HA HA TAKE THAT SANDY!!


Christ 'established here on earth' only one church," the document said. The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession - the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles!

So if you're not Catholic. You're going to HELL:bugeye: And this is comming from the Demon that presided over the Catholic church molestation cases. He was the Demon that recommended that the Bishops be re-assinged. Instead of prosecuted.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/07/10/ap3898289.html

Just wow, Just wow. In a Galaxy that's over 50 billion light years long. We have this pompass bacterial spore, claiming that "he" holds the keys to the Universe. You Christians, Muslims, ect. Are going to go down in History as a sick & twisted cult.

Thats not all...he has refered to the Protestant church as an instrument of the antichrist.

When I first read that on his website before he became pope I kept having to read it over and over, because I couldnt believe such a thing could be posted on an official vatican release.

Of course, Luther used the same poetic phrase to describe the vatican of his day.

Thats not all...he has refered to the Protestant church as an instrument of the antichrist.

When I first read that on his website before he became pope I kept having to read it over and over, because I couldnt believe such a thing could be posted on an official vatican release.

Of course, Luther used the same poetic phrase to describe the vatican of his day.
*************
M*W: I'm still in a state of shock that you're not christian. I was a bit shocked by BXVI's proclamation that any churches other than catholic are not salvific. Even when I was a catholic, we had more enlightened priests that claimed all christian sects were truly christian. This latest statement by the pope makes me even happier that I'm now an atheist! I don't like him. I don't get good vibes from him. I toyed with guilt after meeting JPII and then embracing atheism. I thought he was a good man, but BXVI was JPII's choice for the next pope. Makes me wonder. If I weren't already an atheist, I believe BXVI would have pushed me over the hump.

I was a bit shocked by BXVI's proclamation that any churches other than catholic are not salvific. Even when I was a catholic, we had more enlightened priests that claimed all christian sects were truly christian. This latest statement by the pope makes me even happier that I'm now an atheist! I don't like him. I don't get good vibes from him.

Try reading Paul Williams excellent book 'The Vatican Exposed' if you really want to know what these guys are up to, behind those massive pillars.

You'll love the historical prologue where Constantine meets the Bishop of Rome, who is somewhat befuddled by the emporer's frequent allusions confusing Christ with Sol!

http://atheism.about.com/library/books/full/aafprVaticanExposed.htm

"There is no disputing the fact that the Vatican, by which I mean the clerical bureaucracy which controls and leads the Roman Catholic Church, is a very powerful and secretive organization. There is also little disputing the fact that great power and great secrecy typically help an organization to become corrupt. Has the same occurred with the Vatican?

Put this way, it seems unreasonable to think that somehow the Vatican has managed to escape the sorts of corruption that have afflicted every other human enterprise through history, especially considering just how long the Vatican has had in order to succumb to the temptations of greed and power. On the other hand, it's not enough to simply suggest that the Vatican is susceptible to corruption - can a case be made that it *has succumbed to corruption?

That's what Paul L. Williams tries to do in his recent book The Vatican Exposed: Money, Murder, and the Mafia. Williams, who holds a doctorate in philosophy and a masters of divinity in church history from Drew University and who has taught religion and philosophy at the University of Scranton and Wilkes University, argues that the seeds of corruption were planted very early on when Constantine made Christianity the state religion, thus linking the Catholic Church with political power. This was a difficult time for Pope Miltiades, but he managed to cope well enough:

Miltiades was befuddled. What was transpiring before him was too bizarre to be true! Two worlds had collided. The world of Caesar with its riches and power, its pomp and splendor, was a world to be shunned. The world of Christ was a world of poverty and service, of persecution and self-denial.

Militades died in a regal bed, surrounded by attendants. The old bishop was succeeded by Sylvester, who reigned for nearly twenty-two years. During this time the pope came to wield secular power.

And so began a long, gradual slide away from principles of self-denial and towards the greed for power and money that accompany any sort of corruption. Today the extent of the Vatican's holdings are unknown, but a major shift occurred in 1929 when Pope Pius XI signed the Lateran Treaty with Mussolini - an act which did a lot to help Mussolini solidify his own power in Italy. At the time the Vatican was destitute, lacking sufficient funding to maintain its buildings or get the rats out of the walls. Currently, conservative estimates put the gold reserves of the Vatican above those of some industrialized countries, and its real-estate holdings larger than the land area of some nations.

