I have heard they exist, and wonder if anyone has ever been to one.
what was it like what was it called etc... ?
you dont need to name names if you like for possible legal liabillity issues.

I know that there are schools that supposedly train in this type of thing. I found one on the web once, but I don't remember why. Many people who practice Wicca or Paganism have schools and I know they train in the areas of, how do I say, mind expansion? Developing the inner eye, that sort of thing. There are a lot os psychic training courses you can take.

thanks for that, i use to have a vast array of links of all manner of sites of staggering variations but lost them all when i lost my computer a few years back.
i did wonder how different they are to what could be termed life coachs and basic theories of developing the inner self on personal development issues a si have heard they tend to be linked, thus wonder if they might be completely seperate in the nature of what they teach. there seems tobe an ever growing number of peopel who take it very seriousely, as least as and if not more soo or equal to how the majority of the worlds population consider religion in general.

Traditionaly there has been great service to humanity through various religous organisations by teaching reading and writing through to crop management and various other needs of basic society like animal breeding and seed stock preservation, as far as the human body and basic medicine and even some extreemly advanced medicine.

Some of the more well known things would be Yoga and herbal use for health purposses.

as Society moves away from traditional religous structure that use to be the basic mechanism for the greedy and power hungry to control populations and garner land and other material wealth it did cross my mind that there in turn with evolution must come groups and organisations that try to purafy their mission toward the betterment of the whole devoid of these aspects of power and control dysfunction, thus do psychic schools and schools of wicca and paganism (as you refer to) pick up the batton on this always present cutting edge of human evolution ?

thanks for that, i use to have a vast array of links of all manner of sites of staggering variations but lost them all when i lost my computer a few years back.
i did wonder how different they are to what could be termed life coachs and basic theories of developing the inner self on personal development issues a si have heard they tend to be linked, thus wonder if they might be completely seperate in the nature of what they teach. there seems tobe an ever growing number of peopel who take it very seriousely, as least as and if not more soo or equal to how the majority of the worlds population consider religion in general.

Traditionaly there has been great service to humanity through various religous organisations by teaching reading and writing through to crop management and various other needs of basic society like animal breeding and seed stock preservation, as far as the human body and basic medicine and even some extreemly advanced medicine.

Some of the more well known things would be Yoga and herbal use for health purposses.

as Society moves away from traditional religous structure that use to be the basic mechanism for the greedy and power hungry to control populations and garner land and other material wealth it did cross my mind that there in turn with evolution must come groups and organisations that try to purafy their mission toward the betterment of the whole devoid of these aspects of power and control dysfunction, thus do psychic schools and schools of wicca and paganism (as you refer to) pick up the batton on this always present cutting edge of human evolution ?

I believe so. Since the 60's and 70's there has been what most people call, that New Age movement, though many find the term "New Age" offensive. It offered a way for like-minded people to connect and find faith and healing outside the normal areas of religion. Still, many don't realize that a lot of what is considered New Age is actually very old and that many Pagan religions practiced today are revivals of what was practiced long ago. I do not know about Wicca. There isn't really a place in history specifically for Wiccan's, from what I know, it is thought of as the Old Religion, but there is no documented proof, though this religion came "out-of-the-closet" in the 1950's.

I think the religious "norm" of our society leaves much to be desired, thus leaving people stranded; no faith, no gods or goddesses, no place where they can come together to meet others like themselves because these other areas of practice, like you said, are not widely publicized or are unknown. Most people can no longer be controlled by some fear of Hell and since you can't burn people at the stake or toture them legally anymore, people are no longer afraid to step outside the box. Thus, like you said, leaving others like Pagan's, Wiccan's, and other believers of such, to "pick up the baton", take these people in, and run with it. I believe that the condemming (spelling?) nature of many of todays "normal" religions, just doesn't fit some people's world views anymore. Though I cannot speak for everyone, obviously over half the population still believes in these religions.

I think schools for psychic training and others that offer these kinds of things, are not widely known for fear of hate and crazy people with pitchforks and stones! :rolleyes: But they are there. You just have to know where to look and know the right people. Many Wiccan's and Pagan's train in this sort of thing, but you have to be, sworn in, for lack of a better term, and you must promise that all things taught or learned be kept secret. That is how these people's beliefs and traditions have survived for so many years. They certainly didn't get there by waving there knowledge all over the internet and posting people in air ports with flyers. I used to work for a Pagan couple that was very deeply involved and devoted and, well,...I'll never tell...:D

I think schools for psychic training and others that offer these kinds of things, are not widely known for fear of hate and crazy people with pitchforks and stones!

Indeed, not only do they come with pitch forks stones and burning torches but with TV cameras, and small children to use like a mace.
i gues you would have noticed very well how these nutters use children mearly as a weapon against others like a mad scientist may use a rat and peice of litmus paper.

There isn't really a place in history specifically for Wiccan's, from what I know, it is thought of as the Old Religion, but there is no documented proof, though this religion came "out-of-the-closet" in the 1950's.

while doing some research i found indications that suggest wicca was mearly a variant of paganism that was the un purafied version by a certain amount of divergence in reaction to opresion and persecution.
wicca going undercover and paganism being attuned to naturist activities to try and miss direct those screaming mobs with pitch forks and stones.

note you only have to be a women in some countrys to be privy to a good pitch forking or stoning.
and thats only for having sex, or showing a part of your body or talking to a man.

it is interesting to see the heavy matriarchy in wicca and paganism and lightly compare that to the heavy patriarchy in the last 2 thousand years of main stream religion.
i loved that little saying by the guy in jurrasic park about nature over coming things, can't recal it properly but people tend to be the same.
If not we would be extinct by now.
i modafied the statement to my own as
"Nature over comes nature, herself".
meaning as soon as you find something that is in sense a wall of scientific principal and cast in stone factualised in concrete...
there is its complete parody and almost mocking opposite scientific principal.

fish with anti freeze for blood
sea shrimp and crabs living in near boiling water which is highly acid on sea floor vents.
certain plants and animals that only exist on one food and or nutrient combination etc...

where would we be without these people...
running around wearing busines suits swinging clubs with a monobrow :/

"We have attempted to conquer nature as we have attempted to conquer sin"

I take this to meaning, what is the point? Many Wiccans and Pagans worship the earth and believe that the earth is the living embodiment of the Goddess. To me, this makes much more sense then worshipping a dead man on a cross and a God that is above and outside the world we live in.

