I am Mr. Average here in the UK: married, 2 kids, average income , average home, average car, do the average amount of holidays, etc etc.

Yet I seem to notice that I am not the only one who is so incensed by all the pc nonsense given to Muslims whose silence in all this terrorism is deafening.

I feel the world is heading for maybe one last all out world war with the west v Islam.

And for me, Mr Average, I feel like I actually want it to happen. I read more and more and see more and more acts of terror happening all around linked by one common word... Muslim!

Muslim "extremists", muslim "rebels", muslim "fanatics", muslim "fundamenalists", and so on. But yet in the same news articles we see the West -- which is so despised by these -- letting in so called asylum seekers/refugees. They come here, take all the benefits like free housing etc and then we pay them to plot from within as so recently seen here in the UK where 2 of the ricin terrorists were claiming asylum. (Let us not forget the "leaders" of "moderate" Muslim groups who spend more time crying "profiling" and "discrimination" than calling out for the militants to leave their midst!)

All the time, these bits of Muslim bad news chip away at me, Mr Average and make me feel so incensed that I fear that hate will build up inside...I feel that it is only a matter of time before we become terrorists against the terrorists...

Then when I stand back and look at what I am thinking in response to these daily events, I am in horror at the violent fantasies.

But if I am having these thoughts, and I am Mr Average, what is every one else feeling...???

Unfortunately, I know what you're feeling - sort of. Other than the fact that I personally don't want an all-out world war, and I think it would be great if we could "all just get along." I guess I'm kind of a naive idealist in that way. But that particular region of the world in which the three Abramic religions originated, no one seems to really want peace - be he Muslim, Christian or Jew. I confess that I simply don't understand this way of life. I've had it explained to me from both the Muslim and Christian perspectives (through no fault of my own, I have no Jewish friends or acquaintances to explain their side of the story) - and I still just don't get it. I guess that my brain was simply not wired for violence or hatred against my fellow creatures, nor was it wired with the drive to infect the rest of the world with whatever memes that it may have been infected with; so, like the Japanese adult whose brain was never wired to distinguish or reproduce the "L" sound from infancy, I simply cannot comprehend it (not the best analogy, perhaps - but it's all I could come up with at the moment).

I guess the short answer would be that I have no answers. :(

Originally posted by Vienna
I am Mr. Average here in the UK: married, 2 kids, average income , average home, average car, do the average amount of holidays, etc etc.
----------
M*W: You sure fooled me. You're a man, but you sound like a frumpy old housewife. You call yourself "Mr. Average." How pitiful! What a boring life you must have. It's obvious, now that you've described yourself, how you must blend right into the wallpaper of your country. You sound as if you are proud to be Mr. Average. That is nothing to be proud of! That's pathetic! You have not only shown your ignorance but you have proven it as well.
----------
Yet I seem to notice that I am not the only one who is so incensed by all the pc nonsense given to Muslims whose silence in all this terrorism is deafening.
----------
M*W: You more than any other member on this forum has an obsessive hatred for Islam. You are ignorant of the religion, but you are quick to speak out against it. Your ignorance is showing.
----------
I feel the world is heading for maybe one last all out world war with the west v Islam. And for me, Mr Average, I feel like I actually want it to happen. I read more and more and see more and more acts of terror happening all around linked by one common word... Muslim!
----------
M*W: Mr. Average, you are paranoid. All you've done is found a scapegoat for your irrational fears. You even want to see an "all out war between the west and Islam!" It's ignorant people like you who start wars. And what would that prove to you? You obviously feel inferior, Mr. Average, to Muslims. I can see that--I believe the whole forum can see that! Your mindset has already been established, and you, yourself, see yourself as "average!" If you were learned, which you're not, you would not have these paranoid fears. There is no hope for you. You're wishy-washy with your own convictions! I bet you've never been able to make a decision in your life! You can't even decide if you're a Christian or an Atheist! No wonder you have fears. Anyone who is so indecisive cannot face reality.
----------
Muslim "extremists", muslim "rebels", muslim "fanatics", muslim "fundamenalists", and so on. But yet in the same news articles we see the West -- which is so despised by these -- letting in so called asylum seekers/refugees. They come here, take all the benefits like free housing etc and then we pay them to plot from within as so recently seen here in the UK where 2 of the ricin terrorists were claiming asylum. (Let us not forget the "leaders" of "moderate" Muslim groups who spend more time crying "profiling" and "discrimination" than calling out for the militants to leave their midst!)
----------
M*W: I'd say you fall under the heading of Christianity. Atheists wouldn't harbor such fears. So what are you afraid of? That the Muslims coming into your country will take away your indecisiveness? They will force you to make a commitment? Or are you afraid of ethnic cleansing? If you didn't see yourself as Mr. Average, you might be able to overcome your fears. I think it's a lost cause with you. No country will be genetically pure anyore. You can run, but you just can't hide.
----------
All the time, these bits of Muslim bad news chip away at me, Mr Average and make me feel so incensed that I fear that hate will build up inside...I feel that it is only a matter of time before we become terrorists against the terrorists...
----------
M*W: All muslims are not terrorists. You fear anything that is not like you! Most of the people of this world are not just "average." It is people like you the world needs to fear--mediocrity! Every Muslim I know is far beyond just "average." They set their goals higher than that, and they have farther to go to get there, especially when they are not in their own Islamic countries. I suspect that it's not only Muslims you fear. You have a problem--a serious problem. You need professional help. You need to be on some strong anti-psychotic medication. Your fears are irrational.
----------
Then when I stand back and look at what I am thinking in response to these daily events, I am in horror at the violent fantasies.
----------
M*W: Those "violent fantasies" are in your head. You may be schizophrenic or have an associative disorder. Get help!
----------
But if I am having these thoughts, and I am Mr Average, what is every one else feeling...???
----------
M*W: The rest of the world doesn't feel or think like you do. You need help! If you don't get help, there's no telling what your mind will do to you. Your thinking is not normal. This rage you have for Muslims will erupt sooner or later. You need to see a psychiatrist as soon as possible. No one has this kind of abnormal hatred unless they are about to crack. You're only hurting yourself and your family. As far as your children, they do not need to be in the hateful environment you are providing for them. Go get help!

Basically M*W when someone states the obvious and you can't understand it, you tell people to get help, hmmm.

Originally posted by Nehushta

I guess the short answer would be that I have no answers. :(
You are not alone - neither has the worlds leaders.

Perhaps the world would be a more peaceful planet without religion?

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
Every Muslim I know is far beyond just "average." They set their goals higher than that, and they have farther to go to get there, especially when they are not in their own Islamic countries.
You make them sound as though they are on a permanent Jihad.

Islam is a militant religion based on death. I can't think of another death based religion since the Thugees save for Islam. Judaism is a life philosophy; since there isn't any real afterlife (only eventual resurrection) it is in a Jew's best interest to have fun while he is alive. In Christianity, although the afterlife has a big part in things, one gets there by living and loving. Only in Islam is the path to Heaven greased with the blood of martyrs and enemies.

Islam teaches that a short life with a violent death is best, and that is deplorable, but understandable when you look at what Islam was formed for. It was formed by a warlord, rejected by the Christians and Jews of his time, who formed what is essentially a taxation and annexation system.

This first half of Islam is jihad. A lot of people tell you that jihad is a spiritual struggle. That is disingenuous at best, and a lie at the heart. This is like saying that a crusade is struggle for a goal. It might be used in that sense, but that isn't what it means: it means holy war. In the same way, jihad means war, real blood and steel and bashed out brains war. When the Koran speaks of jihad, that is what it means. Convert others at the sword.

And that brings us to the second half of Islam. Taxation. When jihad came to town, when the Muslims won, you had three choices. You could convert, and you could pay the Muslim tax; you could submit, and pay the much higher -- and financially suicidal -- infidel tax; or you could die.

This isn't anything unique to Islam; medieval Europe had a similar system (I bet you weren't expecting the Spanish Inquisition), but we grew out of it. If we hadn't, I would hate Christianity the same way. The important distinction is that the Spanish Inquisition was an aberration of Christianity, while Jihad is central to Islam. Islam cannot grow out of Jihad and stay Islam.

