Nothingness and Reality
Reality to us appears to be the Universe and all it entails. From our observation post here on Earth we see Energy/Mass in a grand assemblage of sizes, colors and shapes. However all is not as it seems because our perception has been limited by our hardwired line of reasoning which was designed by Natural Selection and DNA. For a start, consciousness does not exist, it only appears to us as if it does. Our experience is far too limited at the moment to understand fully, Reality. The Universe is an Absolute now which is the only thing in Existence. Space, Time, Energy/Mass and Gravity all exhibit the properties which they have because of their Existence in the Absolute Now. But Existence is not the only thing which is a part of Reality. Reality also encapsulates the concept known as Nothingness.

Remember our Universe came from the Nothingness and it is this Nothingness which is the main part of Reality. This of course leads us to the question - how could the Universe have been created from Nothingness? What process causes such a Phenomenon? I don't think we can ever know. We have enough trouble trying to work out the true nature of things, which are in Existence such as Space, Time, Energy/Mass and Gravity. Here, again, we are led astray by our localized environment at the low energy end of Existence. At the high energy end of Existence things are very different. One need only consider Black Holes to see how Existence obeys rules which are difficult for our minds to accept. However all the Entities we can consider are different manifestations of Reality whether we can understand them or not. Nothingness as against Existence is our best hope of furthering our understanding of Reality. Using this way of thinking we can see that the Universe is an Absolute Now and this is what Existence in Reality exhibits.

Nothingness in Reality is exactly as it is - Nothingness. It is the overriding concept - without Nothingness there is no Existence whereas Existence without Nothingness is not possible.

Reality has two faces, Existence (the Absolute Now of the Universe) and Nothingness. Reality has given us the Big Questions - why is there a Universe? Why is there Existence? Why is there Nothingness? And even, the biggest question of them all, why is there Reality? This last question is the only one we can answer and know we are correct in our answer.

And, the answer is - because there is. Reality Is because Reality Is. Reality Is whether there is Nothingness and Existence or whether there is some other state or states of Reality which are beyond our comprehension and experience.

Of course, this still leaves us with no description of the things we know are in Existence and in our Universe but if we use the concept of Nothingness in our investigation of Energy/Mass, Space, Time and Gravity we will get a better understanding of the tremendous occurrences inherent in the Universe.

OH! I did not Write this by the way. Text by Naveen Jagan.

An interesting aside to the above quote is that if we understand Einsteins work on light it becomes apparent that the absolute now is also of zero duration so with thi sin mind all that we see doesn't exist either except as a temporal memory or expectation.

The other interesting thing I thought I would write is that it is often said that we see light because it enters the eye and our eyes receptors signal the brain this information.
How ever I ask the question if this is the case then how is it we can see nothing as well. The space between the earth and the moon for example or the space that surrounds us in the night sky.
How can we something if it emmitts no light?

I look up at the sky and I see heaps of nothingness, and ask how is this possible if we can only see the light?

interesting question QQ, i remember you speaking about this type of thing in other threads in philosophy sections.

the location that the light travels through must have a structure that we cannot sense in any way through our 5 senses. the light is traveling through a formless structure (space/dao)with some sense of "form". the beam must not be independant, it must rely on the formless structure of space itself, the fabric of space must play some part in light and vision,

i have alot more to say about this subject but i just woke up and am groggy so i will reply later. and go reply and start some easy on the mind threads to warm my mind up :).


peace.

Hey PH, that dude wrote "for a start, consciousness does not exist. it only appears to us it does"

well. that is his opinion, but he straightway--notice-asserts it as to it is THE truth. but it aint.its just his opinion. whoeve he is....?

actually. i much m,ore find it plausibloe that cnsciousness very MUCH does exist. for it is how matter-energy FEELS. that is thepoint--please chackout here, you will get a more in-depth feel of what i man www.deepspirit.com and explore where he explores abpout consciousness

yeah. conscipusness is ALWAYS wit matter-energy. consciousness ISN't matter-energy, and matter-energy isn't consciousness. but they are ALWYS togther. for it is obviously absurd o imagine matter-energy cannot feel. tho the materialistic scientists, and all those following the materialistic philosophy-which is tis current pradigm--will believe this to be the case

for te materialist myth is that 'complex' matter 'PRODUCES' consciousness

yea :) but the cool Part Is that it makes For Wicked Cool Conversation Hehehe

yea :) but the cool Part Is that it makes For Wicked Cool Conversation Hehehe
Ya mamma..heh

with out sounding overly funny, I have to wonder if Dark matter doesn't also exist in Milli Micro's With in our brains. I mean this Curiously... tho it is Funny. I really Do not "Agree" personally with what all Was written mrs/mr. jagan.... But I DO think its worth looking at.
How ever I have experience things that... are just not explainable at all. Well ok .. I COULD Accept my "Label" or Diagnosis, But that's not going to EXPLAIN anything. so With my Pick, I dig through other thoughts that some times have answers and some times have dead ends. one thing I am Truly sure about is that What it will always boil down too is ourselves. Thinking as positive as Possible is good. So Finding positivness in Nothingness helps connect a circle. I think. When there is Nothing, then Everything is possible. So I find through Depression.

