I recently came across an interesting idea in print.

Some early religions tended to be pantheistic. The Romans, for example, had a plethora of gods. When the Christians arrived they steadfastly refused to believe in the Roman gods. In fact, Christians refuse to believe in all the gods historically worshipped by man, save only one.

But that implies that Christians are atheists!

Thus, I sincerely welcome my Christian brothers into the fold of atheists. We are not so different after all. Both you and I refuse to believe in a vast number of gods. I have just chosen to believe in one fewer god than you.

Best wishes,
Michael (a most devout atheist)

nice point! why should Jahve be better thn others.
but unfortunately it is smth like atheism, because in atheism there are no spiritual beings, while in christianity, there are angels, demons, Jahve etc.

*Originally posted by orthogonal
In fact, Christians refuse to believe in all the gods historically worshipped by man, save only one.*

Hate to burst your bubble, but only idiots refuse to believe in something that is so obviously there.

Explain again how believing in 3,999,999,999 gods makes you an atheist?

Actually, orthogonal, Jews were the first to believe in only one God. Christians and muslims stemmed off from judaism and twisted everything. Thats why there was so much hatred between us and the romans, egyptians, etc. But the romans and egyptians and their religions are gone, while ours is still here.

Anyway I do believe in God but not the way most gouys think of him, and even alot of Jews have a distorted vision of God. Thats why there is so much conflict between athiests and theists. Sure God can be categorized scientifically, but I dont think its fair to say some guy who popped out of a 'virgin', is God.

Elbaz. You are not correct. Egyptians were the first ones, who had monotheism.
Egyptians also had one god beleif at one period of their history(18th dinasty). but all the people who were close to it were murdered or laughed at after the death of pharon. The religion of only one god Amon Ra, the God of Sun was introduced by the father of Tutanhamon(spelling) Akhenaten.(it was a monotheistic religion )
it is beleived tht Moses took the idea of monotheism when learning in egyptian court.



here is even the hymn to the God written by Akhenaten. It has preserved carved in stone to this day

The Great Hymn to the Aten(other name of Aton/Amon)

Inscription, West wall of the tomb of Ay, Tell el-Amarna

When you set in western lightland,
Earth is in darkness as if in death;
One sleeps in chambers, heads covered,
One eye does not see another,
Were they robbed of their goods,
That are under their heads,
People would not remark it,
Every lion comes from its den,
All the serpents bite;
Darkness hovers, earth is silent,
As their maker rests in lightland.
Earth brightens when you dawn in lightland,
When you shine as Aten of daytime;
As you cast your rays,
The Two Lands are in festivity.
Awake they stand on their feet,
You have roused them;
Bodies cleansed, clothed,
Their arms adore your appearance.
The entire land sets out to work,
All beasts browse on their herbs;
Trees, herbs are sprouting,
Birds fly from their nests,
Their wings greeting your ka,
All flocks frisk on their feet,
All that fly up and alight,
They live when you dawn for them.
Ships fare north, fare south as well,
Roads lie open when you rise;
The fish in the river dart before you,
Your rays are in the midst of the sea.
Who makes seed grow in women,
Who creates people from sperm;
Who feeds the son in his mother's womb,
Who soothes him to still his tears.
Nurse in the womb,
Giver of breath,
To nourish all that he made,
When he comes from the womb to breathe,
On the day of his birth,
You open wide his mouth,
You supply his needs.
When the chick in the egg speaks in the shell,
You give him breath within to sustain him;
When you have made him complete,
To break out from the egg,
He comes out from the egg,
To announce his completion,
Walking on his legs he comes from it.

(Lichtheim 1976: 97-8)

Source: Nicolas Grimal. A History of Ancient Egypt. Ian Shaw, translator. Oxford: Basil Blackwell Ltd., 1992 (english translation).


zoroastrism also is an ancient monotheist religion

Dear Tony,

May I suggest that you don't use words such as "idiot" in your future discussions? People respond so much better to kind words.

Tony, I honestly don't understand the point you are making in your reply. Either you misunderstood my post or I misunderstand your reply. Either way, we aren't connecting. Could you elaborate?

