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View Full Version : Nazism and capitalism
fadingCaptain 05-22-07, 04:35 PM Nazi ideology is usually described (among many other things) as anti-capitalist. What did they oppose about capitalism? I know it was related to anti-semitism, but was this all there was to it? Didn't they work hand in hand with big business? They were very clear about their opposition to communism, but did they speak/act out against capitalism?
I can't find much out on the web....
one_raven 05-22-07, 04:38 PM In Capitalism, the market and demand determine governmental policy.
Hitler's Naziism was an authoritarian, despotic regime.
one_raven 05-22-07, 04:40 PM Socialism, as well (if that's what his ideal really was) is a sytem in which the needs of the people, not the whims of the market, determine policy.
nietzschefan 05-22-07, 04:53 PM Quite a few industrialists got very rich in Germany under Nazis(Krump,BMW to name a couple off the top). Many are still in operation. As long as you towed National socialism you could make big bucks.
fadingCaptain 05-22-07, 04:55 PM That makes sense. Did they take over business or otherwise hijack the market? I know they shut down jewish businesses but I've never seen anything else.
I don't think he was a socialist. He was a nationalist. The needs of the state were important, not necessarily the needs of the people. I always saw "National Socialism" as a way of co-opting the name of socialism while outright rejecting it. Perhaps I am way off mark.
redarmy11 05-22-07, 05:08 PM It had some anti-capitalist hallmarks, as set out in the 25-point plan:
The 25-point plan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program
9. All citizens must have equal rights and obligations (NB: this applies only to those who have 'German blood'. Jews were explicitly excluded).
10. The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all Consequently we demand:
11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.
12. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
13. We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
15. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
17. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.
19. We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.
20. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
21. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.
25. For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.
As you've noted though it wasn't really anti-capitalist as such, but was more interested in controlling (as opposed to abolishing) private initiatives in the national interest, with the advice and assistance of bankers and major capitalist players. An informative article on the subject:
http://www.geocities.com/~johngray/wcon307.htm
one_raven 05-22-07, 05:11 PM I always saw "National Socialism" as a way of co-opting the name of socialism while outright rejecting it. Perhaps I am way off mark.
I don't think so at all.
I completely agree.
It was a marketing strategy to gather the will of the people behind the movement.
Nikelodeon 05-22-07, 06:52 PM Socialism was quite popular in those days I think, thats one of the main reasons why they included it in their title.
iceaura 05-22-07, 07:43 PM According to Mussolini, fascism is essentially a unification of capitalism and government, whereby the government is employed by captialists in their interests. Government serves, and is controlled by, corporations.
So the shorthand becomes: In Communism the government owns the corporations. In Fascism the corporations own the government.
We are speaking only of Authoritarian forms of those respective ideologies, of course. The owners,in each case, control the citizenry.
Socialism then becomes a middle ground, wherein the government owns some things and not others, and the corporations are sometimes served by government and sometimes of service to it, according to the desires of the citizenry,
who play off the owners against each other and thereby control them.
Socialism is then a style of application and choice among various ideologies, rather than an ideology of its own.
fadingCaptain 05-23-07, 10:10 AM Thanks for that link redarmy. Interesting stuff iceaura.
one_raven 05-23-07, 10:35 AM Socialism then becomes a middle ground, wherein the government owns some things and not others, and the corporations are sometimes served by government and sometimes of service to it, according to the desires of the citizenry, who play off the owners against each other and thereby control them.
I was with you up until here.
This is not an accurate depiction of Socialism.
In Socialism, the government owns/controls all industry and all means of production.
Government policy is driven by the needs of the people.
Socialism is then a style of application and choice among various ideologies, rather than an ideology of its own.
Nonsense.
iceaura 05-23-07, 06:33 PM In Socialism, the government owns/controls all industry and all means of production. If you insist.
But people keep calling Sweden and Germany and Finland and such "socialist". I don't think your definition is popular.
And we did want to differentiate it from totalitarian communism, right?
In my version, a Socialist government has the right, in principle, to own anything, and the obligation to own and manage some things (in which markets cannot be set up, say) - but may choose not to, hopefully as directed by the consent of the governed, and instead set up a market and private ownership where advantageous.
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