they USED to call 'depression' melancholia

if you ever get the chance and if you like reading--non fiction, get a copy of Thomas Szasz' great book The Manufacture of Madness: A Comparative Study Between The Inquisition and the Mental Health Movement

i thought up this new word tother day. 'monoconsciousness'. i assumed itmust be know, but googled it and only got one reference. someposter at a forum saying it

i came up with it after seeing this advert about 'mood swings' which was for tose with 'mental health problems'
as u may know, usually monoculture, etc is really a bummer. life loves diversity. i see this culture oppressing monofukinconsciousness on everyone

doesn't this belong in the philosophy forum? :confused:

doesn't this belong in the philosophy forum? :confused:
no...as far as we are aware this forum is open house for free thoughts...

I Love Philosophy, and I Fear it.... Perhaps it's because there are so many "angles" that are RIGHT to one question. That and those with much schooling, in my opinion from based on research I have done, tend to be Directed through what they have "learned" from others when they give their Response. I just don't want to Battle My True Experiences and perceptions with a scholar. I would rather the scholar, or average "Joe/Jane" give not only their incite, but experience to. even If Chemically reacting Neurons force Delusions, it still doesn't make that "delusional" experience unreal. I dig for more possibilities in the same way people Buy Lotto tickets. There is a CHANCE out there that Instead of this Being Delusional, it is just a new pathway the mind has taken to show "more" of what is out there.... Ok I think My Head popped ... more one this later.\But the REALL Tricky part, is I am Looking for idead's from people, Not opening them up to debate that "there way, backd by science, IS THE way."... LIke I said I have experienced things that manifeted Physicly that,, No one can seem to explain, and theory on WHY this happens is Oh So welcome ....

Main Entry: ex·is·ten·tial·ism
Pronunciation: -'ten(t)-sh&-"li-z&m
Function: noun
: a chiefly 20th century philosophical movement embracing diverse doctrines but centering on analysis of individual existence in an unfathomable universe and the plight of the individual who must assume ultimate responsibility for his acts of free will without any certain knowledge of what is right or wrong or good or bad
*smile* I should have done that sooner. I am afraid my Situation in the meanings of understand Langue, Well Lacks. You see, MY hole existence is based on Emotion and gut feeling. I suppose it brings a sixth sense to my Understand and acceptance of my Uniqueness. Which may also explain my hateful out bursts and quick response to apologies.... *sigh... My "Label" is this, Manic Depressive.
Main Entry: man·ic-de·pres·sive
Pronunciation: "ma-nik-di-'pre-siv
Function: adjective
: characterized either by mania or by depression or by alternating mania and depression
- manic-depressive noun
Each Manic expressive in just as unique as any individual. It is just the Emotional boundaries are harder to control then they would be for other people or "Majorities"... Many people experience "Episodes" of Mania And/or Depression at Different time in there life. Usually through Puberty. How ever some times it is begins in a child through to adult hood. The Anger and emotional out Breaks associated with manic Depression can be dangerous for the "simple bye stander"... That might explain the many pills to halt such conditions. Again, and in most cases, this tendency to becoming so emotional one becomes harmful, Chemicals in the form of pills are required. this is to keep the majority and their accepted rules or how-to behave in life, More comfortable while shutting up/out the things that are not understood.

