http://www.news.com.au///common/imagedata/0,,5200788,00.jpg
http://www.news.com.au///common/imagedata/0,,5200790,00.jpg http://www.news.com.au///common/imagedata/0,,5200791,00.jpg http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html Photos that damn Hezbollah THIS is the picture that damns Hezbollah. It is one of several, smuggled from behind Lebanon's battle lines, showing that Hezbollah is waging war amid suburbia. The images, obtained exclusively by the Sunday Herald Sun, show Hezbollah using high-density residential areas as launch pads for rockets and heavy-calibre weapons. Dressed in civilian clothing so they can quickly disappear, the militants carrying automatic assault rifles and ride in on trucks mounted with cannon.The photographs, from the Christian area of Wadi Chahrour in the east of Beirut, were taken by a visiting journalist and smuggled out by a friend.

More (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html)

I don't see any photos of Hezbollah "waging war amid suburbia". Here, we have some photos of guys riding around in trucks with guns. Where are the photos of the rocket launch pads they mention? As for their clothing, Hebollah is not a state army. You wouldn't expect uniforms, would you?

yes we know they hide amongst the civilians.

Well if they are wearing civilians clothes people are going to have to modify the 'civilian' death count.

yes we know they hide amongst the civilians.

They are the civilians.

- N

http://www.paulreverehouse.org/images/virtualimages/boat.jpg

Just look at these dirty terrorists, jeopardizing their human shields in Boston. The Israelis would have known how to deal with these scum: Shell their families into hamburger.

I know it sounds harsh, But Lebanon deserves to be Bombed!!

...yet you would offer that Israel does not. Brilliant, Vega.

There is no remedy for this insanity through bombings by anyone.

I don't see any photos of Hezbollah "waging war amid suburbia". Here, we have some photos of guys riding around in trucks with guns.

Not only that, but those are anti-aircraft guns.

Israel propagandists are known to hit online forums. (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,174-2289232,00.html)

Can I just start off by quoting someone (forgot who). "Millitary intelligence is a contradiction of terms" That quote hits the nail on the head! When will the Israeli's who declared war realise that, fighting a battle against GUERILLA forces who know the streets better than them, is a hopeless task?

It's effectively the same situation in Iraq AND the war in Vietnam all those years ago. Except Israel's backed by America and Hezbollah are backed by Iran.

I believe BOTH parties are to blame, the Hezbollah and the Israeli's. May I just point out that by "israeli's" I mean those that wanted the war, not those who condemn it.

The reason Hezbollah were voted for in the first place was because they had the guts to stand up and fight for the freedom of Palestine and then Israeli soldiers say: "Hey! Your not supposed to fight back! What happened to the little children with rocks we used to slaughte--errr battle back before? Your not supposed to have rockets and guns! We are going to call out Bitches uhh....allies the Americans to brownnose us and tell us we are ALWAYS right! Besides, if they complain all we have to do is mention genocide and they would do anything for us!"

At the moment I have a rather hostile and disgusted atittude towards the Americans that support this war and the Israeli's. The reason mostly being that many powerfull political figures are Jewish which gives the Israeli's a very unfair advantage. I believe Bush's word should count for nothing (especially due to the scandal of him having one of his relations fixing the vote). I'm also disgusted with Blair and all the others who let themselves act as airports for American air support.

I will finally rant about the general unfairness that faces Palestinians, ever since WW2 the Jews have milked the guiltiness of the Americans over and over. American1: "Hey I feel mighty sorry that you were hunted like dogs, here, lets grab some of that Palestinian land you want and just hand it over to you. Don't worry about the Palestinians, we'll shut them up somehow."

Here's one from Condoleezza Rice: "The Israeli's have a right to self-defence" Uhh...didn't you Israeli's declare war in the first place? The Israeli's even hit a UN station with A PRECISION MISSILE killing 4 people inside and still they get away with an apology and statement saying "We did not mean to hit that building" (or words to that effect) Give me a break! How can you not mean to hit a target with a missile that targets what you point it at? A SPECIFIC AREA?!

Still the fighting carries on, even with the cease-fire (that lasted about 2 hours that the Israeli's both made AND broke, what a record!). With both sides as stubbon and dense as the other I can see no hope in hell (though I am an athiest) for my fondest wish of World peace being granted.

Makes me almost understand Emo's and Goth's for their depression, the World is a place ruled by Madness...and Bush :( :( :(

Rant over

At the moment I have a rather hostile and disgusted atittude towards the Americans that support this war.

Dunno about hostile, but I disagree with 'em.

You know it's the anniversary of us nuking Hiroshima? 30,000 Japanese babies turned into paper thin ash, and another 190,000 people.

Remember democracy is "freedom." Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Can I just start off by quoting someone (forgot who). "Millitary intelligence is a contradiction of terms" That quote hits the nail on the head! When will the Israeli's who declared war realise that, fighting a battle against GUERILLA forces who know the streets better than them, is a hopeless task?

