By all accounts I am a skeptic. I really don't believe in any psychic phenomenon, but it isn't for lack of trying. I really want to believe. I do. However, I have tried to train myself in telikinesis and I couldn't. I have wanted to see someone else do something like telikinesis, but never had it happen. I am skeptic because I haven't seen evidence that convinces me. I would consider my skepticism as an intelligent way of approaching the subject. I don't believe psychic phenomenon exist because there is not enough evidence of it to add it to my worldview.

However, there are other kinds of skeptics out there. These are the people who say things like "supernatural goes against the laws of physics and can't exist" these people are morons who don't understand science in the slightest. They think it is the job of science to set up a worldview and reject anything that falls outside of it. Any legitimate scientist will tell you that is bullshit, because it is. In science the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. To say the burden of proof for psychic abilities has not been met would be correct (or most people would agree it is). However, to say that science has disproved is totally wrong. There is no science that disproves that psychic abilities exist. In fact, I can't even imagine how you would go about doing that. It is impossible to prove that there are no people in the world with psychic abilities.

What I want to understand from the people that are constantly claiming psychic ability is impossible is, why do you think that? People thought the expanding universe was impossible. Einstein invented a cosmological constant to appease them, it was the biggest mistake of his career. If psychic phenomenon really exist it will eventually be proven. If not, well, some will go on believing, but it won't be legitimate science. Why rule it out so wholeheartedly when it is impossible to disprove. Just say the evidence isn't there and call it that.

Scientists also once thoguht that the earth is flat and the sun is spinning around it... I do believe that their today attempts to understand how this powers work could be compreared to a drinker, trying to understand how a microchip works, useing a crowbar.

You probably didn't have much results in training telikinesis, as it is a too complicated thing to start with. Like one should learn that 2+2=4 , becofore he tries solveing integrals.

I'd suggest you to try with training your intuition. Here's what I'm doing. I take 16 cards ( 4 twos, 4 threes, 4 fors and 4 fives ), shuffle them, take one card and try to "feel" what it is.

By statistic, I would have to be right at only 25% , i.e. "feel" only 4 cards out of 16. But at first I had about 6 cards and now, after a few weeks of training, I have about 8 to 10 right. Once I even had 15 out of 16 right :cool: !


Good Luck!

Originally posted by bratok
[B]Scientists also once thoguht that the earth is flat and the sun is spinning around it...

I think you'll find that view was largely held by the church, and that to say otherwise was considered heresey. Galileo was oppressed by the church for postulating that the earth moved around the sun.

So it quite plainly, was Galileo, who was a scientist, who overturned a view held by people with blind faith.

And now, people with blind faith, hold many and various viewpoints. Viewpoints that they cannot substantiate, and viewpoints they would not dare to uphold, unless scientists like Galileo, had challenged the church, and _proven_ them wrong on various matters of doctrine.

You are free from oppression because of science!

Originally posted by bratok
*snip*
I'd suggest you to try with training your intuition. Here's what I'm doing. I take 16 cards ( 4 twos, 4 threes, 4 fors and 4 fives ), shuffle them, take one card and try to "feel" what it is.

By statistic, I would have to be right at only 25% , i.e. "feel" only 4 cards out of 16. But at first I had about 6 cards and now, after a few weeks of training, I have about 8 to 10 right. Once I even had 15 out of 16 right :cool: !


Good Luck! WOW! How would you like to earn 900.000$? I can help you make 900.000$ if you can really do that! No kidding, I'm dead serious.

Hans

I think you'll find that view was largely held by the church, and that to say otherwise was considered heresey.
I suppose that's when one comes up with something that everybody eles, no difference if church or scientists, are not yet rady for.

For example, the same Gaston Naessens, who has created a cure for cancer ( that supposidly works ), but moder scientists don't agree with it, because it overturns Paster's virus theory.
http://www.sumeria.net/tech/naessens.html

WOW! How would you like to earn 900.000$?
Sure, what do I do ;) ?


Good Luck!

Originally posted by bratok
I suppose that's when one comes up with something that everybody eles, no difference if church or scientists, are not yet rady for.

For example, the same Gaston Naessens, who has created a cure for cancer ( that supposidly works ), but moder scientists don't agree with it, because it overturns Paster's virus theory.
http://www.sumeria.net/tech/naessens.html


Sure, what do I do ;) ?


Good Luck! That description on the website you linked to is mumbo-jumbo. I'd gladly point out to you why, but I won't derail this thread more than I'm already doing.

The 900,000$ ? --well, actually, it's 1000,000, but I tought I'd take 100,000 for my trouble as a mediator. The James Randi Educational Foundation will reward one million US$ to anybody who, under controlled conditions, can demonstrate any paranormal ability.

Your card trick evidently meets that specification and it is simple and easy to test. OK, forget about my fee, just go the the JREF site yourself, make an application and become rich. Just remember I sent you.

JREF (http://www.randi.org)
The challenge (http://www.randi.org/research/index.html)


Good luck to you!

Hans

PS: There is a nice message board there too

bratok
RE: For example, the same Gaston Naessens

if i remember correctly the concept is a few years old
if it is the same one i heard of
it left me LMAO i almost lost it i was laughing soo hard

why was a laughing
because i was picturing the faces of the scientists trying to make sence of it
scurrying around in circles saying

NO NO
the world is flat
no no no
that will never do

however i may have it confused
i cant remember that well

groove on :)

James Randi Educational Foundation will reward one million US$ to anybody who, under controlled conditions, can demonstrate any paranormal ability.
I don't think that they will give me 1 mil. if I manage to "feel" 8-10 cards out of 16. Or even if I'll get all 16 right.

