What do they look for when testing for meth? I thought meth was made up of legal substances (cold pills, sinus tablets, etc) so how could you flunk a piss test?

All a urine test has to do is isolate a single substance and look for it and at what levels. sure there can be legal substances to show trace amounts but a speed freak would not haver normal levels in urine. the theory is that not many people would take 2,000 cold pills in one day.

ah, that makes sense. Is that how they can tell someone smokes weed and didn't just walk into a room full of smokers?

THC stays in your fat cells and leaches out, making it detectable in urine tests for weeks. I dont think anyone has ever gotten busted in a urine test for standing around someone smoking. Maybe if you were locked in a closet with a few bongs and people smoking but ypu would have breath realllly deeply.

If you were in a room full of like 20 people smoking cannabis, enough to make you start coughing and feel sick, would that show up?

It might but there is a big difference to actually forcing it into your lungs and blood stream while smoking. It is like crack and cocaine same substance different effects, why? because it goes through the lungs- taking a more direct route to the blood stream.

People have been busted for testing positive for opiates after eating poppy seed muffins.

People have been busted for testing positive for opiates after eating poppy seed muffins.

see, I've heard that, but always assumed it was urban myth. :shrug:
but apparently its true.
http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/poppyseed.asp

And for the longest time the promoters of drug testing didn't check that out.

so now what do they do?

so now what do they do?

I have no idea.

People have been busted for testing positive for opiates after eating poppy seed muffins.

They use sesame seeds now and have been for many years.

What do they look for when testing for meth? I thought meth was made up of legal substances (cold pills, sinus tablets, etc) so how could you flunk a piss test?
Meth made in home "labs" involve a lot of chemicals, but they all go through chemical reactions to create the end product, which is then purified out through crystallization. Some sinus tablets and allergy medicines have ephedrine or pseudo-ephedrine in them, which are analogs of amphetamines and have a similar effect on the body. I'm not really sure if those cold/allergy medicines are used in producing crystal meth, however. I'm sure I could find it online, but meh.

They use sesame seeds now and have been for many years.


Not on the poppy seed covered bread I buy.

Not on the poppy seed covered bread I buy.

They did it on mythbusters, poppy seeds DO make you come up dirty. But maybe that is with certain tests, there are different kinds.

They did it on mythbusters, poppy seeds DO make you come up dirty. But maybe that is with certain tests, there are different kinds.

Er John, I wasn't arguing that. I was telling Cosmic that you can still get poppy seeds on bread products. He seemed to be saying that poppy seeds had been supplanted by sesame seeds on such, and that isn't the case.

oh ok. poppy seeds are the little black ones.

Er John, I wasn't arguing that. I was telling Cosmic that you can still get poppy seeds on bread products. He seemed to be saying that poppy seeds had been supplanted by sesame seeds on such, and that isn't the case.


Here are what they look like. You really can't tell the difference if you didn't know.

http://www.murrayhill5.net/blog/inmykitchenblog/kitchenimages/blackpearl/blacksesame.jpg


Here are the poppy seeds.

http://www.dlc.fi/~marianna/gourmet/pic/n_poppys.jpg

THC stays in your fat cells and leaches out, making it detectable in urine tests for weeks. I dont think anyone has ever gotten busted in a urine test for standing around someone smoking. Maybe if you were locked in a closet with a few bongs and people smoking but ypu would have breath realllly deeply.
Technically yes, but a urine test is easy to defeat. If you are slim and have little body fat, you already have an advantage.
All you have to do is drink a shitload of water starting at least 3-4 hours before you take the test. In a nutshell, your kidneys more or less just allow the excess water to bypass them straight into your bladder. So when you go to pee pee in the cup, you're pissing mostly water. I've passed more than one piss test by this method.

Here are what they look like. You really can't tell the difference if you didn't know.

http://www.murrayhill5.net/blog/inmykitchenblog/kitchenimages/blackpearl/blacksesame.jpg


Here are the poppy seeds.

http://www.dlc.fi/~marianna/gourmet/pic/n_poppys.jpg

I can taste the difference. Besides, poppy seeds are small and round, and sesame seeds are elongated, easy to tell the difference.