It's effectively the same situation in Iraq AND the war in Vietnam all those years ago. Except Israel's backed by America and Hezbollah are backed by Iran.

I believe BOTH parties are to blame, the Hezbollah and the Israeli's. May I just point out that by "israeli's" I mean those that wanted the war, not those who condemn it.

The reason Hezbollah were voted for in the first place was because they had the guts to stand up and fight for the freedom of Palestine and then Israeli soldiers say: "Hey! Your not supposed to fight back! What happened to the little children with rocks we used to slaughte--errr battle back before? Your not supposed to have rockets and guns! We are going to call out Bitches uhh....allies the Americans to brownnose us and tell us we are ALWAYS right! Besides, if they complain all we have to do is mention genocide and they would do anything for us!"

At the moment I have a rather hostile and disgusted atittude towards the Americans that support this war and the Israeli's. The reason mostly being that many powerfull political figures are Jewish which gives the Israeli's a very unfair advantage. I believe Bush's word should count for nothing (especially due to the scandal of him having one of his relations fixing the vote). I'm also disgusted with Blair and all the others who let themselves act as airports for American air support.

I will finally rant about the general unfairness that faces Palestinians, ever since WW2 the Jews have milked the guiltiness of the Americans over and over. American1: "Hey I feel mighty sorry that you were hunted like dogs, here, lets grab some of that Palestinian land you want and just hand it over to you. Don't worry about the Palestinians, we'll shut them up somehow."

Here's one from Condoleezza Rice: "The Israeli's have a right to self-defence" Uhh...didn't you Israeli's declare war in the first place? The Israeli's even hit a UN station with A PRECISION MISSILE killing 4 people inside and still they get away with an apology and statement saying "We did not mean to hit that building" (or words to that effect) Give me a break! How can you not mean to hit a target with a missile that targets what you point it at? A SPECIFIC AREA?!

Still the fighting carries on, even with the cease-fire (that lasted about 2 hours that the Israeli's both made AND broke, what a record!). With both sides as stubbon and dense as the other I can see no hope in hell (though I am an athiest) for my fondest wish of World peace being granted.

Makes me almost understand Emo's and Goth's for their depression, the World is a place ruled by Madness...and Bush :( :( :(

Rant over

all of this post and you still managed to miss the point - israel didn't start the war.

Noooooo!!! Israel didn;t start the war! It was actually the Easter Bunny! :eek:

:rolleyes:

Proof of Hezbollah (and no one else) Terrorists Crimes on their "civilians"...
And here is proof of the US (an no one else) terrorist crims on their "civilians"!

http://fixco1.com/xbush911.jpg
http://fixco1.com/bush911.html

:eek:

:rolleyes:

I know it sounds harsh, But Lebanon deserves to be Bombed!!
Woohoo, another one for my ignore list.

Have I missed the point? Who began the war? Was there even a declaration of war in the first place?

FARID ABBOUD, Ambassador, Lebanon: "We did not declare any war. It was declared on us when our country was occupied by the Israelis, when prisoners were taken from Lebanon into Israel, and when Palestinian refugees were pushed inside Lebanon."

Is an "act of war" significantly different from declaring it? Was the point of who started the war the only reason I wanted to have a small rant? Nope :(

Farid's quote from this website: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec06/israel_07-12.html

My point was on how bad BOTH sides were and how unlikely peace is.

http://www.news.com.au///common/imagedata/0,,5200788,00.jpg
http://www.news.com.au///common/imagedata/0,,5200790,00.jpg http://www.news.com.au///common/imagedata/0,,5200791,00.jpg http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html Photos that damn Hezbollah THIS is the picture that damns Hezbollah. It is one of several, smuggled from behind Lebanon's battle lines, showing that Hezbollah is waging war amid suburbia. The images, obtained exclusively by the Sunday Herald Sun, show Hezbollah using high-density residential areas as launch pads for rockets and heavy-calibre weapons. Dressed in civilian clothing so they can quickly disappear, the militants carrying automatic assault rifles and ride in on trucks mounted with cannon.The photographs, from the Christian area of Wadi Chahrour in the east of Beirut, were taken by a visiting journalist and smuggled out by a friend.

More (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html)



Kiwi, i hope you and your family are in good health


I just love these pictures which have been actually posted in another thread.

Kiwi come on man, you must be able to do better than this.
where are the multi rocket launchers? all i see is a dude on a hill top with a gun and a couple of other shots with some other dudes on a truck with an anti-aircraft gun.

In england if i could be bothered i could photo some dude on top of a hill top or in a town with a gun.

secondly as israel started bombing towns and cities from the on-set of this latest disaster to hit lebanon don't you think it would be wise to have a few anti-aircraft guns around to try (admittedly in vein as these guns are no match for the israeli military might)and protect the civilan lives, property and infastructure.

i really dont see what these pictures prove at all.

katana, thank you for your post

[B]Proof of Hezbollah (and no one else) Terrorists Crimes on their "civilians"...