"The image of "God" as outside of nature has given us a rationale for our own destruction of the natural order and justified plunder of the Earth's resources"

I think that man himself has always attempted to conquer woman. If the earth, is indeed a woman, then destroy it. If the woman is worshipped then we must burn her and hide the evidence that she was once powerful and equal. Strange, strange, strange. At least science itself acknowledges that without the female there wouldn't be a male and vice versa. We need both people! So many religions and even societies do not give women any credit because they are "weaker". Hence child-birth being the original sin. What a load of bull. Child birth is natural, women were made this way, no God decided to punish women because she ate a fucking apple. *sigh*...I am getting off track. For a very long time, women have been objects of ridicule, hate, and fear. Not to say that all men treat women this way, no that is not fair to say. I just think that the Patriarchy of todays religion leave something to be desired for women especially.

To me, this makes much more sense then worshipping a dead man on a cross and a God that is above and outside the world we live in.

It does? How so? What's the difference between worshipping dead men and unseen spectres than worshipping a chunk of inanimate space rock?

God decided to punish women because she ate a fucking apple. *sigh*...I am getting off track. For a very long time, women have been objects of ridicule, hate, and fear. Not to say that all men treat women this way, no that is not fair to say. I just think that the Patriarchy of todays religion leave something to be desired for women especially.

hehe spoken like a women who was walked a few miles.
you know this reminds me of a certain disorder that is bread into people as children.
specificaly the boys.
i wont get into it on the boards but feel free to pm me to chat about it.
too many seriousely disturbed people to have an effective discusion without having ability to moderate the thread.
i will only be online for another week maybe 2 then im off no idea when ill be back.

It does? How so? What's the difference between worshipping dead men and unseen spectres than worshipping a chunk of inanimate space rock?

Well, why not worship the earth, something you can touch and feel and that you know is real and has power? The power of nature is undeniable. It can give life, but also destroy and cause death just as easily. Worshipping the earth isn't saying you worship something invisible, it's there, right in front of you and it has answers. You don't need proof that the earth exists. You are in it, of it, and with it. Saying a God created it and that he resides beyond it, is something else, but to celebrate the power and the wonder of earth doesn't seem silly to me. It gave us life and continues to do so. People, scientists, have been fascinated with and have devoted their lives to discovering it and exploring and explaining it. I am not saying it has to make sense to you...that's why I specifically said "it makes sense to ME".

hehe spoken like a women who was walked a few miles.
you know this reminds me of a certain disorder that is bread into people as children.
specificaly the boys.
i wont get into it on the boards but feel free to pm me to chat about it.
too many seriousely disturbed people to have an effective discusion without having ability to moderate the thread.
i will only be online for another week maybe 2 then im off no idea when ill be back.

I think you have the PM feature off. I can't PM you for some reason so you should PM me when you get the chance. Love to chat anytime.:)

Well, why not worship the earth, something you can touch and feel and that you know is real and has power? The power of nature is undeniable. It can give life, but also destroy and cause death just as easily. Worshipping the earth isn't saying you worship something invisible, it's there, right in front of you and it has answers. You don't need proof that the earth exists. You are in it, of it, and with it. Saying a God created it and that he resides beyond it, is something else, but to celebrate the power and the wonder of earth doesn't seem silly to me. It gave us life and continues to do so. People, scientists, have been fascinated with and have devoted their lives to discovering it and exploring and explaining it. I am not saying it has to make sense to you...that's why I specifically said "it makes sense to ME".

My point is why worship anything, Earth, rocks, dead men, spectres, whatever? Nature giving me life, that's great, but are we not a part of it? Don't you think its kind of like worshipping yourself? What is man's penchant for needing to worship something? Just accept that you are here through an incredible sequence of circumstances and live your life without bowing to something you either can or can't see.

jessiej920 <> sorry my err have corrected it

PsychoticEpisode
your point sounds very valid.
however not any more valid than anyone elses point.
your question is a question of the nature of the indevidual.
you surely can't expect an answer from one person to stand for the reasoning of others ?
except for those with very little brain function (nurtured ignorence) who follow like sheep and are religous fundermentallists brain washed from childhood.

do you know much about psychology ?
your reasoning is very A typical of a homosexual man going through the first or second stage of self reasoning after they have come out from the closet as such.
because the bulk of society is soo vastly backwards with hidden predjudices going on behind closed doors the actual level of extreem hate is not entirely realised by many until they walk a few miles in that world.
The decision to abandon all higher beleife systems is one basic way for many to try and cope, although it is a slippery path that most often leads to a blackened heart and cold personality matched with hyperphrenic schitzophrenia.
the only people who are realy capable of abandoning all beleife systems are the upper echelons of the scientific world where they hold no bias and do not say what is and what is not,
mearly accept they do not know.
WHICH is a stark contrast between some raving religo nutter chanting death to all women wearing mini skirts and homosexuals.


My /\/e)(T QuesTioN is what do you know of th ego and self development ?
and if you do know some things about the ego then what part does that play in self development... ?

PsychoticEpisode

do you know much about psychology ?
your reasoning is very A typical of a homosexual man going through the first or second stage of self reasoning after they have come out from the closet as such.


I nearly fell off my chair reading that one. I can assure you I am not a homosexual. Do I sound like a priest? By the way is this an attempt at using psychology on me?