On the other side, would I like to have one million dollars right now? Suppose no, not yet. Some time ago I tried doing lots of different tricks to win a lottery, but had no results. I tried analizing why and understood, that if I would have lots of money right now, I would buy a car, a house, drive around with girls, etc, etc. , but I also would stop learning myself, would stop training my intuition and any other possible senses and powers. I don't want that. I want to continue learning and training.

I've already been through the first step of Norbekov's health-training. In September-October I will attend the second step. Later this winter I'll try to get to his intuition-training classes and maybe later even find my way into his "school", to learn how to fully use my 6th and 7th sense and lots of other things I can't even imagine right now.

And then, if I'd like, getting money won't be a problem. FOREX, for example...

I can't say that I fully understand right now why "masters" don't show their powers to each and everyone, but obviosly they do have their reasons. Maybe because if everybody would see that this things are really possible, they would also want this powers and, if they would train them, they might use them not the best way.

While if you want that million, train with cards half an hour each day and in a month or two you'de be able to open all 16 cards.


Good Luck!

On the other side, would I like to have one million dollars right now? Suppose no, not yet. Some time ago I tried doing lots of different tricks to win a lottery, but had no results. I tried analizing why and understood, that if I would have lots of money right now, I would buy a car, a house, drive around with girls, etc, etc. , but I also would stop learning myself, would stop training my intuition and any other possible senses and powers. I don't want that. I want to continue learning and training.

Ok, so since I want powers so I can win the lottery am I wrong even though I want to win for completely different reasons? I don't want to win the lottery so that I can buy cars and drive around with girls. I have a girl to drive around with and winning the lottery wouldn't change that. I want to win so that I can stop going to school and work. I want to play guitar for 4-5 hours a day, and have time to read books, and watch tv, etc.

Is wanting time to become a virtuoso guitarist an impure reason to want powers?

Also the reason I wanted to learn telekinesis is because it is extremely verifiable. I wanted something solid to see. If anything will convince people of psychic phenomenon it will a telekinesis expert. Nothing would be more impressive or convincing.

Originally posted by bratok
I don't think that they will give me 1 mil. if I manage to "feel" 8-10 cards out of 16. Or even if I'll get all 16 right.

Oh, they will. Of course they will insist on a test protocol that will make you unable to cheat. But I'm sure you are not cheating?

On the other side, would I like to have one million dollars right now? Suppose no, not yet. Some time ago I tried doing lots of different tricks to win a lottery, but had no results. I tried analizing why and understood, that if I would have lots of money right now, I would buy a car, a house, drive around with girls, etc, etc. , but I also would stop learning myself, would stop training my intuition and any other possible senses and powers. I don't want that. I want to continue learning and training.

Thats nonsense. Are you saying you are training to be a psi master, but wouldnt be able to resist temptation to squander your money instead if using it to enable you to study full-time?

I've already been through the first step of Norbekov's health-training. In September-October I will attend the second step. Later this winter I'll try to get to his intuition-training classes and maybe later even find my way into his "school", to learn how to fully use my 6th and 7th sense and lots of other things I can't even imagine right now.

I don't need training to foretell you that it will set you back a lot of dough.

And then, if I'd like, getting money won't be a problem. FOREX, for example...

Well, like the others, then: Not for the money, but for the Cause! Don't you want to vindicate the belief in the supernatural?

I can't say that I fully understand right now why "masters" don't show their powers to each and everyone, but obviosly they do have their reasons. Maybe because if everybody would see that this things are really possible, they would also want this powers and, if they would train them, they might use them not the best way.

Hah. So you are saying that these masters are as greedy as everybody else and want to keep their powers to themselves. Well, I can believe that, and I also agree that if you REALLY has such powers, then the Randi million would be smallfry. So how come I see no psi masters on Forbe's list of the richest people on Earth?

While if you want that million, train with cards half an hour each day and in a month or two you'de be able to open all 16 cards.

See below.

Good Luck! [/B]

What is your procedure for this? Do you:

- Select the 16 cards from a full deck.
- Shuffle them.
- Pick them one at a time, "feel them" and
- Count hits and misses

?

Hans

bratok:

Your card experiment is interesting. Let's look at the statistics for a minute. Get your 16 cards, shuffle them, then lay them out face down on the table. Now, there are 4 types of cards (2s, 3s, 4s and 5s, say), and 4 cards of each type (one of each suit). Let's say you're just trying to guess the numbers, and not the suits. So, write down your number guesses on bits of paper and place each one below the corresponding card. When you have made all 16 guesses, turn over all the cards and add up how many you got right.

How many would we expect to get right if we just guessed at random? Well, the probabilities are as follows:

0 out of 16: 0.01
1 out of 16: 0.05
2 out of 16: 0.13
3 out of 16: 0.21
4 out of 16: 0.22
5 out of 16: 0.18
6 out of 16: 0.11
7 out of 16: 0.05
8 out of 16: 0.02
9 out of 16: 0.01
10 or more out of 16: 0.01

Now, <b>bratok</b> (and anybody else who thinks they can psychicly predict cards), please try this procedure and see how many cards you get right out of the 16.