In the bigger picture, I have for a while wanted to respectfully ask you why you bother discussing philosophical issues at all? Is there anything I could possibly write that would change your opinion about the way the world functions? I have my own opinions at the moment. But a difference between you and me appears to be that I'm willing to change my ideas when a better idea comes along.

I've no idea where I'll end up in life. Though it's not probable, I could end my days spinning a prayer wheel in Tibet, or weeding the garden in a Catholic Monastary. The beauty of it all is that I don't know where this rich world of ideas will lead me as long as I'm open to change. Change is life Tony. Dead and inanimate things remain forever fixed.

The search for truth and philosophical comfort is not a competitive race with winners and losers. The most glorious ideas need no blood sacrifice to preserve them. They need no champions. They will live or die on their own merits. Please don't take this as criticism, but you might force open just a tiny crack in your armor. I for one will not try to put a spear through it. For a thinking man such as yourself, a fresh breeze of new ideas is one of the great joys and excitements of life.

Regards,
Michael

OH my!

believing in sooooooo many GODS is sooooooo scientific!


division of labour you see to run the world...:D:D




bye!

Hey Elbaz and Avatar,

Thanks for your replies.

Actually, I've no idea which religion first came up with the idea of monotheisim. One estimate given by A.F.C. Wallace in his book Religion: An Anthropological View is that there have existed approximately 100000 culturally distinct religions in human history. It stands to reason that just about any variation of the "great spirit in the sky" theme has been believed at one time or another.

Michael

I said tht tht Egyptian beleif was first monotheistic belief.
But I think tht more correct would be to day tht it is the most ancient monotheist religion known to this day.

*Originally posted by Elbaz
Jews were the first to believe in only one God.*

Not possible.
Jews believe in many gods, otherwise the following makes no sense.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
(Exodus 20:3, KJV).

Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments:
(Genesis 35:2, KJV).

*Originally posted by Avatar
Egyptians were the first ones, who had monotheism.*

They still don't have a single God.

For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
(Exodus 12:12, KJV).

*Originally posted by orthogonal
Tony, I honestly don't understand the point you are making in your reply. Either you misunderstood my post or I misunderstand your reply.*

You were saying that you believe in one less god than I do, or than any Christian does.
Since I believe in probably trillions, one less is still in the trillions.

So, how does believing in trillions of gods make you an atheist?

*I have for a while wanted to respectfully ask you why you bother discussing philosophical issues at all?*

It's fun watching people slowly spinning in the breeze as they hoist themselves by their own petard.
Besides, someone may realize that they aren't facing reality, and change their mind.

*Is there anything I could possibly write that would change your opinion about the way the world functions?*

Beats me. Try writing something.

*But a difference between you and I appears to be that I'm willing to change my ideas when a better idea comes along.*

No, you're not.
I was willing, so I did change my mind to the better idea.
Since, you're in the same boat I was in prior to changing my mind, I know you haven't changed yours.

*Change is life Tony.*

Don't I know it.
I started by changing my mind.

Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
(Isaiah 43:19, KJV).

Christianity is all about change and new things.
Atheism and science are the dried-up corpses of lost human potential.

*The search for truth and philosophical comfort is not a competitive race with winners and losers.*

Sure, it is.
You might try winning a race once in a while and observe how the losers always come up just after a big win, with almost identical words.

*but you might force open just a tiny crack in your armor.*

That IS a clever one.
Ho ho ho, just a reminder of Satan Claus.

*Originally posted by zion
division of labour you see to run the world.*

See, you're getting it.
It's not that tough.

Sorry Tony. With all your bible quotes I mistook you for a normal Christian. Still you might understand my confusion, since all the Christians I've ever met start their prayers with words such as;

"I believe in one God, the father almighty, creator of heaven and earth...."

But I now see you've got your own little thing going on there. I don't have a problem with that.

