...and it is somehow unpopular!!! :eek:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/11/news/putin.php

One politician's opinion, Putin's opinion, and you somehow think it's the truth?? Have you ever known a politician to speak the truth?

By the way, how would you know the "truth", anyway?? ...did you learn that in school yesterday or something? :D

Baron Max

Have you ever known a politician to speak the truth?
Baron Max
Bush, when he said Iraq had WMD.

Oh wait a minute.....

Bush, when he said Iraq had WMD. Oh wait a minute.....

Iraq did have WMD's ....and they actually used some on the Kurds.

Baron Max

Iraq did have WMD's ....and they actually used some on the Kurds.

Baron Max

In 2003?

Have you ever known a politician to speak the truth?
Are you saying Bush told the truth? Isn't he a politician?

I have to correct myself, Putin did lie at one point. He said of Bush:

""He is an honest person. I know that he is open to dialogue - and he is open to persuasion," Putin said."

...and it is somehow unpopular!!! :eek:



I was also surprised by the reactions.

And gates comes across as a total asshole. Probably typical considering what Putin was trying to say. Apparently the US is also trying to put the same attitude on Russia. That's a mistake.

McCain instead of trying to deffend the position of US (OK, that was undeffendable by a PC argument) swashed back at Putin. He was correct in what he said, but it didn't make untrue what Putin said...

Everybody wants to rule the world....

I don't. It's not worth it. :D

Everybody wants to rule the world....
I just want to control everyones thoughts and actions. Is that so wrong........?

I dont trust Putin one inch, I will certainly believe no of his bull propaganda anymore than I would Bush`s

I don't. It's not worth it. :D

Well,you are not everybody. You are nobody... :)

I dont trust Putin one inch, I will certainly believe no of his bull propaganda anymore than I would Bush`s

You sound like Baron. Why is it so hard to decide a statement's truthfullness?

I dont trust Putin one inch, I will certainly believe no of his bull propaganda anymore than I would Bush`s

You don't have to trust him. The point is more that he is the first world leader who has send a clear message now to the USA. You have been pushing the boundaries and crossing them.

Not that anyone in the US will listen, but it might cost them.

...and it is somehow unpopular!!! :eek:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/11/news/putin.php

your introverted statement, which really states that putin tells lies since he is unpopular is irrelevant. As people dont go for truth, but for whats favorable. And putin does tell the truth.

I dont trust Putin one inch, I will certainly believe no of his bull propaganda anymore than I would Bush`s

he speaks the truth and never lied. I trust him.

Putin is cool. He is an utter bastard of course, but he is intelligent. And has style. Wouldn't want my life in his hands of course. He is cool from a safe distance.

Putin is cool. He is an utter bastard of course, but he is intelligent. And has style. Wouldn't want my life in his hands of course. He is cool from a safe distance.

believe me he is cool in short distance. the media is waging a war against putin and that is why they all bust about his totalitarian regime and such...which has nothing to do with reality. the guy forgave the chechen mfkz so that they have peace in Chechnya!!!! I mean I am a tolerable guy...but chechens...they should have been nuked many times already...

Not that anyone in the US will listen, but it might cost them.

there wasnt a war for 40 years...there wont ever be a war. its sabre-rattling.

and i applaud him for it. i love putin's political model.
he is probably my favorite contemporary politician.

I'm not talking about a war with russia of course. That is going to cost russia. But russia does have an influence in world diplomacy and in small things such as arms trade.

And they have oil.

and the USA can't attack them because they have small and big nukes.

I'll bet some US diplomates were troubled suddenly by their ulcer.

i saw it as putin drawing a line in the sand, letting the usa know that he wouldnt tolerate them disturbing the russian interests.

Would you call Iran a russian interest?

Would you call Iran a russian interest?

why not, they have been buying the outdated crap from us for years.

Would you call Iran a russian interest?

absolutely.

You sound like Baron. Why is it so hard to decide a statement's truthfullness?

I know the characters of both Bush and Putin, I wouldn't trust either of them an inch.