The "moderate" Muslims -- the ones he see Jihad as a spiritual struggle -- are the aberration, and I don't believe that they can hold the line. Islam has always been a violent and warlike religion, and I hate Islam.

My guess is its all rooted in the old instincts we all have. Man as an animal dosn't want competition. We see something that could be a danger in the future and we want to charge headlong at it at crush it before it gets a chance. Guilt and compassion for people you don't even know are recent developments in the scheme of things and they have not yet really sunk in.

all religion is based on death and murder christians murdered their savior jews have been slaughtered for simply being Gods chosen people muslims die in these attacks because they believed it was asked by god my opinion thats reason enough not to judge the other all kill or have killed besides why be afraid of what god told you would happen in plain writing you ppl will never open your eyes

Originally posted by Vienna
You make them sound as though they are on a permanent Jihad.

Islam is a militant religion based on death. I can't think of another death based religion since the Thugees save for Islam. Judaism is a life philosophy; since there isn't any real afterlife (only eventual resurrection) it is in a Jew's best interest to have fun while he is alive. In Christianity, although the afterlife has a big part in things, one gets there by living and loving. Only in Islam is the path to Heaven greased with the blood of martyrs and enemies.
.

The "moderate" Muslims -- the ones he see Jihad as a spiritual struggle -- are the aberration, and I don't believe that they can hold the line. Islam has always been a violent and warlike religion, and I hate Islam.


But yet christians have killed more people in the worlds in all the wars and genocides etc then muslims. Why is that?


More genocides and more wars started and fought by christians then muslims. Why is that??

Since you claimed that Christianity is the only peacful religion of the world. *sigh*

Suicide Bombing in the Bible:

Jews and Christians are really clear hypocrites! They condemn the Palestinian Suicide Bomber Martyrs who are defending their lands and trying to drive the Israeli occupation out of their lands with every way they can, while intentionally ignoring the fact that their very own Bible allows suicide bombing.

The story of the Mighty Samson:

"Self sacrifice" and giving your life away intentionally and taking as many enemy lives with you as possible for the sake of GOD Almighty and your people exists in the Bible. Let us look at the story of the Mighty Samson in the Bible:

"Samson said to the servant who held his hand, "Put me where I can feel the pillars that support the temple, so that I may lean against them." Now the temple was crowded with men and women; all the rulers of the Philistines were there, and on the roof were about three thousand men and women watching Samson perform. Then Samson prayed to the LORD, "O Sovereign LORD , remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes." Then Samson reached toward the two central pillars on which the temple stood. Bracing himself against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other, Samson said, "Let me die with the Philistines!" Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived. (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:26-30)"

As we clearly see from the Bible, Samson gave his life for his people by killing as much from the enemy as possible.

Samson prayed to GOD to give him back his power (Samson lost his power after the seven braids of his hair were shaven by Delilah and her people while he was sleeping, Judges 16:1-20), and GOD Almighty granted him that revoked power back. Samson then was able to bring the temple down upon him and his enemies.

Originally posted by Vienna
Basically M*W when someone states the obvious and you can't understand it, you tell people to get help, hmmm.

Sorry but I personally think that Medicine Woman has more than stated the obvious. Paranoia is never a good thing and when it's coupled with hate, well let's just remind ourselves of Hitler.

All the time, these bits of Muslim bad news chip away at me, Mr Average and make me feel so incensed that I fear that hate will build up inside

I think all your hate has already chipped away at the Mr Average that you see yourself as being, and now there is nothing left but unreasonableness and irrational thought.

This isn't anything unique to Islam; medieval Europe had a similar system (I bet you weren't expecting the Spanish Inquisition), but we grew out of it. If we hadn't, I would hate Christianity the same way. The important distinction is that the Spanish Inquisition was an aberration of Christianity, while Jihad is central to Islam.

So you hate the Christian Indonesians who are on rampages murdering all non-christians? And you hate all those gits who go out shooting and murdering doctors who work in abortion clinics because they are not doing what God supposedly said? And you hate it when you see the US and the UK murdering thousands of muslims in Iraq? Your hypocrisy astounds me, although why, I really dont know.

And have we really grown out of it? Sorry but I still have images of Bush, Blair and Co smiling happily as the death and destruction of millions of muslims occur in Iraq. I have seen your previous rants and raves and they have all shown how hateful you really are. Tell me something, you call yourself a Christian yet you hate so much. From what I know of Christianity, one is not meant to hate as you do, but to love thy neighbour. Is this more hypocrisy from you or do you just interpret your bible differently to others? You know? Like other fundamentals interpret their religion differently to the general population? You say you hate Islam and it has been clear that you hate Muslims in the same way and you feel yourself wanting to do violent acts against them. Wouldn't that hate and those violent thoughts make you as bad as the muslim fundamental's you detest so much?

Islam has always been a violent and warlike religion, and I hate Islam.

Am I to guess that you're average mind has forgotten that Christianity has always been seen as a violent and warlike religion in the majority of the parts of the world? In some it still is. And you hate Islam? Gee, now there's a shock to us all. All of your posts have shown in detail how hateful you are of a religion you know nothing about. Again, the name Hitler comes to my mind. Don't ask me why. I guess when I see hateful and paranoid people such as yourself, it automatically makes me think of Hitler. Tell me something Vienna, are you just jealous that you are Mr Average and live in an average house with an average car and with an average family and possibly your muslim neighbour has an above average life? Do you feel as though you are stagnating while your muslim neighbours are leading above average lives? Or could it be just pure and simple paranoia and hate. Either way, I still see you as a short little man with a black moustache leading an average life and as M*W stated, needing lots of help. Although for you sadly, I think help might have been too late in coming.

Originally posted by Skywalker
But yet christians have killed more people in the worlds in all the wars and genocides etc then muslims. Why is that?

Pure and simple paranoia in the minds of the Vienna's of the world. When individuals have the whole "they're out to get me" outlook in life, destruction is bound to follow.



:eek:

Vienna,

Work on your prejudices and you might get reality back. You are living in a filthy self centered prejudice hole created by your own mind. I pity you.

Originally posted by Bells
Sorry but I personally think that Medicine Woman has more than stated the obvious. Paranoia is never a good thing and when it's coupled with hate, well let's just remind ourselves of Hitler.
Go ahead, remind yourself of Hitler. I hate the man and all he stood for.

I think all your hate has already chipped away at the Mr Average that you see yourself as being, and now there is nothing left but unreasonableness and irrational thought.
Thats your opinion.

So you hate the Christian Indonesians who are on rampages murdering all non-christians? And you hate all those gits who go out shooting and murdering doctors who work in abortion clinics because they are not doing what God supposedly said? And you hate it when you see the US and the UK murdering thousands of muslims in Iraq? Your hypocrisy astounds me, although why, I really dont know.
Yes, I hate violence.

And have we really grown out of it? Sorry but I still have images of Bush, Blair and Co smiling happily as the death and destruction of millions of muslims occur in Iraq. I have seen your previous rants and raves and they have all shown how hateful you really are.
I was against the war.

Tell me something, you call yourself a Christian yet you hate so much.
Don't jump to conclusions, I am not a Christian but I do prefer Christianity out of all faiths.

You can despise Christianity for all your worth, it doesn't bother me. I've heard it all.

Y'know Muslims have to criticise other religions too…. blah, blah, blah. Quoting many belligerent verses from the old Testament, they start to demonstrate how bad it (i.e. Christianity and Judaism) was, forgetting the fact that by bringing out those barbaric verses from the old Testament, the Islamists were simply reinforcing and authenticating the ‘appalling elements’ of the Qur’an as well. Why?

Because, the Qur’an confirms the contents of those holy Books (i.e. the Old Testament and the Gospel). Here are a few verses where Allah authenticates the what He had written in those scriptures are also parts of the Qur’an:

The Qur’an confirms the old books; Moses was given the law, Jesus was given the Gospel...3:3

Quran confirms the previous scriptures and supersedes them; if God willed He could have made a single people; believers are to compete in righteousness...5:48

Quran confirms the previous scriptures…6:92

The Quran is from God, it confirms the revelations of the past; Quran is a fuller explanation of God’s book; it contains no doubt...10:37

The Quran confirms in Arabic the book of Moses...46:12

Therefore, shall we not assume that by ‘bashing’ the Bible, you inadvertently bash the Qur’an itself? How funny it can be, come to think of it!

