a long "eeeeeee" sound. could you comment on this for me as well? I would appreciate it.
Assumption:
The short sound "i" conserves the chi where as the longer "eeeeeee" sound releases or expends the built up energy. So I would assume that "Chi" would be better than "cheeeeeeeee"


this is actually a very good question, also complicated,

there are many forms of martial arts wich use breathig differently, there are various noises made for various reasons, firstly all inhailing should be done through the nose, to regulate breathing you have to develop this kind of slow but steady breath control that takes awhile to get used to,

a Qigong student simular to a taiji student, will stand with a firm but relaxed stance, back straight hands to his side, put hands in a position just above the navel, its called the dantien point where your Qi cultivates to, steady his breath, his Yi (intention) must be focused on the Qi flow, as he raises his arms and hands with a certain posture (hard to explain with text i will get a diagram after i post this) as he raises his hands puts air into his lungs, as hands are raised ches high, then down again to your stomach, bringing the air/qi down bloating out your stomach area, as you go up again extend the qi/breath through your arms breathing out forcing the qi out around your hands, ready for manipulation and qi training,

long breaths along with noises are for controlling and bringing up Qi, short breaths with that "KAAAI" shout to them are for explosie power, you shouldent be doing that untill many many tears of training with Qi energy and conditioning, people do it alot with breaking shit, like coconuts boards, tiles, sticks etc, breaking chopsticks on temples, fighting, (but no sportsmen can do this in ring bouts due to protective gear and gloves etc stoping the flow and real explosive snaps and power flow)


peace,

here is a Qi exercise that people can do even sitting down right now on there chair, it lookes simular to standard Qi ball method, mixed with "touch earth touch heaven" method sometimes known as "touch ground touch sky"



http://www.beatcfs.info/chi5.htm





if you click about on this site and scroll down, it has some pictures showing you how to do basic Qi exercise and methods for beginners, and a basic understanding of it,

http://kenkuroki.net/qipro/qi01.html

peace.

Thanks for all that info....
My main interest at present is in the exhaling, [btw I am not a martial artist]

I get the impression that most people when exhaling do so with out any regulation in that they exhale in a way that allows the energy to flow in a way that is wasted. Normal breathing that expends energy needlessly. And wonder that if people learn to govern their out-going breath their energy levels would improve.

I have tried for example breathing into a restricted air space so that back pressure stops "a sigh that kills a million butter flies" to use a metaphor.

This is an area of curiosity for me and also necessity as I had to relearn to breath after an illness years ago and am attempting to polish up on it.

Thanks for all that info....
My main interest at present is in the exhaling, [btw I am not a martial artist]

I get the impression that most people when exhaling do so with out any regulation in that they exhale in a way that allows the energy to flow in a way that is wasted. Normal breathing that expends energy needlessly. And wonder that if people learn to govern their out-going breath their energy levels would improve.

I have tried for example breathing into a restricted air space so that back pressure stops "a sigh that kills a million butter flies" to use a metaphor.

This is an area of curiosity for me and also necessity as I had to relearn to breath after an illness years ago and am attempting to polish up on it.

you would make a good martial artist though, your very correct there.
energy is wasted all of the time, with breathing with motion even with pointless emotional ups and downs wich you have to learn to control, you know the worst energy waster and biggest downfall for most fighters, its anger, learn to stay calm move only when needed breath only when needed, and do it all with perfect technique, then you will waste the least amount of energy, some martial art styles (usually very advanced methods/styles) concerntrate on using moves that use the least amount of energy to conserve it during a bout,

when you take a hit you should inhale, when dealing a hit you should exhale,
when you mastered them learn to inhale and exhale simaltaniously, (sounds wierd but it can be done kind of liek a circulation between nose and mouth. and can be used with explosive power striking,

read up on something called Fajing, simular to bruce lee's one in punch, technique (thats where he got it from)

if you want to test your breath contrl, look into qi gogn methods, and i can help on some good ones,

when in the passengers seat of a car (safely) lean your head out of the window and try to breath under wind resistance and G force,

dragon breating techniques, holding your head under water,

hang upside down and hold your breath,

grasp simple Qi gong breathng method (would take less than 20 mins) then breath up and hold, for aslong as you can (concerntrating only on Qi flow, Yi is very important (intention)) then breath down and hold for aslong as you can, and repeat, when you grasp simple qi gong breathing you will know what i mean by breath up and breath down,


a simple rule in qi gong is this, breath through your stomach, not your chest, you have to breath up into the chest then down into the stomach, many people breath up intot he chest then out through there mouth, that is very wastefull, and also dosent build up your Qi reservs in your dantien, as you merely pass the air into your lungs then out again, always breath deep up then down,


peace,

It seems to me it is the regeneration of energy as it is expended [out/in] that deternines the level of fatigue present.
By learning to pace the outflow with inflow thus maintaining continuous optimisations.

just an intuitive observation

are you joking me? any real martial artist wouldent enter a UFC match to begin with, martial arts was developed for self defence, for protecting yourself, staying healthy and protecting your loved ones,

I knew you'd cop out with this! State what a 'real' martial artist would and wouldn't do. Damn, you're young and naive to think you can make that statement!

The reason Kung Fu practictioners don't enter MMA or UFC is because the style is deeply flawed for real fighting. There is NO groundwork! As soon as you are knocked over (and all real fights go to ground at somepoint) you are screwed, you have no tools in your repertoire.

You need to read your history about martial arts too. It's not all warrior monks and spirituality, that's the romanticised version. China and Japan were feudal contries, and in turmoil, wth various Dynasties and Shoguns vying for power. Martial arts were for training better armies, to defeat more enemies, and gain more lands and riches. As times changed, the countries became more stable, and were united, some of the few places that kept the schooling of martial arts alive, were monasteries, living in their own unaffected time warp.

do you understand the difference between a sportsman and a warrior?.