There is a 1 in 10 chance that you will get 0,1 or more than 7 right. Please let me know if you manage this. The most likely number you'll get right will be 4.

If you try this more than once, you'll also need to keep track of how many times you tried it, because obviously the more you do it the more likely you are to get lucky. For example, if you do 10 sets of guesses, it is almost certain that on one of those attempts you will get 0, 1, 7, 8 or 9 right. More than that is still reasonably unlikely.

You'd need to do it 100 times (on average) to get more than 10 right, and if it happens it won't necessarily be because you've trained your psychic powers - it could just as well be pure chance and statistics at work.

What is your procedure for this? Do you:
- Select the 16 cards from a full deck.
- Shuffle them.
- Pick them one at a time, "feel them" and
- Count hits and misses

Yes, I take this 16 cards, shuffle them, pick out one and try to "feel" what it is, i.e. if it's a 2, 3, 4 or 5. Sometimes I can even "feel" if it is red or black.

http://www.vi2.com/getFile/268124.jpg

To begin with, you can just take the full deck, pick the top card and try to "feel" if it's red or black. Red might cause you some warm feeling, while a black one might look somehow serios to you.

Are you saying you are training to be a psi master, but wouldnt be able to resist temptation to squander your money instead if using it to enable you to study full-time?
I'm afraid so. I'd buy a Grand Cherokee and drive around with girls :cool: ...

I don't need training to foretell you that it will set you back a lot of dough.
I didn't really understand, could you refrase it?

Hah. So you are saying that these masters are as greedy as everybody else and want to keep their powers to themselves.
LOL :D ... Masters are much heigher over an avarage person with his negative feelings, such as greed, anger and other. Masters are glad to share their knowlege, but with someone who would use it the right way. They do have many people learning from them, but at first this people must learn to look at the world the new way, without anger or any other negative feelings.

While if an avarage person would be able to get his hands on this powers... For example, he would learn how to set things on fire. Now his neighbour would call him some bad name and he'll set his house on fire.

So how come I see no psi masters on Forbe's list of the richest people on Earth?
Sure you do, only they don't state about their powers. They aren't greedy, they just don't want this powers to get into the wrong hands.

For example, if Bill Gates would say that he has this powers, many people would think that he just overworked and needs a rest, while the others would also want this powers...


Good Luck!

bratok:

Please try it according to the method I've given above. Tell me how many you get right. I'll be very impressed if you get more than half of the 16 right (one try only!).

Bratok, so your chances are not 25%. For each card you take, your odds improve. To make a simple example, if you have already picked the fours and the twoos, you have 50% odds of guessing the 9th card right. It has become a game of memory. How exactly the odds will be depends on how each shuffle comes out and how good you are at remembering which cards are out and estimating odds for the rest.

No wonder you get better with practice.

Hans

Edited to add: Oh, and about the million$ prize: No worries, mate, if you are not shure of your character, just give the money to me, I will use it wisely. :rolleyes:

Ok, I changed the experiment a bit. Now after picking five cards from the deck, I shuffle them back in and pick another five cards.

The results are 4-5 out of 10 , so it's still heigher then the statistic :cool: .

Oh, another things, one should do this "exercises" only in a very good and creative moode. If you kinda depressed, you won't have any results.

I'm achieving this mood by a special meditation ( once again by Norbekov ) called "OKTAVA". The mediation itself is about an hour longs - after imagining yourself in a perfect, immortal body, in a cabing, where you come from time to time to refresh. You go out, into a waterfall, that washes off all the dirt that had stuck to you during years. It washed off everything negative, leaveing the pure, cean YOU. Then you fly theough a thunderstorm, you meat some musitions, playing for themselfs, while hiding from the rain, etc, etc... You also wisit the masters that are quietly taking, high in the mauntains. And the final step is that you artificially place yourself in a perfect, creative mood. Then you try making your mood one step higher, then another step and another ( about 10 steps ).

If you want, I can find how Norbekov describes getting into this mood.


Good Luck!

bratok:

You're not actually interested in doing a real test, are you? I guess you're afraid you won't score better than chance.

I'll stop wasting my time, then.

Originally posted by James R
bratok:
You're not actually interested in doing a real test, are you? I guess you're afraid you won't score better than chance.
I'll stop wasting my time, then.
Sorry, just maybe I wan't in the mood for the test.
Now I had some tea, made this OKTAVA and did the test :cool: .

The first number is the one I "felt" and the other is what card it was.

55 44 32 23 43 53 44 54 55 33 24 43 45 22 55 33

So it was 8 out of 16.

Of course, the real crunch comes when you have witnesses, and a new deck of cards :rolleyes:

Hans

In simply trying to "feel" red or black, I got this results.

16 cards, tried 5 times: 10,9,9,12,10.

Also can't explain them by statistics...


