What do you think? Hoax or Real?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/05/15/world/15bosnia.xlarge1.jpg

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/15/world/europe/15bosnia.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Pyramid in Bosnia -- Huge Hoax or Colossal Find?
Sean Markey
for National Geographic News

May 12, 2006

He's been called a Balkan Indiana Jones. Others label him a dreamer, or worse, a pyramid buff with loony ideas.

Despite his critics (and he has many) Semir "Sam" Osmanagic believes he's discovered the find of a lifetime—a series of ancient pyramids in the heart of Bosnia.

If the Bosnian-American businessman is correct, the structures would be the first known step pyramids in Europe.

"I am 100 percent sure. There is no other option," the Houston, Texas-based Osmanagic said.

At the heart of Osmanagic's belief is Visocica hill, an undeniably pyramid-shaped mound near the town of Visoko, 18 miles (30 kilometers) northwest of Sarajevo (see a Bosnia and Herzegovina map).

Visoko, the former medieval capital of Bosnia, cradles a rich history, including Roman and Illyrian ruins and countless Neolithic artifacts.

"Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun"

Last month Osmanagic and his team began sinking a series of wells into the 700-foot-tall (213-meter-tall) hill, which Osmanagic renamed the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun.

The kick-off was observed by a clutch of onlookers, journalists, and—in what may be a first for such endeavors—contestants from the Miss Bosnia beauty pageant.

So far a mixed crew of volunteers and hired help has unearthed a network of tunnels along with what Osmanagic describes as ancient mortar and sandstone blocks shaped by human hands.

(See a related news photo: "Pyramid Discovered in Bosnia (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0420_060420_pyramid.html)?").

He says the pyramid is at least 2,500 years old and may even date to the last ice age, which ended about 10,000 years ago.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/images/060421_pyramid.jpg

Another Picture:
http://www.blather.net/zeitgeist/archives/image3611.jpg

Link: http://www.blather.net/zeitgeist/archives/2006/04/giant_ancient_pyramid_found_in_1.html

Rudimentary pyramids have also been dicovered in Greece and Ethiopia. I think it just goes to show that ancients cultures were probably far more widely dispersed than conventional history would have us believe.

There's no evidence that Osmanagic has found anything more than a large hill that has some medieval useage. Real archaeologists are pissed because the guy is probably doing far more damage than good. Osmanagic is the same guy that claimed the Maya were descendants of "Atlanteans" who are, in turn, descendants of space aliens from Plieades.

If the guy told me it was raining and I was getting wet, I'd still check to see if what he said was accurate before I believed it.

The aspect ratio is a bit flat compared to Egyptian pyramids, and there would have been a lot of work to do covering it with earth if it was a ziggurat! Looking at the hills in the background, which share the same features, this hill is not much out of the ordinary, really. One side looks flatter than it is in reality, because it is in shadow.

So, no, I don't think it's a pyramid, just from those photos.

There's no evidence that Osmanagic has found anything more than a large hill that has some medieval useage.

Exactly, medieval usage i.e. the construction of a large pyramid!...why not?

Real archaeologists are pissed because the guy is probably doing far more damage than good.

Care to elaborate on that? What, in your definition, is a 'real' archaeologist?

Osmanagic is the same guy that claimed the Maya were descendants of "Atlanteans" who are, in turn, descendants of space aliens from Plieades.

And you have evidential proof to refute that claim have you?

If the guy told me it was raining and I was getting wet, I'd still check to see if what he said was accurate before I believed it.

And if your own mother said that you were, infact, born without a penis you'd still have check to see if what she said was accurate before you believed it. :eek:

It is possible that they might of found a "Pyramid" however this is not the egyptian type. I've seen a program related to how older civilisation dealt with their kings/queens, for instance in the UK near me there are alot of mound burials involving Viking kings and the burying of their worldly goods including the upturned ships.

There was some mound in Turkey that had been artificially capped with shale(loose rocks), it was believed that a king had been entombed within the cap of the mountain in a cave and that the sheal was placed over the cap to stop looting. Afterall digging in shale causes it to avalanche on the digger.

More pictures:

Pyramid picture from postcard in 1950
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/2709/piram23jf.jpg

http://davidicke.com/news/data/upimages/PyramidBosnia.jpg

http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/osmanagic/

fear that Osmanagic's excavations will damage real sites (the hill he calls the "Pyramid of the Sun" is said to have medieval, Roman, and Illyrian remains on it). In one of the few critical accounts of the Bosnian pyramid story, which appeared in the Art Newspaper, the University of Sarejevo's Enver Imamovic, a former director of the National Museum in Sarjevo, is quoted as saying, "This is the equivalent of letting me, an archaeologist, perform surgery in hospitals."

Osmanagic is a fraud.

Osmanagic is a fraud.

Does that mean the pyramid looking hill that is in the pictures are not there?

