As people can't choose their birthplaces or families, Patriotism is a very simple idea. if I was born in a town 15 km west of my hometown, I'd have the nationality of a country which is regarded as enemy here. Also, it's stupid to be ashamed or too proud of history of your country. Before accusing any country for things in the past, one should take humanistic conscience and the degree of intelligence into consideration. nevertheless, If your country has made a huge progress or improved somehow during your life period, it's something to be proud of as you have contributed to it directly.

so,here is my first post

I think Patriotism is a ridiculous concept. You can't choose which country you're born into. Maybe if you deliberately swap nationality ... :p

I think Patriotism is a ridiculous concept.

So, is being proud of your heritage or your family ridiculous concepts also?

Being proud of someone you love is different. If you find out (hypothetically speaking :p) that your long lost dad is actually some high ranking politician, should you then feel pride that he's got that far in life (or shame that he'd do it without acknowledging you)? Whereas if a parent who you love and get along with ...wins a nobel prize (still speaking hpothetically :p) then yeah, you should be proud. If you get what I'm saying... :confused:

If you get what I'm saying...

Uhhh no. But what Im saying is... (and I know Ive posted this before) - you are born unto your family without your concent and your still proud right? You would still die trying to protect them right? So its kind of the same thing with patriotism. You are born unto a country without your concent, but your still proud of your country right? I think most anti-patriots are people that associate patriotism with arrogrance. Some people are extreme, but most are just proud of their country. There is nothing ridiculous about this concept.

Take care:)

you are born unto your family without your concent and your still proud right? You would still die trying to protect them right? So its kind of the same thing with patriotism.

Yeah, but thing is, you're proud of your family cos you love them, not cos they're your family (but cos they're your family, you spend a lot of time with them, hence get to know and love them). I would die trying to protect someone I love, but if my brother was out to kill me and we hated each other's guts, then ... I wouldn't feel pride for him. Same with the country - if I love my country cos it's a good country :rolleyes: :p I agree with the laws, principles, society etc, then ... when we win the World Cup, I'll be proud. ;) ('Cept I won't, cos I hate the whole British football hooligan situation - same as the example of not liking/loving a member of your family). Similarly, I'd fight to save my country if it was gonna be invaded or whatever, I wouldn't fight to save my country because it was my country.

Though it gets complicated when you get into how you can love someone but not even like them ...

Point taken. But I like my country as well as love it. I can see if I hated my but felt obligated to defend it, that would be a different story....

I can see your point too. And there's an identical thread here (http://www.sciforums.com/t7358/s/thread.html) which ... you...started... :bugeye: :confused: Shouldn't a moderator merge them or something?

Theres also one in World Affairs forum also. I just love talking about Patriotism:D

Uhhh no. But what Im saying is... (and I know Ive posted this before) - you are born unto your family without your concent and your still proud right? You would still die trying to protect them right? So its kind of the same thing with patriotism. You are born unto a country without your concent, but your still proud of your country right? I think most anti-patriots are people that associate patriotism with arrogrance. Some people are extreme, but most are just proud of their country. There is nothing ridiculous about this concept.

Why is it kind of the same thing? We are talking about people that you are relatives, closest people in this world, people who brought you up. And a mass of land, with a bunch of people resident on it, most of them you don't know.

To me, patriotism seems just government brainwashing...

And, why would you die for your family? (Ok, Ok, I am selfish :( )

Originally posted by Firefly
I can see your point too. And there's an identical thread here (http://www.sciforums.com/t7358/s/thread.html) which ... you...started... :bugeye: :confused: Shouldn't a moderator merge them or something?
Maybe the moderator should make it sticky? :)

I'm going to actually go into this in a thread I will make hopefully in the next day....
But I have noticed something rather confusing in the U.S. that I honestly have not see in any of my travels (and if anyone knows of another place this exists, do bring it up). Americans have state pride.

What the fuck?

All these Yanks on the site have justified having pride for their country by saying it's (relatively) free and just. But how the fuck do you guys have state pride? All over L.A. there was waving Calfironia flags to go with the US flag. Actually, come to think of it the only place I never noticed this in the U.S. was NY City.

You can see patriotism at all levels: country, state, city (home town), city region, street...
I am sure it can be linked to animals naturally claiming your teritory, and belonging to a pack for better survival.

Hey ! you're not a part of this tribe - GET OUT OF HERE.
and leave our women alone.

Patriotism is a religion too.
Believing one's country to be superior to others and deserving of your loyalty (and your taxes!) just because you or your ancestors were born in it ..... is illogical. And to think that had you been born a few kilometres south or east .... you would have pledged loyalty to an entirely different country and thought it to be the best, makes the absence of logic even more stark !

Stretching that idea far enough backwards ... we all should feel intensely patriotic of Africa :)

- Sivakami.