Any mythology basically has 3 functions:
1) The Philosophical (world viewing)
2) The Cosmological (world knowing)
3) The Sociological (living in the world)

But, if just one factor changes dramatically, the whole thing starts to break apart.
From the start of the scientific-industrial revolution in the 19th century our world has changed tremendously in a very short time.

We now know a lot more about Cosmology, so the 3 level universe doesn't work any more.
Because of the technological progress, our society has changed too and the world we live in. This is the information age, where instant communications and freedom to share information is unprecedented.

The result is that, as I said, many of the old mythologies are not working,
except maybe Buddhism and, though less, upanishadic Hinduism which are in tune with our current scientific understanding of the world.

But human can not live without a mythology, it's a part of how our brain interprets the world, makes sense of it. And it's a tool that has shaped our societies and civilizations since the earliest times.

So what do you think might be the beginnings of new, forming mythologies today?

One thing that comes into mind is the Eco movement, global climate change, awarness of cause and effect that we have on our planet. So I predict some return to the Earth goddess mythology, but not in a religious manner - more philosophycal, ethical.

One more thing is space exploration. We will probably detect exoterrestrial life form in the next 100 years. We have seen our planet as a heavenly object from other space floating bodies. We will probably have a scientific lab on the Moon and Mars.
That means that the question about our place in the universe will become more pressing, and old myths can't deal with that. Maybe except Buddhism, because it is universal.
So there will probably appear some mythology on the unity and one goal of manking and it's place in the universe.

What else?

Buddhism unites believes by having humans in place in the universe.

As for the new myths coming forth...consider this as possibility. Humans settle on Mars, Earth gets destroyed from nukes, Martians than wage war and set back into early ages...sort of like Dark Ages and than come out of a new myth...that life might have come from Earth...seeded by Earth, Mars bloomed =)

Buddhism unites believes by having humans in place in the universe

Please speak English! :D I don't understand. Besides this is not really a thread about Buddhism.

Please speak English! :D I don't understand. Besides this is not really a thread about Buddhism.

well I edited the reply...but, what question are you posing here? What myths will develop and which myths will crumble? :bugeye:

John Henry
Casey Jones
Mohandas Gandhi
Nelson Mandella
Louis Farrakhan
Malcom X
Dr Martin Luther King Jr.

The heroes of today are the mythologies of tomorrow.

John Henry
Casey Jones
Mohandas Ghandi
Nelson Mandella
Louis Farrakhan
Malcom X
Dr Martin Luther King Jr.

The heroes of today are the mythologies of tomorrow.

hmmm....if such goes than everything will become a myth, all past. Bush in Iraq, snooping for WMD's? a myth. Hitler and death of 6 mil Jews? a myth...
Me being alive and the first astronaut on Mars? a myth....:shrug:

hmmm....if such goes than everything will become a myth, all past. Bush in Iraq, snooping for WMD's? a myth. Hitler and death of 6 mil Jews? a myth...
Me being alive and the first astronaut on Mars? a myth....:shrug:

Exactly.

How tall was Napoleon?
Did Marie Antinette say, "Let them eat cake"? If she did, was she being cruel or sheltered?
Did Kennedy sleep with Marilyn Monroe? Who killed him?
Did John Henry beat the machine?

What is fact?
What is history?
What is myth?

Just a few thoughts before crashing to bed.

I remember reading in some book that many heroes what many people thought to be real are a later day creaton, i.e., mythologies often create their heroes.
And many myths have historical persons from different centures participating in one mythhistorical event. I don't remember particular ones, but examples were mentioned in the book - mainly medieval myths.

Of course that doesn't mean that many heroes of mythologies aren't based on real persons, but the events and dates change.

Another thing: I have no idea who 4 of the 7 people you mentioned are, but I probably am aware of some of their ideas that have seeped into our society.

"Generations to come, it may well be, will scarce believe that such a man as this [Gandhi], ever in flesh and blood, walked upon this earth."-Albert Einstein

Another thing: I have no idea who 4 of the 7 people you mentioned are, but I probably am aware of some of their ideas that have seeped into our society.

:eek: Really?
Which four?

:eek: Really?
Which four?

Louis Farrakhan, Casey Jones, John Henry, Nelson Mandella

Exactly.

How tall was Napoleon?
Did Marie Antinette say, "Let them eat cake"? If she did, was she being cruel or sheltered?
Did Kennedy sleep with Marilyn Monroe? Who killed him?
Did John Henry beat the machine?

What is fact?
What is history?
What is myth?

Yes, that is so, but those aren't mythologies, just mythical/myth like events.
Please see my first post. Mythology is more than one event, it's a system that combines at least those three ingredients.

It has its heroes, sure, but that's only one little aspect.