Originally posted by Bells

Sorry but I still have images of Bush, Blair and Co smiling happily as the death and destruction of millions of muslims occur in Iraq.


What you fail to acknowledge is the thousands of muslims that lay dead in mass graves killed by there then leader saddam.

It did take christian based political leaders to clear this horrific act against humanity up, but I don't think religion has anything to do with it, it is humanity.

Dave

Originally posted by davewhite04
What you fail to acknowledge is the thousands of muslims that lay dead in mass graves killed by there then leader saddam.

It did take christian based political leaders to clear this horrific act against humanity up, but I don't think religion has anything to do with it, it is humanity.

Dave

When the horrors that Saddam committed against his own people occured, why didn't the West step in then? Human rights organisations begged for something to be done to stop the slaughter, the people being slaughtered begged for help, yet help did not come. But at that time, Saddam was still the enemy of Iran. Help only came under the guise of the so called stopping weapons of mass destruction of which none were found. It was only after these wmd's weren't found did Bush, Blair and Co then bring forward the notion of liberating Iraq from a despotic leader. And wasn't it the so called christian based political leaders themselves who helped arm Saddam in the first place? Doesn't the US and friends have the motto of arm the enemy of your enemy? Well didn't this come round and bite the West on its butt this time.

Christian based political leaders aren't interested in humanity, they, like all leaders, are only interested in wealth. In the case of Iraq the wealth is oil, under the disguise of the search for WMD's. If christian based political leaders cared about humanity they would have stepped in and stopped the genocide in Rwanda in 1994 when more than 800,000 Tutsi were slaughtered. They would not have imposed the sanctions against Iraq which only punished the Iraqi people. States such as the United States and Australia would not have helped train the Indonesian soldiers, some of whom were involved in human rights abuses in East Timor until 1998. The list goes on and on. Notions of humanity don't come into it.



:eek:

I'm really liking that Bells personality.;)

Originally posted by Bells
When the horrors that Saddam committed against his own people occured, why didn't the West step in then?
Because the West would have been persecuted for sticking their noses in where it is not wanted. And "lo and behold" look what happens when the West does do something. The middle east complain of oppression and retaliate with terrorism.

The troops are not welcome in Iraq, more of them are being killed now than during the early days of the war. I say pull the troops out now, because if the troops stay much longer it will turn into a middle eastern version of Vietnam.

So where is this discussion going? You talk about Bush and Blair laughing while muslims die, then I rebuke by saying that these very leaders prevented more muslims being needlessly murdered then you go on about why didn't they do this that then and when etc.

The truth is I don't know.

As for the arms sold to Iraq, well that was a different president and prime minister.

At the end of the day eliminating hussain was a big victory for humanity, yes it should have happened sooner but at least it happened at all.

Dave

Originally posted by Vienna
Because the West would have been persecuted for sticking their noses in where it is not wanted. And "lo and behold" look what happens when the West does do something. The middle east complain of oppression and retaliate with terrorism.

The troops are not welcome in Iraq, more of them are being killed now than during the early days of the war. I say pull the troops out now, because if the troops stay much longer it will turn into a middle eastern version of Vietnam.

I agree with your first paragraph, but I feel that we have come this far we should at least try to stabilise Iraq then give it back to the people.

Dave

You call invading another country to search for so called WMD's the West doing something? What the West has done Vienna in attacking Iraq is breach international law. Even the UN wouldn't support the US, UK and Co when they pushed for war against Iraq. Why? Because they didn't believe that WMD's existed and the reason for the invasion in Iraq was not for humanitarian reasons. And guess what? The Allied forces still haven't found the WMD's. Sure all can rejoice that a twit like Saddam is no longer in power, but who's in power now? By the US and co doing what it has done, it has only resulted in further bloodshed. The US had ummed and ahhed for the past 10 years about getting rid of Saddam, and why? Because they were unsure as to who would replace him and it's better to have an enemy you know then one you don't know.

The hypocrisy of it all is laughable. Only it's not funny because innocent people are losing their lives fighting a battle for money and oil. Yeah, the reasons for going to war and getting rid of Saddam were great. It's all been a slap in the face for the people of Iraq who suffered decades under his regime, can you blame them now for fighting against further oppression placed upon them by the Allied forces? Saddam was not deposed as leader to save the people of Iraq, he was deposed to save their oil.

I say pull the troops out now, because if the troops stay much longer it will turn into a middle eastern version of Vietnam.

For once I will agree with you Vienna (does it scare you as much as it does me?). The US invading Iraq will only end up in the same way as the war in Vietnam. The notions of the west and intervention for humanitarian reasons is a fallacy. Our past proves that and lets hope our future changes that.

It is when we have despots such as Bush, Blaire and Howard in power who are pushing fear and hate onto their populations that the hate and violence will continue. Islam is not to blame for terrorism. Humanity is to blame, because to hate is to feed people who perpetrate acts of terror.

Originally posted by davewhite04
I agree with your first paragraph, but I feel that we have come this far we should at least try to stabilise Iraq then give it back to the people.

Dave
I respect your opinion Dave but this is a no win war and the opportunity of giving Iraq back (as we would like it) to the people is out of reach.

How many more troops must die before the UK and American Governments realise this

A new word for our times, with a different meaning for every individual.

To me, geopoliticalreligiouscrap means the use of political powers, with the fundamental religious views. The west mainly Christian base attacking and making seem like an enemy the Muslim world for the gain of valuable resourses.

No WMD were found in Irag, its been 7-1/2 months and even bush's team were unable to find one iota of trace to wmd.

What is really scarry is this:
The similiriarity of say Hitler & Bush!;

http://falloutshelternews.com/BushHitlerLinks.html

No-I dont take the above too serious, but it is weird, and freaky.

What if?.

Originally posted by davewhite04
What you fail to acknowledge is the thousands of muslims that lay dead in mass graves killed by there then leader saddam.

It did take christian based political leaders to clear this horrific act against humanity up, but I don't think religion has anything to do with it, it is humanity.

Dave

what you fail to realize is that when the saddam was killing his people, he was your FRIEND and ALLY:

CHECK THIS 2 MIN VIDEO AND TELL ME WHO IS SHAKING HANDS WITH THE 'ENEMY' ?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2038.htm

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
what you fail to realize is that when the saddam was killing his people, he was your FRIEND and ALLY:

CHECK THIS 2 MIN VIDEO AND TELL ME WHO IS SHAKING HANDS WITH THE 'ENEMY' ?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2038.htm
LOL!!!!! :D

Got anything more up to date, that was TWENTY years ago, goon.

And..... if you haven't noticed, this is the Religion part of this forum. Funny how Islam turns political every time..

Take it to the political forum area.

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian

CHECK THIS 2 MIN VIDEO AND TELL ME WHO IS SHAKING HANDS WITH THE 'ENEMY' ?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2038.htm

It's the ex-Cowboy actor Ronald Reagon. Did you see the video clip of the English lad who wouldn't go near Saddam for a publicity stunt even though he was a prisoner?

Maybe not, as it wasn't 20years ago.


Vienna: You are quite correct with what you said above, I will not discuss in this pointless discussion anymore.

Dave

Originally posted by davewhite04
...

Me neither Dave.

But if I am having these thoughts, and I am Mr Average, what is every one else feeling. What's the Billboard top ten look like? That question actually just represents a simple idea: "Average ain't impressive."

That's not really meant to slam you, Vienna, but I'm curious if you really do wish to cast yourself as "Mr. Average."

But look at how badly Bush and Blair conned Mr. and Mrs. Average.

I put before you Clive Barker's literary assertion that "Nothing ever begins."

Where does the story that leads us to the current situation begin?

The troubles of the Middle East predate Islam. People with a better than average sense of history generally recognize this. And those folks with a better than average sense of history generally look at the problems and not the identity politics. "P.C.," no matter how distasteful the average might find it on this or any occasion, is actually an accommodation of the average and below-average.

Don't let the press con you, Vienna. In a "Jar of Tang" depiction, some Muslims are only as Muslim as you are Christian. It's a foreign culture; explaining the subtleties to average folks is a detailed and frustrating experience for the average.