Here's what Norbekov writes about training intuition ( bare with the autotranslation ;) ) -

Now we shall start to train intuition. Or we shall not start? Or not now? I expect your reaction. " Well, at last! ".
Dear mine! Whether it is possible to give to drink in absentia ? Whether it is possible to feed from apart? If you somewhere øàñòàåòå, sit at home or read the book in the underground how I can transfer you that, as on employment(occupations) is compelled not to everyone to transfer, not to everyone to open?
Our students, our students are engaged in development of intuition on a special rate where we select people by very artful technique, on many parameters we check them and we sift through forty ñèò.
Why?
Because all over again the person should put in order the body. And not simply become healthy, - for this big mind(wit) it is not necessary. And that in this work to learn(find out) the force.
When - a bag with sores and any entrails - you force of the will, force of the spirit transform the body into a temple what feeling at you arises?
Why I speak "temple"? For you your body - a heavy burden, which you âîëî÷åòå behind itself on life, quacking now and then and shouting:
- well, give " give, the swine?

You do not love it(him), unless not so?! And it answers you same, that is sick, and you suffer. And what you without him(it) would do(make)?
Will tell, you have given birth to yourselves? Is not present? Will tell, this most thin creation, èñêóñíåéøèé the mechanism - your body - you have thought up this, have designed and have recovered? Is not present? Then what horse-radish spoil work of the Master?
How you will consider the person who on a wall of a temple will write "Vasya was here"? And you do(make) the same! And still something is worse. Now we start: to paint, clean, tidy up in the house!
And when the body starts to submit to your desires then you and learn(find out), on what are capable. Then in you the Winner wakes up!
When you, the soul, the, belief, the spirit create yourselves anew - about, what this sweet feeling!
But it - only began, only the first and a step, only ferment.
Then we study to change all emotional climate of the soul. Then - we get rid of everything, that to us prevents in our character. And only then we start activization pineal gland, to training intuition to change in the necessary party(side) many directions of our life, to seize the dream, at own will to change the destiny.
Though at many these changes and transformations begin as though themselves before they pass to the maximum(supreme) exercises. This usual business.
" So? Really this opposite author and will not open the secrets? And will not give any recipe how this intuition to wake? And how then our one million? ". You are disappointed? You have taken offence?
And can, I was even worse, even more opposite, than you now think? Suddenly somewhere on ñà-àìîé something is written to last page ñà-àìîå the main thing?

Well, well!
That to you it was clear, I shall tell, how the Instructor scoffed over me with the purpose of disclosing perception(recognition).
Once the Teacher has resulted me in such unsightly shad and has shown the strange unit - a huge copper tub with any not clear adaptations. Dirty everything, in a web, at once it is visible, that for a long time nobody used him(it).
Well, it(he) has explained to me, that with it to do(make). Ordered to clean it(him), then to take two buckets of peas. All peas from one bucket to paint a black paint, and another to not touch. All this to pour out in a tub and to mix.
And under a tub there was a special adaptation: you will turn - the pea in one party(side) drops out, will turn in another way - in other party(side).
How many, you think, there was peas?
And so, the problem(task) consist in that not looking to distribute(allocate) all peas on buckets so that in one black peas, and in another - usual have got only. How to you such task?
First time when has tried, in each bucket the continuous grey weight - how many black, as much and simple has turned out. More shortly, nothing has left. Began to train, and itself I think: " Yes unless it is possible? ".
And then gradually so has trained, that simply I sit, the book I read and automatically on button I press - peas itself is strewed. On each bucket it was necessary only two - three mistakes.
Dear mine! All of us were same spoiled in connection with intuition, as you now. Simply we very much wanted to learn. And I trained, as all. And that trains... Well, you already know.
You too can. But such to make the unit for you the problem. And it is so much peas, I understand, to you will find difficult. Where it(him) to take? In shop to go, then to paint...
At us on employment(occupations) we have replaced this peas cards(maps). Simply cards, black and white. Then we shall reach still up to it black - belo-seryh, color and complete sets with figures. But it already later. For now it for you rather early so we shall not speak.
And so, we mix cards, we put their "person" downwards. And then... We determine, what color the first card(map), what second. Gradually learn to learn(find out) all. But essence of exercises not in it. And in what? Start to train, and you learn!

http://www.universalinternetlibrary.ru/book/norbekov4/img/image306.jpg

The first, that we with you need to master, is a definition of the internal truth. Branch of the truth from an invention,
With which is born in your own head.
The second: moving of the consciousness to time for some seconds forward and back.
The third; generation of feelings and aspirations.
The Fourth: transfer of the best feelings and aspirations to other person.
We should master these initial skills.
As daddy Êàðëî, we shall plough and train, dear Áóðàòèíû!

The First way we refer to as... If to make such literal, rough translation, the following will turn out: " Ïîìîãè to an angel of goods to get rid of violence of a satan ", that is " Prevent an angel to copulate with a satan ". This name of exercise.
When your soul distinguishes kindness from evil when your spirit in a condition to create, create, multiply kindness, all angels around of you gather in great army. And you become their representative. Understand?
What you have wanted to make in a name of goods, in a name of love, in a name of knowledge of the best parties(sides) of the Person, these angels start to put such aspirations which with your aspirations will go shoulder to shoulder in souls of other people. Understand?
The Second way is a moving consciousness to time. You study to move the consciousness forward and back, to the past and in the future.
The Third way what? Third what exercise? To study to listen to another's soul, feelings of other soul, to distinguish them from the feelings.
The Fourth that? To transfer ideas? No, my dear! Desires? Will? No! And what is transferred? The love is transferred! The love is transferred!!!
Ideas is an eructation of lived years. Ideas which at you in a head arise, - the same, that muttering in a stomach. Want to transfer the eructation to another?
And desires, attachments, that does(makes) of you the slave, and can be, even the villain.
The true love does not have other desires, except for desire to love(like). The love does not have desire to receive, and there is an aspiration to give. The love is a self-sacrifice. Understand?
Means, if you want, that someone has risen with you beside,
That together you have opened a gate of prison and have seen horizon, what you need to transfer another? Love!
Ufff! Now once again.
To separate kindness from evil. This the first.
To move in this space between goods and evil the consciousness, choosing kindly. This the second.
To open love, to learn love, to transfer love and in this love to build, create, create in a name of light and goods. This the third and the fourth.
To operate light of love for it(him) .ðàñïðîñòðàíåíèÿ on the Earth that in the world began more than such people as you, that is able to love that what wake up, at once have adjoined you. This the fourth.
Further to you still early. Now only four exercises.