I do have a problem with your stated intentions however. You are in a battle against those that disagree with you, effectively the entire population of the planet. It's absolutely pointless. Should you one day tire of fighting the world and wish instead to have a discussion, I'll be pleased to correspond with you. As for now, you are the first, and hopefully the last person to go on my ignore list.

Good luck to you,
Michael

*Originally posted by orthogonal
Sorry Tony. With all your bible quotes I mistook you for a normal Christian. Still you might understand my confusion, since all the Christians I've ever met start their prayers with words such as;

"I believe in one God, the father almighty, creator of heaven and earth...."*

I can see where you might become confused.
Those guys aren't the Bible-believers.

Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.
(Exodus 18:11, KJV).

See where it says "all gods?"
Those other guys think that isn't in the Bible.

*But I now see you've got your own little thing going on there. I don't have a problem with that.*

I don't know how "little" it is, since it's called Christianity.
Perhaps you've heard of that?

* As for now, you are the first, and hopefully the last person to go on my ignore list.*

Oh no!
And stated so calmly and rationally, too!
It's too bad your "one less god" approach went over like a lead balloon.

I'm confused.
Correct me if I'm wrong ....you say you believe in more than one God but you seem to have no problem stating that *Jesus is Lord* under your screen name. Doesn't that imply that there is only one Lord? It doesn't say "Jesus is one of many Lords" but that Jesus is the Lord.
It seems that your religion changes everytime you open your mouth...or type at your computer. You use the bible verse by verse to prove a point. But many times the bible has to be taken as a whole in order to get to whole picture. When it states that "You shall have no other god before me" or that "the Lord is greater than all gods" it doesn't mean that there are more than one REAL Lord. It simply means that you can't make your own gods. Men make up there own holy beings, take the golden calf that Moses' people worshiped. Those are the "gods" we are warned against.
Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong I'm a tough girl :D
-JS
*by the way* I'm praying for you dude! :D

*Originally posted by JesusSaves
Correct me if I'm wrong ....you say you believe in more than one God but you seem to have no problem stating that *Jesus is Lord* under your screen name. Doesn't that imply that there is only one Lord? It doesn't say "Jesus is one of many Lords" but that Jesus is the Lord.*

Jesus is the Lord of lords.

These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
(Revelation 17:14, KJV).

*It seems that your religion changes everytime you open your mouth...or type at your computer.*

It only seems that way.
You see, you have been taught your doctrine crooked.
When you see someone else who's doctrine is straight, you think you're straight and the other guy is crooked.

I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
(Isaiah 45:2, KJV).

*You use the bible verse by verse to prove a point. But many times the bible has to be taken as a whole in order to get to whole picture. When it states that "You shall have no other god before me" or that "the Lord is greater than all gods" it doesn't mean that there are more than one REAL Lord.*

Sounds great, except that God seemed to think there were other gods.

Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;
(Deuteronomy 6:14, KJV).

If they weren't really there, who would you go after?

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
(Isaiah 45:5, KJV).

There is no God BESIDE our God.
Why do you think Jesus told Satan to get BEHIND him?"

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
(2 Corinthians 4:4, KJV).

Satan is the god of this world, and he is behind God, not beside or before.

*It simply means that you can't make your own gods. Men make up there own holy beings, take the golden calf that Moses' people worshiped. Those are the "gods" we are warned against.*

I hope you realize that no one would bow down to a stick if nothing ever happened.
People may be relatively stupid over the long haul, but no one is THAT stupid.
The reason those "made-up" gods are prohibited is that demons show up, and they are the actual "other gods" that end up being worshipped.
No one actually worships sticks.

*Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong I'm a tough girl :D *

Good.
Your armor makes you bulletproof.
Make sure you wear it.

**by the way* I'm praying for you dude! :D *

You can imagine that there are a lot of people praying for me.
Interestingly, most prayers go something like this: "Oh Lord God, Tony is completely nuts. Please, please, open his eyes, and reveal to him the truth instead of what he's saying now. And please heal his brain and his mind."

The funny thing is after years of prayers like that, people always seem to wonder why their prayers don't work.
They do, but they just don't know it.
God lays the revelation on pretty heavy sometimes, so I know the prayers work

BTW, I don't worship all the gods I believe are there, just our Father God.

