i want everybody here to construct orgone devices there very simple to make wont take long or cost hardly anything, everyone here is capable of constructing one it dosent take much, Orgone energy (Qi) has been overlooked far too much and it is time for people to make individual studies about this, and experiments need to be done with finished conclusions.

reichs work was locked up in a vault for 50 years he didnt want the last generation dealing with it with judicial murder, so he planed to release it around 2007 (i think) so that our generation will be able to try to understand its concepts with more open mindedness.




i have so much more to post about this topic scientific theories on everything will have to be reasessed and start over incorperating the existance of this sub energy.



peace

Mr. Chi, would you do me a favor and tell me a source for the "locked up in a vault" story? I've never heard it. About orgone I am one of the more knowledgeable laymen around. I do not think that there are any secrets out there. Usually all of the relevant materials are available by interlibrary loan and they can be purchased through their website. (http://www.orgonomy.org/)

I have been tracking this subject and experimenting with it for more than 25 years.

http://www.wilhelmreichmuseum.org/04_10_update.html#archives



THE WILHELM REICH ARCHIVES
“The Archives of the Orgone Institute” is the official name of what we commonly refer to as “The Wilhelm Reich Archives.” And in late 2007 or early 2008, these Archives will become accessible to scholars and researchers. Therefore we will periodically provide information about the Archives in these monthly Updates and on our Web site.


i will find alot more links if you want that was just the first one that came up for me.




peace




anyway metakron i might be wrong but its what ive read on alot of well based sites. anyway you have experience in it, you could say ive studied orgone energy for over 17 years if you believe Qi is orgone wich i do, would you post your experimental reults on this forum please if you undergo any i would love to hear what devise you used and the outcome.


peace

OK, now that you have explained what was locked up for all these years, I can get a firmer grip on the idea. I know that his books have been continuously available. I hope that the trust isn't forced to decide that the 2007 environment is too hostile. I also hope that in the interest of preserving these documents, they scan each one and distribute the scans far and wide. I am guessing that we are looking at something like half a million pages of material there. What I wish some companies would do is offer a hard drive with a dataset like that on it. It's going to take a hundred CDs or at least ten DVDs to get it all.

My experiments have all been enthusiastic amateur experiments with not much attention paid to scientific rigor. I don't document everything that I do with a computer. I didn't document what I did with orgone. I just used it. Sometimes it seems really good for dispelling the particular infection that is being passed around the workplace. I am not at all sure why I let my investigations lapse.

I have a favorite recipe for SAPA (SAnd PAcket) bions. Make or buy chicken broth. Chill it so that the fat congeals, then filter it through whatever you have handy. Sprinkle some salt substitute, which is mostly potassium chloride, into the mix. Get some fine sand. Heat it to red heat in a crucible or over a propane torch. Grind the sand in a glass crucible. Throw that in. It will work, in my experience, to set it in a mason jar with cloth under the ring. It's more standard to put it in a Florence flask and put cotton in the neck of the flask. Then you can boil it over a flame or in a pressure cooker. I used to take an aluminum pie pan, turn it upside down, cut holes in it, and make a depression in the center for a flask to sit in. Mason jars also work. The flasks are easier to tip over but the Mason jars don't look so much like a drug factory, although these days just about anything looks like a meth lab. Pressure cook it for a half hour, and know how to use the pressure cooker before applying heat to it. You can't just crank the flame on high. If you do, you have to be there constantly to watch for it to start to boil, then back the flame off, then fiddle with it until the weight over the hole in the lid rocks. Keep it near the absolute minimum heat or internal pressure will build until you either loose the safety plug or the pot explodes. Or you can just set the flask or jar in an open pan of boiling water. In my experience this works.

The precision with which you do this depends on exactly how scientific you want to be about it. I only know that the radiation is present by its feel and its effects. I am a sensitive. I can feel it sort of like leakage current when the chassis of a device is hot but I am not grounded. Like I said, to me it's a tool. I am interested in refining the use of that tool.

do you have any knowlegde about Qi energy and have you compared the 2 and looked into the ancient teachings?


i have blueprints of how to build 3 types of orgone devises have you made a HHG or accumilator, or a cloudbuster?. i would like to her about results using cloudbusters and generators.


peace

I've made some variations on the accumulator. It's easy to make them out of common materials. I think that aluminum works, personally, for the metal. Some writers haven't been so sure, but when I tried it it seemed to energize me. Even doing something as simple as putting steel wool inside a blanket folded in half seems to work. I would prefer to find some way to fireproof that rig, or maybe use something like copper that doesn't burn as easily.

About the Qi or Chi energy, I think it's pretty much the same thing. Orgone energy is only part of the system.

What is an HHG?

Some writers haven't been so sure, but when I tried it it seemed to energize me.

Now if we could get the resources together to do a double blind clinical trial.... :)

Screw the FDA like they screw us.

The orgone accumulator is pretty dangerous. It simply draws in the surrounding orgone(whether OR or DOR) to an area.

I read about an HHG, it supposedly attracts DOR then through certain crystals converts it into OR, and radiates OR. Kind of like an air cleaner (for orgone).

This guy named Karl Welz was the first to make an Orgone Generator (as opposed to an accumulator). He says that the Orgone Generator automatically converts DOR into OR. On one of his sites, it says that the HHG is simply an accumulator with crystals.

I'm not sure who to trust on this subject.

I've had many experiences. I put a magnet on a orgone generator image, and the next day the magnet seem to radiate this static electromagnetic like force, then I realized this was because metallic objects attract and radiate Qi (according to Reich). When I put the orgone generating grid in my bedroom, the next day after sleeping for just 3 hours, when I woke up I had lots of energy, I didn't feel lethargic at all. I also noticed that my bedroom was hotter than usual (even though it was cold outside).

What type of controlled experiments should we conduct? Should we study the effects of Qi on water, plants, insects, bacteria, cells, etc...? If the Qi uses gravity, light, and electromagnetic activity as mediums shouldn't there be a way to manipulate all of these? I read about Reich postulating a theory of negative gravity. Also, there must be a way to convert Qi into electricity or mechanical energy. Does anyone know how much Orgone is available in the universe? Is there an infinite supply? What effect does Qi have on magnetism?

It is better to keep orgone accumulators away from things like computers and fluorescent lights. I suspect that DOR comes in more than one flavor. I have a certain hypothesis that I believe is plausible. Some of it is like ashes or red-shifted photons. It is dim and life-draining. Some of it has shifted towards the blue or the violet. It is damaging because it is too energetic. Some of it seems to have the wrong order to it. Orgone consists of a certain set of low frequency and high frequency vibrations on some kind of organizing principle. It carries energy that can actually be seen, as if on a curved string. The string itself is energy vibrating at a certain frequency, and it tumbles through space quite slowly. There are known physical principles that can make a plausible explanation for its behavior. You can think of it as too hot, too cold, or as being carried in the wrong capsule.

I wouldn't be too sure that DOR couldn't be converted to OR. Crystals could
draw off the excess energy if it is overexcited. That kind of DOR passing through quartz or salt would donate energy to the electronic lattices, which would distribute it through the entire crystal or bunch of crystals. If the crystals are in water, and the water is grounded through a conductive material, and if the orgone manifests as electricity after it is processed by the crystals, then the excess energy can be safely carried away to the ground. Depleted orgone particles could on the other hand nest in the crystal lattices and accept energy from them. The energy would come from a source of visible light or near infra-red. It is much better to use natural sunlight. If using artificial lighting, I recommend that the lighting either be incandescent or white LEDS, and that its power be filtered DC. It needs to have a diffuse spectrum and avoid any strong single-frequency or monochromatic emissions. Thermal sources of light, like a lightbulb filament, are good. Fluorescents are too spikey. Candles are good, but be extremely careful with fire. I don't think there is any need for large single crystals.

I'm just tossing out hypotheses off the top of my head anyway. Please don't take my word as a strict definition of anything. Reich said avoid radioactivity, X-rays, high voltage, and fluorescent lights. Even without using orgone apparatus, doing this can make people feel better. I think that I would also avoid getting high levels of orgone next to depleted uranium.

Is there an infinite supply? I think that orgone is one more type of electromagnetic energy, composed of a strand of electromagnetic force with a packet of EM force at one end. It has a head and a tail. I think that it naturally develops from the ambient energy anywhere the conditions are right.

building the accumilator is considered dangerous, i dont recommend we do tests on accumilators i think we should use HHG's and Cloudbusters read the links i gave in free thought thread section, it tells you ways to construct safe versions, and also tells you of the warnings and guidelines about dead orgone (evil Qi basicaly) and how to drain it off correctly into running water streams etc, have a good read up on cloudbusters and HHG's and people who have actually studied them first hand with results,


google it,


peace

http://www.littlemountainsmudge.com/howtomakehhgs.htm



here if not for scientific studies make one for your own health and reasons around the home or work, no company profits from these alternate methods, you make it yourself and just give money t local hardware stores etc, its worth 30 mins of everyones time i personally think.



peace

http://www.metatech.org/cloudbuster_&_orgone_generator.html


scroll down and read it all then make one.



peace

I have a question...we know that Orgone isn't physically within objects (it's pre-atomic)...so does that mean that matter emits orgone, that matter comes from orgone, or that the orgone energy surrounds the atomic structure of matter?

Mr. Chi, would you do me a favor and tell me a source for the "locked up in a vault" story? I've never heard it. About orgone I am one of the more knowledgeable laymen around. I do not think that there are any secrets out there. Usually all of the relevant materials are available by interlibrary loan and they can be purchased through their website. (http://www.orgonomy.org/)

I have been tracking this subject and experimenting with it for more than 25 years.

Robert Pavlitta's psychotronic generators use orgone or Chi. refer to book "psychic discoveries behind the iron curtain".
Do you know of any websites about the psychotronic generators.
Very Important. I strongly suspect that ufos have these generators in them and are using orgone or chi for propulsion.
Show me how to build psychotronic generators.

The orgone accumulator is pretty dangerous. It simply draws in the surrounding orgone(whether OR or DOR) to an area.

I read about an HHG, it supposedly attracts DOR then through certain crystals converts it into OR, and radiates OR. Kind of like an air cleaner (for orgone).