With this, it sets up for a Lonely existence for any "sufferers Of this "Condition" or Possibilities evolution. We shun what is not majority in order to keep an Economical balance. THAT Enplanes the behavior or SOME people. It' a category. Bur one thing the Scientists and Psychologist find it that, in some case, these "Abnormal" mentally Processing people exhibit behaviors that our outside the jurisdiction of that they have accepted as "normal"... This put people who experience on a different Frequencies levels, things that aren't explainable. Things that do not fit in side the "norm" of majority. This intern makes the person who experiences these anomalies flood i=with negative emotions. Some times these feelings turn in to Negative or destructive thing that do NOT fit into a "Majority" of what most accept and Experience. Some times I feel there is a sense of Jealousy and hostility because the "normy" Can not empathize in what is happening to the "patient". Government there for must assume this behavior in "wrong"... and "wrong" is a Negative thing. The is were the shunning come from, and the 'ever watchful eye.' When a group of people, who can ignore age and race, come together, they can Share experiences and the actions they took to KEEP those thought/and experience, while living in a world that does not accept them. Should you Believe in what was written about Jesus, he must have experience similar things. But he TRIED to show that certain blue prints MIGHT help Progress the future of man kind. How ever, many other felt it was alright to stay in their own groups, and thus this Man was slain. Im not saying this from a Christian view, but a moral view, and a Written event. (Whether is be true or False, there WERE situations made under Acts against god )
So... MOST people will not be plagued with Visually Hallucinations. Does this make the experience to that person NOT Real? Of course not. Just because it hasn't manifested into a FORM that all Can experience, it was certainly true the person who experienced it! That goes back to the "Blind and Color" Analogy. Instead of being "strangest and shunned" we SHOULD talk about these things. There every Day joe/jane who does not face these issues with say they doe not exist. And yet here we are saying "I just experienced this! how can you say it does not exist?" The Ultimate answers, should you wish to work in society under their rules. is Psychology and Medication. Yet NO seems interested in the mental frequency going on. And it is on the Rise. I could bore you with statistics, but I feel you both know this already. So... Where Do we go from here? How about Experiences tied in with the FIRST Initial emotions felt, Then The Situation. Chances are, we are more Right, and advanced, AND Lonely .... especially when pills are shoved down our throats to bring us even more trapped in our minds. A shrink Reading this, may Call it Delusional Grandiose feelings. My GUT.... Screams Evolution. How do you feel about this? We could talk one the hallucinations" experienced, (Hallucination meaning only experienced in the mind an idea and start from there, as long as we promise not to Judge each other, yet, give our OWN Personal experiences. Does this Sound appealing? It may help Bring a Phosphorescent light to what may be happens rather the "Light themajority has agreed on."
I would LOVE to know more your both your experiences. I do not like feeling
Lonely in this. esspecialy .... when some of these Uposed "halucinations"/Phantoms/ Intuition has becae a full tangable reality. some say Self propnacy, and they I must have the circome stances mixed to explsain my situation.. that is why I keep a jouranl

Eachone of us is philosopher. I Find in most chats about philosophy, People use past philosophers and their quotes in order to explain there own as "FACT. "fast does not fit intp Philosoph. When One disagrees with the philosopher they are considered Un education enough to have a Value to their point, and are then Overly looked passed. This thread is open to the fact that NO ONE is wrong. We are all just full of many ideas and feedback. Frankly I Find it a cop out to recite any other philosophy work as "fact".. that misleads the whole point of philosophy.
Also, I will state this as ONLY my opinion.

PHPlatonica, those posts ARE SOME IF NOT theMOST HONEST, INSIGHTFUL, HEARTFELT, EEP, LOVVING POSTS I HAVE READ AT ANY FORUM--just looked up and its in caps. ut it desn't matter.....emphasis is welcome

dont know where to begin to answer cause what you sayhas so many good insights

yeah. we are all philosophers. and all creative. but many are crushed down by the games being played in culture

look. i have spoken MUC about te scam mental helthmovement. not only here but other forums. one post went on to 99fukin post in some kinda duel between me and tis other dude....i got last word...hehe

i go on this: ther is NO existing evidence that 'mental illness' is a 'biological disease' NONE. so...WHE people are TOLD this it is misinformed consent. and wit tat we have people takin shit called 'medication' for a 'disease' tha desn't exist

BUT, i am not saying people are EXPERIENCING stuff. and like you rightly say. instead of this misinformation/lying. That tere should be natrual ned for UNDERstanding what is going on. othersise more harm is down. which is actually happened. people take their so-called 'meds' and it can harm the central nervous system! this greatly goes against te Hippocratic Oath which states 'Do No Harm'

does this mean i am saying people should NOT take 'meds'?no. what i am saying is fot people to be told and KNOW the actual, and not te false information. for esale here www.mindfreedom.org the people are psychiatric survivors, and recetly wen on a hunger strike to challenge te APA to PROVE mental llness was biologically disease---read what happened in its archives. some tere do choose to take meds, but only becae they xhoose to. power of choice. but they PROMOTE good food, good environment, people to talk to etc etc. ie., they are aware of the oppresive set-up of tis culture!

meant to say "but i am not saying people AREN'T experiencings stuff"

