Me and a friend were thinking about a SciFi thing, and it started out as "what could beat the Empire of SW?"
then, we got thinking and started this:
The Central Galactic Union, est. 6270 AD.
A semi-naziistic state in that it persecutes something. Instead of persecuting a certain religon, they attack Aliens and mutants. Formed after the Civil War of 6165-6270, all of humanity was united under the baner of the Wittelsbach King of Earth, the 20-year-old Maximilian von Compton-Wittelsbach.
He formally dissolved the monarchy, preferring the title "autocrat of the human race" and dissolved the economy, making food and goods free and a social ranking counted by prestige.
In 6288, the CGU discovers an alien empire, the Zaaroft Imperium, on the edge of the Galaxy. Following through with the government policy, they obliterated a zaaroft-controlled planet using a massive nuclear bombardment. Thus, the Zaaroft War began.
The year is 6306, and Dictator Maximilian is now 56 years old, and in declining health. the CGU had been winning only a few years earlier, but it is now locked in a stalemate...
The massive CGU Dreadnoughts, armed with nuclear torpedoes, thirty 500 gigaton beam cannons, and two giant 2300 teraton particle blasters, are the bane of the Zaaroft armada. The Zaaroft, however, have nearly total dominance on the ground, with giant 4-meter tall Legionaries, amred with pulse beamers and energy swords. The CGU army still uses projectile weapons, but are in the process of testing hand-held laser and lightning weapons.
The war has been a bitter one, with massive casualties on both sides. The humans, however, seem to have an unlimited supply of manpower at thier disposal.
Only time shall tell of the outcome, and the Zaaroft are running short of time...

Mmmm hmmm....


:confused:

I have no idea what is going on....

*exhausted sigh*
the CGU is the milky way galaxy, they discover an alien race, and they make war on it.
fairly cut-and-dry.
except that the CGU is on a mission to wipe out and exterminate all alien lifeforms.
kinda makes ya wonder, "who are the real bad guys here? the aliens or the humans?"

Ahhhhhh... makes sense now...

what do you think of it?

Well the opposing force, the non humans seem to have the humans over powered with their 500 megaton what nots and their 600 terraton who nows. How do the humans stand a chance?

meh?
no, its the humans that have the 50 gigaton cannons and 2000 teraton particle guns on thier ships.
the humans are the ones with the better ships.
its the Zaaroft that have better ground forces.
it pretty much equalizes into a long, bloody, gory massacre.
war of attrition. very effective.

Here's a site, by me and my friend.
its for our movie and story company: PyroPictures, inc.
All the stuff on here are just ideas, but the ideas are copyrighted(my friend has a fuckload of cash)
not only CGU stuff, but "Glory of the Empire" and "Sorrow of the Samurai" as well as "NUKE" stories and Pics.
http://groups.msn.com/PyroPicturesInc-/shoebox.msnw

Ahhh... ok, i read it wrong. GO US! with our terratons. This is getting intresting... thats odd getting it copyrighted.

why not? i dont want people to stel the idea, and patent it and cheat us out of money.
we're making a book series, then eventually movies.
Can you see the site?
i dunno if my friend removed the restrictions.

Cant see the site.

Here's the definition of the CGU that i wrote myself, that i put on my site:

"Just what is the CGU? its a multi-ethnic nation that consists of the entire Milky Way Galaxy and a some outlying star clusters.
They have a caste system, which consists of the Dictator and the military high command at the top, then ruling noblemen and aristocrats, then the clergy and manufacturing leaders, followed by the peasant class. The peasantry live in a non-discrimiatory atmosphere, where each person does work ,and everyone has food. Money does not exist. Food is given freely to the people by the government, and everyone gets free education, even free college. Catholicism is the dominant religon, followed by Muscovite Orthodox and then Judaism. Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam are minor relgions. The aristocrats and business leaders are highly priveliged, and usually are chief judges in the courts. The military wields the most power, and carries out a race policy of extirminating all non-human aliens. The populace openly supports the policy, being entirely human in species.
The war against the Zaaroft is a continuation of the government official policy."

damnit...
well, ill post some pics later on, man.
i'll talk to the guy tomorrow, and get him to change it. i dunno how to, so...
or you could just become a member, eh?

Here's a Zaaroft frontline infantry: the Legionaire.
four meters tall, about 500 kilograms. wears 10cm-thick ultralightweight armor that is incredibly strong and durable. They maily use a weapon called the "pulse beamer" which fires a continuous laser beam, which is quite powerful. Legionaires are also quite smart, and have very strong, leathery skin which is somewhat resistant to bullets. Mounted on thier arms are beam-sword emitters, and some have antimatter rocket launchers mounted on thier shoulders.

OOOKkkkkk, your not going to like this, but I'll phrase it as nicely as possible:

It looks like your wanting to talk about blowing things up with lots of guns, something most of us arent here to do. I suggest you try one of the millions of websites devoted to counting the terawattage of a space cruisers main armament.
And also, that you get some characters for your storys. Stuff involving lots of guns is interesting for about a nanosecond- character is what builds memories and allegiance.

By the way, how old are you?

Uh, lets see, ive said i dont how many fucking times on this site that im "15".
it has several main characters.
if you go to the fucking site, you'd see that, or are you too fucking stupid?
and what do you think science fiction warfare is? a bunch of happy, frolicking, llamas?
no! its a bunch of high-power guns! and explosions! and ships!
but, no, its not all that. we have a lot of characters, and about four main ones.
Let's see:
Maximilian von Compton-Wittelsbach- leader of the CGU.
Eta Rycon- second-in-command of the CGU.
Friederich Wilhelm Voss- Reichsfuhrer of the StormGuard, and third-in-command of the CGU.
Ulrich Kearny- PFC in the CGU Army, the main character in the Zaaroft War series.
Izaniso Subashikawa- Flight Captain in the SpaceMech force of the CGN, and main character of the Zephyr War series.

Lots of f-bombs. You are too hostile for a 15 yr old.

you obviously have never attended Kammerer Middle School or Ballard High School.

Obviously... because we all know the people that go to that school drop a lot of f-bombs.... sarcasm.

can you amybe get back to the Science Fiction thing...please..eh?

Hey, I've been on holiday, having a break from this madhouse. So like everyone else I see this new guy posting all over the shop, some good, some bad, and say, "wow, is he a stereotypical male geek teenager?"

As for SF warfare, it can be about a bunch of frolicking Llamas. The fact that they harbour invidious and lethal parasites that decimate the human population of the planet that just imported them is another matter entirely.

I think my main point, that this isnt the best place for such discussion still stands.

But that aside, you seem to have all the right "bits" for a story. Now you need to weave them together into a coherent and entertaining whole. This can be hard work. I know someone whos been writing for 20 years, been published for at least 15, and only now is he a top flight Science fiction author. So, write some story stuff, and practise it. There was a thread in the SF section for people to post their own stories and suchlike for ritical comment.
Unfortunately your website wants me to sign in with an MSN key thingy, something I dont have.

damn it.
i need to get that guy to fix that.
i dont know how, so...
we haven't started writing yet, but we will soon.
actually, i came up with the idea in 1999, with "Zephyr Wars", in which a human supergovernment tries to colonize a galaxy, the Zephyr Galaxy, but the Zephyr, an alien species that uses almost exclusively mecha. blah blah blah. war and gore.
we've re-vamped it so that there's more story on the CGU and more story on the alien races. We have yet to tie it all together, but we have a pretty good base going on the story. the site has a lotta pics of ships, guns, troops, and main characters.

I presume one side or both has FTL capabilities?
If not then the whole concept is a load of hooey - as there's no way two civilisations would meet and engage in full-scale war in the year 6,000, as it would take too long to travel places - our galaxy being around 80,000 to 100,000 light years across.

Also, time effects of travelling toward LS needs to be taken into account.

If you do have FTL capability then fair enough.
But then you need to consider whether it's a different "space" that FTL exists in (e.g. Babylon 5 style) or whether it's normal space.
If it's normal space then why use Nuclear torpedoes when you can just ram planets and enemy ships with FTL (or near-FTL) masses and crack them wide open.
"Mass-drivers" can be very effective radioactive-free kinetic weapons :)

And what magical power source are you using?
What new technology have you come up with to power Teratonne and Gigatonne weaponary?

Being geeky, one 2300 Teratonne weapon, fired for 1 second, would need roughly 10^25 joules of energy. (1 ton of TNT is equal to about 4.2*10^9 Joules).
This is equivalent to 100,000 tonnes of mass converted at 100% effeciency (i.e. matter / anti-matter).
If you use anti-matter then you would need to store 50,000 tonnes of it for each time you fired the weapon, utilising 50,000 tonnes of space dust / debris as the other 50,000.
Unless I have my sums wrong?

So, what other "mystical" power source are you using?


Also - the ground forces.
The CGU have these 2300 teraton weapons - and yet hand-held lasers are only just being created / tested?? Hmmm. I would find this to be unlikely, especially given primitive lasers are currently being tested in the 21st century - let alone the 60th century or so.
Plus - what does it matter how tall or big the enemy is when you can destroy them from miles away?


A good SF story generally has well worked out science - which is why Star Wars isn't that great a piece of Science fiction but rather excellent Fantasy.
If it is just about warfare, with no semblance to realism (which is not a problem and can be great fun), then the characters become far more important to a good story - and you should certainly concentrate on that rather than on the specifics of the weapons.