A deal with Mussolini was a deal with terror and fascism, but it wasn't all that different than the deal with Constantine - it's a pattern that the Vatican has not shied away from even today. The quest for financial power led to heavy investments in fascist Italy (effectively ending ancient bans on usury), a concordat with Nazi Germany that ended Catholic political organizations in exchange for the Nazis collecting massive amounts of taxes which flowed to the Vatican, not to mention deals with fascist Croats and Mafia hoodlums.

Today, the bulk of the financial power of the Vatican (not to mention its corruption) seems to lie in the Instituto per le Opere di Religione, commonly known as the Vatican Bank:

Despite its claims otherwise, the Vatican Bank is not a branch of the State of Vatican City. It exists as an entity unto itself without corporate or ecclesiastical ties to any other agency within the Holy See. It is under the direct supervision of the pope. He is the one and only stockholder. He owns it; he controls it.

Unlike any other financial institution, the Vatican Bank is audited by neither internal nor outside agencies. Its worth remains a matter of conjecture, even for members of the College of Cardinals. There is not a scrap of its papers among all of the other bureaucracies of the Roman Church - not even ecclesiastical financial agencies - that attests to its assets or accounts. In 1996 Cardinal Edmund Szoka, the internal auditor of the Holy See, told investigators that he has no authority over the Vatican Bank and has no knowledge of its operations.

Much of Williams' book involves an investigation of the activities of the Vatican Bank and those who have represented it in the name of the pope. Murder, mobsters, fraud...the title of the book may be rather lurid, but if only a portion of what Williams writes is true, then the title is also quite accurate and fair."

HA HA TAKE THAT SANDY!!


Christ 'established here on earth' only one church," the document said. The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession - the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles!

So if you're not Catholic. You're going to HELL:bugeye: And this is comming from the Demon that presided over the Catholic church molestation cases. He was the Demon that recommended that the Bishops be re-assinged. Instead of prosecuted.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/07/10/ap3898289.html

Just wow, Just wow. In a Galaxy that's over 50 billion light years long. We have this pompass bacterial spore, claiming that "he" holds the keys to the Universe. You Christians, Muslims, ect. Are going to go down in History as a sick & twisted cult.

LOL so satans little puppet declares me a heretic. What an honour. :)

We will see when the Messiah Jesus returns who the spiritual filth is.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Wow that must be a slap in the face for many of those that follow jesus and god whatever that isn't catholic. Teh funny...

he may have said that because a decent number of protestant groups claim catholic are not chriastians

Well, some Catholics believe it. :confused:

Mel Gibson has come under fire for being hard on Jews in his film “The Passion of the Christ” — but apparently, he feels that Protestants are also doomed to damnation. In fact, it looks like Gibson, a conservative Catholic, believes that his Episcopalian wife could be going to hell.

Gibson was interviewed by the Herald Sun in Australia, and the reporter asked the star if Protestants are denied eternal salvation. “There is no salvation for those outside the Church,” Gibson replied. “I believe it.”

He elaborated: “Put it this way. My wife is a saint. She’s a much better person than I am. Honestly. She’s, like, Episcopalian, Church of England. She prays, she believes in God, she knows Jesus, she believes in that stuff. And it’s just not fair if she doesn’t make it, she’s better than I am. But that is a pronouncement from the chair. I go with it.”

Mel Gibson is a Gibsonite.

Look, he's just old. And old people are crabby. Give him a cup of tea and a biscuit and ask him about the war. You'll see the difference.

I have several comments for the Pope starting with:

-I don't need any intermediaries between me and Jesus.

-I have never found the words 'pope' or 'Catholic' in the Bible.

-It's the kind of thinking that led to the Inquisition, for which the previous pope recently apologized.

-I'm very disturbed by such exclusionary rhetoric.

- And what happened to the 'Can't we all get along' movement?

I don't care what Popo says. I don't answer to him. No one should.

-I have never found the words 'pope' or 'Catholic' in the Bible.


You never find the word trinity in the bible either, so then.. wouldn't your own argument stop you from believing in it?

He's only destroying his own credibility and such declarations only work on people who already think this way.

I don't know if the word trinity is in the Bible or not. And I'm too tired to go look it up. Even if the word "trinity" is not in the Bible, the concept of the three-in-one, the triune God, is.