What is these black-and-white training cards(maps)?
It is simply yours "yes" also "is not present". Because Ñ. questions in life we as solve all? We either do(make), or we do not do(make); either we go, or we do not go; either we marry, or we do not marry; either we give birth, or we do not give birth, and then either we get divorced, or we do not get divorced. So?
That is inside ourselves thus we, that not understanding, speak or "yes", or "are not present".
We make a decision!
And as you usually make a decision, you already saw: 9 from 10 - a mistake. Why I speak "you"? At me intuition, thank God, with the help äóáèíîê the Instructor ÷óòî÷êó ïðîêëþíóëàñü!
Our intuition always knows the correct decision, but we do not hear her(it).
Means, training with cards, we study in that? To hear the intuition. To make in life the correct decision!
And for this purpose we need all over again to learn to distinguish the truth and lie.
At you in hands of a card(map). Ask mentally: what she(it) colors, and on a card(map) do not look. Your problem(task) now to find the answer inside itself.
What color? What speaks feeling? Inside you any feeling - áàìññ! - speaks: "white"! And the second speaks: and can, black, à-à? Your problem(task): one percent of attention direct on a card(map), 99 % of attention direct where? On intuition? Yes not åò! Not on intuition, äóðàëåè! On introspection!
On introspection!
Your problem(task) first of all to find and put on a place of your liar and your true feeling. To catch and remember each of these sensations!
Now, open a card(map). Check up. Well?
If have found a card(map) correctly - not be pleased!
If it is wrong - not ïå÷àëüòåñü!
We Study quietly, not hurrying up. In the beginning, when still it is difficult to distinguish the necessary feeling, work can go not so quickly.
Though if you will try to work with various speed be convinced: the faster, the more easy. Usually and it happens. But all the same all individually so listen to itself better!
It - training. We are not engaged in guessing of cards(maps), fortunetellers you unfortunate! We are engaged - attention! - introspection!
The Eye to not close! In a somnambulistic trance to not run and the more so to not snore!
Present, that you have come on negotiations, it is necessary to make a decision. Suddenly you roll up eyes, the jaw droops, the lifeless body of half an hour rolls in an armchair, and a set of false teeth on a floor. Then you open eyes and inform: " Yes, I agree to sign the contract ".
And who after that will concern you?
Further.
At beginning(starting) in the beginning the information goes, as a rule, in the kind turned.
The Child when is born, first two weeks sees all head over heels. You know it? And when it(he) slightly will grow up, his(its) perception(recognition) becomes normal. Precisely as also your intuition. This party(side) take into account.
Now we shall look at law of behaviour. You have found one card(map) correctly. Then another. Then were mistaken. Again were mistaken. And further you any more would not like.
At the average unexercised person the intuitive, correct decision comes only on an instant. And then forward the interesting situation leaves. He(it) has a stupor.
Something inside speaks: " I am Afraid to be mistaken ". And than to be mistaken, you will be better to sit completely in what?.. In it.
Stop! The prevention(warning)!
If suddenly you will hear, God forbid, or in general any voices will start something to prompt any internal voice to you, advice(councils) to give, supervise over you and so forth - immediately to the psychiatrist! Your voices to employment(occupations) have no any attitude(relation)!
It Is necessary "to listen" to feelings, clearly?!
Your answers will come as words, as ïîêàëûâàíèé in ïÿòêàõ or ùåêîòêè under ìûøêàìè, and as feeling, as an emotional pulse!
About, My God! Well as it to tell slow verbal language?!
I Assure you, you too can not find exact words for the sensations when at you the intuition will open. They only very conditionally can be equated to ours "yes" and "is not present", ""well and badly(""poorly"), "white" and black ".
And then at you such sensation will appear, that the same feeling that speaks the truth tells lies. It îáìàííîå feeling. It happens only at beginning(starting). In due course you will know precisely color of a card(map). The main thing: to distinguish and remember that feeling which is not mistaken which speaks the truth.
When you already more or have less learned to hear this feeling, shortly you will leave on a level ninety of hundred or hundred of hundred. Here the big mind(wit) it is not necessary. That at us with you is, will suffice, that is mind(wit) just here it is completely not necessary.
It is necessary for us to learn to distinguish logic mind(wit) from intuition. And this "mind("wit") temporarily to disconnect, having directed all attention to feelings. Only!
And when you learn to feel and distinguish the feelings in another way will start to distinguish and ideas. You will distinguish the ideas from ideas of other people. You will start to read ideas of other people. You will know simply are ideas not yours, and consequently, other person.
Then you will be ready to go in the first class.
Want Further? Well, my dear, you want all and at once! In the beginning learn to distinguish the ideas from rumbling in a stomach, have agreed?..

