Suspicion about U.S. motives in Iraq and the broadly held perception that America ignores the interests of other nations in foreign policy disputes has tarnished the image of the United States around the world, according to a survey of public attitudes in 44 countries by The Pew Research Center for The People & The Press.

The poll also found broad support outside the Muslim world for American-led efforts to combat terrorism but an "equally strong global consensus that the United States disregards the views of others in carrying out its foreign policy," wrote Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center, who headed the Global Attitudes Project. (Full text here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9268-2002Dec4.html)) The poll seems to be getting very good coverage, but without context -- it would be interesting to see this contrasted with a poll at the end of the much-despised (by Charlie Rose & his ilk) Bill Clinton's administration with his multi-lateral approach to the 21st century. Despite an initial outpouring of public sympathy for America following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, discontent with the United States has grown around the world over the past two years. Images of the U.S. have been tarnished in all types of nations: among longtime NATO allies, in developing countries, in Eastern Europe and, most dramatically, in Muslim societies. (Actual report here (http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=165)) "The past two years." Another way of saying, "since Bush became president”?

Peace.

Gimme a B! Gimme a U! Gimme an S! Gimme an H!

What does it spell?

WAR!

Originally posted by Adam
Gimme a B! Gimme a U! Gimme an S! Gimme an H!

What does it spell?

WAR!

Damn, I thought it spelled "moronic crack monkey".

...an "equally strong global consensus that the United States disregards the views of others in carrying out its foreign policy,....
At the same time that also says that the 'global consensus' is equally disregarding the views of the United States in the conduct of its foreign policy.

Currently, no other country on the planet has a similar spectrum of global-scale foreign & domestic policy interests and concerns. So, of course the US isn't going to see the world the same way as any other country on the planet.

The US must see to its interests because, as the poll seems to show, no one else is going to do it for us.

No big surprise there.

that the world has become more enlightened about the amount of american interference, both overt and covert, and the incredibly negative consequences that result for the worlds cultures and our environment.

More and more, your average person, except in amerika, understands the motive force behind international events as the modern roman empire continues to implode and take the modern world along with it.

'The americans go around the world using fascism to protect capitalism while claiming to be protecting democracy from communism" (read terrorism now)
Dr. Michael Parenti
without a doubt the best political scientist to come out of the United States and I will bet none of you have ever heard of him.


www.michaelparenti.org

I will bet none of you have ever heard of him.You lose.

Thanks for the link, I'm checking out his stuff now. You must keep in mind that we don't hear of every Tom, Dick, and Harry in America, just as you probably know nothing of the big names in Australian academia.

Originally posted by Mr. G
The US must see to its interests because, as the poll seems to show, no one else is going to do it for us.An interesting point. But what interest are we protecting with military action in Iraq?

President Bush has succeeded in increasing America's "hard power" in the world, by funding a major increase in the size of the U.S. military and by concentrating U.S. government power in his own increasingly dictatorial hands. But his actions have had the effect of significantly reducing America's "soft power" in the world. If this tend continues, it will become increasingly impossible for America to lead by persuasion. Any cooperation America gains from other countries will need to be extracted by force or the threat of force. And of course, if America begins to act like a tyrant, what can the rest of the world do but resist?

This administration is forcing much of the world to unite against America.

Peace.

...dictatorial hands...?
Where do people keep getting these quaint fallacies that deny the complicitous role of the Legislative Branch and the Judicial Branch in controlling the Administrative Branch's formulation of domestic and foreign policy via funding and legality?

Not to mention the evil corporations and the secretive conspiratorial societies roles in pulling everyone's 'strings'.

Sheesh. Monsters-under-every-bed-think.

....it will become increasingly impossible for America to lead by persuasion...
A 15-to-0 security council vote on an Irag resolution doesn't equate to 'impossible' any time soon.

People all over the world should take a deep breath and unbunch their underwear. The sky isn't falling.

Jan, I may be wrong on this, but you seem to be making something of an error.

" 'The americans go around the world using fascism to protect "capitalism while claiming to be protecting democracy from communism' (read terrorism now)"

I believe the good doctor is reffering to when America actually put a fascist (often ex-Nazi) leader in power of a nation with a possible communist revolution on the front door. So no, do not read "terrorism now". Simply because the States no longer puts Nazi's in power with nearly the frequency, intensity or actual military backing it use to.

Parenti coined the beautifully descriptive expression over a decade ago and uses it in most of his books and lectures.


Here are two more wonderfully descriptive blurbs of his........



"The rich have always wanted one thing and that's everything. If you know that, you know more than if you know everything else there is to know, but you don't know that."


"Here at home and throughout the world people are fighting back against the forces of wealth, privilege, and militarism -- some because they have no choice, others because they would choose no other course but the one that leads to peace and justice."

Mr. G

The sky isn't falling.

Tell that to the people in the countries where we have recently dropped bombs. Maybe tell that to the people who survived or had loved ones in the WTC when it fell.

