Nietzsche's book the Genealogy of morals says that morals such as honesty have their origins in the underclass, or slave culture. Does he say that this is an attempt to break their bondage by using 'God' to scare their masters or does he say that the thought of honesty being good was passed down by the masters to keep the slaves in their place and this value (honesty) will be passed down through the families. Surely Honesty itself serves to humiliate the possesor because they then reveal embarassing and private information to others because of the belief that they should be 'honest': they believe that honesty is good.

does he say that the thought of honesty being good was passed down by the masters to keep the slaves in their place and this value (honesty) will be passed down through the families.

I think this is what he was trying to say. I could be wrong though.

they believe that honesty is good.

I believe honesty is good. But its probably because I was brought up to believe that:confused:

I agree with you stargirl! If Jesus thought this too (obviously before Nietzche realised this) then his method to overthrow the 'rulers' was complete honesty because there is no way they could fight him: they had told them that honest is what they must be. If he was 100% honest then the people he encountered would be amazed at his complete honesty (he could have told people such extremely private things (maybe made a joke out of them) when they felt like they were dying in the desert that he 'turned the water into wine': they really enjoyed themselves. Now he was 100% honest yet the ruling class still killed him: he died to show us that the ruling class were lying, and so he set us free. The Bible also describes a black-man so it is highly likely that his ancestors (and therefore probably even himself) had been ascribed these values. Either he knew all of this and was extremely clever or he didnt question the value at all and was just 100% honest because this is what he had been taught and so was dumb. A lot of messages in the bible tell us to question what we are taught though!!

A lot of messages in the bible tell us to question what we are taught though!!

True dat!

Here is a section of an article written on Nietzsche. Hope it helps:



One of Nietzsche’s fundamental contentions was that traditional values (represented primarily by Christianity) had lost their power in the lives of individuals. He expressed this in his proclamation “God is dead.” He was convinced that traditional values represented a “slave morality,” a morality created by weak and resentful individuals who encouraged such behavior as gentleness and kindness because the behavior served their interests. Nietzsche claimed that new values could be created to replace the traditional ones, and his discussion of the possibility led to his concept of the overman or superman.According to Nietzsche, the masses (whom he termed the herd or mob) conform to tradition, whereas his ideal overman is secure, independent, and highly individualistic. The overman feels deeply, but his passions are rationally controlled. Concentrating on the real world, rather than on the rewards of the next world promised by religion, the overman affirms life, including the suffering and pain that accompany human existence. Nietzsche’s overman is a creator of values, a creator of a “master morality” that reflects the strength and independence of one who is liberated from all values, except those that he deems valid.

Nietzsche maintained that all human behavior is motivated by the will to power. In its positive sense, the will to power is not simply power over others, but the power over oneself that is necessary for creativity. Such power is manifested in the overman's independence, creativity, and originality. Although Nietzsche explicitly denied that any overmen had yet arisen, he mentions several individuals who could serve as models. Among these models he lists Jesus, Greek philosopher Socrates, Florentine thinker Leonardo da Vinci, Italian artist Michelangelo, English playwright William Shakespeare, German author Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Roman ruler Julius Caesar, and French emperor Napoleon I.

The concept of the overman has often been interpreted as one that postulates a master-slave society and has been identified with totalitarian philosophies. Many scholars deny the connection and attribute it to misinterpretation of Nietzsche's work

Neville,

I am curious, is Genealogy of Morals the only
book by Nietzsche that you have read? Are
you familiar with any of his other writings?

I havent even read that Evilpoet. I only got to about pg.9. I had it explained to me though in a philosophy class (it was explained first and thats why i decided to read it actually). Why?

Thanks for the article stargirl. :)

Like I said - I was just curious. Thanks
for the reply, much appreciated. :)

Its the only one Evilpoet. What others would you recommend and what do they say? (summary only please! :D )

What would I recommend? I would recommend you ask Xev
any questions that are Nietzsche related. IMO she knows a
lot more about Nietzsche and his writings than I do. :)

Need-she?
heh heh.

you'r all gonna kill me, but i think nietzche was all wrong. i'd like to think there is more to man than just a barbaric beast, striving to be the overman. But i could be wrong just as easily.

you'r all gonna kill me, but i think nietzche was all wrong. i'd like to think there is more to man than just a barbaric beast, striving to be the overman. But i could be wrong just as easily.

Huh? I think you're confused on the concept of overman.

I recommend - "Thus spoke Zarathustra"
it's a great work

Honesty functions not in the service of humiliation, but rather as an arrogant assertion of righteousness. Through the frank and stark revelation of self the individual seeks to secure and lay claim to their right to exist. It is never an apology for things the individual has done; instead it is the plateau upon which they base that which they will do. Honesty is of the greatest value in man's struggle with man, for it is from our experience of honesty that we derive the highest of human goal's - Truth. It is thus the most powerful tool in man's will to dominion - man's desire to become what he believes he should be, as opposed to what he is. Honesty thus is simultaneously the assertion of the self as it is and its rejection: it is acceptance of the self as it is in itself, and rejection of self as related to others.

Huh? I think you're confused on the concept of overman.

probably. we discussed it in my philosophy class and thats the impression i got about it. you'll have to forgive my ignorance, i'm only in high school philosophy. ;) It just seems that he was a pretty pessimistic guy. Though i respect the balls he had to go against all the ideas of his day. 100 years earlier, he woulda been hanged for saying "god is dead".

Nietzsche? A moron.

ALL HAIL NIETZSCHE!!!

Originally posted by reformedtopunk
probably. we discussed it in my philosophy class and thats the impression i got about it. you'll have to forgive my ignorance, i'm only in high school philosophy. ;) It just seems that he was a pretty pessimistic guy. Though i respect the balls he had to go against all the ideas of his day. 100 years earlier, he woulda been hanged for saying "god is dead".

Nietzsche is very optimistic
you should read more
he is optimistic realist
that is- he has no optimism for todays society, he bases his hope in the future

Nietzsche had some great ideas. Mainly, he saw through the facade of the Semitic religions, namely Christianity.