Tell me TruthSeeker, what color is the sky in your World?

I really do feel sorry for you and your fellow "9-11 was an inside job" cultists.....do you really feel the need to belong to such an "exclusive" club, that you would go to such lengths as to join a group of people with such warped beliefs?

Oh well - if it makes you feel special and like you belong (god knows people like you need to be a part of some social group) :(

i really dont see what these pictures prove at all.

these might explain the high amount of civilian casualties. as you may have noticed, they don't wear uniforms and it becomes much more difficult to differentiate between who's a civilian and who is a soldier.

Tell me TruthSeeker, what color is the sky in your World?

I really do feel sorry for you and your fellow "9-11 was an inside job" cultists.....do you really feel the need to belong to such an "exclusive" club, that you would go to such lengths as to join a group of people with such warped beliefs?

Oh well - if it makes you feel special and like you belong (god knows people like you need to be a part of some social group) :(
That wasn't my point. My point was obvious. It was a reductio ad absurdium to the argument of the thread started. He used the pictures of some soldiers to "prove" something. I used a 9/11 picture to "prove" something as well. I did exactly what he did, which is a very foolish and illogical thing to do.

I would adivise you to go and study some fallacies and learn to read what people are saying better...

these might explain the high amount of civilian casualties. as you may have noticed, they don't wear uniforms and it becomes much more difficult to differentiate between who's a civilian and who is a soldier.
So civilians also carry weapons and kill people there?

Kiwi, if this to you is "Proof" then I really hope your not in the legal profession.

Interesting that not one demonstration was scheduled for Huzbollah Islamic terrorists murdering and injuring intentionally the Israeli Arabs yesterday in Haifa.

Burn Israel Burn! Long Live Hezbollah!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/747042.html

Reservists failed to take cover after siren

By Amos Harel, Eli Ashkenazi and Amiram Barkat

Twelve Israel Defense Forces reservists were killed by a Katyusha rocket yesterday near the entrance to Kibbutz Kfar Giladi, close to the Lebanese border, in the deadliest attack on Israelis since the fighting with Hezbollah began on July 12.

At least five others were wounded, one seriously, hospital officials said. The rocket hit an area where logistics and headquarters officials from the reserve paratroopers battalion, which was recently called up, were stationed.

Hmm, IDF reservists are killed in a rocket attack.

But stop the press! Zionist filth keeps repeating that Hezbollah are terrorists, because they target civilians in their rocket attacks. How can this be true, if they seem to be wiping out quite a few IDF reservists?
Sure, there is collateral damage. But Hezbollah did warn the Israelis that they would fire rockets into those areas. The civilians should have left, right? Since Hezbollah warned them, its their own fault for being in the blast range of a rocket, right?

Also, why do IDF reservists feel the need to hide behind civilians? Why can't they just line up along the buffer zone to be shot down by Hezbollah? Are they cowardly terrorists?

Soon The Wrath Of Their Impenfing Doom Is Close At Hand.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/747042.html

Hmm, IDF reservists are killed in a rocket attack.

But stop the press! Zionist filth keeps repeating that Hezbollah are terrorists, because they target civilians in their rocket attacks. How can this be true, if they seem to be wiping out quite a few IDF reservists?
Sure, there is collateral damage. But Hezbollah did warn the Israelis that they would fire rockets into those areas. The civilians should have left, right? Since Hezbollah warned them, its their own fault for being in the blast range of a rocket, right?

Also, why do IDF reservists feel the need to hide behind civilians? Why can't they just line up along the buffer zone to be shot down by Hezbollah? Are they cowardly terrorists?
Remember, the Jews are the Chosen People. More valuable than any other kind. Everyone else is expendable.

these might explain the high amount of civilian casualties. as you may have noticed, they don't wear uniforms and it becomes much more difficult to differentiate between who's a civilian and who is a soldier.

What, civilians aren't allowed to defend their homes from an invading force that has bombed their country to hell? You think Hezbollah are the only ones doing any fighting? Remember, the citizen's militia of Lebanon has joined in the fight against Israel. All Lebanese citizens have the right to defend their homeland and none have the right to die from all this.

I'd be so curious as hell to see what kind of propoganda and slant would be given about U.S. citizens if we were invaded by China or someone and we tried to defend our homes. I wonder how the other side would paint us as bad people trying to defend our homes and that our deaths are warranted.

- N

Was there even a declaration of war in the first place?

who needs any kind of declaration to start a war?


FARID ABBOUD, Ambassador, Lebanon: "We did not declare any war. It was declared on us when our country was occupied by the Israelis, when prisoners were taken from Lebanon into Israel, and when Palestinian refugees were pushed inside Lebanon."

he ignores the fact that hizballah can't be controlled and didnt even mention the attack which provoked israel. also, i didn't understand what was he talking about when he said 'occupied by the israelis', because i thought israel pulled out its forces from south lebanon in 2000. is he talking about the first war ('83) ?