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
(Acts 17:11, KJV).

Originally posted by Elbaz
Actually, orthogonal, Jews were the first to believe in only one God. Christians and muslims stemmed off from judaism and twisted everything. Thats why there was so much hatred between us and the romans, egyptians, etc. But the romans and egyptians and their religions are gone, while ours is still here.

Anyway I do believe in God but not the way most gouys think of him, and even alot of Jews have a distorted vision of God. Thats why there is so much conflict between athiests and theists. Sure God can be categorized scientifically, but I dont think its fair to say some guy who popped out of a 'virgin', is God.


Care to explain how muslims and christian twisted the whole thing?.:rolleyes:

Tony1,
How many times do I have to tell you that jesus is not God, He can't be. Do you want me to go through it all again. I just gave you many verses from Bible where jesus trying to tell stupid people that he is not God. In other words he was trying and trying hard to tell people that he is not God and trying to tell them to worship only the father in Heaven. What part you don't understand. You may be bible expert but how come it is so easy for you to ignore many verses and repeat just your favourite ones.

What is so difficult about it?. Please help me out here.

I should rephrase,
Jews were the first major religion to believe in one god.

I heard that they egyptians believed in amon ra as a primary god, rather than an only one, like believing in zues as the highest.
and tony, christians twisted by idolizing what we consider a false messiah. They took him as God and disobeyed the first commandment.

Muslims twisted it by doing the same thing with Mohammed. There are a few other things but I dont have the time right now to explain it all. I'll be back.......

Originally posted by Elbaz
I heard that they egyptians believed in amon ra as a primary god, rather than an only one, like believing in zues as the highest.
and tony, christians twisted by idolizing what we consider a false messiah. They took him as God and disobeyed the first commandment.




The nature of Akhenaten's revolution is well established--he overthrew Egyptian polytheism in favor of the worship of a single god, Aten--but the reason behind it is still unknown. Many people have offered theories.
When historians first began to study Akhenaten carefully, in the late 1800s, the first thing that naturally came to everyone's mind was that Akhenaten was divinely inspired. However, it does not seem likely that Akhenaten simply decided out of the blue to make such a major change.............

for further info check http://www.heptune.com/Akhnaten.html&isbol=0

Originally posted by Elbaz
I should rephrase,
Jews were the first major religion to believe in one god.

I heard that they egyptians believed in amon ra as a primary god, rather than an only one, like believing in zues as the highest.
and tony, christians twisted by idolizing what we consider a false messiah. They took him as God and disobeyed the first commandment.

Muslims twisted it by doing the same thing with Mohammed. There are a few other things but I dont have the time right now to explain it all. I'll be back.......

As far as I know muslims do not believe that Mohammad is God or son of God they believe that he was just a messanger or Prohpet of God. Same goes for Jesus.

Originally posted by Tony1
It only seems that way.
You see, you have been taught your doctrine crooked.
When you see someone else who's doctrine is straight, you think you're straight and the other guy is crooked.


Okay Tony,
I have heard soooooo much about this religion of yours. Would you care to tell me what type of christian it is? Catholic, Baptist, Mormon? Just curious b/c I have never talked to anyone, besides you, who believes what you believe. Never.
Thanks bunches, have a nice day:D
-JS

*Originally posted by Markx
Tony1,
How many times do I have to tell you that jesus is not God, He can't be. Do you want me to go through it all again.*

Thanks, but the idea of an antichristian preaching is kind of funny, in that the point is there but gets missed.

*I just gave you many verses from Bible where jesus trying to tell stupid people that he is not God.*

I'm not 100% sure what you're getting at there.
Are you saying that you're one of the stupid people that Jesus was saying he was not God to?

*In other words he was trying and trying hard to tell people that he is not God and trying to tell them to worship only the father in Heaven. What part you don't understand. You may be bible expert but how come it is so easy for you to ignore many verses and repeat just your favourite ones.

What is so difficult about it?. Please help me out here. *

What part of what I said confused you so much?
I thought I implied that I agreed with the verses you posted.