I think you have your ideas backwards!

A warrior actually fights (like in MMA or UFC) whereas a sportsman plays at it (like you guys down at your qwoon)

If you never really fight, all you have is an untested theory. You can hide behind spirituality if you are too scared to face a real opponent, and you will never admit that you are scared. Your belief in your prowess is more important to you than proving your system.

My thoughts on combat are this; I want to shatter your misconceptions as well as your bones.

I think you have your ideas backwards!

A warrior actually fights (like in MMA or UFC) whereas a sportsman plays at it (like you guys down at your qwoon)

If you never really fight, all you have is an untested theory. You can hide behind spirituality if you are too scared to face a real opponent, and you will never admit that you are scared. Your belief in your prowess is more important to you than proving your system.

My thoughts on combat are this; I want to shatter your misconceptions as well as your bones.
That's the western conception of a warrior. A real warrior's job is to protect. Also, a lot of real Kung Fu is ment to kill the opponent quickly, not to do takedowns and play with them.

You do not know ANYTHING about Gong Fu if you are saying there is no groundwork for real fighting. You know that internal arts like Baguazhang were used by Chinese guards because they were so effective at killing right? Tai Chi is called the "Supreme Ultimate Boxing" because Yang Lu Chan never lost any fight, even though he was challenged by China's greatest fighters.

If a real kung fu expert enters the UFC, he will probably kill his opponent, because most techniques are to be used only in emergency situations when killing is neccessary.

If a real kung fu expert enters the UFC, he will probably kill his opponent, because most techniques are to be used only in emergency situations when killing is neccessary.

HORSE SHIT.

You need to check out some footage of Emin Boztepe vs William Cheung. Both Kung Fu exponents, Cheung supposedly versed in 'Dim Mak' and Cheung got his clock cleaned by the supposedly less senior Boztepe.

Kung Fu exponents do not enter UFC because they'd lose.

Oh, and I don't know about Kung Fu? One of my best friends is an instructor, and admits the flaws in the system, so takes groundfighting lessons from a BJJ instructor, who also trains MMA fighters.

Sounds like it's you that doesn't know what they are talking about. Yet another armchair expert!

HORSE SHIT.

You need to check out some footage of Emin Boztepe vs William Cheung. Both Kung Fu exponents, Cheung supposedly versed in 'Dim Mak' and Cheung got his clock cleaned by the supposedly less senior Boztepe.

Kung Fu exponents do not enter UFC because they'd lose.

Oh, and I don't know about Kung Fu? One of my best friends is an instructor, and admits the flaws in the system, so takes groundfighting lessons from a BJJ instructor, who also trains MMA fighters.

Sounds like it's you that doesn't know what they are talking about. Yet another armchair expert!

Cheung and Boztepe are both bad fighters, most martial artists say they are an embarassment to the art.

There's many different styles of Kung Fu. In one style tournaments aren't even held at schools because all of the moves are meant to kill instantly.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Cheung and Boztepe are both bad fighters, most martial artists say they are an embarassment to the art.

Right. I'd love to see you, or that brainiac empty step up to Boztepe and see how long you last! Of course, in your ignorance you missed the point. Cheung is supposedly an expert in 'Dim Mak', but he lost, and Boztepe didn't suffer afterwards. how can you explain that? Oh right, that Cheung, being so honorable and whatnot, chose to be shamed in front of his students, rather than use a potentially deadly technique? Fucking snake oil bullshit!

There's many different styles of Kung Fu. In one style tournaments aren't even held at schools because all of the moves are meant to kill instantly.

meant to kill instantly, but that's the myth you losers have bought into.

You don't know what you're talking about.

I know that there is no groundfighting in Kung Fu, and all you came back with was a tangential reference to Bagua, and Boxing. You don't seem to understand that 'groundwork' means fighting on the ground, ie grappling, you know so little about real fighting.

But, remain unchallenged, and your ideas will remain perfect. Let yourself come into contact with real fightes in the real world, and you'll learn a hard lesson.

I'll make it simple for you. Before a fight, both fighters think they will win. Only one does. It is not belief, therefore that settles a fight, but muscle and bone. Your beliefs mean nothing.

I knew you'd cop out with this! State what a 'real' martial artist would and wouldn't do. Damn, you're young and naive to think you can make that statement!

The reason Kung Fu practictioners don't enter MMA or UFC is because the style is deeply flawed for real fighting. There is NO groundwork! As soon as you are knocked over (and all real fights go to ground at somepoint) you are screwed, you have no tools in your repertoire.

You need to read your history about martial arts too. It's not all warrior monks and spirituality, that's the romanticised version. China and Japan were feudal contries, and in turmoil, wth various Dynasties and Shoguns vying for power. Martial arts were for training better armies, to defeat more enemies, and gain more lands and riches. As times changed, the countries became more stable, and were united, some of the few places that kept the schooling of martial arts alive, were monasteries, living in their own unaffected time warp.



I think you have your ideas backwards!

A warrior actually fights (like in MMA or UFC) whereas a sportsman plays at it (like you guys down at your qwoon)

If you never really fight, all you have is an untested theory. You can hide behind spirituality if you are too scared to face a real opponent, and you will never admit that you are scared. Your belief in your prowess is more important to you than proving your system.