The term "Godhead," referring to the three-in-one, can be found in Acts 17:29and Colossians 2:9. The doctrine of the Godhead can be summed up in the literal Hebrew translation of one verse. Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our Gods (plural) is Jehovah a unity."

The concept of the Godhead (Trinity) is evident in scripture as early as the first chapter of the book of Genesis.
Even the Old Testament makes definite reference both to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.

There are three individual Persons in the Godhead, there is still only one God.

http://www.dianedew.com/godhead.htm

-I'm very disturbed by such exclusionary rhetoric.

.

So am I!
But...isn't this what most Christians do anyways??
I see it every sunday on TV...Joyce Meyers, Franklin Graham,Donnie Swaggert, Jack Van Impe,etc,etc,etc.
Follow their narrow path to God or incinerate!:rolleyes:

There's another Swaggert? How bleah is that? :rolleyes:

At any rate I'm totally not surprised by this. Religion has always struck me as exclusionary and discriminatory. I am so not worried by any posturing mouthpiece. Until he becomes a military power of course.

I don't know if the word trinity is in the Bible or not. And I'm too tired to go look it up. Even if the word "trinity" is not in the Bible, the concept of the three-in-one, the triune God, is.

The term "Godhead," referring to the three-in-one, can be found in Acts 17:29and Colossians 2:9. The doctrine of the Godhead can be summed up in the literal Hebrew translation of one verse. Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our Gods (plural) is Jehovah a unity."

The concept of the Godhead (Trinity) is evident in scripture as early as the first chapter of the book of Genesis.
Even the Old Testament makes definite reference both to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.

There are three individual Persons in the Godhead, there is still only one God.

http://www.dianedew.com/godhead.htm
*************
M*W: The word "trinity" is not found anywhere in the bible. The divinity of Jesus came about when the trinity concept became an issue for the early church fathers to discuss in the late 300s CE, many decades following the Council of Nicaea. Jesus was not considered as divine in his own time (hypothetically assuming that he existed).

Let's face it. If Jesus was god, he would have been god eternally, and not just established around 400 CE.

Fiction. All fiction.

Does it really matter? I don't know of any Catholics that even listen to the Pope. I mean, are they supposed to use birth control?? I can't keep up, their rules change so often.

So am I!
But...isn't this what most Christians do anyways?? I see it every sunday on TV...Joyce Meyers, Franklin Graham,Donnie Swaggert, Jack Van Impe, etc,etc,etc. Follow their narrow path to God or incinerate!:rolleyes:*************
M*W: I'll tell you who I like to watch these days. It's Rod Parsley. He gets to preaching and starts to sweat profusely. He carries a black hankerchief to wipe his face. He's an ex-wrestler. I noticed the other day he was wearing a T-shirt under a long-sleeved shirt, and a black or charcoal grey wool jacket with white lining. Yes, I said white lining. It stuck out like a sore thumb. Then this idiot had on leather pants. They could have been vinyl. I don't know. In other words, he was purposefully contributing to heating up his body so he could sweat. His congregation believes that when he sweats, he is talking with the Holy Spirit! Another member on this forum (Bells) clarified many months ago that they also turn up the heat to give the illusion of being present in the Holy Spirit! What fraud! Then, there is the music. The organist plays a chord on cue when Reverend Parsley preaches. I've seen him have speakers on his show that literally hypnotized the congregation! That's scary. And, yes, these frauds are christians. I used to watch Jimmy Swaggert just to watch him cry. Now Rod Parsley sweats. No wonder his faithful pass out when they turn up the heat. This is the greatest show on earth, if you ask me.

The divinity of Jesus came about when the trinity concept became an issue for the early church fathers to discuss in the late 300s CE, many decades following the Council of Nicaea.
No, the Jesus figure is treated as human AND divine throughout the new testament.

As divine perhaps most of all in Paul's letters, and least of all in Mark.

Divine?

We need to clarify some issues then. You see, some would espouse that jesus is god. Indeed Sandy is one of those people - but last time I went through this she ignored me.

Is jesus god?

Firstly we need to define what 'god' is. Most would state that god is an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being.

Look at the following jesus quote:

"Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.."

In this quote jesus openly states that he is not and cannot be god if we assume god is omniscient.