:eek: Really?
Which four?

John Henry, Casey Jones, Louis Farrakhan, Malcom X.

Yes, that is so, but those aren't mythologies, just mythical/myth like events.

But if you add up a number of myth like events, you end up with Jesus.

But if you add up a number of myth like events, you end up with Jesus.

Jesus alone is not christianity. You have to count in all the rituals they got from the jews and greeks, scriptures and ideas from judaism, structure of the church, organisation, priesthood, various saints interpreting christianity, etc, etc.
I bet more than a few of the new testament events were created long after the death of Jesus by the followers of Jesus.

Of course I am not saying that one man can't create a religion (scientology for example), just that mythology is more than a set of mythological events,
those events have to be put into a logical system and that system has to be applied.
Otherwise it's just a story, a tale.

Just imho.

If you try to form a new religion, you will only get the opposition of the old established religions, and you will cause more disagreement ammong the people.
So instead of creating a new religious movement, why not the unification of spirituality? Universal acceptance? We all can live together, we just don´t know it yet.

Please read the first post. I am not talking about creating a new religion,
I am talking about Mythologies that form anew naturally. And mythology is not necessarily a religion.

Please read the first post. I am not talking about creating a new religion,
I am talking about Mythologies that form anew naturally. And mythology is not necessarily a religion.

my bad

So what do you think might be the beginnings of new, forming mythologies today?




I don't think you can create a mythology that is thought of as a mythology - the way westerners tend to use the word - by the 'believers'. It will always have an as if quality.

I also do not think that scientific cosmological explanations preclude non-scientific ones, in fact some scientific ideas come to in the 20 century had a better fit with religious cosmology in certain particulars than with former scientific models. Big Bang vs. Steady state, for example. Also portions of QM challenge older scientific criticisms of religion based on locality, retriction of effects, time, dimensions and so on.

The eco environment movement certainly seems to be on the way of becoming a full blown mythology.
They already have their scriptures, prophets, myths, science, antagonists, etc.

p.s. As I said, I'm not talking about creating a mythology, but about the new mythologies that form "naturally".
I also do not think that scientific cosmological explanations preclude non-scientific ones
Good. I do not think like that too. ;)

Have you ever read - joseph campbell - the hero with a thousand faces?

It basically runs you through a heap of ancient myths to show that they all contain the exact same archetypes - hero goes on quest, is tested at some point in his journey, comes across a wise man to guide him along the way, defeats 'enemy', returns home.
Interesting, (and it sort of feeds into one of your main questions) George Lucas always cited the hero with a thousand faces as the book that formed the template for the star-wars epics.
So essentially, we're still telling the exact same stories to this day, only now its through giant multi-plexes rather than the oral tradition.
And im sure in a thousand years time someone will unearth a copy of star wars and think 'fooking hell, look at all the adventures they got up to!'

Hopefully they'll stumble across the original trilogy mind, otherwise theyre condemn us for eternity for hanging round with pointless creatures like jar jar binks.

I have read "The hero with a thousand faces", it's one of my favourite books.

Well I edited the reply...Buddhism unites believes by having humans in place in the universe.You didn't edit it sufficiently. What do you mean by "Buddhism unites believes..."? Perhaps you meant to say "Buddhism unites beliefs"?Louis Farrakhan, Casey Jones, John Henry, Nelson Mandela, Malcom X.Louis Farrakhan 1933-, American, mother immigrated from St. Kitts and Nevis. Well-educated and highly talented musician, poised to become America's preeminent calypso singer--a light-hearted, heavily syncopated style of pop music from Trinidad wildly popular in America in the 1950s. In 1955 he joined the Nation of Islam, a black American movement whose Islamic identity is highly controversial among mainstream Muslims. Its leader adhered to the Islamic fundamentalist tenet that music is immoral and demanded that all musicians in the movement cease playing. Farrakhan turned down a $25,000 per year contract (equivalent to $250,000 in today's money) and stayed with the movement. As a result, Jamaican-American Harry Belafonte became America's calypso superstar and the music became mistakenly associated with Jamaica. This inspired Jamaican musicians to invent reggae so they could have a national music of their own, so Farrakhan can be seen as the catalyst responsible for the birth of reggae, one of the most socially important musical genres of the late 20th Century. Farrakhan is now a leader of the "Black Muslim" movement. His many crassly racist statements, particularly anti-Semitic ones, have earned him derision and outright hatred outside the movement, e.g. "Hitler was a great man." He has attempted to clean up his image, including resuming his career as a violinist, specifically playing music of Mendelssohn, a Jewish convert to Christianity. He is highly controversial among Americans of all colors, and--with other notorious figures such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson--widely credited as a force holding back the integration of America, by going against its principles and establishing a distinct community based solely on skin color.