So civilians also carry weapons and kill people there?
no. well at least i don't think so.
but maybe members of hizballah are wearing civilian clothing and taking refuge within civilian buildings when they fire their rockets. and when they are killed they are counted as civilians. could be?

no. well at least i don't think so.
but maybe members of hizballah are wearing civilian clothing and taking refuge within civilian buildings when they fire their rockets. and when they are killed they are counted as civilians. could be?
Dressing in a uniform wouldn't be a good idea would it?? The south of Lebanon is Shia muslim. Like the party they elected, Hezbollah. They are fighting together or the zionists would have had this under control long ago.

no. well at least i don't think so.
but maybe members of hizballah are wearing civilian clothing and taking refuge within civilian buildings when they fire their rockets. and when they are killed they are counted as civilians. could be?
Or maybe the civilians themselves are fighting against the opressing army of Israel? :rolleyes:

these might explain the high amount of civilian casualties. as you may have noticed, they don't wear uniforms and it becomes much more difficult to differentiate between who's a civilian and who is a soldier.

aaa Goodmorning

These guys with the antiaircraft guns are their to try and defend the towns, ok they dont have uniforms but i assume that if a Anti aircraft gun was destroyed then the crew on the truck were militia men, or perhaps some sort of home guard reservists. I suppose the womeen and children are gurillas also.

Dressing in a uniform wouldn't be a good idea would it??

why not ? if they are holding weapons then they are fighters, and that would make them targets anyway. the reason why they don't is because it helps them to take cover among the civilian population.


The south of Lebanon is Shia muslim. Like the party they elected, Hezbollah. They are fighting together or the zionists would have had this under control long ago.
fighting together to achieve what?

why not ? if they are holding weapons then they are fighters, and that would make them targets anyway. the reason why they don't is because it helps them to take cover among the civilian population.


fighting together to achieve what?
So uniformed freedom fighters against the US military at the hands of zionists? Hmm. There is no level playing field here. One side is a superpower, the other is a small group of rebels with a legal representation in the Lebanese government. It's a people's war. Do you not believe Shia all over the planet now are supportive of Hezbollah? Fighting to achieve freedom from jewish occupation, invasion and ethnic cleansing. Worth fighting for even if all you have are low grade rockets and some IED's.

Or maybe the civilians themselves are fighting against the opressing army of Israel? :rolleyes:
if so, then israel has a green light to kill all of those who were involved in combat. that means not all the civilian casualties in lebanon were innocent, and that was my point. thank you for making it so obvious. :D

So uniformed freedom fighters against the US military at the hands of zionists? Hmm. There is no level playing field here. One side is a superpower, the other is a small group of rebels with a legal representation in the Lebanese government. It's a people's war. Do you not believe Shia all over the planet now are supportive of Hezbollah? Fighting to achieve freedom from jewish occupation, invasion and ethnic cleansing. Worth fighting for even if all you have are low grade rockets and some IED's.
perhaps you're right, but i don't understand the part of "occupation, invasion and ethnic cleansing". what part of lebanon does israel hold or "occupy"?

perhaps you're right, but i don't understand the part of "occupation, invasion and ethnic cleansing". what part of lebanon does israel hold or "occupy"?
Between 1982 and 1990 the Israelis occupied everything up to downtown Beirut. Now they occupy everything south of the Litani River, oil filled Lebanese waters and they will take more.

Genji, palestinian butchers headed by PLO have attacked Israel in 1982 from Lebanon, after they have destroyed any harmony between Christians and Muslims, Do you know that th Shiites have greeted the Zionists in 1982 with flowers at first?

Between 1982 and 1990 the Israelis occupied everything up to downtown Beirut.

but they've given back EVERYTHING in 2000, more than six years ago.


Now they occupy everything south of the Litani River, oil filled Lebanese waters and they will take more.
as the only solution to stop hizballah. hizballah has been attacking israel with rockets and kidnappings for the past six years. why? there was no occupation to excuse the attacks.

aaa, yea, but they were still breathing, a afront to all the Hezbullah, how dare they breath the same air.

if so, then israel has a green light to kill all of those who were involved in combat. that means not all the civilian casualties in lebanon were innocent, and that was my point. thank you for making it so obvious. :D
So civilians are defending themselves against an offensive military and you say the offensive military is innocent and the civilians are evil and war criminals? :rolleyes:

So civilians are defending themselves against an offensive military and you say the offensive military is innocent and the civilians are evil and war criminals? :rolleyes:
no. that's not what i'm trying to say. just go back to the first post and read it again.