The following quote:

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honour because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

What we can gather here is that 1) jesus was 'made', 2) was made lower than the angels, (which are not gods). and was only given honour and glory because he got whacked.

I could continue along these lines for days. We can explore omnipotence and omnipresence and many other angles that all show beyond any reasonable doubt that jesus could not have been god.

From a biblical perspective he is in fact of no more importance than melchizedek. So Sandy, will it now be a quadrinity?

*************
M*W: The word "trinity" is not found anywhere in the bible. The divinity of Jesus came about when the trinity concept became an issue for the early church fathers to discuss in the late 300s CE, many decades following the Council of Nicaea. Jesus was not considered as divine in his own time (hypothetically assuming that he existed).

Let's face it. If Jesus was god, he would have been god eternally, and not just established around 400 CE.

Fiction. All fiction.

Let's face it. If Jesus was god, he would have been god eternally, and not just established around 400 CE.

I approve the above statement.

The path to God is simple. You just believe and accept. Or not. You get to choose if you want to incinerate. Or not. ;)

The path to God is simple. You just believe and accept. Or not. You get to choose if you want to incinerate. Or not. ;)


A GOD who tortures.. Interesting.

-I have never found the words 'pope' or 'Catholic' in the Bible.

The Rapture isn't spelled out clearly either, and your posts have suggested that you believe in that.

-I'm very disturbed by such exclusionary rhetoric.

Haven't you said that only "born again" Christians are saved, and everyone else is doomed to Hell? (That would seem to exclude Catholics, since I've never heard of a "born again Catholic.") Why isn't that exclusionary?

I am never bothered by exclusionary rhetoric.

To be excluded from something that falls short of the will of Jesus is a compliment.

So when they say "you don't belong" Say thank God i belong to You and not them.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

We need to clarify some issues then. You see, some would espouse that jesus is god. Indeed Sandy is one of those people - but last time I went through this she ignored me...

I was raised that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one. And a clover leaf was always used as an example.
Each of the 3 leaves are separate, but part of the same thing.

I was raised that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one. And a clover leaf was always used as an example.
Each of the 3 leaves are separate, but part of the same thing.

Yeah, many are - but it's dumb, especially given most of Hebrews, jesus statements against him being god, and his failing in the attributes these same people say god has without doubt, (omniscience etc).

A GOD who tortures.. Interesting.

No. HE doesn't torture. YOU get a choice. Spend eternity in Heaven with your Heavenly Father or frying in Hell with your demonic father. :eek:

It really is that simple. Who is your spiritual Father? God or satan? There is no in-between. You're either a child of God or a child of the devil. You get to choose.:)

No. HE doesn't torture. YOU get a choice. Spend eternity in Heaven with your Heavenly Father or frying in Hell with your demonic father. :eek:


In the law, there are such things as "accessory to murder", "conspiracy to defraud" and other such felonies. In such cases, a person accused need not have actually done the crime, he simply had to know about it and be in a position to either stop it or alert a higher authority to the goings on; but yet do nothing to impede or even helps exacerbate the situation.

Nuff said?

No. HE doesn't torture. YOU get a choice. Spend eternity in Heaven with your Heavenly Father or frying in Hell with your demonic father. :eek:



The concept of a "devil" is an old concept that predates Christianity.
The Ancient Egyptians concept of the the devil was Set,but it was understood by the Egyptians that he represented all the ills of the human ego that affect peoples spiritual growth.
For instance, many times Set was depiced as a serpent(sound familiar?) that was always trying to "tip" the boat that Ra sailed down the river of creation.

For an NDE perspective on the "demonic father" ...

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research23.html

satan's goal is to have you believe there is no devil. Then you can blame God for all your problems. :rolleyes:

satan's goal is to have you believe there is no devil. Then you can blame God for all your problems. :rolleyes:

Sorry Sandy, that is a man created concept created by unscrupulous men for the purpose of control...and no ,it's not about blaming God but rather taking responsibility for you own actions.
Peace:)

satan's goal is to have you believe there is no devil. Then you can blame God for all your problems. :rolleyes:

Wouldn't Satan want you to believe in him so you can do his work and worship him?
Can a person blame God for some of their problems?

who in your opinion is the supreme being sandy, god or satan, is satan just a angel gone bad, then how come this all powerful being of yours god cant beat him is it because god likes him, or is it because he's doing what god wants, and taking all the flack for it.

