http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-08-03T145855Z_01_N03290309_RTRUKOC_0_US-ENERGY-IRAN-PRICES.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

I hope this happens. Consumer outrage at $10/gallon gas would force the development of alternate energy solutions. This would of course lead to a plummet in oil demand and the crumbling of Irans economy. Many here want the US out of the Middle East and here is the sure way to do it.

force the development of alternate energy solutions.
Assuming that such exist. Even research money can't change the universe's laws...

I am convinced that if the US had spent the $BILLIONs it is wasting on Iraq instead on Alternate fuels we would have some solutions.

Probably. I would certainly have thought it wiser to budget for research than war...

there are plenty of ideas for alternative solutions
most of them have been around for a long long time - even before the 1973 crunch
the reason they havent been used is that they aren't economically feasible

that's why i'm not sure throwing more money at the cause will create a way - just like there is no cure for AIDS or cancer... research has been ongoing for a long time.

i'm not even sure it won't be cheaper to have gasoline more expensive than spending billions on research (and then on implementation and transformation of entire economies)

besides, (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-08-03T105621Z_01_L03259481_RTRUKOC_0_US-ENERGY-SAUDI.xml&archived=False)


Saudi Arabia, the world's biggest crude exporter, believes oil should not be used as a weapon because it is the economic lifeline of Arab states, its foreign minister said.

Asked whether the oil weapon should be used if the conflict between Israel and Hizbollah escalates, Prince Saud al-Faisal said: "The two issues should not be mixed because oil is among the economic capabilities that countries... need to meet their obligations toward their citizens.

"If we ignore this reality and start asking that the foundations of our life (be used) and enter into reckless adventures, the first to be hurt will be our citizens and no wise government can accept this," he told a news conference.


even the fanatical Wahabbi government in KSA understands this...
The worst that iran can do is to block the Straits of Hormuz passage of oil.. but in that case it will be against the interest of all oil producing nations in the region, which might trigger military actions by those states, despite being Muslim and pro-Hizballah, against Iran.

The problem is though, whatever research happens into a new or alternative fuel will take time before it can be implemented. You can through as much money as you want into it but that doesn't necessarily mean that the implementation will be faster. All new technologies have to be mass produced before they are successful, they have teething problems etc etc... At the moment progress is being made in the private sector, we have alternative fuels etc being produced but their is no market at the moment. People rely too much on oil, and only when their is a severe shortage will we realise that we have to change.

Btw, Australia is halfway there towards your $10 a gallon

you know what, the US gasoline prices are the cheapest in the world (other than, probably, the oil-tick countries themselves).

in Europe gas is at least twice as expensive as in Canada, and Canada is more expensive than US..

so what the fuck are you complaining about?

TTC (http://www.ttc.ca) = the better way :D

gas here in belgium translates to about 8.50 a gallon, according to the gas station across the street from me.

good thing i dont own a car.

otheadp:

Could be worse! Could live in a city with high petrol prices, and catching public transport isn't much cheaper *cough*MELBOURNE*cough* :p

Sucks to live there!

ouch...

well, donkey-carts it is then! :D

Yeah just took out a donkey-cart loan from the bank... She's a beauty! I'm going to deck her out with the sickest stereo system known to man, put some awesome mags on her, hydraulic suspension, drop a V8 into it and she'll be apples. :D

exactly WHERE is the v8 going?????

hmmm...

No clue... :p

wherever it goes, im pretty sure there are animal cruelty laws regarding donkeys and v8 engines in australia.

lets HOPE that it is the cart, and not the donkey. if not, give me a pm, and ill give you some pointers for mounting engines on beasts of burden.

exactly WHERE is the v8 going?????

hmmm...

shit.. you don't wanna know!

