Hi.

Can Administrators (I MEANT MODERATORS) indiscriminately add votes in a poll? The reason i ask is that soon after i showed up in a thread the numbers started changing and shot up by five point in a poll, in fact representing a 20% increase, that had been up for over a week and there werent many votes to begin with AND only like 22 members were online at the time.

Why would administrators bother with it? What's the poll?

Hi Ben.

Just any poll. It is an observation i made that was quite easy to come by. Its OK, i am curious to know if Administrators have access to do this.

I dunno. They probably could, but why would they? I can't imagine that they care very much about the results of polls here.

If they could, I imagine that they would have rigged Reiku's poll a few weeks back.

I dunno. They probably could, but why would they? I can't imagine that they care very much about the results of polls here.

Well thats ok Ben. Thanks for being honest.

Well thats ok Ben. Thanks for being honest.

He never said they couldn't either, did he? They can go anywhere and do anything anytime they so choose. They can change or add to polls just to watch , for their enjoyment, what happens or to make certain their points of views are always the ones that win out.

The poll on Christianity was fixed. It is that simple.

Your learning fast! ;)

yeah well now the poll has been stagnant for hours. Coincidence...i dont think so.

Just any poll. It is an observation i made that was quite easy to come by. Its OK, i am curious to know if Administrators have access to do this.

I'm glad you finally got around to explaining that it's "the Christianity poll" you're asking about.

You're becoming quite the troll, John. This topic repeats a problem you've been showing of late; it's well enough to make various statements, but you don't seem to want to support those statements, and apparently the idea that you should be specific about anything offends you.

For instance: What Christianity poll?

Are you referring to the poll in the topic, "Christianity is a Hate Group"? (I had to go fish for it, but it seems the likely candidate.)

If so, what is your objection to being specific?

Is it that you don't actually care if you get an answer? Is it that you just want to complain that a topic you're trolling isn't going the way you want it to? I mean, in addition to the shite you've been trying to flip at me ... I'm losing count, but is that ten off-topic posts of yours from yesterday and today that were struck?

This topic is suspiciously timed.

• • •

Now, having covered those points, we can at least spend a moment pretending your question was honest.

And the answer is that yes, admins (and, unless I'm mistaken, supermods) can alter poll results. Altered polls are represented by one of three general symptoms:

• Alteration of poll question at request of posting member.
• Alteration of member's vote (e.g., from "yes" to "no") at member's request.
• Striking votes in cases of member-driven vote fraud (reduces total number of votes).

Since the votes need to be tied to a member, an administrator cannot arbitrarily add votes to a poll. Adding votes would require sock puppets or theft of user ID. Any member who does not agree with the message that they have already voted in a poll should contact an administrator both directly and immediately and explain the situation. Perhaps one of our administrators can clarify the issue, but I am under the impression that, even in an "anonymous" poll, they should be able to determine when and how you voted. Depending on how specific the software is, they might even be able to pin down where, geographically, the vote allegedly came from. If, for instance, a Christian from California cast a "yes" vote in the hate-group poll from Amsterdam at a time when that member typically isn't known to be around (e.g. when that member is usually asleep as suggested by a general lack of activity three o'clock on a Wednesday morning), yes, we would be suspicious, and advise the member to immediately change their password and perform whatever security measures they find appropriate in order to protect their own system.

John---

If you go looking for a conspiracy you will usually find one :)

Face it John99, it's a genuine miracle.

I'm glad you finally got around to explaining that it's "the Christianity poll" you're asking about.

You're becoming quite the troll, John. This topic repeats a problem you've been showing of late; it's well enough to make various statements, but you don't seem to want to support those statements, and apparently the idea that you should be specific about anything offends you.

For instance: What Christianity poll?

Are you referring to the poll in the topic, "Christianity is a Hate Group"? (I had to go fish for it, but it seems the likely candidate.)

If so, what is your objection to being specific?

Is it that you don't actually care if you get an answer? Is it that you just want to complain that a topic you're trolling isn't going the way you want it to? I mean, in addition to the shite you've been trying to flip at me ... I'm losing count, but is that ten off-topic posts of yours from yesterday and today that were struck?

This topic is suspiciously timed.


Tiassa,

I think you should be fully aware that the member you are talking to/about has displayed in many, many instances of being more than just a little "light" when it comes to logic and rational thinking. After being engaged in some discussions with him when he first appeared, I've made it point to NEVER respond to him again. Sadly, I made the misrake of actually responding a couple of times by not paying attention WHO'S post I was answering. And each time, I got back the exact sort of nonsense I would have expected.