The devil is not man-created. He's in the Bible. God defeated satan 2000 years ago when Jesus went to the cross.:bravo:

satan still tries to go after God's kids, but most of us are making an effort to ignore him. He already has his kids (non-believers) doing his work. It's God's kids he's after. :(

We can't blame God or the devil for all our problems. It's US making the decisions.

The "Supreme Being" is God (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.)

satan is just a defeated, punk loser. :(

Divine?

We need to clarify some issues then. You see, some would espouse that jesus is god. Indeed Sandy is one of those people - but last time I went through this she ignored me.

Is jesus god?

Firstly we need to define what 'god' is. Most would state that god is an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being.

Look at the following jesus quote:

"Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.."

In this quote jesus openly states that he is not and cannot be god if we assume god is omniscient.

The following quote:

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honour because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

What we can gather here is that 1) jesus was 'made', 2) was made lower than the angels, (which are not gods). and was only given honour and glory because he got whacked.

I could continue along these lines for days. We can explore omnipotence and omnipresence and many other angles that all show beyond any reasonable doubt that jesus could not have been god.

From a biblical perspective he is in fact of no more importance than melchizedek. So Sandy, will it now be a quadrinity?

Philippians 2:5-8

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

John 1 also speaks of Jesus being part of the triune being. Read John 1:1-14

It is obviously an understudied conclusion to say that Jesus was not God and try to use scripture to back your conclusion, because scripture speaks otherwise

The devil is not man-created. He's in the Bible. God defeated satan 2000 years ago when Jesus went to the cross.:bravo:

satan still tries to go after God's kids, but most of us are making an effort to ignore him. He already has his kids (non-believers) doing his work. It's God's kids he's after. :(

We can't blame God or the devil for all our problems. It's US making the decisions.

The "Supreme Being" is God (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.)

satan is just a defeated, punk loser. :(

This brings to mind the old saying..."history is written by the victors". Then again, there'd had to have been a real battle with real opponents.

The devil is not man-created. He's in the Bible. God defeated satan 2000 years ago when Jesus went to the cross.
*************
M*W: And who took pen in hand to write the bible? Men.

Who created the idea of satan? Men.

Who created the idea of god? Men.

satan still tries to go after God's kids, but most of us are making an effort to ignore him. He already has his kids (non-believers) doing his work. It's God's kids he's after.
*************
M*W: Satan goes after no one. Satan is a metaphor for evil which represents darkness. Satan is not real! Satan never existed, and neither did god.

We can't blame God or the devil for all our problems. It's US making the decisions.
************
M*W: So why do you need a god?

The "Supreme Being" is God (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.)
*************
M*W: There is no "supreme being," unless of course you're talking about Diana Ross.

satan is just a defeated, punk loser. :(
*************
M*W: Every myth has it's hero and it's advesary.

*************
M*W: And who took pen in hand to write the bible? Men.
Who created the idea of satan? Men.
Who created the idea of god? Men.
*************
M*W: Satan goes after no one. Satan is a metaphor for evil which represents darkness. Satan is not real! Satan never existed, and neither did god.
************
M*W: So why do you need a god?
*************
M*W: There is no "supreme being," unless of course you're talking about Diana Ross.
*************
M*W: Every myth has it's hero and it's advesary.

I disagree. God is the great I Am. He always was and always will be. satan was one of his angels until he fell from grace. He's been tempting man ever since Adam and Eve.:(

I need God because he is my spiritual Father. I need his wisdom, guidance, grace, love, and affection.:worship:

Maybe your life is perfect without Him. Mine is almost perfect because of Him.;)

It is obviously an understudied conclusion to say that Jesus was not is God and try to use scripture to back your conclusion, because scripture speaks otherwise

Exact same sentiment straight back at you. I wont go through all the details here because it is off topic, but we can debate it somewhere else if you're upto it.

I disagree. God is the great I Am. He always was and always will be. satan was one of his angels until he fell from grace. He's been tempting man ever since Adam and Eve. well it seem with gods blessing.
so we can assume from your replies that god cant beat satan else why hasn't god distroyed him, like he destroyed all the aledgedly evil people in the flood.
or is it satan is doing what god wishes him to do because god likes him.
you seem to have all the answers, can you explain that conundrum. thank you.