Many of those same people keep cropping up saying they are AGAINST rushing into war as this (p)residential administration has and will do again soon. Maybe that is because "War is HELL" as the old saying goes. And we Americans don't understand the hell we put people through when we support or help -- with our troops -- to terrorize innocent people. Innocent people like those in Timor/Indonesia right now, Afghanistan a little while ago, Iraq soon, and anywhere else our (lustful and greedy) interests are threatened.

I for one, didn't feel more unsafe when the WTC fell, I felt like it was the usual for the rest of the world (as well as America's violence filled ghettos). It is unjust for us as a people to accept a false safety created by isolation from the world's problems--problems we contribute greatly to with our heavy-handed foreign policy.

WAKE-UP! The sky IS falling (all over the world and outside your door --in the downtowns and ghettos of AnyCity, USA). Thinking persons, those without the horse-blinders of their need to keep the status quo (no matter how much that status quo hurts others), understand this. Keep covering your eyes; keep covering your ears; and keep covering your mouth. The sky won't fall on you, Mr. G.

jandt, I don't know about this but I do like your arguments. Except for two things. One, they're messed up. Two, they are simply weak. The US is dominant, despite all of the horror stories someone believes in...

.... is jealous of America. That have every right to feel this way. We are better than them after all. Morally, we are the best country on earth. Artistically, no other country even comes close. Militarily, everybody but America is a sally. Technologically, we are better than the rest of the world combined. In every meaninful way in which a country can be objectively measured, we are better than the rest of the world. They envy and hate us. Do we really give a da@#? He!@ NO!

Bush is doing a decent job to say the least. He has already killed 50% of the top leadership of Al Quaeda. That is quite impressive. It is nice to finally have a president who can handle international affairs.

I’d say: Morally, we’re screwed up. Artistically, we’re creative but obsessed with violence. Militarily, we’ve shifted from defense to offense. Technologically, we’ve deluded ourselves into thinking it will save us. It is obvious to any thinking person that our motive in Iraq is oil. Bush promised his contributors a profit, and Wall Street wagered that Iraq will provide it. If Bush fails to deliver he’s in trouble. You, Brad Rules, are just a pawn in the game, to be swayed as the powers see fit.

Non-Americans, lest you think that your country is blameless, note that “Wall Street” is an international arena. Chances are your retirement is vested in America’s interests. Beware of your own media and leadership using us as a scapegoat.

UUUhhh... iraq dosnt produce much oil in the scheme of things so forget that.

Anyway I feel we have the right to blow up anyone in any country who shoots a single projectile at us. Wanna stay alive? DONT DO IT!!!

UUUhhh... the first place (http://in.news.yahoo.com/020923/43/1viab.html) I looked says “Analysts said Iraq -- with proven reserves of 112 billion barrels of crude oil, next only to Saudi Arabia ...” We’re not after the oil they produce, but the oil they have.

Rest assured we’ll get someone to shoot at us in any country we wish to seize.

People:

I should like to bring to your attention Adam's thread, here (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=13844) for the linked article he introduced therein.

The article provides important perspectives on why so much of this thread's idealistic diatribes are so easily dismissed as realistically meritless.

The article overflows with perplexing psychobabble (“Respect for the deep structural laws that govern the historical process — whatever these laws may be” Huh?). Nothing in it seems to show why anything in this thread is easily dismissed. Maybe you can point something out specifically?

Ah, a Cliff Notes junkie, huh? ;)

Yes. Cliff Notes for every subject would be great. What do you think the article says or implies about the U.S. motive in Iraq?

The article says that that part of the world is populated by people not unlike yourself.

Even less like me.

Ah, a Cliff Notes junkie, huh?

No Mr. G, zanket is not a "Cliff Notes Junkie," he simply desires writing that is clear, not writing (like yours and the article's) infected with nominalizations.

And your "[passive] diatribe" is just another example of your unclear, obfuscating grammar: particular human beings have posted those diatribes you "[dismiss] as realistically meritless." If you wish to address a complaint to a particular poster, then "SAY" IT (i.e. write it), do not hide behind passive sentences. In other words, if you want to say something to me, throw down right now, and just say it.

EvelinaAnville:

Your reading comprehension is suffering, too, eh?

Always someone else has to clue you in? I got the gist of the article. Why can't you?

Who said i'd ever "doubt" their motives? I am pretty sure what the real motives are;)

If we can't find Osama, bomb Iraq.
If the markets hurt your Mama, bomb Iraq.
If the terrorists are Saudi
And the bank takes back your Audi
And the TV shows are bawdy,
Bomb Iraq.

If we have more corporate scandals bomb Iraq.
And your ties to them are showin', bomb Iraq.
If the smoking gun ain't smokin'
We don't care, and we're not jokin'.
That Saddam will soon be croakin',
Bomb Iraq.

Even if we have no allies, bomb Iraq.
From the sand dunes to the valleys, bomb Iraq.
So to hell with the inspections;
Let's look tough for the elections,
Close your mind and take directions,
Bomb Iraq.

While the globe is slowly warming, bomb Iraq.
Yay! the clouds of war are storming, bomb Iraq.
If the ozone hole is growing,
Some things we prefer not knowing.
(Though our ignorance is showing),
Bomb Iraq.