My thoughts on combat are this; I want to shatter your misconceptions as well as your bones.




wow,


ok i just want to point out some things that you dont know,

"kung fu" as you call it, (gong fu) isnt even a martial art, it means skill, hardwork, determination etc. there are many martial arts styles that come from china,

you have been victim to media and hollywood, wushu is the flashy stuff with kicks flips and all of that stuff, they started ding wushu whent he chinese gobernment banned all type of gong fu based martial arts, (wich were designed for real battle) then southern and northern shaolin gong fu, started tot rain in secret as it was banned only wushu could be practised, and soft taiji styles were created to cover up there deadly intent,

did you know tha shaolin gong fu, or what you call kung fu, its basic training mostly is about training for grips throws locks, do you even know what chin na training is? or eagles claw?, or shi suo? or shi sui?. what about ancient shaolin grappling methods? shaolin gong fu is not about flashy jumping about, and flying kicks when it comes down to fighting, thats all just for stretching purpose and warmups, not for actual combat, you know all that silly looking stance holding? thats not for fighting man, thats for strength training and posture methods, when it comes down to fighting in shaolin there is no set pattern of movements, just use what you canw hen you can and effeciently,

shaolin styles are made for actual battle and real warefare, real self defence, mass weapon training, mass conditioning training (the toughest conditioning workouts done to date), dont confuse real shaolin gong fu, with WUSHU, the stuff you see in the movies, and on TV.


and why would a shaolin zen buddhist monk enter UFC matches?, its against there whole way of life,

do you know the rules of shaolin?, you cannot fight for glory you cannot attack or be an aggressor, you may only fight to purge evil and protect the good your family and yourself.



i hope you actually have a firm grasp of things before you outright challenge my position within chinese martial arts, WUSHU directly translates into martial arts by the way, and is for show and for the ring, not for true self defence,


shaolin focuses on throwing locking grappling and trapping, just as much as striking, remember this, and i know you havent even been to a real shaolin temple, but yet you judgle,


peace.

Empty, I never mentioned Wushu! That's a straw man you are trying to build there!

why would a shaolin zen buddhist monk enter UFC matches

I didn't say that, I said Kung Fu practitioner. Again you try and put words in my mouth. But why would they? To prove their system is more than a belief system, maybe?

Just about every martial artist who watches UFC thinks they can do better, that their style will prevail, and nearly all have a cop out. You fear being tested, fine, but don't hide behind the mystic warrior monk bullshit! Historically, there have always been 'beimo', or comparison of skill fights between practictioners of various martial arts, and practictioners who have no fear do fight each other .

i know you havent even been to a real shaolin temple

That's interesting, 'cos the photos on your web site look more like a seedy boxing gym than a temple! I've been to a Jain Buddhist Temple, but not Shaolin. Jain Buddhists seem tidier!

Earlier you mentioned Mas Oyama, who was a Karateka, not Kung Fu practictioner, who was fond of demonstration and competition. If he lived today, he'd have proved his worth in UFC I'm sure, so what was your point in mentioning him?

Empty, I never mentioned Wushu! That's a straw man you are trying to build there!



I didn't say that, I said Kung Fu practitioner. Again you try and put words in my mouth. But why would they? To prove their system is more than a belief system, maybe?

Just about every martial artist who watches UFC thinks they can do better, that their style will prevail, and nearly all have a cop out. You fear being tested, fine, but don't hide behind the mystic warrior monk bullshit! Historically, there have always been 'beimo', or comparison of skill fights between practictioners of various martial arts, and practictioners who have no fear do fight each other .



That's interesting, 'cos the photos on your web site look more like a seedy boxing gym than a temple! I've been to a Jain Buddhist Temple, but not Shaolin. Jain Buddhists seem tidier!

Earlier you mentioned Mas Oyama, who was a Karateka, not Kung Fu practictioner, who was fond of demonstration and competition. If he lived today, he'd have proved his worth in UFC I'm sure, so what was your point in mentioning him?




you say kung fu student, must i say this again, kung fu isnt a martial art style, it means skill and hardwork, shaolin and wushu is what western people think is kung fu, it is called shaolin gong fu, and it is the only "kung fu" system with many branches and sub styles that people train in. but it is all SHAOLIN, so if you are speaking of a kung fu practitioner, you are speaking of shaolin, so its not putting words in your mouth,


a person who really has mastered shaolin, would not want to enter UFC, why would somebody want to hurt someone else for entertainment?. a shaolin master dosent train so he can go and kill people in the ring for western entertainment. they are actually good people you know, not thugs and simple brutes who workout, they have morals, if you would actually take the time to read rules of shaolin, "kung fu" you would see that you are not allowed to fight int he ring, if a true "kung fu" master see his student fighting in UFC, he would not teach him anymore, its serious. respect and honor have you heard of those 2 things?,

and mas oyama, yes he did karate. that is a traditional style, and where do you think karate comes from?. again your are not very well versed in martial arts. yes you guessed it, karate comes from china, yes karate comes from shaolin. really you need to do some more reaserch before trying to step out of your depths and challenge my vast knowledge of chinese martial arts. and im not bragging atall, i have just spent all of my life learning it so i know a thing or 2. and my point in mentioning him was that he uses old traditional training methods, and he has been the only real warrior to ever enter modern recorded tournements, and thats what happens when real warriors enter sporting matches, alot of pain and suffering is caused, thats why real warriors dont enter sports matches, mas oyama was an exeption who was proving a point to the weak modern fighters,


our shaolin temple is nice, you think equipment makes the gym?. aslong as you have space and a good teacher thats all you need to worry about,
and anywas all of our temple isnt even shown on that site, its actually very simple but nice there, and the courtyard is big with everything we need.