I don't think acceptance of there being nothing to worship is the sole domain of the scientific commnity. I'm no scientist nor am I schizophrenic. Are you trying to say that people who go around endorsing a no belief system are usually diagnosed as schizo? When were these books your getting these ideas from printed?

I nearly fell off my chair reading that one. I can assure you I am not a homosexual. Do I sound like a priest? By the way is this an attempt at using psychology on me?

I don't think acceptance of there being nothing to worship is the sole domain of the scientific commnity. I'm no scientist nor am I schizophrenic. Are you trying to say that people who go around endorsing a no belief system are usually diagnosed as schizo? When were these books your getting these ideas from printed?

your response illistrates to me there is no point in me trying to discus this matter with you.
Give yourself another 10 years and it might be a different story

your response illistrates to me there is no point in me trying to discus this matter with you.
Give yourself another 10 years and it might be a different story

Ditto.... besides this is a thread about psychic schools.

I knew there was a good chance you were going to react the way you did, I've been to school. I learned that on my first day. It's all about the odds and no one will chastise you for being wrong as long as you are right some of the time, the more the merrier. Being psychic is not an exact science.

Psychology is very important when used to predetermine outcomes. This is why I tried to be careful after you insinuated I was an out-of-the-closet gay. The odds were I was not and although you were wrong with that prediction you would have been right to expect a retaliatory statement from me saying I was not....a typical normal hetero reaction. See what I'm getting at. My guard went up, not knowing if you were who you say you are. You also intimated that I might be a psychologist, scientist or schizophrenic. The odds are I was not schizo and there was a chance I was either of the options. These predictions were too risky with a high chance of them being wrong. Remember there is nothing wrong with a psychic who errs. Cayce and Nostrodamus are only known for some things they sort of got right, but that's good enough for a successful career as a psychic.

Here's something. I was in the MGM program at my school. There were five of us "gifted" kids. They took five average kids from the other classes and set us up, one at a time, through the Zener card test. We each did three rounds. The MGM students scored significantly higher than the average students throughout the test. Does this indicate that the MGM students were prone to psychic abilities, or that we better understood the laws of probability?

I'd say probability.

If after every 'guess' the outcome was known, then this would improve your odds, just like a blackjack playing card counter.

If you didn't know the outcome until all 25 cards were viewed by the experimenter how can you make yourself look psychic? At minimum, if you said the same symbol for each card then you would be at least 20&#37; correct.

Can anybody be psychic without some known factors? Would you call a criminal profiler psychic? Let's face it, those guys are pretty good. When you listen to the news and somebody is murdered in an ethnic area of town, isn't easier to predict a member of that group as the pepetrator? I think it only takes one known factor to influence a psychic prediction, the more factors there are the easier it gets.

This is why I tried to be careful after you insinuated I was an out-of-the-closet gay. The odds were I was not and although you were wrong with that prediction you would have been right to expect a retaliatory statement from me saying I was not....a typical normal hetero reaction. See what I'm getting at.

look your quote is pink you must be gay.

you have interpretted my post to be one where the message between the lines is more important than what is actualy written.
that is your error although maybe not with the nature of a great deal of online communaties.

i do not bother with making predictions of people or for people on messageboards because it is far too dodgey, the amount of nasty bent weirdo freaks who are just out to spread hate is far too common to bother with.


i was simply attemtping to illistrate a concept of patern in mental function, it is effectively an equation i have illistrated for you, it holds no value to the type of person you are sexualy at all, i just used the most obviouse most common situation that comes to mind in a stereo typical manner in which you migh tbe able to observe it and or have come into contact wth it.

it is also a stage during teenage years and cross linked to puberty transition but its all rather complex to get into the finer points.
as i cant be bothered typing such a huge complex post that i would need to edit a few times to ensure it was understandable, and i only jumnped on for a few minutes now prior to heading out the door.

if i was to make an assumtion of you i would assume you were in nature formaly trained and tend toward your profesional ethics in consideration while in the messageboards or have a leaning that way,
either way you should think a little more before reacting to what you perceive as baiting.
although i only bait for possative explanations not negative attacks.

homosexual brains function different to hetro sexual brains, so with varous other types of brains...

biggotry is a single language
i have other things i should mention but im pushed for time.

main point
im not having a dig at you and do not care if your homo bi tri quad poly or any other type of sexual orientation (within the [bassic] laws of western countrys).

My point is why worship anything, Earth, rocks, dead men, spectres, whatever? Nature giving me life, that's great, but are we not a part of it? Don't you think its kind of like worshipping yourself? What is man's penchant for needing to worship something? Just accept that you are here through an incredible sequence of circumstances and live your life without bowing to something you either can or can't see.

In a way yes. But it makes more sense to me to "worship" the earth and yes, yourself :) , because no one can point the finger and say you don't exist. Besides, isn't giving thanks to gifts received the natural order of things? Do we not celebrate the birth of a child, thank someone for a gift or their kindness, or gather with others to celebrate the happiness life brings? Worship might be the wrong word for the point I was trying to make, let me re-state: it makes more sense to me, to celebrate the earth and give thanks for it's gifts, then to worship a dead man on a cross or an unseen god.

In a way yes. But it makes more sense to me to "worship" the earth and yes, yourself :) , because no one can point the finger and say you don't exist. Besides, isn't giving thanks to gifts received the natural order of things? Do we not celebrate the birth of a child, thank someone for a gift or their kindness, or gather with others to celebrate the happiness life brings? Worship might be the wrong word for the point I was trying to make, let me re-state: it makes more sense to me, to celebrate the earth and give thanks for it's gifts, then to worship a dead man on a cross or an unseen god.

