Before the time of Moses, in the false pagan religion of Baal Worship (sun
worship), every December the 25th was celebrated as the rebirth of the false
sun god baal. To celebrate this, the people would hang little round balls on
the trees as symbols of the sun, and they would give gifts to one another.
The pagan religion of baal worship spread into different lands, using
different names for the false gods and false goddess. Baal worship got into
the pagan roman religion of ancient rome, and some of the traditions and
feast days of the roman religion got into roman catholicism.
Christmas, which is basically named after a mass for Christ is a roman
catholic holiday, and the pagan tradition of giving gifts on Dec. 25 and
hanging balls on trees got into this holiday. - But, it is a pagan practice
and it really has nothing to do with the birth of Jesus Christ.
So, I spent a small amount of time composing a little song about the matter:

Oh Christmas Tree

Oh pagan tree, Oh pagan tree!
Keep yourself away from me!

O pagan tree, O pagan tree!
A false religion, invented thee.

O pagan tree, O pagan tree!
False Baal worship spawned thee.

O pagan tree, O pagan tree!
The birth of Christ,
Has nothing to do with thee!

O pagan tree, O pagan tree!
Tiny globes hang like a bell.
Symbols of the sun god!
That deceived men into hell.
O pagan tree, O pagan tree,
Indignation you bring to me.

I am not a song writer. If anyone else on this forum can write a better song about it, then post it here. You can use this popular abominable song to copy from.

O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree!
How are thy leaves so verdant!
O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree,
How are thy leaves so verdant!
Not only in the summertime,
But even in winter is thy prime.
O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree,
How are thy leaves so verdant!
O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree,
Much pleasure doth thou bring me!
O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree,
Much pleasure doth thou bring me!
For every year the Christmas tree,
Brings to us all both joy and glee.
O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree,
Much pleasure doth thou bring me!
O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree,
Thy candles shine out brightly!
O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree,
Thy candles shine out brightly!
Each bough doth hold its tiny light,
That makes each toy to sparkle bright.
O Christmas tree, O Christmas tree,
Thy candles shine out brightly!

http://www.biblebelievers.com/babylon/sect31.htm
online book, THE TWO BABYLONS, by Alexander Hislop
That is not my original source, but this one will do nicely.
It is rather long but it contains what I said in my post.
Hislop, an expert on ancient religions, has over 200 references in that
book.

How, then, did the Romish Church fix on December the 25th as Christmas-day?
Why, thus: Long before the fourth century, and long before the Christian era
itself, a festival was celebrated among the heathen, at that precise time of
the year, in honour of the birth of the son of the Babylonian queen of
heaven; and it may fairly be presumed that, in order to conciliate the
heathen, and to swell the number of the nominal adherents of Christianity,
the same festival was adopted by the Roman Church, giving it only the name
of Christ. This tendency on the part of Christians to meet Paganism half-way
was very early developed; and we find Tertullian, even in his day, about the
year 230, bitterly lamenting the inconsistency of the disciples of Christ in
this respect, and contrasting it with the strict fidelity of the Pagans to
their own superstition. "By us," says he, "who are strangers to Sabbaths,
and new moons, and festivals, once acceptable to God, the Saturnalia, the
feasts of January, the Brumalia, and Matronalia, are now frequented; gifts
are carried to and fro, new year's day presents are made with din, and
sports and banquets are celebrated with uproar; oh, how much more faithful
are the heathen to their religion, who take special care to adopt no
solemnity from the Christians." Upright men strive to stem the tide, but in
spite of all their efforts, the apostacy went on, till the Church, with the
exception of a small remnant, was submerged under Pagan superstition. That
Christmas was originally a Pagan festival, is beyond all doubt. The time of
the year, and the ceremonies with which it is still celebrated, prove its
origin. In Egypt, the son of Isis, the Egyptian title for the queen of
heaven, was born at this very time, "about the time of the winter solstice."
The very name by which Christmas is popularly known among
ourselves--Yule-day --proves at once its Pagan and Babylonian origin. "Yule"
is the Chaldee name for an "infant" or "little child"; * and as the 25th of
December was called by our Pagan Anglo-Saxon ancestors, "Yule-day," or the
"Child's day," and the night that preceded it, "Mother-night," long before
they came in contact with Christianity, that sufficiently proves its real
character.