As a setting for stories... Hmmmm... seen thousands like it before - which is primarily just an interstellar war. Star Wars, for example. Star Trek isn't a far cry from it. Babylon 5. And that's just tv stuff.

thanks for posting. its been a while....i thought this thread was dead.,,,
okay...
FTL?
hell, yes! CGU's capital ships move about 100-200 Lightyears per second...smaller ships move a bit slower, as they do not have as powerful engines/
Well, the older Nova-class battleships use 888mm Gauss Cannons, but they proved somewhat ineffective in comabat against Zaaroft cruisers.
as for the nuclear torpedoes...ah, hell, they just sound cool.
and stop spelling "ton" incorrectly. thats just not cool.
as for the power source:
fusion reactors and ion engines are the standard. they can be ultracompacted so that they can be used in starfighters, like the Tigershark or the Rex.
well, they still had to invent way to make the fusion cells ultracompact, and the battery packs ultracompact, and such, to make it small enough for an infantry weapon and infantry armor.
they aren't necisarrily just now testing them, just in the Zaaroft War, they start to make them the standard. Before this, .15mm Automatic Rifles were the standard infantry weapons.

well, the thing is....the CGU usually does call in bomber and airstrikes...but they need the infantry to occupy the planets where the Zaaroft are at. They need them for those actual close encounters with the enemy. why to u think the Empire has Stormtroopers even though they could cook a planet with ISDs? same reason--sometimes, you just gotta face 'em head-on.

...and stop spelling "ton" incorrectly. thats just not cool.pTonne = 1,000 kg - it is otherwise known as a "metric ton".
Your "ton" = 907.18kg - which is somewhat irksome to use in any calculations.
Personally I prefer tonne - as it is simpler.
But that's your choice.


fusion reactors and ion engines are the standard.
Firstly, Ion engines are incredibly slow accelerators. Their thrust is tiny compared to chemical rockets.
You certainly wouldn't use ion propulsion to move vast capital ships around - they just wouldn't work very quickly at all.
For example, a NASA test vehicle (Deep Space 1 - which will be fun when they get to the 9th vehicle!) will be firing its ion engines continuously for 20 months to achieve a delta-v of just 4.5 km/s.
That's how slow ion engines are!

Fusion reactors are fine for your spacecraft, large and small - but they wouldn't be able to generate the power sufficient for firing your "Teraton" weapons - as I stated earlier. The required energy is simply too high.

....they aren't necisarrily just now testing them, just in the Zaaroft War, they start to make them the standard. Before this, .308 Automatic Rifles were the standard infantry weapons.
Seriously, mate, the US are already developing hand-held laser weapons.
Just google the "Stavatti TIS-1"
Or click here for a *.pdf document (http://www.defensereview.com/352003/TIS1.pdf)

Plus you'll most likely get other far superior weapons to .308 auto-rifles - such as pulse rifles, gauss cannons, mass-drivers etc.
Standard projectile weapons will most likely be redundant by then.
Just as the bow 'n' arrow is redundant now.

So, other than the personal combat weapons, you still need to address the power of your ships' weaponary - and use E=Mc^2 to establish what is an acceptable energy / weight trade-off for your cannons.
Plus you'll need to sort out what shielding, if any, the crafts have.
If they don't have any then a simple projectile will cause havoc.
If they have shielding other than mere mass then you again need to assess the power requirements and the mass implications for utilising the shield for any length of time.

Recently, I've made changes.
I've changed the standard Infantry Weapon from a .308 rifle to a 15mm light hand-held autocannon. Laser rifles are in use then, but the conservative politicians of the CGU are all somewhat wary of energy weapons, but they are getting into standard use by the time of the Zaaroft War.
I've made the infantry have powered armor, and personal energy shields.

Ive reduced the main ship's weapon yields.
The main guns? no longer 22 petatons (22000 teratons), but are now only 20 teratons. These have massive charge times, and a very loooong cool down & recharge time.
The secondaries? no longer 500 gT, now just 50 gT.

I've radically changed many things, after being on SB.com for a long while.

I've also recently added new ships to the CGU fleet.
Carriers for one thing, and a combonation carrier-battleship.
As well as a battlestation type of ship.
Also, me & weston have desinged new vehicles:
the Cockroach class mobile field base/assualt vehicle.
and the Scorpio class support-assault vehicle.

I'll post stats later.

Okay. Cockroach stats:

Cockroach-class vehicle.
Mobile Field Base/Assualt Vehicle.
Basically, it's shaped like a cockroach, except it's a bit more square-like and utilitarian-looking. It has three sections: Head section, which contains the forward-firing main guns (405mm Phased Plasma Repeaters) and the command centre;t the second section, which contains two of the six legs, contains antiaircraft cannons, SAM pods and side-facing antivehicle guns; the rear section, which also had two leg pieces, also contains some 200 VLCM tubes.
It also has heavy energy shields, and is made from a nigh-impregnable alloy known as Terranium.

kinda makes ya wonder, "who are the real bad guys here? the aliens or the humans?"


No it doesn't... There's nothing to wonder about... The humans just decide too kill anythign that isn't a human, for no good reason... they're the bad guys, obviously... not even much to think of...

And screw ground forces, btw, if the point is to extewrminate the race; just nuke the fuckers from space. This is stupid...

Also, I'm sure teens of the future everywhere would appreciate it if you stopped telling people how old you are... I rmember at that age the second I told someone how old I was the respect level just plummetted, and there was nothing I could do to get it back...

This is why...

Normally I would say this is the dumbest, cliche-sounding generic Sci-fi that I have ever heard of and the chances of people finding anything at all interesting in what a 15 year old has to say is almost as incredible as the fantastic ideas represented in the CGU story, and with that caveat I will say you actually have more than what most people have, something to work with.

A kid wrote the story for "The Fifth Element" and that story is mostly space creatures, guns, and space ships darting around everywhere. As a writer myself, both professionally and for fun (I am a nerdy GM that has made my own game universe) I have a couple of suggestions that I think can help you out that you may or may not have thought of already.

1. Timeline Progression: Is this universe Earht related and if it is can you link up the progression of nations, history, technology, and space exploration? If it is not based on Earth how do humans become involved in the universe?

2. Political Alliances: Why are people at war and not at peace. This is especially tricky in space. Spaceships cost a whole heck of a lot and fighting in them has to have an equally lucrative gains involved. What do both species have to gain in fighting?

3. Value: Where does human values fit into this sci-fi thread? Do characters exhibit courage, justice, vengeance, honor, duty? These are things that often come out in sci-fi because it usually pushes human experience to an extreme. If humanity has an imbiguous role in the war then who will exhibit these traits and how?

4. Human Empathy: Who is the main character that the audience is shown with which to empathize? This is important in all stories and can be explained as the point-of-view, the story-teller, or the main character. If it is a human the story has to make humans naturally good, if it is another race then humans are bad, if it shows both sides of the story then war is bad and both sides are usually just mixed up in a confusing situation.

5. Realism in Science Fiction: I personally enjoy a universe in which normal rules of physics and cause-and-effect. This is a classic rule of sci-fi writing: good Science makes good Science fiction


Anyway, I think that you made reference to this being your idea, well its not. Everything that you can ever think of has been done to death already. All you can do is steal the best ideas from the best sources and put them together around a good story. Condense your ideas and put them together a little more and then get writing.

-ZERO MASS

OK, let's assume that by the date you're talking about, the 68th Century or whatever, the Human race have been in space for something like 47 or so centuries--i.e. entered space and started exploring beyond the Solar System by (at the latest) the end of the 21st Terran Century. Let's also assume that they started meeting alien races almost immediately, chiefly because the alien races were checking out this new species which had just entered space. So wouldn't the Humans (being Human, after all) start hopping into bed with the aliens almost straight away? That's what they did whenever they they meet each other on Earth. I mean, there must be some cute aliens out there, surely? They can't all be covered with long green body hair or scales, or have sharp barbs that come out of their skin every time someone walks up to them. (Mind you, even that could be a turn-on for some people. Nothing is too strange for people to get accustomed to.)

Besides, what role does religion play in this latter-day fascist empire? Religion is one of the main causes of war on Earth, and has been ever since Humans started inventing gods (or vice-versa).

No it doesn't... There's nothing to wonder about... The humans just decide too kill anythign that isn't a human, for no good reason... they're the bad guys, obviously... not even much to think of...
Actually, the humans are the good guys in the story. See, this is exactly the thing I was talking about. The plot makes you think that the humans are the bad guys here.
Nope. Aliens are the real evil ones in the CGUverse.

OK, let's assume that by the date you're talking about, the 68th Century or whatever, the Human race have been in space for something like 47 or so centuries--i.e. entered space and started exploring beyond the Solar System by (at the latest) the end of the 21st Terran Century. Let's also assume that they started meeting alien races almost immediately, chiefly because the alien races were checking out this new species which had just entered space. So wouldn't the Humans (being Human, after all) start hopping into bed with the aliens almost straight away? That's what they did whenever they they meet each other on Earth. I mean, there must be some cute aliens out there, surely? They can't all be covered with long green body hair or scales, or have sharp barbs that come out of their skin every time someone walks up to them. (Mind you, even that could be a turn-on for some people. Nothing is too strange for people to get accustomed to.)

