View Full Version : Nuts & Seeds


Orleander
02-16-08, 09:01 PM
what is the difference?

My husband eats alot of peanuts (which I know aren't really nuts) and sunflower seeds. I like cashew, pistashio, and macadamia nuts. But are these nuts or seeds?

S.A.M.
02-16-08, 09:32 PM
A seed comes from a fruit and can be separated. A nut, officially is a compound ovary, both seed and fruit and cannot be separated.

More:


A nut is "the
dry, one-seeded fruit of any of various trees or bushes, consisting of a
kernel, often edible, in a hard and woody or tough and leathery shell more
or less separable from the seed itself: walnuts, pecans, chestnuts, acorns,
etc. are all nuts. 2. the kernel or meat of such a fruit. 3. loosely, any
hard-shelled fruit that will keep more or less indefinitely; peanuts,
almonds, and cashews are also called nuts."

A seed is defined as "the part of a flowering plant that contains the
embryo and will develop into a new plant if sown; a fertilized and mature
ovule."

It seems a nut is really a fruit which technically means it contains the
seeds of the plant that produces it. Perhaps we can say all nuts are seeds
but not all seeds are nuts.

kmguru
02-16-08, 10:26 PM
With that definition, Cashew Nut is really a seed since the fruit part is separate....Folk lore in India is that Cashew improves memory.

Asguard
02-16-08, 10:28 PM
kmguru, there are lots of things miss-labled

For instance. tomatoes, cucubers, capicums are all fruits
Egg plant is a berry

kmguru
02-16-08, 11:06 PM
Asguard, a lot of people eat Cashews but may not know where it comes from.....

Asguard
02-16-08, 11:14 PM
Sorry i should have wrote more than that on my replie (my partner was trying to get me to do something)

My point was that i think food labling is more related to historical and folk refernces as well as what we use them for as a scientific interpritation of what something is.

Take bannan's and eggplants. They are both berries but because they are bigger than general berry a bannana gets labled a fruit and because eggplants are a savory plant they are labled as veg.

The same goes for tomatoes

Billy T
02-17-08, 05:16 AM
...For instance. tomatoes, cucubers, capicums are all fruits
Egg plant is a berry
SAM in Post 2 defined seed and nut. What makes egg plant a "berry" and what is def. of fruit?

Before moving to Brazil I had no idea that the cashew is the single Cashew shaped (curved) appendage sticking off the center of one end of a colorfull softer body which is usually bright red but may be yellow and is much larger - two or three times the size of a Plum tommato and slightly smaller than a bell peper. That body is not much good (MHO) to eat, but you can. It is crushed and pressed for the juice - which is OK (new, and strange to me) but many like it and a quite succesful commercial product in Brazil. (Every grocery store has bottles of it.)

One of the things I enjoy most about Brazil is that there are several times more different types of fruits and vegitables, than in the USA, which are cheaper (about 50%) and most are available 12 months / year.

My now Brazilian wife (we just lived together for first 14 years) did not know that peannuts grow under the ground; So we both learned from each other. I do not know the def. of "fruit" or "berry." From SAM's post 2 def, it would seem to me that the peanut is a nut (although most have two complete seeds, even a tiny plant between the two halves, inside the a common outter shell, some do have only one and some three.)

I know the "experts" do not consider it to be a nut, but why not? It seems to nearly satisfy SAM's definition and exactly do so for the "one nut in the shell" cases).

Asguard
02-17-08, 05:24 AM
Berry



a type of fruit with seeds contained in or about the pulp or flesh

Viewed 17/02/08 at 21:52 (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4ADBF_enAU257AU258&defl=en&q=define:berry&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title)


Fruit



The term fruit has different meanings depending on context. In botany, a fruit is the ripened ovary--together with seeds--of a flowering plant. In many species, the fruit incorporates the ripened ovary and surrounding tissues. Fruits are the means by which flowering plants disseminate seeds. ...

Viewed 17/02/08 at 21:52 (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4ADBF_enAU257AU258&q=define%3Afruit&meta=)

Billy T
02-17-08, 05:34 AM
... tomatoes, cucubers, capicums are all fruits
Egg plant is a berryIN view of the def you just posted why do you place only egg plant (and not, for example, cucuber) as "berry"? They are both fruits with essentially identical internal distributions of many small seeds, mainly along a central axis.

S.A.M.
02-17-08, 06:57 AM
Cucumber grows on a vine, its a gourd. :p

Billy T
02-17-08, 07:49 AM
Cucumber grows on a vine, its a gourd. :p

So a fruit that grows on a vine is a "gourd"? Are watermellons, cantilopes etc gourds?

In Brazil, one of the cheapest fruits, called Chu Chu grows on a vine. It is green and "pair shaped" but a little bigger, mainly water also. One of my wife's daughters says: "Chu Chu is the fourth state of water." It has shallow groves in the skin and sometimes very small stiff hairs on it, almost "microthorns." I do not know the name in English. Do you have chu chu in India?

They have and sell some enormous gourds in Brazil - yellow / orange and very firm insides, with tan to light orange outside that often has slightly green stripes. I do not know the name in any language. No one buys the whole thing. - it is cut up into chuncks of a killo or two. I have seen them uncut - I would guess 40 kilos (100 pounds) was typical. It keeps well as the "flesh" is firm. tastes good too.

What is the difference (if any) between a gourd and a squash?

S.A.M.
02-17-08, 07:53 AM
Grapes grow on vines too, but they are not gourds :p

I'd need more info than the name chu-chu. Could you post a picture?

Billy T
02-17-08, 08:04 AM
Grapes grow on vines too, but they are not gourds :p

I'd need more info than the name chu-chu. Could you post a picture?I do not know why, but I never can up link a photo etc. I looked in dictionary to find the english name. It is chayote. (Sechium edule).

S.A.M.
02-17-08, 08:11 AM
What is the difference (if any) between a gourd and a squash?

A gourd is a squash. They are members of the Cucurbitae family but gourds come under the genus Lagenaria. The squash (genus Cucurbita) consists of four species which do not naturally hybridize (ie cross breed).

Billy T
02-17-08, 08:13 AM
Grapes grow on vines too, but they are not gourds :p...I am begining to suspect there is not regularity to all these names - just tradition. If there is, it would be nice to see a "family tree" with the categories as sub branches.

Orleander
02-17-08, 09:13 AM
With that definition, Cashew Nut is really a seed since the fruit part is separate....Folk lore in India is that Cashew improves memory.

I always wondered about cashews. They don't grow in a shell do they? What about Macadamias?

cosmictraveler
02-17-08, 09:15 AM
I would think that Orleander is a "nut" and that her husband is a seed. :p

S.A.M.
02-17-08, 09:16 AM
I always wondered about cashews. They don't grow in a shell do they? What about Macadamias?

Cashews most definitely have a shell. Haven't you ever seen a cashew fruit? :)

http://diary.00ff00.com/wp-content/photos/cashew-fruit.jpg

The fruit has a strange acerbic taste (like starfruit), but tastes great after it is fully ripened with some salt and chili powder.

Fraggle Rocker
02-17-08, 09:20 AM
what is the difference?Since this is a science board we'll use scientific definitions. The definitions used by cooks are not the same and are not even always consistent. A seed is the reproductive tissue grown by angiosperms (flowering plants), which was the evolutionary advance that allowed them to become the dominant type of plant on earth. A nut is one type of seed, which Sam has already described.
My husband eats alot of peanuts (which I know aren't really nuts) and sunflower seeds. I like cashew, pistashio, and macadamia nuts. But are these nuts or seeds?I think Sam or someone else has also answered this question.

Peanuts are legumes (beans). From a nutritional standpoint the main difference between a nut and a bean is that nuts can generally be eaten raw and beans generally cannot. Nuts were a staple in the early Paleolithic diet before cooking was invented. Almonds are also not nuts. The almond tree is a species of Prunus, the genus that also includes the cherry, apricot, peach, plum, nectarine, etc. Note that an almond in the shell looks very much like a peach pit, and note that if you crack open a peach pit there is a seed inside that could be mistaken for an almond but is bitter and poisonous to humans.
So a fruit that grows on a vine is a "gourd"? Are watermelons, canteloupes etc gourds? What is the difference (if any) between a gourd and a squash?The cucumber family, with seven genera, is one of the most wildly successful families of angiosperms. One of its genera is the begonias, which with 1,500 species is one of the ten largest genera of angiosperms.

Gourds are one genus of plants in the cucumber family. Their fruits have sturdy shells that can be dried and used as tools, containers, musical instruments, etc. Another genus of the cucumber family includes the melons, whose fruits also have an inedible shell but it's not so sturdy. Squash are from yet another cucumber genus. In addition to the fruits we generally refer to in the kitchen as "squash," they also include the zucchini and the pumpkin.

Squash were probably the first cultivated plants in Mesoamerica, marking the dawn of the Neolithic Era with permanent agricultural settlements. In the Middle East it was the fig, and in South America it appears to have been the pepper. Grains, which we think of as the world's food supply, came much later. Their nutritional value is not obvious since they require cooking before they're digestible.
I am begining to suspect there is not regularity to all these names - just tradition. If there is, it would be nice to see a "family tree" with the categories as sub branches.Foods were named long before biology was a science and the Linnaean system of taxonomy was established. So the familiar names of animals and plants often have no logic in terms of their scientific classification.

Orleander
02-17-08, 09:21 AM
so just one cashew per fruit? And its inside a shell, not just hanging there? damn, no wonder they are expensive.

so why don't they leave it in the shell when they sell it like the pistachio?

kmguru
02-17-08, 07:10 PM
so just one cashew per fruit? And its inside a shell, not just hanging there? damn, no wonder they are expensive.

so why don't they leave it in the shell when they sell it like the pistachio?

Because the oil in the shell is highly toxic. It will take your skin off if gets to your skin. The oil is also flammable. One way to roast them is to collect a bunch of whole seeds and light a fire. When the fire subsides, you can dowse the amber and when cool, open the shell...yum...yum...

Commercial roasters remove the shel with machine and roast them like any other nut. In America people dark roast everything, so they taste really bad. Walmart sells Harmony Cashews that is roasted properly than the Planters kind. Also Costco sells Fancy Indian Cashews that is yum...yum...

Roasted peanuts should be eaten just blanched (san boiling water) to maintain the flavor. Chinese and Indian do it very well. Not sure Brazillians...