LOL, I caught that. I am Fluent intypo.
I don't deny I hear voices, "Hallucinate"... and live with a man who Doesn't believe it happens.I had once wrote in another post that
Wow, Thank you. I suppose in some senses I take that part For granted. being locked within your own head is one thing, But people locking you into your Own Head Is another. To be honest, I never meant to survive. I don't feel that there is this omnipotent Power looming over with a magic staff saying "I chose You to Go and Heal All those that are like you." ... Infact, I usually Let sleeping Dogs lay.... but There's and Urgency Here in Brent that I feel, and remember feeling all my life. And there is a Dark Path in the fork on the Road he his on that I truly Hope he doesn't fallow, because the same results cane be reached by different Roads. People are Brutal.... People Fear what they Do Not understand... And most people don't have the capacity to Empathies that maybe, Just maybe there's a bit more to this World. There's a kindred here. Age isn't an issue. The Condition in itself is hard enough to face with all the other abstract physics of the "normal" world while dealing with things that are not "Tangibly There" Not just Hallucinations, but Emotions too. They will not go "away" there's no Magic pill (That lasts)... I explain it like this for people who Can't understand. Think about how a Blind person Perceives "COLOR"... They Can't ever see it. there for they're Experience of "color" Does not exist for them. Now Reverse that. Say Every one Is Blind Except for YOU. YOU Get to experience not only Color, but light, and Shades and Depth Perception. Pictures. Do you think that the majority, or the "Blind" possibly could believe you? Of course they couldn't They Couldn't comprehend what is going on with you. And that would be Scary to them. They would Insist you wore a blind fold to "become more like them"... and They would Shun you. Then One day you meet some one who Also "sees" But that person has a different perspective and interpretation of what is being experienced. So Tho Alike, Your still at odds. And it is Ultimately up to YOU what you will do with those "colors" and things you find in Site...
Does that Help to get a feel for what it is like to "hallucinate" or Vibrate to a different Frequency? ANY Way.... LOL... Kinda Deep in here... It's a tough place to be. and It is lonely too.
it is the only way I know how to describe the "EXPERIENCE" only.
Even divulging that, doesn't make it any less/more real. It is an attempt at empathy.
But then, there's my own personal experiences too.. where the "visions" or "Hallucinations" were correct. How can this BE if it is all just in my head.
With medications, when the Ugly side becomes persistent, I will take them. But I am told To take them Daily. That leaves me Overweight, drooling on my self, and locked in my head WITH These demons (Or what ever they are. So Much more research needs to be done. But with many law's it makes the research impossible. ANd even if you "hide away" with your subjects, and come up with a tangible explanation, you are condemned for doing it "illegally"... How then Can the pharmaceutical companies do this legally? Its such a hard place. Because in the end, it Boils down to ME and other's like me. Shouldn't we have our Own Say?

Y E S. fuck psychiatry/psychology. they --in their bio-mode espcially are the new 'priests' of this age. whose mai aim it is to keep people socially controlled, and oppressed under the materialistic paradigm

this is not to condemn ALL forms of psychology and psychiatry. for exzmple, oneof THE biggest exposers of te bio-psychiatry scam is Thomas Szasz who was psychiatrist--not BIO-psychiatrist

Ad we have in the psychology field people like Ralph Metzner who is a Radical Ecopsychologist, ---ie., understanding the relevance of howmodern culture opppresses us from our primal interelationship with Nature, andits prohibitions against our freedoms for exploring ecstasy inpired with psychedelic substances

what we are against is te coercive lying scam which is the facistic bio-psychiaty, which now is--with power ofcourts etc--being ble to take oer reponsibility of children from parents. ie., to tak children away from their parents if refuse to believe 'diagnoses' that their children have 'ADHD', 'depression' and need 'medication' etc!!
this ---you cannot get any fukin lower than this.

you know PH, surely from your grgariousness in these forums tis ever-prominent mindset. example see it in sudoforums. people claim to experience, and efven just see things. nd out pop the materialist devotees ready with their labels, callin people 'whackos' 'woo woos' etc. as u can see, tis attitude runs right thru all the institutions odf this materialistic ideology. it is O P P R E SS ION

One thing I Ponder about Duendy, What if this "So Called" Mental Illness isn't really just a for of Evolution?

One thing I Ponder about Duendy, What if this "So Called" Mental Illness isn't really just a for of Evolution?
Don't knowif yu know anything of Monica Sjoo. She was one of the artists and authors of The Great Cosmic Mother: Rediscovering the Religion of the Earth, which she co-autored with Barbara Mor

She argues it is the partiarchal oppression of female sexuality that has greatly atrophied evolution for our specis
es

of course along with suppression of 'EROS'
goes suppression of our Depth, which includes freedom of emotional and spiritual expression..!

The materialistic culture fears all that because it threatens thie r hierachical structure, which includes mindcontrol as social control

Don't knowif yu know anything of Monica Sjoo. She was one of the artists and authors of The Great Cosmic Mother: Rediscovering the Religion of the Earth, which she co-autored with Barbara Mor

She argues it is the partiarchal oppression of female sexuality that has greatly atrophied evolution for our specis
es

of course along with suppression of 'EROS'
goes suppression of our Depth, which includes freedom of emotional and spiritual expression..!

