I see the US NDOP is coming around again.

From the official website, http://www.nationaldayofprayer.org/

this nonsense:

Prayer for America
Written by Lloyd Ogilvie
Chaplain, United States Senate

Gracious God, all that we have and are is a result of Your amazing generosity. Since September 11th, in the battle against terrorism, we have discovered again that You truly are our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble.

We rededicate ourselves to be one nation under You. In You we trust. We reaffirm our accountability to You, to the absolutes of Your Commandments, and to justice in our society.

Bless our President, Congress, and all our leaders with supernatural power. We commit ourselves to be faithful to You as Sovereign of our land and as our personal Lord and Savior.

Amen.


I also see that Jesse Ventura is recognising the event...is disappointing, I thought he was an atheist.

http://www.nationaldayofprayer.org/media/Govt_Proclamations_Cert.cfm?state=Minnesota

To me, this whole thing is ridiculous, and an insult to people of different faiths other than christianity and people of no faith.

Glad we don't have this stupid event in Australia.

No kidding.

And besides, if God all this refuge crap they spew out, then where the hell was he on Sept. 11? Was he on the can or something? Could he just not be there?

I find it very strange that Chrisitans could praise God about being ever-merciful and loving, when apparently he doesn't really care.

I'be said it once in other threads, but God is doing a piss-poor job at displaying his all-loving nature. I'll praise something when it warrants praiseing.

Tinker:
And besides, if God all this refuge crap they spew out, then where the hell was he on Sept. 11? Was he on the can or something? Could he just not be there?

INFIDEL! INFIDEL! INFIDEL!

JERRY FALWELL: And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way - all of them who have tried to secularize America - I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, I totally concur, and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government. And so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do. And, the top people, of course, is the court system.courtesy of Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/falwell.htm )

God is mad - has simply gone mad with all these aeons of years in lonliness;)

God is dead - we simply see no manefestation of it.

God - there has never been such a thing (Christian or indu, a god with a personality)


I tend to aree with the 3rd.
In either case- why to pray to it, all these possibilities of God mentioned above don't need any worship.
cheers!

Xev,

INFIDEL! INFIDEL! INFIDEL!

EEK! Am I going be flogged now? Tortured then burned to the stake?

*runs and hides from the wrath of Xev*

Naw, we athiests don't get into that 'flogging, beating and burning at the stake' bit. Well, maybe the flogging...(STOP THAT!) ;)

Master of Illusion,

Have you ever prayed...? :bugeye:

Love,
Nelson

Master of Illusion..
I think I am going to enjoy reading peoples responses to your post. I was in a resent one, "Proof that God DOES exist" where one of our member proceeded to tell me that I was not in my right mind, blah blah..
I think it is completely bogus also, and I am glad you posted something about it. It is going to open the minds of a lot of people.
I think I am going to like you.. Lol.

OPEN MINDS!?!?! It seems that it's closing them...

Believe it or not, what people like you an I say... Intrigue people, and they continue to think.. Opening there mind to possibilities.

It seems I owe Jesse Ventura an apology.

All other state governors have issued official proclamations of the day of prayer.

Jesse as in previous years has only signed a certificate of recognition.

I don't know much about Ventura's politics, but personally I like the guy. He's done everything he ever wanted, and kicked arse at it.

I don't think we should apologize to anyone. What about this being a free country, the fact that there isn’t a fucking holiday for atheists.. REALLY bothers me!!!
We have a goddamn holiday for everyone else...

Originally posted by MastemaRose
I don't think we should apologize to anyone. What about this being a free country, the fact that there isn’t a fucking holiday for atheists.. REALLY bothers me!!!
We have a goddamn holiday for everyone else...

Now that would be interesting. I wonder how many thiests would take National Athiests Day off? First we'll need to figure out what day God wasn't born on though.

We could have parade floats with nothing on them and drag balloon strings sans the balloon.

~Raithere

Jesse's an Independant, Adamski. His party split shortly after after he took office.

People in other states make fun of him (mainly 'cause the Minnesotans are so crazy about 'wrasslin' that they elected him) but I like him. He's got balls. He's a former SEAL, and he dosen't hide his athiesm.

And his politics are close enough to mine.

