One Evolution Mystery Solved???

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Orleander, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Seriously??? This is being researched?
    Since I hate Brussels sprouts does this mean I am more closely related to Neanderthals than modern humans? :bawl:


    Neanderthals Likely Didn't Like Brussels Sprouts

    Aug. 13, 2009 -- Spanish researchers say they're a step closer to resolving a "mystery of evolution" -- why some people like Brussels sprouts but others hate them.

    They have found that a gene in modern humans that makes some people dislike a bitter chemical called phenylthiocarbamide, or PTC, was also present in Neanderthals hundreds of thousands of years ago.

    The scientists made the discovery after recovering and sequencing a fragment of the TAS2R38 gene taken from 48,000-year-old Neanderthal bones found at a site in El Sidron, in northern Spain, they said in a report released Wednesday by the Spanish National Research Council (CSIC).

    "This indicates that variation in bitter taste perception predates the divergence of the lineages leading to Neanderthals and modern humans," they said....
     
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  3. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

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    Yes Orleander. Believe it or not, Neanderthal genomics and human evolution are being researched quite a lot.

    Seriously.


    No.
     
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  5. Fifteendaysofbliss Registered Member

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    Even if you were more closely related to Neanderthals, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Neanderthals were, in fact, physiologically superior to modern humans in a number of different areas. Just as Modern humans are superior to Neanderthals in a number of different ways. It is yet to be proven in favor of or against the theory that Homo Neanderthalensis is in fact Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis, thus allowing modern humans and Neanderthals to interbreed, however if by some chance you are more closely related to them, my guess would be that the fact that you actually exists means that your genes are just as good as everyone else's on average according to the laws of natural selection.

    The reason that the the Neanderthals died out wasn't due to an intellectual or physiological weakness. They died out basically as a result of competition for food in a changing environment.

    Since the Neanderthals required around 2-3 times the energy needs of a modern day human being, the competition for food scored in favor of modern day humans (or the closest thing at the time- the cromagnons) who did not have the same amount of muscle mass for insulation, since they evolved in a warmer environment.

    The Neanderthals also tended to dwell in the valleys in order to conserve energy by being closer to food sources and not having to metabolize at a higher rate to keep themselves warm. Cro-magnons, however, use to reside mainly in the higher mountain ranges, which ended up being a greater advantage, for although they were using more energy, the view from these heights allowed them to survey their territories more effectively.

    Probably one of the most significant factors that contributed to the downfall of the Neanderthals was the changing environment. Towards the end of the Neanderthals' reign over Europe, the landscape began to quickly change from a forrest-dominated region to open planes. Since the cromagnons evolved in an area where this was already very much the case, they were already very prepared for this. The spears that the cromagnons possessed were far lighter than those that Neanderthals possessed, making them far better suited to traveling across open savannas. The spears of the Neanderthals were to heavy, large and slow. Since there were so few neanderthals, the likelihood of altering the craftsmanship which had so far sustained them was slim. The cromagnon population was also far more fertile, since there was a greater degree of genetic variability.

    Thus, Neanderthals- like almost every other extinct species on earth- did not die out due to inferiority, as is commonly misconceived, but rather due to the random nature of genetic adaptations that pre-conditioned cromagnons to be better suited to a warmer climate. If we were to have another ice-age (or very significantly cold weather), however, without heating, you would find that those who were built like Neanderthals would be most likely to survive the longest. There are some clips on youtube which exhibit this.

    If it is proven that Neandethals are a sub-species of the Homo Sapiens species, as Homo Idaltu has already been proven to be, then this debate about superiority amongst Neanderthals and modern humans would almost be the equivalent of a racial debate, and thus is reminiscent of so many historical clashes between races. Many sources argue that this is definitely not a possibility with the availability of the Homo Sapiens Sapiens and Neanderthal genomes available, however there is in fact not enough viable evidence to prove this without a doubt.

    It is important, then, to remember that in the case of genetic variability amongst extreemly closely related populations, superiority in most cases is a fruitless argument. For, populations are only superior in their adaptations to their native environments and thus, inferior in their adaptations to new or different environments. The only exception to this would be the chance of a random genetic mutation, which pre-disposes individuals within a population to exceed their peers in their ability to survive.

    Hope that this helps.

    Cheers,

    Fifteendaysofbliss.
     
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  7. Fifteendaysofbliss Registered Member

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    P.s. Sorry about all the spelling and grammatical errors- I have just come from a three-hour mathematics exam, and my brain has been fried!