Asguard
02-17-08, 07:40 PM
Billy, you could well be right about that. I was trying to point out the inconsistancy in our labling so if my labling is wrong and they should all be berries then im not going to be offeneded

SAM, i just have to ask this. Is there ANYTHING which doesnt taste better with a little chilli?:p

kmguru
02-17-08, 07:43 PM
Other interesting tropical fruits

Jack Fruit - Artocarpus heterophyllus

http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/jackfruit2.jpg

Lychee - Litchi chinensis

http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/lychee.jpg

Sugar Apple -

http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/sugar_apple3.jpg

I have eaten several different fruits in Mexico, but do not know the name. When I identify...will post it....

S.A.M.
02-17-08, 07:48 PM
SAM, i just have to ask this. Is there ANYTHING which doesnt taste better with a little chilli?:p

Heh! We like our fruit salads spicy. Indian stores carry a fruit salad seasoning with black salt and other hot and sour spices.

Its called chaat masala. :D

kmguru
02-17-08, 08:00 PM
When Chaat Masala hits the fruits...it has that mild pungent odor...once aquired is really great....just enough not to overpower the fruit's original taste....

typically consisting of amchoor (dried mango powder), cumin, black salt, coriander, dried ginger, salt, black pepper, asafoetida (that gives that odor) but good for the body (anti-gas).

Fraggle Rocker
02-17-08, 10:34 PM
In America people dark roast everything, so they taste really bad. Walmart sells Harmony Cashews that is roasted properly than the Planters kind. Also Costco sells Fancy Indian Cashews that is yum...yum...Trader Joe's sells raw nuts. Most of them are pretty tasty that way.

Billy T
02-18-08, 07:38 AM
two notes on photos in post 23:

The first is really large - basket ball size, or sometimes even bigger, and grows on trees.

the third is called "pinga" or something like than here in Brazil. It is quite tasty. You break it apart (just a gentile tug with your fingers) and eat the white pulp cells inside. (Individually, they are about the size of a kernel of corn.) Each contains a black seed as I recall - have not eaten one for a few months, they tend to be expensive, but not terribly so - cost like strawberries / per kilo. There is also a layer of that white pulp a few mm thick lining the inside of the outer part you see in the photo - it is seed free and the best part. You scrape it off with spoon or your front top inciser teeth.

Orleander
02-18-08, 08:08 AM
Because the oil in the shell is highly toxic. It will take your skin off if gets to your skin. ......


makes me wonder how they ever decided they couild eat them then. If somethign takes off my skin, I'm not gonna touch it to try and figure out how I can eat it.

Fraggle Rocker
02-18-08, 08:19 AM
makes me wonder how they ever decided they couild eat them then. If somethign takes off my skin, I'm not gonna touch it to try and figure out how I can eat it.Mesolithic hunter-gatherers had very little in the way of food preservation technology. There was no impetus to develop it since they had to carry everything they owned on their long treks without the help of domesticated animals. So in a bad year you can bet that they'd thoroughly investigate any possible food source.

kmguru
02-18-08, 08:48 AM
makes me wonder how they ever decided they couild eat them then. If somethign takes off my skin, I'm not gonna touch it to try and figure out how I can eat it.

It is not like Nitric Acid. It takes a few days for the skin to peel off. Mildly painful if you have a sensitive skin. Less problematic than Sumac, and other itchy vines. The first group probably did not know the effects...but the seed tastes so good...so they must have figured out how to eat. The mango stem liquid can also cause blisters in the mouth (lip area) for some people...

During the hunter-gatherer days, people probably tried all fruits and nuts. In India, people usually sun-dry the fruit juices such as Mango and Berry juices during the growing season and eat throughout the year. Also they pickle assorted fruits and vegetables...

kmguru
02-18-08, 08:57 AM
The first is really large - basket ball size, or sometimes even bigger, and grows on trees.

the third is called "pinga" or something like than here in Brazil. ..

All these fruits taste great. There is a fruit, I can not find the pictures...it looks like Sapote...could be "Sapote" or Sapote family....with a brown outer shell, a long dark brown seed, orange to brown pulp....similar to the picture here.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Mamey.jpg/270px-Mamey.jpg

Orleander
02-18-08, 09:52 AM
....people usually sun-dry the fruit juices such as Mango and Berry juices...

how do you sun-dry juice? :confused:

lucifers angel
02-18-08, 09:52 AM
With that definition, Cashew Nut is really a seed since the fruit part is separate....Folk lore in India is that Cashew improves memory.

i better go and get myself some then.

Orleander
02-18-08, 09:53 AM
Improves memory? Who are you again? Oh, and nice sig line. I hate you. :p

lucifers angel
02-18-08, 09:56 AM
Improves memory? Who are you again? Oh, and nice sig line. I hate you. :p


I GOT BON JOVI TICKETS !!!! YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY

jealous much??? goodie!

best pressie ever, yes better than my kids!!

------------------

sorry back on topic!

Billy T
02-18-08, 09:59 AM
...http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Mamey.jpg/270px-Mamey.jpgI do not recognize that one -looks good. Perhaps it is variant of papya?
We have a really strange one in Brazil - very hard dark shell sort of the shape of a 3inch long lima bean. Inside there is nothing but a fine dry white powder - tastes ok, but I do not like very dry things in my mouth. Does not seem to have any seeds, unless that dry powder is some sort of spoors.

kmguru
02-18-08, 10:10 AM
how do you sun-dry juice? :confused:

You take the ripe fruit such as Mango, take the juice out to a pitcher. Get a metal baking sheet and grease as if you are going to bake. Pour the juice to say quarter inch thick. Put it out in the sun. Bring it at night and put it out in the sun next day. It may take 3 days for the juice to dry in a tropical or high moisture area. For protection from birds etc, you can cover it with a screen...

Alternately...in dry zones such as Utah, Colorado....use an electric dryer....

You get the idea...

Orleander
02-18-08, 10:19 AM
so you're making fruit leather???

kmguru
02-18-08, 10:51 AM
so you're making fruit leather???


No, they are Fruit-Rollups

http://image.blog.livedoor.jp/efca_study/imgs/3/c/3c87c648.jpg

S.A.M.
02-18-08, 10:55 AM
Except a lot tastier.

Yummmm!

http://www.nandyala.org/mahanandi/images/mango/driedmangopulpimagecopyrighted1.jpg

kmguru
02-18-08, 11:16 AM
Yes you can buy them at the Indian stores here in U.S., I forgot about that. We do not have one close by....so when I go to Dallas or Washington DC, I stock up with stuff like "Hot Mix" by deep foods...yummy...

Orleander
02-18-08, 01:06 PM
No, they are Fruit-Rollups

http://image.blog.livedoor.jp/efca_study/imgs/3/c/3c87c648.jpg

Fruit Roll Ups are not fruit. :rolleyes: They are candy. My kids aren't allowed to have them or the so called 'fruit snacks'.
They can have real fruit instead.

kmguru
02-18-08, 01:24 PM
They are, if you know where you are buying from. It will say 100% Fruit Juice. The Betty Crocker brand may be fake stuff and they may have trademarked the name. Apparently it was called Fruit Leather too. We had not bought for many years as the kids grew up and we now get fruit juices as well as real fruits...

http://www.stretchislandfruit.com/

Enmos
02-18-08, 02:15 PM
Cashews most definitely have a shell. Haven't you ever seen a cashew fruit? :)

http://diary.00ff00.com/wp-content/photos/cashew-fruit.jpg

The fruit has a strange acerbic taste (like starfruit), but tastes great after it is fully ripened with some salt and chili powder.

That's the strangest looking fruit I ever saw..

/marvel

Orleander
02-18-08, 05:05 PM
what about macadamia nuts? Why are those so expensive? Are they rare or just difficult to harvest?

Fraggle Rocker
02-18-08, 05:29 PM
Fruit Roll Ups are not fruit. They are candy. My kids aren't allowed to have them or the so called 'fruit snacks'. They can have real fruit instead.No food was forbidden in our house and I was never tricked into eating something "healthy" instead of what I wanted. We had plenty of fruits and veggies but the only cooking my mother was even half decent at was desserts so we had a lot of excellent desserts. She also liked chocolate candy so there was always plenty around.

I was left home alone a lot and I never gorged on candy or anything else. Frequently got involved with a project and forgot to eat lunch until 3 or 4 o'clock.

48 years after leaving home I'm still healthy and trim. I've kept up with nutritional info, get plenty of vitamins, minerals and fiber, avoid trans-fats, all that stuff. But I still eat lots of candy in addition to my fruits and veggies. My wife is a chocolatiere so there's no shortage in our house.

Don't turn any kind of food into a forbidden pleasure. It will backfire later in life.

Fraggle Rocker
02-18-08, 05:45 PM
what about macadamia nuts? Why are those so expensive? Are they rare or just difficult to harvest?I can't find any reason for this. They are originally from Australia and in fact are the country's only high-profit export crop. A tree can bear fruit for a hundred years. They require moderate temperatures and about 40 inches of annual rain, and have been cultivated in many places including Hawaii, California, Israel, Kenya, South Africa and Brazil. They're rather tricky to crack open but I'm sure industrial processes have solved that. They're the staple food of the gigantic Hyacinthine Macaw in domesticity, one of the few birds with a strong enough beak to crack them.

My wife occasionally uses macadamias in her homemade chocolates. I don't remember ever hearing her remark that they're exceptionally expensive. Have you shopped around? She usually buys her nuts raw at Trader Joe's.

kmguru
02-18-08, 08:28 PM
what about macadamia nuts? Why are those so expensive? Are they rare or just difficult to harvest?

I am not particularly fond of them. These nuts are best when eaten together with other nuts. Meaning I can eat a pound of Cashews in one sitting but not Macadamia nuts...

I have bought premium IceCream with Cashews or Pistachio but not Macadamia. But it should be a good nut to eat like any other nut....

Walter L. Wagner
02-18-08, 11:47 PM
Since this is such a nutty thread, I thought I'd add my two cents worth.

The cashew is a close relative of the mango. You can notice the similarity of the fruit.
They are both in the same family as poison oak and poison ivy.

Consequently, some people are allergic to mango, with a reaction similar to poison oak.

Likewise, the fruit of the cashew, and the raw cashew nut, cause allergic reactions in many people. Make certain the cashew nut is roasted before you try to eat it.

Enjoy your fruits!

Orleander
02-19-08, 05:27 AM
... I don't remember ever hearing her remark that they're exceptionally expensive. Have you shopped around? She usually buys her nuts raw at Trader Joe's.