If the press treated "Christianity" the same as they treat "Islam," you'd be frightened to walk down the streets in this country.

Originally posted by Vienna
Perhaps the world would be a more peaceful planet without religion?

I don't know about that, but I do strongly feel that no government should establish a state religion or make any laws that favor one religion over another, or imply advocacy for any particular religion by permitting the display of that religion's symbols or rituals on government property.

One's religious choice should be kept personal, and not foisted on the rest of the world at every opportunity. Then I think we would be much closer to that ideal of "peace on earth and good will toward men."

New Labour has been GAGGING Landlords & Housing Associations etc with the Official Secrets Act

New Labour is using the Asylum Fiasco to IMPORT it's FUTURE voters !

Asylum Seekers ?

It's A New Labour Trojan Horse !

To ensure that this does not happen, and that the British people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question. (bnp (http://www.bnp.org.uk/policies.html))

vienna bullshits. aint about religion but arabs invading his country.
heil!

New Labour has been GAGGING Landlords & Housing Associations etc with the Official Secrets Act

This is news to me.

No honestly spookz, I'm serious.

I will be writing back to you on this.

Originally posted by tiassa
What's the Billboard top ten look like? That question actually just represents a simple idea: "Average ain't impressive."

That's not really meant to slam you, Vienna, but I'm curious if you really do wish to cast yourself as "Mr. Average."

But look at how badly Bush and Blair conned Mr. and Mrs. Average.

I put before you Clive Barker's literary assertion that "Nothing ever begins."

Where does the story that leads us to the current situation begin?

The troubles of the Middle East predate Islam. People with a better than average sense of history generally recognize this. And those folks with a better than average sense of history generally look at the problems and not the identity politics. "P.C.," no matter how distasteful the average might find it on this or any occasion, is actually an accommodation of the average and below-average.

Don't let the press con you, Vienna. In a "Jar of Tang" depiction, some Muslims are only as Muslim as you are Christian. It's a foreign culture; explaining the subtleties to average folks is a detailed and frustrating experience for the average.

If the press treated "Christianity" the same as they treat "Islam," you'd be frightened to walk down the streets in this country.
Tiassa that is an excellent post, and, yes I do see your point.

Thanks :)

i rock
dont i have vienna's number? well dont i, kids?

but yet..
tiassa's approach rocks even more. i mean, perhaps vienna is a nice guy after all..."and, yes I do see your point" (vienna)

Originally posted by spookz
i rock
dont i have vienna's number? well dont i, kids?
Hi Spookz,

Thanks for your post, it knocked me for a six and reminded me about the problems in the country I live.

Yep, that site kind of rocked me too.


The BNP (British Nationalist Party) has some unusual ideas about governing this country. But they are nothing to do with New Labour.
The leader of the British Nationalist Party is Nick Griffin
http://www.bnp.org.uk/

The leader of New Labour just happens to be the Prime Minister Tony Blair
http://www.labour.org.uk/

The site http://www.seanbryson.com hasn't really told me anything that I didn't know already. It is amateurish looking site and it's contents are nothing new. But I will admit, all the stuff is true.

I suppose spookz you were refering to this page when you connected this site with me. I haven't mentioned this stuff in my arguments, my arguments were about muslim terrorism, not a Black Britain.

http://www.seanbryson.com/articles/white_britain.html

Britain is finished as a white country, and it is finished as a Christian country. Things appear differently on the main and world media news, and unless you live here, you would never know things have changed so quickly.

I don't blame the immigrants and the asylum seekers for coming here, if I were in their shoes I would probably do the same. I blame the government, it has sold it's citizens short, especially the English.

Did you know that although I was born in England I cannot legally claim to be English, no English person can. As far as the government is concerned the nationality doesn't exist, and they are correct. It has been that way for the last three hundred years.
I am not allowed to put England as my country of birth on my passport, because English is not a valid nationality

Also, England is not a political country, it exists geographicaly but thats all.

Am I proud to be English, Not really, Why should I be?

England is a nonentity.

:(

Originally posted by Vienna
Tiassa that is an excellent post, and, yes I do see your point.

Thanks :)


I see your point too vienna. :D

I haven't mentioned this stuff in my arguments,

ja. i just anticipated a probable conclusion:D

Vienna
Islam is a militant religion based on death. I can't think of another death based religion since the Thugees save for Islam. Judaism is a life philosophy; since there isn't any real afterlife (only eventual resurrection) it is in a Jew's best interest to have fun while he is alive. In Christianity, although the afterlife has a big part in things, one gets there by living and loving. Only in Islam is the path to Heaven greased with the blood of martyrs and enemies.......
Just curious. I cut and pasted the first line of this paragraph of yours into the Google search box and it came up with a site that contains this:
Islam is a militant religion based on death. I can't think of another death based religion since the Thugees save for Islam. Judaism is a life philosophy; since there isn't any real afterlife (only eventual resurrection) it is in a Jew's best interest to have fun while he is alive. In Christianity, although the afterlife has a big part in things, one gets there by living and loving. Only in Islam is the path to Heaven greased with the blood of martyrs and enemies.......
plus the rest of that particular post of yours. So when you say,
But if I am having these thoughts...
are you?

Originally posted by MacZ
Vienna
are you?
Muslims have painted the picture this way, I merely describe it how it looks to me.

Anyone know the answer to this:

If a believer of Christ is called a Christian, why isn't a believer of Mohammed called a Mohammedian???
Or an Allahian?
Or even an Islamian?
Why Muslim??

thats simple.
it has to do with the confabulatory aspects of paradigms that invests arabic nomenclatures with a grammatical structure that minimizes the inherant mastubatory tendencies of the "ian" clause. while this can be extrapolated to the umpteenth degree, i would rather err on the side of caution. after all we have to think about the kids and their future potential

dont we?

i have been a long time reader on this forum,and find it very interesting and depressing at the same time.i have to agree with Vienna,the average joe in the street is sick of whinging PC groups force feeding us crap about our multi-cultural society,look at the type of people we have too put up with ,proud muslim for example! on his own he has convinced me that Islam is a religion of hate.religion?its all crap,muslims and christians arguing over who invented god.twats

Vienna

"Why Muslim"?

Frankly, if you can't use Google and your brain to figure it out for yourself ...?

The short answer is that the word Muslim means approximately one who submits.

In the meantime: I read more and more and see more and more acts of terror happening all around linked by one common word... Muslim!I'm going to pick on the Irish for a moment; after all, as Boris Saavedra notes in the Fall, 2003 issue of the National Defense University (http://www3.ndu.edu)'s Security and Defense Studies Review (http://www3.ndu.edu/chds/Journal/), Terrorism as we know it grew out of secret societies of Italian and Irish patriots, but it also manifested itself in most Balkan countries, in Turkey and Egypt, and of course among the extreme anarchists, who believed in the strategy of propaganda by deed. Last but not least were the Russian terrorists, who prior to the First World War were by far the most active and successful. Terrorism was widely discussed among the European far left, not because the use of violence as a political statement was a monopoly of the left but because the right was the political establishment, and prior to World War I the left was seen as the agent of change, trying to overthrow those in power. However, most leader(s) of the left rejected terrorism for both philosophical and practical reasons. (Saavedra)And the Irish "terrorists" continue to draw bad press, even in the age of anti-Islamic paranoia, as Rachel Ehrenfeld reported in August, 2002:Paul Collinson, a British explosives expert working with the Red Cross, identified hundreds of explosive devices found there and noted that "the pipe bombs I found in Jenin are exact replicas of ones I found in Northern Ireland." The Daily Telegraph quoted a U.S. government official as saying in response: "If there was clear and convincing evidence that the IRA has been training Palestinians in bomb-making techniques, then we are facing a grave and grievous situation for the IRA — it would surely lead to a reassessment of whether the IRA should be put on the designated list of terrorist organizations with a global reach."

The incident came on the heels of a shooting spree of ten Israelis with a bolt-action rifle, perpetrated by a single sniper who left his rifle behind. This technique was also identified as a Irish Republican Army (IRA) trademark.