Who from you wants, that during ïîëó÷àñà trainings at you all each time turned out better, better and better? That with each pass to you all was easier, easier, easier... To not guess - to feel! Who wants? Lift hands!
And now, if you so really want, now, please, postpone the book and start to be wrung out from a floor. Now you will see the desire in operation.
And well, all on a floor also we are wrung out!
Ðà-àç - one card(map) have opened. Two - and. Have gone! Three - and. Couples - yre. And in ñòîïî÷êå thirty cards(maps). Ïÿ-ÿòü. SHe-is...
You have desire that each time it was easier, easier, easier to you to be wrung out? You have desire, and muscles get tired! Have gone! Ñå-åìü. In - osem'. Nine, ten. Enough? We rise! Thank.
What have received? You have noticed, that with everyone îòæèìàíèåì... It becomes easier? Or muscles get tired?
Training muscles and training of intuition - same.
Means, with each repetition the nervous system starts to get tired. There will be a desire to stop exercise to distract. The sensation of boredom will appear.
What is the training loading?
Lift, say, a bar. Time have lifted, two have lifted. There comes any moment - further already forces are not present! Also what to do(make)? Here also it is necessary to go through I "do not want". To force itself once again five to lift weight. From it there is an advantage(a benefit)!
Who was engaged in sports, will understand, about what I speak! Who was not engaged, get acquainted, please, to essence of physical exercises and training loadings.
This mechanism remember! Right now, when in cards(maps) be engaged.
And what such boredom? This resistance your unexercised ýïèôèçà. This internal unconscious resistance which all your unexercised life renders to self-knowledge, to any change, any toilful work.
Present, at dark night of you suddenly awake and speak: " And well, âñòàâàé! To plough it is time! ". And so each night. Well, to run away it would be desirable, the truth? If at once a muzzle the emb, certainly, is impossible for this idiot.
And if you to yourselves arrange it? The muzzle it is a pity! But to run away from itself it is impossible, though you it and do(make) all life.
Therefore give, as Õîäæà Íàñðåääèí.

Õîäæà Íàñðåääèí calls the son, gives a jug and speaks:
- Ñûíîê, in êîëîäöå water rotten, for the visitor bring waters from a spring.
Only the son leaves, Õîäæà shouts:
- wait, wait, return!
Boxs it(him) ears:
- not ðàçáåé!
The visitor speaks:
- Õîäæà, at you bad customs. I give the children a clip when they have already broken a jug.
- about, my native, what advantage(benefit) of your clip if the jug is already broken?


When I force you to be wrung out beforehand I act as Õîäæà Íàñðåääèí.
Some íîþò: " Îé-îé-îé! In the beginning it receive - ilos' from me, and now »not îëó÷à-àåòñÿ... ". To be wrung out five - six times at you too it has turned out. And it would be desirable to look, that will turn out on hundred sixth time...
Means, training loading!

So, you will start to train. Through any time necessarily there is a desire a little bit to distract, have a rest, have a bite, take a walk.
You will find one thousand urgent matters and one thousand very important circumstances why right now it is not necessary for you - yes it is simply impossible - to work with cards(maps) further.
Here you itself also force, from it there will be an advantage(a benefit)! If only for the sake of curiosity: time a card(map), two card(map), three - from it to use will not be. It is necessary õîðîøåíüêî to work. Have agreed?
Now we with you have got acquainted with the safety precautions that you on an equal place have not invented to yourselves an inferiority complex.

For what purpose we with you train? To develop intuition? To wake a prediction? "To disconnect" reason? Lovely ladies I ask to not worry - at you "to disconnect" there is nothing because at you it(him) in general is not present. So to you already it is easier, you halfway to success!
And if it is serious, in what our ultimate goal?
To define(determine) inside itself the greatest deceiver who drives you for a nose and directs to lifes on a false way. This mysterious deceiver - many your ideas and imaginations.
You think, what you think? You are mistaken, my dear! Actually it is your ideas think you!
Your ideas of you have and more often deceive And feelings do not deceive never, only them it is necessary to learn to listen correctly. If feel, that this salty, means, this salty. If feel sweet - sweet.
Our feelings know all.
All of us with you know how be in this case, as in the friend... All of us know how be rich, how be healthy, how be happy, how to bring up children. We know all! But when business concerns practice, acceptance of decisions - it turns out "as always".

It is important for us to learn to distinguish the true information which our brain, all our organism receives from the past, the present and the future, from these hallucinations, from an own invention. It is cape you now we treat.


P.S. You think, Íîðáåêîâ to you all has told? As! Hold a pocket more widely! Anything it(he) not has told you. And we shall not tell!