*Originally posted by Elbaz
Jews were the first major religion to believe in one god. *

How can that be when everything in the Torah talks about more than one God?
Not only that, but the Jews were obviously busy believing in piles of gods, since God had to tell them to quit worshipping them.
So, where does this idea of Jewish "monotheism" come from, when the OT is full of examples of Jews obviously believing in many different gods?

*Originally posted by JesusSaves
I have heard soooooo much about this religion of yours.*

Good, since it is in the Bible.

*Would you care to tell me what type of christian it is?*

Bible-believing.
More specifically, God-believing.

*I have never talked to anyone, besides you, who believes what you believe. Never.*

That's because Satan is smarter than the average Christian.
He doesn't bother lying to you, because he knows that if he fills the Bible colleges with garbage, the graduates will pass it on to you, without him lifting a finger.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
(2 Corinthians 11:14,15, KJV).

BTW, believing what I believe is as easy as reading the Bible once in a while and asking God what he meant when he inspired it.

You see, there are many, many doctrines preached which are completely haywire.
"Hell" is one good example.
Many people believe the "Casper, the friendly ghost" version.
Why?
Because they never bothered to read the Bible.
If they had, they'd have seen verses like...

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
(Revelation 14:10, KJV).

They would have seen from that verse, along with similar verses, that the torment is going to happen in the presence of the Lamb.
Thus, either Jesus is going to be in Hell, or Hell isn't what people think it is.

They'd have seen verses like the following...

But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
(Psalms 37:20, KJV).

From that, and similar verses, it can be seen that fire actually burns up whatever is thrown into it, as contrasted with the unusually cold fire that would have to be found in the cartoon hell, which doesn't actually burn anyone.

Etc.

Try reading what your Bible says instead of what people tell you it says.
Don't get sucked in by someone with "authority" who may well never have read the Bible.

From a personal example, I actually attended a church, and its leadership training program, where I ran into a pastor who bragged about not having read his Bible for 10 years.
He said he merely preached the recommended sermon for the day.
Obviously, if you've been taught by someone like that, your doctrine is going to be very crooked, but you won't notice unless you check for yourself.

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
(Acts 17:11, KJV).

Tony the Bible says those that are decieved...do not KNOW they are decieved. So how do YOU know that you are not decieved and those "other" people are right?

Is 44:20 He feeds on ashes; a deceived heart has turned him aside. And he cannot deliver himself, nor say, "Is there not a lie in my right hand?"

*Originally posted by Taken
Tony the Bible says those that are decieved...do not KNOW they are decieved. So how do YOU know that you are not decieved and those "other" people are right?*

Simple.
That verse I was talking about earlier spells it out.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
(Galatians 6:7, KJV).

It starts out with deception and then proceeds to mocking AND it is talking about money.

If I were deceived then the next thing I would do is mock God, and specifically about money.

I didn't do that, YOU did.
Therefore as long as you're doing that AND disagreeing with me, I'm OK.
Among other things.

It is NOT talking about your almighty MONEY.
What we soweth is what we DO ...Bible clearly states if we forgive we will be forgiven, if we are mercifull we will attain mercy, if we are faithfull then He will be faithfull to us...and the opposite holds too...if we are unforgiving we will be unforgiven etc etc etc. We sow hate we reap hate...we sow love we reap love....we sow righteousness we reap righteousness.

You honestly think the entire purpose of creation and the divine purpose of life revolves around MONEY and material WEALTH? What does God need with gold? Of what value does it have to Him?
Tony you ARE deceived!

*Originally posted by Taken
It is NOT talking about your almighty MONEY.
What we soweth is what we DO ...Bible clearly states if we forgive we will be forgiven, if we are mercifull we will attain mercy, if we are faithfull then He will be faithfull to us...and the opposite holds too...if we are unforgiving we will be unforgiven etc etc etc. We sow hate we reap hate...we sow love we reap love....we sow righteousness we reap righteousness.*

Right, and when we give money we reap money.
Duh.