But the IRA's connections are not limited to the Middle East or the Palestinians. On April 24, 2001, the House of Representatives Committee on International Relations published the findings of its investigation into IRA activities in Colombia. Their report clearly demonstrated a longstanding connection with the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), mentioned at least 15 more IRA terrorists who have been traveling in and out of Colombia since 1998, and estimated that the IRA had received at least $2 million in drug proceeds for training members of FARC. (National Review (http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-ehrenfeld082102.asp))I'll skip the tacky 2001 map by the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1490663.stm) showing IRA interests in a whole five places outside Ireland, but the accompanying article offers a shallow overview of the IRA's dealings in light of the arrests (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1490244.stm) that year of Irish Republican "experts" in Colombia brought brief scrutiny to a cause that had been enjoying several years of positive attention from the world community. The Provisional IRA received assistance from Libya, is often linked to the ETA, and the IRA's cellular structure (http://www.terrorismanswers.com/groups/ira2.html) is popular with other terrorist organizations, including Al Qaeda.

Now here's the thing: I like the Irish. When I run into them in Seattle, they're beyond simply nice. They're great. Their bars are the best in the area. I intend to spend some time in Ireland at some point in my life just because. But none of that changes the fact that we cannot discuss "Muslim" terrorism, cannot discuss the American Drug War, cannot discuss the Palestinian issue ... without running into the Irish. They trade, they train, they lend and borrow, and they bestow unto terrorism a structural contribution that is, decades later, still effective in the hands of others.

So I'm curious what you propose, Vienna, to do about that nasty Irish problem in Europe? And remember this: the English never figured out the answer to that question.

Oh, yeah, and when you figure the amount of American money that has gone to the IRA and its various splinters ... what do you propose Europe do about its nasty American problem?

Reference & Citation

• Saavedra, Boris. "Confronting Terrorism in Latin America: Latin America and United States Policy Implications." Center for Hemispheric Defense Studies - National Defense University: Security and Defense Studies Review, Fall, 2003. See http://www3.ndu.edu/chds/Journal/PDF/2003-0403/Saavedra-article.pdf (Note: PDF download - see link below for SDSR.)
• Ehrenfeld, Rachel. "IRA + PLO = Terror." National Review Online, August 21, 2002. See http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-ehrenfeld082102.asp
• Jackson, Patrick. "The IRA's foreign connections." BBC News Online, August 14, 2001. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1490663.stm
• BBC. "Colombia questions IRA suspects." August 15, 2001. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1490244.stm
• Council on Foreign Relations. "Irish Republican Army." Terrorism: Questions & Answers, 2004. See http://www.terrorismanswers.com/groups/ira2.html

See Also

• National Defense University: http://www3.ndu.edu/
• Security and Defense Studies Review: http://www3.ndu.edu/chds/Journal/
• Council on Foreign Relations/Markle Foundation - Terrorism: Questions & Answers: http://www.terrorismanswers.com/home/
• Wikipedia - "Muslim": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim
• Google: http://www.google.com/

The folly with the muslims in general is that they want us to tollerate them without showing any tollerance in return. And no matter how hard you wanna disagree with this statement it is true. They want respect based on their religious outlooks instead of their deeds or mutual adherance.

I am replying to the starter of the thread and his first post all of the other posts with iraq and saddam and bush are clouding the issue here. They are irrelevant.

This isn't about politics its about peoples views on Islam as a whole and why they come off that way and why they trend that way.

The big problem is none of the muslims protest any attacks against westerners and feel that its ok no skin off my back they are non-believers after all. And when we feel that this condones the actions of the radicals which it does they cry out for tolerance... They could take a stand against their own radical elements and show solidarity and cohesion against radical and inhuman behavior but the first thing they do is cry out "You should be tolerant", "Islam is a religon of tolerance and peace" and so on and so forth. But words mean nothing, nothing at all people see but then they see all the action or non-action in rebuttal of those words and they are held as worthless.

The growing trend for muslims is fairly grim in Russia at least. Russia will probably have severel islamic minorities less in the coming decade its not a good thing but was unavoidable. If someone stings you enough , you eventually have to stomp em and thats exactly whats happening. Russia is in the same state as Israel is. Terrorist acts every week or so and unlike western democracies in Russia tolerance isn't the answer but action is. Eventually this "action" will spread along with radical muslims to other parts of the world. How gradual or rapid it transcends to other parts of the world depends on muslims themselves.

Russia has this little culture thing which is fairly simple: you hit me I hit you. Its fairly easy to grasp if you notice its politics and actions. Also notice that it enacted quotas and immigration barriers just like the west.

The whole problem with Islam is that killing of the non-believers is condoned and even encouraged. And it does say that in the Q'aran no matter how much they want us to see it as the book of peace and tolerance.

You call invading another country to search for so called WMD's the West doing something? What the West has done Vienna in attacking Iraq is breach international law.
and what OBL did, what was that called? what is plowing planes full of people into buildings full of people called? would that qualify as a "breach of international law"?


It is when we have despots such as Bush, Blaire and Howard in power who are pushing fear and hate onto their populations that the hate and violence will continue.
though I don't support Baby Bush, if he & Blair qualify as despots, what would OLB, S. Huissein, M. Qaddafi & the Iranian mullahs be callled?


Islam is not to blame for terrorism. Humanity is to blame, because to hate is to feed people who perpetrate acts of terror.
is what you're saying, that muslims are too human? or that because muslims are hated, they must kill, because its an uncontrollable urge?

and what OBL did, what was that called? what is plowing planes full of people into buildings full of people called? would that qualify as a "breach of international law"?


[/COLOR]

was OBL muslim? is he? who is he anyway? why he is so important to you? so you consider him authroity on islam? just like you consider iran as a authority on islam. Frankly you are fucking stupid if you think obl acted as a muslim or iran has any authority over islam, only a ignorant like your self would be dumb enough to believe that or a southern baptist terrorist like your self.
;)

I will put it this way to all those BIGOTS ISLAMOPHOBES:

As long as muslims are killed, you will be killed....very simple.

''Why should fear, killing, destruction, displacement, orphaning and widowing continue to be our lot, while security, stability and happiness be your lot?''

Osama Bin Laden

And guess what, ALL 2 BILLION MUSLIMS AROUND THE WORLD AGREE WITH BIN LADEN REGARDING HIS ABOVE STATEMENT, BUT DISAGREE ABOUT THE MEANS TO IMPLEMENT IT.

I will put it this way to all those BIGOTS ISLAMOPHOBES:

As long as muslims are killed, you will be killed....very simple.

''Why should fear, killing, destruction, displacement, orphaning and widowing continue to be our lot, while security, stability and happiness be your lot?''

Osama Bin Laden

And guess what, ALL 2 BILLION MUSLIMS AROUND THE WORLD AGREE WITH BIN LADEN REGARDING HIS ABOVE STATEMENT, BUT DISAGREE ABOUT THE MEANS TO IMPLEMENT IT.
Errrm PM, that was a contradiction if there ever was one. You state that as long as Muslims are killed, that we will be killed then you go on to state that you disagree with how OBL implements it. Huh?

The advocation of killing any innocent individual is wrong, be they Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Hindu, etc. Your statement of "As long as muslims are killed, you will be killed... very simple" is vile and beyond the run of the mill fanaticalism. So I'm going to ask you a question PM, how would YOU implement it? If you agree with OBL's statement, how would YOU implement it differently? I'm not talking about the stopping the occupation of Muslim countries either. Just imagine all continues as it is now, how would you implement OBL's statement differently?

Errrm PM, that was a contradiction if there ever was one. You state that as long as Muslims are killed, that we will be killed then you go on to state that you disagree with how OBL implements it. Huh?

You misunderstood bells, I am explaining why such act of terror is committed by some so called Islamic terrorists !!

You misunderstood bells, I am explaining why such act of terror is committed by some so called Islamic terrorists !!
Quick interpretation:

Proud Muslim is saying " Hells Bells - you caught me out" :D

You misunderstood bells, I am explaining why such act of terror is committed by some so called Islamic terrorists !!
Hmmm interesting. Actually, I don't really think I misunderstood you PM. Would you like to know why? Because of this statement:

I will put it this way to all those BIGOTS ISLAMOPHOBES:

As long as muslims are killed, you will be killed....very simple.