Even where the sun was the favourite object of worship, as in Babylon itself
and elsewhere, at this festival he was worshipped not merely as the orb of
day, but as God incarnate. It was an essential principle of the Babylonian
system, that the Sun or Baal was the one only God. When, therefore, Tammuz
was worshipped as God incarnate, that implied also that he was an
incarnation of the Sun. In the Hindoo Mythology, which is admitted to be
essentially Babylonian, this comes out very distinctly. There, Surya, or the
sun, is represented as being incarnate, and born for the purpose of subduing
the enemies of the gods, who, without such a birth, could not have been
subdued. *


* See the Sanscrit Researches of Col. VANS KENNEDY. Col. K., a most
distinguished Sanscrit scholar, brings the Brahmins from Babylon (Ibid.). Be
it observed the very name Surya, given to the sun over all India, is
connected with this birth. Though the word had originally a different
meaning, it was evidently identified by the priests with the Chaldee "Zero,"
and made to countenance the idea of the birth of the "Sun-god." The Pracrit
name is still nearer the Scriptural name of the promised "seed." It is
"Suro." It has been seen, in a previous chapter, that in Egypt also the Sun
was represented as born of a goddess.
It was no mere astronomic festival, then, that the Pagans celebrated at the
winter solstice. That festival at Rome was called the feast of Saturn, and
the mode in which it was celebrated there, showed whence it had been
derived. The feast, as regulated by Caligula, lasted five days; * loose
reins were given to drunkenness and revelry, slaves had a temporary
emancipation, ** and used all manner of freedoms with their masters.


This was precisely the way in which, according to Berosus, the drunken
festival of the month Thebeth, answering to our December, in other words,
the festival of Bacchus, was celebrated in Babylon. "It was the custom,"
says he, "during the five days it lasted, for masters to be in subjection to
their servants, and one of them ruled the house, clothed in a purple garment
like a king." This "purple-robed" servant was called "Zoganes," the "Man of
sport and wantonness," and answered exactly to the "Lord of Misrule," that
in the dark ages, was chosen in all Popish countries to head the revels of
Christmas. The wassailling bowl of Christmas had its precise counterpart in
the "Drunken festival" of Babylon; and many of the other observances still
kept up among ourselves at Christmas came from the very same quarter. The
candles, in some parts of England, lighted on Christmas-eve, and used so
long as the festive season lasts, were equally lighted by the Pagans on the
eve of the festival of the Babylonian god, to do honour to him: for it was
one of the distinguishing peculiarities of his worship to have lighted
wax-candles on his altars. The Christmas tree, now so common among us, was
equally common in Pagan Rome and Pagan Egypt. In Egypt that tree was the
palm-tree; in Rome it was the fir; the palm-tree denoting the Pagan Messiah,
as Baal-Tamar, the fir referring to him as Baal-Berith. The mother of
Adonis, the Sun-God and great mediatorial divinity, was mystically said to
have been changed into a tree, and when in that state to have brought forth
her divine son. If the mother was a tree, the son must have been recognised
as the "Man the branch." And this entirely accounts for the putting of the
Yule Log into the fire on Christmas-eve, and the appearance of the
Christmas-tree the next morning. As Zero-Ashta, "The seed of the woman,"
which name also signified Ignigena, or "born of the fire," he has to enter
the fire on "Mother-night," that he may be born the next day out of it, as
the "Branch of God," or the Tree that brings all divine gifts to men. But
why, it may be asked, does he enter the fire under the symbol of a Log? To
understand this, it must be remembered that the divine child born at the
winter solstice was born as a new incarnation of the great god (after that
god had been cut in pieces), on purpose to revenge his death upon his
murderers. Now the great god, cut off in the midst of his power and glory,
was symbolised as a huge tree, stripped of all its branches, and cut down
almost to the ground. But the great serpent, the symbol of the life
restoring Aesculapius, twists itself around the dead stock, and lo, at its
side up sprouts a young tree--a tree of an entirely different kind, that is
destined never to be cut down by hostile power--even the palm-tree, the
well-known symbol of victory. The Christmas-tree, as has been stated, was
generally at Rome a different tree, even the fir; but the very same idea as
was implied in the palm-tree was implied in the Christmas-fir; for that
covertly symbolised the new-born God as Baal-berith, * "Lord of the
Covenant," and thus shadowed forth the perpetuity and everlasting nature of
his power, not that after having fallen before his enemies, he had risen
triumphant over them all.