Does that mean the pyramid looking hill that is in the pictures are not there?
the burden of proof is on the person who says they are pyramids
so far the only proof i seen is pictures of hills

There are lots of "pyramid-looking" hills. Few of them are pyramids.

http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/osmanagic/



Osmanagic is a fraud.


A fraud, derived from afraid the fraud was once a man of power. Those that had fear of unknown and discounted all that was not tangible marked the word. A fraud is the accuser who fears the unknown.

Your nonsensical posts notwithstanding, Osmanagic is still a demonstrable fraud. Moreover, he is damaging real artifacts in his pursuit for fame and glory. Antiquarianism has long since been a defeated mindset and those that follow the paths of the Osmanagics of the world are mere criminals.

There is real artifacts that the fraudster found? That does not make sense...

There are lots of "pyramid-looking" hills.

Please back up your claim with pictures. Mr. Anti-Bosnian

Few of them are pyramids.

This could be one of them.

Scientists begin dig at Bosnian ‘pyramid’History-laden hill contains human-made tunnels, researchers say

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060414/060414_bonsinia_hmed_4p.hmedium.jpg

By Aida Cerkez-Robinson
http://media.msnbc.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Sources/sourceAP.gif
Updated: 6:28 p.m. ET April 14, 2006

VISOKO, Bosnia-Herzegovina - Archaeologists began digging Friday for what they hope is an ancient pyramid hidden beneath a mysterious Bosnian hill that has long been the subject of legend.

The Bosnian archaeologist leading the work says the 2,120-foot (650-meter) mound rising above the small town of Visoko resembles pyramid sites in Latin America that he has studied. It would be the first pyramid ever discovered in Europe.

Initial research on the hill, known as Visocica, found that it has perfectly shaped, 45-degree slopes pointing toward the cardinal points and a flat top. Under layers of dirt, workers discovered a paved entrance plateau, entrances to tunnels and large stone blocks that might be part of a pyramid's outer surface.

Satellite photographs and thermal imaging revealed two other, smaller pyramid-shaped hills in the Visoko Valley.

Friday's excavations began with a team of rescue workers from a nearby coal mine being sent into a tunnel believed to be part of an underground network connecting the three hills.

They were followed by archaeologists, geologists and other experts who emerged from the tunnel later to declare that it was certainly human-made.

"This is definitely not a natural formation," said geologist Nadja Nukic.

Weeks of work ahead
The teams descended about 260 meters (yards) into the tunnel but found the rest of the way blocked by a cave-in. The tunnel is thought to be 2.4 miles (3.8 kilometers) long, and the team found two intersections with other tunnels leading off to the left and right.

Other teams began digging 10 shafts at several spots to see if they will run into stone blocks below the slopes of the hill.

The work will continue for about six months at the site just outside Visoko, about 20 miles (30 kilometers) northwest of the capital, Sarajevo. Two experts from Egypt are due to join the team in mid-May.

"We expect the first raw results in about three weeks," said Semir Osmanagic, the Bosnian archaeologist leading the project.

Millennia-old legends
Locals have held many legends about the hill, but Osmanagic, who spent the last 15 years studying the pyramids of Latin America, was the first to suggest that Visocica could be hiding a pyramid.

Anthropologists say the Visoko Valley already offers ample evidence of organized human settlements dating back 7,000 years. The town was Bosnia's capital during the Middle Ages, and German archaeologists working the valley recently found 24,000 Neolithic artifacts just 3 feet (1 meter) below ground.

Please back up your claim with pictures. Mr. Anti-Bosnian

http://www.australianlandscapes.com/The_Photographers/Barry/Pyramid/Pyramid_Hill.jpg
http://mt-2.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Hong_Kong/031230/040101Ma_On_Shan/DSC00029.JPG
http://mt-2.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Hong_Kong/031230/040101Ma_On_Shan/023.jpg
http://www.meta-religion.com/Archaeology/images/pyramid.jpg
http://www.loddon.vic.gov.au/Page/Images/Pyramid-Hill-Caravan-Park.gif
http://www.pyramidhillwines.com/Images/location3.jpg
http://www.pyramidhillwines.com/Images/hillvinestractor.JPG
http://www.tibetinfor.com.cn/tibetzt/zlgy-en/mqh/pic/b-jzt.jpg
http://www.sacredconnection.ndo.co.uk/holyland/images/Schiehallion4.jpg

One of those is the hill at Visoèica, which looks much like all the rest.

The hill at Visoèica is a Roman fortified and somewhat paved hill. Nothing more. There is no evidence to suggest that it is a "pyramid" and much evidence to suggest that Osmanagic the "amateur" archaeologist (there is no such thing as an "amateur" archaeologist -you're either a "pro" or nothing to archaeology) is a fraud based on his past literature (works of fiction guised as fact) and his current irresponsibility with regard to this Roman site that has yet to be properly excavated.