You made that statement PM, no one else here did. The 'I will put it this way to all those BIGOT ISLAMOPHOBES' speaks volumes as it gives the impression that it was a statement in fact. The OBL quote and your little statement afterwards could be construed as an explanation, but not the above. So please answer my question PM, what would be your alternative? How would YOU implement it differently?

Alternate way :

With the help of key board, mouse, cut&paste and links to his favourite sites. That he calls e-jihad. He wants to do the same as what OBL wants to do but does not want to risk losing his comforts.

Modus Operandi

To save Islam (because he is the shield of Islam, remember), he first attracts attack on Islam by provoking the 'infidels' and when the criticism forthcoming he refuses to engage in logical discussions and call them as 'islamophobes','hypocrites' etc. This way he gets the satisfaction of saving islam from the infidels of sciforums.

Hypocrisy at worst

He would list out all the islamic virtues but has none of them.

.. to be contd.

Hmmm interesting. Actually, I don't really think I misunderstood you PM. Would you like to know why? Because of this statement:
You made that statement PM, no one else here did. The 'I will put it this way to all those BIGOT ISLAMOPHOBES' speaks volumes as it gives the impression that it was a statement in fact. The OBL quote and your little statement afterwards could be construed as an explanation, but not the above. So please answer my question PM, what would be your alternative? How would YOU implement it differently?

True, I made the above statement in response to the claim of why some muslims committ an act of terror.

And Again, I repeat the same statement and I stand by it:

AS LONG AS MUSLIMS ARE KILLED, WESTERNERS WILL BE KILLED....very simple.

PM, look at is this way -
The West at one point happened to be powerful enough to conquer all the Muslim countries. They then eventually left or were forced out, leaving a patchwork of states whose boundries don't take the populations' different compositions into account, meaning civil wars and dictatorships. They really screwed up. But it was the Cold War, so the US and Russia tried to gain allegience from whoever they could, and helped prop up nasty regimes as long as they did as they were told and gave them oil. OBL and al-Zawahiri think they have to get rid of the US presence in Arabia to overthrow the nasty Western-backed dictatorships (and establish not a democracy, but a pan-Arabic Talibanesque hell on earth). So they start bombing and killing, meaning that the dictatorships get even further entrenched and have even more excuses to treat their peoples badly, and Westerners for the first time start being really afraid of Islam. Eventually it gets so bad that the West feels the need to start removing regimes that they feel threaten them and their supply of oil.

OBL and friends didn't realise that with the end of the Cold War, the pressure on dictatorships to respect their citizens' rights would be ever stronger. The West usually tries harder to ensure stability than democracy and human rights, but we're improving, and its only a matter of time. Or else they did realise this and feared that Muslims were becoming too enlightened to modern values and wanted Muslims to start hating the West so they can realise their dream of enslaving all of the Muslim world under Islam. Either way, they're idiots.

And don't make it sound like the West just 'kills Muslims' for the hell of it - the US attacked after 9/11. The West may have helped oppress Muslims in their own countries, but they didn't kill them. I mean, if some religious freak gained a stranglehold on power in Denmark, I would love the US to come and rescue us, no matter how many bombs miss their target.

And Again, I repeat the same statement and I stand by it:

AS LONG AS MUSLIMS ARE KILLED, WESTERNERS WILL BE KILLED....very simple.

That is your stand and everyone knows about it.

And guess what, ALL 2 BILLION MUSLIMS AROUND THE WORLD AGREE WITH BIN LADEN REGARDING HIS ABOVE STATEMENT, BUT DISAGREE ABOUT THE MEANS TO IMPLEMENT IT.
The simple question is what is your (i mean your, not the 2 billion muslims around the world you pretend to represent) means to implement it, different from OBL's.? encouraging the westerners to commit suicide.?

True, I made the above statement in response to the claim of why some muslims committ an act of terror.

And Again, I repeat the same statement and I stand by it:

AS LONG AS MUSLIMS ARE KILLED, WESTERNERS WILL BE KILLED....very simple.
I am still waiting for you to answer my question PM. If it is too difficult for you to answer, just say so. In case you try to feign ignorance, here they are again:

So I'm going to ask you a question PM, how would YOU implement it? If you agree with OBL's statement, how would YOU implement it differently? I'm not talking about the stopping the occupation of Muslim countries either. Just imagine all continues as it is now, how would you implement OBL's statement differently?

So please answer my question PM, what would be your alternative? How would YOU implement it differently?

Thank you

I am still waiting for you to answer my question PM. If it is too difficult for you to answer, just say so. In case you try to feign ignorance, here they are again:
Thank you

I dont know how this will be implemented, we shall wait and see...

AS LONG AS MUSLIMS ARE KILLED, WESTERNERS WILL BE KILLED....very simple.

It's dogmas and idiocities like these that dilutes and distracts us from the REAL problems. You with your stupid statements have just made the valid very real Palestine problem lost noise in the air.

Let me point directly to your lacking....First, you said MUSLIMS. Many arabs are not even muslims, so you have effectively used religion to divide existing nations and you have placed all muslims on a stationary target for all to spit on at their leisure. Second, you said, westerners, again effectively alienating people that don't remotely have anything to do with you and your non existing problem. You created your own victims and your own perpetrators, and it's all in your head non existant crap. If every single muslim wake up one morning and simply looked more carefully at their lives, we would be marching forward.

I think the son of a bitch "Gamal Abd ElNaser" started out this trend of emotional haphazard unintelligent style. First, you all insist on talking in a pluralistic sense, and thus immediately undermining any sense of democracy and killing any sense of individualism amongst your own. Second, you TALK TOO MUCH, thus alienating the world and diluting your own problems. Third, you spread all your dirty laundry out in the open infront of everyone. Fourth, you think out loud, making every it impossible to implement any thought.

Can't you reflect for a second and observe that a little candle can't blow in the wind....What does the arabs do to protect the potential within them....? Nothing...On the contrary, they purposely drain every potential toward their non existant so called common cause. They leave their little candles out in the wind to burn in vein...Bravo.

PM, the cause that you're living for doesn't exist, this same cause that you swear that you live and die by wouldn't do the same for you. You're wasting away in vein and carrying slogans for a non breathing non living who cares less cause. I would like to tell you the same thing that I would love to tell Bush. The people don't exist for the economy, the economy exist to serve the people. Same to you, People shouldn't die for peace, peace should exist to protect the lives of people.

If the arabs don't learn how to speak and act intelligently, they'll continue to be mocked and made irrelevant in every situation....and you'll continue to be a raging emotional disaster who threatens to blow himself as the answer to every problem. Good luck.

I will put it this way to all those BIGOTS ISLAMOPHOBES:

As long as muslims are killed, you will be killed....very simple.

''Why should fear, killing, destruction, displacement, orphaning and widowing continue to be our lot, while security, stability and happiness be your lot?''

Osama Bin Laden

And guess what, ALL 2 BILLION MUSLIMS AROUND THE WORLD AGREE WITH BIN LADEN REGARDING HIS ABOVE STATEMENT, BUT DISAGREE ABOUT THE MEANS TO IMPLEMENT IT.
what do you think islam did at the start in 632? , you have been killing since your religion left Arabia, your co-religious haven't stopped yet, first Syria. Egypt, Byzantium, Spain, etc... What did Byzantium do to incur muslim wrath? Ah, just minding its business duking it out with the Persian Empire, & for good measure Arabs conquered the Persian Empire too. Thanks P_M, your people make your point explicedly. Have muslims ever believed in unconquered, live & let live peace? Check out any timelines, conquest, war, piracy, plunder, all start as soon as Mohammad conquers Mecca

But yet christians have killed more people in the worlds in all the wars and genocides etc then muslims. Why is that?


More genocides and more wars started and fought by christians then muslims. Why is that??

Since you claimed that Christianity is the only peacful religion of the world. *sigh*

in world war 2 alone 56.4 million people died - all the countries (except a few like Japan) where Christian majorities.