Macadamia nuts are about $8.99 a lb. I'd rather buy a nice steak at those costs.

Billy T
02-19-08, 06:10 AM
Macadamia nuts are about $8.99 a lb. I'd rather buy a nice steak at those costs.The nuts are a more healthy protien source. Their oils are good for your heart etc. too. Although humans do have some inate tastes, most are acquired. I think the nuts taste better than steak, which I seldom eat, even though it is cheaper here in Brazil (world's largest cattle herd.)

Orleander
02-19-08, 07:32 AM
LOL, who eats steak for the health of it?

Myles
02-19-08, 07:38 AM
what is the difference?

My husband eats alot of peanuts (which I know aren't really nuts) and sunflower seeds. I like cashew, pistashio, and macadamia nuts. But are these nuts or seeds?

I think people who eat seeds are nuts.

Orleander
02-19-08, 07:43 AM
LOL, I take it you don't save and dry your pumpkin seeds at Halloween?

kmguru
02-19-08, 08:59 AM
I love pepita seeds...they are supposed to act as Viagra too!

Fraggle Rocker
02-19-08, 09:01 AM
The nuts are a more healthy protien source.But nuts are an incomplete protein source: they don't match the amino acid profile required for human nutrition. The only food that matches that profile is meat and other animal products such as eggs and milk. It is possible to live on a vegan diet but one must meticulously balance the nuts (or legumes which have a similar but not identical amino acid profile) with grains, which provide the missing amino acids. This is not terribly difficult but it does require paying attention.
Their oils are good for your heart etc. too. Although humans do have some innate tastes, most are acquired.Humans are the only primates who evolved into true hunters, and we therefore have an instinctive taste for meat. To deny this instinct is presumably no harder on our spirit than denying any other primitive instinct, such as having promiscuous sex or killing off rival tribes, but these denials and their impact must be acknowledged for good emotional health.
LOL, who eats steak for the health of it?Meat is a healthy source of nutrition for Homo sapiens, who alone among primates, as I already pointed out, is specifically adapted for it. It's instructive to note that the life expectancy of an adult who had managed to survive the illnesses of childhood was around 50 in the Mesolithic Era when our ancestors were hunter-gatherers and ate a lot of meat. In the Roman Era, when humanity had shifted to a grain-intensive diet, that life expectancy had plummeted into the low 20s. I've been eating beef copiously throughout my life and my cholesterol level is still okay. It's the trans-fatty acids, most of which are artificial, that are so bad for ya. If you don't eat too much meat so your body starts storing fat, you'll probably be fine with it.
I think people who eat seeds are nuts.Many common seeds can be eaten raw and were a staple of the Mesolithic diet. They fall into the same nutritional category as nuts, a source of (incomplete) amino acids as well as certain vitamins and minerals.
LOL, I take it you don't save and dry your pumpkin seeds at Halloween?I just can't stand the ordeal of cracking seeds, and only eat the ones that have been factory-processed. And of course those are too expensive to eat on a budget. We buy pumpkins at giveaway prices the day after Halloween, cook and freeze the contents, and use them in dog food, parrot food and pastry all year long. The seeds go to the parrots but it's not their favorite food. I suppose we should try putting them in the outdoor feeders and see if the grosbeaks like them, they're tiny flying pigs who will eat almost anything.

Myles
02-19-08, 09:53 AM
LOL, I take it you don't save and dry your pumpkin seeds at Halloween?

No, when I was a kid we went door knocking and got apples and nuts. WE played games such as apple bobbing, snap apple and so on but no nuts. Pumpkins are not grown commercially in the UK or Ireland so that might explain te difference/

kmguru
02-19-08, 09:55 AM
Humans are the only primates who evolved into true hunters, and we therefore have an instinctive taste for meat. To deny this instinct is presumably no harder on our spirit than denying any other primitive instinct, such as having promiscuous sex or killing off rival tribes, but these denials and their impact must be acknowledged for good emotional health.

Unfortunately the physical changes does not match with such evolution. Our enzyme profile in the mouth is still that of a vegan and the K9 teeth is yet to evolve....

Myles
02-19-08, 09:59 AM
But nuts are an incomplete protein source: they don't match the amino acid profile required for human nutrition. The only food that matches that profile is meat and other animal products such as eggs and milk. It is possible to live on a vegan diet but one must meticulously balance the nuts (or legumes which have a similar but not identical amino acid profile) with grains, which provide the missing amino acids. This is not terribly difficult but it does require paying attention.Humans are the only primates who evolved into true hunters, and we therefore have an instinctive taste for meat. To deny this instinct is presumably no harder on our spirit than denying any other primitive instinct, such as having promiscuous sex or killing off rival tribes, but these denials and their impact must be acknowledged for good emotional health.Meat is a healthy source of nutrition for Homo sapiens, who alone among primates, as I already pointed out, is specifically adapted for it. It's instructive to note that the life expectancy of an adult who had managed to survive the illnesses of childhood was around 50 in the Mesolithic Era when our ancestors were hunter-gatherers and ate a lot of meat. In the Roman Era, when humanity had shifted to a grain-intensive diet, that life expectancy had plummeted into the low 20s. I've been eating beef copiously throughout my life and my cholesterol level is still okay. It's the trans-fatty acids, most of which are artificial, that are so bad for ya. If you don't eat too much meat so your body starts storing fat, you'll probably be fine with it.Many common seeds can be eaten raw and were a staple of the Mesolithic diet. They fall into the same nutritional category as nuts, a source of (incomplete) amino acids as well as certain vitamins and minerals.I just can't stand the ordeal of cracking seeds, and only eat the ones that have been factory-processed. And of course those are too expensive to eat on a budget. We buy pumpkins at giveaway prices the day after Halloween, cook and freeze the contents, and use them in dog food, parrot food and pastry all year long. The seeds go to the parrots but it's not their favorite food. I suppose we should try putting them in the outdoor feeders and see if the grosbeaks like them, they're tiny flying pigs who will eat almost anything.

We feed or dicky birds on peanuts, with some fat added in winter.I shall have to look up grosbeak. Ours are mainly tits and finches. We also have a resident robin.plus nesting blackbirds and thrushes/

lucifers angel
02-19-08, 11:15 AM
We feed or dicky birds on peanuts, with some fat added in winter.I shall have to look up grosbeak. Ours are mainly tits and finches. We also have a resident robin.plus nesting blackbirds and thrushes/


yeah we have nuts for birds in our garden and in the winter we also use fat!

Myles
02-19-08, 05:37 PM
yeah we have nuts for birds in our garden and in the winter we also use fat!

Well done. And dont forget the water when evertthing is iced over !

Spud Emperor
02-19-08, 05:46 PM
Don't have a problem here with things freezing over but I have planted many native and endemic trees and shrubs for the wildlife. I live in one of the last strongholds of the Glossy Black Cockatoo whose favourite food is the seeds of Casuarina littoralis, black She-oak so I've planted a few of these as well as butterfly attracting and nectar providing plants for butterflies and honeyeaters.
Unfortunately for me, my fruit trees are a huge hit with local lorikeets, rosellas, king parrots and fruit bats ( flying foxes).

Orleander
02-19-08, 05:59 PM
can we eat acorns?

Billy T
02-19-08, 06:03 PM
can we eat acorns?Pigs do. I think humans can to if they are well boiled, but am not sure. there is at certain times of the year in Brazil a nut from a type of pine tree, which is good to eat after boiling. It has a sort of leathery shell that yo can open with your finger nails and peal back to make the nut "pop out" The nut is about 1 cm long and sort of almond shaped. After being boilded, it is soft, a little stiocky and mildly sweet. I think the boiling converts some of the more complex starches in to sugars. I have tasted acrons. As I recall they are quite bitter. Brazil has very few if any oaks, so this is from long ago.

kmguru
02-19-08, 06:06 PM
Spud:

Are you an Ornithologist?

Asguard
02-19-08, 06:09 PM
billy T you mean a pine nut?

if so they are DELICOUS, they go great with spinch or basil and are one of the ingrediants i use to make pesto

Spud Emperor
02-19-08, 06:10 PM
Spud:

Are you an Ornithologist?

Only amateur, also have interest in botany.

Billy T
02-19-08, 06:29 PM
billy T you mean a pine nut?...Quite possible, but when living in US I never had one - only heard of them. They are very cheap when in season here.

The pine they come from has somewhat atypical shape, limbs. The limbs do not "droop," perhaps even curl upwards a little. Typically four of five grow out at the same level on the trunk than there are none for a yard or so more up the trunk where the next cluster of four of five will be found. The tree is tall and very "stately" - something you might see in a Japanese painting.

With that information, do you think it is what is called a "pine nut"?

Asguard
02-19-08, 06:37 PM
I dont know, do they look like this?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/KoreanPineSeeds.jpg/180px-KoreanPineSeeds.jpg




Pine nuts are the edible seeds of pines (family Pinaceae, genus Pinus). About 20 species of pine produce seeds large enough to be worth harvesting; in other pines the seeds are also edible, but are too small to be of value as a human food

.
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Species and geographic spread
In Europe, pine nuts come from the Stone Pine (Pinus pinea), which has been cultivated for its nuts for over 6,000 years, and harvested from wild trees for far longer. The Swiss Pine (Pinus cembra) is also used to a very small extent.

In Asia, two species are widely harvested, Korean Pine (Pinus koraiensis) in northeast Asia (the most important species in international trade), and Chilgoza Pine (Pinus gerardiana) in the western Himalaya. Four other species, Siberian Pine (Pinus sibirica), Siberian Dwarf Pine (Pinus pumila), Chinese White Pine (Pinus armandii) and Lacebark Pine (Pinus bungeana), are also used to a lesser extent.

In North America, the main species are three of the pinyon pines, Colorado Pinyon (Pinus edulis), Single-leaf Pinyon (Pinus monophylla), and Mexican Pinyon (Pinus cembroides). The other eight pinyon species are used to a small extent, as are Gray Pine (Pinus sabineana), Torrey Pine (Pinus torreyana) and Sugar Pine (Pinus lambertiana). In the United States, pine nuts are mainly harvested by Native American tribes; in many areas, they have exclusive rights to the harvest.

Viewed 20/02/08 at 11:04 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_nut)

Billy T
02-20-08, 05:34 AM
I dont know, do they look like this?...The eatable seed does, but not the nut's shell. It is more definitely pointed at one end and sometimes with a hint of fiber, sort of hairs, sticking out of the pointed end. Surely the Brazilian ones are just a variety, as there are many. Thank for the infro.