karate uses shaolin conditioning thats how mas oyama trained, using shaolin modified shaolin iron methods, and other drills, with basic stance holding and jogging,


as a martial artist you should be less rude, dont you realise that if you are so aggressive you can never proggress, you have to relax and keep an open mind, and under no circumstances do you outright dissrespect shaolin, it is unheard of to do such a thing, no martiala rtist would ever take you seriously if you speak like that, the shaolin are most respected and honored, the monks on countless times actually saved china, the old emporers used to use shaolin as bodygaurds, and basicaly ask the shaolin for help on secret missions, and one emporer was very friendly and pure of heart, so the shaolin gave him help fighting off evil warlords, the emporer tried to runt he lands with peace and harmony, and the monks saw he was good so they helped him, and they saved his family who were kidnapped, also a handfull of shaolin monks fought off a whole ship of japanese pirates, they were outnumbered 7 to 1, and armed with only bo staffs, the shaolin are actualy the most respected fighters in the whole of the far east,

let me ask you something what do you even know about shaolin to begin with?.


peace,

if you are speaking of a kung fu practitioner, you are speaking of shaolin,

No I'm not. you have an anachronistic, romanticsed, and narrow view. Shaolin does not own kung fu!


a person who really has mastered shaolin, would not want to enter UFC,

Because they know they'd get their arse handed to them. Hide behind honour and spirituality all you like, kung Fu alone is not enough to prevail in a real fight.


where do you think karate comes from?. again your are not very well versed in martial arts. yes you guessed it, karate comes from china, yes karate comes from shaolin.

And Kung Fu is based on Yoga, brought into China along with Buddhism. You seem to think that Shaolin is the root, when that is not true.


really you need to do some more reaserch before trying to step out of your depths and challenge my vast knowledge of chinese martial arts.

Vast? You seem narrow minded to me.

and im not bragging atall, i have just spent all of my life learning it so i know a thing or 2. Claiming 'vast' knowledge when you're not even 21 sounds like a brag to me!


thats what happens when real warriors enter sporting matches, alot of pain and suffering is caused, thats why real warriors dont enter sports matches, mas oyama was an exeption who was proving a point to the weak modern fighters,

That is unfounded speculation. Modern fighters are well trained Martial Artists. UFC is an MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) competition. One of my best friends is a Kung Fu instructor, but takes groundfighting lessons from a guy that has fought (and won) in UFC stlye competitoins, and trains professional MMA fighters. He holds advanced Black belts in four styles, and has been studying Martial Arts for over 30 years. Now you claim not to disrespect other styles, but by saying a real martial artist would not compete in UFC you do exactly that! Some people dare to test their skill, some don't. You obviously don't dare despite your 'vast' knowledge!

as a martial artist you should be less rude,

Martial Arts are just a tool to give me an edge in a fight. They do no rule my life. Maybe it's a religion to you, but to me, it's just a way to stay fit, and feel more secure walking the streets at night.

dont you realise that if you are so aggressive you can never proggress,

'Controlled emotion' is the core of harnessing your power. You have to have emotion. Suppressing it gets you nowhere.

the monks on countless times actually saved china, the old emporers used to use shaolin as bodygaurds, and basicaly ask the shaolin for help on secret missions

Yep, used as an army, for less than honorable deeds sometimes, romanticsed afterwards by the victors.

No I'm not. you have an anachronistic, romanticsed, and narrow view. Shaolin does not own kung fu!




Because they know they'd get their arse handed to them. Hide behind honour and spirituality all you like, kung Fu alone is not enough to prevail in a real fight.




And Kung Fu is based on Yoga, brought into China along with Buddhism. You seem to think that Shaolin is the root, when that is not true.




Vast? You seem narrow minded to me.

Claiming 'vast' knowledge when you're not even 21 sounds like a brag to me!




That is unfounded speculation. Modern fighters are well trained Martial Artists. UFC is an MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) competition. One of my best friends is a Kung Fu instructor, but takes groundfighting lessons from a guy that has fought (and won) in UFC stlye competitoins, and trains professional MMA fighters. He holds advanced Black belts in four styles, and has been studying Martial Arts for over 30 years. Now you claim not to disrespect other styles, but by saying a real martial artist would not compete in UFC you do exactly that! Some people dare to test their skill, some don't. You obviously don't dare despite your 'vast' knowledge!



Martial Arts are just a tool to give me an edge in a fight. They do no rule my life. Maybe it's a religion to you, but to me, it's just a way to stay fit, and feel more secure walking the streets at night.



'Controlled emotion' is the core of harnessing your power. You have to have emotion. Suppressing it gets you nowhere.



Yep, used as an army, for less than honorable deeds sometimes, romanticsed afterwards by the victors.



you do not seem to listen to what i am saying, kung fu is not a martial arts style,

it means hardword and skill!, and again with remarks like that, "because they will get there asses handed to them, does it not register in your brain that some people with great skill do not wish to hurt others for sport?,


and by saying kung fu is based on yoga, is saying kung fu is shaolin, because shaolin was based on an indian monk teaching in china who did yoga, why do you seem to be going on all of my posts, saying things, i prove them to be wrong, then you come back raising a whole other bunch of points, and everytime i prove you wrong about something, you move on and ignore the previus errors, and you are quite hostile, and i do not enjoy debating with you,


you call me a child, yet i have manners and am not rude like you,



peace.

You have proved nothing, that's why! you do not address my points at all, but rather re-state your position! Instead of quoting my entire reply, please address the points I made and provide counter points, if you have any. I would be particlarly interested in your opinion of my friends ground fighting instructor, and whether you think that fighting in one UFC style bout negates 30 years of martial arts training and four black belts rendering him no longer a 'real' martial artist!

Karate is as close to kung fu as kung fu is to yoga, but yoga is the root. Things evolve, but you seem to think that shaolin somehow is more important than any other descendant or precursor! You are narrow mindedly fixated on shaolin!

does it not register in your brain that some people with great skill do not wish to hurt others for sport?