* Baal-bereth, which differs only in one letter from Baal-berith, "Lord of
the Covenant," signifies "Lord of the fir-tree."
Therefore, the 25th of December, the day that was observed at Rome as the
day when the victorious god reappeared on earth, was held at the Natalis
invicti solis, "The birth-day of the unconquered Sun." Now the Yule Log is
the dead stock of Nimrod, deified as the sun-god, but cut down by his
enemies; the Christmas-tree is Nimrod redivivus--the slain god come to life
again. In the light reflected by the above statement on customs that still
linger among us, the origin of which has been lost in the midst of hoar
antiquity, let the reader look at the singular practice still kept up in the
South on Christmas-eve, of kissing under the mistletoe bough. That mistletoe
bough in the Druidic superstition, which, as we have seen, was derived from
Babylon, was a representation of the Messiah, "The man the branch." The
mistletoe was regarded as a divine branch *--a branch that came from heaven,
and grew upon a tree that sprung out of the earth.


Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

Jeremiah 10:3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

Jeremiah 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

Jeremiah 10:5 They [are] upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also [is it] in them to do good.

Jeremiah 10:6 Forasmuch as [there is] none like unto thee, O LORD; thou [art] great, and thy name [is] great in might.

Jeremiah 10:7 Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise [men] of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, [there is] none like unto thee.

Jeremiah 10:8 But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock [is] a doctrine of vanities.

Jeremiah 10:9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple [is] their clothing: they [are] all the work of cunning [men].

Jeremiah 10:10 But the LORD [is] the true God, he [is] the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

Jeremiah 10:11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, [even] they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

who in gods name would read all of that?

put it tisa way...i is lookin foreward to YULEtide NOT CHristmas.......
the TREE. really it the powerful origins of the abiding deep myth of TREE concerns trees being symbiotically related to psychedelic mushrooms....)))))))!....
For example, Gordon Wasson, andhis Russionapartner hae done a vst body of work about tis relationship between Tree and a sacred mushroom....te amanita muscaria which grows near Firs and Birch, and much mythology has grown out of this connecton which mythologis like Judaic Christian etc hve used

In the orginal Siberian myth of Birch and Fly Agaric, the tree is depicted is envisaged as a full breasted woman goddess who gives freely of her milk to all

te Tree is also understood to represent the interlation between universe, Earth and Underworld, and togther with tis it can represent te Tree-like spine, ad the Kundalini energy, depicted as a sleeping serpent at te base of tetree-spine wich, when inspired psychedelically wakes and rises up te tree spine aliving te nervous system and allowing ecstatic communion with Naature

the patriarchal interpretation ofthe 'pagan tree' demonizes its very ancient mythic significance, both Tree, Serpent, Goddess, Ever Living Ever Dying Ever Regenerating Son/Lover, and Fruit!

((MERRY YULETIDE)))

Before the time of Moses, in the false pagan religion of Baal Worship (sun
worship), every December the 25th was celebrated as the rebirth of the false
sun god baal. ....
Its funny how when its someone elses paagan god, a baal, it is a false pagan religion, but when it is your own paagan godman, you no longer consider it the false paagan religion that it is.

who in gods name would read all of that?
i second that. he could have summed it up by saying "i am anti-christian".
carefull boys the racism spammer is on the alert!

Yule is still celebrated on winter solstice (december 21.st) in Scandinavia by the asabelievers , the ASA-believers are still alive and kicking here , following the old nordic gods .......
Christmas is celebrated on dec. 24 , not 25 like in most english countries .......

Here's my question: why does what day it was make any difference as to the validity of the faith? Seriously: who cares?

"Oh, so the Son of God wasn't born on December 25th, then? Oh, <i>well</i>, then obviously Christianity is all wrong. Pack up the robes and funny hats, boys."

Seriously.

Geoff

By the by: those people who think "Winter Wonderland" and "Rockin Around the Christmas Tree" are appropriate Christmas carols should indeed be sacrificed to heathen gods on Dec 24th.

Don't even get me started on "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas". Sing the classics or die in a fiery wash of pain.

And - Merry Christmas!