You don't have to trust him. The point is more that he is the first world leader who has send a clear message now to the USA. You have been pushing the boundaries and crossing them.

Not that anyone in the US will listen, but it might cost them.

Um... no he is not, many other countries have told they US they are crossing the line many times. I think the wheel tapper President of Venezuela called Bush Satan not to long ago. Putin is merely trying to assert his dominance in Eastern Europe by calling out NATO.

There are many western pro-democracy sponsors in that Eastern European block and this is seriously ticking of Putin. He wants the area pro-Moscow so that the gas will flow.

There are many western pro-democracy sponsors in that Eastern European block and this is seriously ticking of Putin. He wants the area pro-Moscow so that the gas will flow.

precisely.

interestingly, he hasnt invaded any of them for their independant way of thinking, yet.

It's kind of ironic. I have been reading the reactions of the Dutch public to Putin's statements. A majority says something like: finally someone who dares to tell the truth. This is often followed by an attack on the Dutch/European politicians who are accused of being spineless. Many also see it as a lost opportunity. To untie the ties with the US and send a clear message. Together you are strong.

And then there is a minority who is afraid of Russia for various reasons. Mostly because they can turn off the gas supply to the Netherlands.

It seems that once again the European politicians are not representing the people in this matter.

And then there is a minority who is afraid of Russia for various reasons. Mostly because they can turn off the gas supply to the Netherlands.

It seems that once again the European politicians are not representing the people in this matter.

its funny....the EU refuses to stand united....and thats why putin could get away with turning the gas off.

if all of europe stood up to him over their right to think and say what they wish, putin would be crapping his pants.

Is his real (internal) power based on oil though?

Its all about Gazprom and the gas.... the spice (backspace backspace backspace) gas must flow.

Think of the russians as house Harkonin :)

I am pleased there is some sanity left in this world.
Go Putin, say it as it is.

Its all about Gazprom and the gas.... the spice (backspace backspace backspace) gas must flow.

Think of the russians as house Harkonin :)

amusing way to say it, but yes.
absolutely true.

I need a translation.

amusing way to say it, but yes.
absolutely true.

haha, a good comparison! :D

Explanation?

No thanks. :p

OK, just thought I'd offer.

My comment comes from the Book/Movie series Dune.

For Shai-Hulud!

Just thought I would point out to folks that Putin is in bed with Mugabe here in Africa. So Putin has no credibility with me.... its Russian and Iranian money keeping the Zimbabwe dictatorship afloat.

well, it's either russian or US money. Same difference.

well, it's either russian or US money. Same difference.

Yup, they all seem to have Africa`s "best interests" at heart.

Is his real (internal) power based on oil though?

of course not. He is a great ruler, he ended the Chechen conflict, increased wages to good conditions...improved life in so many other ways, he made cities worth living in. I really want to go back to Russia...but I got to finish the university here in USA...:( o well..

Excellent article.