Orleander
02-20-08, 05:42 AM
are there any nuts that are inedible to humans?

Spud Emperor
02-20-08, 05:47 AM
There's a few local ones I know of, a particular cycad has poisonous nuts.
The aboriginal people had a method for leaching the poison then eating them.
I imagine there are hundreds of poisonous seeds, nuts and berries.

Fraggle Rocker
02-20-08, 05:48 AM
are there any nuts that are inedible to humans?Oh lordy yes indeed. There are several species of macadamias, for example, and some of them are poisonous to humans.

Myles
02-20-08, 07:51 AM
Don't have a problem here with things freezing over but I have planted many native and endemic trees and shrubs for the wildlife. I live in one of the last strongholds of the Glossy Black Cockatoo whose favourite food is the seeds of Casuarina littoralis, black She-oak so I've planted a few of these as well as butterfly attracting and nectar providing plants for butterflies and honeyeaters.
Unfortunately for me, my fruit trees are a huge hit with local lorikeets, rosellas, king parrots and fruit bats ( flying foxes).

How big is your spread ?

Fraggle Rocker
02-20-08, 08:29 AM
Don't have a problem here with things freezing over but I have planted many native and endemic trees and shrubs for the wildlife. I live in one of the last strongholds of the Glossy Black Cockatoo. . . .I gather that's not the bird we call Black Palm Cockatoo, large and black with red cheeks, the poster child for the endangered species crusade. An American veterinarian/aviculturist was successful not only in breeding them domestically but in curing the disease that threatened to wipe out the species. As a result there are almost enough now in North America to sell to hobbyists. Much as that grates on the nerves of the green fundamentalists, it's the path to salvation for many species. 2008 may be the year when the number of breeding pairs of hyacinthine macaws (the crusade's other poster child) in American homes and aviaries exceeds the number in the shrinking Brazilian rain forest.
. . . . whose favourite food is the seeds of Casuarina littoralis, black She-oak so I've planted a few of these as well as butterfly attracting and nectar providing plants for butterflies and honeyeaters. Unfortunately for me, my fruit trees are a huge hit with local lorikeets, rosellas, king parrots and fruit bats ( flying foxes).It's very difficult to cultivate vegetation that will attract only the desired species. America's subtropical cities like Los Angeles and Miami have huge breeding populations of feral psittacines of many species. The cultivated tropical foliage planted in those cities provides a more or less natural food source for these birds. They're inquisitive and adventurous enough to try anything that looks edible, so you might see multiple species of Amazons, conures and the occasional macaw feeding in the same garden.

Unfortunately we have no fruit bats on this continent, although perhaps in large numbers they can be as brash and annoying as wild cockatoos are reputed to be.

Billy T
02-21-08, 03:32 PM
At site www.drinkpurple.com can see the seven fruits and berries they use. I just invested in them yesterday when first learned of them as I have been eating acai water ice in Brazil for more than a year. They claim that adding alcohol even increases the health benefits claimed for Purple, but I will not mix my "just before bedtime" shot of vodica with it as acai is a stimulant as well as an anti-oxident.

Check them out as possible investment. Has any one tasted "Purple" ? It is now on market in a few cities and at some GNC stores. If yes, what did you think? Is 10 oz worth $3 (even to a health nut)? What does 10 oz of GaterAid cost in USA?

kmguru
02-21-08, 05:04 PM
I drink Pomgranate and Berry juice that looks purple everyday...it is supposed to have high antioxidants and leutin etc....I drink it for my eyes. I have maintained my sight at -1.25 for driving for the last 25 years through Carrot and Berry Juice.

Orleander
02-21-08, 06:34 PM
Is a coconut a seed or a nut? And what are cocoa beans?

kmguru
02-21-08, 06:43 PM
Coconut should be a seed because you can plant it and it will grow. But the coconut that you buy at the stores, the covering is taken off.

Cocoa bean is where chocolate comes from

http://gourmetsleuth.com/images/cocoabeans.jpg

Orleander
02-21-08, 06:45 PM
Coconut should be a seed because you can plant it and it will grow. But the coconut that you buy at the stores, the covering is taken off.

Cocoa bean is where chocolate comes from.....

LOL, I know that. I mean is it a seed, a nut, a bean? And if you plant nuts, they will grow. Acorns and walnuts....

kmguru
02-21-08, 07:06 PM
I have some Cocoa Beans. But unfortunately I think they are roasted or something, because they did not germinate. When you bite in to it, they taste like chocolate but bitter. I can get them in bulk, if anyone wants to buy. I just got the sample from Cameroon.

Billy T
02-21-08, 08:09 PM
...they taste like chocolate but bitter...."BUT BITTER"???? Chocolate IS bitter.

Why do you think a Hershey bar is mainly sugar and milk powder, etc.?

Asguard
02-21-08, 08:28 PM
you guys ever tried choclate coated coffee beans?

(i wish i had a piture of homer drwling to post right here:p)

Fraggle Rocker
02-21-08, 10:17 PM
Pigs do.Yes, it says very clearly in Winnie the Pooh: "Piglets eat haycorns." :)
Is a coconut a seed or a nut?You're not gonna believe this, but the coconut is a DRUPE. I'll let you look that up! There are way too many different types of fruits! All the palm tree fruits like dates are drupes. So are olives, mangoes, coffee "beans," pistachios, and the entire Prunus genus, which covers peaches, apricots, nectarines, cherries, plums and almonds.
And what are cocoa beans?I can't find them referred to as anything but just plain "fruits." When they refer to them as cocoa "beans," they always use the quote marks to indicate that it's a colloquial name rather than scientific.
"BUT BITTER"???? Chocolate IS bitter. Why do you think a Hershey bar is mainly sugar and milk powder, etc.?My wife is a chocolatiere. Chocolate is a treat that had to wait for the Industrial Revolution. Processing cocoa "beans" into chocolate liquor, which is the cocoa solids and cocoa butter from which what we call "chocolate" is made, is a heroic exercise in chemical engineering that could not have been performed before the late 19th century. It requires precision heating and stirring and cooling with very delicate control.

The "chocolate" that we buy in 5-kg bricks from factories in France, Belgium, Ecuador, etc., to make truffles, nut bark, soft-center chocolates, etc. has already been mixed with sugar and the ratio of cocoa solids (which contain all the caffeine and theobroma, the two drugs in chocolate) to cocoa butter (which is caffeine-free, has good flavor and texture, and is used by itself to make white chocolate) is precisely controlled. You can buy a bar of this stuff in Trader Joe's or other gourmet stores, with the cocoa content percentage displayed on the wrapper. Anything over about 60% is "dark" chocolate, less than that is "milk" chocolate and may actually have milk and other odds and ends added.

The chocolate drink or "cocoa" that people made 150 years ago before it was possible to make solid chocolate candy was a pale imitation of the chocolate flavor that now makes life worth living--those poor folks. The stuff that the Aztecs and Incas were mixing with water, using their pretty little chocolate beaters, should be called "cocoa bean soup" and it's amazing anybody recognized its potential and started exporting it to Europe.

Orleander
02-22-08, 05:37 AM
A drupe!? I'm never gonna remember that. lol

Spud Emperor
02-22-08, 05:53 AM
How big is your spread ?

Small spread, but a small house too so there's room to plant.
I've managed to squeeze in about 20 fruit trees and six eucalypts, some of my faves, I planted a Sydney bluegum ( shit name for a majestic tree), it grew at 3 metres a year through a wicked drought and I could climb it to a height of 4-5 metres after only a few years. I have a spotted gum which grew even faster and has finally got its spots after 5 years.
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/Spudemperor/wetspottedgums.jpg

These are spotted gums from local forest, incidentally, the fernlike guys in the foreground are the cycads ( Macrozamia communis) which has the poisonous nuts.

My Scribbly gum is yet to get its scribbles but my ironbark is irony ( no particular irony in this comment except that if there was any it would be lost on me anyway) and my peppermint gum is fully pepperminty and my West Australian flowering gum is a mass of deep crimson right on Christmas.

Spud Emperor
02-22-08, 06:18 AM
I gather that's not the bird we call Black Palm Cockatoo

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/Spudemperor/Black-Cockatoo_Glossy2_Harris.jpg
Here's the Glossy black FR, not as imposing as the Palm cocky,

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/Spudemperor/Palm_Cockatoo1.jpg
Check out that beak, but A fun little dude none the less.
They are rare but I see them in pairs occasionally. I haven't had them in on my Casuarinas yet and if they come it will be more for my benefit than theirs.

I do get Sulphur crested Cockatoos feeding on my Acacia baileyana ( magnificent tree with silvery grey foliage and a mass of brilliant yellow bloom in the dead of Winter). Yes they are raucous but I love it.
Fruit bats are more oppressive than flocks of Cockies and form massive colonies which can be quite smelly. They still make a great sight at dusk, wheeling around in their thousands.

Cockies, especially Sulphur crested can form big flocks and the noise can be deafening, but for me, it's the stuff that can actually get my patriotic juices flowing more than anything but a chorus of cicadas on a scorching summer evening. Fraggle I think you'll appreciate this, I have refined the art of conducting cicadas in the bush; they sing in rising and falling rythms and form great crescendoes followed by silence. They will start up again in waves from different areas, almost in quadrants and a little careful listening will tune you in to their rythm. I can hold a mob of kids spellbound, jaws agape as I conduct this wonderful choir.

All the different Cockatoos have different calls ( screeches, raaarks, squeaks and chatter) I can do a reasonable impression of most except Galahs who are out of my vocal range but whenever a group of Yellow tailed blacks or Sulphur cresteds are flying over, I'll call out in Cockatoo and human ( Screech, creeaaak! "ow's it goin' brudder? creeaak!") I always get a reply or response.

As for the selective targetting of feeders on a particular plant, the casuarina seed pod is very tough and only the Black cockies will go for it.
I've planted Banksia integrifolia, coastal banksia for the Yellow tailed blacks and have had them come to visit.
My butterfly attractors, Kunzea amigua are spectacularly successful and have the most amazing rich honey scent as well.

As for chocolate 70-80% dark is my speed, quite bitter and very delicious.

Billy T
02-22-08, 07:34 AM
I am not a "birder" but I was given a Calopsita for last birthday. It looks vaguely like a less extreme version of bird with curved beak and head feather crown display in your second photo; However, it is yellow with grey wings and has the characteristic "dime-sized" orange spots on both sides of the head, just under the eyes. Perhaps someone will post a photo? - I can not up link any for unknown reasons.

