Well Med Woman, I guess Julius Caesar was actually the Sun, because you say that Jesus was the Sun, and now you say that Jesus seems to have been Julius Caesar, so is that how you read this deal?

Well Med Woman, I guess Julius Caesar was actually the Sun, because you say that Jesus was the Sun, and now you say that Jesus seems to have been Julius Caesar, so is that how you read this deal?

*************
M*W: The Caesars believed they were the embodiment of the Sun God. That's what gave them Emperor status. Jesus simply copied the Roman Emperors (or at least his spin doctors did). Even down to the first French Kings, the Louis's, they believed they were descended from the Sun and were Sun Gods. That's common history. Why is it that you can't read a history book and learn for yourself what the sun worshippers believed?

Oh, so the Jews had their Sun god Jesus, and the Romans had their Sun god Julius Caesar, so is that why the Romans killed Jesus, because He was the wrong Sun god? This is getting rich, tell us more Med Woman.

Oh, so the Jews had their Sun god Jesus, and the Romans had their Sun god Julius Caesar, so is that why the Romans killed Jesus, because He was the wrong Sun god? This is getting rich, tell us more Med Woman.

*************
M*W: It's "getting rich" because you don't understand the very inkling of history. I realize it's over your pin head. No one killed your Jesus, because your Jesus didn't exist!

There are many allusions to the history of "sun gods" in mythology, even those that include your dying demigod savior.

But, yes, the Jews had their sun god (Sol-O-Mon; David, Mo-ses, Je-zeus, etc.).

The Romans had their "sun gods," the Caesars on down to the Popal lineage, had theirs. That's what the whole "divine rights of kings" was based on.

Whatever history recounts, you deny because you are afraid to believe something that is not written nor believed by the likes of your kind. It's time to wake-up and smell the coffee, IAC, because you are lost... totally lost... in your own defecation.

Ok then, Aramaic, the point remains the same, over 800 inscriptions with Jesus, Joseph, and Mary, in Aramaic, you still lose, Med Woman.

*************
M*W: This isn't a contest of who's winning or losing. If it were, you wouldn't have made the prelims.

"The Christians have had morals through threats." Huh?

An atheist doesn't believe in gods, hell, eternal punishment, yada yada...

As such when we do 'good' we're doing it for our own sake or the sake of others. When you do good it's because you're being watched. Do bad and burn. Figure it out.

You don't get it, when you're born again, you still do bad, just less.

A wounded animal will always lash out and attack a percieved threat to its existence.
If this were "proven", which is pretty much impossible, I'd expect a drastic rise in Christian Fundamentalist Terrorism.
Most of them, however, would just ignore and deny it - it's easier that way. It works with the rest of reason.

You don't get it, when you're born again, you still do bad, just less.

*************
M*W: That doesn't make any sense. Why bother? People should be good according to their own consciousness, and not because they believe they have a foot in heaven's door.

True, and it's better to have a foot in heaven's door than not, plus, you really aren't doing any good for God's plan until you become born again, right Med Woman?

So Hindus are all burning in hell, right Ice?

Not those who have acknowledged the Creator in light of the sins they know they have committed and are repentent of before that Creator.

Forgive me here but... you are bashing the beliefs of people. That is what i worry about, not the church or organization, but the person who is possibley going to have their faith shattered. Am a little scared by your glee at someone elses pain??!

How would you feel if someone came up and shattered your belief system? I think the discovery is intreging, but I am not interested in changing anyones belief system. They are where they are because that is where they need to be.

when you're born again, you still do bad, just less.

"Just less" then what/who?

and it's better to have a foot in heaven's door than not

Says who? What if you're wrong? What if heaven turns out to be the most boring place in the universe, (no sex drink, fun)? What would you do then, renounce your "faith" in gods and hope you get to leave?

you really aren't doing any good for God's plan until you become born again

Man can upset gods plan? Didn't think so. You're talking horse manure.


--------

They are where they are because that is where they need to be.

And by that reasoning the people here "bashing" other people's beliefs do so because that is what they need to do/where they need to be. Who are you to have problem with that? Of course having said that you're only bashing the bashers because that's what you need to do/where you need to be and so the cycle continues forever and ever. What a waste of time that was.

No worries here ladyhawk, how 'bout you?

I have my own belief system, and I am comfortable enough in it to let others have theirs. Am always saddened by the need to "save" others with fear. Thanks Ice

I believe it was Finney who held crowds spellbound as he described that they were as if hanging at the end of a string over an inferno, and that they could easily be pulled away. Thousands accepted Christ.

I believe it was Finney who held crowds spellbound as he described that they were as if hanging at the end of a string over an inferno, and that they could easily be pulled away. Thousands accepted Christ.
And you think this was a good thing?

To accept Christ is a good thing, and you think it's a bad thing?

Suppose the Bible is true, then wouldn't it be a good thing to accept Christ?

Forgive me here but... you are bashing the beliefs of people. That is what i worry about, not the church or organization, but the person who is possibley going to have their faith shattered. Am a little scared by your glee at someone elses pain??!