This guy named Karl Welz was the first to make an Orgone Generator (as opposed to an accumulator). He says that the Orgone Generator automatically converts DOR into OR. On one of his sites, it says that the HHG is simply an accumulator with crystals.

I'm not sure who to trust on this subject.

I've had many experiences. I put a magnet on a orgone generator image, and the next day the magnet seem to radiate this static electromagnetic like force, then I realized this was because metallic objects attract and radiate Qi (according to Reich). When I put the orgone generating grid in my bedroom, the next day after sleeping for just 3 hours, when I woke up I had lots of energy, I didn't feel lethargic at all. I also noticed that my bedroom was hotter than usual (even though it was cold outside).

What type of controlled experiments should we conduct? Should we study the effects of Qi on water, plants, insects, bacteria, cells, etc...? If the Qi uses gravity, light, and electromagnetic activity as mediums shouldn't there be a way to manipulate all of these? I read about Reich postulating a theory of negative gravity. Also, there must be a way to convert Qi into electricity or mechanical energy. Does anyone know how much Orgone is available in the universe? Is there an infinite supply? What effect does Qi have on magnetism?

Read PSYCHIC DISCOVERIES BEHIND THE IRON CURTAIN.
Robert Pavlitta's psychotronic generators convert chi into mechanical energy and and electrostatic type energy also. They can also help plants grow faster or kill flies.

Does anyone know of a website telling how to build the psychotronic generators?
Strongly suspect that ufos have these devices, and use chi for propulsion.

I have a question...we know that Orgone isn't physically within objects (it's pre-atomic)...so does that mean that matter emits orgone, that matter comes from orgone, or that the orgone energy surrounds the atomic structure of matter?

Orgone seems to be the same energy called psychotronic energy by the Czechs and bioplasmic energy by the russians.
See Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain [very famous book, you can read about it on the web and buy it on the web.]
The orgone or Chi, seems to be a mental energy existing in a mental dimension. It is the energy that connects the non physical mind with the physical body and enables you to move your body at will.
Kirlian photography [Putting body parts in varying electric fields and filming it] shows bright flares of chi energy at all of the accupuncture points of the Chinese. The aura energy, can be filmed to change with changes in thoughts and feelings. That is why Chi should be considered a mental energy.
Chi acts like another force that is holding the other energies of the aura together and directing them according to the mental will of people.
It seems to be a mental energy of some sort, capable of controlling the other energies.
Psychic healers concentrate on healing and the photographs show chi focusing into a bright beam coming out of the healers hands, when it is put in the kirlian photography electric fields.

Orgone seems to be the same energy called psychotronic energy by the Czechs and bioplasmic energy by the russians.
See Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain [very famous book, you can read about it on the web and buy it on the web.]
The orgone or Chi, seems to be a mental energy existing in a mental dimension. It is the energy that connects the non physical mind with the physical body and enables you to move your body at will.
Kirlian photography [Putting body parts in varying electric fields and filming it] shows bright flares of chi energy at all of the accupuncture points of the Chinese. The aura energy, can be filmed to change with changes in thoughts and feelings. That is why Chi should be considered a mental energy.
Chi acts like another force that is holding the other energies of the aura together and directing them according to the mental will of people.
It seems to be a mental energy of some sort, capable of controlling the other energies.
Psychic healers concentrate on healing and the photographs show chi focusing into a bright beam coming out of the healers hands, when it is put in the kirlian photography electric fields.

Unbelievable. Since Kirlian photography became a fad in the 1970s, it's been debunked more times that you can count.

For a simple experiment, try this. Have someone in a room stand and make a Krilian photograph of him. Then have him shuffle his feet on the carpet (if he happens to be wearing tennis shoes or others with rubber soles, so much the better).

Now take another picture.Amazing! That little bit of effort generated a tremendous aura! Isn't it interesting how little it takes to put life in the "life-force" field. :D

I'm constantly amazed and saddened at how often supposedly intelligent people will fall for all this simple trickery.

Science does not progress because of nay sayers. It progresses in spite of them.

"It is the responsibility of scientists never to suppress knowledge, no matter how awkward that knowledge is, no matter how much it may bother those in power. We are not smart enough to decide which pieces of knowledge are permissible and which are not."
--Carl Sagan, in a 1991 commencement address at UCLA

"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance!"
--Albert Einstein

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it."
--Albert Einstein

"There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such trifling investments of fact."
--Mark Twain

"Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but usually manages to pick himself up, walk over or around it, and carry on."
--Winston Churchill

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
--Herbert Spencer

"If you are going to tell people the truth, you had better make them laugh or they will kill you."
--Oscar Wilde

Truth will first be ridiculed, then violently opposed, and finally accepted as self-evident; A. Schopenhauer 1788-1860

The research into Kirlian photography is valid, the research into ufos is valid, the research into orgone or chi is valid.

People that embrace unreasonable skepticism have an attitude that is invalid.

Orgone seems to be the same energy called psychotronic energy by the Czechs and bioplasmic energy by the russians.
See Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain [very famous book, you can read about it on the web and buy it on the web.]
The orgone or Chi, seems to be a mental energy existing in a mental dimension. It is the energy that connects the non physical mind with the physical body and enables you to move your body at will.
Kirlian photography [Putting body parts in varying electric fields and filming it] shows bright flares of chi energy at all of the accupuncture points of the Chinese. The aura energy, can be filmed to change with changes in thoughts and feelings. That is why Chi should be considered a mental energy.
Chi acts like another force that is holding the other energies of the aura together and directing them according to the mental will of people.
It seems to be a mental energy of some sort, capable of controlling the other energies.
Psychic healers concentrate on healing and the photographs show chi focusing into a bright beam coming out of the healers hands, when it is put in the kirlian photography electric fields.
This seems plausible...but hasn't Kirlian photography been debunked a lot, things like scissors and non-organic, non-living objects in photographs give off the same type of aura as living things.

Since Yi (Intention) directs the Qi this seems plausible. A mental dimension? You mean like one of the dimensions in the superstring theory? Also, why does Qi have a strong connection to waves and radiation? For instance, Reich observed Qi is the medium for electromagnetism, light, and gravity, all which are wave-related?

Also, if Qi is mental energy, then why do things like orgone accumulators, certain geometic images, and orgone generators produce this mental energy? Wouldn't it only be able to be produced by Yi (intention) if it's mental energy?Unless you are saying that all matter has Yi behind it, like all matter has a consciousness of it's own, then it doesn't make much sense.

The research into Kirlian photography is valid, the research into ufos is valid, the research into orgone or chi is valid.

People that embrace unreasonable skepticism have an attitude that is invalid.

All of your quotations are nice, however they were never meant to be applied to something that's an outright fraud. If those people could see the context you used their statements in, they'd be very ashamed of you.

Instead of blindly defending Kirlian photography, I suggest YOU do some serious research into it. Then you'll understand the silliness of believing in it.

The example I gave you shows just how easy it is to create that "wonderful" energy field. It's nothing more than high-voltage electrostatics. High school kids used to do it all the time in class with a rubber rod and a silk scarf. Only difference is they didn't try to photograph it. No magic "life-force", simple static electricity.

light qhat is your standpoint on orgone energy?
do you believe it exists?
howcomes you see forms of energy as mystical in some senses?




peace.

light qhat is your standpoint on orgone energy?
do you believe it exists?
howcomes you see forms of energy as mystical in some senses?

peace.

Hello, Chi,

I maintain an open mind at all times because new things ARE discovered now and then.

However, I've been heavily involved in real science almost my entire adult life, and that's over 40 years. Energy is the ability do do work and it's fairly well understood. There have been all sorts of "energy" proclaimed over many years that supposedly reside outside of science. They are almost always "discovered" by someone who is not a scientist or one that's clearly working outside his field of experience. For example, a medical doctor generally knows very little about science outside of the medical profession.

I've already demonstrated, in my little experiment, how easy it it to reproduce the so-called energy or "life-force" that Kirlian photography is supposed to reveal. Yes, there's energy there all right - common, ordinary electrostatic energy.

Bear with me just a minute because I would like to seriously try to explain something so that everyone can understand it.

Just who are these people that get caught up in Kirlian photography, orgone energy, therapeutic magnets, copper bracelets, and all the rest of the non-scientific fads? Are they dupes, dopes, or dummies?Absolutely not! They are normal, average, everyday people.

And here's the problem. All the regular people in the world have studied just enough science in school and on their own to know many of the technical terms and some amount of how many things actually work. They are not scientists. They have to spend most of their time working on their jobs, raising their kids, paying the bills, trying to buy a car and maybe a house - all of the things that good, average people do every day.

True scientists, on the other hand, spend almost every day working with science - that's their jobs! That's what THEY do for a living. They don't spend every day assembling cars, making toys, working at the grocery store or laundry - all the kinds of jobs that regular people do - they do science every day.

So now a question: who would you suspect really knows more about energy - the check-out clerk at the department store, or someone who has spent decades studying and working with science and scientific applications?

Yet whenever something like this comes up and the scientists address it, do the inexperienced people listen to who should know? Do the people who believe in orgone energy know how - and have they - conducted careful experiments complete with proper controls and rigorously recorded data? I seriously doubt it! I would think that most of them just plop something together (if they even try doing anything at all ) and it either works or doesn't. The vast majority of them don't try anything. They just take everyone else's word for it, or the word of someone who's written a book to sell to make money.

So, one last question: just who, between these people and the scientists, do you suspect is trying to fool whom?

maybe nobody is trying to fool nobody, all i know is orgone energy is Qi (the energy ive been learning to control and master for over 17 years) and im doing experiments on orgone as we speak, i am not trusting anybody but my own 2 eyes, not any fanatics not any scientists, if i truely believe in something i must experience it myself, i am not going to purely debate and talk, im conducting tests and experiments, trying to get results why dont you do some tests on orgone yourself, and this energy dosent go against science atall, infact it actually explains a few things, the 2 opposite energies, think about it the ying and yang theory, it does explain alot of things, im not asking you to think of this in a different frame of mine, im asking you to respect this is actually very logical, and try to explain and conduct tests as a scientist would with other energy forms you cant see, the thought of something "mystical/magical" actually scares respectable scientists off i know this very well, but just because ancient people knew of these energies long ago without tech, and its linked with martial arts, and myths and old taoist folk legend/metaphores/philosophies, dosent make it mysticle and magical, it is at the end of the day just energy forms, realisticly it would be foolish to think there are no other energy forms, or energy forms simular to Qi/orgone, because if science was already familiar with all of the goings on of energy and the universe, we would not be trying to learn more about the universe, because we would know everything.

just try the experiments and judge it after you have looked over the results, a true scientist wouldent dismiss somethign this serious without actually going through vigorous testing.


peace,

....ancient people knew of these energies long ago without tech.....Right on Empty... You tell 'em!