Does Putin Not Have a Point?
By Patrick J. Buchanan
Tuesday, February 13, 2007

"A soft answer turneth away wrath," teaches Proverbs 1:15.
Our new secretary of defense, Roberts Gates, seems familiar with the verse. For his handling of Saturday's wintry blast from Vladimir Putin at the Munich security conference was masterful.
"As an old Cold Warrior, one of yesterday's speeches almost filled me with nostalgia for a less complex time," said Gates, adding, "Almost." A former director of the CIA, Gates went on to identify with Putin: "I have, like your second speaker yesterday ... a career in the spy business. And I guess old spies have a habit of blunt speaking.
"However, I have been to re-education camp, spending the last four-and-a-half years as a university president and dealing with faculty. And as more than a few university presidents have learned in recent years, when it comes to faculty it is either 'be nice' or 'be gone.'"
Gates added he would be going to Moscow to talk with the old KGB hand, who will be retiring as Russia's president around the time President Bush goes home to Crawford. Excellent.
For one of the historic blunders of this administration has been to antagonize and alienate Russia, the winning of whose friendship was a signal achievement of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. And one of the foreign policy imperatives of this nation is for statesmanship to repair the damage.
What did we do to antagonize Russia?
When the Cold War ended, we seized upon our "unipolar moment" as the lone superpower to seek geopolitical advantage at Russia's expense.
Though the Red Army had picked up and gone home from Eastern Europe voluntarily, and Moscow felt it had an understanding we would not move NATO eastward, we exploited our moment. Not only did we bring Poland into NATO, we brought in Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, and virtually the whole Warsaw Pact, planting NATO right on Mother Russia's front porch. Now, there is a scheme afoot to bring in Ukraine and Georgia in the Caucasus, the birthplace of Stalin.
Second, America backed a pipeline to deliver Caspian Sea oil from Azerbaijan through Georgia to Turkey, to bypass Russia.
Third, though Putin gave us a green light to use bases in the old Soviet republics for the liberation of Afghanistan, we now seem hell-bent on making those bases in Central Asia permanent.
Fourth, though Bush sold missile defense as directed at rogue states like North Korea, we now learn we are going to put anti-missile systems into Eastern Europe. And against whom are they directed?
Fifth, through the National Endowment for Democracy, its GOP and Democratic auxiliaries, and tax-exempt think tanks, foundations and "human rights" institutes such as Freedom House, headed by ex-CIA director James Woolsey, we have been fomenting regime change in Eastern Europe, the former Soviet republics and Russia herself.
U.S.-backed revolutions have succeeded in Serbia, Ukraine and Georgia, but failed in Belarus. Moscow has now legislated restrictions on the foreign agencies that it sees, not without justification, as subversive of pro-Moscow regimes.
Sixth, America conducted 78 days of bombing of Serbia for the crime of fighting to hold on to her rebellious province, Kosovo, and for refusing to grant NATO marching rights through her territory to take over that province. Mother Russia has always had a maternal interest in the Orthodox states of the Balkans.
These are Putin's grievances. Does he not have a small point?
Joe Lieberman denounced Putin's "Cold War rhetoric." But have we not been taking what cannot unfairly be labeled Cold War actions?
How would we react if China today brought Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela into a military alliance, convinced Mexico to sell oil to Beijing and bypass the United States, and began meddling in the affairs of Central America and Caribbean countries to effect the electoral defeat of regimes friendly to the United States? How would we react to a Russian move to put anti-missile missiles on Greenland?
Gates says we have been through one Cold War and do not want another. But it is not Moscow moving a military alliance right up to our borders or building bases and planting anti-missile systems in our front and back yards.
Why are we doing this? This country is not going to go to war with Russia over Estonia. With our Army "breaking" from two insurgencies, how would we fight? By bombing Moscow and St. Petersburg?
Just as we deluded ourselves into believing this war would be a "cakewalk," that democracy would break out across the Middle East, that we would be beloved in Baghdad, so America today has undertaken commitments, dating to the Cold War and since, we do not remotely have the resources or will to fulfill. We are living in a world of self-delusion.
Somewhere in this presidential campaign, someone has to bring us back to earth. The halcyon days of American Empire are over.


Pat Buchanan is a founding editor of The American Conservative Magazine

That, especially from a conservative, is interesting. Thanks Genji. I don't know whether he's misrepresenting what the U$ has done in Eastern Europe but I do know that Joe Liberman is full of bullshit with the "who me?" rhetoric.

Eastern Europe (at least the Baltics) wants the protection against Russia and they had the right to apply for the membership in NATO.
We've been invaded by Russia too many times.

That, especially from a conservative, is interesting. Thanks Genji. I don't know whether he's misrepresenting what the U$ has done in Eastern Europe but I do know that Joe Liberman is full of bullshit with the "who me?" rhetoric.That's what is astonishing. This country has moved right of conservatism & libertarianism into a disaster globally. I hate to think of the repercissions we will face because of the wannabe warriors in Washington driving our country into an abyss. When Buchanan starts making sense it's time to Wake Up!

When Buchanan starts making sense it's time to Wake Up!
amen.

Sort of reminds me when a Chinese ambassador (?) yelled at the United States to 'shut up' during a meeting addressing the stockpiling of weaponry.