Is it some, or all? A few post ago you were making declarations about what 'real' martial artists would and wouldn't do. I showed you that 'real' martial artists DO compete, Do fight in MMA competitions, and are very well skilled individuals. Now you are backpeddling and say 'some'. Well, NONE of those 'some' are Kung Fu, because Kung Fu on it's own is no use in a real fight.

And kung fu is definitely a martial arts style;

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/kung%20fu

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Kung%20Fu

read it and weep, junior! Seems that while you 'shaolin' types might hide yoursef away and think it is more than that, the definition has evolved too, and to the world, it means martial arts style, and no more.

You are youmg, naive, and pig headed. You think you are polite, but your self aggrandisement, and narrow minded fixation of one style is an insult to people with wider experience, who hold different views on what martial arts are for.

No I'm not. you have an anachronistic, romanticsed, and narrow view. Shaolin does not own kung fu!




Because they know they'd get their arse handed to them. Hide behind honour and spirituality all you like, kung Fu alone is not enough to prevail in a real fight.




And Kung Fu is based on Yoga, brought into China along with Buddhism. You seem to think that Shaolin is the root, when that is not true.




Vast? You seem narrow minded to me.

Claiming 'vast' knowledge when you're not even 21 sounds like a brag to me!




That is unfounded speculation. Modern fighters are well trained Martial Artists. UFC is an MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) competition. One of my best friends is a Kung Fu instructor, but takes groundfighting lessons from a guy that has fought (and won) in UFC stlye competitoins, and trains professional MMA fighters. He holds advanced Black belts in four styles, and has been studying Martial Arts for over 30 years. Now you claim not to disrespect other styles, but by saying a real martial artist would not compete in UFC you do exactly that! Some people dare to test their skill, some don't. You obviously don't dare despite your 'vast' knowledge!



Martial Arts are just a tool to give me an edge in a fight. They do no rule my life. Maybe it's a religion to you, but to me, it's just a way to stay fit, and feel more secure walking the streets at night.



'Controlled emotion' is the core of harnessing your power. You have to have emotion. Suppressing it gets you nowhere.



Yep, used as an army, for less than honorable deeds sometimes, romanticsed afterwards by the victors.




1, i do not have a narrow view atall, i study in more than shaolin, but shaolin is the core of my training, i train every single day, i teach self defence on personal basis, and am a freelance personal trainer, i get to spend most of my time training, i have trained with many fighters, i give police officers advice on hand to hand weapons defence, i train in muay thai, systema, boxing, judo, jeet kun do, wing chun, northern and southern chinese styles, ninpo, mongolian wrestling, i practise 3 different styles of taiji, baguazhang and freestyle cross training with my sparring/training partners who are my close friends,
"kung fu" means skill/work hard, it is not a martial arts style,


2, why do you say people who dont want to fight in UFC are basicaly scared they "will get there asses handed to them" and hide behind honour and spirituality?. why cant people just learn to defend themselves train for there entire life from the age of 4 untill they die (like 70% of shaolin monks do) and not want to fight people for sport and entertainment?. and only fight to defend themselves, what is your problem to understand people are like this somewhere in the world,


3, yes my friend i am very aware of the roots of all chinese systems of combat, i practise yoga alot my wife is very good at yoga, nearly as good as i am, and i have practised stance holding, stretching, meditation and yoga methods since an early age, i am aware of the indian roots, when have i said otherwise?. i did not say the roots didnt come from there initially.


4, claiming vast knowledge of something that has been studied for 17 years or a little more isnt a crime is it?, you can learn alot in 17 years if you practise every single day. also every martiala rtist is still a student and always will be, theres always room for improvement, even a grandmaster has alot to learn.

the grasshopper dosent transform into a butterfly, it just becmes a big grasshopper.


5, i know cage fighters, boxers, muay thai fighters, they are good fighters, especially good in the ring, but with no rules on the streets its a different story, if you only train with gloves on, and with rules in the ring and the gym, and dont cross train, then you will not be fully prepared for real battle without rules, i am not dissrespecting anybody here, you seem to think i am directly insulting any particular fighter, i am just comparing power levels, and situations, ring/street, i have first hand experience to compare, ring fighters like boxers and wrestlers. who only train with rules in a ring, to shaolin monks who train every day of there lives from the age of 4-5, and they train for real combat, no rules, tough cnditioning, nothing like what UFC fighters do atall, i can compare because i witness both, styles wich use realistic street fighting methods to train and condition are more suitable for the streets, than just boxing on its own, or just grappling, you cant grapple a guy with 2 knives held in reverse grip, its best to cross train in manys tyles, and never get stuck into 1 frame of training, just like thinking with one frame of mind is bad.


6, well then thats what you gain from martial arts and i dont dissrespect that, if yo want to feel safe and sta healthy thats very good, that is why most people use martial arts and is common,


7, i did not ever say anything about suppressing your emotions, when did i state this?. you have to have an outlet to vent your emotions, keeping them bottled up inside is never a good thing, are you trying to argue about something we agree on now aswell? i do not think sciforums is an effective way of venting emotions towards people trying to give posative feedback and knowledge, constructive debating calmly is the key, not insulting and name calling that you have resorted to alot of times,


8, a rule of shaolin is never to hold glory in victory, this means you enjoy the slaughter of life, and is not tolerated in shaolin,





can you answer this question please my friend,

Q, why did you say im a shaolin fool, and wing chun is the best for real self defence, when wing chun comes from shaolin, and shaolin has many man more branches to its tree, wing chun is just one of them, why did you say this?

also


gong fu is not a martial arts style, sorry i have to correct you, gong fu translates as "hard work" "skill" "dedicatin", kung fu is a bastardisation sir, you get many forms of "skill" (gong fu) crane style gong fu, snake style gong fu, tiger style gong fu, dragon style gong fu, animal styles of shaolin, or wing chun gong fu, lohan gong fu, southern gong fu, northern gong fu, it is used like this,

"i practice white crane gong fu" , skill/hardwork in white crane methods, are you familiar with the 3 treasures of chinese fighting?.




peace,

Again you evade the points I made, and completely fail to answer the direct question I put to you about 'real' martial artists who enter UFC.