It is a real shame that the last of the old masters of this energy was so courageous. Too bad, he fell off the edge of the Earth. :eek:

maybe nobody is trying to fool nobody, all i know is orgone energy is Qi (the energy ive been learning to control and master for over 17 years) and im doing experiments on orgone as we speak, i am not trusting anybody but my own 2 eyes, not any fanatics not any scientists, if i truely believe in something i must experience it myself, i am not going to purely debate and talk, im conducting tests and experiments, trying to get results why dont you do some tests on orgone yourself, and this energy dosent go against science atall, infact it actually explains a few things, the 2 opposite energies, think about it the ying and yang theory, it does explain alot of things, im not asking you to think of this in a different frame of mine, im asking you to respect this is actually very logical, and try to explain and conduct tests as a scientist would with other energy forms you cant see, the thought of something "mystical/magical" actually scares respectable scientists off i know this very well, but just because ancient people knew of these energies long ago without tech, and its linked with martial arts, and myths and old taoist folk legend/metaphores/philosophies, dosent make it mysticle and magical, it is at the end of the day just energy forms, realisticly it would be foolish to think there are no other energy forms, or energy forms simular to Qi/orgone, because if science was already familiar with all of the goings on of energy and the universe, we would not be trying to learn more about the universe, because we would know everything.

just try the experiments and judge it after you have looked over the results, a true scientist wouldent dismiss somethign this serious without actually going through vigorous testing.


peace,

The "two opposite energies", eh? Chi, that's just more mystical double-talk. It's true that there are opposing forces but no opposite energy. There is only energy - pure and simple - although it can take different forms.

Tell you what. I'm not about to waste any of my time and effort on something so silly. But since you are so interested, go right ahead. YOU do the experiments, keep impeccable records , and prove it to all of us, OK? I will gladly post a public apology admitting I was wrong and that you were right.

Not only that, with your new-found energy source, you will become fabulously wealthy!!! (And here's a major hint for you to think about while you're doing it. Just how many people have become millionaires already by using orgone energy, eh? With all those interested people there should be a lot of them - somewhere!)

Yet whenever something like this comes up and the scientists address it, do the inexperienced people listen to who should know? Do the people who believe in orgone energy know how - and have they - conducted careful experiments complete with proper controls and rigorously recorded data? I seriously doubt it! I would think that most of them just plop something together (if they even try doing anything at all ) and it either works or doesn't. The vast majority of them don't try anything. They just take everyone else's word for it, or the word of someone who's written a book to sell to make money.

So, one last question: just who, between these people and the scientists, do you suspect is trying to fool whom?
Actually Wilhelm Reich was an actual scientist. In his books he writes about his controlled experiments (that you can try too), much of which cannot be explained by conventional science. For instance, why do plants grow faster in orgone accumulators (which by conventional science would NEVER cause a plant to grow faster). When Wilhelm Reich placed 1mg of radium inside an orgone accumulator, the whole place started glowing. Remember, an orgone accumulator is simply wood, metal, and glass. Orgone energy was considered purely scientific until the FDA started harrassing Reich and his whole organization.

I agree with you on Kirlian photography. I don't see how it can actually work as described.Orgone uses electromagnetism, gravity, and light as mediums but electrostatic activity is not Qi itself. I've seen things on TV where they debunked Kirlian photography, because inorganic, non-living things showed the same, or even greater auras than living things, which makes no sense.

This thread is suppose to be purely scientific. We should try to conduct actual, controlled experiments regarding Qi (Orgone). For instance, I've read that large amounts of Qi can alter the molecular structure of water, if this is true, we should be able to observe this (though I have no resources to do so).

So the question is what experiment can we conduct?

This seems plausible...but hasn't Kirlian photography been debunked a lot, things like scissors and non-organic, non-living objects in photographs give off the same type of aura as living things.

Since Yi (Intention) directs the Qi this seems plausible. A mental dimension? You mean like one of the dimensions in the superstring theory? Also, why does Qi have a strong connection to waves and radiation? For instance, Reich observed Qi is the medium for electromagnetism, light, and gravity, all which are wave-related?

Also, if Qi is mental energy, then why do things like orgone accumulators, certain geometic images, and orgone generators produce this mental energy? Wouldn't it only be able to be produced by Yi (intention) if it's mental energy?Unless you are saying that all matter has Yi behind it, like all matter has a consciousness of it's own, then it doesn't make much sense.

The type of glow that inanimate objects give off is called carona discharge. It behaves like a random plasma. Kirlian photography on living organisms causes an aura glow that is a very strange type of carona discharge. The aura around organisms behaves like an organism itself with specified passage ways in it, and it responds to the human will. It is very well ordered and not random. (It also flares at the accupuncure points which depend on chi to work.) The electric fields are illuminating a chi energy that is already there, around organisms, and this chi is holding the other energies in the aura in order and giving it structure and directing it according to the mental will of the human. That is very different from what you get around inanimate objects which is only random plasma.
The aura energy is a vibratory energy. The researchers determined that. Chi itself seems to be vibratory and different frequencies produce different color patterns in the aura; colors respond to mental and emotional states in the kirlian photos. Researchers think chi can mix with and generate the other energies. [Has a 1/r diminishing with distance; other energies diminish with 1/r2 one over r squared.] They shielded against all other energies and the chi effect still got through. It is a different energy.
Remote viewing experiments where people can see accurately in their minds distant places and objects, seem to show that the mental dimension extends throughout space, it is not just in the mind. Your eyes see in the physical dimension, the mind can see in the mental. Chi is in the environment. The mental dimension is in the enviroment to. [Your non physical mind is occupying space in your head. The mental dimension occupies the same space as the physical world.
Strongly suspect ufos use chi for propulsion. Surrounded with it they can go partly or totally in another dimension and defy the laws of physics, which they are observed to do .

The type of glow that inanimate objects give off is called carona discharge. It behaves like a random plasma. Kirlian photography on living organisms causes an aura glow that is a very strange type of carona discharge. The aura around organisms behaves like an organism itself with specified passage ways in it, and it responds to the human will. It is very well ordered and not random. (It also flares at the accupuncure points which depend on chi to work.) The electric fields are illuminating a chi energy that is already there, around organisms, and this chi is holding the other energies in the aura in order and giving it structure and directing it according to the mental will of the human. That is very different from what you get around inanimate objects which is only random plasma.
The aura energy is a vibratory energy. The researchers determined that. Chi itself seems to be vibratory and different frequencies produce different color patterns in the aura; colors respond to mental and emotional states in the kirlian photos. Researchers thing chi can mix with and generate the other energies. [Has a 1/r diminishing with distance; other energies diminish with 1/r2 one over r squared.] They shielded against all other energies and the chi effect still got through. It is a different energy.
Remote viewing experiments where people can see accurately in their minds distant places and objects, seem to show that the mental dimension extends throughout space, it is not just in the mind. Your eyes see in the physical dimension, the mind can see in the mental. Chi is in the environment. The mental dimension is in the enviroment to. [Your non physical mind is occupying space in your head. The mental dimension occupies the same space as the physical world.
Strongly suspect ufos use chi for propulsion. Surrounded with it they can go partly or totally in another dimension and defy the laws of physics, which they are observed to do .

I will not comment on Kirlian photography as I have not done enough research on it. As for Qi, I suspect that Qi is simply the energy of Yi (intention). I also suspect that things like light, gravity, and Qi all exist on a different dimension and act differently on those dimensions. Even Mike Kaku suspects that light is a vibration from a higher dimension. I hope that we may gain an exact understanding of how Qi works on the physical dimension. If the superstring theory is correct, then there are many things going on which we cannot percieve, so things that are seemingly random may very well be completely ordered.

Wilhelm Reich also suspected that Orgone was used by UFOs as propulsion. He also came up with a theory of negative gravity and an Orgone motor.

light what do you mean,


"the "two opposite energies", eh? Chi, that's just more mystical double-talk. It's true that there are opposing forces but no opposite energy."

how is this mystical double talk? what is hard to comprehend here, its very simple, you have an energy that has posative effects on living things, and an energy that has a negative effect on living things, and these energies both need each other to be substained, and i cant believe you just said this, "there are no opposing energies" well mr light im sorry but i have a hard time believing that you personally know everything there is to know about energy, and the forms it resides in, are you telling me that as a scientist the concept of Qi energy is too "out there" ? but you believe in gravity, anti matter, light speed, black holes, etc.



look here, reich was a respectable scientist, he was not a crackpot and his IQ was higher than einsteins, not that IQ has everything to do with bieng a scientist, but people are usually more logical the higher the IQ, he was a very logical man, not a fanatic atall, he simple had theorys about Qi eneegy and he conducted experiments, i find it kinda funny that someone such as yourself light, is quick to dismiss this subject as quickly as you did, withut even conducting experiments, now what scientist in his right mind, would outrightly dismiss an energy form that has good logic and testing availible, wouldent a real scientist only dismiss something like this, after proving it dosent exist, you say its not proven to exist, but i havent seen you "waste your time" and conduct experiments to prove it dosent exist, and i suppose when my test results are prepared and i actually document the findings of orgone, you will dismiss those aswell and say im lying or giving fraudulant test results, so i cant win either way, thats why i wanted people to conduct there own experiments, it only takes about 30 mins to make one of these orgone devices, you wil all trust your own 2 eyes, but probably wont trust me and my results, its kinda infuriating that real scientists will dismiss soemthing so important just on the fact that its linked with ancient teachings of Qi energy, an open mind learns more and prospers more than a closed one,

its right to judge and question things, but its unfair to judge and make your mind up on something, before you give it half a chance.