Wait a second Sandy... if God created Satan, why can't he just get rid of him? Right now. This very instant. Thus getting rid of all of this "the devil is tempting you" bullshit so more people can go to Heaven? And why did Jesus need to die on a cross to "defeat Satan" (who apparently hasn't been "defeated" since he still "exists") when God could have just... *poof*... destroyed him?

No. HE doesn't torture. YOU get a choice. Spend eternity in Heaven with your Heavenly Father or frying in Hell with your demonic father. :eek:

It really is that simple. Who is your spiritual Father? God or satan? There is no in-between. You're either a child of God or a child of the devil. You get to choose.:)
*************
M*W: Just curious, Sandy, what is your IQ?

satan's goal is to have you believe there is no devil. Then you can blame God for all your problems. :rolleyes:
*************
M*W: If there was a god, how could satan have this kind of manipulation over a human being that this god would have created? This is obviously a mythological joke.

I disagree. God is the great I Am. He always was and always will be. satan was one of his angels until he fell from grace. He's been tempting man ever since Adam and Eve.:(

I need God because he is my spiritual Father. I need his wisdom, guidance, grace, love, and affection.:worship:

Maybe your life is perfect without Him. Mine is almost perfect because of Him.;)
*************
M*W: You're delusional.

I disagree. God is the great I Am. He always was and always will be. satan was one of his angels until he fell from grace. He's been tempting man ever since Adam and Eve.:(

I need God because he is my spiritual Father. I need his wisdom, guidance, grace, love, and affection.:worship:

Maybe your life is perfect without Him. Mine is almost perfect because of Him.;)
*************
M*W: Sandy, do you know why this god you believe in is NOT the "I Am?" I'll tell you why. This story was to have taken place during the great phenomenal Exodus which never occurred when Moses went upon the mountain to talk to god=the sun (i.e. on the mountaintop) when god was supposed to have said "I am the I Am." This never happened!! It was a mythological story! There was NO Exodus. Moses didn't go upon a mountain and talk to god. It's not unusual in the heat of the desert that a bush would ignite under the heat of the sun. I've seen this happen myself on a very hot Southern summer day when the grass ignites and forest fires begin. It's a NATURAL occurance. No gods needed. No ancient prophets needed... just the heat of the sun, that's all.

Sandy, your knowledge concerns me. You seem to be trapped in a lie that you believe! Myth is fun to read, but it's not true... it's fiction.

Myth is fun to read, but it's not true... it's fiction.
So, one could say the same of your endless identification of biblical myths with astrology and sun worshipping.

So, one could say the same of your endless identification of biblical myths with astrology and sun worshipping.
*************
M*W: Sure, it's all myth. I don't proclaim it to be a modern science. It's just ancient myth. I don't believe in it, but ancients humans did.

Exact same sentiment straight back at you. I wont go through all the details here because it is off topic, but we can debate it somewhere else if you're upto it.

Was just pointing out other scriptures that you may have overlooked in drawing your conclusion, though I will allow your conclusion to be thus. First off for debate purposes, it would seem like one would first have to agree on the bible as foundational truth, I don't think I can get you to swallow that worm, so how can you argue that which you aren't in connection with?

Who cares what the pope says? And, furthermore, it does not make much logical sense for you to quote the pope, who declares himself the vicar of Christ, which is the equivalence of Christ on earth, and use his rhetoric to attack true Christians who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. If you want to use the pope to attack indwelt Christians, then please believe wholeheartedly in what he says first because your words mean nothing when you use something you do not believe/have the heart for to attack someone else merely for the sake of attacking them. I answer only to my Lord Jesus Christ because through His death He spilled sinless blood onto the earth, bridging the gap and tearing the curtain that separates heaven and earth. As such through the indwelt of the Holy Spirit, God is living within each and every regenerate Christian. Thus, no one needs a pope or priest or any other intermediary to go to God. Christians go straight to God themselves. He is my Father. Amen. :worship:

I thought that statement is just exaggeration made by media. :confused:


Anyway, I don't listen what pope says since 1054. ;)

it would seem like one would first have to agree on the bible as foundational truth, I don't think I can get you to swallow that worm, so how can you argue that which you aren't in connection with?

I see we now have our own thread for this. I would however like to point out that for the sake of debate I will accept the bible as authority and truth.