How would you feel if someone came up and shattered your belief system? I think the discovery is intreging, but I am not interested in changing anyones belief system. They are where they are because that is where they need to be.
I don't think "bashing" is the right word. "enlightening" might be better. You see, faith, being a synonym for willful stupidity, needs to be shattered. Or if you prefer, crushed, eliminated, driven out, etc.

If peoples "belief systems" foster selfrighteous behavior designed to frighten people into accepting thier version of the truth (faith, remember? No need for verification or evidence or reason) then they absolutely need to be shattered by any conscientious human being with a shred of integrity. How completely irresponsible is it to allow people to flounder in the mire of superstition that breeds violent seperatist cult behavior?

To accept Christ is a good thing, and you think it's a bad thing?
Of course. See above post.

Suppose the Bible is true, then wouldn't it be a good thing to accept Christ?
If the bible were true, sure! Suppose the BG is true? Suppose the quran is true? Suppose the viking sagas are true? Suppose the Ghostbusters are true and Gozor the Destructor, Gozor the Gozerian is true?

Do you "accept" all of them? And the hundreds of others that claim to be "true"?

Telling people that their ancestors were primordial mucks isn't too kind, and from that, people learn to use moral relativism, which breeds anarchy.

Telling people that their ancestors were primordial mucks isn't too kind, and from that, people learn to use moral relativism, which breeds anarchy.
No. Telling the people the truth is not unkind. And people do not modify their moral behavior based on abstract findings of science. That is a myth and a tactic used by theists to be able to say "look how bad evolution is! It says amorality is ok!!!"

Bullshit.

The fact is that most people have no clue why they have the moral stances they do.

Huh?

I don't think "bashing" is the right word. "enlightening" might be better. You see, faith, being a synonym for willful stupidity, needs to be shattered. Or if you prefer, crushed, eliminated, driven out, etc.

If peoples "belief systems" foster selfrighteous behavior designed to frighten people into accepting thier version of the truth (faith, remember? No need for verification or evidence or reason) then they absolutely need to be shattered by any conscientious human being with a shred of integrity. How completely irresponsible is it to allow people to flounder in the mire of superstition that breeds violent seperatist cult behavior?

Your "faith" in no god, is equally biased, and you are justifying your enlightenment of the population to your version of the truth. I believe in a god, not sure how to define it though. My problem is not with the belief in a god, but the belief in a religion. That one religion could "own" rights to god and dam the rest of "gods creation". In my mind, if "god" gave us the ability to think, he expected us to use it.

I mean think about it, you wouldn't expect a baby to understand algebra, do why expect superstious people to understand anything other than the rituals of their church? Let people learn what and when they are ready, attacking their beliefs will not lead to their enlightenment.

Wha?

The "new birth" is a wonderful thing.

Your "faith" in no god, is equally biased, and you are justifying your enlightenment of the population to your version of the truth.
Please, please, please understand that I, and my fellow atheists do not have "faith" that there is no god. We simply do not believe in any god so far presented based on a total lack of compelling evidence. See? Can you please not be as pedestrian as the rest of the theists here seem to be?

I believe in a god, not sure how to define it though. My problem is not with the belief in a god, but the belief in a religion. That one religion could "own" rights to god and dam the rest of "gods creation". In my mind, if "god" gave us the ability to think, he expected us to use it.
Fair enough.

I mean think about it, you wouldn't expect a baby to understand algebra, do why expect superstious people to understand anything other than the rituals of their church? Let people learn what and when they are ready, attacking their beliefs will not lead to their enlightenment.
I partially agree. However, making it publicly known that there is an alternative out there (atheism) and that it's not the evil, amoral construct that it's made out to be is just good advertising. We've been crappy at our own PR so far.

The "new birth" is a wonderful thing.
Robot.

Bond slave is more like it.

Bond slave is more like it.
I agree. You are indentured to your own ignorance.

But I had an experience, so it's different than what you know.

But I had an experience, so it's different than what you know.
Sure. So? A personal experience is no reason to abandon reason in order to explain or justify it.

"Reason to Abandon Reason," that would be a good title for a C & W song.

superluminal's goddess is awesome.

*************
M*W: The Caesars believed they were the embodiment of the Sun God. That's what gave them Emperor status. Jesus simply copied the Roman Emperors (or at least his spin doctors did). Even down to the first French Kings, the Louis's, they believed they were descended from the Sun and were Sun Gods. That's common history. Why is it that you can't read a history book and learn for yourself what the sun worshippers believed?

I thought Sol invictus didn't come in until much later - post 300 AD. How could Jesus have copied it?

Good luck GeoffP, you realize you're dealing with a "cave mother" there?

But, yes, the Jews had their sun god (Sol-O-Mon; David, Mo-ses, Je-zeus, etc.).



wrong.

sun in hebrew: שמש
solomon in hebrew: שלמה המלך
moses in hebrew: שם פרטי לזכר; שם משפחה; אן מרי
jesus in hebrew: הנוצרי

NONE of these words have anything to do with the sun.

at all.