peace

light what do you mean,


"the "two opposite energies", eh? Chi, that's just more mystical double-talk. It's true that there are opposing forces but no opposite energy."

how is this mystical double talk? what is hard to comprehend here, its very simple, you have an energy that has posative effects on living things, and an energy that has a negative effect on living things, and these energies both need each other to be sub stained, and i cant believe you just said this, "there are no opposing energies" well Mr light I'm sorry but i have a hard time believing that you personally know everything there is to know about energy, and the forms it resides in, are you telling me that as a scientist the concept of Qi energy is too "out there" ? but you believe in gravity, anti matter, light speed, black holes, etc.



look here, reich was a respectable scientist, he was not a crackpot and his IQ was higher than einsteins, not that IQ has everything to do with bieng a scientist, but people are usually more logical the higher the IQ, he was a very logical man, not a fanatic atall, he simple had theorys about Qi eneegy and he conducted experiments, i find it kinda funny that someone such as yourself light, is quick to dismiss this subject as quickly as you did, withut even conducting experiments, now what scientist in his right mind, would outrightly dismiss an energy form that has good logic and testing availible, wouldent a real scientist only dismiss something like this, after proving it dosent exist, you say its not proven to exist, but i havent seen you "waste your time" and conduct experiments to prove it dosent exist, and i suppose when my test results are prepared and i actually document the findings of orgone, you will dismiss those aswell and say im lying or giving fraudulant test results, so i cant win either way, thats why i wanted people to conduct there own experiments, it only takes about 30 mins to make one of these orgone devices, you wil all trust your own 2 eyes, but probably wont trust me and my results, its kinda infuriating that real scientists will dismiss soemthing so important just on the fact that its linked with ancient teachings of Qi energy, an open mind learns more and prospers more than a closed one,

its right to judge and question things, but its unfair to judge and make your mind up on something, before you give it half a chance.


peace

Yes, Chi, I believe in gravity, magnetism, and the rest you listed. They are observable, measurable, and have been proven to exist. You concept of "opposing energies" is incorrect. They are NOT measurable and have never been proven to exist - other than in the minds of the believers.

Such "energies" don't even have a valid reason for existing. They are figments of imagination and were dreamed up by ancient people who needed a way to explain things in a fashion that they thought they could understand. Those concepts were instituted at the same time and by many of the same people that came up with things like fortune-telling, Tarot cards, black cats, Friday the 13th and various gods that controlled the weather and affected human affairs. They knew less about science than the average 10-year old does today.

But back to your experiments. I'm not an unreasonable person at all and I will accept and believe the results of your tests if you do them in a scientific manner.

Do you know how to set up experiments that include carefully monitored controls as well as the test subjects? Do you understand the importance of statistical results? In other words, for something like testing the claims of the effects on growing plants you would need to do something like this. Not just a single plant or two but a few dozen with your "energy" applied and another few dozen without it. All the plants have to be in the same room so that they share all the same environmental conditions. They have to be watered equally - in carefully measured amounts - and all be in the same soil that was well mixed beforehand and with no additional nutrients added to any of them. They must all receive equal amounts of sunlight and measurements would have to be taken and recorded several times a day to insure that was so.

I've no idea what experiment(s) you plan on doing but they would all have to follow the same type of strict protocols as I just outlined. It's far from easy and requires a lot of time. And that's why I have no interest in doing so myself. It's not just a simple matter of throwing something together and looking at it every few days.

Do you fully understand what I'm saying?

im not going to lie to anybody here, no i dont really know that much about conducting scientific experimentations, but i was hoping you guys on here could give me a hand with that, when my devices are complete, coudbuster and HHG unit, then i will tell you guys its all ready and you can help me record my data in the proper manner, i would grately appreciate if people could help me with this.


and about you saying this is just something that ancient people needed to believe in to explain things, nah i dont agree with this atall, ancient people were more intune with the natural way, they could feel the energy more, and could i ask you one thing please? can you prove to me this energy dosent exist? just like you would prove there is no lock ness monster in scotland, by scanning the lake with sonar and proving it dosent liek they did awhile ago. hey so what do you think of all of the cloudbuster scientific data and weather graphs, how can you explain rain comming over an african desert 3 days after the cloudbuster was installed, when it hasnt rained in that particular desert for 30 years previously, with drought?



peace

im not going to lie to anybody here, no i dont really know that much about conducting scientific experimentations, but i was hoping you guys on here could give me a hand with that, when my devices are complete, coudbuster and HHG unit, then i will tell you guys its all ready and you can help me record my data in the proper manner, i would grately appreciate if people could help me with this.
Id be glad to volunteer to help you with that. Just tel l me when you're ready and we'll have a go at it. :)


and about you saying this is just something that ancient people needed to believe in to explain things, nah i dont agree with this atall, ancient people were more intune with the natural way, they could feel the energy more, and could i ask you one thing please? can you prove to me this energy dosent exist? just like you would prove there is no lock ness monster in scotland, by scanning the lake with sonar and proving it dosent liek they did awhile ago. hey so what do you think of all of the cloudbuster scientific data and weather graphs, how can you explain rain comming over an african desert 3 days after the cloudbuster was installed, when it hasnt rained in that particular desert for 30 years previously, with drought?



peace[/QUOTE]

Good grief, Chi, I was giving you more credit than that! I thought surely you knew that no one can disprove a negative. For example, can YOU prove there's no human base on the far side of the moon? Of course you can't!!

The same goes for Nessie. The Loch is BIG and you can't scan all of it it once. So it would be easy to say that it slipped around you.

Honest question for you: considering that the ancient people weren't dumb, they just didn't have all the knowledge that's been gained since then, how can you possibly think they knew more about anything at that time? That just makes NO sense at all.

it would make sense if you changed your mind state for a second, think about it, an energy form that comes from nature, can be harnest by nature is actually nature, tech blocks Qi and interfiers with its flow, imagine a world and homes and cities without tech, the energy can be felt more, you dont need any tech to harness Qi so we try to analise it with all this tech and ofcourse it dosent work, but if you examine it yourself through taiji you dont need to see anything , just feel it, if you did internal martial arts for along time you would understand, its not that martial artists are stupid, its just they are more open to this type of thing, and actually experience it first hand within there own bodies, do you remember before people believed in gravity, what would a person who believed in gravity seem like to everyone else who didnt believe in it, and talking of gravity, could you prove that it is actually the thing that science claims it to be, how can you prove to me that gravity is a push and not a pull or vise versa, and yes i can tell you if there are moon bases, its called action if you go tot he moon (wich humans can do) then go there and see if its true, just like with this im taking action to prove or dissprove it, but yes even if i find no actual evidence onr ecord of orgone i will still believe it exists purely because of my own experiences with Qigong taiji and bagua,


and much thanks for helping me out with this light, dont take any of my debating to heart, im really gratefull that you will help me,


thanks peace.

it would make sense if you changed your mind state for a second, think about it, an energy form that comes from nature, can be harnest by nature is actually nature, tech blocks Qi and interfiers with its flow, imagine a world and homes and cities without tech, the energy can be felt more, you dont need any tech to harness Qi so we try to analise it with all this tech and ofcourse it dosent work, but if you examine it yourself through taiji you dont need to see anything , just feel it, if you did internal martial arts for along time you would understand, its not that martial artists are stupid, its just they are more open to this type of thing, and actually experience it first hand within there own bodies, do you remember before people believed in gravity, what would a person who believed in gravity seem like to everyone else who didnt believe in it, and talking of gravity, could you prove that it is actually the thing that science claims it to be, how can you prove to me that gravity is a push and not a pull or vise versa, and yes i can tell you if there are moon bases, its called action if you go tot he moon (wich humans can do) then go there and see if its true, just like with this im taking action to prove or dissprove it, but yes even if i find no actual evidence onr ecord of orgone i will still believe it exists purely because of my own experiences with Qigong taiji and bagua,

Believe as you will. ;) These are also the same people that thought the sun revolved around the Earth, that drilled holes in people's skulls to let out the evil spirits, offered animal (and human( sacrifices to appease their gods, thought that everything was made of fire, wind, water, and/or earth, etc. Yes, they really knew a lot, didn't they? And I don't have to imagine a world and homes and cities without tech, all I need to do is read a few of the thousand history books to see what it was like. When the weather was bad people starved to death. They also died from the smallest injuries that we wouldn't even wink at today. Same with minor illnesses. The average lifespan was about 22 years (or less). Yes, they had it all figured out and life was much better, wasn't it?


and much thanks for helping me out with this light, dont take any of my debating to heart, im really gratefull that you will help me,


thanks peace.

No problem at all, Chi, I'm very glad to help you because you're a fellow human being and you want to learn. Those are both things I have a high regard for. :)

Ancient mystics had to endure incredible things, and were expected to make the incredible happen in many cases. I would happily sign up to be a mystic any day. You are given free license to pursue the attachment to the Earth you and your people have. The only laws you have to work with are those passed along from earlier generations, subject to your interpretation. While we all know a willingness to believe has been exploited to no end and that it will continue to be, it is reasonable to think that a mystic might have a broader idea of natural *order* than, say, some person having specialized in rocket science might today, and that they might pick up on a collective and ancestral knowledge, especially considering that many practiced meditation and the consumption of hallucinogens, poisons, and all sorts of brews.

That knowledge may have contained superstitions, or observable phenomena that validated real-world events, and served to inspire a social interest in an outlined destiny. That social interest would contribute directly to the realization of the idea in some form, after some time, and perhaps because the populace also ate ergot-infested crops, and took hallucinogens, and was built upon mythological explanations, they see their magic validated.

Moreso in those times, with a less-distracted sense of smell, one could easily smell ozone in the air, predicting rain. Imagine the multitude of other impressions one gets simply from smelling something. Ideas... not facts, not pre-established statements, but abstract, pure conceptualization.

I know not only my sense of smell would be much better if I didn't get distracted by the television, computers, books, traffic, society, clothes, food... etc! that has come about. Same goes for other, non-visual senses. Even sight, though! It's hard for me to look long distances unless they are lined with white paint and a dotted yellow line, because I am used to seeing things right in front of me, or at most 20'ish ft.