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  8. Fifteendaysofbliss Registered Member

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    Another thought- I have forgotten what the principle is called, but sometimes species can develop the same features due to similar environmental pressures, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they are related. For example, Dolphins, porpoises and sharks all have extremely similar phenotypical features (dorsal fins, grey, leathery skin etc.), however their evoloutionary pathways diverged many millions of years ago, since dolphins and porpoises are mammals, where as sharks are fish!

    So, have no fear. If you really don't want to be related to a Neanderthal, there is still the chance that the gene which pre-disposes you to disliking brussel sprouts may simply be a common adaptation that doesn't connote common genes (although, not so many millions of years ago, we descended from the same common ancestor, anyway).

    I simply learned to like brussel sprouts after many years of my father's strange cuisine endeavors. So I don't know whether I would be related to them or not?? I would be quite happy to have inherited some Neanderthal DNA, though, to be honest with you! :-D

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    .

    Again, hope this all helps!

    Cheers.
     
  9. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Herc/Fifteen
    so if it comes down to the gene coming from a common ancestor, has the study been a waste of time?
     
  10. Fifteendaysofbliss Registered Member

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    ---
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2009
  11. Fifteendaysofbliss Registered Member

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    Hey Orlandear. What do you mean?
     
  12. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

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    I don’t understand why you would conclude that it’s been a waste of time. As you quoted in your opening post:


    That’s an interesting evolutionary discovery, not a waste of time.
     
  13. Nyr Registered Senior Member

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    Is this just specific to Brussels Sprouts, or other foods and tastes as well? Cause there are a lot of things some people like, and some don't. Do our taste buds varying reactions to different foods originate from the same evolutionary branch? Moreover, I don't think all variations in bitter taste perception can be linked to such a far branch in evolution. There have to be more recent genetic variations causing this. Sometimes it might even be an acquired trait.
     
  14. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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    To what extent could Neanderthals learn that certain plants were poisonous, and pass this knowledge on? That is, suppose I saw a bunch of my friends die after eating some bush. I would make sure that I'd teach my kids not to eat the same bush. So---is this something that is possible, or is it unreasonable to assume this?
     
  15. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    yes, it may be interesting, but why is it important? Why is bitterness evolution important?
     
  16. Idle Mind What the hell, man? Valued Senior Member

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    Bitterness is associated with toxicity in nature. Like bright colours serve as a warning, so does a bitter taste.
     
  17. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Fresh brussels sprouts taste sweet. Besides, there were no brussels sprouts back then. Neanderthals and ancient humans probably traded information about what was edible. I'm sure their knowledge extended into some strange but perfectly edible things, in spite of their instinct to dislike bitter things. I dislike blood, but the Bushmen drink it.
     
  18. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

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    It’s one of our senses!

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    Learning about our sensory abilities has always been of great value, and part of that is learning about the evolutionary development of our senses. Finding out how we sense taste/smell/touch/light/sound at the genetic, biochemical, cellular or whole-organ level (and how we acquired those abilities through evolution) tells us a lot about our physiology, and also tells us a lot about our brains which interprets the stimuli we sense. All these sensory receptors are connected to the brain, either directly or indirectly.
     
  19. Fifteendaysofbliss Registered Member

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    Well said Hercules. Thus, it is important to learn about even the smallest of details in order to understand our history, and therefore, ourselves. After all, 'history' is his-story- our story.
     
  20. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    It's called convergent evolution. If you had just the head of a kangaroo, especially the dentition, you'd think it was an artiodactyl (cattle, deer, camels, giraffes, sheep, hippopotamuses, etc.) rather than a marsupial.

    I wonder if the term "divergent evolution" is also in use. The cetaceans actually are artiodactyls, descended from primitive hippopotamuses.
    And other sensory signals serve as an invitation. Sweetness is associated with easily-digested high-energy sugar. Inviting animals to eat fruits and defecate the seeds enlarges the range of the plant and improves its survivability.

    Oddly, cats are virtually the only mammal whose taste buds lack a sweet sensor.
     
  21. Fifteendaysofbliss Registered Member

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    Thanks Fraggle Rocker. Indeed, the term slipped my mind.

    The term is, indeed in use.
     
  22. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    agreed, but we are not descended from Neanderthals. Why do they need to study if Neanderthals could taste bitter?
     
  23. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    It tells us something about our common ancestor. I don't think they were looking for evidence about this subject in particular, but it seems to have been something that came up while studying DNA.
     

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