So civilians are defending themselves against an offensive military and you say the offensive military is innocent and the civilians are evil and war criminals? :rolleyes:

They are all using the new American dictionary; the one who invades is innocent, the one who retaliates against the invasion is a terrorist.

No, I have to disagree with you Sam, by your definition the first person to start the fight is innocent, and it was Hezbullah who started this, and they have admitted this, I have posted the statement, and you can find them.

No, I have to disagree with you Sam, by your definition the first person to start the fight is innocent, and it was Hezbullah who started this, and they have admitted this, I have posted the statement, and you can find them.
hey buffalo,

i hope all is good.

i think what sam meant was invade. hezbollah did not Invade Israel.

They would have if they could have. They did not invade israel not because they have morals or respect for israel.

It is because Israel guards their border rather well and hezbollah doesnt have the man power and weaponry to invade israel.

They provoked israel now hezbollah and their supporters suffer death/invasion so israel can keep its people safe.

Do you believe that the people of Israel are now safe?

Will they be safe any way? when did the suicide bombers ever stop?, when did the Quasams ever stop? when did the Arabs ever honor a cease firer and finally sign a peace treaty, what I have observed in the news is that no matter what the Israelis have done their people always end up being killed, and that the terrorist will never be satisfied even when all the Israeli are dead even their children, and then who will they turn their anger on for their own self failure?

This is also a rant.

New way to not answer the question Sam, I have to believe that this is a sign that you have been bested in the discussion?

What discussion? All you did was rant. A discussion involves objective consideration. You talk about people you have dinner with as a basis for Israeli Arabs, friends you had to write letters to their parents about as a basis for Israels disproportionate response, how you are a weary broken soldier as a basis for indiscriminate targeting. And your opinions about the war in Lebanon and your response to the starvation of Palestininans, your confusing Arabs with Muslims, does not give me any high opinion about your objectivity.

I will not waste my time talking to you anymore.

So you are admitting that you have lost,

I will not waste my time talking to you anymore.

This indicates that it is you with the anger, it is the last refuge of a woman who has lost the argument, (I will not waste my time talking to you anymore.) you are giving me a good laugh right now, as this is a statement that I have seen my young niece use when she can't answer a argument with her cousins.

it was Hezbullah who started this, and they have admitted this, I have posted the statement, and you can find them.

Hey, Hezbollah used a "pre-emptive strike" against Israel, within their own borders, therefore they didn't start it, lol.

- N

why is it ok for america to nuke japan twice killing hundreds of thousands of civillians but Hezbollah cannot hide amongst civillians?

War according to the I.H.L. and the Geneva Convention, and other International Treaties that spell out the Legal Concept of allowable combat.

why is it ok for america to nuke japan twice killing hundreds of thousands of civillians but Hezbollah cannot hide amongst civillians?
Hiding among civilians? You mean their own people? Are they to gather at their military bases? They ARE civilians, Shia civilians fighting Israel. Are they to mingle among Catholics? Scientologists? Zookeepers? Of Course they are found among other Shia people's. Where else will they get their support and membership?

I'm sorry I dont quite understand what you mean

WOW ww2 to minor modern combat in the middle east what a horrible comparison. If we had B-2's that could drop satellite guided bombs Im sure we would of used them.


They can hide amongst civilians its a valid tactic but people shouldnt bitch when the inevitable civilian death occurs.

Well comparing Israeli military to that of Hesbollah, it is a valid comparison. Also civillians most likely know of the rocket launchers hidden amongst themselves they could have left that area in a time of combat if they wanted to.

samcdkey:

This is also a rant.

How come when women can't answer a debate they all use the same tactics?

How come when women can't answer a debate they all use the same tactics?

'Answer a debate'? What's that?

War according to the I.H.L. and the Geneva Convention, and other International Treaties that spell out the Legal Concept of allowable combat.
In other words: if someone's policy doesn't favour the US, it's ok to attack that country... :rolleyes:

I couldnt agree more. Perhaps one reason why marijuana isnt 100 percent legal in Canada because uncle Sam says No!

No, the Japanese conducted a surprise attack against the U.S. and a formal war commenced, the Hazbullah are not a country, or a government, and have started a war by mistake against a duly constituted government, and Iraq was in material breach of all the U.N. resolutions of the cease fire from 1991, all of these situation have legal statute behind what was done and what is allowed, plus International Treaty.

Has the US already backpayed what they own the UN? If not let's invade them.

I second that motion. All in favour?

Oh no, wait. The US has special veto rights.... :rolleyes:

The US has special veto rights.............. So did France but America still invaded Iraq

And in the end the U.N. authorized it, France could have vetoed the use of force resolution, as could have several other countries, none did, and the cease fire ended and the state of war was reinstated, and Saddam was defeated.

yes but using a veto is a big thing but not for america. It has many economic and political consequences. In the Iraq war France simply "threatened"(well in political terms) and they were boycotted by many american companies.

america however, can use a veto no problem and no reprecussions are really strong enough to have any effect

How about Russia and China, they seem to do what ever serves their best interests?

why is it ok for america to nuke japan twice killing hundreds of thousands of civillians but Hezbollah cannot hide amongst civillians?