Onto your questions, I already answered, but it seems I have to spell it out. Shaolin was just a step in a long evolution. It has too many facets, too many styles, and just too much baggage. It might be Ok if you can hide away in a monastery and do nothing else all day, but most people work a a job, and have less time to study. Wing Chun is far better for real people, but even then, flawed for real/cage fighting as there is no groundwork (a point you have chosen to dodge).

The last real fight I had I took the guy to ground, and choked him out. He was a big lad, and tried punching, but unless you can land a perfect blow, first time, every time, a grappler will always get to you. So, therefore, someone who ONLY trains in Kung Fu will lose. This is why we don't see Kung Fu as the dominant style in UFC. It's not about honour, spirituality, just pragmatism. People who want to be able to fight, learn an effective style. It's OK if people don't want to fight, but you have discounted those that do as not being 'real' martial artists.

Wing Chun translates as 'beautiful springtime'. I don't think literal translations matter a chuff, btw! Kung Fu is a martial art, period. Kung Fu and Buddhism might be a lifestyle, but Kung Fu, is just Kung Fu. You are convolving separate issues.

havent i already pointed this out to you, UFC is a sport. are you saying it isnt? it is not real battle situation, do you know what US and UK military systems are based on? and why do you think there based on that?, because its for real battle, im not saying UFC and cage fighters are weak, but they are fighting for money glory and entertainment, wich is not the true way of a warrior, i didnt say they were weak martial artists, they are not true warriors, i know many cage fighters who were former streetfighters, boxers, grapplers etc, and they admit it is just a sport to test regulated feats of strength, but it isnt real combat it has rules, if they can admit it why cant you.


and i do not know why you keep saying "kung fu" people cant grapple and dont grapple, seriously that is utterly false, shaolin gong fu has many many grappling methods, shaolin gong fu students are required to train in grappling every day of there lives, how can you tell me that they cannot grapple, what is chin na? what is eagles claw? what is shi suo for? what is shi sui for? what is locking trapping and throwing training for then? if not grappling?.


and you are not one to speak about questions that arent answered, you have failed to answer my questions havent you, and just asking defensive questions in retaliation,


why did you say im a shaolin fool and wing chun is better?, and why did you insult me and my martial arts training? when wing chun comes from shaolin,

peace

UFC is an MMA, that's 'Mixed Martial Arts' competition. It is where Martial Artists test their skills against each other. You still can't see that despite your assertions about your beloved shaolin leading to other styles, it is not superior when tested! You dodge, weave, and ignore this single issue. You falsely assert that no shaolin trained fighter would enter UFC, as if this is the reason we don't see shaolin represented, rather than the truth, that shaolin would fail when tested, so combatabtslearn ore effective, more rounded styles.

Do I know what US and UK systems are based on? Krav Maga and Jiu Jitsu!

Why do I say Wing Chun is better? I alrady explained that, in my earlier post. Shaolin has too many forms. It is no use in a fight, if you have not yet learned the technique you need. Wing Chun is simpler and more combat oriented.

What is Chin Na? A compromised style. It requires being too close to your opponent, and a trained grappler will already be dominating you before your Chin Na techniques can be utilised.

What is Chin Na? Flawed techniques.

Why don't you see Kung Fu practitioners in MMA? If Qi Gong is so superlative, MMA/UFC should be dominated by Kung Fu styles, but it is hardly represented, let alone dominant!


MMA is a money making sport. It is gladiator combat where people agree to publicly take a beating for a paycheck.

Why would someone who was philosophical or a believer in eastern philosophies engage in that? Also, letting yourself get hit is a bad idea. Letting yourself get hit over and over and over is going to shorten your lifespan and lead to poor health.

MMA is mainly dominated by brute force and cheating. People who weigh 220 will sign up for a lower weight class. When it comes time to fight, they sweat out the water weight to make the lower weight. They are really fighting weaker people. People they outweight by 20 pounds maybe.

this is actually a very good question, also complicated,

there are many forms of martial arts wich use breathig differently, there are various noises made for various reasons, firstly all inhailing should be done through the nose, to regulate breathing you have to develop this kind of slow but steady breath control that takes awhile to get used to,
peace,

That is interesting. You ever hang around Asian people? Most of the real ones from Asia breath thru their mouth. At my doctor, there is a big sign in big letters for retards that says "COVER YOUR MOUTH WHEN YOU COUGH". Seems like the usual warning right?

It is a special warning for Asian people. My doctor has lots of Asian clients. They breath thru their mouth. When they cough or whatever, it is not a cough like a regular person. It is a cough with the full pressure of their breathing behind it from mouth breathing. They spray stuff everywhere when they do it. Really gross.

But from a chinese perspective, it is health. If you cover your mouth when you cough, you are inhibiting the air from leaving your lungs. It is like backpressure. That can cause you health problems. Asians think that, if you need to cough, you need to let it out uninhibitied. Open your mouth wide and let it spray out.

I knew you'd cop out with this! State what a 'real' martial artist would and wouldn't do. Damn, you're young and naive to think you can make that statement!

The reason Kung Fu practictioners don't enter MMA or UFC is because the style is deeply flawed for real fighting. There is NO groundwork! .

This shows how you think. And it shows you do not understand the philosophy behind martial arts.

Martial arts is supposed to be about pride and dignity and honor. Where is the pride in rolling around in the dirt struggling with a man? Where is the skill? It is like two animals rolling in the dirt. A highly refined kung fu man rolling in the dirt? I just don't see it.