Geoff

Who cares what it's called? Damn. I mean, I'm an athiest, but I still celebrate Christmas...for the stuff and the food and the family and the TV specials...ah, dem TV spech'als...

There has always only been one God, and He was the same God before the days of Christ and before the days of Moses. The fact that the Roman Catholic Church is a bunch of blasphemous, power-hungry murderers does not mean that the God of the Bible is not real and true. The RCC would have you believe that they invented and so own God...that He did not exist until they created Him, but I think it's safe to say that any rational human being would know better.

For example, I could have lived all of my life alone, stranded on a deserted island in the middle of nowhere, and without a Bible, or any other literature, or any religious organization, artifact, or whathaveyou around, and God would still communicate with me if I so desired such communication. I would be able to look around at nature and at myself and see Him and wonder about Him. I would still be able to seek Him with sincerity in my heart. And His Holy Spirit would still be able to come to me...come into me...and speak to me His eternal word and truth.

Lori,

I could have lived all of my life alone, stranded on a deserted island in the middle of nowhere, and without a Bible, or any other literature, or any religious organization, artifact, or whathaveyou around, and God would still communicate with me if I so desired such communication.Nope. You are most certainly a product of religious indoctrination. These fairy stories would not have occured to you but your fertile imagination would likely have conjured some other quite bizarre construct to keep you happy.

Cris, you don't know me, and you don't know God. You believe what you want to believe, and that has nothing to do with me, or Him, or organized religion. As a matter of fact, you just proved my point. And that is, it doesn't have anything to do with evidence, or religion, or scripture, or tradition, or emotion, or intellect or any other thing except the sincere desire of your heart. The fact is that the only reason you don't know God is because you don't want to...plain and simple.

Christmas doesn't have anything to do with religion does it? Predominantly it appears to be the time for maximum retail company profit making. Oh and an opportunity for stores to play endless moronic Christmas music - aaaarrrgghhh!

Let's move onto 2006 as quickly as possible.

Lori,

Cris, you don't know me, Well yes I do, or rather I have met many like you. You live in an unreal fantasy world of your own creation.

and you don't know God. The Christian idea of a god is simply very childish and simplistic and foolish. It doesn't exist.

.. it doesn't have anything to do with evidence, or religion, or scripture, or tradition, or emotion, or intellect or any other thing except the sincere desire of your heart. It has absoluetly everything to do with evidence - there is absolutley none. But there is tons of evidence for people who prefer to live in fantasy worlds like the one you have created for yourself.

The fact is that the only reason you don't know God is because you don't want to...plain and simple. It is not possible to know something that doesn't exist whether I want to or not.

Cris,

As far as I am concerned, and as far as God is concerned, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and you couldn't care less. The only thing you care to do is to rationalize and justify your own desire.

You have never met anyone like me.

And this is no arguement. There is nothing to debate. I would never want you to take my word for anything...to believe because of my testimony. That's just not how it works. I'm not beating you on the head with some Bible, or shoving some religion down your throat. I'm not stupid or proud enough to think for one second that I have the power to change your mind or your heart. So relax ok?

That's Ok you believe you are unique - that makes you just like everyone else.

Ah eureka! Common ground...phew! I'm done arguing with people, I hate it. I used to love it but it's gotten so old and boring. So alas, we agree that we are all unique. I find that amazing...that we agree...and that we are all unique...lol. Peace.

LOL. Not quite. It is a pun.

I am not a song writer. If anyone else on this forum can write a better song about it, then post it here.
.


Right-O...!
Hope you don't mind if I swipe that "pagan tree" bit. I kinda like it.
(Don't necessarily claim this be a "better" song, BTW...)


Oh pagan tree, Oh pagan tree...
Commemorate most naturally
Wondrous world 'round you and me
How lustrous be thy greenery
Oh pagan tree, Oh pagan tree...

Oh pagan tree, Oh pagan tree...
Festooned with glitt'ring splendor, thee
We celebrate on longest night
Anticipate Spring-time's delight
Oh pagan tree, Oh pagan tree...

Oh, pagan tree, Oh, pagan tree...
Got naught to do with Ol' JC
Cannibal cult insanity !
A Winter solstice fest' with thee
Oh pagan tree, Oh pagan tree...

Oh pagan tree, Oh pagan tree...
Three nails and two sticks you see -
Symbols used to bring misery
A better world symb'lized by thee
Oh pagan tree, Oh pagan tree...