Well first off just because you use legal substances to make something illigla does not make the product legal, sudaphetrine is slightly different than methamphetamine (has an OH group). Second when they test for most drugs they are NOT testing for the actual drug but what the body produces in response to the drug, ie the product that comes out of the liver to process the substance. They can tell the concentration of drug and thus tell if you just were sitting around and people were smoking pot or you actually were

-n8

but if you were sitting in a room with like 20 dopeheads and the smoke was enough to make you feel like puking? Wouldn't that mean you'd inhaled a significant amount of the drug?

...Second when they test for most drugs they are NOT testing for the actual drug but what the body produces in response to the drug, ie the product that comes out of the liver to process the substance. ....

so what are they testing for in a meth pis test/

Technically yes, but a urine test is easy to defeat. If you are slim and have little body fat, you already have an advantage.
All you have to do is drink a shitload of water starting at least 3-4 hours before you take the test. In a nutshell, your kidneys more or less just allow the excess water to bypass them straight into your bladder. So when you go to pee pee in the cup, you're pissing mostly water. I've passed more than one piss test by this method.

Have fun beating a random. Even still that is not a good way to beat a piss test and they will assume masking and retest later. With random test.:p

Yeah, they kinda notice pee that has no yellow to it at all.

Orleander I am not exactly sure which one is tested for, or if it is anouther by product but this is informing
"
The major metabolic pathway for amphetamine involves
deamination by cytochrome P450 to para-hydroxyamphetamine and
phenylacetone; this latter compound is subsequently oxidised
to benzoic acid and excreted as glucuronide or glycine
(hippuric acid) conjugate. Smaller amounts of amphetamine are
converted to norephedrine by oxidation. Hydroxylation
produces an active metabolite, O-hyroxynorephedrine, which
acts as a false neurotransmitter and may account for some
drug effect, especially in chronic users (Dollery, 1991).
"
-http://www.intox.org/databank/documents/pharm/methampt/pim334.htm#SectionTitle:6.4%20%20Metabolism
So Its probly one of these glucuronide or glycine (hippuric acid).

-n8

The color is not that important, its the concertration of excretions that are directly related to the amount of water drank. Creatine is one of the main things they test for when seeing if the urine is diluted (The name creatine can be used for a few different substances, so I am not sure which one it is)

But if it's too diluted they will reject it, and make you do it again later.

THC stays in your fat cells and leaches out, making it detectable in urine tests for weeks. It's the metabolites, not the THC itself. That is somewhat unfair because it allows employers/schools/parents/etc to use against you something you did way in the past on your own time. (I choose not to smoke, but I think people should have the choice. On the other hand, I agree that an employer should be able to fire anyone for any reason).

but if you were sitting in a room with like 20 dopeheads and the smoke was enough to make you feel like puking? Wouldn't that mean you'd inhaled a significant amount of the drug?
Was it enough to make you feel high? If so, that's enough to detect. You have to remember that there is a huge difference between being in a room with it and drawing in a lungfull straight from the pipe. Even if it seems like a thick smoke in the air, it's still much, much more diffused.

If you don't smoke regularly (like no more than once every month or two), then even several full hits should be pretty much undetectable after 24-48 hours. If you smoke more than that, it can take 2 or 3 weeks. And if it really was just you being in the same room, it will probably be undetectable the very next day.

If you mess around with meth, a drug test is the least of your problems.

If you mess around with meth, a drug test is the least of your problems.

lol...

damn sound point that...

how bout them VOLS?...

dagr8n8 is right... the tests are for metabolites... not the drug itself... except, i think, in the case of fat soluble cannaboids... i think some tests done by the more advanced testing can direct test for those... companies rarely use advanced testing measures... some DOT related companies do...

also a hair test is far more revealing... the things are pretty much BS invasions of personal liberty and privacy... not actual searches for drug use... or they would hair test...

....also a hair test is far more revealing... the things are pretty much BS invasions of personal liberty and privacy... not actual searches for drug use... or they would hair test...