Gas in other countries cost so much because you tax the hell out of it. I realize that some instant 'just add water' solution will not appear. But with enough Money and smart people anything can happen. Yes the alternatives are more expensive but if it was $10 a gallon then they would be cheaper. Plus if you add the BILLIONS that are being spent over our concerns in the Middle East alternative energy is far cheaper. The problem is motivation- ie profit. In the US Hybrids (which suck ass...those things are FUGLY) are selling like crazy and big trucks are just sitting on lots. That huge consumption change was brought on by only a $1.50 increase! Pump it up to $10 and Mass transet will boom. Car manufactureres will be forced to make changes. Hydrogen infrastructure will be created. Yes it will cost alot but in the long run it will be worth it. Huge reduction in pollution and the Middle East can go @%#@ itself. There are tons of problems in other countries (like Africa) that need to be addressed. Screw the Middle East. Have fun going bankrupt.

No oil consumption- No Iran, No Saudis. All Broke.

Pump it up to $10 and Mass transet will boom. Car manufactureres will be forced to make changes. Hydrogen infrastructure will be created. Yes it will cost alot but in the long run it will be worth it. Huge reduction in pollution and the Middle East can go @%#@ itself. There are tons of problems in other countries (like Africa) that need to be addressed. Screw the Middle East. Have fun going bankrupt.

No oil consumption- No Iran, No Saudis. All Broke.
No matter how expensive fuel gets, I doubt mass transit will catch on outside of big cities. We're too spread out in the US.

If oil does shoot up as you desire, the most likely scenario would be more coal and nuclear power plants. Also, we'd probably say the hell with clean air laws, burn the dirty coal. Poppa needs his air conditioning!

gas here in belgium translates to about 8.50 a gallon, according to the gas station across the street from me.

good thing i dont own a car.
Holy Crap!! $8.50?! :eek: We are bitching & screaming here in the Yankee Heartland with gasoline prices at $3.00 per gallon!

Holy Crap!! $8.50?! We are bitching & screaming here in the Yankee Heartland with gasoline prices at $3.00 per gallon!

Yes, but we use our cars more than they do driving longer distances which causes us to pay more towards our gas each month.

Not to mention everyone and their mother having their own separate vehicle, heh. Hey guys, let's all go to the party and take five separate vehicles. We're cool!

- N

Yes, but we use our cars more than they do driving longer distances which causes us to pay more towards our gas each month....True, and well illustrates the unique "suburban infrastructure" ,SI*, cheap gas has built in US. This SI and GWB’s wars are why US will collapse into chaos first when oil is $200.**
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*SI includes the SUVs, lack of locally produced food, wide spread gun ownership, etc. and also includes the things not produced such as efficient publicly transport; functional, residential high-rise central apartment residences (with few exceptions such as NYC's high-cost units for CEOs and other multi millionaires); etc.

**200 oil may come much sooner than most think, thanks to GWB's stupidity (or is it his ability to reward the oil industry?) - here is how:

The completely one sided support for Israel GWB has introduced*** is unifying the two major divisions of Islam, at least in their desire to redress the wrongs US supplied Israel is now doing. Even staunch allies like Saudi Arabia, can not long resist this growing wave of hatred for the US.

There is only way for Islamic Mid East, ME, to effectively resist the US and Israel’s destruction of Lebanon:

Cease oil shipment to the US and Israel. (The F-16 that now bomb all of Lebanon will be grounded without fuel but the US supplied 155 caliper mobile artillery will still be able to pound S. Lebanon.)

Economically, stopping all sales to companies sending tankers to US or Israel would not have been feasible only 10 years ago, but now China (and recovering Japan) can buy the entire production of ME oil. (They would need to follow the US example and create a strategic oil reserved to do this. - Such a reserve in China is more secure than mere pieces of paper (contracts they currently are buying) that give them ownership of oil in foreign lands.)

***To illustrated how much GWB has distorted the historic US / ME relationships, note that Bush the father had the logistic support of and even some troops from Syria in the first war against Saddam's Iraq. Prior US presidents, especially Clinton, were able to work for peace in the ME, but GWB is only able to make wars there and destroy the development of democracies there. (There was one in Pakistan and Lebanon prior to GWB's wars and none has been achieved. Even nations are being destroyed - Sudan etc. and Iraq will soon be split into three separate ones. Then there will be civil war in Turkey as the Kurds in the south try to join the new Kurdistan created from destroyed Iraq.) In the thread “worst President” there is no contest for the title.