You know one thing i was waiting for to see if someone mentioned it is;
The concept of gratitude being companion to ego ballance and counter ballance to greed and lust-addiction.
It seems purely logical to me that if a child is taught to show gratitude in some way be that in what ever form that takes then they will be far more likely to value the concept of sharing with others, rather than being a greedy taker who just trys to get as much as they can as fast as they can and never give anything in return.

You know one thing i was waiting for to see if someone mentioned it is;
The concept of gratitude being companion to ego ballance and counter ballance to greed and lust-addiction.
It seems purely logical to me that if a child is taught to show gratitude in some way be that in what ever form that takes then they will be far more likely to value the concept of sharing with others, rather than being a greedy taker who just trys to get as much as they can as fast as they can and never give anything in return.

Exactly, should we not be appreciative of the gifts we receive, regardless of the giver? If a child is never taught to be thankful for that which is given then they will grow into an adult who believes that taking is the necessary order of things. If we are not thankful, as a society, for all that we have, then we see no boundaries or limits in what we can take from others. Giving becomes futile as we assume that no one will be thankful to us.

Exactly, should we not be appreciative of the gifts we receive, regardless of the giver? If a child is never taught to be thankful for that which is given then they will grow into an adult who believes that taking is the necessary order of things. If we are not thankful, as a society, for all that we have, then we see no boundaries or limits in what we can take from others. Giving becomes futile as we assume that no one will be thankful to us.

Whom or what are you thanking? It is not necessary to be thankful in this context. The implication is that you are being favored over someone else, but who or what is doing the favoring? We do not have to go around thanking some mysterious benefactor for what is obviously a byproduct of our being, circumstance, or just plain dumb luck. And when you're on the other end of some really bad luck do you go around thanking something for it? I will never tell a child to be thankful for what they have. However I will tell one that somewhere in this world there is someone not quite as lucky and if you want to correct the imbalance then the fortunate have to help the unfortunate. Thanking whatever for your good fortune is just plain selfish, not the most admirable attribute one can strive for.

Exactly, should we not be appreciative of the gifts we receive, regardless of the giver? If a child is never taught to be thankful for that which is given then they will grow into an adult who believes that taking is the necessary order of things. If we are not thankful, as a society, for all that we have, then we see no boundaries or limits in what we can take from others. Giving becomes futile as we assume that no one will be thankful to us.

Not only that it reduces the interactions of others as a one way mechanism, rather than the socialist base that all non violent communaties operate on, but the actual working fundermental of the businesses that will be born of it.

the pure Capitalist model of companies is purely evident in this expresion of the complete psychopathic action of these companies, poluting the environment to gather as much cash (labour hours) as possible.

All well educated people and societies have a system of trade and or barter that is relative to a level of appreciation of giving and receiving on a parr.
Thus to re align the personality/character to one of total taking then reduces the society into one like the ghengis khans and other such cruisades.
breeding dictators and those who think total domination of all things is perfectly acceptable.

With out charity to neighbours, a society does not exist.
Remove the socialist law from children and you have little savages.

would you shoot a child for crossing your border ?
would you take ownership of a childs toy if it came over your fence never to return it ?

oh how quickly they forget

I have heard they exist, and wonder if anyone has ever been to one.
what was it like what was it called etc... ?
you dont need to name names if you like for possible legal liabillity issues.

I'm sure you can find any number of "schools" willing to take your money if you're willing to give it to them in exchange for their "information."

For $40, Doug de Long (http://www.douglasdelong.com/ancientmysteryschool.htm) will teach you about "psychic development and spirituality" along with a host of other nonsense classes he's all-too-eager to have you pay for.

For a mere $15 you can get the 150 page "psychic development manual (http://www.psychicjoystar.com/PsychicDevelopmentClassesbyPsychicMediumJoyStar.ht ml)." They take pay pal.

My all-time favorite is this one: for $200 you can attend the psychic school's Clairvoyant Class (http://psychicschool.com/classesclairvoyance101.htm) from the comfort of your own home. They also take pay-pal (all self-respecting internet scams do).

Psychic claims are scams or assertions of the deluded. Anyone that says they have psychic ability is either lying or deluded. If I'm wrong, please show us the evidence.

Skinwalker.
Your wrong.
Take a different perspective for once, you self serving .... ***.. never mind that part.........

My favorite psychics are the ones who ask a lot of questions until you answer in the affirmative.

in holland they have a steiner university, i dont know if you are familiar with his teachings?

I'm sure you can find any number of "schools" willing to take your money if you're willing to give it to them in exchange for their "information."

For $40, Doug de Long (http://www.douglasdelong.com/ancientmysteryschool.htm) will teach you about "psychic development and spirituality" along with a host of other nonsense classes he's all-too-eager to have you pay for.

For a mere $15 you can get the 150 page "psychic development manual (http://www.psychicjoystar.com/PsychicDevelopmentClassesbyPsychicMediumJoyStar.ht ml)." They take pay pal.

My all-time favorite is this one: for $200 you can attend the psychic school's Clairvoyant Class (http://psychicschool.com/classesclairvoyance101.htm) from the comfort of your own home. They also take pay-pal (all self-respecting internet scams do).

Psychic claims are scams or assertions of the deluded. Anyone that says they have psychic ability is either lying or deluded. If I'm wrong, please show us the evidence.

your favorite number is 12 and you have a 15 year old daughter
tabble tennis is a real passion for you and you have 9 pairs of orange socks, tuesday is your special day of the week and your defincient in dopamine :m:
for a mear 500 pounds sterling in gold bullion (and a couple of packets of chips a loaf of bread and a bottle of orange juice, and a extra large packet of toilet rolls, and a couple of those things that kinda look like the things that were just over there) you may have a full reading of the sunday paper while on the toilet.

in holland they have a steiner university, i dont know if you are familiar with his teachings?

thanks for that, do you mean rudolf steiner (sp?), the founder of some alternative style schools teaching open plan learning ?