I've not placed him on ignore but I certainly avoid him as much as possible. However, I do sometimes find it amusing to see what he's posted (this thread is an example) :D just to watch the responses he gets. :D:D

http://sciforums.com/member.php?u=27303,

I've been here longer than YOU. And you have had your sights on a management position for some time now.:D

It just goes to integrity. There is no way that poll was NOT manipulated, as for now i dont know if i can just accept the respondents heres credibility with the exception of Ben and Cosmic.

All this machinery making modern music
Can still be open hearted
Not so coldly charted
It's really just a question of your honesty, yeah
Your honesty
One likes to believe in the freedom of music
But glittering prizes and endless compromises
Shatter the illusion of integrity

As a matter of fact, administrators can alter polls and change the numbers of votes in a poll if they wish. However, I am not aware of that ever having been done here, except when a member who voted on a poll said they made a mistake and asked for a change in their vote. I assure you that I have never rigged the outcome of a poll by altering the numbers of votes, nor can I foresee any occasion where I would do so. It would not be ethical.

As a matter of fact, administrators can alter polls and change the numbers of votes in a poll if they wish. However, I am not aware of that ever having been done here, except when a member who voted on a poll said they made a mistake and asked for a change in their vote. I assure you that I have never rigged the outcome of a poll by altering the numbers of votes, nor can I foresee any occasion where I would do so. It would not be ethical.

James, i have always respected you fairness and honesty. I know i like to debate and discuss things and not for any one particular reason except that it is fun. But what point is it if people are going to be deceptive?

I suspect that poll was changed and it was changed by one of two people. That is all i will say on this matter. I would not have made a thread on this because i dont like to be critical of moderators but when i metioned it in the thread my post was deleted.

Are you saying James that only you and Plazma can alter the numbers in polls?

John, how do you know ? How can you know ?

John99:

I'm not even sure what poll you're talking about. Can you link to the thread?

Does it matter James?

Can MODERATORS alter the numbers in polls or not? It is easy enough to figure out as it would be default in vBulletin setup.

Does it matter James?

Can MODERATORS alter the numbers in polls or not? It is easy enough to figure out as it would be default in vBulletin setup.

They can, James already said that.. :shrug:

http://sciforums.com/member.php?u=27303,

I've been here longer than YOU. And you have had your sights on a management position for some time now.:D

It just goes to integrity. There is no way that poll was NOT manipulated, as for now i dont know if i can just accept the respondents heres credibility with the exception of Ben and Cosmic.

Actually, I was here before you - but I didn't start posting for several months.

And NO!!! I want NOTHING to do with the management of this place! If it were kindly offered to me, I would politely refuse, thank you very little!

Also, did you even bother reading Tiassa's long and informative post in response to you? It hit on several things that stand out about you.

They can, James already said that.. :shrug:

I meant MODERATORS. Sorry to the administrators, my mistake.

I meant MODERATORS. Sorry to the administrators, my mistake.

Oh sorry, my bad.

I don't think that moderators can edit poll numbers. But I've just tried to find that setting in the admin control panel and I can't see it, so I can't be 100% sure.

Does it matter James?

Can MODERATORS alter the numbers in polls or not? It is easy enough to figure out as it would be default in vBulletin setup.

Of course it matters. You have decided to accuse moderators of manipulating polls, and have mentioned one poll in particular. Why don't you link this poll so that James can see if you are correct or not?

As a moderator, I can assure you, I cannot manipulate or alter a poll, nor would I do so even if the ability existed.

Bells,

It was a simple question, not designed to become a soap opera.

The poll on Christianity was fixed. It is that simple.

Was that before or after this?

I meant the slang way of using fixed. Is that what you mean?

Rigged. A setup. A scam. The jig's up. A bamboozle. A...

[/B], nor would I do so even if the ability existed.

It is understandable when things become competitive and an honest question.

It is understandable when things become competitive and an honest question.

To answer your question, no, moderators are not able to manipulate a poll and change people's votes. The admin can (as far as I am aware) if a member requests due to a mistake.

If a moderator feels the need to alter the poll results to swing the votes one way, then in my opinion, they should not be a moderator. Doing so is unethical in the extreme.

Can a moderator add votes? (in addition to their own) Which would be different than altering or changing people's votes.

Dont be offended Bells, i don't have a problem with any moderators and take into consideration that they are only human. And was pointing to a potential flaw in the system but it appears, for now, that i may be wrong.

Of course the point is moot when sock puppets are considered, which may have been applicable to my particular complaint, although that would be a long shot.