Eastern Europe (at least the Baltics) wants the protection against Russia and they had the right to apply for the membership in NATO.
We've been invaded by Russia too many times.

because Baltic states do not recognize the powerful nation before them. Baltic states do not work in coalition with Russia and thus they have become the enemies.

That's what is astonishing. This country has moved right of conservatism & libertarianism into a disaster globally. I hate to think of the repercissions we will face because of the wannabe warriors in Washington driving our country into an abyss. When Buchanan starts making sense it's time to Wake Up!
Buchanan is a farsical twit.

And this country only appears to have moved too far right to those who have moved too far left.

When the left is eating its own for not being left enough it's time to break out the smelling salts and hope for the best.

Buchanan is a farsical twit.

And this country only appears to have moved too far right to those who have moved too far left.

When the left is eating its own for not being left enough it's time to break out the smelling salts and hope for the best.

So do you support an escalation of the war in Iraq? And its extension to Iran?

Buchanan is a farsical twit.

And this country only appears to have moved too far right to those who have moved too far left.

When the left is eating its own for not being left enough it's time to break out the smelling salts and hope for the best.I post Buchanan articles because he IS a Conservative. The Republicans have completely lost their own Party. If I posted socialist articles I'd get grief for using 'questionable links.' So Conservatives are on your hate list too!

So do you support an escalation of the war in Iraq?
I support finishing the war in Iraq -- on our terms.
And its extension to Iran?
We've been a war with Iran since 1979. We (half of us, anyway) have a persistent memory that will, one day, be the proper motivation at the proper moment in time.

I support finishing the war in Iraq -- on our terms.

The same way the war was started?:rolleyes:


We've been a war with Iran since 1979. We (half of us, anyway) have a persistent memory that will, one day, be the proper motivation at the proper moment in time.

1953, not 1979. More like selective memory.

*** Post Deleted by Forum Administrator ***

The same way the war was started?:rolleyes:



1953, not 1979. More like selective memory.
I know. Isn't that 1st sentence hilarious!! "On Our Terms" with the deep authoratative voice and lowered brow. "Our" terms have failed dumbsh&t! The rebels of Iraq have defeated the mighty Empire. Armchair warriors are loaded with arrogance and BS. He's just a troll. He can't even recognize rightwing conservatism anymore!! G is only here to stir shit. Period. I wonder why he isn't suited up and in Iraq killing Arabs??? Lazy peice of shi%t.:p

Dude. I see that even your own formidably crafted ignore list fails in its intended ability to contain my rhetorical imperative.

Very well.

Nice puppy.Another dodge from Mr Troll.

The same way the war was started?:rolleyes:
Beauty is such a subjective commodity, wouldn't you say?

1953, not 1979. More like selective memory.
1979 is being no more selective than 1953, is it?

Beauty is such a subjective commodity, wouldn't you say?


1979 is being no more selective than 1953, is it?

Strange how those who dish it out cry mommy when they imagine they are on the receiving end.:rolleyes:

Another dodge from Mr Troll.
You'd be more endearing if you learned to pee on the provided newspaper.

You'd be more endearing if you learned to pee on the provided newspaper.ANOTHER dodge!:p

Strange how those who dish it out cry mommy if they have to take it.:rolleyes:
What's strange is you've adopted the Genji model of engagement.

And you attended University.

University isn't what it used to be since I left the payroll.

ANOTHER dodge!:p
Another episode of denial.

Ever consider renting yourself out as a research subject?

Speaking Truth to poot'n.

What's strange is you've adopted the Genji model of engagement.

And you attended University.

University isn't what it used to be since I left the payroll.If you don't have anything to add to the discussion on Putin feel free to exit. :rolleyes: Now I'm OFF! To the timeclock! And to Happy Hour! Have a good one! Mr G, get drunk and go driving.

Another episode of denial.

Ever consider renting yourself out as a research subject?Nothing to say about Putin? Russia today? The Conservative view on the thread subject? Anything at all? Why are you here? Nothing to do? No friends? Meek in real life? Loser.

Till Wednesday Night!

What's strange is you've adopted the Genji model of engagement.

And you attended University.