Then don't apply for the job. :shrug: I don't think McDonalds does a drug test.
I know I don't want to work with an addict.

Then don't apply for the job. :shrug: I don't think McDonalds does a drug test.
I know I don't want to work with an addict.

well i see with your mind set you're all set and ready for the new robot overlords... lol... or big brother... whichever comes first... or maybe those aliens from Carpenter's 'They Live'...

but... if a company actually wanted to prevent your pristine, sober innocence from being corrupted by one of those filthy "addicts" (so many casual weed smokers are just that)... your place of work would utilize a hair test... they are FAR more effective at weeding (get it? play on words there? high level stuff) out the disgusting "addicts"...

i'm not sure how you were able to miss, or misunderstand, such a simple point... i hope that clears it up...

if a company isn't hair testing... they are pretty much making fairly empty gestures for show, like 'a drug free work place' crap on the company mission statement... and in your case, they are putting you in a situation where a filthy "addict" might be ready and waiting to pounce on you when you least expect it...

i work for myself... i don't need a 'daddy' company to go make a job for me... i can make my own... but when i need an L or a Q for a gig... the requirements and scrutiny are far more vigorous than anything you will ever encounter...

not sure someone with questionable reading comprehension skills should be so eager to throw around 'go get a job at McDonald's' aspersions btw...

....also a hair test is far more revealing... the things are pretty much BS invasions of personal liberty and privacy... not actual searches for drug use... or they would hair test...Part of it also is that a hair test is much more expensive, and they don't figure they need to go that far back in time.

well i see with your mind set you're all set and ready for the new robot overlords... lol... or big brother... whichever comes first... or maybe those aliens from Carpenter's 'They Live'......

hello!!! I am one of those overlords! I have no problem with drug tests. Mainly cuz I don't wanna work with someone who has a drug problem.

The color is not that important, its the concertration of excretions that are directly related to the amount of water drank. Creatine is one of the main things they test for when seeing if the urine is diluted
You're talking about a pretty sophisticated test. Many tests are simple strips that you dip in the urine and they change color if the drug is detected.

I've heard that taking vitamins is helpful in beating a drug test. I know that taking large doses of B vitamins will turn your urine bright yellow. So this may be a way of masking the fact that the urine is dilute. At least masking it to visual inspection. Perhaps many facilities only test for the concentration of Creatine or whatever if the tester suspects the urine is dilute.

There are a few different tests and depending on the job can be pretty sophisticated. Not to mention hair samples. But like somone said why bother beating a test for wmeth, that is the least of your problems. Unless it is for your probation officer.

But if it's too diluted they will reject it, and make you do it again later.

It's the metabolites, not the THC itself. That is somewhat unfair because it allows employers/schools/parents/etc to use against you something you did way in the past on your own time. (I choose not to smoke, but I think people should have the choice. On the other hand, I agree that an employer should be able to fire anyone for any reason).


Was it enough to make you feel high? If so, that's enough to detect. You have to remember that there is a huge difference between being in a room with it and drawing in a lungfull straight from the pipe. Even if it seems like a thick smoke in the air, it's still much, much more diffused.

If you don't smoke regularly (like no more than once every month or two), then even several full hits should be pretty much undetectable after 24-48 hours. If you smoke more than that, it can take 2 or 3 weeks. And if it really was just you being in the same room, it will probably be undetectable the very next day.

Nope, it didn't make me high, just made my throat horribly raw and made me feel really sick.