And now the following. Where to you to put woken up intuition?
She(it) needs to be applied, used in life! You frequently go in the underground? The escalator upward creeps, and you just approach to it(him).
Know, there on each fifth step number is written? To you excellent(different) training: what number will creep out before you? On what step to you to stand? Why to not be trained and not define(determine)? Literally do not understand. Simply I wanted to tell, that cards(maps) - not unique "simulator". The best simulator is life.
For example, you vote on road, catch the machine. At this moment try to foresee, by what machine you will go. What she(it) will be colors, what mark? And so on.
Simply a little bit try to outstrip all time events "to look" in the near future: " Àó! Who there? ".
What now will take place? Who will come? What will tell?
And each day force itself to be pleased to that will train tomorrow and in other days. It is a key!
If will force itself to be engaged, as the person, slowly âëåçàþùèé in ice water, in some weeks
Necessarily will throw employment(occupations). Forces will not suffice to overcome laziness - the monster whom have created, forcing itself!
And you will see, how your life will change. You for some reason even more often will start to appear in necessary time in the necessary place. Transport will come in time - and not only transport.
People necessary to you, suddenly will appear without any your request. And those who to you not so is to be seen, somehow themselves will disappear from your life.
And sometimes you will catch up with yourselves. How it?
And so: suddenly will start to notice, that speak or do(make) something that did not assume. Suddenly will find out itself speaking something not that or working somehow not so. Be not frightened! Simply your intuition waking up starts to outstrip consciousness.
The Consciousness only has applied(put) a thoughtful finger on a forehead, going to consider the following word, and intuition - time! - both has already expressed. Also has hit the nail. She(it) is not able to miss at all.
Still will be that. You try to avoid dangers? This is natural! Now your intuition will warn you.
If real danger will appear, you necessarily will notice in yourselves any discomfort, strange pulling feeling, weight - unwillingness to go there where dangerously, or to meet from whom danger can proceed.
I shall Tell more. Now dangers will avoid you if, certainly, you not begin to arise on them.
Know, when the intuition starts to work, will arise such strange, but very pleasant sensation, that life reacts to your desires. She(it) resounds, responds to you, there is a sensation of reciprocity, as if at you with life the novel and you give each other all tenderness, all caress... It - love!

That post... was too long to read. And a little confusing, what i did read. Oh well.

All I can say is that, yes, there's no proof that psi powers exist, but then again, there isn't proof that they don't. Telikinisis, if it exists is hard, and i think anything like that requires dedication, training, and the full belief that it is possible. If you're a skeptic about it, it's not going to happen, since it is a power of the mind.

By all accounts I am a skeptic. I really don't believe in any psychic phenomenon, but it isn't for lack of trying. I really want to believe. I do.

No, you are not a skeptic. Skeptics don't 'believe' or 'want to believe' anything. Furthermore, the whole part about attempting telekinesis is under the assumption that you KNOW how to in the first place.

Example: I think that if I think a certain way I can move something.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out some silliness.

Originally posted by and2000x
Example: I think that if I think a certain way I can move something.
Yes, if you think a certain way you can move objects, stop running water, levitate, etc... Only one must first learn this way of thinking.

BTW, spoilsport, how did you try training telikinesis?


Thanx

Bratok:

Long citations are useless: You name ANY idea, no matter how preposterous, and I will be able to find websites promoting it at great length, citing "scientific evidence" "experimental proof" etc.

Long accounts of your own experiements made in private are uninteresting: You can find people claiming ANYTHING.

PROOF is what counts. That is why I have suggested the JREF challenge. The million dollars are not important (although I refuse to belive that you would turn them down if you actually gould get them), what is important is an objective experiment: If you have an unkown ability, you owe it to humanity to document it. Anything else would be like somebody inventing a vaccine for AIDS and keeping it to himself.

Hans

Edited for a silly spelling misteak.

PROOF is what counts. That is why I have suggested the JREF challenge. The million dollars are not important (although I refuse to belive that you would turn them down if you actually gould get them), what is important is an objective experiment: If you have an unkown ability, you ove it to humanity to document it. Anything else would be like somebody inventing a vaccine for AIDS and keeping it to himself.
Ok, but yet 8 cards out of 16 is a bit too early to take any kind of a challenge... maybe after that classes, when it'll be 16 out of 16.
As for vaccine from AIDS, there are exercises by which one can cure ANY desease, I'm serios. Only there he should work long and hard himself, instead of takeing a shot or a pill...


Good Luck!

Tell me, is there anything you do NOT believe?

Hans

No, you are not a skeptic. Skeptics don't 'believe' or 'want to believe' anything. Furthermore, the whole part about attempting telekinesis is under the assumption that you KNOW how to in the first place.

Example: I think that if I think a certain way I can move something.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out some silliness.

Wrong.

I fit into definition 2a in merriam webster's entry for skepticism.

2 a : the doctrine that true knowledge or knowledge in a particular area is uncertain

I feel that knowledge in the area of telekinesis is uncertain and unproven. I want to believe in it, but I can't because I can't find the evidence. That is skepticism according to the English language's most popular dictionary. Hint: It is handy to read the dictionary before arguing definitions with somebody.

Attempting telekinesis is not assuming I know how to do it either. I read advise at "psychic" web sites and put to practice the methods they claimed could be used in telekinesis. These methods got no results. That means there are two possibilities. Either I didn't practice the methods correctly, or they don't actually work in telekinesis. I moved on.

BTW, spoilsport, how did you try training telikinesis?

I tried a few different practices.

Method 1:
Meditate 15 minutes to an hour.
Use a small pinwheel (square piece of paper sitting on tip of a pin).
Focus on the pinwheel and move it with your mind.

I tried moving the paper by pushing with concentration (gave me a headache).

I tried imagining the pinwheel moving, it didn't.