Well, the Pope has a major say in the whole matter. Let's see...in the timeline that I've made for the CGUverse, Protestantism becomes effectively wiped out in the early 2900s. Most of the galaxy's population are catholic. They listen to the 'Space Pope'. Approxomately, at the height of the human-alien intiegration thing the mid-4500s, 75% of the human population were either Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, and the offices of Patriarch of Constantinople and Pope had been merged since 3116.
One of the Papal decrees is that humans and aliens should not mate.
Remember, up until this time, the galaxy is still the Galactic Confederation. The CGU has not even formed yet. There is no extermination policy, yet.
People begin to feel resentment towards the aliens and feel that they are 'ruining humanity and human culture'.
By the time of the Great Civil War, aliens are thoroughly hated by nearly all humans. There are some tranbreeds between aliens and humans, but these people are mostly shunned by society, and hated.
When the CGU is founded in 6270, and takes absolute control of the Milky Way in 6275, the hatred and rage is turned into government policy. Systematic liquidation and extermination of all aliens and alien-human crossbreeds is made into official policy. In short: there are some human-alien crossbreeding, but most people are pure human, and show disdain on anyone who breeds with aliens.
Besides, what role does religion play in this latter-day fascist empire? Religion is one of the main causes of war on Earth, and has been ever since Humans started inventing gods (or vice-versa).
At the foundation of the CGU, 77% of humanity were Catholic, 13% were Orthodox, 5% were Jewish, 4% were minor religions, 0.5% followed alien religions (heretical in the eyes of the CGU), and 0.5% had no religion. Aliens aren't considered citizens.
It plays a major part in politics, especially seeing as 90% of humanity listens to what the Space Pope says, and that the Pope has his own armada of staships.
The Catholic and Orthodox churches both follow along with the Government's anti-alien policy.
Essentially, religion is still a major political and social force, but the CGU government assures total freedom of religion to all citizens, and protects that right.

1. Timeline Progression: Is this universe Earht related and if it is can you link up the progression of nations, history, technology, and space exploration? If it is not based on Earth how do humans become involved in the universe?
Yeas, everything is based around a slightly alternate future Earth. I have a timeline written, I just haven't presented it to ya'll yet.

2. Political Alliances: Why are people at war and not at peace. This is especially tricky in space. Spaceships cost a whole heck of a lot and fighting in them has to have an equally lucrative gains involved. What do both species have to gain in fighting?
Well, for one thing, economies are outdated and obsolete in the Galaxy by this point. There is enough resources to go around for hundreds of years. Things don't 'cost' anything more than the contruction resources used.
Well, the CGU is attacking the Zaaroft because the Zaaroft are aliens, not humans. It's just the government policy of the CGU. The Zaaroft have only one thing to gain: survival. THe CGU is just trying to wip out any aliens that stand in thier way.

3. Value: Where does human values fit into this sci-fi thread? Do characters exhibit courage, justice, vengeance, honor, duty? These are things that often come out in sci-fi because it usually pushes human experience to an extreme. If humanity has an imbiguous role in the war then who will exhibit these traits and how?
Well, yes, of course the characters show emotion, courage, etc. They're fighting an enemy that they hate with the burning anger of a thousand hells! The CGU's propaganda machine really implants all of this hatred of aliens and glorification of humanity. The individual soldiers exhibit a sense of justice in what they are doing, as they feel as though what they are doing is just, and is encouraged by the Papacy, a major political influence.

4. Human Empathy: Who is the main character that the audience is shown with which to empathize? This is important in all stories and can be explained as the point-of-view, the story-teller, or the main character. If it is a human the story has to make humans naturally good, if it is another race then humans are bad, if it shows both sides of the story then war is bad and both sides are usually just mixed up in a confusing situation.
The story is told from a 3rd Person, limited, point of view. The main character is a CGU Army soldier named Jason Strobol. The story follows Jason, and the unit he leads (Alpha Squad, 88th Platoon, 171st Infantry Battlion) through the major campaigns, the key battles, during the Zaaroft War.
The story shows what the humans are doing, but in a good manner. Some scenes in the book will show things from the Zaaroft view, but mainly only from the key Zaaroft characters.
The majority of the story, however, concerns Jason Strobol as he fights the war, and gets higher in the ranks (in the beginning of the story, he starts out as a Staff Sergeant).

5. Realism in Science Fiction: I personally enjoy a universe in which normal rules of physics and cause-and-effect. This is a classic rule of sci-fi writing: good Science makes good Science fiction
Yes, real physics apply in this.

Anyway, I think that you made reference to this being your idea, well its not. Everything that you can ever think of has been done to death already. All you can do is steal the best ideas from the best sources and put them together around a good story. Condense your ideas and put them together a little more and then get writing.
:bugeye: Um...no, dude, me & weston thought of the CGU ourselves. We did it once when thinking of an idea for our "The Dark Times" story, but spun it off into a seperate idea, with a totally different premise. It's an original idea.
Don't call me a liar, bitch.

Well, for one thing, economies are outdated and obsolete in the Galaxy by this point. There is enough resources to go around for hundreds of years. Things don't 'cost' anything more than the contruction resources used.
Well, the CGU is attacking the Zaaroft because the Zaaroft are aliens, not humans. It's just the government policy of the CGU. The Zaaroft have only one thing to gain: survival. THe CGU is just trying to wip out any aliens that stand in thier way.

First off, how have economies become outdated? It is very difficult to have a society that is not based on commerce, and it is even more difficult to transition from a commerce based economy to another. Why do people work if everything is free? Is it a socialist or communistic society? You say it is a Nazi society but they were capitalists, what is the modern day analog to the CGU society?

Well, yes, of course the characters show emotion, courage, etc. They're fighting an enemy that they hate with the burning anger of a thousand hells! The CGU's propaganda machine really implants all of this hatred of aliens and glorification of humanity. The individual soldiers exhibit a sense of justice in what they are doing, as they feel as though what they are doing is just, and is encouraged by the Papacy, a major political influence.

Why do they hate the aliens? and more importantly why should the reader empathize with the humans and hate the aliens as well? Should the reader dislike the CGU? I do just be hearing about it, I hate nazis. I empathize more with the aliens who would be the victims in this war (very similar to Enders Game). Are you writing a story about the Catholic Church, if so what are you saying abbout the church of today? Are they one and the same? Are the soldiers the victims of the government? Is their government lying to them (this seems very similar to a contemporary war situation going on in the world right now)

[QUOTE=Hapsburg]The story is told from a 3rd Person, limited, point of view. The main character is a CGU Army soldier named Jason Strobol. The story follows Jason, and the unit he leads (Alpha Squad, 88th Platoon, 171st Infantry Battlion) through the major campaigns, the key battles, during the Zaaroft War.
The story shows what the humans are doing, but in a good manner. Some scenes in the book will show things from the Zaaroft view, but mainly only from the key Zaaroft characters.
The majority of the story, however, concerns Jason Strobol as he fights the war, and gets higher in the ranks (in the beginning of the story, he starts out as a Staff Sergeant).

Why do we care about the soldiers? What makes them special? you need to answer some of these questions before you go writing a story. you say that it shows what the humans are doing in a good manner, is the point of view tainted? does the reader ever get to see an objective point of view in the story?
Also, what does it matter that the main character advances in ranks, the more important thing to show in any story is how the character grows as an individual human being. What transformations does Jason go through? Does he become a better person by seeing what he does in war? Does it kill him inside?

Yes, real physics apply in this.

The big problem that I have with most far-off sci-fi is how travel is mastered. I apologize if you have answered this question elsewhere, but how do spaceships get from one place to another...wormholes? FTL 'warp' drives? portals? Or is it realitic scape travel that takes a whole heck of a long time?

Also, if nukes exist and are used regularly, why not just nuke all your enemies if you are trying to kill them off? Is the CGU trying to capture planets? If so, what for?

:bugeye: Um...no, dude, me & weston thought of the CGU ourselves. We did it once when thinking of an idea for our "The Dark Times" story, but spun it off into a seperate idea, with a totally different premise. It's an original idea.
Don't call me a liar, bitch.

Lets go through the list here:
-A space-faring world empire that does not use currency, That sounds a lot like the Star Trek Universe if you ask me.
-A no-hold-barred war against aliens, utilizing super powerful space craft. well that reminds me of a host of sci-fi, inculding Starship Troopers and Ender's Game
-A nazistic dark future society: A clockwork orange, 1984, and fahrenheit 451
-The military war story has been used in lots of science fiction stories, what sets yours apart from all others that came before? Humans are fighting aliens? That's original. Large spaceships? I think I have seen that before.

I am not calling you a liar, I am calling you a writer. One of my favorite quotes about writing goes "Good writers borrow (from other writers), and great writers steal" It is just the nature of the creative process that you are not going to be able to come up with original ideas. You can get good ideas and put them together in a good way, but they are not going to be original.

Your best chance is to try to define your sci-fi universe as best as you can. Like I have stated, answers some questions about why anybody should care about your writing any more than othersci-fi worlds and creations. What is the human element in the story? What analogs does it represent in our own world...are you writing a story about the effects of war? The horrors of totalitarian regimes? Xenophobia? your story cannot be about the ships or aliens, they are just the special effects.

-ZERO MASS

Ah.
Well, by the time the CGU exists, 6270, they have control over all of the milky way galaxy. Thusly, they have enough resources (food, water, minerals etc.) to feed every human for a thousand years, and enough materials to build massive warfleets.

As for the main character: the purpose of him getting higher in ranks is more of a gootnote, just showing that he is becoming a better soldier. We haven't planned out everything, and we aren't writing yet, so, believe me, we have plenty of time to brainstorm and plan out how we will have the character develop.