If you were in a room full of like 20 people smoking cannabis, enough to make you start coughing and feel sick, would that show up?The rationale behind drug testing is to persecute people who get high on illegal drugs. One would hope that the threshold for a positive test would be a concentration high enough to indicate that you got high, not that you just happened to be at a Phish concert while on vacation in Vancouver. Of course, betting on any rationality at all in the persecution of illegal drug users is a bad bet. They probably also want us to boycott Phish concerts to make illegal drug users feel ostracized.And for the longest time the promoters of drug testing didn't check that out.Duh. I still run into people in corporate HR offices who insist that the poppy seed-opium test link is an urban myth. And they call drug users "stupid"!Meth made in home "labs" involve a lot of chemicals, but they all go through chemical reactions to create the end product, which is then purified out through crystallization. Some sinus tablets and allergy medicines have ephedrine or pseudo-ephedrine in them, which are analogs of amphetamines and have a similar effect on the body. I'm not really sure if those cold/allergy medicines are used in producing crystal meth, however. I'm sure I could find it online, but meh.Yes, pseudephedrine is one of the main ingredients in methamphetamine. Haven't you noticed that most stores keep it behind the counter now, so you can't buy more than one or two packs, or shoplift a purse full?I can taste the difference. Besides, poppy seeds are small and round, and sesame seeds are elongated, easy to tell the difference.It's inconceivable that somebody couldn't tell the difference between a poppy seed and a sesame seed. Even a Ferengi on his first trip to Earth who didn't know what they are would notice that they are quite different.also a hair test is far more revealing... the things are pretty much BS invasions of personal liberty and privacy... not actual searches for drug use... or they would hair test...Hair tests have had a high rate of false positives. Corporations got tired of the bad press and these days the only ones who use them are so ultra-right-wing or so in the pocket of the military that you couldn't stand to work there anyway.I have no problem with drug tests. Mainly cuz I don't wanna work with someone who has a drug problem.So you don't work with anybody who has a "drug problem" with the legal drugs that they pander to us? A Starbucks junkie who commits road rage two or three times a week and is an accident waiting to happen? A smoker who's exacerbating the greenhouse effect, jacking up your group insurance premium, and doing mediocre work while white-knuckling it from one outdoor break to another? An alcoholic who is indistinguishable from the rest of us during the day but stops at the bar on the first floor after work and drives home with a BAC of .25 every night?

Drunk drivers kill about 55 Americans every day. Potheads, the primary target of drug testing, don't kill that many in five years, even if you normalize the statistics for the rates of use of the two drugs--which only differ by about one order of magnitude.

....So you don't work with anybody who has a "drug problem" with the legal drugs that they pander to us? A Starbucks junkie who commits road rage two or three times a week and is an accident waiting to happen? A smoker who's exacerbating the greenhouse effect, jacking up your group insurance premium, and doing mediocre work while white-knuckling it from one outdoor break to another? An alcoholic who is indistinguishable from the rest of us during the day but stops at the bar on the first floor after work and drives home with a BAC of .25 every night?....

I said I don't want to. And who does? I've had co-workers show up drunk.
If you want to work with someone strung out on drugs, good for you. If you want to compare it to coffee, go ahead. I'm not working with a meth head or a drunk. I'm not carrying someone's ass. I have a family I help support and I'm not going down in flames cuz they are too wasted to get their job done.

I said I don't want to. And who does? I've had co-workers show up drunk. If you want to work with someone strung out on drugs, good for you.I worked with lots of stoned potheads back in the day and A. Their work ranged from fine to outstanding and B. They were the least likely to cause "personnel problems." I worked with plenty of cokeheads and they were fine too. The "cocaine" they sell today is cut with amphetamine and the effect of the speed is far worse than the effect of the coke, both immediately and cumulatively. People who go out and casually get drunk at lunch are a disaster but real alcoholics maintain well. The absolute best boss I ever had was an alky, the most effective and well-liked manager in the department. A hundred years ago lots of people did the same thing with morphine and cocaine. Apparently adults really are capable of self-medicating, choosing the drug that provides a life with the least severe problems, at least in the short term. The government screws that up by arbitrarily increasing the severity of the consequences of some drugs over others. We can lose our jobs or go to prison for using many drugs that were used unremarkably for centuries and, are thereby encouraged to make do with alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. That doesn't work for all of us. The motto of the Nanny State government that we have the misfortune of living under is "One Size Fits All." That is a lie.If you want to compare it to coffee, go ahead.Don't tritely dismiss my comparison of my experience with caffeine to others' experiences with coke, LSD and a host of other now-illegal drugs. It ruined my life. It's preposterous to suggest that caffeine is less dangerous than marijuana. Which one makes people worse drivers? The one driving in the right lane 10mph below the speed limit or the one in the left lane with one hand on the horn and the other giving the finger out the window?I'm not working with a meth head or a drunk. I'm not carrying someone's ass. I have a family I help support and I'm not going down in flames cuz they are too wasted to get their job done.Stay out of California. You wouldn't last two days in the entertainment industry. Many of the most creative people are truly tortured souls and tortured souls need drugs.