My point is why worship anything, Earth, rocks, dead men, spectres, whatever? Nature giving me life, that's great, but are we not a part of it? Don't you think its kind of like worshipping yourself? What is man's penchant for needing to worship something? Just accept that you are here through an incredible sequence of circumstances and live your life without bowing to something you either can or can't see.

Whats wrong with man worshipping woman and woman worshipping man?

Whats wrong with man worshipping woman and woman worshipping man?

Good point.
if one does not worship anything,
then where does one draw a comparative value on life ?
why not commit suicide immediately ?
why not kill everyone else you do not like immediately ?

psychopathy is indeed an illness of the mind.
is empathy innate ?
i suggest it is, and is mearly nurtured OUT of children as they grow up rather than "into".

ripleofdeath look your quote is pink you must be gay.


lol that type of thinking is familiar.

lol that type of thinking is familiar.

hahahaha
indeed
biggotry and religous fundermentalism have no place in my private life, and i avoid all private and busines contact with any who are that way inclined.
a new better world with less violence and less famine is not created through apathetic complacency and mealy mouthed convalesence to such anti society people and companies.

unfortunately most children are alrady conditioned by their own parents and peers once they get to be about 12 years old.
basicaly once they finnish puberty its most often too late to turn them around into a caring non boiggotted human being that has empathy.


Women are just as bad as men with sexual dysfunction and biggotry,
keeping in mind the majority of morals and ethics come from the mothers.
the father makes the little off hand comments, the mother jokes about it and puts on the pathetic excuse voice and says "you should not "realy" say that".
undermining any last resolve of the child well before they even get to high school.

Keep in mind, most women know it is all about keeping up with the jones's and so will play the social high ground around other peopel in a public setting, but the reality is in how they raise their own children.

hahahaha
indeed
biggotry and religous fundermentalism have no place in my private life, and i avoid all private and busines contact with any who are that way inclined.
a new better world with less violence and less famine is not created through apathetic complacency and mealy mouthed convalesence to such anti society people and companies.

unfortunately most children are alrady conditioned by their own parents and peers once they get to be about 12 years old.
basicaly once they finnish puberty its most often too late to turn them around into a caring non boiggotted human being that has empathy.



I think when it comes to the problem of biggotry and lack of empathy, it's not something which can be solved by simply censoring it. I think the main problem with Americans, and the west in general is the west wants to sweep bigotry under the rug, and hide the racism. Thinking that if they just don't say anything racist, that they can at least not look as bad to the anti-racists such as yourself. The problem with this however is, even if people don't say racist words, people still act just as racist as always, and just as sexist as always, so I'm actually in support of freeing the language from the censorship so that we can actually communicate as humans. I do not think racism is something people should be forced to hide, even if I disagree with it. Freedom of speech ranks higher than covering up bigotry.


Women are just as bad as men with sexual dysfunction and biggotry,
keeping in mind the majority of morals and ethics come from the mothers.
the father makes the little off hand comments, the mother jokes about it and puts on the pathetic excuse voice and says "you should not "realy" say that".
undermining any last resolve of the child well before they even get to high school.

That's exactly the point. People want to be bigots or racist in secret, in private, and joke in private when they think no ones watching. The problem with this is, this makes it impossible to actually have a debate on anything. The more people censor themselves in public, the more fake relationships people will have, and the more conflict and bigotry it will generate. Basically, in order to move beyond race we have to actually be able to discuss it, from BOTH sides. It's pointless to have a censored conversation about race, using politically correct terms, and talking points from the left and right. Obviously there is a racist element in this country, and they have points of view which should be heard. Where exactly can an anti-racist go, to have an honest discussion/debate with a self admitted racist?

Even the most racist members of the KKK do not want to admit to being racist in public, so whats the point? Why be racist if you are not proud of it? Why believe in something which cannot stand the test of debate?

Keep in mind, most women know it is all about keeping up with the jones's and so will play the social high ground around other peopel in a public setting, but the reality is in how they raise their own children.


Maybe you are right, but once again, where can racists and anti-racists go to have intellectual discussions? It seems from my perspective, at this point that neither side discusses anything, they talk at each other. Both the racist and anti-racist want to pretend to not be racist, by adopting certain neutral code words like multi-culturalism, and tolerance, when in reality, in most cases both sides are racist in two completely different ways. The result of these fake debates is that there is no progress. People cannot even begin to discuss genetic discrimination, or move beyond the race debate because both sides want to use these code words to have fake discussions that promote race and racism.

If you even use the word tolerance you are promoting intolerance, because whats the opposite of tolerance? If you use the word race you promote racism, because what is a race anyway? It's the language that both racists and anti-racists share, which makes any intellectual see that both sides want race to exist, both sides protect their code words, and talking points, and neither side really wants to end the debate, it's almost as if both sides gain by just having the fake debate on race moreso than actually having a scientific discussion, or progressing the debate onto more sophisticated yet related topics such as genetic discrimination.

What exactly does the average anti-racist believe when they still insist we believe in race and use the word race, and use the word tolerance? Why should we keep using the same words?

And what exactly do the racists believe on the other side? I don't actually believe they believe all the stuff they put out there because some of it is so unscientific that it's humorous. Maybe you can attempt to tell me, why exactly do people still have the 50 year old race debate? Why are we using words, and concepts, from times of slavery, like black and white, and using these weak PC words like tolerance instead of acceptance?

I mean, should we tolerate gender equality? Should we tolerate homosexuality? The word tolerance itself, is based on the principle of being unable to accept something. That word may have made since right after segregation ended, or during the civil rights movment, but it's 2007, and most of the youth grew up in a society that had/has actual acceptance. Tolerance as a word brings us back to the days where inter-racial marriage is illegal, and where homosexuals were to be stoned to death.