Why because America is powerful and hezbullah is not. And in a few decades when america is no longer a superpower and someone else is, it would also be correct for them to do so. What Hezbullah is doing so is no different to the over 40 countries that the US has directly bombed since WW2. Well actually it is different, as America wasn't occupied for 18 years by those countries and didnt have their borders robbed.

If we had B-2's that could drop satellite guided bombs Im sure we would of used them.


No they wouldn't have. Recent findings are showing that Japan was more then ready to surrender almost immediately. The dropping of the bombs was to scare the shit out of Russia.

Then why Ketsu Go:

The sooner the Americans come, the better...One hundred million die proudly.

- Japanese slogan in the summer of 1945.



OLYMPIC VS KETSU-GO
The Americans expected opposition from 5000 kamikazes, a realistic estimate in keeping with Japanese plans (KETSU-GO Operation). ...
http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/war.term/olympic.html

Then why Ketsu Go:

The sooner the Americans come, the better...One hundred million die proudly.

- Japanese slogan in the summer of 1945.



OLYMPIC VS KETSU-GO
The Americans expected opposition from 5000 kamikazes, a realistic estimate in keeping with Japanese plans (KETSU-GO Operation). ...
http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/war.term/olympic.html

Leaked documents about the japanese surrender came out in the past few years.

Politicians say a lot of things. Listen to george bush! Listen to Hezbullahs threats to Israel and Israels threats to lebanon. Ketsu might not want his country to surrender but he doesn't want a revolution either.

The US has special veto rights.............. So did France but America still invaded Iraq
A small defense against oil-y Arab Muslim giants' hijacking of the "even handed" UN.

Prove that in real time, not PC corrected after the fact history.

No they wouldn't have. Recent findings are showing that Japan was more then ready to surrender almost immediately. The dropping of the bombs was to scare the shit out of Russia.

A small defense against oil-y Arab Muslim giants' hijacking of the "even handed" UN.
hello Kiwi

i would not say a US veto is a small defence at all.

The US has used its veto on many occasions to stop any even handed UN resolutions with regards to Israel. If the resolution is not wieighted in israel's favour then it gets veto'd or threatened to be Veto'd at least oer the last 10-15 years or so anyway

The U.S. has used the veto on it own 57 times, 19 times in conjuction with other countries, the record for Vetos fall to the Russians with 120 Veto's

The Security Council Veto - Global Policy Forum - UN Security Council
Subjects of UN Security Council Vetoes. Source: Data from the United Nations and Sydney D. Bailey and Sam Daws "The Procedure of the UN Security Council", ...
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/membship/veto/vetosubj.htm

http://www.peace.ca/securitycouncilveto.htm

Remember, the Jews are the Chosen People. More valuable than any other kind. Everyone else is expendable.

No, the Jews "were" the chosen people. They lost that right about the time of Jesus. Now they are just chosen for punishment.

No, the Japanese conducted a surprise attack against the U.S. and a formal war commenced, the Hazbullah are not a country, or a government, and have started a war by mistake against a duly constituted government, and Iraq was in material breach of all the U.N. resolutions of the cease fire from 1991, all of these situation have legal statute behind what was done and what is allowed, plus International Treaty.


It’s amazing how people "forget" the things that lead up to the above. Or what I call the Western/Israel mode of selective remembrance.

How come when women can't answer a debate they all use the same tactics?

SAMCDKEY, I'm sure you realize that this person is in love with you! He can't stand not "debating" you. I think it turns him on. Know he sinks to the "women dumb, man smart" approach hoping that will get you to give him one more chance. :D

It’s amazing how people "forget" the things that lead up to the above. Or what I call the Western/Israel mode of selective remembrance.Absolutely correct. What started this Israel/Palestine clash was the confiscation of Palestinian homes to house the European Jews who were streaming into newly created Israel.

One can go back to the creation of Israel, but then the "first cause" blame is on England, but if limited to a choice between Israel and Palestine only, Israel committed the first serious injustice. In either case, the Palestinians were the victims of the first injustice and turned to violence in their anger.

Many of the Palestinians went into Lebnon, and festered in anger till some began to act against Israel. These acts lead Israel to make the first Lebanon invasion, which created Hezbollah - etc. Most supporters of Israel as “sinless” only defending itsselves forget these facts.