*You honestly think the entire purpose of creation and the divine purpose of life revolves around MONEY and material WEALTH? What does God need with gold? Of what value does it have to Him?
Tony you ARE deceived! *

You're a little late.
God doesn't need gold because he's giving it away.
The entire purpose of creation revolves around God.
However, God is aware that we have some need of things, unlike you who seems to think that you are so pure and holy as to not need any, unless your husband is getting paid well, in which case, it's not so bad, and so on....

In any case, first comes deception, then comes mocking, and that's exactly what you've been doing.
Calling me deceived isn't going to help your case at all.

The Bible says He supplies our NEEDS...doesn't say anything about getting rich in the way you think. And the PROMISES are for the next life. So if your "wealth" is going to be supplied in Heaven, why do you think you are supposed to hoard it up and take it with you.
Tony you can think anything you want, you can say anything you want...but you have no Biblical basis for your ignorant assumptions about money and its divine calling in your life. I have not always been blessed monetarily and I can tell you from first hand experience...it didn't make me 'happier" or more "fullfilled" when I got it. If anything it proved to me that there had to be something MORE.

No body has mocked the word of God but you with your faith as an investment for wealth seminar.

*Originally posted by Taken
The Bible says He supplies our NEEDS*

Of course, since you're ignoring all of the other verses, that becomes the "Christian as selfish miser" doctrine.

*And the PROMISES are for the next life.*

THIS life.

But he shall receive an hundredfold NOW IN THIS TIME, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
(Mark 10:30, KJV).

*So if your "wealth" is going to be supplied in Heaven, why do you think you are supposed to hoard it up and take it with you.*

Who says it will "be supplied?"
It isn't going to be supplied, you have to take it with you.

Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
(1 Corinthians 3:12-14, KJV).

*Tony you can think anything you want, you can say anything you want...but you have no Biblical basis for your ignorant assumptions about money and its divine calling in your life.*

Have you gone completely insane in the last four hours?
You're mocking God again, since I quoted plenty of scripture for everything I've said.

*I have not always been blessed monetarily and I can tell you from first hand experience...it didn't make me 'happier" or more "fullfilled" when I got it. If anything it proved to me that there had to be something MORE.*

That's because you didn't receive it as a blessing from God.
You received it as something you wanted from the flesh.

*No body has mocked the word of God but you with your faith as an investment for wealth seminar. *

Your posts stand as a testimonial to your mockery.
Besides, you can be broke in heaven, too, if you want.
It really isn't any skin off my nose.

It is very clear that when read in context and it's entirety the verses you use are not speaking of MONEY they are useing Gold and Silver and Treasure as a metaphor for righteousness, faithfullness, and purity of heart. I can't wait to hear you explain how Jesus' parables were not really "parables" cause that is what you would have to do to make your point. Even an unbeliever can read the book and see that they are elluding to something much higher and more prophetic.

*Originally posted by Taken
It is very clear*

That is usually code for having no clue.

*that when read in context and it's entirety the verses you use are not speaking of MONEY they are useing Gold and Silver and Treasure as a metaphor for righteousness, faithfullness, and purity of heart.*

Maybe, but what are "houses" and "lands" metaphors for, then?

But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
(Mark 10:30, KJV).

And how do you know that "salvation" itself isn't a metaphor for getting rich?
After all, if everything that I say is wrong because you say it's a metaphor, who's to say you aren't wrong and salvation itself isn't a metaphor?

*I can't wait to hear you explain how Jesus' parables were not really "parables" cause that is what you would have to do to make your point.*

Really?

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
(Matthew 13:10, KJV).

Jesus only spoke in parables to "them," namely those who were NOT his disciples.
That means that when I read the Bible it isn't in parables, unless it says it is.
It's all parables to you because you aren't one of his disciples, i.e. students.
You're just a hanger-on, with no intention of studying the Bible to find out what it says.

*Even an unbeliever can read the book and see that they are elluding to something much higher and more prophetic. *

No they can't.
If they think they do, they are dreaming, as are you.

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
(Matthew 13:13, KJV).