....Don't tritely dismiss my comparison of my experience with caffeine to others' experiences with coke, LSD and a host of other now-illegal drugs. It ruined my life.....

coffee ruined your life.:bugeye:
o-kee-do-kee then

coffee ruined your life. o-kee-do-kee thenNot coffee. Cola and tea. I can't stand the taste of coffee. Two ounces of Diet-Rite in a measuring cup on Saturday morning will keep me bouncing off the ceiling for an entire weekend. And when I was younger I used to drink three or four cans a day.

I just had 3 cups of coffee in a row, hehe :D

Not coffee. Cola and tea. I can't stand the taste of coffee. Two ounces of Diet-Rite in a measuring cup on Saturday morning will keep me bouncing off the ceiling for an entire weekend. And when I was younger I used to drink three or four cans a day.

how did it ruin your life?

Hair tests have had a high rate of false positives. Corporations got tired of the bad press and these days the only ones who use them are so ultra-right-wing or so in the pocket of the military that you couldn't stand to work there anyway.

that is not in any way accurate... telling the difference between surface or contact contamination - eg - i'm standing in a room full of weed smokers for an hour... versus drugs consumed... is easily done with a hair sample...

urine based testing is responsible for both false negatives, and false positives, a LOT of them... more than any form of testing and this is well known fact...

simply consuming quantities of water will false negative a urine screen... masking agents or diuretics... it's painfully easy to get a false negative...

the list of ingredients proven to be the source of false positives in urine testing is very long... and has been proven in court...

corporations have never been using hair testing in any majority because it goes back 90 -120 days... catching too many casual drug users hurts the bottom line...

urine testing catches stupid casual users,and not all of them...mostly casual weed smoker because it is fat soluble and stays in residual amounts longer than the 24-48 hours of most illegal drugs... besides mostly casual weed smokers, it catches only the most completely out of control addicts in late stages of addiction, and btw... that type of person will usually not be hired, or if it the decent into addiction happens while employed, they will be fired due to job performance in almost all cases...

and if you simply have a rock and roll doctor?... you can get a prescription and pop 'legal' pills to high heaven... and it's all good... or just become a hard core functioning alcoholic (most alcoholics are high functioning) and you have no worries, and you are the most deadly addict to those around you in the world...

"i don't want to work with addicts" lol...

like i said it's a sham... for a Slogan on company documents, or part of a 'Company Mission Statement'...

if you will... imagine trying to explain to George Washington or Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, etc. that they need to go piss in a cup, sometimes in front of someone watching you, to have the privilege of a job...

if you have any real knowledge of history you get my point... knowledge of history does enlighten mankind and bring things into context...

"drug testing' is a sham... a token effort... and a raping of personal liberty that around a million men have died to give us...

most people are too conditioned to even be aware of it, or think of in that context... if nothing else Stalin, and Hitler, and Mao, etc... the large scale social architects of history teach us that most people, almost all people, are painfully easy to condition, and then lead around by the nose... all the while those very people think they made a decision to do what they are doing and will often defend it... so they accept, and rationalize, and explain away things...

i have gone through more scrutiny than anyone employed at a company, as some of the work i do requires clearances... so no i'm not someone who uses drugs defending that practice...

i'm just able to see something for what it is, even through the haze of social condition and herd mentality...

:eek:This is interesting

Great

how did it ruin your life?Where do you want me to start? I've probably told this story on SciForums two or three times over the years.