As for the FTL: They use warp drives to move at massively huge FTL speeds, and can travel from one end of the galaxy to the other in about a day to a week (depending on how powerful the FTL drive).
Nuclear weapons are used frequently, but normally only on planets that the CGU has no use for. Remember, they have people to feed, and while there is more than enough to go around, the population is growing, and they need to produce more. Capturing a planet and using as large farming colonies works wonders.

As for you last thing: thanks for clearing that up. I have never actually read or seen most of those names you just named...weird.


Your best chance is to try to define your sci-fi universe as best as you can. Like I have stated, answers some questions about why anybody should care about your writing any more than other sci-fi worlds and creations. What is the human element in the story? What analogs does it represent in our own world...are you writing a story about the effects of war? The horrors of totalitarian regimes? Xenophobia? your story cannot be about the ships or aliens, they are just the special effects.
Okay. It mostly shows how things have changed from modern times, while showing that no matter how far in the future we go, we will never get rid of the natural human lust for blood, power, and glory.
And, actually, I'm more of showing the effeciency of totalitarianism. I'm not against it, that's why I have the "good guys" in the story as totalitarians.
But, yeah, thanks for the input.

Okay, you said that the humans were the good guys, but why is this? They seem to be trying to wipe out aliens simply because they aren't human based on the orders of their autocrat and their blind faith in their church. While this may be realistic, it doesn't seem ethical, hence they are not the good guys. Also, regardless of which they are, there would be a resistance of some kind to the rule of a dictator and the members of other churches would not favor the decrees of the Pope. This resistance would be able to aid the Zaaroft in their fight, and most likely would do so on multiple fronts by spreading their own propaganda, placing sleeper cells on planeets targeted by the Zaaroft, and having infiltrated the military and government of the CGU. Just a thought...

The humans are the good guys because they are humans.

Oh, and yeah, there is small rebel/resistance movement within the CGU, mostly on the outer rim. But, this is more or less a minor annoyance. Also, of course, there are marauding space pirates and smugglers all around the milky way, and no one really knows what in the no-fly zone, which is an area within the milky way that is just a massive clump of ion and electron storms, black holes, and asteroid fields.

So, yes, there is human resistance, but they aren't too much of a problem.

Oh, for more info on vehicles and vessels and characters from not only the CGU 'verse, but all of PyroPics, go to here:
http://groups.msn.com/PyroPicturesInc-

Ah.
Well, by the time the CGU exists, 6270, they have control over all of the milky way galaxy. Thusly, they have enough resources (food, water, minerals etc.) to feed every human for a thousand years, and enough materials to build massive warfleets.

If this is true then wh take over new planets from aliens? Why not just nuke them into oblivion? Also, a ground war makes no sense in the future, it has almost become obsolete in 2005, in the year 6270 I would have to think that it would be gone.
So lets break it down:
If they have enough resources, why take over other planets? Have they the technology to terraform planets?
In a society where there is food and resources for everybody why would anybody go to war?
In the far future would we not have developed the ability to wage war without picking up a gun. And 4265 years in the future, I would think that laser technology would be archaic. Think of all the scientific advancements we have had in the last century, multiply that by 42 and that is what we should have in your time period.
If we were going to fight ground forces to take over a planet, well, what did America do in Iraq? We bombed the hell out of the enemy. Why wouldn't the CGU just do that, or use chemical or biological warfare that wouldn't destroy the planet? I read someplace in your inane fluff that there was some kind of devastator ray like from latest Star Trek movie.
Even if they did go to war and got involved in a ground conflict, it seems like it would be more of an occupation than anything else. If I were an alien race fighting a better equiped army then you either have to go underground or go home.

Also, a society that has everything it wants, including a people that have no reason to hate aliens (did they attack humanity? did an alien diss the space pope? are they kilngons?) has no reason to go to war. no nation goes to war over grievances, that is bogus. Countries war because of money. Why is that? Because war costs a lot of money, and it is only worth it if winning said war would recoup the cost of mobilizing troops, weapons, etc. I think this is the main beef I have with your story, if it is going to be set in a reality that stems from human experiences here and now on earth, then it makes no sense: If there is no currenc in the future then there is no war but to protect yourself from invaders. Your storyline is a lot like a preverted Star Trek in that way.

As for the main character: the purpose of him getting higher in ranks is more of a gootnote, just showing that he is becoming a better soldier. We haven't planned out everything, and we aren't writing yet, so, believe me, we have plenty of time to brainstorm and plan out how we will have the character develop.

Well, I think it is important for the reader in a sci-fi story to either sympathize with the mian character or feel sorry for him. Hell, that goes for almost any story, but particularly sci-fi. If you are going to write a war story, then nobody cares how he develops as a soldier, show how he becomes a man or a more self-aware human being.

As for the FTL: They use warp drives to move at massively huge FTL speeds, and can travel from one end of the galaxy to the other in about a day to a week (depending on how powerful the FTL drive).
Nuclear weapons are used frequently, but normally only on planets that the CGU has no use for. Remember, they have people to feed, and while there is more than enough to go around, the population is growing, and they need to produce more. Capturing a planet and using as large farming colonies works wonders.

Hmm, by my calculation that would be at its fastest about 4o,oo times the speed of light, which seems a bit comic bookish if you ask me.
My whole beef with the economy thing has been stated, I don't think I have to repeat myself. But let me say that this is a major fallacy in your story, and it makes it look extremely amateurish, to be expected for a first timer, but that doesn't mean you can't change it.

Okay. It mostly shows how things have changed from modern times, while showing that no matter how far in the future we go, we will never get rid of the natural human lust for blood, power, and glory.
And, actually, I'm more of showing the effeciency of totalitarianism. I'm not against it, that's why I have the "good guys" in the story as totalitarians.
But, yeah, thanks for the input.

First off, I don't think that humanity has a "natural lust" for blood, we are essentially upright monkeys, have you seen a blood-thirsty monkey? or a power-hungry monkey? And I don't see that many people walking around with a lust for glory, that just sounds like fantasy, lord of the rings kind of stuff that has no connection with the state of our world today.

Also, please listen up, nobody cares about sci-fi that has no ties to our contemporary human experience. Don't write sci-fi that shows an unrealistic view of the future because nobody will buy it except little boys, b/c it is the stuff of fantasy. If you want to write something that resonates, then it has to be steeped in the words, ideas, and events of the here and now. This world, as you have outlined it makes no ripples in the water, in fact as far as the metapho goes it is rather bone-dry. You have a couple of choices: either make it more realistic, like closer to home, or make it have some political or social commentary.

Also, you say that you haven't even heard of 1984, Clockwork Orange, Fahrenheit 451, Ender's Game, or Starship Troopers...do yourself a favor and pick them up now. Especially Starship Troopers, don't watch the movie, read the book, it is very similar to your story, whether you intended or not. The number one rule of all writers is to "read like to write like". Sorry I have to drop the knowledge bomb on you yet again. Keep it real.

-ZERO MASS

If this is true then wh take over new planets from aliens? Why not just nuke them into oblivion? Also, a ground war makes no sense in the future, it has almost become obsolete in 2005, in the year 6270 I would have to think that it would be gone.
Well, as I said, they have enough to feed the people, but the population is growing. They need more food and resources.

So lets break it down:
If they have enough resources, why take over other planets?
Growing population, they want and need enough to feed thier growing population, and to use as more planets as colonies, so humanity can expand outward.
Have they the technology to terraform planets?
Yes.
In a society where there is food and resources for everybody why would anybody go to war?
Because they want to exterminate any non-humans. I've said that already, it's the CGU government's propaganda machine that gets this into people's heads. The Government espouses the Terran Movement of the 6250s, which aimed to have humanity as the dominant force, nay, the ONLY force, in the universe.
In the far future would we not have developed the ability to wage war without picking up a gun. And 4265 years in the future, I would think that laser technology would be archaic. Think of all the scientific advancements we have had in the last century, multiply that by 42 and that is what we should have in your time period.
So? You're saying that the CGU shouldn't be using laser and phased-plasma weapons?
If we were going to fight ground forces to take over a planet, well, what did America do in Iraq? We bombed the hell out of the enemy. Why wouldn't the CGU just do that, or use chemical or biological warfare that wouldn't destroy the planet?
They do, sometimes, but still normally use thier massive armies to take over planets.
I read someplace in your fluff that there was some kind of devastator ray like from latest Star Trek movie.
What?
Even if they did go to war and got involved in a ground conflict, it seems like it would be more of an occupation than anything else. If I were an alien race fighting a better equiped army then you either have to go underground or go home.
The Zaaroft are better equipped and have more experience than the CGUA. It's just that the CGU makes some major breakthroughs later in the war, and have much more troops.

Also, a society that has everything it wants, including a people that have no reason to hate aliens (did they attack humanity? did an alien diss the space pope? are they kilngons?) has no reason to go to war.
Like I said, the CGU propaganda drills this sentiment into the minds of the people, that alien species are the root of humanity's problems, etc. That's why they hate aliens: the government tells them to.
No nation goes to war over grievances, that is bogus.
This is more than a war of mere grievances, it is a war to exterminate the non-humans. Propaganda.
If there is no currency in the future then there is no war but to protect yourself from invaders.
Or, as I just said, it's a war of extermination. The citizens of the CGU want to destroy the non-humans, but thier opinion on the matter is pretty much irrelevant. The government, including the entire military, is indoctrinated with this anti-alien sentiment, and THEY are the ones that make the decisions, THEY are the ones that control the CGU, not the peasants.

Well, I think it is important for the reader in a sci-fi story to either sympathize with the mian character or feel sorry for him. Hell, that goes for almost any story, but particularly sci-fi. If you are going to write a war story, then nobody cares how he develops as a soldier, show how he becomes a man or a more self-aware human being.
I know, that's what the story is about. The raising in ranks and showing him progress as a soldier is, as I said, more of a footnote than plot.

Hmm, by my calculation that would be at its fastest about 4o,oo times the speed of light, which seems a bit comic bookish if you ask me.
My whole beef with the economy thing has been stated, I don't think I have to repeat myself. But let me say that this is a major fallacy in your story, and it makes it look extremely amateurish, to be expected for a first timer, but that doesn't mean you can't change it.
So, what, do you think they should move like a slug in hyperspace?

First off, I don't think that humanity has a "natural lust" for blood,
I do.
we are essentially upright monkeys, have you seen a blood-thirsty monkey? or a power-hungry monkey? And I don't see that many people walking around with a lust for glory, that just sounds like fantasy,
Alexander, Genghis Khan, Napoleon Bonaparte, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, Idi Amin, Bokassa, etc. These men are bloodthirsty, powerhungry, glory-lusting maniacs. And you say that you've never heard of a human like that. :rolleyes:

Also, please listen up, nobody cares about sci-fi that has no ties to our contemporary human experience. Don't write sci-fi that shows an unrealistic view of the future because nobody will buy it except little boys, b/c it is the stuff of fantasy. If you want to write something that resonates, then it has to be steeped in the words, ideas, and events of the here and now. This world, as you have outlined it makes no ripples in the water, in fact as far as the metapho goes it is rather bone-dry. You have a couple of choices: either make it more realistic, like closer to home, or make it have some political or social commentary.
The CGU is supposed the mirror Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, etc. It's supposed to show how extreme things can get when certain people come into power. Allegorical to the events in the late-20s to mid-40s. Hell, the "Terran Movement", whose ideals the CGU government espouses, is almost identical to the NSDAP, except that they only hate aliens and human-alien crossbreeds.

Also, you say that you haven't even heard of 1984, Clockwork Orange, Fahrenheit 451, Ender's Game, or Starship Troopers...do yourself a favor and pick them up now. Especially Starship Troopers, don't watch the movie, read the book, it is very similar to your story, whether you intended or not. The number one rule of all writers is to "read like to write like". Sorry I have to drop the knowledge bomb on you yet again. Keep it real.
Thanks, good idea. I'll try to find these things at cheap-ass prices, 'cause I ain't spending a helluva lot on this...

The bad guy is the one who attacks first for no good reason...

Well, as I said, they have enough to feed the people, but the population is growing. They need more food and resources.

Growing population, they want and need enough to feed thier growing population, and to use as more planets as colonies, so humanity can expand outward.

Well, it just seems lame if they could terraform planets. There needs to be another reason...

Because they want to exterminate any non-humans. I've said that already, it's the CGU government's propaganda machine that gets this into people's heads. The Government espouses the Terran Movement of the 6250s, which aimed to have humanity as the dominant force, nay, the ONLY force, in the universe.

How about this, take it or leave it, the planets the aliens live on or not Earth-like. That is they have hostile atmospheres that need to be terraformed. The only way to do that is to enslave alien races into working in factories to change the planet to suit humanity. Or maybe the government has other reasons for capturing aliens alive and not bombing them. My main point is that there needs to be a good point for a ground war, just make it up. Saying that the propaganda says it is so it is so is not enough, why do the propaganda agents want this? What is their deal in all this?

So? You're saying that the CGU shouldn't be using laser and phased-plasma weapons?

Laser and plasma weapons are in our near future, saying they would still be using it in the far far future seems silly. Also, every shitty sci-fi universe uses lasers, they make no sense, they take too much energy and seem improbable for a few different reasons. Be creative, make up a new weapon. All I am saying here is 4000 years in the future I think that ground weapons and warfare will be gone entirely. You need to make a lot of creative choices that will make me believe, just saying that is what it is like is not enough. If the CGU developed from our Earth then you have some rules to follow, seeing that it is set so far in the future though you also need to break some rules. So moving at massive super-speed of light travel is cool

[QUOTE=Hapsburg]They do, sometimes, but still normally use thier massive armies to take over planets.

I read someplace that the CGU had weapons that destroyed biological creatures in a huge cloud. Anyway, if they have options of killing enemies without losing human lives why not just use them? That seems like it would be more efficient, costly, logical. Does it have something to do with propaganda?

The Zaaroft are better equipped and have more experience than the CGUA. It's just that the CGU makes some major breakthroughs later in the war, and have much more troops.

Personally I don't give a crap about the war. It seems moot. Why should I, or any other reader, care if humans or aliens live or die in your story. There are other parts of this story that I care more about. If you want this to be a war story then your hero needs a noble cause....more on that below....

Like I said, the CGU propaganda drills this sentiment into the minds of the people, that alien species are the root of humanity's problems, etc. That's why they hate aliens: the government tells them to.

This is more than a war of mere grievances, it is a war to exterminate the non-humans. Propaganda.

So, the aliens are not the real enemy in your story. They haven't really done anything wrong. It sounds like the propaganda is the antagonist. Lets read a little more into this...

Or, as I just said, it's a war of extermination. The citizens of the CGU want to destroy the non-humans, but thier opinion on the matter is pretty much irrelevant. The government, including the entire military, is indoctrinated with this anti-alien sentiment, and THEY are the ones that make the decisions, THEY are the ones that control the CGU, not the peasants.

Ok, you have just made a plot right there. I think that your main character should not be fighting aliens, or if he does that should be a footnote, as it is in a way in Starship Troopers. The true enemy in your story, as it is in any war, is the government that lies to its people about the facts in order to go to war. I think your main character should come to realize this over the course of the story. Maybe he fights against the CGU in the end? I think that I would root for a hero that goes up against the totalitarian CGU.

I know, that's what the story is about. The raising in ranks and showing him progress as a soldier is, as I said, more of a footnote than plot.

Good, because that sounded bogus

So, what, do you think they should move like a slug in
hyperspace?

Nah, 4000 years in the future disbelief has been suspended.

Alexander, Genghis Khan, Napoleon Bonaparte, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, Idi Amin, Bokassa, etc. These men are bloodthirsty, powerhungry, glory-lusting maniacs. And you say that you've never heard of a human like that. :rolleyes:

Those are all leaders of men, but your story isn't going to be about the Chancellor of Germany or whatever, right? It is going to focus on a peasant, say a Serf from Russia, or a peasant turned soldier under any of those other ruthless killers. Most of them have had case files on them that said they were mentally depraved. I for one when somebody says the word "Humanity" do not think of Pol Pot or Milosevic, and I would not say that the majority of any race, nation, or religion could be represented by the worst among them. Even your average German under Hitler were more guilty of apathy than anything else, he/she did not condone killing jews. Your average Stalin era russian was more a victim than a killer. From the sound of your fluff it sounds like you want the audience to empathize with an average person, and not the dictator.

The CGU is supposed the mirror Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, etc. It's supposed to show how extreme things can get when certain people come into power. Allegorical to the events in the late-20s to mid-40s. Hell, the "Terran Movement", whose ideals the CGU government espouses, is almost identical to the NSDAP, except that they only hate aliens and human-alien crossbreeds.

Well, when you sell your story to people, start with the above statement and then go on to other sections of the plot. I think that that allegory is and will be the main focus of your writing. Everything else is added onto that basic plot structure, also everything else is pretty much just icing on the cake, and it doesn't really matter what flavor it is just so long as it is there. The cake itself is formed by the above statement....work backward from there.

Thanks, good idea. I'll try to find these things at cheap-ass prices, 'cause I ain't spending a helluva lot on this...

Here is a starting-off point. Your local libray will have all these books, and most likely multiple copies. And I am sure you could find a paperback of each on for like 8 bucks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers

Also, their books man, and some of the best books ever written. Whatever money you invest will not be sorely spent, if anything books will give you the most bang for your buck. If that is your attitude towards books, then you might as well put down your quill and ink right now...

I know I might seem like a dick asking you questions like this, but all first drafts will need to go through heavy revisions, and believe me your ideas needed some rough questioning. Anyway, keep up the core writing and wait until the end to theorize about vehicle armor strength or ground tactics.

-ZERO MASS

Well, it just seems lame if they could terraform planets. There needs to be another reason...
Well, I could change it. I'll make the final decision after consulting the co-creator.


How about this, take it or leave it, the planets the aliens live on or not Earth-like. That is they have hostile atmospheres that need to be terraformed. The only way to do that is to enslave alien races into working in factories to change the planet to suit humanity. Or maybe the government has other reasons for capturing aliens alive and not bombing them. My main point is that there needs to be a good point for a ground war, just make it up. Saying that the propaganda says it is so it is so is not enough, why do the propaganda agents want this? What is their deal in all this?
Hmmm....I like the idea. It makes sense. I'll have to consult with weston, but this seems to fit well with it.

Laser and plasma weapons are in our near future, saying they would still be using it in the far far future seems silly. Also, every shitty sci-fi universe uses lasers, they make no sense, they take too much energy and seem improbable for a few different reasons. Be creative, make up a new weapon. All I am saying here is 4000 years in the future I think that ground weapons and warfare will be gone entirely. You need to make a lot of creative choices that will make me believe, just saying that is what it is like is not enough. If the CGU developed from our Earth then you have some rules to follow, seeing that it is set so far in the future though you also need to break some rules. So moving at massive super-speed of light travel is cool.
What would you suggest besides laser weapons and beam rifles? I chose them because they're simple, and in the future, they'd be put into a compact enough form to be used as rifles and sidearms.
SIDE NOTE: The Stormguard often uses lightning rifles, pretty much a tesla coil gun, would that be something along the lines of what you're thinking?

I read someplace that the CGU had weapons that destroyed biological creatures in a huge cloud. Anyway, if they have options of killing enemies without losing human lives why not just use them? That seems like it would be more efficient, costly, logical. Does it have something to do with propaganda?
Not enough material to make enough Blue Rinse for every Zaaroft-owned planet. They only use it large-scale on planets with MASSIVE zaaroft population, or in smaller amounts in airstrikes. Though the CGU has enough metal and food and etc. for their people and ships, they don't have enough of the materials used to make the Blue Rinse chemical.


So, the aliens are not the real enemy in your story. They haven't really done anything wrong. It sounds like the propaganda is the antagonist. Lets read a little more into this...
No, the aliens are the antagonists. They're the non-humans. What they've done wrong is be aliens.

Ok, you have just made a plot right there. I think that your main character should not be fighting aliens, or if he does that should be a footnote, as it is in a way in Starship Troopers. The true enemy in your story, as it is in any war, is the government that lies to its people about the facts in order to go to war. I think your main character should come to realize this over the course of the story. Maybe he fights against the CGU in the end? I think that I would root for a hero that goes up against the totalitarian CGU.
Ah, but your statement is based on the premise that the CGU government is lying to it's people...;)

Nah, 4000 years in the future disbelief has been suspended.
Good, because that's the root of all of the technology mentioned in it.

Those are all leaders of men, but your story isn't going to be about the Chancellor of Germany or whatever, right? It is going to focus on a peasant, say a Serf from Russia, or a peasant turned soldier under any of those other ruthless killers. Most of them have had case files on them that said they were mentally depraved. I for one when somebody says the word "Humanity" do not think of Pol Pot or Milosevic, and I would not say that the majority of any race, nation, or religion could be represented by the worst among them. Even your average German under Hitler were more guilty of apathy than anything else, he/she did not condone killing jews. Your average Stalin era russian was more a victim than a killer. From the sound of your fluff it sounds like you want the audience to empathize with an average person, and not the dictator.
Jason Strobol is the main character. You find out, through conversation in the story, that he has been well-indoctrinated with Terranism, and signed up for the Army the first chance he got. Eventually, we want to show him losing that indoctrination through one of the main battes, which is pretty much when the shit really hits the fan, and he starts to think about just surviving and getting his squad out safely instead of exterminating the Zaaroft.

Well, when you sell your story to people, start with the above statement and then go on to other sections of the plot. I think that that allegory is and will be the main focus of your writing. Everything else is added onto that basic plot structure, also everything else is pretty much just icing on the cake, and it doesn't really matter what flavor it is just so long as it is there. The cake itself is formed by the above statement....work backward from there.
Okay. Sounds like a plan.

Here is a starting-off point. Your local libray will have all these books, and most likely multiple copies. And I am sure you could find a paperback of each on for like 8 bucks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers

Also, their books man, and some of the best books ever written. Whatever money you invest will not be sorely spent, if anything books will give you the most bang for your buck. If that is your attitude towards books, then you might as well put down your quill and ink right now...
Danke.

I know I might seem like a dick asking you questions like this, but all first drafts will need to go through heavy revisions, and believe me your ideas needed some rough questioning. Anyway, keep up the core writing and wait until the end to theorize about vehicle armor strength or ground tactics.
Thanks, though, man. This'll really help to get the whole plot thing going.

The bad guy is the one who attacks first for no good reason...
Well that's good, because the CGU has a good reason for doing so. The Zaaroft are aliens, and therefore must be destroyed, exterminated, eliminated, slaughtered, butchered, murdered, burned, and killled with EXTREME prejudice. They're aliens. Kill 'em. Standard CGU procedure.

Hapsburg, the protagonist your humans may be, but they are cerntainly not the good guys. In their own minds, perhaps, but I doubt in the minds of the readers. What you have here is an empire of anti-heros, the main characters of the story but evil through and through. You would not be the first to do this, and it can be succesful, but you must realize that you are doing it.

Eh, I guess. I made the story on the premise that the CGU are the good guys...
Might I inquire as to why you think they are not?

You said that the CGU is based on Nazi Germany! Duh!

-ZERO MASS

Eh. Good point. :p
Okay, let me rephrase that:
Might I inquire as to why you think it is evil for them to kill aliens?

"Why is it evil for aliens to kill humans?"

Same question really.

I guess. In a way.
I just never saw a problem with them killing non-humans en masse. That's why I planned for them to be the good guys.

Hmmmm...well, since now they are the bad guys, but still the protagonists, maybe I should have that it's kinda...saddening...at the end to see Jason go along with this willingly, showing how easily a human mind can be corrupted with genocidal ideals, yet another allegory to Nazi Germany.

Exactly, which could be the underlining point of what you're writing. But, look on the bright side. At least you are being realistic about how easy it is to manipulate the masses.

Aye.
So, any other questions? Thier capabilities? Thier enemies?

I think that you have the technical side of the universe well mapped out. But like I said that should all be background information, nobody really cares how fast the spaceships move, just the fact that they move fast. What you need to work on defining is some of the how and why questions:

How does the ministry of propaganda operate in the CGU and why?
How do soldiers feel about the war and their state's crusade?
Why are the soldiers fighting? Do they believe the aliens are evil?
Why do the people that spread propaganda believe in their cause?

You know what is another good example for you to lok at, have you ever seen the movie "Enemy at the Gates" with Jude Law and Ed Harris. It is about the WW2 and the Russian's propaganda about thier sharpshooters. Take a look at it if you haven't. Also, read Starship Troopers, so very similar to your story...

-ZERO MASS

How does the ministry of propaganda operate in the CGU and why?
Exactly how do you mean "how do they work?" ? If by "how do they get the propaganda out", then I'll tell you: pretty much, newspapers, mass media, etc...and, of course, subliminal messages on vid screens in every house.

How do soldiers feel about the war and their state's crusade?
Most of them are scared about facing an enemy that is stronger, though less numbered, than they, but they are loyal and resolute to to the CGU government and the Dictator-Fuhrer, Maximilian von Compton-Wittelsbach.

Why are the soldiers fighting? Do they believe the aliens are evil?
Most of them do belive that, yes, at least in the beginning of the war. The event that sparks the war is that a Zaaroft Z-class cruiser and the CGU Nova-class Battleship Schwarzkopf attempt to communicate, and the CGU ship captain thinks that the Zaaroft are trying to hack onto the Schwarzkopf's mainframe, and fire a salvo of nuclear missiles into the Zaaroft ship. The CGU spins this event so that it seems like the Zaaroft fired first, and that the Zaaroft are the aggressive aliens. Then, they go to war, and most of the soldiers think that they are destroying an evil, aggressive, savage alien empire.

Why do the people that spread propaganda believe in their cause?
Because the men at the top of the government have convinced them to believe in this, and also spreading propaganda for the CGU Government will put them in higher standing with the main heads of the gov. Political advancement is quite the motivator.

Okay, since now we've discussed the CGU itself, let's get into thier enemies, thir mentality, thier workings.

Ask Questions, and you'll Get Answers.

Well, if you are setting up the CGU to be a fascist state then their enemies are good guys. The alien races would have to be freedom fighters, dashing warriors, or persecuted victims (the French resistance, American liberators, or Jewish holocaust victims). No matter what you make the aliens in the story you are not really going to be able to escape one of these choices or something similar.

So the enemies of the CGU are going to be closer to what a reader might think is a "good guy" in the story. If this isn't at all your intention then you may want to rethink some of the milieu’s basic tenets...

-ZERO MASS

No. The aliens are not going to be portrayed as "Good". They are aliens, for fuck's sake. How can you see aliens as good?

Actually, in the mid-point of the war, the Zaaroft adopt a policy of killing any humans they capture, and the war-council of the Zaaroft decides to eliminate humanity so that they can't be a future threat...but, then, the war starts to turn in favor of the CGU. Around 6306, which is where the book is supposed to start, about 18 years after the War began. Thier plans of eliminating humanity is essentially just a failed project on paper, and never got into full effect. But, they still had the thought of it.

The Zephyr are about as fanatic about being dominant as the CGU are, i.e they want to destroy the human race just as much as the humans want to destroy them. They actually almost succeed in destroying Terra.
The Primalis are barbaric savages, and they are too stupid to be left alive.
The Myhrrid are similar in mentality to the Zephyr.

But, the Zaaroft are most definently NOT the good guys. They are aliens. Brutish savage aliens, with high tech.

Tell me, though, why should I depict the aliens as "good guys"? They're aliens.

I'd want to be a Zaaroft weapons developer so that I could wipe the fucking human menace from the face of the universe. I'd come up with a self propagating nano weapon that would distribute itself throughout the galaxy and instantly infect any human within reach and dissolve them slowly from the inside out. Bastard humans.

No. The aliens are not going to be portrayed as "Good". They are aliens, for fuck's sake. How can you see aliens as good?

But, the Zaaroft are most definently NOT the good guys. They are aliens. Brutish savage aliens, with high tech.

Tell me, though, why should I depict the aliens as "good guys"? They're aliens.

If Humans are Nazis then their opposition has to be victims or good guys! Or you need a third party to observe both aliens and CGU fight, or this is just some stupid story about people fighting for no reason...and let me tell you this...NOBODY WILL CARE TO EVER READ IT...if that is the case

Aliens can be good guys! If your story is at all allegorical then what you are saing to the reader is "everybody that is not like you is the enemy" and people won't read shit like that. If there are two forces that both want to wipe the other out then what is the difference between them. Try this, put yourself in the shoes of the aliens...you are all being peaceful in the galaxy chillin', developing laser guns or whatever fucking shit you are having them do, then humanity comes along and tries to wipe them out because some German twat controls what everybody thinks. That makes them the victim and automatically I care more about every alien life than any human life, including that of the main character, unless he/she also feels this way.

Really though, I am going to go take a chill pill, please just think about the inane stuff you post on here. Take people's advice and either stop writing or use some more logic in your craft.

-ZERO MASS

Good point.

To clarify though: the CGU aren't "nazis", as they don't hate jews, because hating jews is not good. The CGU hates aliens, which is entirely different.
Oh, and the Zaaroft aren't as "peaceful" as you think...they have taken over and enslaved a few other aliens races, to achieve dominance in thier area.
I wasn't going to have a clear good guy/bad guy thing. I was originally going to have the morals of the thing highly convoluted and confused through politics, which would make each side seem not so much "good guy" or "bad guy" difference, but more as each of them are looking out for thier interests, and those interests conflict with each other. More like real life.

Now, any questions about the CGU's enemies? I;m really itchin' to get into this part.

If theyre against aliens and mutants, what beef would they have with the empire? My understanding of the empire is that they promote humans, while making aliens scum...

Wrong thread. That one's a bit further down the section page.

Okay, now.
The Zaaroft.
They populate a large-ish empire on the outer rim of the milky way. The average Zaaroft is about 4 meters tall, weighs around 550 kilograms, and has very powerful senses.
They have a wrinkly, leathery skin that protects them against small-cartridge weapons (such as the CGU's outdated 6.6mmx66mm M-6F rifles, still in use by some volunteer regiments), and other light weaponry. It can, however be pierced by the commonly-used 15mm autocannon round or by a laser-rifle bolt.
This is why Zaaroft assault soldiers, called Djurri, or "Legionairres" by humans, wear thick powerful armor. The armor, which covers the chest, back, shoulders, neck, and the rear part of the head, is made of some unknown material that CGU scientists have yet to identify. It is incredibly lightweight, but also incredibly strong. The armor is usually between 10 and 50 milimeters thick. The armor also has a shield generator, which gives added protection to the Djurri.
The Djurri carry large beam weapons, powered by a replaceable battery. It acts similar to a disruptor, or for you halo fans, like a miniature plamsa torpedo launcher: it fires a beam that, upon striking the target, melts and disintegrates it starting from the impact point and spreading outwards. Thier armor contains weapons, as well. Some have small pulse-lasers on them, some have tiny rocket-launchers, but all have arm-gauntlets with beam-sword emitters.
The Djurri breathe through two small nostril-slits in thier face, or by thier mouths, which do not appear on the front of thier face, but in either side of their cheeks.
Djurri are said to be strong enough to lift a car, and throw it, and can crush a man's skull into dust with ease.

The smaller of the Zaaroft races, the Gordujj, or "Initiates" as the humans call them, are about 1.7 meters tall, bulky, and mildly insane. The Gordujj have a large mouth in the front of thier faces, with large sharp teeth. They have light armor, reflective energy shields, and often use shotgun-like spreadshot laser carbines. Some use small spike-like bombs which they can stab into an opponent, and detonate using a button on the other end. Later in the war, the Zaaroft develop a weapon that fires such spike-bombs, but on a time-delay detonation instead of a manual button-press ignition.

The Zaaroft numbers are about a third the size of the CGU, but thier ships and infantry are many times larger and better than the CGU's.
Thier usual Z-class cruiser is about 6.5 kilometers long, armed to the teeth with about 5 300cm Pulse Beam Cannons, backed up by 1000 dual 38cm Pulse Lasers, and 1000 plasma missile launchers. These massive behemoths are the main reason the CGU delevops the Dreadnought-class battleship. The Z-class can hold about 1,000 Legionairres, twice as many Gordujj and about 36 Blade-class fighters.

More later. Please ask questions.

Now, the average Zaaroft Djurri can live for about a thousand years, Gordujj for about half that time. A high council of incredibly powerful Djurri choose one amongst them to be thier leader, who has absolute control over the Zaaroft empire. A new Imperator chosen when the previous one dies.
The Zaaroft population, territory, and industrial strength is about a third the size of the CGU's, but as you can tell by the descriptions of thier infantry and ships, thier advantage lay in thier quality rather than thier quantity.
Zaaroft ships are generally much bigger than CGU ships, and generally are lot more powerful, better armed, stronger-armored, etc.

Leading into Zaaroft vehicles:
They are more mech-like. Anything resembling a tank are hovercraft. Most standard-issue scout or light-assault vehicles are two or four-legged mechs with large plasma or pulse-laser weaponry.

More later. Ask question, please.

Now, for hand-held weapons in the CGU universe:
The CGU Infantry's primary weapon is the AC-150 Autocannon. Has a rate of fire of about 2300 rounds per minute, and a range of 800 meters, but is more often used in ranges of 50 to 300 meters. It uses 15mmx96mm AP ammunition, and is fed from 50-round drum mag. There is also a smaller type, the SAC-600B, the sub-autocannon, which fires a 10mmx60mm round from a 60-round bullpup clip. The CGU is also pressing into service the LR-25C Laser Rifle, which fires off a 66 kj beam bolt at a rate of 320 round per minute, from a replaceable battery that provides enough energy for 30 shots. The LR-25 is quite accurate, and is mos often used as a sniper's rifle or as a precision rifle.
Then, there is the DC-221, which is built to replace the AC-150. The DC-221 fires a 44 kj bolt at a rate of 800 rounds per minute, from a 100-shot battery.
Then, there are the interesting alien weapons that the CGU gained access to after they defeat the Alien Conglomerate. This includes the somewhat shortranged but very devastating Mk.IV Sonic Rifle. The Sonic Rifle fires a concentrated wave of sound that, theoretically, upon striking the opponent, can make the body and its part resonate at such a rate that the bones shatter, the heart rips itself apart, and the lungs collapse.
There is also the DR-7M Demagnetizer Rifle, which fires a beam that, upon hitting the opponent, causes the magnetic bonds that hold thier body together to stop, and the body drifts apart, and turns to molecular dust.
There are also semiautomatic and bolt-action heavy sniper rifles of calibers 7.92mm, 15mm, and 20mm used by the CGU's Storm Guard. There are also acid-spray rifles, the SG's signature Lightning Rifle, and the Shocktroops' DX Disruptor rifle, which fires .50-caliber Depleted Uranium ammunition from a 20- or 30-round clip. The CGUA also uses Rocket-Launcher and disposable Panzerfausts to take down heavier opponents.

Now, the Zephyr. The Zephyr, like the CGU, dominate the galaxy in which they live, and are highly xenophobic and racist towards most other species, with the exception of the Zaaroft and the Myrrhid (more on them later). It is interesting to note that they especially despise primates, and consider them to be the lowest of the low.
The Zephyr are, unfortunately for the CGU, much more numerous and much more dangerous than the Zaaroft.
The individual Zephyr is about 2 meters tall, and has a reptillian appearance, much like a Deinonychus, except that the Zephyr does not have reverse-jointed legs. All Zephyr have tails, about as long as thier body, and thier skin coloration varies from clan to clan. The males have feathers growing from the top of thier heads, which indicate how old they are: a new feather grows in every 10 years (by earth standards).
The Zephyr population is divided into several clans, each with thier own distinct skin coloration-stripe coloration combonation. Society is ordered around a caste system: at the top are clan Archpatrons (or Archmatrons for females), who rule their clan with absolute power are hold the most influence in the Grand Council; next are the Patrons and Matrons who act as high-priests and generals and help to make decisions in the Grand Council; then there are the priests, monks, and druids who manage the bureacracy of the organized religion of the Zephyr; next are artisans, landowners, and merchants; finally, there are the peasants, the laborers. Each clan has thier own star system to manage and each has representation in the Grand Council of the Zephyr Republic. The council elects two Archmatrons (and thus, two clans) to serve as Grand Matrons for 10 years, and then two others are elected. Obviously, since there are several million star systems, there are quite a lot of clans within the Zephyr Republic, and it sometimes makes it a bit slow to get things done and matters settled.
All Zephyr are required to serve in the military for at least 5 years, and in times of crisis, a mass levy can be instituted by the Council, and all able-bodied Zephyr aged 10 to 100 will be called up to fight.
Zephyr ships are relatively advanced, by CGU standards, and use a variety of plasma and pulse-laser weapons, which they aquired through dealings with the Zaaroft.
Thier weapons are often plasma-based energy weapons, but some of the more impetuous warriors still use swords, blade-gauntlets, pikes, and thier own teeth and claws.
They also posses a capability for great cunning and effeciency, in additon to possessing a penchant for brutality and sadistic and violent tortures.
More on these crazy fucks later...