The transition from physics to emotion/perception is not fully understood, unless I have missed something. The results can be seen, but how consistent are they? Between two people? Between two sexes, races, species? Is that transition even physical? Why does the brain give so many ideas about something undefined, only to have all that operation stop as soon as someone defines an object?

One of the most primordial concepts we can lay claim to is diaticism, dualism, or as I like to put it, the numbers one and two. I'm guessing that has something to do with our bilatteral symmetry, and the fact that we experience night and day. Up and down. Absence/Presence. 0/1. Good/bad. Life/Death. Yin/Yang. Male/Female. Yes and no.
Anyway, I think that contributes to the tendency to see things in terms of two, and to see them in terms of working against/alongside each other. For most humans, there are two options, and taking one of those present you with another set. Sure there may be infinite options, but you have a decision to take one, or not.
So for humans, and our goals, it boils down to taking action or not. I'm not terribly scientific and terrified at math, though I respect heartily the power of each, (to those who think that invalidates everything I'm saying, I'm sorry, but there is more to life than measurements, as much as that might hurt to read) but I feel it is safe to say energy is a potential for a process. Humans can utilize energy in deciding to believe and act upon, or to ignore and forget something.

Is it so unreasonable to think that there is a healthy human element to an undetermined quantum state of potential collapsing into a certain state? Everything leading up to an event must be in precise order for that event to occur as planned or predicted. In a car crash, what occurs isn't just car A and car B travelling torwards each other up to a collision. It involves millions of details that our scientific instruments simply cannot measure all at once, let alone predict. Yeah, we know it will be a crash if they continue on course, but what factors influencing the drivers, or surrounding traffic contributed?

Maybe one of the drivers (or both) were drunk. Maybe one person dropped a cigarette and freaked out, and the other simply swerved to avoid another wreck. Maybe a mechanic somewhere forgot to tighten a bolt. These factors contribute directly, and through enough empirical investigation, they can be gleaned from the ensuing wreckage.

However, there are things that *seem* to contribute to an event without direct involvement. Perhaps a driver behind the entire thing has a random thought that he would see a crash today and that is the moment the partition is placed and the kitten gets gassed (Schroedinger's Cat). Due to the indirect nature of these events, they go largely unnoticed, or are pushed off as coincidence, in place of true sychronicity.

For those that study this, the idea that the brain is a receptor of quantum information, and that we have a role in that quantum state as observers, serves as a possible explanation. So we assist in defining that role (including everything we have been taught about reality) and actively create the reality we all see. I am rusty and would rather someone with a more current knowledge pick up on some of these details... heh. Holograms, man!!

Perhaps science only seems true because it has enough believers that material results have manifested.

I haven't tried explaning it in these terms for awhile, and haven't been back to these forums since fall of 2001, so I'm sorry if some of my post looks like a bad book report... seriously the most erudite trolls live here...

could people actually take the time to read this information please,

thankyou it would be most appreciated if people actually gave this a chance im not trying to preach some kind of scam like religion i gain nothing from teaching people of the way, i just do it because i actually care about nature and everything in this universe, including humans wich are part of the natural order wich we are abusing, please i beg people read the articles give qi a chance and try to learn from the teachings.



http://www.wofs.com/fsw.php?load=arcview&article=242&c=feng_shui_uk




http://www.matzkefamily.net/doug/papers/tucson2b.html



http://www.miqel.com/adepti/study-subjective-crystal-energy.html



http://www.meaningoflife.i12.com/qi.htm


peace

Do you know how to set up experiments that include carefully monitored controls as well as the test subjects? Do you understand the importance of statistical results? In other words, for something like testing the claims of the effects on growing plants you would need to do something like this. Not just a single plant or two but a few dozen with your "energy" applied and another few dozen without it. All the plants have to be in the same room so that they share all the same environmental conditions. They have to be watered equally - in carefully measured amounts - and all be in the same soil that was well mixed beforehand and with no additional nutrients added to any of them. They must all receive equal amounts of sunlight and measurements would have to be taken and recorded several times a day to insure that was so.

I've no idea what experiment(s) you plan on doing but they would all have to follow the same type of strict protocols as I just outlined. It's far from easy and requires a lot of time. And that's why I have no interest in doing so myself. It's not just a simple matter of throwing something together and looking at it every few days.
Actually the experiments on the plants were highly controlled. I know all about the scientific method, independant and dependant variables and things of that nature. This thread should be purely scientific. Ofcourse, with my limited resources, I'm unable to get a highly controlled environment, or study the molecular structure of something, or a 1000 test subjects, so we should propose amateur experiments that high school kids can do that should give us basic accuracy.

Through observation I've found that Qi or Orgone some how travels through electromagnetic waves. For instance, if you place an orgone generator under an antenna you get different results then placing it in other places. It's some how deeply connected waves, but I'm not entirely sure how. Also, if water is placed under it, it tastes more bitter, and energizes you more. Also, the room with the orgone generator should be hotter than other rooms.

I suspect that Qi is very connected to the observer. In Indian Scriptures it says that prana and consciousness are like twins, and when one changes the other does also.

I have some ideas, we should be able to through the scientific method test the effects of ORACs, Orgone generators, etc...on:
- Magnetism: Test the effects on a magnetic field (using iron fillings)
- Food: Test how long it takes before food start to spoil (or mold)
- Plants: Test the effects of plant growth in a dark room.
- Air: Test the effects of Orgone on air pollution.
- Etc...

Once we get a factual basis for Qi existing, we can find out exactly how Qi works, and what it really is, and we should be able to find the best device, and how to heal things very quickly or even instantaneously.

I think we need more experiment ideas, so I ask everyone, especially the skeptics to propose experiments to conduct that would conclusively verify the existence of Orgone energy.

Vitalone i just have to get 5 double terminate quarts crystals, then my HHG will be up and running its hard to get the right crystals, can you use anything else other thn those exact type crystals?, i will conduct and record any experiments including the ones you listed,


im glad that someone is as enthusiastic about this as i am, i will be glad to help you in any way just ask and ile try my best to help your studies, or if you need any advise of Qigong/taiji/shaolin/bagua etc.


peace

EmptyForceOfChi, you don't want to dump orgone and chi in the laps of scientists, especially "skeptics". If there is any advantage to a "skeptical" attitude, I don't think much of it. I've had too much experience with them and read too much of their work. A lot of them abandon all of their alleged scientific principles to attack any notion that they don't favor. Their junk science that they come up with to "debunk" an idea is often worse than the alleged junk science that they are debunking. When they do this it makes them pretty useless for anything. Don't waste your energy trying to convince people who willfully refuse to be convinced.

but people are only cheating themselves out of the benifits of Qi i just want to spread the teachings, i believe everybody can reason and grasp concepts if its explained to them on there terms of understanding, if people just wont accept it even when proof is put in there face, then i wont try witht hat person anymore,


but sometimes i do get frustrated when people are over skepticle i admit it does irritate me because to me its like handing somebody a wonderfull gift of priceless value, and they spit it back in your face and its insulting to everything i stand for, but i dont actually let it get to me ever, but it does irritate me.

peace

EmptyForceOfChi, you don't want to dump orgone and chi in the laps of scientists, especially "skeptics". If there is any advantage to a "skeptical" attitude, I don't think much of it. I've had too much experience with them and read too much of their work. A lot of them abandon all of their alleged scientific principles to attack any notion that they don't favor. Their junk science that they come up with to "debunk" an idea is often worse than the alleged junk science that they are debunking. When they do this it makes them pretty useless for anything. Don't waste your energy trying to convince people who willfully refuse to be convinced.

This is true, that's why I asked the skeptics to propose an experiment that would verify if orgone exists or not. The skeptics will probably not answer, because most skeptics have already made up their mind to believe what they want.

The truth is you can find evidence for and against everything in science, including widely accepted theories.

VitalOne, you are right. You can find evidence for or against a lot of popular scientific theories. Let's don't bring any into this thread. We can always start another thread.

To me the evidence for the existence of orgone is as clear as the evidence for light. I really don't understand people who can't see it. They're from a different planet. I think that I'm better off admitting this than beating around the bush. There is only so far that they should be allowed in to my mental space. The scary thing is that they want in at all.

i understand where your both comming from 100% but some people are just too deep intot here ways to believe in something like this, they see it as magic and mysticism, i just look at it like this "ok its a form of energy" what i dont get is this, people think Qi goes against science? i really dont see how it does i actually see Qi to explain a few things by existing, it makes you realise how everything works on a larger scale, Qi actually supports science in a few ways, like they way weather behaves like the way vibrations act, on a sub level, many many things, but anyways ok we have 3 people here willing to conduct experiments when we all get our devices up and running lets start the testing a.s.a.p , but what we have to prepare for is skeptics actually dissmissing our evidence, saying it wasnt properly controlled, or it dosent count because your amatures, ir something of this nature, Vitalone you had some very good experiments to conduct,


if all of the experiments we conduct end up bieng posative supporting Qi, will you skeptics actually acknowledge this?


peace,

I suggest that you prepare to ignore the skeptics and treat them with the contempt that they deserve. Budget less than ten percent of your time and energy for them. Be strict about it. When you engage with them you have them right where they want you.

No, I don't think that when you have proof positive the skeptics will acknowledge it. There are some very good articles about skeptics out there, and about "spinics", cynics who apply a spin to every debunking effort. Even when they are allegedly on the side of mainstream science, maybe even especially when they are on the side of mainstream science, it is wrong for these people to use the public the way that they do.

Spinics (http://www.xasa.com/grupos/en/news/article/342374/news.admin.net-abuse.usenet)

James Demeo on Skeptics and Orgone (http://www.orgonelab.org/gardner.htm)

Randy LeJeune on the Nature of Scientific Skepticism (http://www.uri-geller.com/lejeune.htm)

James DeMeo's articles page (http://www.orgonelab.org/articles.htm)

Getting into it with the skeptics can be compelling and addictive. It is also a waste of precious time and energy. One good article is worth a lot more than many hours of attempting to babysit so-called skeptics. They are perfectly capable of smearing fingerpaints on the walls and eating library paste from the jars without your help. If you think they're cute and engaging, that's your lookout. I'm looking back at seven mostly wasted years. Unlike children, they will never grow up. They will never clean up their act. They will waste your time and drag you down.

