Let me know what you think: Should the demands of national security supercede conflicting claims of individual rights when the US is engaged in military conflict?Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
No. Without individual rights our government becomes the people that we're lead to believe we're fighting. The infatuated nightmares we see on tv are unreal (if only hyped from something similar), but without what this country was built on we become only hypocrits.
Hell no. I'm with Pollux on this one. I wouldn't wan't to live in a place where someone could take away your rights - Just because. ALthough there are isolated cases where legitimate suspicions can mean the difference between life or death. And I think legitamite suspicions are acceptable.
"To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists, for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve." - John Ashcroft "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." - Hermann Goering, Nazi leader, at the Nuremberg Trials What group will be most affected by this loss of rights? The under-thirty crowd. Angsty youth with their Ideas and Independence are the most dangerous group, and any punk who thinks different better watch out. Big Brother is watching the nation more closely than ever. New technology scans faces at the airport for potential suspects. Government agencies tap phone lines on a whim. Spooks in cheap suits can dig through the e-mails at your Internet service provider. The Patriot Act, coupled with changes taken unilaterally by the administration, allow the government to: Monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigation. Close once-public immigration hearings, secretly hold hundreds of people without charges, and encourage bureaucrats to resist public records requests. Prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation. Monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes. Search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation. Jail Americans indefinitely without a trial and deny them the right to confront witnesses against them. If the government claims, no evidence required, that someone is involved in terrorist activities, they can do whatever they wish. We’ve all seen it on the news. I still haven't found the definition of "terrorist activity" but I'm willing to bet it's pretty broad. This age of terrorism directed towards Americans at home is creepy, but having Bush at the helm, with his flunky Ashcroft screaming to detain everyone that looks or acts different, is far creepier. The September 11th attacks were scary, but the scariest times lie ahead, not through fear of terrorism, but fear of my own Government. Peace. --- Edit: spelling --- _____________ Youth is the first victim of war - the first fruit of peace. It takes 20 years or more of peace to make a man; it takes only 20 seconds of war to destroy him. -- King Boudewijn I, King of Belgium (1934-1993)
Note the name of the act Nationalism is key, here. They will take away our rights and we will love them for it. There's a little bit of the movie 'Gladiator,' for anyone else who loves that movie as much as I do. I make this comparison because in the particular scene two Roman politicians are discussing the recent games that the new emperor has set forth. As they're talking the workers of the coliseum begin tossing bread to the people in the audience. This is exactly what is happening now. The carpet is being pulled out from under our feet. President Bush and his advisors are working patriotism and nationalism to the very limit, working in tandem with the media to have people love america, and then associate that love with the oppression they are creating. I keep thinking it, so I'm going to say it: The real evil is only beginning, and I fear that a new dictator, possibly Bush, maybe someone else, but a new man will take hold of our freedomless government and plunge the United States into another war with the world, all the time with a huge majority of the people rooting him on and sacrificing themselves for an ideal that no longer exists.
But without national security, we wouldn't have individual rights in the first place. Wouldn't we want to put security first, be safe, then think about the freedoms that we have if we are safe? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I do not think, laws are changing drastically under the terrorism scenario. We already have laws to fight illegal drug activities - now it is expanding to all citizens. Only the profile is changing at a lower level. It used to be Black Americans, Now it is both Black Americans and all black haired people. But if you think, you are safe because you are blonde and blue eyed, you may be wrong. The law does not discriminate race. The same law applies to you too, if the king's henchmen wish to... I wonder what the white immigrants were running from, when they came here? Low level terrorism is here to stay, that means we may have to rewrite the meaning of freedom - since this is the end of line.
Re: Re: National Security vs. Individual Rights Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!SO right..... goofyfish, it had to be said twice. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Sir, I am not over-stating in my saying that this is "wonderful." Not only do I agree, but I also applaud your construction of this piece of literary work. Well done goofyfish. With only the exception of a few writers at Sciforums, have I ever read such brilliant & concise work. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I am sorry to say thay I haven't read much of your previous writings, but I will--after reading this. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
The scope of that Patriot Act indicates that the U.S. coporate/government is paranoid. That usually is the first recognizable signals of disintegration. Perhaps there will be some meaningful change towards a just society in our lifetime after all.
Then, maybe I should rephrase: How much freedom are we willing to give for security? I mean, what extent is too much? We can't run around doing whatever we want to do, there have to be some laws, but there can't be too many. How much is too many?
Did you know that, if one wishes to have order, you can't really have a free country? In a real free country, you'd be able to murder anybody without punishment. However that isn't my point. The feds already took it too far a long time ago. Outlawing things like drugs for people under adult age (or secondary adult age, 21) are alright, but things such as prohibition, outlawing marijuana, cocaine, etc. are not acceptable. There are arguments for making these legal, I'll get to that in my next post. Now, the feds have passed new laws in the name of freedom and justice that actually are against freedom and justice, but rather for a highly controlled environment run by a dictator and his cronies, as well as unfairness. If Bush's team decided I was evil because I'm an Atheist, they could tell the nation I was a terrorist working for al Qaeda, saying that they have sufficient evidence but that it is classified. They could then take me to high security military facility just outside of Washington, deny me food, water, a lawyer. Then, they might even torture me-- perhaps slice my nose off, slicing the skin off my fingers, chopping off digits one by one, then chopping off hands and feet, then the arms from the elbows to the ends, the legs from the knees down, then the arms from the shoulders down, and the legs from the pelvis down. Then, they might proceed to dismember my member, slice open my body and take out my intestines and stomach, tie the intestines to a post and carry me around and around it, remove my ears, slowly gauge out my eyes one by one, burn my nipples severely, then sever them, break all my remaining bones, and boil me in a pot... sounds pleasant, no?