Also, MMA has associated with gay jokes. Watching two adult men roll around on the ground looks like gay porno. There is no dignity to it.

What is Chin Na? A compromised style. It requires being too close to your opponent, and a trained grappler will already be dominating you before your Chin Na techniques can be utilised.

What is Chin Na? Flawed techniques.

I think you have a flawed view of fighting. I don't think you would get close to a real kung fu person. I think that person you choked out was probably just some guy that didn't know much about fighting.

It is impossible to talk about kung fu really because you are talking about kung fu people you know or have been exposed to. There are many kung fu people who are probably much better than you. They would never get close to a person like you because you are close minded, aggressive and combative.

To an elevated person, your attitude is like having someone throw rocks at them.

Why would someone who was philosophical or a believer in eastern philosophies engage in that?

Why not? You seem to think that philosophy and fighting are incompatible. That is erroneous. Take Musashi Miyamoto. Accomplished duellist, and author of 'The Five Rings'. I prefer 'do' to 'ryu', same as Musashi.

MMA is mainly dominated by brute force and cheating. People who weigh 220 will sign up for a lower weight class. When it comes time to fight, they sweat out the water weight to make the lower weight. They are really fighting weaker people. People they outweight by 20 pounds maybe.

Jesus, that counts as cheating in your book? I used to do the same before Judo competitons.

I think you have a flawed view of fighting. I don't think you would get close to a real kung fu person.

Kung Fu is close quarter combat! The whole ethos of chi sau is contact and proximity, using touch and impulse as the primary motivator, not sight! There are no rangey punches, or high kicks to keep an aggressor at bay.


I think that person you choked out was probably just some guy that didn't know much about fighting.

He thought he was a boxer. But there is a saying 'never box a boxer'.

It is impossible to talk about kung fu really because you are talking about kung fu people you know or have been exposed to. There are many kung fu people who are probably much better than you.

As I only have the odd lesson, you are very correct. I have, however, sparred with Kung Fu practioners and not been dominated. Practitioners struggle when taken to ground. Empty mentions Chin Na for locks and throws, but there is no real groundfighting in Kung Fu.

They would never get close to a person like you because you are close minded, aggressive and combative.

Thanks for the character assassination! But you are wrong. If you had read the whole thread, you'd know that one of my closest friends is a Kung Fu instructor. There is nothing wrong with being aggressive or combative, either!

To an elevated person, your attitude is like having someone throw rocks at them.

Oh listen to you! leave out the ad-homs and weak put downs and maybe I won't direct some of that aggression towards you!

Why not? You seem to think that philosophy and fighting are incompatible. That is erroneous. Take Musashi Miyamoto. Accomplished duellist, and author of 'The Five Rings'. I prefer 'do' to 'ryu', same as Musashi.



Jesus, that counts as cheating in your book? I used to do the same before Judo competitons.


you do not understand, you are to negative to comprehend anything you are rude, he did not say philosophy and fighting are not compatible, chinese martiala rts is philosophy itself, you did not even understand what he just said to you, the old eastern philosophys is not to fight for entertainment and sport, it is for honour and self defence, he was in no way saying philosophy and martial arts are not compateble,


peace.

Kung Fu is close quarter combat! The whole ethos of chi sau is contact and proximity, using touch and impulse as the primary motivator, not sight! There are no rangey punches, or high kicks to keep an aggressor at bay.




He thought he was a boxer. But there is a saying 'never box a boxer'.



As I only have the odd lesson, you are very correct. I have, however, sparred with Kung Fu practioners and not been dominated. Practitioners struggle when taken to ground. Empty mentions Chin Na for locks and throws, but there is no real groundfighting in Kung Fu.



Thanks for the character assassination! But you are wrong. If you had read the whole thread, you'd know that one of my closest friends is a Kung Fu instructor. There is nothing wrong with being aggressive or combative, either!



Oh listen to you! leave out the ad-homs and weak put downs and maybe I won't direct some of that aggression towards you!



no kung fu is not close quater fighting, how many times must i repeat myself, it is beccoming slightly annoying to me maybe, "gong fu" means SKILL hardwork, effort and dedications, it is not a fighting style, it means you train hard, and chinese styles are supposed to be dedicated, you can say i train in eagles claw gong fu, meaning i train in eagle claw style of fighting and i train hard and am dedicated,


stop using the bastardisation please,

gwai lo

peace,

and 'Wing Chun' means 'beautiful springtime'. Literal translations, therefore, such as you insist on them, are pointless.

Kung Fu is a close quarter fighting style. You may delude yourself it's a way of life. You may delude yourself that you are part of some romantic warrior monk heritage. All that remains is that you are deluded.

I say if you train to fight, and never do, you have wasted your life.

Dood. You are right up there with some of the most obnoxiously clueless people I have ever met.

You like trouble. You don't know what you are talking about in most of your posts I have read. I don't know why EmptyForce bothers with you. You are hopeless. He should leave you be and move on to someone with more promise.

Dood. You are right up there with some of the most obnoxiously clueless people I have ever met.

You like trouble. You don't know what you are talking about in most of your posts I have read. I don't know why EmptyForce bothers with you. You are hopeless. He should leave you be and move on to someone with more promise.

And you add no fact nor content to the thread. You do not counter my points, or try and falsify anything I've said.

Well, that's your failling.

I said Kung Fu is a close quarter fighting style. It is. It uses short punches along the centre line of the body, and low kicks.

Compare these to the roundhouse punches, and high kicks from other martial arts.

Kung Fu has a technique called 'Chi Sau' or 'sticking hands' where you deliberately remain in contact with your opponent.

Most other martial arts use 'maai', or striking distance, standing off from your opponent.