The materialistic culture fears all that because it threatens thie r hierachical structure, which includes mindcontrol as social control

Did u know you have a double?
This post is very literate but if you travel to the post re Fate v Free Will (under free thought) you will see the last one written under your name bears no resemblance either literally or otherwise, I raise the question are these two styles really written by the same person or are there two duendy's?

its under my name? that is odd.... I will Have to check that out. Thank you!!

its under my name? that is odd.... I will Have to check that out. Thank you!!
PH warnin warnin. the relativityone is A bitch. she'salready bee slung out of someothe forum, andits becomin apparent why. a troll fo sure....chekout the free will thread of hers. i tried to be alright with her and she was determined to diss me. so......she's dead. haha

Agreed~
I also dig some "digging" (no not in my nose) bu the Web and found this, which I think is ..... well Interesting and goes back to what I said about "evolution"you Guys tell me what you think..... We all know theres Ducks out there..... Or is it Quaks? I never get it right.... but here is the URL Negitive, Positive, No feelings and additions are completly welcome.... If any thing, it makes MIND jello... Or is that foof for thought?

http://skepdic.com/indigo.html

Agreed~
I also dig some "digging" (no not in my nose) bu the Web and found this, which I think is ..... well Interesting and goes back to what I said about "evolution"you Guys tell me what you think..... We all know theres Ducks out there..... Or is it Quaks? I never get it right.... but here is the URL Negitive, Positive, No feelings and additions are completly welcome.... If any thing, it makes MIND jello... Or is that foof for thought?

http://skepdic.com/indigo.html


YIkES! I Dont know what to think ... Then again, nothing is "personal" on the web... which reminds me theres some pictures I should take off the web.......... ,HAHAHAA jk jk

YIkES! I Dont know what to think ... Then again, nothing is "personal" on the web... which reminds me theres some pictures I should take off the web.......... ,HAHAHAA jk jk
I've read it before, and personally dont like it at all. itreminds me of tis thing done with kids in the 1960s where some kids wee told they were thick cause the had brown eyes, and others bright and good cause they had blue eyes. veryquickly the brow-eyed kids were sobbing and lookin pretty misreable! and the blue eyed ones all smug

Main Entry: phi·los·o·phy
Pronunciation: f&-'lä-s(&-)fE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -phies
Etymology: Middle English philosophie, from Old French, from Latin philosophia, from Greek, from philosophos philosopher
1 a (1) : all learning exclusive of technical precepts and practical arts (2) : the sciences and liberal arts exclusive of medicine, law, and theology <a doctor of philosophy> (3) : the 4-year college course of a major seminary b (1) archaic : PHYSICAL SCIENCE (2) : ETHICS c : a discipline comprising as its core logic, aesthetics, ethics, metaphysics, and epistemology
2 a : pursuit of wisdom b : a search for a general understanding of values and reality by chiefly speculative rather than observational means c : an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs
3 a : a system of philosophical concepts b : a theory underlying or regarding a sphere of activity or thought <the philosophy of war> <philosophy of science>
4 a : the most general beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an individual or group b : calmness of temper and judgment befitting a philosopher

There For we ARE our own Philosophers. Bipolar or any other lable that plays out there.
This Place Gives us a chance to be right and wrong all at the same time. The "catch" is keeping an Unconditional open Mind on others Veiws with out name calling or Badgering.
All Opionions are subject to change when new idea present them selves. Let us NOT Judge one another when We sound hypocrytical, rather BEAT THEM UP! Just kidding.... But rather inqure where the NEW thought Came from. It's a Constant Slap on the Rules of human kind when we do this. So Any opinion is welcome, even if it is :PHPlatonica You spell like rotten dog pooh." It's up to me how I will Repond to a post like that. If I let it alone, it will disapere.

I swear, like every one else, I look For Answers in a World Of Questions.
I have often cried out for help, or perhaps, was that Jerk who Gave you a dirty look for no reason you Could find... The Dirty Look was the scowl on my Face, and Unfortunately my face was pointed in your Direction. all Of which Means nothing but a mild Burn on ones soul for a moment.
But that isn't important. inside all of us, It would Be a great awe to know why the hell we are here. We look into Arts, sciences, Laws & Rules, Psychiatry, Philosophy to find Answers to Questions that just mightnot exist at all.
When we Fail our Point, all "faults" are pointed out to us. Whether they be "your Grammar Sucks ass" "you've posted to many typos"... etc... these are all just a bunch of cop outs to the question at hand. The one that No one is able to answer for any one else. Life is it's own journey. it is different for each experiencing it. To Pretend we have all the facts is a large misguiding road map. BUT Should we stop Pondering the existence of it all, then we are no better then stagnant water Mildewing in Geese's Feces.
That is why there is an Impossibility to have a wrong or right Answer to every question.
Disagreeing is not a bad thing... nor is agreeing. But "Factualising" will be the down fall of all Human Kind. There for All thoughts are subject to Change (Evolution) and Opinions Possible Road maps to the larger picture of life.
To Day I Find my Self in self Hatred. I share this not for your Pity, but because of the Above sentence. It is up to me to Find a way out of this uncomfortable mess. Hatred is a Philosophy with in itself. To Exist when One is filled with rage and anger Doesn't change the existence. The perception of the person Occupying the Sensation is the only one who can answer that question. I was told I write On and ON and ON... and of course I do... I lack the ability to not think and share. But the Picture I have painted to day comes from the Darkest parts of filth that hold my every fear and tingle in all five senses. This Make me Yearn for a 6 th sense in it's untouched and innocent nature that we, as humans, are to Negative to hold onto and perceive in the Physical existence of life.
And I Still Feel an Urge Of Hatred toward myself for feeling all of this.

I looked at the morning today, and Despised what I saw.
Was this Jealousy I wondered, But the sky I wished to Claw.

My Anger Grew like weed Wrapped in Roses.
My Feelings Thrashed out to all who apposes.

Is this a Depression I ask through my Rage?
Or is this God's joke, where Im locked in this Cage?

I took to many pills, to tame the chemical imbalance.
and watched as the Sky Mocked me with Malice.

That was my Perception this morning of Hate.
To bring forth this entity and poke it through a Gate.

Why Does Seam of time wither and fail?
its Breakage untangled, times threads hang as a tail.

you are told to not end it, your life that Im Seeking..
But it is hard to hold onto, when your not sure if God's Speaking.

it is said in Philosophy that every thing has been Done.
Does this mean the human race is over? Have we no where to Run?

But there Must be something, that means a lot More.
An Empty Direction. Perhaps A hidden Secret Door.

Oh But it is all these words that hold Power, and the Raven
Ever more.

powerful poem from the heart.
my ONLY critiqe. personally. is where you speak of 'correcting chemcial imbalance' which i see as prt of the cage....!...te'cage' being the lie. te psycholgical-propaganda matrix of opprssion which also is ACTUAL environmental oppression

please read some of this poet PH. i only found out about him mysefl a coupla weeks back. i was watching tis docu bout poets called The Romantics. of course i was fairly familiar with Wordsworth, Blake, etc. but tis guy, no. he was called the 'peasant poet' and was very much a pagan/country dweller, and got his inspiration for his poems etc by frredom of roaming in the wilds

abouty 1809 the industrial revolutions evil tentacles reaches his part of te woods then began 'The Enclosures' where common land was forcibly taken from the people, and in place are 'NO TRESPASS!' signs everyfukin where and John Clare losing such VASt freedom eventually went 'mad'......hhhmmmmjust trid to find u a link to his poems. am sure i've posted links somewhere inthese forums. i'll try and find tem . you MUSt read them, tey are so .......

herew it is , poems of John Clare
www2.phreak.co.uk/tlio/history/clare.html

-herew it is , poems of John Clare
www2.phreak.co.uk/tlio/history/clare.html
try agin
http://www2.phreak.co.uk/tlio/history/clare.html
fingers croxed

OH Duendy... Wow, Thank you Those were so Wonderfully correct to me... thank you for that. :)

OH Duendy... Wow, Thank you Those were so Wonderfully correct to me... thank you for that. :)
your really welcome. i am glad i have introduced him to you