So I think, the best thing parents can do, is listen to their children on social issues. The youth know more about it. There are a range of new ideas, new concepts, new words, that did not exist when our parents were growing up. Our parents might not have had the internet and had no concept of how connected the current world is. So obviously the outdated race debates, are what holds us back. The gender and homosexuality debates hold us back too, because our current concept of gender is too ridged and limited, and then we still have people who think homosexuality is both a choice and a sin.

All good points, there is something in your writing that makes me wonder if your a muscian.
he he
will not go any further on that one as this is not the place for private discussions.

"can't say i would agree to tollerate such discusion any less than one of that such desired by the very nature of discusion."
(hint on methadology [thespian paraphrasing])

Someone is always pushing a barrow of some sort.
Now that the tory right have entrenched the use of depresion as the tool of REPRESION, there is a diffeent game a-foot my dear schollar.

Should i dare walk in the mind set i might just spit poison for a day or two.

the whole political correctness movement is one designed to promote biggotry and reinforce Sexism, Racism, Sexual orientation stereo typing, and to reinforce the undercurrent of behind closed doors hatred for anything other than the norm.

it is a big mistake to think the concept of biggotry and racism (sexism and sexual oritentation included) is one that sits firmly on the light or white western peoples shoulders.

I know what your asking
i simply have no time to give it any real justice.
this is my last day online, and i am already 2 days behind scedule. :mad:

ask yourself do you want the answer you seek handed to you on a plate as an opinion ?
or do you want the formula of the equation that facilitates it inside the mind of the expereincer.

We are all teachers. If you have learned to follow hunches and tell others you believe; that is teaching. In the same manner if you doubt and share that, you are also teaching.

"whether you think you can, or think you can't. Either way you are right."
- Henry Ford.

It is also interesting how gratitude has entered into this thread, albeit that it should have its own.

According to many great historical figures and present day magnates they have achieved much through the POWER of gratitude.

This list includes Plato, Jung, Shakespeare, Beethoven, Churchill, Hugo, Newton, Lincoln, Emmerson, Einstein, Bell, Buddha, Stone, Ford, Winfrey, Hill, and more.

They have all looked at gratitude as a means towards success. Even Newton (whom we all must respect being a science forum and all) devoted much time to ancient "secrets" such as the famed "Emerald Tablet".

see: --- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Tablet - 31k

A simple way to understand the power of gratitude is by watching the new movie called "The Secret".

A short version of this power is what has been called "The law of attraction". This power can be guffawwed by scientists and naysayers, but oddly enough it seems to work miracles.

The idea is that "energy follows thought" and that every thought is a creation. (Hocus Pocus, YEP!!!).

Every thought is a creation buffered by time. If you think about and worry your bills you attract more bills. If you think about sickness, you can get sick. If you are thankfull, you attract more things to be thankfull for. If you think of living in abundance, abundance will come.

"All that we are is a result of what we have thought"
-Buddha

"You create your own universe as you go along"
- Winston Churchill

"What this power is I cannot say. All I know is that it exists"
- Alexander Graham Bell.

So kooky as I may sound. I am not alone. Catch negative thinking in the bud, and replace it with thankfullness and visualizations of glory, and test these theories.

The final frontier of science will be the human mind.

kwhilborn

Why do woo-woo's always cite random quotes of famous (and, in Henry Ford's case, infamous) people?

"We are all teachers." This reminds me of Bobcat Goldthwaite's comedy routine where he notes that he finished third from the last in his class. His plan was to find two guys that finished below him and become the leader of their gang! In that regard, we are all teachers!

Yes skinwalker, and I also accept paypal! Another venue for psychic training (besides Hogwarts), is to look at ESP conventions etc.

Why the interest in parapsychology if you are obviously closed to the possibilities?

How many science frontiers have once been deemed impossible by the skinwalkers of the world. You can wear your "flat earth society" t-shirt in the privacy of your home, but science does have room for telepathy as surely as it does radio, etc.

This thread was for someone who wants to explore psychic training. If your only comments are graffiti, then go to Yahoo chat or some other stress relief bantering forum. There is more acceptance of telepathy and other psi occurrences than ever before among the science community, and how can you even perform in science if your mind is closed.

I am way past believing in Telepathy. I cannot prove what I have witnessed in this field is beyond continual coincidences, but it has been enough to know that I have a better understanding of the Universe than many. It is enough to know I can exclude any theories that dissallow telepathy. You will just have to continue disbelieving, because no matter how well psychic hypothesis are proved, there is always the matter of how many coincidences equals proof. Proof of something that cannot as yet be measured seems pretty far off.

I know you'll respond with more "graffiti", but I've said my piece. Believe what you want. I won't think of you as a lesser being, just deprived a bit.

kwhilborn

Why the interest in parapsychology if you are obviously closed to the possibilities?

Because nutjobs, woo-woo's, scammers, and the ignorant deserve a counter-voice of reason and, in your case, ridicule.


How many science frontiers have once been deemed impossible by the skinwalkers of the world. You can wear your "flat earth society" t-shirt in the privacy of your home, but science does have room for telepathy as surely as it does radio, etc.

Oh, goody. The appeal to authority. Appealing to the authority of legitimate science is a hallmark of pseudoscience. So-called "pysychic" mumbo-jumbo has had over 200 years to figure it out. Since that time, the microscope has paved the way to modern microbiology and we use scanning electrons to look close; Da Vinci's drawings of flying machines made to resemble birds have given way to jet aircraft and modern avionics; Jules Vernes' fantasies of visiting a Moon made of cheese has been replaced with robotic exploration of the universe that reveals possible water on Mars and oceans of methane on Titan.

But what has the study of "psi" given us in two hundred years? Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zip.

Its poppycock held onto by significance-junkies and mystery-mongers that, perhaps, lack the intelligence, education, or imagination to find a genuine sense of wonder and awe in the real world. They, therefore, look to the fantastical.


This thread was for someone who wants to explore psychic training. If your only comments are graffiti, then go to Yahoo chat or some other stress relief bantering forum.