SAMCDKEY, I'm sure you realize that this person is in love with you! He can't stand not "debating" you. I think it turns him on. Know he sinks to the "women dumb, man smart" approach hoping that will get you to give him one more chance. :D

I'm 36. Been there, done that, wrote the book, saw the movie. :cool:

The U.S. has used the veto on it own 57 times, 19 times in conjuction with other countries, the record for Vetos fall to the Russians with 120 Veto's

The Security Council Veto - Global Policy Forum - UN Security Council
Subjects of UN Security Council Vetoes. Source: Data from the United Nations and Sydney D. Bailey and Sam Daws "The Procedure of the UN Security Council", ...
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/membship/veto/vetosubj.htm

http://www.peace.ca/securitycouncilveto.htm
hey buffalo, i hope you are well

thanks for this, however i was not asking for records or anything.

I will be not paying attention to much too sci-forums in the next few days. however i hope to catch up with you later when i am back properly

Zakariya. Take care.

You can't exactly blame Isreal for their wars. A long time ago Arabs/persians descended on Northern Africa and almost took the whole continent. Arabs aren't exactly innocent in all this. Food for thought :p

You can't exactly blame Isreal for their wars. A long time ago Arabs/persians descended on Northern Africa and almost took the whole continent. Arabs aren't exactly innocent in all this. Food for thought :pYou seem to be fabricating:

"The Ottoman Empire (Ottoman Turkish: دولت عليه عثمانيه Devlet-i Âliye-i Osmâniyye; literally, "The Sublime Ottoman State"), also sometimes known in the West as the Turkish Empire, existed from 1299 to 1923. At the height of its power in the 16th and 17th centuries, its territory included Anatolia, the Middle East, parts of North Africa, and much of south-eastern Europe to the Caucasus. It comprised an area of about 5.6 million km²[1] (though if adjoining territories where the empire's suzerainty was recognized, dominated mainly by nomadic tribes, are included it controlled a much larger area). The empire interacted with both Eastern and Western cultures throughout its 624-year history."

First paragraph from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_empire

When the Ottoman rule collapsed, England became the effective administrator of the region. They used part of it to create the new state of Israel. Many European Jews moved to Israel shortly afterwards and Israel confiscated Palestinian homes to house them. (Many of the younger ones they placed into communal living facilities, called "communes," which were mostly state owned farms. - Like the young arrivals from USSR had known all their lives. (State ownership of farm land and assigned housing was nothing new to them.)

The origin of the current conflict is this confiscation of Palestinian homes.

In contrast, Israel and Jordan & Egypt have been able to live in peace, most of the time, because no gross injustice was ever done to their citizens.

Billy T, What "confiscation", Arabs started murdering Jews in 1929.

Billy T, What "confiscation", Arabs started murdering Jews in 1929.I don't know what your are referring to. You will need to be a little more specific. Surely you do not ment that the Jews, who were relatively rich and thus hurt more than the average by the great depression! Even if this is your 1929 reference, I think it a little far fetched to imply that the Arabs caused the great depression.

That depression will be a picnic compared to one that is coming when the Mid East oil flow is seriously interrupted, say by Iran sinking a few super tankers in the Strait of Hormuze.

Some one told of a town from which the natives (also called Palestinians) were firing on the supply road the pre-state of Israel Jews were using. I spent some time a few days ago trying to learn about it and what happened when Israel was the terrorist (excuse me, if you have the other POV- freedom fighter) blowing up things* in effort to become an independent state, but could not find anything on that town and now can not find the post in which it was mentioned.

In my searching I did find a UK reference:

http://www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthemonth/may02_index.php?l=5

in which you can read (next to the picture of Palestinians, who lost their homes, waking to Lebanon with bundles balanced on their heads):

"...Jewish underground terrorist groups such as Haganah, Irgun and Stern were commanded to terrorise the Palestinian streets, destroy villages and slaughter entire Palestinian families. 34 massacres were committed within a few months: Al-Abbasiyya, Beit Daras, Bir Al-Saba', Al-Kabri, Haifa, Qisarya… These attacks aimed to annihilate the entire Palestinian territory and population (so-called Plan D), 50% of the Palestinian villages were destroyed in 1948 and many cities were cleared from its Palestinian population: Aker, Bir Al-Saba', Bisan, Al-Lod, Al-Majdal, Nazareth, Haifa, Tiberias, Jaffa, West-Jerusalem…Israeli forces killed an estimated 13,000 Palestinians. They forcibly evicted 737,166 Palestinians from the homes and land. 418 Palestinian villages were entirely depopulated and destroyed. The Palestinian populations in Aker, Bir Al-Saba', Haifa, Jaffa, Lydda, Al-Majdal, Al Ramla, Safad, Tiberias, and West Jerusalem were almost entirely removed. A conservative total, almost three-quarters of a million Palestinians were made refugees. ..."

I made two sentences bold for the reader with little time. Also note that this source may be as biased (one sided) as Buffalo Roam is, but there are a lot of specific facts, which can be checked, and several photos.
---------------------------------------
*Ben Gurion blew up the King David Hotel, back when he was a "freedom fighter" (excuse me, if you have the other POV - "terrorist")

You can't exactly blame Isreal for their wars. A long time ago Arabs/persians descended on Northern Africa and almost took the whole continent. Arabs aren't exactly innocent in all this. Food for thought :pAn Arab just emailed me that he blames palestinian terrible leaders, I told him that I blame the Arabs for voting them in.
As far as "blaming israel", hould they apologioze for anyone for trying to defend their civilians from genocide-campaign by Arabs for so long?