Casey Jones, 1863-1900, American. A locomotive engineer, he refused to jump from the cab of his steam locomotive when he realized that his passenger train was going to collide with a stopped freight train; he ordered his fireman to jump. With no automated controls, he held the brake lever and slowed the train down until it hit, sacrificing his life so that none of his passengers were killed. The collision had many causes, one of which was the fact that Jones was travelling at 70mph to make up for a schedule delay. A friend wrote a song about him that became quite popular; it is now an American folk song and Casey Jones is an American hero.

John Henry. A mythical American figure of the mid-19th Century, generally depicted as a black man, often a slave or former slave, possibly an amalgamation of several real men. John Henry used a hammer and brute force to break up rocks and build tunnels for the railroads that would ultimately turn America into the world's leading industrial nation. Railroads figure prominently in American folklore and many of our folk songs, such as "Casey Jones" and "John Henry" are about them. A mechanical hammer driven by steam power was invented at this time. John Henry supposedly entered a contest with a steam hammer, and as the legend goes he "died with my hammer in my hand" attempting to prove that a human could do better work than a machine.

Nelson Mandela, 1918-2003. Thembu people of South Africa. First democratically elected president of South Africa. During the era of apartheid (racial segregation), he was a follower of Gandhi and a leader of the movement to end minority white rule. However he did not refuse to use violence and spent 27 years in prison. As a real human being he was far from perfect and his life was marked by many controversies including a connection to "blood diamonds," but nonetheless he was awarded a Nobel Prize. After retiring in 1999 he became an AIDS activist in a country whose population is one of the world's hardest-hit, and he was also an outspoken critic of George Bush and the Iraq war. Although he had no connection to America he is a hero to many black Americans and probably to all Americans of left-liberal politics.

Malcolm X, 1925-1965, American. His Wikipedia entry begs for a cleanup, but speaking from memory I call him a popular and notorious figure in the Black Muslim movement during its peak of controversy and tumult in the early 1960s. It seemed to me that he was in the newspaper headlines almost every week. With a record of violence and other criminal activities, he had his own vision for a path out of America's racial inequities. In 1964 he broke with the Nation of Islam, made a pilgrimage to Mecca, and converted to mainstream Sunni Islam. He was assassinated upon his return to the USA.Have you ever read - Joseph Campbell - The Hero with a Thousand Faces?My wife is a great fan of Joseph Campbell and read much of his work for her master's thesis, in which she took a Jungian approach to the novels of Gabriel García Márquez. We had the privilege of attending one of his speaking engagements before he died and that book is still on her desk.

An audience member asked him what the myth of our era was and he replied "money." This is true on two levels. Economics is today's predominant philosophy, replacing psychology which reigned for decades and had beat out science, which itself had slowly displaced religion. In addition, money itself can be regarded as mythical, since in a sense it is not real: it "exists" only because we all agree that it does.

It basically runs you through a heap of ancient myths to show that they all contain the exact same archetypes.Archetypes: motifs that exist in almost every society in almost every era. Stories, visual images, beliefs, fears. Elements of the "collective unconscious" that show up in our dreams and our literature.

Clearly they are a type of instinct, preprogrammed into our brains. A fatalist would say they're an accident of a genetic bottleneck, a coincidence of synapses that happened to be wired that way in Lucy or one of our common ancestors. Other scientists would say they are a relic of an era in which, for reasons we can't understand, they were survival traits, so that only the people who had them lived on to be our ancestors. Or you could say that they are spirits goddess breathes into us on our way down the birth canal. It doesn't matter, they're there and to us they're real. :)

Oh, good, then the 4 I didn't know were Americans with relevance only in local culture.
An audience member asked him what the myth of our era was and he replied "money." This is true on two levels. Economics is today's ruling mythology, replacing psychology which reigned for decades and had beat out science, which itself had slowly displaced religion. In addition, money itself can be regarded as mythical, since in a sense it is not real: it "exists" only because we all agree that it does.
Thanks! :)

Oh, good, then the 4 I didn't know were Americans with relevance only in local culture. I would argue that Farrakan was an important influence on world culture. His decision to become an Islamic fundamentalist and foreswear music was responsible for the birth of reggae. Reggae has revived the role of music as social commentary, which rock and roll dropped after the 1960s.

Of course this is a historical accident that is not widely publicized. I didn't even know about it until I was researching his life for my post. And the Wikipedia article didn't even pick up on the connection to reggae. Few people outside the music business know that reggae was deliberately crafted by Bob Marley and his friends, in order to give Jamaica its own national music and stop being identified with calypso. It did not evolve naturally.

And this is all relevant to a discussion of religion, of course, because reggae was adopted as the music of the Rastafarians. :)