Oh yeah, and according to this moron (http://news.crosswalk.com/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID74088|CHID211724|CIID1132016,00.html), April Fools Day (April 1st) is our national holiday.

I can kinda see it - I mean, God has got to be the biggest 'prank' ever pulled. But too cold.

I say, somtime in July, to coincide with the Fourth of July and Bastille day.

P.S: He claims that Lincoln believed in God. Bullshit. Lincoln was an athiest, more or less.

Ha.. I got a kick out of that one. I think that would be interesting. Would you like to work with the goverment on that day with me? HAHA

Truthseeker,

I have never prayed to any god. Why would an atheist pray?

Prayer is a waste of time.

Prayer is a waste of time. How many people have been praying for children in Africa? How long have they been doing this? What's come out of it? Nothing. Children are still starving to death while millions of people sit back and say "I know what I can do, I'll pray for them!". No. Stop praying for them and start sending them food and money for god's sake. And then they have the nerve to say god is a being of everlasting love. Riiight..

Prayer is one of the aspects of religion that bugs me the most. Especially when it's used in instances like this.

Prayer is indeed a waste of time. I think those who pray should instead devote that portion of each day to masturbation. It's basically the same thing, but you get some physical pleasure out of it, and it might help release some of that pent-up sin-repression crap.

Ever heard the saying "Every time you masturbate God kills a kitten"? :D

Come on, the christian god masturbates as much as anyone else does. If he says he doesn't, he's a liar.

Adam I am with you on that one buddy.
And I completely understand what you are saying about the fact that people waste there time praying for things that will NEVER change.. I don't know what else to say on the subject, I don't know how more blunt any of us could have gotten.

Prayer is NOT a waste of time.

TruthSeeker..
Man, why do you get so defensive? I mean really. Law, and respect for other people (if you have any) says that everyone is entitled to there own opinion. You freak when anyone says anything that you don't agree with.

http://www.bizarremag.com/picture/godkills2.jpg

Thanks for reminding me of that one, Xelios.

Me, I say that time spent praying would be better spent sacrificing virgins to the Great Cthulhu....:D

I freak when people deny something that save lifes and is almost completly ignored by society...

Faith works... and I say it for own experience...

Love,
Nelson

Good argument Truthseeker: look at how big that 'not' is.
How do you verify the effects of a prayer? How can you rule out a naturalistic explanation or confirm the presence of something that does not lend itself to verification?

Voodoo Child,

One of the answers is: experience...
We don't have any other for now... but we might have soon...

Love,
Nelson

Experience. Of what? Any experiences are subject to the problem I stated above.

Seeing what you prayed for happening... mainly when the circumstances are completly opposite...

But how do I not know that there is not some unappreciated, completely material phenomenon that accounts for this prayer answer. If you are going to appeal to unknown forces to explain this, why should that force be divine? And if it is divine, how do you know it is not Satan who is answering it? Perhaps he wants to deceive you as to the true nature of God.

And what about prayers that aren't answered? For example the conspicious lack of supermodels in my bedroom.

I think prayer actually works to give yourself more confidence. When you pray for healing, your brain will think God is with you and will increase it's efforts to heal whatever injury you have. Kind of like "I think I can" vs "I know I can't".

I for one used to pray quite often and never 'experienced' anything supernatural. Sometimes what I prayed for happened, sometimes it didn't, so I now understand that praying made no difference at all and the times it seemed to work was just a coincidence with probability.

And then people say "Oh, you're just not praying right.", two problems with this. 1) they can never explain how to pray right, they just say if it's not working you're either asking for the wrong things or are doing something wrong. 2) Speaking with your creator should be one of the simplest tasks one can do. After all, what good is prayer if only 1 out of 100 people can actually get the message through?

Yet another example of a hole in the theory of religion.

I would say the same thing as George Carlin (mainly because I tried it out, as an experiment.....er yeah......an experiment!); I got the same success rate praying to God as I did for praying to Joe Pesci. And Praying to Joe was more fun.

Tyler: You mean, that routine where he is saying

"Okay, if there is a God, I pray that he will strike this audience dead!"

*Nothing happens*

"Okay, now I'm going to up the stakes: if there is a God, may he strike me dead!"