Can a moderator add votes? (in addition to their own) Which would be different than altering or changing people's votes.

Dont be offended Bells, i don't have a problem with any moderators and take into consideration that they are only human. And was pointing to a potential flaw in the system but it appears, for now, that i may be wrong. We cannot add votes from non-existent members, nor can we alter the results of a poll.

Of course the point is moot when sock puppets are considered, which may have been applicable to my particular complaint, although that would be a long shot.
Not unless they created sockpuppets, but if someone doubts that something like that has happened, they should immediately contact admin and have it checked out. In public polls, it is easily checked as you can view who voted for what.

I am not even sure if a sockpuppet with no posts are able to vote in a poll (new members cannot send PM's until they have a set number of posts to their name). It used to happen where some members would create or have sockpuppets and vote in some polls (moderator selection polls is one example that comes to mind).

But if you suspect that someone has done this in a poll, it is easy enough to send a PM to Plazma, James or Stryder with a link to the thread/poll in question and have them check it out. It is not a long shot and should be easily checked. Seriously, if you suspect this has happened, I strongly advise you to send a link to the poll in question to one or all of the admin.

Yes, a moderator can change a poll.

No, a moderator did not change the poll in question.

Moreover, I resent the accusation, since I was the moderator online for the Religion subforum on the day you allege the vote-count was manipulated.

Indeed, I realized that I hadn't voted in that poll (sometimes I never vote in polls) until you asked a question in a post since deleted as off-topic about the vote-count "magically rising." At that time, I cast my own vote, raising it to the current 21 votes for the majority.

As a demonstration, however, I've taken two screenshots of the "edit thread" screen available to any moderator/admin with entitlements to the Religion forum. Screenshot A is before I edited the poll tonight. Screenshot B is after. The edit I made, for demonstration purposes, is to the "other" choice, raising it from "1" to "2." Please note the Time Stamp on each image at the bottom.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ctfeagans/Poll A.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~ctfeagans/Poll B.png

As you can see, there are no other edits to the poll listed. I made this edit to demonstrate that had there been a previous edit it would have an audit trail. This audit trail is available to James R and Plazma to review in the "Edit Thread" option in the Moderators' Menu for that thread. Should you still doubt the veracity of my word or my integrity -please harass them.

Now, could someone close this thread since the mystery is solved?

Oh, he's not gonna like that. He's gonna have to accept that xianity is a hate group now. The poll dosen't lie. And we're the authorities on this stuff after all.

Yes, a moderator can change a poll.



We can?:bugeye:

Ermmm ok. I didn't know that.

Cool, me neither!
Thanks for starting this, John! :p

How does one become a moderator?

Rent some server space; get some forum software; -edit the permissions.

hello skin

How does one become a moderator?

By sacrificing cute animals to great Satan.

How does one become a moderator?

Just a couple of passing comments:

It's probably not something you want to do - there can be a lot of work and "wear and tear" at times and VERY little (if any) thanks.

I've been a Mod for over six years on another forum (and an Admin for three) and you need to have a bit of thick skin from time to time.

I'm sure the procedures vary all over the place but we have a firm (undisclosed) rule at our forums - anyone who asks to be a Mod will never become one. And we do it by invitation only.

I really would not want to be a moderator, or at least until I graduate college. I wouldn't be on here enough to contribute to the forum, and I have only known of this forum for about 5 months. I would need more time, I am still only a freshman in high-school. I'll admit it, other than working at a part-time job, I have no experience.

By sacrificing cute animals to great Satan.

WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT EARLIER!!!? :D It all makes sense to me!

Oh, he's not gonna like that. He's gonna have to accept that xianity is a hate group now. The poll dosen't lie. And we're the authorities on this stuff after all.

I'm just a good debater. Sometimes i use good and bad magic depending on need.he he he

We can?:bugeye:

Ermmm ok. I didn't know that.

sTiasssa,

I think you should be fully aware that the member you are talking to/about has displayed in many, many instances of being more than just a little "light" when it comes to logic and rational thinking. After being engaged in some discussions with him when he first appeared, I've made it point to NEVER respond to him again. Sadly, I made the misrake of actually responding a couple of times by not paying attention WHO'S post I was answering. And each time, I got back the exact sort of nonsense I would have expected.

I've not placed him on ignore but I certainly avoid him as much as possible. However, I do sometimes find it amusing to see what he's posted (this thread is an example) just to watch the responses he gets.

I think the same thing about you.

I've checked. Everything is ok with poll in question.

Numbers are ok and real members voted.

'Yes' leads with the score from poll.