I pictured a hand coming out of my head and pushing it.

I tried to form energy in my brain and shoot it at the pinwheel.

None of those did anything.

Method 2:

Meditate 15 minutes to an hour.
Sit a smooth ring upright on the table.
Try to roll it with your mind.

I tried the same stuff, no go.

Method 3:
Meditate 15 minutes to an hour.
Hold a metal spoon in your hand.
Close your eyes and bend the spoon with your mind.

I couldn't do that either.

I probably practiced these things regularly for around three months. No good. After that I put that practice time into guitar which has paid off far more tremendously.

I tried a few different practices...
Well... I do believe that telikinesis is a more-or-less hard thing to do, so you should have better started with something easier. Same intuition training, for example.

How exactly were you meditating? Just seating with your eyes closes, trying to get into a different state of mind? Looking at a drawn spiral? Useing some hypnotic tapes?

Here's another method ( I have not tried it, just heard a bit of it )...
Some Yogas can move a certain kind of probe out of their solar planux. They seat with their eyes closed and imagine this probe moveing out. Of cource, it doesn't appear phicially, but they can "touch" objects within their reach and describe them.

An everyday person, at first, probably would be able to move this probe out only for an inch or two, but with practice it can get longer and longer. Maybe one also would be able to move small object with it, after practice.


Good Luck!

Well... I do believe that telikinesis is a more-or-less hard thing to do, so you should have better started with something easier. Same intuition training, for example.

Other abilities don't have the verifiability that I seek. People, including myself, can say it was a coincidence, chance, etc. There is a very small chance of winning the lottery, but some people have managed to win twice.

Telekinesis is irrefutable. It defies physical laws as we know them. Therefore true telekinetic abilities are much more meaningful.

How exactly were you meditating? Just seating with your eyes closes, trying to get into a different state of mind? Looking at a drawn spiral? Useing some hypnotic tapes?

Seated on the floor. Eyes closed. I would completely clear my mind and think of nothing. When I had my mind clear as long as possible I would imagine myself drawing energy in from the air and the ground.

Some Yogas can move a certain kind of probe out of their solar planux. They seat with their eyes closed and imagine this probe moveing out. Of cource, it doesn't appear phicially, but they can "touch" objects within their reach and describe them.

I have no idea what to do with that information without having someone tell me how to do it. Anyways, I might try the intution thing. Who knows?

I read something a long time ago...something about a doctor saying he'd cut open a lot of human bodies and he'd never seen a soul, and the 'philosopher' replied, "and did you never see a thought either?"

Meditation is NOT something to be taken lightly. I do not meditate myself, but I have seen documentaries of Tibetan monks who can chagne their body temperature just by thiking about it! They went out into below zero temps and actually slept out in the snow and woke up the next morning. They then put wet towels on their backs and made them steam dry just with their minds!
Another guy was able to smash bricks over his head!

Amazing stuff! Our civilization has a lot to catch up on physical/mental fitness wise.

Originally posted by and2000x
...Tibetan monks who can chagne their body temperature just by thiking about it!
That's very easy, everyone can do it more or less. The exercises I was talking abot above are based on this idea - creating a warm feeling somewhere in your body and moveing it around, then a cold feeling. Just make sure you do NOT touch the heart or the brain!

Originally posted by spoilsport
[B]Wrong.

I fit into definition 2a in merriam webster's entry for skepticism.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 a : the doctrine that true knowledge or knowledge in a particular area is uncertain
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Now go look up the definition of 'doctrine';

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=doctrine

1. A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma.
2. A rule or principle of law, especially when established by precedent.
3. A statement of official government policy, especially in foreign affairs and military strategy.
4. Archaic. Something taught; a teaching.

None of the definitions of 'doctrine' are appropriate to ellucidate the meaning of the word 'skeptic'. Skepticism is a 'belief'? RIDICULOUS. I'll be emailing Websters to get their definition corrected. Don't use Websters, it's for stupid people.

A far superior definition of skeptic is;

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=skeptic

phlogistician, you may not like webster's dictionary, but it is the most widely used dictionary. As such it is a kind of unofficial standard. Generally speaking, the definition of a word is that which is listed in webster's dictionary. Does it change a little too slowly to keep up with the English language? Sure, but you have to a have a standard and it is as good as any. Throwing out webster's in favor of another dictionary still leaves us with the fact that dictionaries are imperfect way of knowing what every word means.

Dictionaries give usages, not definitions.

Originally posted by spoilsport
phlogistician, you may not like webster's dictionary, but it is the most widely used dictionary. As such it is a kind of unofficial standard. Generally speaking, the definition of a word is that which is listed in webster's dictionary.

Is it so hard for you to actually think about the meanings of words?

To use a word like 'doctrine' in conjunction with a word like 'skepticism' is just wrong. Websters sucks, plain and simple.

Websters is held in very _low_ regard amongst anyone with any real language skills, it's not a standard, but rather, the lowest common denominator.

Originally posted by James R
Dictionaries give usages, not definitions.

I worked at the University where this guy;

http://www.askoxford.com/worldofwords/worddetectives/newwords/newwordsdict/

got his PhD. He was a friend of mine, as it happens.

He uses the word 'definition' and that's good enough for me, considering refreshing the OED is his job.

I am a little skeptical of this skeptical thing.:confused: