This might seem like some sort of conspiracy theory, but the truth is that there is a lot of information saying that these peace protests were nothing more than Communist parties excuses to promote their parties, and to bash the democracies for all they are worth. According to some journalists attending the protests, these were less protests against the war and more protests against Republicans and capitalism itself. I can certainly understand that the liberals and communists(isn't that such a dirty word?Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! )would want to use this issue as an excuse to speak out, but given that isn't it more likely they protesting just to protest, and not because the war is genuinely a bad idea. Links bashing the protests. http://www.chronwatch.com/featured/contentDisplay.asp?aid=1625 Article from World Socialist Website http://frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6174 http://www.aim.org/publications/aim_report/2003/3.html Bah... have to go to bed, but if you search Google news you can find plenty of info. What do you guys think of this?
This is true actually. International A.N.S.W.E.R.( Act Now to Stop War and End Racism), which organized the last big protest in DC is largely controlled by a group called the Workers World party, which most people consider a Stalinist group. For discussion of this coming from the left: http://www.infoshop.org/texts/wwp.html The Feb 15 demonstration was not organized by any communist group, as far as I know, but many participated. Although I have my problems with all of the communist organizations I've encountered I do not see any problem with them participating and helping to plan these demonstrations. Many of them are of the opinion that the upcoming war is inextricably connected to the issues of imperialism and capitalism and that such wars are in fact inherent in the system. The fact that these people participate in or are even responsible for organizing these demonstrations does not mean that more moderate opponents of the war are not welcome nor does their participation mean that they are advocating the views put forth by the communist groups.
If you are going to imply that anyone with leftist (or even anti-war) tendencies is a communist or associated with communists then you must, out of fairness, imply that anyone with right-wing tendencies is a fascist. And regardless, what does it matter if some were protesting against war, some were protesting against the current American regime, and some were protesting against American capitalism? How can you possibly separate these issues? They are all intimately linked.
If I implied that, it is my mistake. I prefer to think that the more moderate Democrats are being manipulated by the Communist parties who are organizing this. I've heard that many who attend the protests never knew what they were really going to until they were there. It ends up looking like they are supporting things that they really don't. As most of those websites said, many of these "peace" protests had things like "Assasinate Bush", blah blah, "Hitler and Bush, relatives" and other stupid brainwashing propoganda. The even bigger problem is that some impressionable kids eat it up(neo-Communists?). We end up with more anti-americans across the seas than we need, all because of Communist manipulations. They have an agenda of destroying capitalism. Not saying we should stop them, just inform people. Communists are about as fascist as any true-blue fascist, from what I can tell, with their totalitarian governments and state control Everything is linked. Usually, when the Republicans lose an election, do they go out of their way to make hell for the Democrats? I don't know, haven't seen enough elections. What my point was is that these people are protesting against the war for the wrong reasons, and it could come back to hurt us.
Balder, Facism is at the opposite end of the political spectrum from communism. Communism can refer to many things. In the United States, it is most widely associated with Stalinism as a result of decades of anti-communist propaganda. To those who are knowledgable about the political philosophy of Communism, however, the meaning is very different. Marx and Engels philosophy is not at all recognizable in Stalin's "communism", which did in fact bear more similarities to facism than true communism.
As I said, from what I can tell, fascism and communism seem the same. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Thanks for clarifying(and I sorta knew about that already), but to be honest, is that communism you talk about in place anywhere other than paper? :bugeye: All "communist" regimes that I know of have a fascist way of doing things.
No it does not exist anywhere put on paper, it has never really had a chance to be tryed. After the Russian Revolution where the Bolsheviks seized power, the country was attacked and isolated by other countries fearful of the rebellion spreading, as a result it became impossible for communism to function as there simply weren't enough resources to give everyone a good standard of living. That combined later with Stalin's paranoia and madness to destroy any chance of the creation of a real "workers state" China's "communism"(and to a lesser extent Cuba's) in my opinion were based more on Stalin's totalitarian government than on the original meaning of the word.
If I implied that, it is my mistake. I prefer to think that the more moderate Democrats are being manipulated by the Communist parties who are organizing this. This does sound like a conspiracy theory. Sure, maybe Communist parties participated, but does anybody expect me to give a flying fuck? Perhaps they helped organise it, but I somehow doubt that they were the sole organisers of protests, or even the majority. I've heard that many who attend the protests never knew what they were really going to until they were there. ... It ends up looking like they are supporting things that they really don't. Yes, because no non-Commie-bastard American would in their right mind promote... As most of those websites said, many of these "peace" protests had things like "Assasinate Bush", blah blah, "Hitler and Bush, relatives" and other stupid brainwashing propoganda. ...that kind of brainwashing propaganda. No, that isn't stupid brainwashing propaganda-- if it were, your brain would be washed, and chances are it would be very easy to believe. Propaganda is generally something that DOES infiltrate the population and that ends up changing the opinion of quite a few-- so chances are, if it doesn't have the least bit of an effect on you, it isn't propaganda, and if at the blink of an eye you will declare signs that call for Bush's asassination or compare Bush to Hitler propaganda, chances are you have been compromised by other propaganda, probably anti-Communist propaganda that was much more rampant in the McCarthy era than today (that is why people over 30 seem to hate "commie bastards" more than younger people) making you think that these people are evil and that is crap. Well, I don't think it's crap. I think it's pretty reasonable, considering what Bush wants for the world. Anyways, brainwashing propaganda is a pretty harsh label, especially for simple signs like that with small amounts of text. Propaganda (written) usually consists of four parts: the hook, or the absurd statement/question/idea that draws you in, the explanation, the example, and the relation (the part that makes you relate to it more, and to feel more comfortable with it). These signs only contain one part-- the hook. And occasionally, they will contain an example, but they are never complete. There is also milder propaganda, to strengthen ideas, values, or beliefs you already have, or to make you agree completely with something you could already relate to. Often, this is just one or two lines, and only needs to consist of the hook and the relation. Both of these can be seen in visual displays as well, but usually part of a third kind, a more subtle kind in which you often don't realise somebody is trying to convince you of something or say something to you, such as a picture of happy workers busying themselves with grueling hard work. But those signs are none of these. And what I would expect is that Communist groups are not there to promote their Communist ideals, but are rather united under the common cause of anti-war. The even bigger problem is that some impressionable kids eat it up(neo-Communists?). Uhh... so? Kids also eat up über-patriotism shit, especially in rural areas and military families. We end up with more anti-americans across the seas than we need, all because of Communist manipulations. What the hell? Now you're sounding like those damn Commie bastards are out to get us. No, not at all. Anti-americans are usually not that way because of "communist manipulation", but because of mistakes we've really made as a country that often have hurt them or people they can relate to. They have an agenda of destroying capitalism. WTF, now you're really surprising me. Only the most radical Communist groups have an agenda of "destroying" capitalism, as you put it. Most moderate groups want to "phase it out" by educating people about different economic systems and letting people realise how much of selfish pigs they really are. Not saying we should stop them, just inform people. Uhh... No. Inform people about what? That those damned Commie bastards are everywhere, especially on the Smurfs and in fortune cookies? Communists are about as fascist as any true-blue fascist, from what I can tell, with their totalitarian governments and state control No, that isn't what communists are. Communism is an economic policy, and Fascism is a method of political organisation. Communism and Fascism are linked by anti-Communist propaganda. Of course there were some "communist" ideologies which were Fascist, but it is 100% possible to have a totally Democratic state that is Communist as well. Usually, in history communist countries have been taken over almost immediately by dictators who basically take away the Communism fairly quickly and make it so that everything is a big money funnel to them... Everything is linked. Usually, when the Republicans lose an election, do they go out of their way to make hell for the Democrats? I don't know, haven't seen enough elections. What my point was is that these people are protesting against the war for the wrong reasons, and it could come back to hurt us. For the wrong reasons? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Yes, those commie bastards are really evil! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Completely true, and I guess I used the wrong term. I guess the other things I would be referring to are all the stupid gossip that spreads among these Communists and what they spread to anyone who attends these protests. When enough people say something such as: "Bush is out to take over the world and kill innocent Muslims and Iraquis, and he really just wants to take away all our freedoms. He doesn't want to catch terrorists at all, that's an excuse! He's really an evil tyrant! The next Hitler!" Strange... but I can actually imagine people believing this. You can't? You begin to be affected by it. That is the sort of thing I'm really talking about. Did you hear about that book that somehow claimed that the US caused 9/11, and all that stupid shit. Did you believe it? Would that be propoganda? That's the sort of thing that gets spread around. They were also passing out books and their flyers at the protests across the world, I hear. "You surprise me. Only the most radical Communists want to "destroy capitalism." Phase out, destroy, undermine, depress, overthrow, ect, ect Communism and capitalism are opposites, right? I didn't mean literally destroy, just that they would like to see it gone. Surprised that that would surprise you. They organized a lot of them, not just participated. *shrugs* Rather see it a little more advertised as such. I guess that depends on what kind of Communist they are. A Stalinist or a Marxist. Ever heard of 1984? Noticed it gets a lot of respect, but the future it portrayed began with simple little communism, and ended with complete fascism. Run as a communist, promising to level the playing field and to rob the rich and give to the poor, then, in the chaos that ensues, take control. Mostly I just saw it as interesting that the weakening Communist parties were using these protests for their politics. Not that it will really do too much for them.
Communism/socialism/anarchism/eminem/whatever made no measurable gains in the marches. World sanity did. Busheviks just know they expose themselves by being alarmists toward expressions for peace and the rule of law. I talked with many conservatives at protests in DC and NY, and I know they were not under some freaky commie spell. Nor was I.
hypewaders, absolutely. I saw a very large contingent in NY with a huge banner saying "Republicans for Peace" The communist organizers of these events genuinely oppose the war just like the rest of us, who cares if they want to sell their stupid papers to people during the march? People(especially those at protests) are smart enough to think for themselves. They're not going to be swayed by "communist propaganda" unless it makes sense to them.
Tens of people supported Bush worldwide last weekend Quote, "Over the weekend, throngs in numbers approaching almost 80 people worldwide took to the streets to provide a poignant counterpoint to the fringe-position presented by over 6,000,000 anti-war protesters..." Only 80 people could run by Capitalist? Those 6 million people wouldn't join protest because it's for communism but for anti-war opinion.