Med Woman will now say that the Yahweh loving Jews changed the Sun god version of the Old Testament, but she may not, now that I have presented that lame potential rap.

Med Woman will now say that the Yahweh loving Jews changed the Sun god version of the Old Testament, but she may not, now that I have presented that lame potential rap.

i really dont care...im just tired of these people disparaging my belief system without knowing what they are talking about.

NONE of these words have anything to do with the sun.

I've always found it strange how people are unable to get past their own language in these things.

The same thing occurs when speaking of the Son of God. Connecting it to the Sun of God...

Come on, People. This is English...

Of course "sol" is Latin, but still now ancient hebrew.

I've always found it strange how people are unable to get past their own language in these things.

The same thing occurs when speaking of the Son of God. Connecting it to the Sun of God...

Come on, People. This is English...

Of course "sol" is Latin, but still now ancient hebrew.

you are seriously the only person beside myself that i have seen question this.

haha...its really that sort of thing that makes me wary of moving back to america.....being forced to deal with this kind of thought on a daily basis, by people that speak, read, and write only one language...

its ridiculous, haughty, and above all, demeaning to the rest of humanity.

So Devil wants all the world to learn Hebrew?

Don't forget, Devil, I have lampooned Med Woman's strange hypothesis from post one, as have others, don't think only Hebrew speakers can smell a real stinker, so relax on America, we're a great country, no wonder you're thinking about moving here, as do many of the other people of the world.

People would rather move to America than anywhere else, right?

So Devil wants all the world to learn Hebrew?

yes.
however, i understand that it is too much to ask of humanity to even stop killing one another, let alone dedicate years to studying a common language.

i want people to know what they are talking about before they start spouting crack theories. she uses language to justify her position.

the wrong language entirely.

Don't forget, Devil, I have lampooned Med Woman's strange hypothesis from post one, as have others, don't think only Hebrew speakers can smell a real stinker, so relax on America, we're a great country, no wonder you're thinking about moving here, as do many of the other people of the world.

People would rather move to America than anywhere else, right?

haha.
im american.
i moved AWAY because of the small minded bumpkins that you run into on every streetcorner.

So Devil, how could Orthodox Jewish rabbis be so wrong in saying the Earth and Universe are about 5,800 years old?

So Devil, how could Orthodox Jewish rabbis be so wrong in saying the Earth and Universe are about 5,800 years old?

:)
im not conducting a seminar here. if you want further info, send me a pm.

So Devil wants all the world to learn Hebrew?

They should if they wish to seek connections among words written in ancient hebrew.

Greek and aramaic would also be languages to learn for any true biblical scholar.

Or, you could just go ahead and read the english bible with Strong's words (or whatever the hell they are.) Doesn't show much committment to a pursuit of something that seems to occupy so much of one's time though. Medicine woman (as well as others) spend practically their entire lives obsessing over religion. And they have no basis for discussion because they have only translatations to look at. And, that's fine, as long as they don't say stupid shit about the Sun of God or whatever. Or if they do, expect to get shot down.

also...im not even close to orthodox.

They should if they wish to seek connections among words written in ancient hebrew.

Greek and aramaic would also be languages to learn for any true biblical scholar.

Or, you could just go ahead and read the english bible with Strong's words (or whatever the hell they are.) Doesn't show much committment to a pursuit of something that seems to occupy so much of one's time though. Medicine woman (as well as others) spend practically their entire lives obsessing over religion. And they have no basis for discussion because they have only translatations to look at. And, that's fine, as long as they don't say stupid shit about the Sun of God or whatever. Or if they do, expect to get shot down.

exactly.

I didn't ask you if you were even close to Orthodox, but the Orthodox do study alot, and they say the Earth and Universe are about 5,800 years old, so you can try to sweep that under the rug, but it won't happen.

I didn't ask you if you were even close to Orthodox, but the Orthodox do study alot, and they say the Earth and Universe are about 5,800 years old, so you can try to sweep that under the rug, but it won't happen.

and i told you im not going to discuss orthodox religion here.
if you want more information on the subject, send me a pm.
no need for you to be rude.

I thought Sol invictus didn't come in until much later - post 300 AD. How could Jesus have copied it?

*************
M*W: You are correct. Jesus didn't actually do anything himself. The answer here lies with his 'spin doctors.' Constantine was associated with 'Sol Invictus,' as were all the caesars associated with the sun-god. Maybe I didn't make that quite clear.

'Spin doctors'? First century politics were trickier than I thought.

I didn't know all the emperors were associated with the sun god; I'll have to look that up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suryavanshi


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Dynasty

The pharoahs had everybody believe they were sons of the Sun, though I doubt that anybody really bought it, and some Greeks and Romans, and Sumerians, and Ramans, Dravidians, and pre-Incans, among others, also did this gig, and some (or one) would say that Jesus tried the same deal, but he seems to have had a different rap than that, wouldn't you say?