So here's one for dear old daddy, bomb Iraq.
From his favorite little laddy, bomb Iraq.
Saying 'no' would look like treason.
It's the Hussein-hunting season.
Even if we have no reason,
Bomb Iraq

That is exquisite. Thanks!

Perhaps before we bomb Iraq, we should evict all the commie pinko America-hating leftists. Do we really need these welfare geeks sucking us dry? They bitch and moan when America does something to protect herself. When America passes out the free welfare checks, these same hypocritical swine are the first in line to get their free lunch. Sanctimonious Ingrates. When and if we are attacked again, I hope to the bottom of my heart that the muslim terrorist scum hit Berkley and hit her hard. To actively impede our war on terror after 911 makes you an accomplice to first degree murder. The trully sad part it that you lefties are putting ALL of america at risk, not just your brain-dead segment of American society.

Liberals, evil or retarded.... you make the call.

*yawn*

If you wondered just how obsessed America is with violence, check out JCPenny's Forward Command Post (http://www3.jcpenney.com/jcp/Products.asp?GrpTyp=PRD&ItemID=05b5baa&RefPa) for ages 5 & up. I thought it was a hoax at first.

That is very good - did you write it? :)

Originally posted by zanket
If you wondered just how obsessed America is with violence, check out JCPenny's Forward Command Post...To be fair, you need to know sales volumes to use this
product as an example of America's "obsession with violence".
Just because a product is marketed does not mean it will sell.

:m: Peace.

If you wondered just how obsessed America is with violence, check out JCPenny's Forward Command Post for ages 5 & up. I thought it was a hoax at first.
Ahh, that is a tad disturbing. Not to mention the 'world peacekeepers battle station' to the right. Although, I liked gijoe when I was a kid...and I didn't grow up collecting guns and hating communists.

The american steriotype is the macho man. Kinda like the Duke: Real men don't cry, drink like a man and so forth. For some reason the macho quality is looked up too, when in reallity they are nothing but boys driven by fear.
I really see little difference in the mentallities of Sadam, Osama, or good ol'Bush. I really can't tell them apart by their motives. They are all so in love with power. They all talk about religion and spirituality when in there own life they are spiritualy retarded. Gods favorite colors are red, white, and blue. That is possibly the one most ignorant statement that I have ever heard. Honestly they leaders use there religion as a means too control and munipulate the hearts of the people.
They envy and hate us.
Do you really believe that brad? Because the truth is I pitty you. Why would I want want what you have? I am happy with what I have. Open your eyes and think for yourself, the mentality you hold now will seperate you from any truth in your life.
In every meaninful way in which a country can be objectively measured, we are better than the rest of the world
Why is it so important to be better then another? Brad I do not mean to judge you in any way but, have you ever thought about what you say. Honestly, take a good look at the people around you. You are just as equal as them an no matter what you do, no matter how much you have, you will be an equal in the eyes of god(Here I am assuming you believe in a higher power I apologies if I am wrong) and the universe.

You enter this world with nothing and you will leave this world with nothing. Can you honestly say that anything is truley yours?

Likewise on the gijoe (although I preferred my Erector Set!). My feeling is that some percentage of kids who are immersed in war toys will grow to enjoy violence and will seek to enact it. It could be argued that that will happen regardless of the toys/movies/etc., but I'm reminded of a "letter to the editor" from a 30-year middle-school teacher, who said that the trend towards more boys enjoying violence has been obvious over his career. He said he now has to forbid his students from writing essays involving violence, otherwise most of the boys will inject it.

Intuitively, it seems obvious, "like father like son." If the father kicks the cat and hits his wife, the son will more likely find that acceptable and expected. Now the kids are learning the violence from other sources.

My son is 3 years old and KOW a joy. A playmate of his, also 3, watches shoot-em-up movies with his dad. Now you rarely see him without a toy gun in his hand. If we go to the beach, he'll soon find a piece of driftwood that can be imagined as a gun.

I'd say part of our motive in Iraq stems from the intense suppressed desire to kill people.

Edited spelling.

How do you know he isn't just pretending to hunt....aliens?

The first clue is when he "shoots" my son.

Perhaps your son is... an alien. ;)

:m: Peace.

I don't doubt that sometimes :)

Mr. G

So, what was wrong with my original diatribe (I don't mean the one where I invited you to a ghetto duel)...I did not see you citing anything before you made that statement. I'm just expressing myself to my fellow American, using logical reasoning, instead of citations. I just get tired of seeing people in this country act like Americans are more important than other people. I care for all people, everywhere, even people who use insults instead of arguments, and then say others are doing the same.

Brad,

You're funny! That was a good, long laugh you gave me!

Eve...

You're funny! That was a good, long laugh you gave me!

I can tell that you are attracted to me. That is not unusual. Mr. Rules has always had a way with the ladies. If you are young, are persistent enough and have a hot body, perhaps I will take you out for a test drive.

If you were being facetious, which I highly doubt, shame on you!

Brad Pitty:p

It's called: delusion of grandeur....

Also, wasn't it Stalin who proclaimed "If you are not with us you are against us...etc..."

How remarkable that you and that "leftist scum" share the same reasoning.....