So - have a swig of bold ice-wine
Sing praises for this world so fine
Forget this "Nazarene divine"
Heartfelt embrace to all from mine !
Oh pagan tree, Oh pagan tree...


Io, Saturnalia ! even...

;)

good!...let me av a go

Pagan Tree Oh Pagan Tree
Embrace ME With Greenery
Fill MY Being With The Scent of
THee

Around And Around We Dance
Around Around Dance Oh We Dance

Pagan Tree Pagan Tree
YOur Storys Old As It
It Can Be

Birds In Their Nests
Foxes In Their Dens
The Moon In The Sky
Sleep All Around
While We Dance Round
Thee

i second that. he could have summed it up by saying "i am anti-christian".
carefull boys the racism spammer is on the alert!


I am a Christian. A real Christian. Real Christianity is based on the teachings of the New Testament in the bible.
Roman catholicism has mixed the ancient pagan roman religion with Christianity and then tried to call this mixture christian; it is not.
[No christmas tree in the new testament. no pope in the new testament either. Roman pontiff comes from the old pagan roman religion.]
Actually Roman catholicism is mostly pagan with a false Christian front.

Here is a roman catholic cardinal describing catholicism:
Cardinal Newman admits in his book that; the "temples,
incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, Holidays, and
seasons of devotion, processions, blessings of the fields,
sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests, munks and nuns),
images, and statues... are all of PAGAN ORIGIN." The Development of the Christian Religion Cardinal Newman
p.359
Real Christianity don't have the paganism.
Actually throughout the old testament God brought punishment on Israel everytime they worshipped the false pagan gods of the middle east.

Its funny how when its someone elses paagan god, a baal, it is a false pagan religion, but when it is your own paagan godman, you no longer consider it the false paagan religion that it is.

Real Christianity is not pagan. Christianity is the true religion. There is one God and He accepts one religion; His. Real Christianity can be found in the King James version New Testament. (There are fake bibles on the market that have the words changed.) The Word of God, who also is God, became a man in the form of Jesus Christ. The purpose was to offer His life as an atonement for sin, (the wages of sin is death) and to teach us the will of God the Father. Because of what He did, men can be forgiven of sin and enter heaven.
Pagan applies to the religions that developed from the babylonian baal worship or sun worship.
When God scattered the people from the tower of babel by confusing their languages, they carried the same pagan babylonian baal worship into different lands, using different names for the gods and godesses.

who in gods name would read all of that?


I deleted some parts that don't apply to what I said.

There is one God and He accepts one religion;
Display proof. If you cannot display proof, your statement falls flat on it's face and becomes simple ramblings. Without testable evidence, your 'god' and 'religion' is not even a hypothesis.

Real Christianity is not pagan. Christianity is the true religion. There is one God and He accepts one religion; His. Real Christianity can be found in the King James version New Testament. (There are fake bibles on the market that have the words changed.) The Word of God, who also is God, became a man in the form of Jesus Christ. The purpose was to offer His life as an atonement for sin, (the wages of sin is death) and to teach us the will of God the Father. Because of what He did, men can be forgiven of sin and enter heaven.
Pagan applies to the religions that developed from the babylonian baal worship or sun worship.
When God scattered the people from the tower of babel by confusing their languages, they carried the same pagan babylonian baal worship into different lands, using different names for the gods and godesses.


you're dispaying your biblical ignorance...

as the tower of babel fable was said to have occured before
the Egyptian and Babylonian empires.
The myth of the god child and of the death and ressurection
are also taken from the older religions.


justfuckinggoogleit.com

False pagan gods? Are you anti pagan?

It is not possible to know something that doesn't exist whether I want to or not.

Before my first post, did I exist? You wouldn't know unless you wanted to and looked in the right places. I understand your scientific explanation of the non-existence of a god. And, I understand that all behavior has or can be classified with like behavior, and labeled a disorder or abnormality. Most people on Earth believe in a god, and you do not, and you are telling most people that they are the ones who are abnormal? There are those who use and abuse religion, but there are those who truly experience God. We know he exists, and you label our experiences with psychological classifications. You don't know anything exists without observing it, so it is possible to know something that doesn't exist to you...if you observe it, like with me on this forum.