University isn't what it used to be since I left the payroll.

No what is strange is that you are supporting this:

http://kurtnimmo.com/images/bushiran.jpg

Atheism isn't what it used to be.

If you don't have anything to add to the discussion on Putin feel free to exit. Now I'm OFF! To the timeclock! And to Happy Hour! Have a good one! Mr G, get drunk and go driving.
Run. Run fast. Run away. Save your sense of superiority from imminent destruction.

It must be saved for future generations of Genjis so that they may live and multiply.

Atheism isn't what it used to be.
Neither is dancing.

Neither is dancing.

There are other pastimes.

http://thedailynews.com/cartoons/c-Invade_Next.gif

There are other pastimes.
http://www.minddisorders.com/images/gemd_02_img0086.jpg
Some more compelling than others.

Some more compelling than others.

Especially when facts are so different from propaganda.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/pilger/pilger47.html

Unlike Israel and the United States, Iran has abided by the rules of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, of which it was an original signatory and has allowed routine inspections under its legal obligations – until gratuitous, punitive measures were added in 2003, at the behest of Washington. No report by the International Atomic Energy Agency has ever cited Iran for diverting its civilian nuclear program to military use. The IAEA has said that for most of the past three years its inspectors have been able to "go anywhere and see anything." They inspected the nuclear installations at Isfahan and Natanz on 10 and 12 January and will return on 2 to 6 February. The head of the IAEA, Mohamed El-Baradei says that an attack on Iran will have "catastrophic consequences" and only encourage the regime to become a nuclear power.

Unlike its two nemeses, the US and Israel, Iran has attacked no other countries. It last went to war in 1980 when invaded by Saddam Hussein, who was backed and equipped by the US, which supplied chemical and biological weapons produced at a factory in Maryland. Unlike Israel, the world’s fifth military power with thermonuclear weapons aimed at Middle-East targets, an unmatched record of defying UN resolutions and the enforcer of the world’s longest illegal occupation, Iran has a history of obeying international law and occupies no territory other than its own.

Sigh.

I'm not really into kicking the comatose.

Sigh.

I'm not really into kicking the comatose.

Its an alternate reality when attackers are victims and self-defense a punishable offense.

Its an alternate reality when attackers are victims and self-defense a punishable offense.
"Read the directions and directly you will be directed in the right direction." - Doornob

every single one of your posts has been off topic, Mr.G

Maybe roman can give him an infraction for being off topical.

I'm not sure that I trust that Putin, my local newspaper put him at 16 on the Evil Dictators list. If he were closer to 3 or 4, then maybe...but 16? That's kind or going out on a limb.

The man likes to do Judo. How bad can he be!

I wish my local newspaper had an Evil Dictators List. A list of local Nazis would be useful too.

SamCDKey:

Do you not support the Anti-Nuclear Proliferation Treaty?

every single one of your posts has been off topic, Mr.G

Why do you think the moron is on my Ignore list? :cool:

God bless the ignore feature, you can say whatever you want BEHIND my back! :)

SamCDKey:

Do you not support the Anti-Nuclear Proliferation Treaty?

Its right behind Complete Nuclear Disarmament, on my list.

every single one of your posts has been off topic, Mr.G
No. They have, each in their fashion, dealt with the topical notion of "Truth" from a perspective unexplored by others in the immediate neighborhood.

Ever wonder why modern science never has found the Universal Law of Truth?

Didn't think so.

Thanks for the multi-colored, Z-fold, glossy pamphlet pleading the case for the Universal Law of Dogmatic Subjectivity. ;)

Why do you think the moron is on my Ignore list? :cool:
Um, ... ignorance becomes you? Morons represent unfair competition in the market place of ideas?
God bless the ignore feature, you can say whatever you want BEHIND my back! :)
Dude, you're trailing a toilet paper tail.

People are laughing, and you're humming to yourself way too loud to hear my offer to help you mitigate your strutting poo pas.

SamCDKey:

Then why do you not support measures to stop Iran from pursuing nuclear weapons?

Certainly, if you are anti-nuke, you do not want Iran to have them, yes?