It is nearly a year old now and still can only fly when it has the "ground effect" working for it - I.e. it can lift up off the floor less than a foot. This makes it safe from self injury by "window collision." Calopsitas are not expensive and very human friendly birds - he likes to sit on my hand, climb up to my shoulder (then pull on my long hair etc) If I ignore him (or her?) she complains "verbally" asking for a ride etc. The front of the cage folds down to make a porch and it says open all night and most of the day (closed only when no one will be home for a few hours.) He is very discerning in his tastes - carefully eats one type of seed first out of the commercial mix. I give her a few water melon* seeds ocasionally that it likes a lot also.

Calopsitas make very good pets. Mine likes to show appreciation for being allowed on my hand or arm for a ride around the house by, by head bobing, standing on one leg, flexing tail and wing, soft "talking" to me, etc -actions rarely done when alone in its open cage. I understand what several of its different "calls" mean. One is "I am bored - I want a ride." another is "I want new seeds - you don't expect me to eat those that remain, do you?" (I often refuse to comply, and let him get hungry enough to eat the less tasty ones as I am cheap and also think Trill's "calopsita mix" is better for him. When only the ones he really hates remain, I stir coat them with a few drops of honey and he will eat some more a little more willingly.)
---------------
*Mix does not contain them and I know they are non-toxic at least for humans.

Orleander
02-22-08, 08:06 AM
Do birds naturally eat peanuts? Do they know to dig them up? Do they ever break into a squirrels stash of acorns?

Fraggle Rocker
02-22-08, 09:51 AM
I do get Sulphur crested Cockatoos feeding on my Acacia baileyana ( magnificent tree with silvery grey foliage and a mass of brilliant yellow bloom in the dead of Winter). Yes they are raucous but I love it. Cockies, especially Sulphur crested can form big flocks and the noise can be deafeningI wasn't referring to the noise although as a psittaculturist I know that even a small flock of parrots can create cacophony. We had feral conures in the Los Angeles area and when the fruit trees were in season many people considered them pests. In fact it's generally speculated that the reason so many cherry-headed conures "accidentally" fly away from home is that people "forget" to trim their flight feathers because they're so noisy to keep indoors.

I've read articles about the mayhem cockatoos can wreak. One said that a flock would descend on a fiberglass-body car and chew it down to the chassis. Another said that in at least one city they had learned to unscrew valve caps and push the valve stems on tires, to blast themselves with air, and there had been an epidemic of cars with four flat tires.
I am not a "birder" but I was given a Calopsita for last birthday. It is nearly a year old now and still can only fly when it has the "ground effect" working for it - I.e. it can lift up off the floor less than a foot. This makes it safe from self injury by "window collision."Be very careful. I can't tell you the number of birds that have been lost on their "first flight." People get used to playing with them out in the yard and suddenly one day they get enough lift to fly out into the woods and can't find their way back. Another common problem is not keeping their flight feathers clipped. Birds have a reflex center in their shoulders so if they're startled the wings start flapping before they can think about it. Next thing they know they're two blocks away with no idea of how to get home.

Note: In our experience cockatiels are ready to fly at eight to twelve weeks and need their first flight-feather trim at that time. Like most small psittacines they reach adulthood in one year. If yours is a year old and still incapable of real flight you should have him examined. Or her, very few parrot species are dimorphic and you need a DNA test on a stool sample to find out what you've got.
Calopsitas make very good pets. Mine likes to show appreciation for being allowed on my hand or arm for a ride around the house by, by head bobing, standing on one leg, flexing tail and wing, soft "talking" to me, etc -actions rarely done when alone in its open cage.One of the reasons cockatiels are so popular is that they are naturally tolerant of human company and don't have to be hand-fed as babies in order to imprint on our species.
Do birds naturally eat peanuts? Do they know to dig them up?I can't find any information on the question of digging up raw peanuts. Perhaps digging birds like crows might do it, but that's just conjecture. Peanuts are a staple of bird feeders, especially for birds with large or strong beaks. Grosbeaks especially would love them. However, there's a widespread fungus that infects much of the peanut crop, and it's fatal to birds. You're taking a chance if you give birds raw peanuts.
Do they ever break into a squirrels stash of acorns?The usual suspects will eat acorns: jays, woodpeckers, grosbeaks, all of the birds with powerful beaks. I can't find any information on stealing from squirrels. The logistics of that plot sound pretty daunting. Most birds are afraid to go into enclosed areas except for a nice cozy nest box. I can't imagine they'd dare to enter one that is obviously the territory of a large rodent.

Billy T
02-22-08, 11:41 AM
...Be very careful. I can't tell you the number of birds that have been lost on their "first flight." People get used to playing with them out in the yard and suddenly one day they get enough lift to fly out into the woods and can't find their way back. Another common problem is not keeping their flight feathers clipped. ...Thanks. I do not take it outside, but do take it close to the windows when on my hand to let it look outside. It often sees its reflection and exhibts some interest (It has a mirror in the cage, but no longer pays much attention to that "bird in the mirror.") It may seem cruel, but as I do fear it may suddenly learn how to fly (without ground efffect aid) I usually rapidly move it forward while it is looking out of the window to bang its beak into the glass. It seem be be learning what is going to happen, pulls it head back or steps back on my hand so as not to let me bang its nose into the glass.

It seems to be a lot smarter than I thought a bird could be. Normally at night it climbs out side the cage and roosts on the top. It is waiting there for me when I get up. If I over sleep I begins to call for me to come and get it. Wife, I and bird have breakfast together in the kitchen - it sitting on rag covered chair, and eating "false seeds" which are made with egg and flour I think - It does not like their smell if straight form the sealed pack so I have some that have been "airing out" for few days that it finds "ok" but soon stops eating them and give me its "I want a ride call" but as I am not thru with my coffee I just offer my foot near its chair seat. It will fly/jump down to it if I do not bring it close enough for it to step onto my slipper. Then it walks up leg and tries to go up chest or arm, but I am busy turing news paper etc so seldom let it. - it then becomes angry with me -tries to bite etc.

Do you know anything about its claws? Sometimes now, on our walks inside the house to look out the windows etc. it loses its balance. Once recently as it was falling off, the sharp claw tip scratched my arm skin enought to expose some blood spots in a 2 inch scratch line. The claws were not that sharp a few months ago. If I could think of how to do it, I would sand paper them to make them more blunt, but fear it would hurt him if I clipped even just the tips.

Also I now need to do something for its own good as occasionally a claw gets stuck in my clothing and he is flapping wings and appears to be twisting his leg, but thus far, my quick assistance has prevented any injury.

I have stopped, but until a few months ago, I gave it "flight lesson" by quickly lowering the arm he was sitting on. He kept control as he falls to the floor accelerating down at about G/2. He never made any "forward progress" just dropping nearly straight down with wings frantically flapping. His cage floor is about 20 inches above the room floor and the open porch is also. If I ignore his "I am bored - want attention" call for couple of hours, he gets his courage / anger up and flys down to floor and walks over to me at the computer to sit on my foot. I often then put him on my pants leg, near knee, where he becomes quite and works on his feathers. - Makes considerable fine white flakes on my blue jeans.

Fraggle Rocker
02-22-08, 08:54 PM
Thanks. I do not take it outside, but do take it close to the windows when on my hand to let it look outside. It often sees its reflection and exhibts some interest (It has a mirror in the cage, but no longer pays much attention to that "bird in the mirror.") It may seem cruel, but as I do fear it may suddenly learn how to fly (without ground efffect aid) I usually rapidly move it forward while it is looking out of the window to bang its beak into the glass. It seem be be learning what is going to happen, pulls it head back or steps back on my hand so as not to let me bang its nose into the glass.If the glass is not so clean that the bird can't tell it's there, he won't bang into it. Birds only do that on spotless glass, or coming in from outside when the glass is dark and just looks like empty space. I don't think you have to train him to not bump into glass.
It seems to be a lot smarter than I thought a bird could be.Psittacines (the parrot order) are the smartest of all birds. They can take things apart, figure out your schedule, just generally get the better of you. You generally have to keep them provided with toys. Cockatiels are extremely social birds and do not like being alone. You will have to be committed to spending a lot of time with this bird, like several hours a day. Just being his "tree" and letting him sit on your shoulder is good, but he also needs a lot of playtime. People who don't have enough time for a parrot should have two parrots, the same species or two that are roughly equal in size and won't hurt each other. We used to breed parrots and we were disappointed when we found out that most people really don't have enough time to spend with them.
Normally at night it climbs out side the cage and roosts on the top. It is waiting there for me when I get up. If I over sleep I begins to call for me to come and get it.Be careful, parrots are very demanding when they get into a routine they expect. It's best to not let him get into a consistent schedule or he'll drive you nuts if you vary it. As they say, with a dog you absolutely have to get him into a routine, with a parrot you absolutely have to avoid it.