Hmmm interesting. Actually, I don't really think I misunderstood you PM. Would you like to know why? Because of this statement:

You made that statement PM, no one else here did. The 'I will put it this way to all those BIGOT ISLAMOPHOBES' speaks volumes as it gives the impression that it was a statement in fact. The OBL quote and your little statement afterwards could be construed as an explanation, but not the above. So please answer my question PM, what would be your alternative? How would YOU implement it differently?

''Why should fear, killing, destruction, displacement, orphaning and widowing continue to be our lot, while security, stability and happiness be your lot?''

where in this statement does it say we should kill etc. it is saying why you should you have security etc. while we have destruction etc.

Russia is in the same state as Israel is. Terrorist acts every week or so and unlike western democracies in Russia tolerance isn't the answer but action is.

dont say the Muslims in Palestine are Terrorist. remember why are they doing these suicide bombings? because they CAN't fight with armies and weapons becasue they dont have any and israel do.

and why are they fighting - BECASUE What Israel is doing by occuping Palestine is ILLEGAL EVEN BY THEIR LAW, US LAW, INTERNATIONAL LAW and HUMAN RIGHTS becasue:

The wall dividing Palestine and Israel anchors Israeli military occupation and colonies in the Palestinian territories, in a blatant violation of international law and resolutions, which do not permit annexation of land by force.
Israel (by means of the wall) drives towards the practice of ethnic cleansing and is subjecting an entire population to aggressive collective punishment, to the strangest and harshest laws such as separating the farmers, students, workers and the sick from their lands, water source, schools, doctors and hospitals and their workplace. Moreover, the wall it divides each city and village into enclaves, splitting and dispersing members of the same family. These practices contradict basic human rights, the 4th Geneva Convention and the related international covenants.
The wall restores the ghetto culture and instills an apartheid regime encouraging discrimination in the era of human globalization and openness.
The wall destroys hopes for peace and all of the political initiatives, fostering an atmosphere of hatred, animosity and war between states and countries of the region as well as jeopardizing security and stability in the Middle East.
The wall is causing environment catastrophes, with the uprooting of a hundred thousand trees in the first phase alone and the destroying and/or annexing Palestinian water resources. Furthermore, the wall has destroyed and targeted archeological and historical sites in this ancient land.
In order to solve the harms caused by this wall, which are listed above, a unified and strong campaign, should condemn and combat these actions to stop and reverse the construction of this wall, for no change in route could dissolve these violations.

ok, i dont expect you to understand. but just tell me this...

if people who so blatantly defying rules and oppressing you. illegally capturing you land and limiting you water supply and stopping aid to come to your country. perhaps your family was killed by an Israeli or American weapon.

and you wanted to protect yourself and your future gernation and you hd no weapons or armies, the only thing you could do was to do a suicide bombing mission

THEN WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

sit back, do nothing and let the same happen to your future generation
or fight, whatever way you could against their Tanks, planes, helicopter, armies, missiles, macine guns, nukes etc.

There's another way to fight. That is to speak out loudly against the wrongs being done. Other people will hear you and condemn the evil acts and the doers of them. In non-violent ways, you and they can exert pressure to achieve a fair outcome.

Suicide bombings by Palestinians only make people sympathetic to the Israelis, and give them an excuse to retaliate with military force.

The only solution to the ongoing violence is for one side to stop it.

The only solution to the ongoing violence is for one side to stop it.

Which side James?? The strong hypocritical one in control or the irrelevant weak one.

Just one side stopping doesn't guarantee that the other side would not transgress further. The field must be leveled first before the teams can really play. To level the field is to serve justice and equality, and that will never be accomplished while the native palestenian live in tents pushed away from the society while the Israelis enjoy the nightclubs and the new settlements. The Israelis can't complain about Suicide bombers hitting their nightclubs, pizza joints, and new settlements....something need to level the field, and currently the field is to uneven to warrant peace.

There's another way to fight. That is to speak out loudly against the wrongs being done. Other people will hear you and condemn the evil acts and the doers of them. In non-violent ways, you and they can exert pressure to achieve a fair outcome.

Suicide bombings by Palestinians only make people sympathetic to the Israelis, and give them an excuse to retaliate with military force.

The only solution to the ongoing violence is for one side to stop it.

BREATH TAKING !!! Blaming the victims and praising the occupiers and the thieves !!

Did you see these pictures before James ? they are the ISRAELI equal to the palestinean suicide bombings:

http://unix.za.net/~jedeye/pack/rape4.gif

Israeli Jewish terrorists pose for photo over dead Palestinian civilan !! those Israelis are worse than animals.

MORE ABOUT THE BARBARIC ISRAELI JEWISH ATROCITIES AGAINST THE PALESTINEANS:

http://www.koshertaxscam.com/atroc

http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/palestine/jenin.htm

AS LONG AS MUSLIMS ARE KILLED, WESTERNERS WILL BE KILLED....very simple.

This statement points out a cultural difference between middle eastern culture and the west that I don't think has been discussed. This is the culture of REVENGE. It does not even seem to matter how or under what circumstances muslims die, it is necessary for them to get revenge. Even if the actions of those muslims was wrong, you must get revenge. This simplistic attitude probably served them well in the absence of a system of law and judges, but in todays complex world, it is counter productive.

BREATH TAKING !!! Blaming the victims and praising the occupiers and the thieves !!

Breath taking! You didn't read what I wrote, did you?

I have not blamed anybody, or praised anybody. Read it again.

Breath taking! You didn't read what I wrote, did you?

I have not blamed anybody, or praised anybody. Read it again.


I have to agree with you. Sorry about PMs Emotionalism and some time bias views but we all do that one time or another.

BREATH TAKING !!! Blaming the victims and praising the occupiers and the thieves !!
most Westerners don't understand this point, but Israel is an occupier colony, the UN imposted Israel on a people that was just minding their business, the Jews returned over 1800 years after being expelled by the Romans from their homeland. I don't think that people have a right that long after the fact, otherwise Palestinians are just geting an early start in their 1800 year struggle?

Did you see these pictures before James ? they are the ISRAELI equal to the palestinean suicide bombings: just wondering what a Gandhi or MLK approach would do here? to shame the Israelis into more humane treatment, remember South Africa gained its independence after a combined military & civil disobediance RESPONSE

Israeli Jewish terrorists pose for photo over dead Palestinian civilan !! those Israelis are worse than animals. ironic, that jews started acting just like their nazi oppressors, de-humanizing their enemies

MORE ABOUT THE BARBARIC ISRAELI JEWISH ATROCITIES AGAINST THE PALESTINEANS:
israelis will also be judged by how they treat the "aliens" among them, they have to follow the laws of God too, and He said to treat the 'aliens' & widows fairly.

Randolfo,
Hats off to you...

most Westerners don't understand this point, but Israel is an occupier colony, the UN imposted Israel on a people that was just minding their business, the Jews returned over 1800 years after being expelled by the Romans from their homeland. I don't think that people have a right that long after the fact, otherwise Palestinians are just geting an early start in their 1800 year struggle? So, Israel is the Jewish homeland? Like Mecca, it is a holy land for them, they have a right to it. Anyway some Jews have lived there uninterrupted since the time of Jesus. A few arab goat herders do not make a country. Most of the arabs who would later call themselves Palestinian arrived after the Jews because the Jews were creating jobs there. Then, they got jealous and proud and joined up with other arab countries for war against the Jews. The Jews won, and now the Palestinians grumble about their loss like the American Indians. Get over it! Go back to Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Egypt where they came from! It's not like Israel is a large country, it is small.
just wondering what a Gandhi or MLK approach would do here? to shame the Israelis into more humane treatment, remember South Africa gained its independence after a combined military & civil disobediance RESPONSE You might as well be speaking Greek, the Palestinians have no concept of passive resistance. How humane are suicide bombers?

ironic, that jews started acting just like their nazi oppressors, de-humanizing their enemies Nothing new to muslims to whom non-believers are dehumanized.

israelis will also be judged by how they treat the "aliens" among them, they have to follow the laws of God too, and He said to treat the 'aliens' & widows fairly. They are being treated with all the fairness that is due to them.

