View Full Version : Old or Young Earth?


NDS
04-15-07, 02:36 PM
Is the earth millions of years old or 6,000 years old?




Here is some food for thought on the issue dealing with the Young Earth Global Deluge Hypothesis:

Why is there no evidence of a flood in ice core series?

Ice cores from Greenland have been dated back more than 40,000 years by counting annual layers. [Johnsen et al, 1992,; Alley et al, 1993] A worldwide flood would be expected to leave a layer of sediments, noticeable changes in salinity and oxygen isotope ratios, fractures from buoyancy and thermal stresses, a hiatus in trapped air bubbles, and probably other evidence. Why doesn't such evidence show up?

How are the polar ice caps even possible?

Such a mass of water as the Flood would have provided sufficient buoyancy to float the polar caps off their beds and break them up. They wouldn't regrow quickly. In fact, the Greenland ice cap would not regrow under modern (last 10 ky) climatic conditions.

Why did the Flood not leave traces on the sea floors?

A year long flood should be recognizable in sea bottom cores by (1) an uncharacteristic amount of terrestrial detritus, (2) different grain size distributions in the sediment, (3) a shift in oxygen isotope ratios (rain has a different isotopic composition from seawater), (4) a massive extinction, and (n) other characters. Why do none of these show up?

Why is there no evidence of a flood in tree ring dating?

Tree ring records go back more than 10,000 years, with no evidence of a catastrophe during that time.

[B]How was the fossil record sorted in an order convenient for evolution?

The Young Earth Hypothesis can't explain:

-the extremely good sorting observed. Why didn't at least one dinosaur make it to the high ground with the elephants?
-the relative positions of plants and other non-motile life. (Yun, 1989, describes beautifully preserved algae from Late Precambrian sediments. Why don't any modern-looking plants appear that low in the geological column?)
why some groups of organisms, such as mollusks, are found in many geologic strata.
-why organisms (such as brachiopods) which are very similar hydrodynamically (all nearly the same size, shape, and weight) are still perfectly sorted.
-why extinct animals which lived in the same niches as present animals didn't survive as well. Why did no pterodons make it to high ground?
how coral reefs hundreds of feet thick and miles long were preserved intact with other fossils below them.
- why small organisms dominate the lower strata, whereas fluid mechanics says they would sink slower and thus end up in upper strata.
- why artifacts such as footprints and burrows are also sorted. [Crimes & Droser, 1992]
- why no human artifacts are found except in the very uppermost strata. If, at the time of the Flood, the earth was overpopulated by people with technology for shipbuilding, why were none of their tools or buildings mixed with trilobite or dinosaur fossils?
- why different parts of the same organisms are sorted together. Pollen and spores are found in association with the trunks, leaves, branches, and roots produced by the same plants [Stewart, 1983].
- why ecological information is consistent within but not between layers. Fossil pollen is one of the more important indicators of different levels of strata. Each plant has different and distinct pollen, and, by telling which plants produced the fossil pollen, it is easy to see what the climate was like in different strata. Was the pollen hydraulically sorted by the flood water so that the climatic evidence is different for each layer?

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html#fitting

SkinWalker
04-15-07, 03:11 PM
Earth > millions of years.

IceAgeCivilizations
04-15-07, 03:14 PM
Young, as the Bible says.

NDS
04-15-07, 03:16 PM
Young, as the Bible says.

Well said.

Science -----------------> :spank: <----------------- IAC

SkinWalker
04-15-07, 03:16 PM
delusion - an erroneous belief that is held in the face of evidence to the contrary.

NDS
04-15-07, 03:18 PM
The Young Earth Hypothesis - an erroneous belief that is held in the face of evidence to the contrary.

IceAgeCivilizations
04-15-07, 03:19 PM
Well at least you haven't sunk to buffoonish cartoons with emoticons, new language, Emoticonics, trademark by NDS.

original
04-15-07, 03:21 PM
2 + 2 = 5, because the Bible says so.

NDS
04-15-07, 03:22 PM
Well at least you haven't sunk to buffoonish cartoons with emoticons, new language, Emoticonics, trademark by NDS.

:bravo:

IceAgeCivilizations
04-15-07, 03:27 PM
The back-up for people who don't communicate as well with words.

NDS
04-15-07, 03:33 PM
Famous IAC quotes:

"Grrrrrr."

"Ooga booga."

"Wikimania!"

"Tee hee."

"Booga Booga."

Wow IAC, by the looks of this poll so far you must be putting forth a really convinving case for a young earth!!!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

IceAgeCivilizations
04-15-07, 03:44 PM
The topic was emoticons.

Sock puppet path
04-15-07, 03:54 PM
I think for you IAC emoticons probably work better than all those words.

IceAgeCivilizations
04-15-07, 04:08 PM
NDS seems to agree.

NDS
04-15-07, 07:42 PM
IAC, I just wanted to commend you on the great job you've done so far "defending God's word" on this site. By the poll results, it seems that you have really done a stand out job of convincing everyone of a Young Earth. God must be proud!

:bravo:

IceAgeCivilizations
04-15-07, 07:56 PM
Thanks NDS.

NDS
04-16-07, 07:11 AM
No problem, my friend. :)

Wow, IAC has presented such a great case for a Young Earth that a whole ZERO people have been persuaded by him! In fact, his arguments are so lame and illogical that he has even convinced himself that the Young Earth Hypothesis is absurd!!!

IceAgeCivilizations
04-16-07, 07:14 AM
As usually, you display no grasp of reality.

NDS
04-16-07, 07:17 AM
Sorry, I don't consider your personal "fantasy land" to be reality.