BTW, you should lock him up securely overnight with a cover over his cage, and not let him have the run of the place. He'll get more adventurous and one morning you'll find him digging through the trash, unweaving the wires on the window screen so he can get outside, or chewing the door gasket off of your fridge or the legs off of your piano. Leaving an unsupervised parrot in your house is LITERALLY leaving a terrorist in your house. They can and do cause that much trouble!
. . . . give me its "I want a ride call" but as I am not thru with my coffee I just offer my foot near its chair seat. It will fly/jump down to it if I do not bring it close enough for it to step onto my slipper. Then it walks up leg and tries to go up chest or arm, but I am busy turing news paper etc so seldom let it. - it then becomes angry with me -tries to bite etc.Don't let him boss you around or you're toast. If he gets bitchy lock him up in his cage for an hour in a room with no company. But it sounds like you're making some mistakes. You're letting him get used to a routine, and perhaps you don't have the several hours a day to devote to him. A cockatiel may be the wrong bird for you, they are just godawful demanding. It's like having a six-month-old baby who will never grow up and leave you alone, but just die in ten years.
Do you know anything about its claws?Our birds get to walk on concrete so it keeps their claws ground down. They make sandpaper sleeves you can put on their perches that do the same thing. But it sounds like you're too late for that. You're going to have to trim his nails. That is a very tricky business requiring the proper size and type of clipper for your species and you have to know what you're doing and approach it from the right angle. It's much harder than doing dog or cat nails. If you screw up and cut too far down they'll bleed and you need to have a container of styptic powder right there because they can bleed to death that way. You admit you're a beginner with birds so you'd better let your vet do it. Even a dog or cat vet probably has enough training to trim his nails even if he couldn't diagnose ornithosis. You cannot leave them that way, it makes it hard for him to walk and grasp and perch.
I have stopped, but until a few months ago, I gave it "flight lesson" by quickly lowering the arm he was sitting on. He kept control as he falls to the floor accelerating down at about G/2. He never made any "forward progress" just dropping nearly straight down with wings frantically flapping.Your bird is very weak. He should be able to get lift and fly perfectly for a short distance indoors, even if he has no endurance. I strongly recommend having an avian veterinarian examine him. There are lots of them in the U.S. these days so I assume it's the same over there. Birds are very popular pets.
If I ignore his "I am bored - want attention" call for couple of hours, he gets his courage / anger up and flys down to floor and walks over to me at the computer to sit on my foot. I often then put him on my pants leg, near kneeYou're letting him become the boss and get his way. I promise you will be very very very sorry. But also this seems to be due to the fact that you just don't have enough time for him. Having a cockatiel is kind of like having a retarded child, you have to want him to be the center of your life. Except a cockatiel is as smart as a normal child and can get into a whole lot of trouble.
. . . . where he becomes quite and works on his feathers. - Makes considerable fine white flakes on my blue jeans.Yeah, they have a lot of dander. Many people are allergic to it. All parrots preen themselves that way but the cockatoo family is especially famous for their cloud-soft feathers and their ability to produce giant clouds of dander.

Orleander
02-22-08, 08:56 PM
Hey! Why is your cockatoo in my nuts?!
;)
This is a nut/seed/drupe thread. :p

Spud Emperor
02-23-08, 12:41 AM
Hey! Why is your cockatoo in my nuts?!
;)
This is a nut/seed/drupe thread. :p

I thought you liked a cockatoo.

* spud ducks for cover*

Billy T
02-23-08, 02:40 PM
Hey! Why is your cockatoo in my nuts?!...From what fraggle is telling me, I think Billy T is a large nut.
One finally note on the bird. I gave it a loop of broken, dirty old shoe string, as I noted how much it likes strings it finds on the floor. It only takes him about an hour, when he is working on it to untie the square knot in the middle and less than that the knots at the top ends of the loop attaching it to the cage. Fortunately, he has grown tired of that game and has not untied it for about 10 days now. I just discovered that portugese Calopsita = English "Cockatiel" as type (from ingrediants translation on seed package) Aslo think the seed he likes best comes from millet if that is a small round, light tan ball.

madanthonywayne
02-23-08, 04:44 PM
Let's get real. If it's sweet and everyone likes to eat it, it's a fruit. If it's nasty and your mom has to force you to eat it, it's a vegetable.

Orleander
02-23-08, 06:48 PM
LOL, true

Isn't an artichoke a flower?

Fraggle Rocker
02-23-08, 07:41 PM
So are broccoli and cauliflower (which are two varieties of the same species of plant).

Orleander
02-23-08, 07:46 PM
brussel sprouts??

Billy T
02-24-08, 06:17 AM
From Wiki's Millet:

"... The protein content in millet is very close to that of wheat; both provide about 11% protein by weight. Millets are rich in B vitamins, especially niacin, B6 and folic acid, calcium, iron, potassium, magnesium, and zinc. Millets contain no gluten, so they cannot rise for bread. When combined with wheat or xanthan gum (for those who have coeliac disease), though, they can be used for raised bread. Alone, they are suited for flatbread.
...
Preparation {for humans - my bird likes it raw -Millet is the food of its choice.}
The basic preparation consists in washing the millet and toasting it while moving until one notes a characteristic scent. {I will use my big wok.} Then five measures of boiling water for each two measures of millet are added with some sugar* or salt. The mixture is cooked covered using low flame for 30-35 minutes. ..."
--------------------
Last week, on BBC, there was a program about the danger mankind is producing by growing only a few cerial crops in large volume. (Especially dangerous now that global stocks / per person have never been as low as they are today.) For example, some wheat "rust" or rice fungus than became uncontrolled globally would kill more than two dozen nuclear bombs could.

Millet was once more inportant than at least wheat (comparable to rice) but is labor intensive to harvest. Some foresighted people working in the Indian agriculture area are trying, with modest success, to get millet returned to the commercial market - mainly via "health food stores," where the higher price will be accepted as millet is more vitamine and mineral rich than wheat. - All in all, millet is a superior cerial food, except for the slightly higher production cost.

Next to the Wiki text, quoted above, are several photos. One shows the small round light-tan balls (seeds) I speculated were millet in prior "bird post." Now I am sure that millet is the best tasting of about 15 different seeds, if you are a Cockatiel. I will try to get some for testing how they taste to me.

My breakfast every day is already strange (by most people's POV) It is a banana, microwaved one minute, with about 1/3 the banana's volume of fine- chopped, raw whole oats sprinkled over the smashed banana. Then about two talble spoons of canola oil is mixed in to make a nice, very tasty and healthy, paste. Every month or so, I process at least a killo of the whole oats, (bought from store selling horse food in bushel basket, or more volume, once or twice a year) in my blender into a fine powder, I store in glass jars.
When I find where I can buy chemical free millet, half of what goes into that blender will be toasted** millet. My first wife was Norwegian and I learned to like flat bread, which they make mainly from rye. I plan also to make some millet flat bread. I can and do sometimes buy the Norwegian "Rye Crisp" packets here in Brazil, but they are expensive and although there is now no need for my frugality (my kids say "cheapness") it is too deeply ingrained (See Orleander, all my posts here are "on thread." ;) Some seed or nut mentioned in each) in me from my "staving student days" to change and I see no valid reason to try. (I get irrational pleasure when I buy something I need at bargain prices, but spend freely if I want something. Fortunately my material wants are very few.)
-------------------------
*Skip the sugar. I consider sugar, even brown sugar, a mild posion. Mankind did not have any 450 years ago, or earlier when he evolved his insulin production / regulation system to cope with blood sugar levels that were produced from slow break down of complex foods, or the small quanties of sugar in fruit he occasionally found. Eating much larger volumes (typical American eats nearly a pound /day.) of sugar is like playing your finely tuned "insulin system piano" with a hammer. - No wonder type 2 diabetes is only found in richer countries where sugar is eaten in volumes that mankind's system can not properly handle.
**I will experiment with eating it raw, and if good, not bother with the toasting. Obviously nothing very toxic in it for the heat to destroy as my bird loves it raw. (Not 100% proof of safety as bird's system might be different so I will "go easy" on the % raw initially.)

kmguru
02-24-08, 11:30 AM
People do not like to eat variety of rice or wheat etc directly. For example, you could have bought short grain, medium grain and long grain rice say 15 years ago. Now, you can only buy long grain in the local store. It is the Wal-Mart effect where Wal-Mart only stores what is bought at the top of the list and drops the product that comes in second or third.

So, the variety gets smaller and smaller. One solution is that, use the variety to blend or otherwise produce final products. Such as use different Mangos to make the juice. Or use various grains to extract protein.

That way we can maintain the diversity. But who is going to promote this?

Myles
02-24-08, 12:05 PM
Small spread, but a small house too so there's room to plant.
I've managed to squeeze in about 20 fruit trees and six eucalypts, some of my faves, I planted a Sydney bluegum ( shit name for a majestic tree), it grew at 3 metres a year through a wicked drought and I could climb it to a height of 4-5 metres after only a few years. I have a spotted gum which grew even faster and has finally got its spots after 5 years.
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/Spudemperor/wetspottedgums.jpg

These are spotted gums from local forest, incidentally, the fernlike guys in the foreground are the cycads ( Macrozamia communis) which has the poisonous nuts.

My Scribbly gum is yet to get its scribbles but my ironbark is irony ( no particular irony in this comment except that if there was any it would be lost on me anyway) and my peppermint gum is fully pepperminty and my West Australian flowering gum is a mass of deep crimson right on Christmas.

That looks great. I just hope you have enough room for a few tons of potatoes.

Orleander
02-24-08, 12:08 PM
are spotted gums part of the sycamore family? We have some here and the bark looks the same.

S.A.M.
02-24-08, 12:09 PM
Millet was once more inportant than at least wheat (comparable to rice) but is labor intensive to harvest. Some foresighted people working in the Indian agriculture area are trying, with modest success, to get millet returned to the commercial market - mainly via "health food stores," where the higher price will be accepted as millet is more vitamine and mineral rich than wheat. - All in all, millet is a superior cerial food, except for the slightly higher production cost.

We eat millets also as a matter of tradition. e.g. with some vegetable, we like to eat bajra or jowar rotis (breads).

Bajra aka Pearl millet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_millet)

Recipe for bajra roti (http://www.aayisrecipes.com/2007/12/09/pearl-millet-roti-sajje-rotti-bajra-roti/)


http://apssca.ap.nic.in/bajra.jpg

Jowar aka Sorghum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorghum)

Recipe for jowar roti (http://www.aayisrecipes.com/2006/05/31/jowar-rotijolad-rotti-an-easy-way/)

http://www.prabhatseeds.com/jowar-big.jpg


Next to the Wiki text, quoted above, are several photos. One shows the small round light-tan balls (seeds) I speculated were millet in prior "bird post." Now I am sure that millet is the best tasting of about 15 different seeds, if you are a Cockatiel. I will try to get some for testing how they taste to me.

I love the taste of bajra roti, it has a smoky sweet flavor and goes marvelously with garlic chutney (http://www.aayisrecipes.com/2006/08/23/garlic-chutney-powder-losney-chutney-pitto/) or simply with yoghurt.

I also love love love the taste of green jowar, the best way to eat it is pick it fresh, and roast it dry over a slow fire. Or just eat it fresh.

Orleander
02-24-08, 12:13 PM
are cattails part of the millet family?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Typha-cattails-in-indiana.jpg/446px-Typha-cattails-in-indiana.jpg

S.A.M.
02-24-08, 12:24 PM
I think the cattail is a flower, but I may be mistaken

Fraggle Rocker
02-24-08, 12:30 PM
Are spotted gums part of the sycamore family? We have some here and the bark looks the same.Gum trees are eucalypts. There are three genera of eucalypts, Eucalyptus itself, Angophora and Corymbia. "Spotted gum" can refer to four different species of Corymbia.

