Given ALL the actions of corporations, it is my belief that their existence is not beneficial to human society. Altough some of their actions and aspects are beneficial (for instance, cars helps us move around), other actions and aspects are not (cars polute too much and hurt the environment) and the net effect is negative (it's not worthwhile to have cars that hurt the environment).

Standard rules are fine.

Who wants to join?

Me. I HATE them.

Wow... that was quick... LOL! :D

Cool! Now we only need a couple of people who think corporations are just fine!

Corporations are just fine.. if you're one of the higher-ups in the company or are reaping benefits with them from the stock market. ;)

I hate em. Too big. Why is big government bad yet big corporations okay? We say big government is bad due to the power they can have over us with laws and funding, yet these same corporations and lobbyist groups are the ones that control our government, and even worse, goods that we all eat, drink, buy for pleasure, etc.

- N

A better question would be...is the net effect of corporate advertising negative?

It's not just advertising....

Would you like me to create the discussion thread in advance, if that is allowed?

Corporations are just fine.. if you're one of the higher-ups in the company or are reaping benefits with them from the stock market. ;)

I hate em. Too big. Why is big government bad yet big corporations okay? We say big government is bad due to the power they can have over us with laws and funding, yet these same corporations and lobbyist groups are the ones that control our government, and even worse, goods that we all eat, drink, buy for pleasure, etc.

- N

Wouldn't the actual problem there be government, and not corporations? Much corporate power is given to them by the government. Why do you think it costs so much to buy sugar or ethanol from Brazil? Save the farmers? They all moved west in the Grapes of Wrath.

Wouldn't the actual problem there be government, and not corporations?

In a capitalistic society such as the U.S., government and corporations are one in the same. What's the saying? The difference between capitalism and communism is that with communism, the government controls corporations and with capitalism, corporations control the government? ;)

- N

This is a proposal thread. Let's get 2 people to oppose the null hypothesis.

I don't think thats going to happen, a lot of people hate corporations.
Unless you can PM mountainhare to see if he cares..

There are actually plenty of ppl on SF who support large corporations. Funny how none of them responded to this thread yet.

I support corporations. If you have read any of my previous posts, you will probably be falling out of your chair by now. Corporations are a very good at making and distributing goods effectively and efficiently when operating in competitive enviroments. But unfortunately, that is not the environment in which they operate today.

Where we run into problems is when they are allowed to run free and unrestrained…what we have today in the United States. Under those conditions they tend to restrict competition and create monopolies and become inefficient and costly, witness the healthcare and oil industries in the United States. And CEOs become kings and queens and run their companies by fiat and paying themselves huge sums of money for substandard performance and manipulating numbers as a substitute for performance. Performance becomes optional for the CEO since they control all aspects of the corporation including the board and stockholders. For the most part, stockholders have little power in corporations. Because few individual stockholders hold enough stock to make a difference.

Corporations must be controlled in order to optimize their value and performance to society. And that is where we fall down today. Corporations have run amok! Our brothers and sisters who live in countries with parliamentary forms of government have been much better at controlling corporations than we in the United States. I think it is much easier to for corporations to control a two party political system than a multi-party parliamentary system.

Government and the people should be placing constraints on corporations so that they can become effective organs of society. We saw what happened in the early 20th century with unrestrained capitalism. It generated the age of robber barons. We have a similar problem today, with the age of the CEO. Too much corporate power is vested in the CEOs of major corporations. And they use that power to feather their beds at the expense of everyone else. We desperately need corporate governance reform!

We saw a very weak attempt at corporate reform after Enron and a few other major corporate scandals in recent years. But still much work needs to be done. But that work will not happen until we, the citizens wrench our government out of the clutches of the corporate lobbyists and CEOs. That is why I am supporting Edwards for president. He is the only one really pushing the anti lobbyist platform…unfortunately. And that is why this election is so very important!

Well, Truthseeker, you have your opponent, Let the games begin.. Erm, I mean, debates.. In a separate thread of course.

I'm not sure if he is an opponent. I kinda agree with some of his points....

Well, another stagmated debate thread, I'm thinking the only way to get one started is to pull a sandy..

Though I personally don't like multinationals, I am willing to debate against you. I will argue that their existence is beneficial to society.

I love corporations.

Corporations allow the accumulation of capital to produce goods we would not otherwise have in large cheap supply, e.g. computers. Corporations are great for the economy and employ millions - providing food, shelter and clothing. Corporations produces ungodly amounts of food so that our population can grow. Corporations are great!

Corporations are a result of a capitalist minded society ...

that said, they do accompish the goals set forth.

Frankly, the corporate entity itself is only a means of protecting the shareholders from personal liability. The practical effect of a corporation versus a large privately owned company on society is the same. Aren't you guys really rallying against large organizations - not just corporations?

I am rallying against capitalist society at large...=p

And your ideal non-capitalist society would be?

And your ideal non-capitalist society would be?

comm :p unism ... with slight modifications of Andropov-like presidency

Oh. So, the U.S.S.R., which has now admitted its defeat to capitalism, is your role model?

Oh. So, the U.S.S.R., which has now admitted its defeat to capitalism, is your role model?

yes :)

Do you believe you would be treated better under communism?

Do you believe you would be treated better under communism?

I don't know about the world...everyone's is different. For me communism is better for other democracy and other sort of government.

Could you answer my question, please. Would you - not the world - be better treated under communism?

Could you answer my question, please. Would you - not the world - be better treated under communism?

its not about me...Why?...it is about me being beneficial to everyone else in a better way for everyone. Communism is not about ego as capitalism is, communism is about being part of a large organism a society. The individuality is lost and replaced by the feeling of a larger matrix of society.

Well, if you want to treat others better than yourself, why don't you sell yourself as a slave or try indentured servitude?

Who wants to join?

People didn't join, because the question is too subjective. It is like Healthcare for example. Depending on your social status, you might view it as good or as bad.

If you are a non-union employee of a large corporation you have a completely different view than the CEO of said corporation. Please note that there is a different between company and corporation. Corporation is a legal person actually, which is silly itself....

Now I could play my Logical Republican alterego and argue that corporations are benefical to society, but I would be arguing from the CEOs point of view. And I already addressed this p[roblem in the previous paragraph.

Here is a short argument though: If we acknowledge that "The might is just " rule is one of nature's natural law, the existence of corporations is perfectly in sync with that, because it helps the powerful to be and stay might...

How is that for starters???

However, might is only percieved. it is only the people who buy the corporations products that allow it to practice such might. I read about a boycott of nestle that managed to changed things regarding company policy, all their powers were for naught if one does not buy their products, because then there would be no profit.

I digress however, the original point was that corporations are not beneficial to society, and i;m not well read enough to really (in depth) debate on that. Although i did watch the documentary the corporation...

How about this. I and someone else debate against Why? and Syzygys . How's that?

Or maybe joepistole and Why?, actually....

Hey, there were no corporations in communism and look where they ended up! :)

The government is the corporation in communism and look where they ended up! ;)