Ok, lets forget about the skeptics.
We have to figure out exactly how Qi behaves, and exactly what it is. If we're able to do this, then we'll be able to manipulate Qi exceedingly easy, and build better devices.

So what do we know about Qi so far? Here's what I've observed and confirmed:
- Organic matter absorbs Qi
- Metallic matter attracts and radiates Qi
- Qi and Yi are influenced by each other
- Electromagnetic radiation has a direct connection to Qi
- Produces Heat (ironically, hot objects produce electromagnetic radiation...a coincidence?)
- Has healing effects for everything

Some connections between Qi and electromagnetism:
- Electromagnetic radiation is mass-free, and interacts with matter
- "the electromagnetic force is the one responsible for practically all the phenomena one encounters in daily life, with the exception of gravity."
- "a field, encompassing all of space"

I'm still completely puzzled as to what Qi really is. There must be a frequency that causes Qi to be produced, this would explain the vital energy tapes, also certain geometry should be able to produce Qi. If Qi is vital energy, then it is separate from EM, light, and gravity. If it is the life energy, then it is neccessary for life, yet exists in everything? Also, if there are different variations of Qi, then is the OR, or positive Qi simply another variation?

Everything is leading me to believe that Qi is electromagnetic radiation itself. Positive Qi and Negative Qi being different variations of the electromagnetic radiation. For instance, people probably can become healed when exposed to a certain electromagnetic radiation....it seems to make sense. But Reich came to a different conclusion that Orgone is the medium for electromagnetism, light, and gravity....so I'm not so sure...

I also have a radical theory that if the Qi is high enough, it will do whatever the Yi intends...meaning any desire, no matter how impossible can be fulfilled.

I am not all that sure that Orgone is the medium for electromagnetism, light, or gravity. I think that it is a medium. It absorbs, re-emits, and scatters photons. It also wanders through matter, performing certain functions involving the absorbtion and emission of energy. You can see the particles appearing to float around in the air during the day. It's sort of like an electromagnetic field line cut off from the electromagnet. It's also sort of like a different type of atom.

i need a little help with my HHG, is there any alternative to using double terminated quarts crystals?. im finding it hard to get any 5 crystals that are the same size and width and quality, i found one that i might purchase from this funky little shop they have tons of intereting things in there,




also im want to create the worlds largest cloudbuster, i really want to do an experiment that will make a huge impact that everyone can witness even all of you can witness my experiment by looking on the weather channel or seeing forcast results, im going to make a cloudbuster so huge that it will effect the weather patterns of the whole of london (england if possible) on a high hilltop on the boarder of east london/essex, i will make the biggest one that i can, probably out of, scaffholding pipes, a fish pond mould, and the largest quarts crystals that you can buy, i will post the exact dates of my experiment on this forum so people can document weather patterns and changes it the atmosphere etc, i would like input on constructing this huge devise please from a few people on this forum, all the help given will be a big help thanks!.



peace.

I am not all that sure that Orgone is the medium for electromagnetism, light, or gravity. I think that it is a medium. It absorbs, re-emits, and scatters photons. It also wanders through matter, performing certain functions involving the absorbtion and emission of energy. You can see the particles appearing to float around in the air during the day. It's sort of like an electromagnetic field line cut off from the electromagnet. It's also sort of like a different type of atom.

I read some scripture about unmanifest matter...I think that's what Qi is. Also in this Indian Scripture it talks about Prana and how there are different sheaths like the material body is one, then prana, then the mental world, etc...So Qi is probably unmanifest matter that expresses itself clearly through electromagnetic activity, gravity, and light like Reich said.


i need a little help with my HHG, is there any alternative to using double terminated quarts crystals?. im finding it hard to get any 5 crystals that are the same size and width and quality, i found one that i might purchase from this funky little shop they have tons of intereting things in there,



also im want to create the worlds largest cloudbuster, i really want to do an experiment that will make a huge impact that everyone can witness even all of you can witness my experiment by looking on the weather channel or seeing forcast results, im going to make a cloudbuster so huge that it will effect the weather patterns of the whole of london (england if possible) on a high hilltop on the boarder of east london/essex, i will make the biggest one that i can, probably out of, scaffholding pipes, a fish pond mould, and the largest quarts crystals that you can buy, i will post the exact dates of my experiment on this forum so people can document weather patterns and changes it the atmosphere etc, i would like input on constructing this huge devise please from a few people on this forum, all the help given will be a big help thanks!.

You might want to consider just buying one, I think if you search around the net you can find good Quartz Crystals.

Also, about the cloudbuster I've read that it has many dangerous effects, and that it's difficult to remove the DOR.

what about water, fresh running stream water, couldent the bad Qi just purify going through the steam without comming onto the opperator?, or what about fixing manny HHG's around the cloudbuster to convert te evil Qi to good Qi, also i will have high immunities to the evil Qi, i have practised Qigong and taiji since an early age, my overall Qi Shen and Jing are very very high for my age, even the shaolin monks at the brixton temple were puzzled asking me if i am shaolin first time i went there to study shaolin gong fu. and i said no i practise taiji and Qigong since i was a small boy and then they asked to sparr me and moved me up to advanced forms and methods classes after that, i would be able to create a good cloudbuster and i am sensative to qi energy (good or bad) so i could feel the best way to deal with leaks and ways to properly convert it and transfer it away from myself.


peace

EmptyForceOfChi, if you do build the cloudbuster, the water must be in electrical contact with the ground. A cement pond would be OK. Metals might be OK. It is best if it is an actual pond of water in direct contact with earth.

Salt was one of Wilhelm Reich's favorite things for cleansing a room of DOR. He would put a lot of salt in bowls of water and run wires from the bowls to a good electrical ground. Their range is very limited, good enough for the room they are in.

Hey guys, I think I've finally found the missing link to everything

Scalar Waves

I think Orgone energy is a scalar wave (see Nikola Tesla).

Why?

- Scalar waves are purely mass-free
- Connected to electromagnetism, but not electromagnetism
- Affects gravitational waves
- Scalar technology has been used to cause rain, tornados, and weather changes
- Scalar waves exists everywhere

It seems like this explains everything basically. This is explains why I found such a profound link with electromagnetic radiation. I had already suspected that Qi behaves wave-like.

Some notes about Scalar Waves:
- No Frequency (Hertz)
- Travels through 4D Space (not 3D)
- There's an infinite amount of available

I think this is what Orgone is, though I'm still unsure.

there is a big lake near where i will erect the cloudbuster device,

and thats interesting about the energy vitalone i will look into it soon,

peace

VitalOne, with respect, I don't think that scalar waves are it. Orgone particles tumble around in the air and emit small flashes of light when exposed to sunlight. I haven't made much of a study of scalar waves but they seem to be radically different. Scalar waves are supposedly a component of the EM wave that was known even as early as Maxwell, but which doesn't manifest itself under the usual conditions, but might when using a kind of coil winding that we don't normally find useful. Scalar waves are reputedly faster than light. I can't find a lot on the Internet that makes much sense because scalar waves are also popular in pseudoscience and scams.

Orgone, scalar waves, and EM (Electromagnetic) waves are distinctly different manifestations of the same thing, in my opinion. So the answer is yes and no. Yes, they are related. No, they are not the same thing. The fascinating question is whether scalar and regular waves together generate the orgone particle, and I will call that a maybe. I don't have time or energy to set aside to work that out today, if I did, I have another project ahead of it. It was worth looking at Google for it today because I got to see anarticle by Tom Bearden (http://www.catandogs.net/english/Scalar_Waves/scalar_waves.html) that actually appeared to make sense and is worth saving. He sees relativity in Maxwell's equations and I see relativity in Newtons because, IMHO, these deal with lower orders of the same thing. It's like the lower orders are the derivatives or the higher orders are the integrals.

Yes, if we can build better theoretical underpinnings for orgone, the theory is more likely to be accepted. This is an old controversy, between theoretical physicists and empiricists. There is an apocryphal story about Roger Bacon dying of pneumonia after catching a cold during an experiment in which he stuffed a turkey carcass with snow. Can you just imagine a 13th century man advocating the experimental method of physical theory? How about trying to imagine the physical theory of the 13th century, before most of the mathematics that we are now familiar with, long before gravitational theory or mathematical descriptions of the orbits of the planets, and trying to apply Aristotle's atomic theory then?

VitalOne, with respect, I don't think that scalar waves are it. Orgone particles tumble around in the air and emit small flashes of light when exposed to sunlight. I haven't made much of a study of scalar waves but they seem to be radically different. Scalar waves are supposedly a component of the EM wave that was known even as early as Maxwell, but which doesn't manifest itself under the usual conditions, but might when using a kind of coil winding that we don't normally find useful. Scalar waves are reputedly faster than light. I can't find a lot on the Internet that makes much sense because scalar waves are also popular in pseudoscience and scams.

Orgone, scalar waves, and EM (Electromagnetic) waves are distinctly different manifestations of the same thing, in my opinion. So the answer is yes and no. Yes, they are related. No, they are not the same thing. The fascinating question is whether scalar and regular waves together generate the orgone particle, and I will call that a maybe. I don't have time or energy to set aside to work that out today, if I did, I have another project ahead of it. It was worth looking at Google for it today because I got to see anarticle by Tom Bearden (http://www.catandogs.net/english/Scalar_Waves/scalar_waves.html) that actually appeared to make sense and is worth saving. He sees relativity in Maxwell's equations and I see relativity in Newtons because, IMHO, these deal with lower orders of the same thing. It's like the lower orders are the derivatives or the higher orders are the integrals.

Yes, if we can build better theoretical underpinnings for orgone, the theory is more likely to be accepted. This is an old controversy, between theoretical physicists and empiricists. There is an apocryphal story about Roger Bacon dying of pneumonia after catching a cold during an experiment in which he stuffed a turkey carcass with snow. Can you just imagine a 13th century man advocating the experimental method of physical theory? How about trying to imagine the physical theory of the 13th century, before most of the mathematics that we are now familiar with, long before gravitational theory or mathematical descriptions of the orbits of the planets, and trying to apply Aristotle's atomic theory then?
I'm not 100% sure orgone is a scalar wave, but pretty sure.

The scalar wave theory isn't really pseudoscience, Nikola Tesla (the famous inventor of the radio transmitter, among other things) was the one who founded it (it's also called a Tesla Wave).