Gum trees or eucalypts comprise three genera in the immensely prolific order of myrtle trees, which has thousands of species spread over 150 genera. Eucalypts are characterized by aromatic oils, and are called gum trees because many species copiously leak thick sap when wounded. They have evolved to occupy every climate zone and ecological niche in Australia, and in fact no other continent is so well defined by a single type of tree. I'd call them the marsupials of the Plant kingdom.

In most of the world "sycamore" is a name applied to either the giant maple or one species of fig, but in North America it refers to the dozen or so species of the genus Platanus, or "plane trees," of the magnolia order. Magnolias and myrtles are only distantly related.

Myles
02-24-08, 12:33 PM
Hey! Why is your cockatoo in my nuts?!
;)
This is a nut/seed/drupe thread. :p

A cockatoo has no place here. We should be talking about canaries, particular like your husband who eats all those seeds. Do you put a cover over him at night to keep him quiet ? I bet you call him Tweetie Pie, ha, ha

Billy T
02-24-08, 02:01 PM
Hi SAM:

Thanks for the photos and millet related lnks.

I had assumed from fact that in the English translation of the ingredients list of my commercial bird seed bag that has "millet" as the first listed ingredient and fact that the little round* light-tan spherical seeds in bag were most numerous seed there that they were "pearl millet" seeds; however, photo at your link to pearl millet does not show these round spheres. Also the color in your posted sorhgum (aka jowar) photo is nearly the same as my bird's favorate seed.

Is sorhgum a form of millet? both are in the same "family level" (Poaceae)

It seems clear you eat sorhgum raw: " also love love love the taste of green jowar, ... Or just eat it fresh."

Can /do you eat bajra (aka pearl millet) raw too?
------------------
*Not exactly spheres - slightly like an American foot ball in shape, but no flat spots as in the link's photo of "pearl millet."

S.A.M.
02-24-08, 02:15 PM
I had assumed from fact that in the English translation of the ingredients list of my commercial bird seed bag that has "millet" as the first listed ingredient and fact that the little round* light-tan spherical seeds in bag were most numerous seed there that they were "pearl millet" seeds; however, photo at your link to pearl millet does not show these round spheres. Also the color in your posted sorhgum (aka jowar) photo is nearly the same as my bird's favorate seed.


Its very rare for me to have an opportunity to eat raw fresh jowar, like raw fresh wheat, its a luxury that mostly farmers can avail of. Usually we get the flour, when I was younger, we used to buy the seeds and get them milled near our home, now we buy the milled flour in commercial packaging.

Bajra flour turns bitter on keeping and is best used immediately after milling.

Here is a close up of bajra seeds

http://bp3.blogger.com/_JdKen3R4kUQ/Rym8rZnPAQI/AAAAAAAAADk/Ax-WyQuw9Tk/s400/IMG_3682.JPG

Jowar is also available as phaunk, which can be soaked and rehydrated


http://bp0.blogger.com/_F1PSXTvcjzA/RxvvnSjafgI/AAAAAAAAAsw/zM29BuM0S4k/s400/filename-wont-help-you.jpg

Fresh paunk can be served as is but the more popular way is to mix it up like chaat, with some red chilli powder and some salt, a dash of lemon juice, garnished with some spicy sev and cilantro.



Is sorhgum a form of millet? both are in the same "family level" (Poaceae)

Yes.

http://indianfoodrocks.blogspot.com/2007/10/take-chance-on-this.html

Asguard
02-24-08, 02:25 PM
Fraggle Rocker i never realised gum trees existed anywhere else except by introduction

Did you know that gum trees are highly dangirous for 2 reasons
1) they have a habbit of droping limbs for no reason. NEVER set up a tent or park a car under them, they are called "widdow makers" or "widdow trees" for a very good reason.
2) in a bushfire they EXPLODE, the oil in them burns VERY hot which makes them a dangor to everyone fighting them

Fraggle Rocker
02-24-08, 03:34 PM
Fraggle Rocker i never realised gum trees existed anywhere else except by introductionEucalyptus are only native to Australia and a few nearby islands no farther away than the Philippines. But they have been introduced to every continent except Europe and Australia. China and India cultivate them for timber. They thrive in the American Southwest with its Australia-like terrain and climate. Southern Arizona and southern California are covered with them. That inscrutable line in the Eagles' anthem "Hotel California" about the "warm smell of calitas" that people have been trying to interpret for thirty years? I always thought they were saying "eucalyptus" with their Texas accent. I always sang it that way and nobody complained. :)
Did you know that gum trees are highly dangirous for 2 reasons
1) they have a habbit of droping limbs for no reason. NEVER set up a tent or park a car under them, they are called "widdow makers" or "widdow trees" for a very good reason.They were the only big trees around our house in Arizona when I was little. They did occasionally drop a branch. I don't know what species they were but they were very tall and straight without a lot of branches so when one fell it wasn't too heavy. The eucalyptus in California do more branching.
2) in a bushfire they EXPLODE, the oil in them burns VERY hot which makes them a dangor to everyone fighting themI never thought about that but it makes sense. If you call something a "gum tree" it's probably full of "gum" :)

I thought they were also poisonous and only koalas could eat their leaves. That's why if you get close to one he smells like a giant cough drop.

Asguard
02-24-08, 03:53 PM
they are poisiones but they do make great tea:)

you boil a billy over the coals with a gum branch and a couple of tea bags, its DELIOUS:)

As for gums droping branches, they do and they can kill. The worst of it is that they will drop for no reason. Even if its dead still a gum could drop its branches

Have you ever herd the myth of the drop bear?
Its something we tell tourists in order to scare the shit out of them and then we tell them all sorts of nonsience like they have to put vegimite behind there ears to protect themselves and what not. The point is however that the rought of this myth comes from a way to stop people camping under gum trees. It seems every year we here about some nutcase who has set up shop under a gum tree only to have it drop a branch on his head (and by branch i dont mean a couple of twigs, they snap off at the trunk)

Oh and about that "gum" all plants have sap. Its just that the gum trees comes out like a sticky amber. However if you have ever seen tea tree oil (another australian tree) or eucalyptus oil burn you wouldnt forget it. Its VERY flamable, so much so that you can actually put green leaves from the eucalyptus and green branches from the tea tree directly onto a camp fire and they will burn (and burn HOT, i have actually seen flames 1.5m high from a normal sized camp fire because some idiot dumped leaves on it). In a bush fire once the fire gets into the leaves of the gum trees it becomes a fire storm leaping from tree to tree and buring incrediably hot. However its when the trees start exploding your in REAL danger. This is why we sent the US fire fighters a couple of years ago, because the yanks couldnt contain the californian bushfires (they had got into a gum plantation aparently) so we lent you some volenteers who had experiance dealing with gum fires

Oh and if you think im pulling your leg ask bells or james or any other aussie here.

Billy T
02-24-08, 03:55 PM
In Brazil it is illegal to cut down a live native tree. (No problem if you want to get rid of one but next year will be OK - just cut deep grove in it all the way around near the base - trick I learn form my hired man when I had ~ 100 acre cattle farm) A poor ignorant man, who stripped bark from one to make a tea for his sick wife actually went to jail - sentenced by a judge who was less lucky than most as he was exposted for making millions by selling light sentences to drug dealers etc. (In Brazil - you should steal millions to spread around if you want to be sure not to be punished. Latest scandle is the private use of government's charge cards - they have been used for throwing parties, buying suits of clothing, vacation trips for family, etc. - no one will go to jail for that as all are doing it. Yes, that man with the sick wife was ignorant!)

The eucalypts is not a native tree. Huge numbers of them now exist. I own stock in Aracruz, world's largest, (I think) supplier and cheapest (I know) producer of eucalypts fiber pulp (for news papers, cardboard boxes, etc.)

Aracruz has developed them genetically to grow straight up with few branches at the top (height increases two or three meters each year on life time average) and harvested in about 6 or 7 years is economical now. Fiber yield per acre has been doubled in less than two decades. I bet they have taken most of the "gum producing genes" out of their propagation seed stock.

To SAM. thanks again. I ate about a dozen seeds raw. They do taste good, but I am not as skilled as my bird. It spits off two hemispheric very-thin skins. I had to eat all, but the roughage is good for me. At least twice each day I need to blow away these thin skins covering the top of his seed bowl. I actually hold it at arm's length and have a tube to blow thru as do not want to get in lungs or eyes the fine dust he can also make. He is very skilled with that curved beak and tounge.

Orleander
02-24-08, 05:10 PM
A cockatoo has no place here. We should be talking about canaries, particular like your husband who eats all those seeds. Do you put a cover over him at night to keep him quiet ? I bet you call him Tweetie Pie, ha, ha


LOL, birds aren't so odd as to eat the sunflower seed shell. He does.

Spud Emperor
02-25-08, 06:58 AM
. "Spotted gum" can refer to four different species of Corymbia.



The ones in the pic are Corymbia maculata, previously known as Eucalyptus maculata. They are very beautiful and can have trunks ranging in colour from green, brown, pink, white, grey, bluish grey and it seems, nearly everything in between. they deciduate their bark in patches in late spring and summer.

Here's another pic
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/Spudemperor/Spottedgumscolour-1.jpg

New foliage
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/Spudemperor/Closeupgumleafpink-1.jpg

You can tell I'm a fan.
Some can be poisonous at various times of year.
Koalas eat exclusively eucalyptus foliage and often eat psychoactive varieties and sit around stoned out of their tiny minds all day.
They do indeed smell like a cough lollie and when you're walking through the bush and smell the telltale dung, just look up and sure enough there will be one.
The smell of Eucalypt forest has to be experienced to be believed, after rain or on a hot still day the air is completely heady and it's not hard to be feeling a little high on the scent alone. They are highly combustible and live or dead they are still full of oil and burn like crazy. A Eucalypt forest on fire, especially fanned by strong hot winds is a very scary thing. Experienced firefighters still die regularly despite protocols and precautions. Many people tell of the repeated explosions as whole trees ignite in a second.