Today I Realized a Lot of things. Of course, I forgot each thing I Realized, but I remember the feeling of Realization.............. Wow hu?
So... Knowing that I Realized SOMETHING, I wondered, "was it not important since I don't remember what it was?"
I Bring this Delusional Thought to My Husband. He Smiles, Pats me on the Shoulder and Hands me My Daily Medication.
Of course, when this Is done, I smile Back, Pat him on the Shoulder. Thank him, and proceed to the restroom where I Drop the pills into the Toilette. I watch them Dissolve into little cluster fucks of chemical goo, then Flush the Toilette Wondering if any Bacteria Germs there in May Benefit From this Drug I Did Not Ingest.
I Go to the lap top, Pick it up, look around my "tomb" and wonder where is it I should sit to write about absolutely nothing?
I find a decent Spot, Open Sciforms. And Begin Typing.
The Loneliness Of not being heard, but Drugged Knaws at the back of my neck. Feeling this I wish To Run out the Door and keep Running. But I Wonder "Where is it I would run too?"
Not Wanting to be Looked at as a Homeless Nit, I chose to stay indoors. I look about the house and suppose maybe I am ungrateful for the things I have. There are starving people in Numerous places who would Love to be where I am at. Of Course I mean this Physically. Mentally they would be in my same state of Mind. I feel they would not like that.
I play around in world Designed for children called "Neopets".... I have fun Doing this.
How ever, there is no Progression in playing with something that really has no Beneficial Value other then keeping my Mind Occupied Long enough that I forget about the Razor blade I Hid above the Door way. Oops, Now I remember where it is. And this Neopian World becomes a Saddened reality that shows I have nothing of nothing to do.
Hhmm... I think this to my self... not that "Hhmm" Mean's Anything, because surely it is just a sound when one is pondering something. So with my Hhmm I think About the Razor. I am Too Far down the hole of depression to Reach up and Take the razor "down the high way".... I look up the word for Depression, and I Find that It doesn't seem to apply.... Or... Wait... Maybe it does!... Then I think about all the happy germs that must be swimming in the Pipes headed off to the sewage system. I would Bet they don't Feel like Dying at all.... but I do... only For a moment though. Because then I Wonder "What if this emptiness' repeats itself through the rest of eternity for me? "Dude that would Suck" I say aloud. Suicide is OUT.
But here I still am. In a State of..... Despair? But Why? Nothing unparticular has taken place that should Bring me to the edge of this Dark Confusing existence.
hhmm.... Chemical? Could it Really Possibly Be a Chemical thing? Something I am Not producing so my Neurons are miss firing? I Like this answer to an extant. Because it take the Blame and Focus off of my Person. How ever... that means all my Idea's, arts and thoughts would have to be chemical too. I do NOT like that. I feel those things I do Are Mine, and Not secretions of serotonins. catch 22....
who am I?.... Should I do the world a "Favor" and try to become a part of it?
No. I Decide... I Have tried that and My Thoughts and behavior is not wanted. Too extreme I am afraid. And Favor Does not Fit into the Category of Plato and economy.
Well now what? Am I a Soul? Or am I a Chemical Concoction gone Hay wire? What thoughts is there left to think when one is so below everything she does?
An Medical Dr. Would See this as a Sever form or "state" of Depression, and take all means necessary to halt,Prohibit, stop the behavior in any way shape and form..Isn't this a hypocritical contradiction? I Could shoot up Heroine and feel Great for some time, but that is bad. Or I could be Given and antipsychotic that blurs my Functioning, and confuses me, and that is economically "good"... Your see, when this is done I am "no longer a danger to myself or Others.".... this is Where Society has decided to play god.
What... if any.... are your thoughts? :confused:

PHP,
The topic of suicide has always been an issue of great vexation. When confronted with a person who is seriously considering such an action many can not even find the words to express how they feel about it all let alone come to an understanding about what a person is thinking of doing to them selves and every one else.

It is scarey offereing advice and talking about this issue. Possibly because we feel that it is a pivotal discussion or a discussion that could lead to many ramifications that we do not necessarilly wish for.

So usually the threat of suicide is met with silence as we discover just how impotent we are in being able to change a persons mind about doing it.

Some will attempt to throw positives at a person, trying to show a person reason to go on, but always it is a gamble or a speculation that may be , just maybe some of that positiveness will rub off and afford a reason to postpone or delay any action by the person contemplating such a thing.

I have had many an interview with persons on this part of their journey in life and there are many common themes that could be discussed.

The most iimportant of theme is that when a person is thinking of suicide they are actually wishing to claim back an ability to choose. They are attempting to self determine their future and for some suicide or merely thinking about it allows them to actually gain control of their life and circumstances for ususally the very first time in their lives.

Afterall the only person able to make this decision is the person contemplating it.

I have often thought that the act or thoughts of suicide is really about self empowerment, The drve to say to the universe, "F*ck you I am out of here" thus telling every one and the universe [ "God" ] that no one has control over this decision except you not even God. A form of emotional blackmail that is mooted in reality. A plea for something to change in your life so that it would not be necessary for such an act.

But most of all I see this point in your decsion making process as a point at which if you choose to live you do so knowing [for a while at least] that you have made a choice to go on thus empowering you in the knowledge that your life is in your own hands and not someone elses and that life is a voluntary choice to suffer some more. For life is suffering, let there be no doubt about it. It is only how well we suffer that makes a difference.

In some ways suicide is also decision to remove the opportunity that you offer reality to present itself to you, to present solutions and to present reasons for going on. By suicide you remove the opportunity not only for more sufference but also for more potential joys and healing.

Suicide is always possible but living is not.......