*Nothing happens*

"Well, there is no God"

Hey Nelson, how come God didn't answer either of the two heart-felt prayers I've ever made? Both were completly unselfish.

Xev, what were they?

For my two front teeth back, Adamski.

One was for as many people as possible to survive on 11 September of this year, the other was for nonexistance when I was twelve. I remember both quite vividly.

Hmm, I have yet to ask the Great Cthulhu for anything, although I will recite his blasphemous liturgy before tests. :p

Voodoo Child,

But how do I not know that there is not some unappreciated, completely material phenomenon that accounts for this prayer answer. If you are going to appeal to unknown forces to explain this, why should that force be divine? And if it is divine, how do you know it is not Satan who is answering it? Perhaps he wants to deceive you as to the true nature of God.
Well... one thing that already happened with me was really interesting... I was waiting the bus with a friend (my ex-girlfriend...), it was a sunny day, end of April... then suddenly started to snow... :bugeye: :eek:

Really... snow here in the end of April is impossible... I surely interpretate this as a sign of agreement that God made with me and my friend... That He might create through us (and it IS really happening... :bugeye: :eek:)

That's a simple example...
There are lots more from many people...

About Satan... he won't do anything good for you...

About your request...
God won't give such thing for you...

Love,
Nelson

TS,

Really... snow here in the end of April is impossible... I surely interpretate this as a sign of agreement that God made with me and my friend

Oh puh-LEEZ. So if I pray that God delivers to me a pepperoni pizza, thats the sign of an agreement with me that I won't masturbate anymore?

C'mon TS, where's the evidence, huh? Why is an experience for you ( Read: Intangible, subjective perception of a particular event ) any more valid than the expereince Muslims have? Jews? Satanists?

About your request...
God won't give such thing for you...

And why the hell not? Do you suddenly speak for God? Mabye God will fulfill his request, except instead he'll send a giant rubber chicken who heaves pizzas that explode with such a force that it would injury you severely?

Eh?

God won't give me a pizza? What a wanker!

So let's see what Satan does:

"Satan! Give me a pizza! Please!"

*Waits*

Bastard, he put anchovies on it. :p

So, Nelson, how come God never answered my prayers?

No, no. He has a routine where he talks about Pesci and praying to Joe. It's quite funny!

Voodoo Child,

Oh puh-LEEZ. So if I pray that God delivers to me a pepperoni pizza, thats the sign of an agreement with me that I won't masturbate anymore?

Not exactly... being righteous is actually a requirement for having a prayer answered. That's because Love NEVER answers things that are not good for someone... Righteousness is required for having a prayer answered because only righteous people know WHAT to ask... what answers the rest of your post...

Love,
Nelson

Great TS, it snowed in April. Big deal. It snowed at least 4 times the last 2 weeks of April where I live (AB, Canada). Really now, below average temperatures do not constitute either a religious experience or proof of God. It does nothing of the sort.

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Well... one thing that already happened with me was really interesting... I was waiting the bus with a friend (my ex-girlfriend...), it was a sunny day, end of April... then suddenly started to snow...

Nelson,
Were you praying for snow or just "a sign"? And if you're up in Canada like your info shows I would hardly say that snow in April is impossible. I'm near Chicago and I've seen it snow here in mid May.

Belief in prayer is like belief that your going to break the bank on your next trip to Vegas. Both are based on bad math. Honestly, how many of your prayers are actually answered? Think on how many people pray when a hurricane is heading towards the coastline. How many people pray daily for world peace? What percentage of these prayers come true? Why would God answer a individual request to pass a test or recover from an illness but not the heartfelt prayers of thousands of people who are praying for their very lives and that of their families and friends?

Theists have quite an annoying tendency to say "It's God's will." or "God moves in mysterious ways." when their prayers do not come true but then shout "Halleluiah!" when they do. Either way, they're covered. I can get the same results with Tyler/George Carlin's suggestion of praying to Joe Pesci.

~Raithere

It snowed in April a few times in New Jersey....the only sign it shows is that it is cold and parcipitating. I don't get it....why do you chose to call it a sign or an answer from prayer? It is just a natural phenomenon. Granted, it may be unlikely to see snow in April where I am but there is no reason for me to think that God was interveining and sending some kind of Divine sign?????