Through observation I noticed that Orgone is connected to electromagnetism for some reason. If you connect a orgone generator to a audio amplifier, the energy is amplified, audio amplifiers ampify electromagnetic waves (20-20,000Hz). I couldn't figure out the real connection to electromagnetic radiation, but scalar waves explain why.

Well I'm still unsure of all of this, more experiments need to be conducted to be able to form a complete, full theory.

i wasnt aware of scalar energy, i dont know enough about it to have a standpoint to be truthfull, maybe its not the exact same energy, maybe its the same "type" of energy maybe there are many energies simular to both of these that we arent aware of, im pretty sure there are plety more energies and forces we dont know of, maybe actually proving one or 2 of them exist will pave the way to finding out about many more things, it could be a good doorway into a whole hidden realm of different energies working in sync with our universe but also having some other effects in plains we arent aware of,

peace

i wasnt aware of scalar energy, i dont know enough about it to have a standpoint to be truthfull, maybe its not the exact same energy, maybe its the same "type" of energy maybe there are many energies simular to both of these that we arent aware of, im pretty sure there are plety more energies and forces we dont know of, maybe actually proving one or 2 of them exist will pave the way to finding out about many more things, it could be a good doorway into a whole hidden realm of different energies working in sync with our universe but also having some other effects in plains we arent aware of,

peace

Yeah, I think we shouldn't focus on how orgone works for now. First we should do more experiments, and try to find the most effective method to heal with Orgone, and generate massive amounts of OR

i think a test like this should be done,

putting HHG's in places of bad energy would be good for testing, like see if radiation levels reduce from it,

healing is very good thats what qi is used mostly for,

cloudusters could prove qi existance, we could do tests with rainfall, where is a place on earth that hasnt seen a downfall of rain for like, over 600 years, if we construct a cloudbuster there in time, and i rains there as soon as its erected in the deserty area, after no rain for over 6 centuries, wouldent this prove it?.


peace

i think a test like this should be done,

putting HHG's in places of bad energy would be good for testing, like see if radiation levels reduce from it,

healing is very good thats what qi is used mostly for,

cloudusters could prove qi existance, we could do tests with rainfall, where is a place on earth that hasnt seen a downfall of rain for like, over 600 years, if we construct a cloudbuster there in time, and i rains there as soon as its erected in the deserty area, after no rain for over 6 centuries, wouldent this prove it?.


peace
Not neccessarily, I mean even if it does rain a lot of people will just say it happen through natural occurences and it's just a coincidence. We need to do experiments through the scientific method to prove anything.

but dont scientists use weather experiments to prove various other things in the atmosphear?, if it hasnt rained ther ein over 500+ years and it suddenly rains the day the cloudbuster is erected, people must realise it isnt a coincidence?,



how do you suggest we prove it, so that noone can dispute the facts?

peace

Rebirth

Hey, I just started a potato experiment with a simple hybrid generator + accumulator I made. The potato is very old, and dry, I will see if the orgone causes it to lose it's wrinkles, etc...or if it even has any affects

There's a flaw in my orgone accumulator box though, is there any material that acts as an insulator for orgone? The orgone still manages to go through fabrics, and other organic materials

Shoot, I made a mistake, some how I made it amplify the DOR from the potato, I knew because when I opened the box I immidiately felt sick, good thing I found out in time

VitalOne, I don't know what you're using for the generator. It's a real good idea if you are familiar with the literature, because anything focuses orgone energy can focus DOR, and the DOR can be generated on the spot by electromagnetic waves like the ones from your computer, power line, or fluorescent lights, including but not limited to. If you use the SAPA recipe, it has to be changed before two weeks are up. Pour the residue down the drain and rinse with a lot of clean water or bury it under a foot or two of soil.

Keep trying ideas. People have got to conduct experiments and establish what does what. We can't prove anything without knowing our subject. One thing I've learned is that SAPA bions don't seem to much care what is used for a culture medium as long as it has potassium chloride in it and something organic like milk or broth. The "radiation" is really good for a sore throat, as in the infection seems to disappear fast. Never ingest the cultures by any means. They seem to leave behind a waste product that produces DOR.

This shit has the potential to be quite fucking fascinating.
Holy shit i swear alot.

Well, I'm not sure if I made the accumulator correctly, it's definitely not a traditional design, but I fixed it so it outputs a whole lot of OR. My design generates and orgone field using geometry.

So what have noticed so far?

Today the potato seems less loose, I don't know if that's good or bad. But before it was wrinkled up and lose, know it's still wrinkled but all tightened together. I should start taking pictures and documenting all of this.

The orgone seems to travel through any material. The night before I had swollen tonsils, but today it's all gone (?).

Also, does tin foil count as a metal? Does it also attract and radiate the Orgone? Because that's what I used...also Orgone follows optic laws...so if I had like a mirror box, that would keep the orgone in right? Is there any way to control the direction of orgone? It seems to always spread out everywhere.

This site is nice - http://educate-yourself.org/dc/dcwhatisorgone.shtml

I have no idea if the potato experiment can prove anything.

Orgone passes through metal. If it didn't it would never get through to the inside of an accumulator. Aluminum seems to work in my experience. That "tinfoil" is made of aluminum. Reich liked iron better, that is iron or steel, magnetic materials, but I think he also liked copper.

You're not trying to keep the orgone in any more than a car keeps heat in in the sunlight. You are creating a place where a greater concentration exists. Orgone must be free to move in and out. According to the literature I have read, orgone gets stale if someone does manage to contain it. This is like in the illness that develops because of character armoring.

Orgone is not a radiation. It is a particle that absorbs and emits radiation. Compared to radiation like light, it is almost stationary. It can be given a direction, but there is a limit to how much it should be accelerated. You could say it gets "too hot." Just from observation you can see that it has to be a heavy particle to absorb visible quantities of light radiation and emit it. These are the little lights that you can see darting about against a blue sky.

I have no idea if the potato experiment can prove anything.

Orgone passes through metal. If it didn't it would never get through to the inside of an accumulator. Aluminum seems to work in my experience. That "tinfoil" is made of aluminum. Reich liked iron better, that is iron or steel, magnetic materials, but I think he also liked copper.

You're not trying to keep the orgone in any more than a car keeps heat in in the sunlight. You are creating a place where a greater concentration exists. Orgone must be free to move in and out. According to the literature I have read, orgone gets stale if someone does manage to contain it. This is like in the illness that develops because of character armoring.

Orgone is not a radiation. It is a particle that absorbs and emits radiation. Compared to radiation like light, it is almost stationary. It can be given a direction, but there is a limit to how much it should be accelerated. You could say it gets "too hot." Just from observation you can see that it has to be a heavy particle to absorb visible quantities of light radiation and emit it. These are the little lights that you can see darting about against a blue sky.
Hmmm, well what type of experiment could I do?

I wonder if it can change the PH of a liquid. I'm trying to make the perfect Orgone generator/accumulator. Also, I've noticed by attitude and thoughts affect it, and can change the energy.

Hmmm...

Well, I said that I'm not sure if the potato experiment will show anything, but please keep working with it. Just about the time you think nothing will come out of an idea it does something unpredictable, and that's the point of experimentation. If it does something that you don't expect, you've learned something. That is the only way to learn something by experiment. I will also say that if I say that I don't think something will come out of a given experiment, that is just about the time that you turn something up. I am a scientist. I admit when I don't know.

Changing the pH of a liquid is a good idea. Its conductivity and reactions to polarized light are other good ideas.

In my opinion, when mirrors and prisms affect orgone, they actually affect the electromagnetic waves like light, infra-red, and ultraviolet. Those in turn affect the orgone.

One bit of advice: Do not uncritically believe everything you read, even if I write it. I do tend to express opinion as if it were fact, simply because it's tiring and redundant to say "in my opinion" every other sentence. The observation of the nature of orgone is truly an observation. Saying that it is a certain color and moves a certain way is like saying that a cloud is white or grey and moves in a straight line or circle. I have seen it. I believe that what I see is an actual form of energy and that it acts like a particle. It's a lot like an atom that hasn't condensed into a harder form, what I see or think I see. Einstein's formula tells you that a single atom produces a bit more than a thousandth of an erg when it is converted to energy. I don't have the time to do the figures right now, but I think that makes an atom worth about 10^11 photons, which means that one atom could catch, hold, and fling enough photons to be visible. Again, I don't have the time to work the numbers right this minute. If the same "mass" could exist as a diffuse particle that was still coherent, it should both have optical effects and be able to be influenced by electromagnetic waves. If all this is for real, it could explain the formation of matter around orgone accumulators.

Great site Vitalone, ty

I am a scientist. I admit when I don't know.

MetaKron, you are a scientist?!!!

After reading this thread your standpoint on the heat pump issue is now clear to me. Perhaps it is the negative energy of my life force that causes my heat pump to contravene the laws of thermodynamics.

Deal with it, Flunch. Deal with it.

Hey,

I'm abandoning the potato project, I don't really see any regrowth (is that even possible?). Anyway, when I took the potato out I noticed these type of white spark things, I'm fully convinced those are bions. I'm only noticed these white park things that move chaotically after I put on a orgone generator or accumulator.

Apart from that, from the potato project I observed that Orgone passes through fabrics and clothing quickly, and that metals don't really hold any orgone.

So now I'm doing an experiment to see how much our thoughts and feelings affect things.

Wilhelm Reich said that those who had a higher charge would see the orgone particles more easily. I've been able to see them forever. They show up best in sunlight against a clear sky.

Organic materials hold the charge. Metals repel the charge but it passes through them. Too heavy a layer of metal might absorb the energy of the charge and if grounded would pass that energy to ground. This is much like the way that electromagnetic waves interact with metal. I'm not sure how to explain how layers of metal and organic material concentrate the energy in the center except by analogy. Like I said, it's a lot like a hot car in the sunlight. With orgone we're not always sure how it works but it works. With electricity a lot of the time we're not absolutely sure how it works but we know how it works and we can use that.

Wilhelm Reich said that those who had a higher charge would see the orgone particles more easily. I've been able to see them forever. They show up best in sunlight against a clear sky.