So I would suggest that if you are going to think about suicide, think about it properly if you can. Learn from your feelings about it all, and if after you have learned all there is to know about it's psychology and still decide to do it then at least you have made an informed decision.

Learn about the sense of oppression that is driving the need to achieve that ultimate voluntary state. Learn how you are fighting for your right to determine your future and that somehow this fight is being brought to you by forces unknown.

"To be or not to be is both the question and answer"

*Possibly every one wants you to live yet all you want is the ability to make that choice.

So tell me, when do you not have this choice?

---------------------

*Those who know my thoughts about SDV's [ self determination violations ] will find this relevant

:( Ouch........... Truthful... I Do not wish to Slice the thread that Binds.
I was just angry and spoiled and thought that Science could take a look into all my Faults and Pull out the "Sliver Of Masochism" from my Paw.....
When a "child" Cries to the Deaf Dose it make the Sadness any less real? :(

This site rocks

That was one of the most interesting damn sentence/question things i've heard. It's like it's all of you screaming in one sentence.

More than likely, it still is possible for your happiness to shine through, it may take some time though. One of the most interesting things i've read is simple, it's 2 words, "Know thyself"

When that happens, and only when that happens, you can say things truthful about yourself in every stance. Every dance.

Today I Realized a Lot of things. Of course, I forgot each thing I Realized, but I remember the feeling of Realization.............. Wow hu?

I know this exact.

i experienced this when I was living by myself and going crazy trying to do something that would help. I smoked weed with friends a lot, and wan't able to even hang around my friends easy at all. I think today that my realizations were somewhat harmful, as well as trying to hard to get out of a ditch in one step. I should have taken things easier, slower, with more security.

Extreme states and such are crap.

I found my Little Problem as I walked about the house......
Today I turned torture over For a better View....
The Emptiness I Desired was a gift Indeed.... one that was wanted. One I should have heed-ed.
The house crackled and splintered in little white noises. The decorations all around that no one will ever see. The Vase's I Bought to hide the empty wall. The Soft Runner Down the wooden planked hall. No More Echo's Would Come from this wall.
The white noises were louder then they were from the start. My Eye Turned into a tear from the bottom of my Heart.. And now I am Rhyming because it is right.... that and my Brain is to tired to fight..... Suicide solutions were nothing but Shit...... I sit in the hall now away from all... of..... it......
The sound and the laughter I thought I could hear........ Turned out to be two Fucking cats wrestling in heat..... So Hope Did fall.
Im sitting still inside of this hall.... there has to be something, There's Nothing at all.
Can you hear me in my whispered wet voice........ Is it by me or is it your choice?
Rocking back and forth and wondering will it stop? How dose emptiness' "stop" when It is empty................there was nothing there again. My Perception of Love lust hate and anger grew like a sad little thread............
Nothing in Emptiness' hurts very much.............. It is awareness' I forget to Embrace. It is Awareness' that Trickles Down my Face........
Soft Sigh to float down the hall to the symphony of white noises...... I pick my self up and caress the Darkness Like Rosés..... So Dying was sad to watch as I Saw it... Wont come back home. But I am Left here in the Place with the Noises, and I Forget how time works and stops. No more crying there isn't enough room. I will have to stand up, and Face off my Doom.

PH, your words you compose i found VERY powerful. have you shared them in any publications...? i feel you should

a lot of what ou write gives me shivers. cause i sense the honesty inthem

so see it. or i see. this honesty, creativity, creaTION, is really what oppressive culture fears and decides to pathologize and drug away. for it exposes them. their prisonhouse

manypeople are expected to PRETEND thwir not opprssed and not even mention it to themselves
Alan Watts called this the main 'double bind' of this culture

hence we have million and millions on 'meds' made to believe they are sick

QQ, thanks for your post. Good stuff. :)

No, I have Published nothing. I am just a regular girl in search of something more then what is Fed to me by psychiatry, Behaviorism and the such.
It's been a long dark road. And I am afraid that when I do reach "light" I will Burn for I have been in the dark searching for too long....

No, I have Published nothing. I am just a regular girl in search of something more then what is Fed to me by psychiatry, Behaviorism and the such.
It's been a long dark road. And I am afraid that when I do reach "light" I will Burn for I have been in the dark searching for too long....
have you never thought of creating a blog?
i know others would be moved by how you write....in all its creativity...yu know, using caps, etc. the whole aesthetic you use

it' just a thought. it wouod be a two waything. it would help ou express amoions, help others, they would also be encouraged to express themselves.......think about it. as far as i know, blogs are fairly easy to start wit help from Google
as well as here of course. not trying to blog yu off...hehe

Haha :) Well, I will think about it :) and thank you

Haha :) Well, I will think about it :) and thank you
LOVE your signature. yu are really creative...please share it wit a many people as poss