I don't get some people :bugeye: :bugeye:

Hello-ooooo!

I'm not talking about New Jersey, Chicago or AB, Canada... I'm talking about Nelson, BC. Here, it begins to snow at about middle of December and stops in the beginning of April.

Besides that, I didn't say it's impossible I said it's very rare. There's something in the geography of the city (mountains and rivers) that make it happen. While it's already snowing in all other cities around since the end of November, here, it only begins in about middle of December.

Another thing... it was predominantly sunny... and it was hot... :bugeye: :eek: :bugeye: :eek:

Love,
Nelson

Truthseeker, you posted previously:

Well... one thing that already happened with me was really interesting... I was waiting the bus with a friend (my ex-girlfriend...), it was a sunny day, end of April... then suddenly started to snow...
Really... snow here in the end of April is impossible... I surely interpretate this as a sign of agreement that God made with me and my friend... That He might create through us (and it IS really happening... :eek

Then your last post read:

Besides that, I didn't say it's impossible I said it's very rare.

Your snowing experience is laughable. It amazes me how christians can think they are so special that their god would actually do something like that for their benefit, yet does nothing to prevent tragedies etc that happen every day.

Get real.

Master of Illusion,

Your snowing experience is laughable. It amazes me how christians can think they are so special that their god would actually do something like that for their benefit, yet does nothing to prevent tragedies etc that happen every day.

he tries to prevent them... He tries to talk with people like you but you can't listen...

Listen to God while you are rationally thinking is like trying to listen a little bird in the middle of a trafic jam.

Love,
Nelson

Truthseeker, your poor widdle god is twying and twying to talk to me........

He's not very powerful is he? maybe he just ISN"T there.

Listen to God while you are rationally thinking is like trying to listen a little bird in the middle of a trafic jam.


Yes, irrational thinking seems to be a requirement of religion doesn't it?

I'm talking about Nelson, BC. Here, it begins to snow at about middle of December and stops in the beginning of April. There's something in the geography of the city (mountains and rivers) that make it happen. While it's already snowing in all other cities around since the end of November, here, it only begins in about middle of December.

Complete nonsense. Nelson BC has the same weather patterns as anywhere else in the Kootenays. There is nothing special about the geography of the city, the mountains or the rivers.

"he tries to prevent them... He tries to talk with people like you but you can't listen..."

Bullshit. God is omnipotent, omnipresent and all that other crap. Are you saying a God with all possible power can't prevent trajedies, than you are contradicting yourself. He just chooses to not prevent them.

You know, it's been days and I am still waiting for that pizza I asked for. What, does God think I ought to diet? FINE! How about some nice pinapple chunks?

And He never answered any of my heartfelt prayers. Why's that?

*Wanders off to ask the Great Cthulhu to get her some pinapple chunks*

Edit to update:

Well, the Great Old One gypped me on the pinapple chunks. He did bring some applesauce instead....yum.

Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!

At least Joe Pesci gives us sweet movies. God hasn't done anything great since Jesus Christ Superstar.

Tyler,

Afraid I haven't seen that movie. Can I get it at Blockbuster? I look under fantasy and drama, right? :D

TS,

Listen to God while you are rationally thinking is like trying to listen a little bird in the middle of a trafic jam

Thank you for pointing out that reaching God on a rational level is ( by your analogy ) virtually impossible. I couldn't have said it better myself.

May I shake your hand?

hehe, God's gettin grilled on these forums now that Tony1 and Loone seem to have disappeared :D

Hmmm.....

I'll take my God well done, thanks!

Yeah guys, you gotta come back so that we can debate *cough* taunt *cough cough* you! C'mon, it will be informative *cough* fun *cough*.

I think it's just shoved in with all the videos about santa and the easter bunny!!

Hey Xev, don't give up hope! We still have Jan! And now she's (he's?) claiming that there are only five basic elements......water, air, earth..... you know! And disregarding all basic science! It's quite hilarious!

Ah, Tyler, I tussled with her already. For your reading pleasure:

Jan Ardena on the big bang theory:

The fact that it is a theory, makes the so-called evidence insubstantial.

On athiests:

“One who disbelieves or denies the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being.”