...As far as "blaming israel", should they apologioze for anyone for trying to defend their civilians from genocide-campaign by Arabs for so long?Perhaps "yes", if even a small part of text at:

http://www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthem...2_index.php?l=5

is true. I quoted a paragraph of it in my post just the other side of yours, and reproduce part here:

"...Jewish underground terrorist groups such as Haganah, Irgun and Stern were commanded to terrorise the Palestinian streets, destroy villages and slaughter entire Palestinian families. 34 massacres were committed within a few months: Al-Abbasiyya, Beit Daras, Bir Al-Saba', Al-Kabri, Haifa, Qisarya… These attacks aimed to annihilate the entire Palestinian territory and population (so-called Plan D) ..."

to ask what you know about these Jewish groups and cities original inhabitants?

Perhaps "yes", if even a small part of text at:

http://www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthem...2_index.php?l=5

is true. I quoted a paragraph of it in my post just the other side of yours, and reproduce part here:

"...Jewish underground terrorist groups such as Haganah, Irgun and Stern were commanded to terrorise the Palestinian streets, destroy villages and slaughter entire Palestinian families. 34 massacres were committed within a few months: Al-Abbasiyya, Beit Daras, Bir Al-Saba', Al-Kabri, Haifa, Qisarya… These attacks aimed to annihilate the entire Palestinian territory and population (so-called Plan D) ..."

to ask what you know about these Jewish groups and cities original inhabitants?

Hey Billy

How are you doing?

Surely these groups were just freedom fighters.

Didnot Yatzak Shamir (the ex PM of Israel in the early 90's) assisinate the a Swiss Un diplomat...... He was some freedom fighter!!!???!!!??

Which diplomat?

The U.S. has used the veto on it own 57 times, 19 times in conjuction with other countries, the record for Vetos fall to the Russians with 120 Veto's

The Security Council Veto - Global Policy Forum - UN Security Council
Subjects of UN Security Council Vetoes. Source: Data from the United Nations and Sydney D. Bailey and Sam Daws "The Procedure of the UN Security Council", ...
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/membship/veto/vetosubj.htm

http://www.peace.ca/securitycouncilveto.htm
Hows it going buffalo

and sorry for not getting back to you on this one


so has any other country had more than 38 vetos in its favour?

Which diplomat?
hey Kiwi

how are you?

sorry i have not got back to you on this one but he is the details of the diplomat


It was 47 years ago, Sept. 17, 1948, when Jewish terrorists assassinated Count Folke Bernadotte of Sweden as he sought to bring peace to the Middle East. His three-car convoy had been stopped at a small improvised roadblock in Jewish-controlled West Jerusalem when two gunmen began shooting out the tires of the cars and a third gunman thrust a Schmeisser automatic pistol through the open back window of Bernadotte's Chrysler. The 54-year-old diplomat, sitting on the right in the back, was hit by six bullets and died instantly. A French officer sitting next to Bernadotte was killed accidentally.

The assassins were members of Lehi (Lohamei Herut Israel—Fighters for the Freedom of Israel), better known as the Stern Gang. Its three leaders had decided a week earlier to have Bernadotte killed because they believed he was partial to the Arabs. One of those leaders was Yitzhak Shamir, who in 1983 would become prime minister of Israel.1

hey kiwi wasnt Begin a leader of that terrorist gang also

Begin led the Irgun, not Lehi. And like Arafat, he later won a Nobel peace prize. Which shows just how much those are worth :p

Kiwi's "1929" probably refers to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots

The worst killings occurred in Hebron and Safed. In Hebron, Arab mobs killed 65-68 Jews[5], wounded 58, and raped women. The lone British policeman in the town, Raymond Cafferata, was overwhelmed, and the reinforcements he called for did not arrive for 5 hours (leading to bitter recriminations). Many Jews survived by hiding in their Arab neighbors' houses and were later evacuated from to Jerusalem. The other major centers of violence were in Safed, where 18 Jews were killed in a brief attack.

All I can say is, that just as in the palestinian Arab group the fricking SICK kind of "pride" that leads them to accept the Hams butchers even though they suffer from them too... same is happening in S. Lebanon.

Self destructive cult.

All I can say is, that just as in the palestinian Arab group the fricking SICK kind of "pride" that leads them to accept the Hams butchers even though they suffer from them too... same is happening in S. Lebanon.

Self destructive cult.

Yes, I agree. Damned Christian neocons, stupid cult full of ignorance, arrogance, and pride on a one-way path to destruction. There's a reason why pride's one of the seven deadly sins. ;)

- N