The Zephyr, though brutal, have an advanced and highly ritualistic society. When a Zephyr male turns 10, he undertakes a rite of passage, in a ritual hunt and survival. He must survive for 24 (earth) hours in the wilds of thier planet, and slay the largest beast there and feast upon it raw. Very primitive rite, but of a very advanced species.
On thier planets, they construct massive temples and monuments in dedication to thier gods. Zephyr religion is an odd one, in which there is 2 warring races of gods, of varying powers, and the creatures of the universe are but pawns in the schemes of the gods. They have very high morals and values, and an overbearing sense of honor and pride.
The Zephyr wage war with large masses of personal mechs and infantry. The fact that they use so many light, mass-produced mechs in warfare is especially dangerous to the CGU, which uses mechs primarily for artillery and support, but not as frontline standard, to which the duty is relegated to their infantry. The Zephyr are also merciless and have a burning hatred towards humans.
So, like Rome, the Zephyr Republic is both highly advanced, civilized and cultured as well as brutal, cruel, and sadistic.

Now, somehow the CGU beats those guys, after a 28-year war.

So, they keep expanding, and happen upon yet another galaxy, and an extragalactic federation of alien species, led by the Myhrrid, a race of insect-like psychic aliens, and the Primalis, a race of large, ape-like primates. The Primalis are relatively weak, but they are very determined. Their weaponry is somewhat outdated in style, but it is powerful. Standard issue weapons to Primalis infantry is a breech-loading smoothbore longarm that fire explosive shells the size of a human fist. They also use various electified melee weapons, and such. They are quite barbaric, and thier ship technology leaves much to be desired, but they can, at least, reach extents beyone thier own star system, and form a sort of backbone to the military of this alien federation.
The average Primalis can live for about 80, maybe 90 years. They have developed a monotheistic religion, and are devoutly fanatic to it. Even though the Primalis have weak ships and weak numbers, their weaponry is powerful, yet with a slow refire rate, and they are individually powerful.
Primalis society is arranged with a group of nobles leading a mass of laborers. Not a happy existence for the majority of the Primalis population, but when the CGU invades, they organize to defend themselves and to survive.

Hapsburg, those things are getting pwned. So no.

Now...onto more pleasant things. Now, just because the CGU is scifi, does not mean that it's all spaceships and laser guns. Various fauna and flora play a significant part in the CGU's culture of human supremacy, especially as far the human accomplishments in genetic engineering...

Since the CGU and humanity exists 4 millenia into the future, genetic engineering technology has made massive strides. by manipulating DNA, scientists are now able to create new, larger, and more deadly species of existing animals. One such example on CGU-era earth fauna is the infamous and gigantic Carcharodon Imperator, or Emperor-Shark. It is descended from the Carcharodon Rex, an earlier attempt at creating a modern Megalodon. The C. Imperator is, however, many times the size of a Great White Shark. Whereas Carcharodon carcharias maxed out at around 9 meters or so, this newer predator grows to over 24 meters long, and weighs as much as 20 tons. They quickly became the top predators in the sea, feasting on whales as well as older great-white sharks.
Whales went through a rapid evolutionary response, unprecedented in speed and scale. Blue whales and other such baleen whales, which had become the main diet of the C. Imperator, ballooned in size from 30 meters and 140 tons to 40 meter, 200-ton creatures. Orca whales also expanded accordingly, becoming faster, sleeker, and deadlier hunters.
Wolves, lions, etc. underwent evolutionary changes during the 4000-year reign of the Wittelsbachs, and up through the CGU's foundation. Wolves grew in size, became more intelligent, and evolved into better packhunters. The infamous Polar Bear of the Arctic region became steadily a bigger, and a more dangerous, predator. Snakes, monitor lizards, and other repitles slowly began to dominate thier respective habitats once more, in the examples of the Eunectes Magnus, or Greater Anaconda, which grow up to 19 meters long, and became renowned for thier effortless hunting of jaguars. Combined with the Earth Government's long policy of environmental protection, fauna and flora flourished in the 4000 years between the foundation of the Earth Alliance and the foundation of the CGU.
The CGU's predecessor, the Wittelsbach monarchy, had genetically engineered and reproduced dinosaurids from fossil remnants. These included the Tyrannosaurus Rex, Spinosaurus, Diplodocus, etc...but later on, in the late 5900s, they began to enhance the existing species and create better, stronger, faster, deadlier saurids. This led to the Tyrannosaurus Imperator, or Tyrant Lizard Emperor, a 53-foot behemoth that grew to nearly 10 tons. The experiments also produced the massive stalker, Megaraptor Giganticus, which the CGU keeps in zoological gardens as main attractions. There is also a semidomesticated Albertosaurus Domesticus Militaris, or Domestic Military Albertan Lizard. These genetically modified Albertosaurs act essentially as ceremonial mounts for StormGuard Bannerbearers in military parades, and as massive guard-dogs at the Dictator's residence at the Maximilianshof Palace in Munich.
One such example:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/Hapsburg/CGUallosaur.png

Besides these, larger versions of eagles, hawks, falcons, gulls, pelicans, herons, re-engineered teratorns, and other flying animals exist as part of the futuristic fauna of the CGUverse. And these are just the animals in the human's planets. The various creatures in the alien-owned words vary greatly from terran animals, but fufill similar roles.

First off, how have economies become outdated? It is very difficult to have a society that is not based on commerce, and it is even more difficult to transition from a commerce based economy to another. Why do people work if everything is free? Is it a socialist or communistic society? You say it is a Nazi society but they were capitalists, what is the modern day analogy to the CGU society?
Okay, well, then I'll have that corporations exist in the CGU...just nationalized and partially controlled by the government.
Now, what to use for the currency system?

Additionally, I've made some other changes. First off, the CGU's massive capital-ship reactors fuse heavy hydrogen atoms to generate huge amounts of energy. They produce enough energy to power the ion drives, shields, and weapons systems.
What took them so long to develop hand-held energy weapons, you ask? It took human scientists many centuries to minimize the fusion reactors, perfect the minature reactors, turn them into fuel cells, and then minimize the fuel cells into something the size of a firearm's magazine. This is why they don't develop a practical, mass-produced, and powerful laser rifle until 6289, and don't create a rapid-fire beam rifle until 6301.

Now, why don't they just get rid of it alltogether, and simply use orbital bombardment? Simple: Zaaroft-controlled planets are well-defended, and have heavy antiship beam and ion cannons. The time it takes to stay in orbit to strategically target and destroy locations gives the enemy enough time to target thier own antiship weapons. Add to this, that the high-yield beam cannons and nuclear weapons mounted of CGU ships do a lot of collateral and environment damage. To this end, the CGU uses dropships and aerial carriers, much smaller than a starship, to land troops. These smaller ships are a smaller target, and are harder to hit. Using thier ground troops, the CGUA can capture the planet with minmal collateral and environmental damage.
As for the "blue rinse" weapons previously discussed? Those are only developed in the last few years of the war, and the CGU uses those on planets that have no economic value whatsoever, but are still populated by the enemy.

So, any questions?

If not, I shall continue soon with information on the main character, Jason Marcus Strobol, and other characters in the story.

A basic rundown of the main character:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/Hapsburg/JasonStrobol.png

SUBJECT: Strobol, Jason Marcus.
SPECIES: Homo sapiens sapiens.
BORN: October 7, 6280.
BIRTHPLACE: Ludwigsburg, Outreach.
HAIR COLOR: Dark brown.
EYE COLOR: Green.
ETHNIC ORIGIN: Anglo-Irish-Prussian.
RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION: Roman Catholic.
SERVICE NUMBER: IR-1007JS.
UNIT: Blue Squad, 1st Platoon, 88th Infantry Battalion, 6005th Infantry Regiment, Beta Squadron.
FAMILY:
Marcus Riley Strobol, father, SG-Oberststurmbannführer
Kelsey Alexandrina Strobol, mother, civilian.
Alexander Michael Strobol, brother, Shocktrooper Officer
Kaarina Sylvia Rodericksson, fiancee, civilian.

Edited the site, now has a lot more information on the pre-CGU history. Also, have merged the Nuke/Hacker timeline with CGU timeline for plot purposes and for simplicity's sake (don't want to have too many timelines, eh.).

Okay. Well, this has been dormant for a while. I have done a lot of re-structuring of it in the meantime. I've created a timeline of events, which can be read and followed here:
http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=33745

I have additonally toned down a lot of the crazier stuff and tried to create reasons for the stuff I've kept, and make a thicker plotline, connecting the CGUverse to my older Hackerverse with a even more character-driven focus.

Additonally, me and my friends have redone it to have 2 characters to be used in the first story: Alexander Strobol, and his younger brother of Jason Strobol. Alexander is going to die at the end of book 1, though. Jason survives and will be the central character in the second story, covering the first half of the Zephyr War. We have not yet decided if Jason will die in that, though.

Your ideas and drawings are trite and uninteresting. You epitomize the essence of bad SciFi.

Your ideas and drawings are trite and uninteresting. You epitomize the essence of bad SciFi.

Ouch.

Your ideas and drawings are trite and uninteresting. You epitomize the essence of bad SciFi.
Well, you start a sci-fi story from scratch, make a thread of it, and develop it over three years, and let's see if you can do better. It takes a while to get out all the wrinkles in the story. If you have ever written fiction, you would know this.
As for the drawings...most of the ones in this thread are old and no longer accurate to my ideas. Besides, paint is a very basic program. It's hard to add realistic detail to things.

Adventure game sounds more interesting.

Well, there's no reason my ideas cannot be developed into an adventure/action game. Me and my friends have actually thought of how it could be placed into an MMORPG setting and an FPS setting.