The $200 oil GWB is producing and the SI created by many US presidents when combined with the "twin deficits" GWB has produced (Clinton had budget surpluses, without GWB's war costs, “reward your friends” economic policies, oil CEO government for oil industry, etc.) plus lack of local food, will be reason why US collapses into chaos of armed gangs, looking for food in suburban basements.

US collapses into chaos of armed gangs, looking for food in suburban basements.
You wish. If oil gets too expensive, we'll just switch to coal and/or nuclear. We could even go with electric cars or hydrogen using the coal and nukes to charge them up. There would be some disruption during the transition, but I would hardly expect the collapse of society.

...I would hardly expect the collapse of society.Few do before they hear the rabble at the gate, if history is any teacher.

Do you have any idea how quickly chaos can come compared to the time scale of conversion to an entirely different energy system? For that to have any chance of success, the US needed to start 20 years ago. :(

Do you have any idea how quickly chaos can come compared to the time scale of conversion to an entirely different energy system? For that to have any chance of success, the US needed to start 20 years ago. :(
When oil was still dirt cheap? That wouldn't have made sense. But as prices continue to rise, things change. Capitalism is quite dynamic. We'll make the change when we need to.

Nuclear, coal, goat piss- at this point I dont care what it is as long as the ME doesnt make any money off of it. Irans nukes are being funded by our oil consumption.

"Capitalism is quite dynamic. We'll make the change when we need to."

Like in 1929 (http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1569.html).

Like in 1929 (http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1569.html).Thanks for the depression reference. 1942-1929= 13 years to recover from a minor disruption (compared to physically transforming the entire energy base of the US to coal) in the financial markets. I could not have made my point better.

To transform the US economy from the "suburban infrastructure" it now has, built on cheap oil during the last 70 years, (with the average transport distance of your food being greater than 500 miles) into one that can be sustained on coal will take at least 35 years.

All the trains have been converted to oil or electric. The number of functional coal powered locomotives that could be returned to service from museums plus those that could be built in 5 years could not haul enough coal from the mines to power 10% of the nations coal fired generation plants and starving bands would not let them pass, if they thought there might be food on the train.

Some oil-fired power plants could be converter to natural gas in less than a year, but to keep the electric grid from total collapse, no power would be distributed to ordinary homes.

With all the guns privately held in the US, once there is too little food in the local grocery because the government is using most the available oil /gas for the army in a failing effort to keep order, and food trucks lucky enough to get "gas coupons" are being hi-jacked, etc., the decent into total chaos can take less than a month.

Surely there would be some successful efforts by US military to cease oil tankers bound for China or force loading of US bound one, etc. but the hatred of the USA in the Middle East* is becoming so intense (mainly because of the one sided "Israel is only defending itself" position of the Bush administration) that the pipe lines to the ports will be destroyed.
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*Even here in Brazil, violence is begin to target Jewish Organization and being American here, I feel less safe now. Last night the wooden doors of the Jewish community center in Campinas were set on fire and "Lebanon is the true holocaust" were spray painted on the building. Although 95% of the 20 Brazilians who Israel has recently killed in Lebanon were completely innocent victims of the US F-16 bombs** One was a 17 year old "resistance fighter" who died trying to drive the Jewish army back into Israel. There will no doubt be several more ("foreign terrorists" as Bush would call them) from Brazil to replace him as a direct result of Israel's re-occupation of Southern Lebanon. In the end, when US economy is hurt by lack of oil, Israel will learn the Biblical truth: "He, who lives by the sword, will die by the sword."

**An earlier thread, (“Israel murdered 55 people to day”), reported the names and ages of a Brazilian husband, wife and their two kids as caused by the Israeli navy shell, but that has been revised. They died while sleeping in their beds as a bomb exploded in or near the bedroom. The little girl’s blood trail indicates she was not instantly killed. As far as I know, all 19 of the innocent Brazilian victims of Israel were killed by bombs. The Brazilian terrorist (or resistance fighter, depending on your POV) was killed in action if his proud mother’s view is correct.