Nope. Not gonna do it. I was here first. And if you want to make claims that "psychic abilities" are real enough that someone can "train" in them, I'm going to ridicule you whenever it strikes my fancy. But show a single shred of legitimate evidence for your claims and I'll retract all my words. Saying that this thread is "for someone who wants to explore psychic training" is like saying another thread is for someone that wants to learn how to be invisible or fly like superman. Its poppycock. Before one can "train" in "psychic abilities," one must first establish that such nonsense isn't nonsense. That hasn't been done.


There is more acceptance of telepathy and other psi occurrences than ever before among the science community, and how can you even perform in science if your mind is closed.

Complete and utter bullshit. There is zero "acceptance" of telepathy and other "psi" in science. This is because it hasn't been supported by evidence. It is poppycock. Complete and utter nonsense perpetrated by the ignorant, the under-educated, and the greedy.


You will just have to continue disbelieving, because no matter how well psychic hypothesis are proved, there is always the matter of how many coincidences equals proof. Proof of something that cannot as yet be measured seems pretty far off.

That's just it. Coincidences don't equal proof of any sort. Not when the only coincidences that are considered are the positive ones whilst every negative coincidence is ignored or not even considered. THAT is how the "psi" phenomenon works: consider the "hits" and ignore everything that's not a "hit."


I know you'll respond with more "graffiti", but I've said my piece. Believe what you want. I won't think of you as a lesser being, just deprived a bit.

Yes, the faithful always have their conclusions to which they consider only the data that supports them whilst willfully remaining ignorant to data that is contrary.

Every few months, our little science board gets a woo-woo trolling through after discovering a thread on google to offer his .02 cents on the "miracle of psi" and how its changed his life and how "those that seek knowledge will be rewarded...," etc, etc. Interestingly enough, the Religion subforum gets the same kinds of nutters, but with a different imaginary force to blame.

Yes; I can see what drives them away.

You are doing an excellent job patrolling the sciforums, keep it up.

I suppose you don't believe in Ball lightning either?

or is that too "paranormal" for you?

I suppose you have never heard of "Steven Hawkings", or we could talk for length (NOT) about his "fifth dimension" mathematical concepts.

Everything is energy. It may seem hard to grasp, so you may want to sit down, but we are made up of cells, beyond that, molecules, beyond that, atoms.

Nikola Tesla tried to explain Ball lightning and could not. Can you?

Nikola Tesla tried to explain Ball lightning and could not. Can you?

Who cares? Can you demonstrate anything beyond strawman arguments?

I have heard they exist, and wonder if anyone has ever been to one.
what was it like what was it called etc... ?
you dont need to name names if you like for possible legal liabillity issues.I did meet a psychic-trainer or guru once.

He offered me a lesson for a few hundred dollars.
Imagine my surprise when he took me to a secluded alley and began unzipping his fly.

I was flabbergasted, insulted, dismayed and soon ….enjoying his lessons.
I quickly discovered the easiest way towards enlightenment and supernatural empowerment.

The same forces that produced the magic of new life could impregnate my soul with paranormal insights and mystical abilities.

I swallowed…my pride and took a healthy spoonful of his aura within me.

Since then I can perceive stupidity.
I feel it right …around…here!

Yes; I can see what drives them away.

You are doing an excellent job patrolling the sciforums, keep it up.

I suppose you don't believe in Ball lightning either?

or is that too "paranormal" for you?

I suppose you have never heard of "Steven Hawkings", or we could talk for length (NOT) about his "fifth dimension" mathematical concepts.

Everything is energy. It may seem hard to grasp, so you may want to sit down, but we are made up of cells, beyond that, molecules, beyond that, atoms.

Nikola Tesla tried to explain Ball lightning and could not. Can you?
More appeals to authority. Try sticking to the relevant topic. The things you mention above in your failing attempts to offer legitimacy to your imagination have data that stand on their own and their own debate points.

"Psi," on the other hand, is unrelated to any of these things and has no real science behind it. Even the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research laboratory (PEAR) has closed it doors after fleecing believers for millions in grant money over the years.

But I'm sure there are plenty more "oppressed and ridiculed" scientists and scientific ideas you've yet to appeal to in your search for legitimacy. You should look into the chap that discovered plate tectonics and how he was laughed at by his geologist peers until later research proved his theory (or a very close approximation).

The difference between "psi" and all the genuinely oppressed, laughed at, and doubted is that the former has had just as long to produce results and has failed. Miserably.

Besides, if all the woo-woo's and kooks would be "driven away," then the subforum would find its genuinely useful purpose: discussing the dangers and problems that pseudoscientific inquiry into the paranormal and junk like "psi" really poses to science and science education.

This is my second last reply on sciforum, and my last on this thread.

My point with the lightning ball, is that it has been an "unexplained mystery". There have been sightings and denials, and it was never accepted as fact.

It was not until less than one month ago it has been explained. It has been the result of lightning hitting silicon. Some mystery.

I kinda feel for ya. It must be sad patrolling the sciforums weeding out the "bad information". See, I always believed the good forums had discussions and assumed possibilities. Sciforum apparently falls into a latter category.

I was hoping for responses such as.

"If telepathy were possible maybe you could... blah blah."

graffiti all you want. I am done here. I only have one more post, in a different thread.

This is my second last reply on sciforum, and my last on this thread.

My point with the lightning ball, is that it has been an "unexplained mystery". There have been sightings and denials, and it was never accepted as fact.

It was not until less than one month ago it has been explained. It has been the result of lightning hitting silicon. Some mystery.

So what? This has nothing to do with your imaginative assertions, which you've yet to demonstrate in any way.


I kinda feel for ya. It must be sad patrolling the sciforums weeding out the "bad information". See, I always believed the good forums had discussions and assumed possibilities. Sciforum apparently falls into a latter category.