I am a Christian. A real Christian. Real Christianity is based on the teachings of the New Testament in the bible.
Roman catholicism has mixed the ancient pagan roman religion with Christianity and then tried to call this mixture christian; it is not.
[No christmas tree in the new testament. no pope in the new testament either. Roman pontiff comes from the old pagan roman religion.]
Actually Roman catholicism is mostly pagan with a false Christian front.

Here is a roman catholic cardinal describing catholicism:
Cardinal Newman admits in his book that; the "temples,
incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, Holidays, and
seasons of devotion, processions, blessings of the fields,
sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests, munks and nuns),
images, and statues... are all of PAGAN ORIGIN." The Development of the Christian Religion Cardinal Newman
p.359
Real Christianity don't have the paganism.
Actually throughout the old testament God brought punishment on Israel everytime they worshipped the false pagan gods of the middle east.

There is a ton of evidence that suggests Catholicism is a world religion, the one that will be the one-world religion in Revelations. I used to be Catholic, so I know a lot about their traditions. I was a devout Catholic for the first 19 years of my life and never touched an actual Bible. Catholics do not need a Bible, except at home to have in case of emergency. The scriptures are reprinted in a periodical for the church. That means, Catholicism is the potential to deceive if in the wrong hands.

But, there is only one truth and it can be found in Catholicism enough to be saved.

Hey, the Sun God is not false, everyone can see Him every day, if it's not cloudy.

Real Christianity is not pagan. Christianity is the true religion. There is one God and He accepts one religion; His. Real Christianity can be found in the King James version New Testament. (There are fake bibles on the market that have the words changed.) The Word of God, who also is God, became a man in the form of Jesus Christ. The purpose was to offer His life as an atonement for sin, (the wages of sin is death) and to teach us the will of God the Father. Because of what He did, men can be forgiven of sin and enter heaven.
Pagan applies to the religions that developed from the babylonian baal worship or sun worship.
When God scattered the people from the tower of babel by confusing their languages, they carried the same pagan babylonian baal worship into different lands, using different names for the gods and godesses.
*************
M*W: There is no such thing as "real christianity." What YOU call christianity is a pagan religion based on earlier man-made dying demigod savior myths. The key word here is "myths."

No bible is correct. They've all been written in languages that could not be translated correctly. There is no "word of god," only words of men who were infalliable. There is no savior and no salvation, even though some 25 times before the fictional character of "Jesus" was created, there were earlier dying demigod saviors in the world, but no one was actually "saved." They all had virgin mothers who were impregnated by some elusive unseen being, and they were all born to save the world, but none did.

Jesus was fictional. He didn't exist anymore than did Zeus, Mithras, Ba'al, Osiris, or maybe even Abraham, Moses David and Solomon, as their legends are also suspect.

Paganism does not derive from Babylonian Ba'al worship. The title "Ba'al" means "husband," nothing more. True paganism comes from nature.

If there were a god, there wouldn't be a need for religion. No god created a religion. All religion is man-made. If there were a god, we'd all know it. It would be obvious to each and every human being on Earth. There'd be no question and no speculation. All the speculation and debates that go on and on prove there is no god. That's how religions thrive. They're all searching for a god that isn't there.

You've been around sciforums for some time now. It amazes me how you people are so naive. You come to a scientific forum to promote your religious fantasy, knowing full well that there are people here who know you're a babbling idiot! Take responsibility for your own life. You are all you've got! Quit relying on a fantasy to take care of you after death, and try living your life more fully now. Listen before you speak. Read and try to comprehend before you write. As I see it, you're not searching. You believe you have found the truth. You haven't. Not even a clue. I do believe that if you're going to find the truth, you will find it here. Read more. Post less. You have nothing to offer that we don't already know enough about.

Have you ever asked yourself why atheists don't believe in the same thing you believe in? Start questioning the atheists on this forum. You might learn something.

M*W, you are such a troll. :cool: You don't allow anyone to have an opinion other than your own. Because of this, your arguments are often full of fallacies. :p

*************
M*W: There is no such thing as "real christianity." What YOU call christianity is a pagan religion based on earlier man-made dying demigod savior myths. The key word here is "myths."