I was addicted to tea coming out of college. I had only begun to understand that caffeine is a drug during my college years and the idea that it could be addictive was slow in taking root. In college you're always tired and you never get enough sleep so the correlation between those conditions and the effects of caffeine had to wait until I had graduated and settled into a more normal daily routine. Not to mention even though you're in college you're really stupid in a lot of ways and you just don't think about the simple routines of daily life.

By the time this all dawned on me my daily routine was to drag myself out of bed with less than zero mental and physical energy and in a really vile mood. A couple of cups of tea would open my eyes just wide enough and restore just enough IQ points that I could get dressed and find my way to work. They had just invented diet cola so I drank it all day. By bedtime I was exhausted but wired so I couldn't sink into a refreshing sleep, just toss and turn and often lie awake. Next morning I'd get up feeling worse than the previous morning and start the cycle over. Eventually I reached an equilibrium where I was always tired, always cranky, and always unable to sleep.

If I tried to break the cycle and go without caffeine on a weekend, vacation, or just take sick time, the withdrawal symptoms were so bad that I couldn't stand it. Muscle pain so bad that I would rather be dead. Angry, irrational, almost violent behavior so bad that the people around me would rather have had me dead too. Eventually my wife got tired of the abuse, the alienation of our few friends and my sabotaging of our lives with irrational behavior concerning everything from money to how to spend a weekend, and found somebody nicer.

I settled for a government job because they had no standards for behavior and very lenient standards for performance. The teenager who had been hailed as the smartest kid in my state was a dysfunctional adult hiding out at the bottom of the system.

Years later when I got to the point that I could dry out and get past the withdrawal symptoms, I had to deal with the other side of drug use, which is that it makes you feel good. Nothing perks up a slow day or a depressing day like a nip of caffeine. Nothing gives you that little extra mental or physical energy for a home improvement project, a long assignment at work or three hours on stage with your band, like caffeine.

That's enough details for now. I've been in and out of caffeine addiction throughout my life. I've made horrible decisions and even blown off jobs while zonked out on caffeine. Forty years later I have it under some semblance of control, but it still gets away from me every now and then. It's only been a few years since the last time I sabotaged a job with intemperate, caffeine-fueled behavior. I just had the old muscle-pain withdrawal symptoms last week and spent two days in a fog, listening to the tea, cola and chocolate calling out to me, "Oh come on Fraggle, just a little bit won't hurt and you'll feel so much better so quickly."

I spent three years on meth. daily. literally.
I'm off it now for about three years and in no danger of ever lapsing cuz its such a shit wrap.
Anywho, I couldn't come up with a sob story like that waa waa above if there weren't a writers strike.
Fraggle, maybe noone likes you and you need a behaviourally lenient job because yer an asshole. IDK just a thought. I mean coffee? please. Shoots some ice for a month or two and tell me how yer doin then.

EDIT:

To answer post #1.
Meth is its own chemical that is created through a series of chemical process combining and refining "common" chemicals. The pure meth is seperated from the rest, filtered, placed in distilled water which is boiled away to leave a crystalline residue. Thats what they test for and they can find even trace amounts. better wait 72 hours + before u piss

thanks for the info Mike.
I thought maybe they tested for drain cleaner or something.

Wow, I've worked for a few corporations and one government, never had to take a piss test. So much for land of the free....

Wow, I've worked for a few corporations and one government, never had to take a piss test. So much for land of the free....
I've also worked at several jobs including 30 years for the US Federal Government. I've also never had to take a piss test. That doesn't mean drug testing is not done for some sensitive jobs in both the US and Canada. Canadian example:
Air traffic controllers, flight dispatchers and flight service specialists commonly work in a computerized office environment. They regularly work long hours (rotating shifts 24 hours a day) and may have to work overtime during busy periods and emergency situations, and to maintain the minimum required level of staffing. The burden of responsibility for the safety of aircrafts over extended periods can be very stressful and exhausting.

Qualified individuals may be posted to any location in Canada. They may be required to re-locate to fill a vacant position or for promotions. An annual physical examination is required and a drug screening is a condition of continuing employment.
http://mb.jobfutures.org/profiles/profile.cfm?lang=en&noc=2272&site=graphic