That in itself although contains the truth, is a very general description.
The question has to be asked, because the word 'disbelieve' is used is; Why would one not want to believe in a supreme intelligent Being?
It is actually a better position.
We can see everday, that life comes from life, it is a natural phenomena. Why then at this crucial point do we decide that a Supreme Person is not the Supreme Cause of life.
This leads me to the second part of the description, the reason why, is because we deny Him. Most probably because we want to enjoy indiscriminately with this body, and His teachings are seen as an impediment. so we deny Him. That means we make a personal choice, and arrive at that conclusion, despite any spiritual feeling we, or anyone else has.
If we deny God then we act according to our whims, because we decide we don’t believe in Him or what He says, therefore we don’t adhere to His law. We justify this action by saying there's no such thing as God.

It is this ‘acting’ which is atheistic, not by saying ‘I am an atheist’ or ‘I don’t believe in God’. If that was the case, i should be able to get a job as a doctor based the fact that i say 'i am a doctor'.
In this way, virtually everybody on this planet is atheist to some degree or other.

You see, according to Jan, some athiests believe in God - even some Catholics are athiests.

Jan Ardena on citing one's sources and showing evidence via websites:

What, another website, don’t you have anything in your head?
Can you not communicate on your own?

Jan Ardena on my attempt to kill God:

I realise your intention, which is to foolishly try and kill God in some way or other. Your disbelief in God is not one of logic, but one of negative emotion.

Have fun. :p

http://www.sciforums.com/f22/s/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6547&pagenumber=2

Now, see, Tony1 at least knew his Bible and is, well, rather intelligent for a theist. (That's mean Xev! Stop it!)

Plus he believed in Cthulhu.

I use a simple analogy and anyone understands...
*sight...

Patience...

Master of Illusion,

He's not very powerful is he? maybe he just ISN"T there.
He has no power over you.

Xelios,

Yes, irrational thinking seems to be a requirement of religion doesn't it?

It's not irrational thinking, it's just silence...

(Q),

Complete nonsense. Nelson BC has the same weather patterns as anywhere else in the Kootenays. There is nothing special about the geography of the city, the mountains or the rivers.

Why the heck you don't stop talking about what you DON'T know!?!?!? Don't you know anything?!?!?! :bugeye:

Tyler,

Bullshit. God is omnipotent, omnipresent and all that other crap. Are you saying a God with all possible power can't prevent trajedies, than you are contradicting yourself. He just chooses to not prevent them.

He has no power over you... unless you listen to Him and foloow His advices...

Tinker683,

Thank you for pointing out that reaching God on a rational level is ( by your analogy ) virtually impossible. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Yes... perhaps it is...

Love,
Nelson

He has no power over you... unless you listen to Him and foloow His advices... then why in hell do I need him. I'll be a god for myself. I'm for a complete freedom and if I have to listen to smone for him to gain power over me then- NO WAY HOSE!

Avatar,

He gives you power, acting through you. But you have to be willing to accept it...

Love,
Nelson

I'll better trust my own powers. It has more value if you do it yourself. Your solution would be cheating.

And if I find myself drained, I meditate or have a sleep and everything's fine after.

God is within yourself. You are just a part of Him. The concept is that He is the forgotten part of yourself that you should remember. That's what "awakening" and "self-awareness" means.

Awakening is the process of rediscovering God within you.
Self-awareness is what you enhances in the process.

Love,
Nelson

God is within yourself. You are just a part of Him. The concept is that He is the forgotten part of yourself that you should remember. That's what "awakening" and "self-awareness" means.
You don't understand. I'm universe.. I know it and I fel it, I need no listening to anyody to discover tht becasue I know tht. It's not so hard to understand. Other thing is to discover some hidden possibilities (thelepaty, levitation), but why in hell do I need to insert some god in this. It is just me I have no schizophrenia (sp) and do not talk wit myself. I'm not a part of HIM or anybody you'd call him. Nobody is a part of anything. Everything is one united system. Would you call atoms or quarks in my body mine- they are also "independent" systems. I am they- they are me. There's no higher super consciousness tht is in charge of everything. the answer is SYMBIOIS

this is my observation and interpretation

Agreed with Avatar. We are Star stuff!!!! We are all a part of the Universe.