No bible is correct. They've all been written in languages that could not be translated correctly. There is no "word of god," only words of men who were infalliable. There is no savior and no salvation, even though some 25 times before the fictional character of "Jesus" was created, there were earlier dying demigod saviors in the world, but no one was actually "saved." They all had virgin mothers who were impregnated by some elusive unseen being, and they were all born to save the world, but none did.

Jesus was fictional. He didn't exist anymore than did Zeus, Mithras, Ba'al, Osiris, or maybe even Abraham, Moses David and Solomon, as their legends are also suspect.

Paganism does not derive from Babylonian Ba'al worship. The title "Ba'al" means "husband," nothing more. True paganism comes from nature.

If there were a god, there wouldn't be a need for religion. No god created a religion. All religion is man-made. If there were a god, we'd all know it. It would be obvious to each and every human being on Earth. There'd be no question and no speculation. All the speculation and debates that go on and on prove there is no god. That's how religions thrive. They're all searching for a god that isn't there.

You've been around sciforums for some time now. It amazes me how you people are so naive. You come to a scientific forum to promote your religious fantasy, knowing full well that there are people here who know you're a babbling idiot! Take responsibility for your own life. You are all you've got! Quit relying on a fantasy to take care of you after death, and try living your life more fully now. Listen before you speak. Read and try to comprehend before you write. As I see it, you're not searching. You believe you have found the truth. You haven't. Not even a clue. I do believe that if you're going to find the truth, you will find it here. Read more. Post less. You have nothing to offer that we don't already know enough about.

Have you ever asked yourself why atheists don't believe in the same thing you believe in? Start questioning the atheists on this forum. You might learn something.

Why do you have such a problem letting people believe as they wish. You believe in nothing. Go ahead - believe. You think you know the truth!?!?! What a joke you are!!! Please shut your mouth. You should talk about what you believe and that's nothing! What the gosh darn heck would someone who believes in a supreme being question an atheists about? The quickest road to hell? You make yourself some big ass authority on truth yet you have no idea who you are. What a fool you are. Go ahead believe in your test tubes and over-the-counter meds. Be happy.

M*W, you are such a troll. :cool: You don't allow anyone to have an opinion other than your own. Because of this, your arguments are often full of fallacies. :p
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M*W: How am I stopping anyone from having their own opinion? I have no control over anyone on this forum! You idiots are free to speak for your miserable selves. When I start my own forum, I'll keep people like you under control. Until then, I have just as much right to voice my opinions as you do.

M*W, you are such a troll. You don't allow anyone to have an opinion other than your own. Because of this, your arguments are often full of fallacies. if you are going to make silly statements like this, show evidence.
ah I understand, you cant show any evidence your religious, supplying evidence is just not the religious, way is it.

and M*W right you idiots are allowed to speak freely, hence why your allowed to say such stupid things.

Why do you have such a problem letting people believe as they wish. You believe in nothing. Go ahead - believe. You think you know the truth!?!?! What a joke you are!!! Please shut your mouth. You should talk about what you believe and that's nothing! What the gosh darn heck would someone who believes in a supreme being question an atheists about?The quickest road to hell? You make yourself some big ass authority on truth yet you have no idea who you are. What a fool you are. Go ahead believe in your test tubes and over-the-counter meds. Be happy.
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M*W: I have no control over people believing what they want to believe. You give me power that I didn't even know I had! Wow, I've got all this power now and I'm gonna use it against you! LOL

I believe I know the truth, and you believe you know the truth. If what you believe IS the truth, why are you so defensive? Doesn't your truth include an invisible supernatural god? If you put your faith in this god, why are you afraid of me? If your god was really god, don't you think he would have smote me by now? What does it matter to you what I believe? You say I believe in nothing. You're wrong. I believe in a lot of things, but god is not one of them. I don't worry about hell, because it doesn't exist either. The whole idea of hell was to put the fear of death in you. Obviously, it did.

You say that I'm "some big ass authority." Well, I will not deny the "big ass" part. And, yes, I am an authority of many things. One is that there is no god. There are at least three aspects of god-belief. Either you believe in god, or you don't, or you're not sure. I don't. It took me most of my adult life to come to this conclusion, so it was not an overnight whim. No one else ever made me believe that there is no god. I came to this realization entirely on my own. That's the only way it can happen. Nothing I say can change a person's god-belief. The only thing I hope to accomplish is to incite readers to reach beyond their comfort level. It's not for me, it's for them. I'm already happy.