And apparently, neither does anyone else on this site!!!

wsionynw
04-16-07, 07:36 AM
As usually, you display no grasp of reality.

NDS makes a fair point IAC, not even all Christians can agree on the young earth theory, evolution, divinity of christ, etc, etc.
Hardly makes for compelling argument.

NDS
04-16-07, 07:47 AM
The Pope has already integrated evolution into the church because even he knows that denying reality is not a good idea.

IceAgeCivilizations
04-16-07, 07:49 AM
Since when does the Pope speak for all Christians? Three quarters of the Catholics don't listen to what he says anyway.

nietzschefan
04-16-07, 08:33 AM
Comon, we can't have our cake and eat it too?

I voted Millions of years, however, we know the middle east has suffered at least one major flood, when the Med, dumped into the black sea. Why do we have to discount the flood myth utterly?? Fuck! It's all or nothing with some of you guys!

NDS
04-16-07, 08:34 AM
A flood. Not a Global Deluge.

IceAgeCivilizations
04-16-07, 08:40 AM
What does the Bible say about it NDS?

NDS
04-16-07, 08:53 AM
Jesus spoke in parables. Doesn't mean they all literally happened. Who's to say God wouldn't do the same?

In any case, the Bible never says specifically that it was a Global Flood. If so point out the verse where it says this. And even if it did, I like using Saquist's approach to this question.

Saquist's approach: The OT was written FROM THE EYES OF AN OBSERVER.

Therefore, to the observer, it may have looked like a global flood, when really it wasn't.

IceAgeCivilizations
04-16-07, 08:55 AM
Is that what the Bible says about it NDS?

IceAgeCivilizations
04-16-07, 08:55 AM
Why are you so hung up on this NDS, do you believe the rest of the Bible?

NDS
04-16-07, 08:57 AM
Does the writings of Moses ever come out and specifically prophesize "the coming of the Son of God who will die for all of mankind's sins and who will be crucified, and who will be born of a virgin?"

No, it doesn't. You just assume that the animal offerings in those scriptures SYMBOLIZED the above prophesy.

So you would argue that the writings of Moses were really SYMBOLIC in nature, except when it goes against your beliefs.

NDS
04-16-07, 08:59 AM
Why are you so hung up on this NDS, do you believe the rest of the Bible?

Why are you so hung up on proving a Young Earth? I'm not the one who wrote two books on the subject, lol.

As far as the rest of the Bible, I don't really know. Jesus had good teachings, but the problem lies in the lack of evidence for his being the Son of God.

Oxygen
04-16-07, 09:09 AM
And he never claimed to be so, but the Christian world seems intent on putting words in his mouth, figuratively speaking. I think if Jesus were walking among us today, he'd be mortified at the Christian faith, especially with the super churches, the political infiltration, and the idol worship of both televangelists and the Catholic practice of praying before statues of saints.

IceAgeCivilizations
04-16-07, 09:10 AM
Jesus sees what's going on, afterall, He's God.

IceAgeCivilizations
04-16-07, 09:13 AM
Christians are to affect government policy, we are to be involved citizens, "the salt of the Earth."

NDS
04-16-07, 09:17 AM
So, IAC, if you believe in Jesus (Son of God, Redeemer, etc.) but not in the Young Earth Theory, can you still be saved?

IceAgeCivilizations
04-16-07, 09:20 AM
As I've said before, I was saved before I came to believe the plain reading of Genesis.

NDS
04-16-07, 12:05 PM
Jesus sees what's going on, afterall, He's God.

If he was God he would know when he himself will return in the second coming. But only God knows that. Jesus doesn't.

Also, the Bible states that God has given Jesus authority. Therefore, in order to be given authority, this means that a higher authority must exist (God).

spidergoat
04-16-07, 12:07 PM
It's not millions, it's billions.

NDS
04-16-07, 12:10 PM
Either way. Millions or billions. I should have just wrote X > Billions or something like that. Same difference.

mikenostic
04-16-07, 12:31 PM
Is that what the Bible says about it NDS?

Why don't YOU tell us what it says, since you seem to be the self-proclaimed, one-line posting, question-dodging, logic-free, expert on the matter?????

You wanna be a 'witness' for Christianity, throw down some references, scriptures, ANYTHING, to show that you aren't just some 13yr old that signed up on here just to antagonize shit.

I have often wondered if the bible meant 6,000 years metaphorically. Isn't the written history and civilization of humankind about 6000 years old?
Even if that's what the bible meant, it still left out any detail (as if the bible has any other scientific detail in it) in the 4+ billions of years of Earth's history.

SkinWalker
04-16-07, 12:47 PM
It's not millions, it's billions.

Millions of millions is still millions. :)

spidergoat
04-16-07, 01:30 PM
Many species are millions of years old, but the Earth is billions, that's an order of magnitude more. I think it's an important point, since this great age explains alot of things that are impossible given a young earth, or even an Earth that's several million years old.

IceAgeCivilizations
04-16-07, 01:34 PM
That's what Darwin said to the rock daters, letting them know that he needed 65 million years back to the dinosaurs, and they certainly did accomodate him.

NDS
04-16-07, 01:47 PM
Get an education and learn how radiometric dating works.

IceAgeCivilizations
04-16-07, 02:13 PM
But you admitted you're not a geologist, so please explain to me where I'm supposedly wrong.

NDS
04-16-07, 04:09 PM
But you admitted you're not a geologist, so please explain to me where I'm supposedly wrong.

Think about it a while. Maybe it'll sink in.

Wow, IAC, an entire ZERO people have been convinced by your amazing argument. Keep up the good work!!!