Idiot, they are called 'floaters';

http://www.allaboutvision.com/conditions/spotsfloats.htm

.. and are a potential indicator of ocular problems, not some mystic energy field!

You should go and see an eye doctor as soon as possible.

Idiot, they are called 'floaters';

http://www.allaboutvision.com/conditions/spotsfloats.htm

.. and are a potential indicator of ocular problems, not some mystic energy field!

You should go and see an eye doctor as soon as possible.

Idiot, Wilhelm Reich photographed them. How do you catch "floaters" on film?

I know what floaters are, and I know what they look like. They do not look like little sparks suspended in the air at various distances from the observer.

William Reich photographed what _YOU_ see? How?

I was talking about what _YOU_ see. And YOU see floaters, and YES they do look like little sparks in some cases, and you should definitely go and get your eyes tested.

Thanks to various blows to the head I have some retinal atrophy, this is serious stuff, and if left unchecked can lead to blindness. You may have a partially detached retina, or be leaning towards diabetes. Forget the mystical explanation for while, and go and see a doctor!

William Reich photographed what _YOU_ see? How?

I was talking about what _YOU_ see. And YOU see floaters, and YES they do look like little sparks in some cases, and you should definitely go and get your eyes tested.

Thanks to various blows to the head I have some retinal atrophy, this is serious stuff, and if left unchecked can lead to blindness. You may have a partially detached retina, or be leaning towards diabetes. Forget the mystical explanation for while, and go and see a doctor!

You are just plain wrong in this case. Give it up.

Give up a valid medical explanation in favour of a mystical form of energy invented by some pervert who died in jail? Hmmm, now, let's see, does the latter sound reputable?

Have you had an eye exam? Can you categorially rule out floaters? Expecially as the circumstances you describe seeing 'orgones' are EXACTLY when most people see floaters?

Got any links to Riech's 'orgone' pictures, btw?

Give up a valid medical explanation in favour of a mystical form of energy invented by some pervert who died in jail? Hmmm, now, let's see, does the latter sound reputable?

Have you had an eye exam? Can you categorially rule out floaters? Expecially as the circumstances you describe seeing 'orgones' are EXACTLY when most people see floaters?

Got any links to Riech's 'orgone' pictures, btw?
"some pervert who died in jail"...yeah phlo, i got a picture of your sad self as as the fukin jailer!

"some pervert who died in jail"...yeah phlo, i got a picture of your sad self as as the fukin jailer!

What am I wearing?

What am I wearing?

I think you've already said more than you had to say, troll. Go away.

you guys need to stop with the insults it is futile, just be calm and productive sticking to the debate without emotion why is that so hard?.


anyways i am unsure about these sparks, i have studied Qi/Orgone energy for 17 years or more and i have never seen it, the aura fields they capture is not Qi energy thats some kind of light trick i think.

Qi energy cannot be seen, it is like sound, or wind, maybe they will inent some kind of device i the future that can actually see sound/Qi/wind/gravity/ and other invisible forces etc, but as far as i know, Qi is invisible to the naked eye and cameras, as is sound.



peace.

Today the potato seems less loose, I don't know if that's good or bad. But before it was wrinkled up and lose, know it's still wrinkled but all tightened together. I should start taking pictures and documenting all of this.

The orgone seems to travel through any material. The night before I had swollen tonsils, but today it's all gone (?).
What I find infinitely sad is the obvious sincerity in this post, coupled with an equally obvious detachment from reality.
Anyone new to this thread, don't waste time reading it all. I'll summarise for you.
EmptyForceof Chi and Vital One: sincere, naivity
Metakron: Deep cynicism about scientists and skeptics and a touch of opportunism, maybe.
Light: Total scepticism delivered in a humane manner.
Momentum7: lots of momentum, but moving in the wrong direction.
Duendy & Phlogistician: Transient argument, unconnected with thread
Ophiolite: self righteous pomposity

What I find infinitely sad is the obvious sincerity in this post, coupled with an equally obvious detachment from reality.
Anyone new to this thread, don't waste time reading it all. I'll summarise for you.
EmptyForceof Chi and Vital One: sincere, naivity
Metakron: Deep cynicism about scientists and skeptics and a touch of opportunism, maybe.
Light: Total scepticism delivered in a humane manner.
Momentum7: lots of momentum, but moving in the wrong direction.
Duendy & Phlogistician: Transient argument, unconnected with thread
Ophiolite: self righteous pomposity


nicely done,


peace,

Hey steady on Ophi, my reply to that basket case duendy was nothing to do with the topic, but my reply to Metakron was sincere. If they are seeing flashes of light, it IS an idicator of an ocular problem.

What I find infinitely sad is the obvious sincerity in this post, coupled with an equally obvious detachment from reality.
Anyone new to this thread, don't waste time reading it all. I'll summarise for you.
EmptyForceof Chi and Vital One: sincere, naivity
Metakron: Deep cynicism about scientists and skeptics and a touch of opportunism, maybe.
Light: Total scepticism delivered in a humane manner.
Momentum7: lots of momentum, but moving in the wrong direction.
Duendy & Phlogistician: Transient argument, unconnected with thread
Ophiolite: self righteous pomposity

Not believing in your arm-waving dismissals is not the same thing as being detached from reality. Making observations is a way to get closer to reality. You should try it some time.

Hey steady on Ophi, my reply to that basket case duendy was nothing to do with the topic, but my reply to Metakron was sincere. If they are seeing flashes of light, it IS an idicator of an ocular problem.

It looked like trolling to me, especially since you had to make the dig about Reich dying in jail and being a pervert. For God's sake, just how much nonsense from you do you think I am going to swallow?

Hey steady on Ophi, my reply to that basket case duendy was nothing to do with the topic, but my reply to Metakron was sincere.It was a summary. You almost didn't make the final edit. ;)

Metakron, I make my living out of making observations. If I didn't do it effectively I wouldn't still be employed. That would appear to invalidate that particular line of personal attack. Would you care to try another?

What I find infinitely sad is the obvious sincerity in this post, coupled with an equally obvious detachment from reality.
Anyone new to this thread, don't waste time reading it all. I'll summarise for you.

me#######ok, lets hear it?

EmptyForceof Chi and Vital One: sincere, naivity

me&&&&&&&true

Metakron: Deep cynicism about scientists and skeptics and a touch of opportunism, maybe.

me&&&&&&&i like te dude, got good insight.

Light: Total scepticism delivered in a humane manner.

me(((((((('humane manner' this nasty fingered thing is troll material

Momentum7: lots of momentum, but moving in the wrong direction.

me((((((((((not sure about this charcter thru unfamiliarity

Duendy & Phlogistician: Transient argument, unconnected with thread

me)))))))hah...know what u mean, but yer wrong. if ANYone had talked about Wilhelm Reich lik that, or ANYone who had/has been persected by fascists like he had, in SUCh a disrespectful and utterly ignorant manner i would have defended that person....phlo is a nasty arsed muthafker. only thing is he dont know it. so i am teelin you!

Ophiolite: self righteous pomposity

me))))))))and honest!

Well, I'm telling you, you wouldn't think that "legitimate" scientists would bother to troll the thread.

I needed the exercise. Anyway, I stopped being a 'legitimate' scientist when I became an engineer. Now I can make things happen rather than explain why they did.

William Reich photographed what _YOU_ see? How?

I was talking about what _YOU_ see. And YOU see floaters, and YES they do look like little sparks in some cases, and you should definitely go and get your eyes tested.

This argument is illogical, if I have blurred vision and I take a photograph the photo won't also be blurred. This argument is unnaturally foolish.

Ophiolite, thanks for your pointless input, which serves no purpose.

Anyway, anyone have any ideas for experiments that I can conduct? I need something measurable. I can already generate the orgone, I just need something simple and measurable to test it on.

Ophiolite, thanks for your pointless input, which serves no purpose.Thank you for your kind words. I am pleased that you think I suceeded in matching the tenor of the entire thread.

Ophiolite, thanks for your pointless input, which serves no purpose.

Anyway, anyone have any ideas for experiments that I can conduct? I need something measurable. I can already generate the orgone, I just need something simple and measurable to test it on.

Plant growth is a favorite, or growth of sprouts. One trouble is that it is difficult to set up controls. Orgone is pervasive. You need places that are identical in every expect except for the orgone concentrations.

Water draws off excessive charges of orgone and DOR. The first line of defense against a DOR condition is a bath. The way to settle your own orgone charge between control subjects and test subjects is to wash, preferably to take a bath or shower.

If you try the plant experiment, the control and test subjects can't be close to each other. At the very least, physically separate them as far as you can within the house. If you use grow lights, use the LED or incandescent type and not the fluorescent type. You don't want the orgone source to be near any sources of high voltage electricity, X-rays, or radioactivity, including monitors and television sets.

This argument is illogical, if I have blurred vision and I take a photograph the photo won't also be blurred. This argument is unnaturally foolish.

Well that depends on the lens arrangement in the camera. With an SLR, or rangefinder type focus arrangement, it is possible. Some cameras have an adjustment for the operators focussing problems, because operating them with glasses can be difficult, so you can say, set a +2 on the eyepiece to do the job that your glasses would. First though, the camera should be focussed on a object at a known distance, and then the focus dialed in on the ring on the lens. Then adjust the eyepiece.

I knew a guy that shot a reel of 8mm cine footage for a stop motion film, very time consuimg, and the whole thing was out of focus, after all that effort, because he forgot to calibrate the focus before adjusting the eyepiece, as he operated the camera without his glasses.

So stop thinking in meta terms, and actually think about the physics, and maybe you won't call people 'foolish' so easily.

Anyway, that dealt with, back to the topic.

Metakron's sentence implied that Reich had photographed what Metakron had seen, not that Metakron had seen a phenomema in person, similar to what Metakron had seen in Reichs photographs.

Got it? Good.

It looked like trolling to me, especially since you had to make the dig about Reich dying in jail and being a pervert. For God's sake, just how much nonsense from you do you think I am going to swallow?

So are you saying a man that attached electrodes to his penis to measure his orgasm, and who was serially unfaithful to his wife, wasn't a perv? He was obviously looking for something in sex that he could not get from his wife, or a string of other partners, and so, looked to 'orgones'. That is not healthy.

Are you say