"Weeding out" fantasies of the overactive imagination of significance-junkies and mystery-mongers isn't science, it's just good, clean fun. We won't apologize for 'weeding' you out.


I was hoping for responses such as.

"If telepathy were possible maybe you could... blah blah."

graffiti all you want. I am done here. I only have one more post, in a different thread.

How about, "If telepathy were possible, someone would be able to demonstrate it?"

Every time I see a magic trick which I cannot explain nor understand the trick behind it, I immediately jump to the supernatural conclusion that the magician is a sorcerer.
When I do not comprehend the ordinary I imagine the extraordinary.

I’m funny that way.

I bet to a dog an automobile is magical just like to a moron the processes of nature are supernatural.

My point with the lightning ball, is that it has been an "unexplained mystery". There have been sightings and denials, and it was never accepted as fact.

Since the author of this post has made the wise choice of moving on, let me offer a reply for those that stumble on this thread via Google (like he no doubt did in finding a science forum).

The above quote is an example of the logical fallacy called an argument from personal incredulity. Typically, this argument says, "I can't explain or understand this, therefore it cannot be true." But sometimes it gets turned around, as kwhilborn has done and made to say, "there are unexplained things that science accepts, therefore the unexplained nature of 'psi' means it must be true."

In essence, what kwhilborn has done is mixed three logical fallacies by turning around the argument from personal incredulity. Namely, he creates an appeal to authority (science) which doesn't follow (creating the 3rd fallacy, the non sequitur) since being unexplained isn't reason enough to assume legitimacy.

Unicorns and altantis are unexplained, yet have no legitimacy. The alien abduction phenomenon is largely unexplained (though there is recent psychological work that has made some in-roads into the disorder), yet has no legitimacy with regard to the hypothesis that space-aliens are abducting people in their sleep.

The woo-woo will always find a science board where other woo-woo's to try and find some discussion. The reason is this provides legitimacy in their minds, justifying their beliefs, either to themselves or to peers since it may be their hope that they can say to them, "look, I've had discussions with scientists, my 'theory' must be legitimate since it's accepted by the scientists who discussed it with me."

This is the reason that Stephen J. Gould and Richard Dawkins had/have policies that they do not debate creationists in public: Gould believed that as soon as they did, they would declare legitimacy based solely on the fact that science paid them some attention.

Since the author of this post has made the wise choice of moving on, let me offer a reply for those that stumble on this thread via Google (like he no doubt did in finding a science forum).

The above quote is an example of the logical fallacy called an argument from personal incredulity. Typically, this argument says, "I can't explain or understand this, therefore it cannot be true." But sometimes it gets turned around, as kwhilborn has done and made to say, "there are unexplained things that science accepts, therefore the unexplained nature of 'psi' means it must be true."

In essence, what kwhilborn has done is mixed three logical fallacies by turning around the argument from personal incredulity. Namely, he creates an appeal to authority (science) which doesn't follow (creating the 3rd fallacy, the non sequitur) since being unexplained isn't reason enough to assume legitimacy.

Unicorns and altantis are unexplained, yet have no legitimacy. The alien abduction phenomenon is largely unexplained (though there is recent psychological work that has made some in-roads into the disorder), yet has no legitimacy with regard to the hypothesis that space-aliens are abducting people in their sleep.

The woo-woo will always find a science board where other woo-woo's to try and find some discussion. The reason is this provides legitimacy in their minds, justifying their beliefs, either to themselves or to peers since it may be their hope that they can say to them, "look, I've had discussions with scientists, my 'theory' must be legitimate since it's accepted by the scientists who discussed it with me."

This is the reason that Stephen J. Gould and Richard Dawkins had/have policies that they do not debate creationists in public: Gould believed that as soon as they did, they would declare legitimacy based solely on the fact that science paid them some attention.You, Sir, are a hard-headed, credulous, unbeliever and insatiable skeptic.

I despise you!!!

Imagine throwing all that cold water on unsuspecting imbeciles convinced that they have supernatural powers or knowledge of the mysterious.
Imagine using reason to combat the irrational.

You should be flogged, tarred and feathered.
If it weren’t for types like you, religion would be more acceptable and Christ would truly be the Son of God.

Kudos. All of these posts have been insults towards you, yet you seem to think I am seeking validation from you.

Ha. Ha.

OMG, I want to puke.

The entire banter and "Flat Earth Society" thing was just because it amuses me to see closed minded individuals. You are kinda fun, but you're taking up to much of my time. That is why I am leaving SciForums. It seems to be just a poorly organized Chat room. I will stick with members only forums, at least they use their real names, and discuss things.

LOL... don't let the door hit you on the way out, pal.

Kudos. All of these posts have been insults towards you, yet you seem to think I am seeking validation from you.

Ha. Ha.

OMG, I want to puke.

The entire banter and "Flat Earth Society" thing was just because it amuses me to see closed minded individuals. You are kinda fun, but you're taking up to much of my time. That is why I am leaving SciForums. It seems to be just a poorly organized Chat room. I will stick with members only forums, at least they use their real names, and discuss things.Noooooooooooo!

Our teacher is…..is….goooone.

Damn you all for not being worthy of him!

What?
The Earth is not flat?!!!!
Joinx!!!

Are you reading the correct epistemology for the ontology of a flat Earth?
Are you accepting the guidance of the “correct” authorities?

It’s all a matter of education.
You are retarded…but around certain crowds you are perspicuous.
Star Trek conventions, for instance.

The entire banter and "Flat Earth Society" thing was just because it amuses me to see closed minded individuals. You are kinda fun, but you're taking up to much of my time. That is why I am leaving SciForums. It seems to be just a poorly organized Chat room. I will stick with members only forums, at least they use their real names, and discuss things.

Translation: "I can't find anyone here that agrees with my fantasy, so I will blame them and look elsewhere for someone who does."