Hi guys,

I wondered if any one was interested in discussing the principles of pseudo perpetual motion discussed in a web page I just uploaded.

Perpetual motion Principles - example (http://www.paygency.com/discsunshade.htm)

The example utilises sunlight and shade as a means of changing magnetic attraction.

1. You're using the sun as an energy input, so it ain't "perpetual motion".
2. It's been done before.

so sideshowbob you are saying that if I create a devise that borrows from the background energy and runs for a very long time subject to maintenance not a perpetual device?

In this case I am using the sunlight and shade principle. But what if the source was back ground radiation would that still negate the description of "Pseudo" - perpetual motion?

You can't use background radiation as a source of energy unless you also have a second source.

an abstract,

Say I designed a crystal that collected back ground radiation and in the process of doing so increased in temperature and by doing so generated an output via steam generation 1000 watts of electricity.

Would you consider this to be a perpetual energy device, a pseudo perpetual energy device or just a crystal that produces 1000 watts of electricity

I, for one, would consider that a honkin' big crystal.

I'm not sure what "pseudo"-perpetual is supposed to mean. Is that the same as "not" perpetual? Because we have a lot of non-perpetual motion machines already.
To me, "pseudo"-perpetual motion sounds like making photocopies of counterfeit money. If you're going to fake it, why not fake the real thing?

And no, something that runs for "a very long time" is not perpetual (although it could be useful).

Say I designed a crystal that collected back ground radiation and in the process of doing so increased in temperature and by doing so generated an output via steam generation 1000 watts of electricity.Then I'd consider you a genius.

Sideshow I think it was Crisp who ages ago suggested that pseudo is used to remove the absoluteness of the word perpetual.

Perpetual eternally is an awful long perpetuation.

You create a device that runs with out runnning costs ( choice of words ) ie. runs with the use of freely available energy or forces then I would assume it to be pseudo perpetual.
For example a tidal generator that runs on moon power would fall into this category.

as the tides show the main thing to acheive is a perpetually changing action horizon. Or event horizon. The moon is always setting and always rising as to is the sun and the stars.

so effectively the earths orbit and roration is a pseudo perpetual motion /energy system.

To develope a crystal storage device would need to capitalise on the rotation of the earth in a field of EM. and changing gravities ( Luna) and night time or dark side earth. All very small forces that offer potentials. Just a matter of learning how to tap into it I guess

another example would be to have a bag system that heateed up during the day and cooled at night. The flow of pressure being used like the tides can be. Might get 100 watts a day jut by doing that. But if you had a million bags doing it you get 100,000000 watts....The point is their needs to be a perpetuating difference happening and as soon as you have that you have a potential to utilise it.

day time 40 deg C - night time -1 Degree = 41degrees of potential.

so just specially designed bags could make a big difference......to our energy supplies. of course we have had solar energy devices for ages and the above aint new......but it is understanding the principle involved that will acheive success.....hence this thread

I didn't mean to quibble about terminology. It just seems to me that it's unnecessary to say "pseudo-perpetual" when you're talking about ordinary motion (which is, after all, the only kind of motion we have). Why not just call it "motion"?

The tidal energy you mentioned is a real source of "free" energy. I think you'd be well-advised to concentrate your efforts on something like that, rather than perpetual motion - real or pseudo.

actually I am in the middle of researching and designing a really cheap paddle type tidal generator for a tidal inlet near by where I live.

The problem with tidal generators are that they aren't portable ....put in your pocket type devise...

If I was able to build a CD sized PPM I would be much happier.

For eample if a music CD is coated with the right magnetic surface designed so that both surfaces spead apart slightly and come together slightly as they revolve then we have a rather novel device.

another example would be to have a bag system that heateed up during the day and cooled at night. The flow of pressure being used like the tides can be.I don't think this is very practical... but most certainly an idea I've never heard. This is something that could work, albeit on a small scale. Don't tie yourself up by linking it to perpetual motion.

Say I designed a crystal that collected back ground radiation and in the process of doing so increased in temperature and by doing so generated an output via steam generation 1000 watts of electricity.

A while ago I was working on this possibility.

If one considers a magnetic field as being a relatively static space time distortion set up by the magnet not conforming to the space it takes up.

To get a crystal which normally confroms to it's space ( no magnetic field) to NOT conform to it's space would generate a space time distortion.

By getting the crystal to harmonically vibrate so as to not conform would be the first step to acheiving the ambition. If the crystal was vibrating hard enough it would get hot etc etc.....

So possibly it is the way we change the crystals inherant space that determines it's "fit" and if it don't "fit" it will get hot trying to "fit"

so we alter the space but not the crystal......hmmmm

if you catch my drift.