That, by comparison, makes Kung Fu a close quarters fighting style.

Now, if you are capable of understanding these points, do so, digest them,and come back with a worthwhile comment. If you do not understand, please respond with another ad hom.

I said Kung Fu is a close quarter fighting style. It is. It uses short punches along the centre line of the body, and low kicks.

Although this may sound crazy to you, i dispute that.

I started training in Lau Gar Kung Fu, and nowadays it is merely a colourful sport.

Let me elaborate.When practicing knife defence tactics, the master stated that although she had been training her entire life, she would not be able to disarm a guy with a knife in this way, i asked why we were practicing it if it was useless, and she replied, "to get your next belt". Thats when i thought screw this.

I now practice pit boxing/grappling, which is purely designed to take out your opponant in any way possible, this is what i call a 'close quarter fighting style'.

I know Kung Fu was originally intended as such, but the simple fact of modern day practice goes against it.

:m:

I now practice pit boxing/grappling, which is purely designed to take out your opponant in any way possible, this is what i call a 'close quarter fighting style'.


Just because you train in another close quarter fighting style, doesn't mean Kung Fu isn't one also!

I trained in Judo and Jiu Jitsu, which are close quarter fighting styles too.

In Kung Fu, there is lots of contact, hence close quarter. Empty denies Kung Fu is even a martial arts style, because he attends 'Shaolin' temple to learn it. He convolves a romanticised lifestyle, Buddhism and a fighting style, and
comes out with more than the sum of the parts.

and 'Wing Chun' means 'beautiful springtime'. Literal translations, therefore, such as you insist on them, are pointless.

Kung Fu is a close quarter fighting style. You may delude yourself it's a way of life. You may delude yourself that you are part of some romantic warrior monk heritage. All that remains is that you are deluded.

I say if you train to fight, and never do, you have wasted your life.



i have been training in many fighting styles for over 17 years, i do not train for no reason, my area is rough i have to fight on the street all of the time, you seriously have some kind of problem here dont you man. what am i deluded by exactly could you point this out?. i think your just bieng a little defensive personally because i said something that made you seem wrong and you didnt like it,

what are you actually debating here? that you dont like "gong fu" ? well ok then what now are you just going to dissrespect everyone who trains in a style that you dont like. and you do realise that the style dosent make the man right? and the man makes the style?, you will find 99% of all fighting styles are good, if you put in effort and train hard, i dont see why you have to be so hostile about martial arts anyway. you act as if i devote my life to shaolin gong fu and its the only style i train in, when i have trained in other fighting styles including pure grappling and boxing for just as long, its best to be a well rounded fighter, not someone who sticks to one style and claims it is "the best" that is quite foolish to think one style beats anouther,




i dont really see this debate going anywhere you seem to just be set in your ways, you cannot teach an old dog new tricks i suppose. especially not an angry little dog either,



peace.

I don't believe you get into street fights and "have to fight on the street all of the time"

That's just another of your childish fantasies. The more you talk, the more I am convinced you are younger than you claim to be.

You are naive, gullible, and have the language skills of a child.

You also seem incapable of following a thread. I said 'kung fu is a close quarter fighting style' and gave reasons to support my argument.

You did not falsify my reasons. If you think this debate is going nowhere, it's because you don't debate, all you do is post your opinion, and use a 17 year training history as an appeal to authority. That is not good enough. Falsify what I have stated, or concede defeat.

That, by comparison, makes Kung Fu a close quarters fighting style.

Now, if you are capable of understanding these points, do so, digest them,and come back with a worthwhile comment. If you do not understand, please respond with another ad hom.

It is your terminology that is the problem. Kung fu is generic for martial arts. Saying kung fu is close quarters is wrong. Wing chun is one style of kung fu that is a close quarters style. Choy Li Fut is a long style. They fight with their arms fully extended to deliver blows. I think they kind of windmill them.

You are naive, gullible, and have the language skills of a child.

See? This is where you jump to assumptions that get you in trouble. So what if he has the language skills of a child? What if he was a foreign person with english as a second language? What kind of writing skills did Muhammed Ali or Mike Tyson have?

Just to wake you up to the world around you, I speak childishly on purpose on occasion. I do it to take advantage of people like you. People who think a mastery of the english language is an indication of skill level in other areas. I will speak like a kid until the other person is frothing at the mouth.

Then I switch back to adult speak and start posting the links that prove I knew what I was talking about all the time.

People like you are brainwashed. You are brainwashed to believe in authority. If it does not come from someone in a uniform or someone with a certificate on the wall, people like you refuse to believe it. This keeps you ignorant.

It is possible to learn about life from anyone. No matter how ugly or how dirty they are, or how well they do or do not write or speak. All you have to do is have an open mind to listen to them and the patience to dig thru the smokescreen to the nuggets of gold within.

"Choy Li Fut"? A Modern schizm with a bullshit mythos? Some sweeping movements, but this one departure from Kung Fu doesn't define all of Kung Fu. You've found once exception, well done, it changes little.

I asked if English was not Emtpy's first language, and he didn't say it wasn't, btw He'd just an adult with the language skills of a child. If you choose to talk like a child, that's your choice. At least you have the ability to spell. Empty doesn't. So, I reckon he's a bit thick, and that's why he truly believes in all the bullshit he's been taught.

I found only one example? That was the one off the top of my head. I think lohan shaolin is literally called "long fist style".

Why do you have to be right? You obviosly are not very familiar with kung fu. There is no reason to be upset. We are all ignorant in one area or another. Why not allow people who know the stuff you do not to share it with you?

This is not, for me, a manly chest beating or penis measuring contest. It is about information exchange.

this is going nowhere and insulting me will not make your point of view seem more right,


im out of this convo ignorance is bliss,


peace.

probably a good idea ;)