Osmanagic is a fraud and a dangerous one to the science of legitimate archaeology.

Finally, I resent you accusation that I'm "anti-Bosnian." This is entirely uncalled for and intellectually dishonest. I hold resentment for the destruction that the American Osmanagic is doing in Bosnia to a Bosnian cultural site. His actions are irresponsible and so are the mystery-mongers and significance-junkies like yourself who encourage his stupidity by giving him benefit of doubt when he so clearly has not earned it.

Some See a 'Pyramid' to Hone Bosnia's Image. Others See a Big Hill.

By CRAIG S. SMITH
Published: May 15, 2006

New York Times

[...]Archaeologists and historians inside and outside Bosnia are appalled, insisting it is simply a peculiarly symmetrical bit of geology. But pyramid fever is spreading through the country. Largely uncritical television and newspaper reports have made the photogenic Mr. Osmanagic a national celebrity, and volunteers are flocking to Visoko hoping to help uncover the Pyramid of the Sun, a prehistoric edifice that will redeem the country by giving it a glorious and important past. "After all the blood and mass graves, this gives people something positive to talk about," said Zlatko Bekbic, who came from the northeastern town of Tuzla to see the supposed pyramid.

[...]

But not everyone is elated. "This isn't a pyramid, it's a bad circus," said Zilka Kujundzic-Vejzagic, a specialist in prehistoric archaeology at the National Museum in Sarajevo. She is one of 21 experts who published an open letter in Bosnian newspapers in April denouncing Mr. Osmanagic's project as bad science and manipulative sociology.

She scoffs at his suggestion that the pyramid is "probably older than the last ice age," saying no humans were even building simple huts then. There is no evidence, she said, that there was ever a civilization in the region organized enough to build such a massive monument. "If there had been a people who could make something like that, we would have found artifacts around it," she said.

Archaeologists in Bosnia have found little more than flint tools from the end of the last ice age and only simple Neolithic settlements that appeared thousands of years after that. The country's most substantial ancient monument is a modest stone city in southern Bosnia built during the third century B.C. by the Illyrians. The Egyptians are believed to have built their pyramids around 3,000 B.C., but even the biggest of them is dwarfed by Mr. Osmanagic's hill, which is 700 feet high.

Ms. Kujundzic-Vejzagic and her peers say that the symmetrical hill that Mr. Osmanagic has seized on was formed when an ancient lake bed buckled from tectonic movement of the earth's crust millions of years ago. As Africa pushed into Europe, geologists say, the flat lake bed broke into shards that were lifted up like pieces of ice at the colliding edge of an ice floe, creating flat-sided hills.

Found at: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/15/world/europe/15bosnia.html?_r=5&pagewanted=1&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=login

There is no evidence that the site is anything more than a Roman-fortified hill.

But there is no shortage of significance-junkies and mystery-mongers willing to buy into the fantastic claims that dumbasses like Osmanagic make just for his 15 min of fame.

Finally, I resent you accusation that I'm "anti-Bosnian." This is entirely uncalled for and intellectually dishonest. I hold resentment for the destruction that the American Osmanagic is doing in Bosnia to a Bosnian cultural site. His actions are irresponsible and so are the mystery-mongers and significance-junkies like yourself who encourage his stupidity by giving him benefit of doubt when he so clearly has not earned it.

Should not you wait a few weeks to find out if there is any thing that shows up from the digging before blasting Bosnia and the Hill. Is not it kinda dumb to tell a person that he will not be allowed to prove because there should be nothing there?

It is like guilty and will not be allowed to prove one's innocence. If that is not a severe bias against an entire group of Bosnians - then what is?

Those aliens sure get around, huh.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060414/060414_bonsinia_hmed_4p.hmedium.jpg

my honest opinion about this picture?
it looks to me like someone is preparing to make a truckload of money
it doesn't look like any 'dig' that i am familiar with

honestly people does this look like a cash cow in the making?

Tourism is a multi-billion dollar industry. What is wrong with that? People even go to see Alcatraz Prison....

Again, I'm not "blasting Bosnia or the hill," I'm blasting the dumbass that calls himself an "archaeologist." Osmanagic is decidedly not an archaeologist, nor does he appear to have the skills required to properly conduct archaeology as evidenced by his lack of regard for proper provenience and excavation techniques.

The real archaeology of the area is a Roman fortification within the hill and not the hill itself. Osmanagic has produced no evidence for his wild claims nor is there any reason to believe that he is anything but a fraud.

Moreover, your continued intellectual dishonesty that keeps insisting that I have something against "Bosnia" is annoying and offensive.

Pyramid picture from postcard in 1950

don't you think that in the 50 or so years since these photos that someone would have found out this was for real?
grave robbers would have that place all scoped out and there would have been a detectable entrance.
tunnels in hills is nothing new. france has them. the japanese built tunnels all through the mountain on iwo jima. the phillipennes has miles of tunnels.