The variety of Eucalypts is stunning. Their beauty is outstanding ( sometimes it takes years to appreciate, many new arrivals to Australia find them rangy, scraggly and dry looking), there are stark white trunked species growing in the searing outback set against deep blue skies and red rocks, gnarled, twisted multicoloured trunked snowgums in the high country, rainforest giants, ones which smell of citrus, peppermint, massive river redgums which tolerate droughts or years of inundation. Species with silvery grey foliage, species with massed blooms of red, pink or white, diverse and intriguing seed pods. I could go on.
They are a study unto themselves
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc46/Spudemperor/Eucalyptus_caesia_subsp__magna_flow.jpg

Asguard
02-25-08, 07:20 AM
they also have the added benefits. If you have a blocked nose, crush the leaves and inhale and it will clear your head

The oil is the main ingredient in vicks and a lot of cough drops because of this ability

Also for those who think spud and i are exadurating about the bush fires look at these

These are from the sydney bush fires (1994):

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2002/12/05/fires_jonD007,0.jpg

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2002/12/05/fires_jonD006,0.jpg

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:-Na5YnTUqxafdM:http://www.amos.org.au/sydney/photos/bushfire.jpg

Orleander
02-25-08, 07:20 PM
OK, what are hominy and Corn Nuts?

Fraggle Rocker
02-26-08, 05:50 PM
OK, what are hominy and Corn Nuts?Corn (known by its older name "maize" in Britain, where "corn" refers to all grains) is a species of grass, Zea mays. It is the only important grain (or "cereal") native to the New World and its nutritional content is not as high as rice, wheat, and the grains that fed the Old World. It is still the largest agricultural product of our hemisphere.

It was first cultivated in Mexico sometime between 7000BCE and 5500BCE. Although squash had been domesticated earlier, ushering in the Neolithic Revolution with its permanent farming villages, even the meager protein content of corn made a qualitative difference in the number of people an acre of land could support, and the population explosion in the region began.

There are many varieties of the single species of corn and they have been hybridized extensively.

Hominy is corn kernels that have been dried and then treated with an alkali such as lye. The American recipe soaks them in lye water until the hulls can be removed. The Mexican recipe cooks them in lime water, which also removes the germ, which AFAIK is ironically a source of some important nutrients. Hominy was invented in Guatemala more than 3,000 years ago.

Corn nuts were invented in 1936 by Albert Holloway. He prepared them by soaking corn kernels in water for three days and then deep frying them until they were brittle. When he learned of a giant variety of corn grown in Peru he began making his product from this "Cusco" corn. His research led to a hybrid Cusco strain that can be grown in the USA.

Holloway renamed his product CornNuts (with no space). It is now sold by Planters, a subsidiary of Kraft Foods.

Orleander
02-26-08, 05:52 PM
...Hominy is corn kernels that have been dried and then treated with an alkali such as lye. ....

why??? was it a preservative?

Fraggle Rocker
02-26-08, 06:17 PM
why??? was it a preservative?No. The alkali just allows the hulls to be easily separated from the kernels and removed. This makes the kernels more tender, easier to digest and/or process.

I'm the same guy who can't digest oats and I also can't digest corn hulls. I can eat corn flakes and cornbread and other processed corn, but if I eat whole corn or corn on the cob, it just passes right through me whole, a rather uncomfortable and totally pointless experience.

So hominy is perfect for people like me and my wife makes some wonderful Mexican dishes with hominy. (Like chiles rellenos set into a hominy casserole.) But apparently the increased tenderness has made it popular with everybody.

Asguard
02-26-08, 06:21 PM
FR is "corn" the same thing they call corn here?

Ie the little yellow things on a stwak?

If so why would you preserve it, best way to eat it is to buy a fresh corn cob (with the husk still on it) and throw it on the barby or in the oven (or an open fire). It SOOO sweet and juicy:D

Fraggle Rocker
02-26-08, 08:36 PM
FR is "corn" the same thing they call corn here? Ie the little yellow things on a stalk? If so why would you preserve it, best way to eat it is to buy a fresh corn cob (with the husk still on it) and throw it on the barby or in the oven (or an open fire). It SOOO sweet and juicy:DThe Brits call it "maize," most cultures recognize that name even if it's not the one they use. It sounds like you're talking about the same thing. Yellow kernels arranged in rows around a roughly cylindrical "cob," with large leaves wrapped around it. The whole thing is about a foot long.

Served the way you describe it, "on the cob," is popular. The traditional American way to cook it whole is to boil it, but grilling is becoming popular as the country is in the throes of a "let's barbecue everything" fad. But corn is a seasonal crop and fresh corn is not available all year round. When it's out of season you have to eat it canned or frozen.

The alkali is not used as a preservative, but merely to remove the hulls. As I mentioned, some people like myself can't digest whole corn kernels so turning it into hominy by removing the hulls makes it possible for us to eat it at all. Hominy is also smoother and easier to work with.

I'm from the Southwest where we have Mexican traditions so we often eat our corn in other ways. The most ubiquitous is tortillas, which are thin, flat, round patties of corn flour baked or grilled, and served hot to fill the place in the meal which bread occupies in European cuisine. Roll them up with pork or chicken and other ingredients inside to make soft tacos, fill them and fold them in half then deep fry them to make hard tacos, completely enclose the filling and cover them with salsa and cook them that way to make enchiladas, the recipes are endless. Tamales are made by rolling pork, chicken or cheese in a thick corn flour (masa), wrapping the whole thing in a couple of corn leaves, tying it up with string and steaming a pot full of them for an hour or so. There are also smaller, thicker corn tortillas called gorditas that are stuffed with hot filling. Tortillas are also eaten as a side dish like bread, with salsa or butter.

You can also use goat meat, which is incredibly tender, if you can get it. People in Texas make Mexican recipes with beef instead of pork because they are cattle ranchers, but that's not very authentic, not half as tasty, and we call it "Tex-Mex." (To be fair they also raise cattle in the northeastern states of Mexico that are close to Texas, but many Mexicans can't afford to eat beef.)

Hominy is a common ingredient in more elaborate Mexican dishes. The ones I've described are simple and easy (although labor-intensive) and the staples of fast food joints.

Larger, sturdier tortillas can be made out of wheat flour, and are filled and rolled over on the ends to make burritos. Of course Mexicans also eat bread and wheat-flour pastry.

Since corn is our native grain in America we eat it in many ways. Highly processed corn flakes are a popular breakfast cereal, cornmeal bread or "cornbread" is a side dish with butter and honey, and hominy "grits" is a Southeastern dish I've never tried.

We use cornmeal to dredge chicken or fish for deep frying. One of my favorite meals is deep fried catfish with "hush puppies," which are blobs of the extra corn batter deep fried by themselves. Legend says they're called that because fisherman would fry up the remnants of their batter and give it to their dogs after their own meal to settle them down.

Asguard
02-26-08, 09:07 PM
have you ever had creamed corn? Its kind of like baby food:p but it tastes delicious in jaffles:D

Fraggle Rocker
02-26-08, 09:13 PM
have you ever had creamed corn? Its kind of like baby food. . . .It is baby food. :)

Asguard
02-26-08, 09:17 PM
tates nice though:p

OH and BBQ's are our culture so dont knock them:p
they are about all we have:p

Walter L. Wagner
02-26-08, 09:36 PM
Corn (known by its older name "maize" in Britain, where "corn" refers to all grains) is a species of grass, Zea mays. It is the only important grain (or "cereal") native to the New World and its nutritional content is not as high as rice, wheat, and the grains that fed the Old World. It is still the largest agricultural product of our hemisphere.

It was first cultivated in Mexico sometime between 7000BCE and 5500BCE. Although squash had been domesticated earlier, ushering in the Neolithic Revolution with its permanent farming villages, even the meager protein content of corn made a qualitative difference in the number of people an acre of land could support, and the population explosion in the region began.


Popcorn originated in Mesoamerica not long after corn was domesticated. "Popping corn 'ears' that are 5600 years old have been found in New Mexico." http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_the_first_popcorn_seed_evolve_as_life_beca me_what_it_is_today

I'm sure that there are other and better references. I read 30 years ago that popcorn ears were dated to 4,000 years before present.

I'm wondering how much popcorn was being grown compared to regular eating corn.

Orleander
02-27-08, 09:23 AM
have you ever had creamed corn? Its kind of like baby food:p but it tastes delicious in jaffles:D

what's a jaffle?
I use it in soup and cornbread.

Asguard
02-27-08, 09:28 AM
its like a toasted sandwige but with slight differences

Firstly the bread is buttered on the outside (to stop it sticking)
Secondly its put in a press that crushes it into a triangle

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/Sandwich_toaster_open.jpg/250px-Sandwich_toaster_open.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Jaffles_01_Pengo.jpg/250px-Jaffles_01_Pengo.jpg

S.A.M.
02-29-08, 08:17 AM
Moderator Note:

Posts on koala dung etc split into new thread:

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=78218

Spud Emperor
02-29-08, 08:23 AM
Koala turds often contain seeds and a whole new tree can grow from a single cigar.

Now about cockatoos.
Orleander loves a cockatoo.

Where to from here S.A.M?

Fraggle Rocker
02-29-08, 05:34 PM
Koala turds often contain seeds and a whole new tree can grow from a single cigar. Now about cockatoos. Orleander loves a cockatoo.To keep the thread on topic while still replying to this post... :)

Cockatoos and most psittacines, as well as many if not most other species of birds, love fruit. So do other species of animals. In fact, the development of angiosperms (plants that reproduce by extruding flowers which generally turn into fruits with seeds inside) triggered the evolution of entire new types of animals which were adapted to climbing trees (or flying up into them) and obtaining fruit. Primates come to mind, we evolved from sloths which evolved from shrews, which were one of the very first mammals that had the ability to climb trees. Flying insects also proliferated in the age of angiosperms.

Having their fruits eaten was a tremendous advantage for the angiosperms. While of course some species of animals eventually evolved that could break open the seed hulls and digest the contents, most cannot--or don't bother because it's too much work. Animals that eat fruit wander off and defecate, often quite a distance from the parent tree or other plant. This spreads the seeds much farther than falling or even being blown by the wind, and allows plant species to colonize new areas to find out whether they're hospitable.

Birds are obviously the best at this since their flights cover a lot of area and they often defecate from the air, spreading the seeds over a larger patch of ground so one of them might germinate. I don't know about cockatoos because as far as I know there are no feral colonies of them in America, but the colonies of other species of feral parrots in the Los Angeles region, such as Amazons and conures, have territories that cover many square miles--more than one city. A conure could eat the fruit from the cultivated tropical ornamental tree in a suburban yard in Sierra Madre and dump the seeds in a vacant lot in El Monte, spreading the range of the species as birds have been doing for tens of millions of years.

Orleander
02-29-08, 09:18 PM
so is it thanks to squirrels that there are so many oak trees? I mean, do they really bury acorns all over the place?