Some interesting points in this thread, probably a good time to bring up a tv documentary that was recently on which had interviews with some young Muslim men. They wanted to be suicide bombers, they saw it as glorious and good and they would be rewarded, the reason they were told to do it? Christians taking Muslim spain a few hundred years ago, thats the reason that was given for them to fight this constant struggle against the west, this was being preached to boys as young as 10, the only good thing was that several other Muslims were interviewed and they condemned what was being said. Its all so stupid that people want to fight over something 400 years old, why dont Christians decide to suicide bomb Muslim countrys that were previously Christian and then we can have a religious world war :rolleyes: .

Randolfo,
Hats off to you...
thank you, but anybody that looks at the circumstances to how the modern state of Israel came into existence, would see the obvious. That Israel is a child of the West, of the British, of the UN. Westerners are brainwashed to believe that we must support Israel, as a fellow democracy. Or as a guilt trip, over the Holocaust.

My problem with that is that you can not put a western colony on already inhabited land, & expect the people there to acquiesce by rolling over & playing dead, or putting their hands out as beggars. From previous experience, the West could do that in Africa, the Americas & Asia, but sooner or later the natives revolted, only place they couldn't put up much of a fight was in Australia & the Americas, because the Aboriginals & the Native Americans died of diseases in mass. Arabs, being in close contact to the West for 1400 years, got the same diseases, used, stole or acquired the same technology. The West & Islam are rival cousins, & very bad neighbors.

I find it hard to believe that this Israel is form God, because they do not act like it. This Israel acts like nazis, talks like nazis, so logically they must be nazis. I think that their “messiah”, is the UN, the West their father, the US their mother & the USSR their midwife. Jews are waiting for their Messiah, the reason they don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, is that He did not overthrow the Roman occupiers of the time, bring back the exiles &/or set up a Jewish kingdom.

There's another way to fight. That is to speak out loudly against the wrongs being done. Other people will hear you and condemn the evil acts and the doers of them. In non-violent ways, you and they can exert pressure to achieve a fair outcome.

Suicide bombings by Palestinians only make people sympathetic to the Israelis, and give them an excuse to retaliate with military force.

The only solution to the ongoing violence is for one side to stop it.

speak out loudly? dont you think we've done that. despite are efforts the US still supplies Israel $12 Billion yearly even though Israel DEFIES American rules.

even though Palestinians do speakout its sort of hard when you part of a captured country. also Israel owns huge amoutns of the media (aswell as huge businesses) and it obvioulsy isn;t going to speak out against itself is it. Israel also dont allow aid money from other countires in (the only one im aware of that are allowed is Human Appeal)

This statement points out a cultural difference between middle eastern culture and the west that I don't think has been discussed. This is the culture of REVENGE. It does not even seem to matter how or under what circumstances muslims die, it is necessary for them to get revenge. Even if the actions of those muslims was wrong, you must get revenge. This simplistic attitude probably served them well in the absence of a system of law and judges, but in todays complex world, it is counter productive.

it is not revenge it is called Action. you arent just gonna sit back and watch your people die are you?

if it was the other way round and

if America was getting killed by Muslims then America will take ACTION (or as you call it "revenge") against the Muslim by sending in thier Miliatry.

these oppressed Muslim dont have a milatry though. so instead of sitting back and watching they would fight the only way they can.

thank you, but anybody that looks at the circumstances to how the modern state of Israel came into existence, would see the obvious. That Israel is a child of the West, of the British, of the UN. Westerners are brainwashed to believe that we must support Israel, as a fellow democracy. Or as a guilt trip, over the Holocaust.

My problem with that is that you can not put a western colony on already inhabited land, & expect the people there to acquiesce by rolling over & playing dead, or putting their hands out as beggars. From previous experience, the West could do that in Africa, the Americas & Asia, but sooner or later the natives revolted, only place they couldn't put up much of a fight was in Australia & the Americas, because the Aboriginals & the Native Americans died of diseases in mass. Arabs, being in close contact to the West for 1400 years, got the same diseases, used, stole or acquired the same technology. The West & Islam are rival cousins, & very bad neighbors.

I find it hard to believe that this Israel is form God, because they do not act like it. This Israel acts like nazis, talks like nazis, so logically they must be nazis. I think that their “messiah”, is the UN, the West their father, the US their mother & the USSR their midwife. Jews are waiting for their Messiah, the reason they don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, is that He did not overthrow the Roman occupiers of the time, bring back the exiles &/or set up a Jewish kingdom.

thanks for your post and im glad to see that you arenyt just another brain washed westerner. it is enivitable that these people will fight back. anyone would fight aginat invaders what ever way they could. in this case Palastinans cant fight back against tanks, helicopters, missiles, machine guns and soldiers in advanced gear can they. these people dont even have much food or water so they are going to fight as best they can. heck i knw i woulld. if some invaders came to my country and jacked it and then went off in swimming pools, restuarants and nightclubs while my children were hungry and thirsty heck id fight back.

was OBL muslim? is he? who is he anyway?
are you denying he is a muslim? what? no satillite, TV, radio, or videotape where you live? how nice to live in a world without outside interference

why he is so important to you? so you consider him authroity on islam? just like you consider iran as a authority on islam.
he claims, many follow, so you do not agree? what are your views, would you have followed another tack?

Frankly you are f........
name calling, such bad language, do you teach your children that, or is it admissible to call fifirs anything, I don't need bad words to call you, just the truth will do

stupid if you think obl acted as a muslim or iran has any authority over islam,
you are stupid, if you deny what facts have been laid out in public view for everyone to see, or you expect others to be too stupid to believe that he isn't or that the mullahs aren't, or is the fact that you do not follow them, make them non-authorities? so the question becomes, "who are you?" are you an authority figure in islam? do muslims follow your word, your ideas?

only a ignorant like your self would be dumb enough to believe that or a southern baptist terrorist like your self.

if I am such a "southern baptist terrorist", why does nothing come up on 'google' when I use it as a keyword? while "muslim terrorist" gets 12,200 hits? & "irish terrorist" 2520 hits? maybe, I bring 'terror' to your heart, that you are wrong, as your world-view crumbles, you ask yourself, "how can that kifir be right? no, oh!, Mohammad!, please bring me peace!, oh, I forgot, you're dead, ok, allah give me peace, or are you the cresent-moon god, like that kifir says you are? NO!" you scream, as the terror of not knowing crawls into your heart,
I guess that under those conditions, yes, I am a 'terrorist', I bring truth to the darkness & even demons tremble with 'terror',
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that - and shudder." from James 2:19 (the Letter of James chapter 2: verse 19)

munim_786:

speak out loudly? dont you think we've done that. despite are efforts the US still supplies Israel $12 Billion yearly even though Israel DEFIES American rules.

I must admit, I find the closeness of the US-Israeli relationship puzzling, for exactly that reason. Then again, many Israeli "settlers" come from the US.

even though Palestinians do speakout its sort of hard when you part of a captured country. also Israel owns huge amoutns of the media (aswell as huge businesses) and it obvioulsy isn;t going to speak out against itself is it. Israel also dont allow aid money from other countires in (the only one im aware of that are allowed is Human Appeal)

I sympathise with the Palestinian people, but I do not believe violence is the answer.

thanks for your post and im glad to see that you arenyt just another brain washed westerner.
ok, ok, just because I may agree with you on one thing is one thing, why do you still insult the West? By your saying I'm not "just another brainwashed Westerner", you are implying that all Westerners are. And you are implying that it is bad

I think all people are brain-washed to one degree or another, muslims too. most people just don't know it, because that is the object & subject of our education & culture, to make us members of "this" or "that" group, that's where logic, philosophy & science come in, to help you see through the 'haze', they & the West are not perfect, even with those 'tools' you can still be dumb, but its a start.

And if anyone is wondering why I am a Christian, well suffice it to say, that I come awful close to being a "british empiricist" & logically, I could never answer what came before the "Big Bang" (cause & effect), or why life evolved on our pale blue dot (the 'spark of life') or why it took so long for modern man to create civilizations (what was that 'spark'?)
If e=mc2, where did the e come from to start the process? oscillating or steady-state universes are not good enough for me
http://www.iep.utm.edu/e/emp-brit.htm

I believe that God said, "Let there be light", & there was light, the "Big Bang" in human terms.
I find Christianity truly "Universal", the others are too tribal; islam is too arabic, & Judaism is too jewish & if our God really created the Universe, well, He has to be “universal”

I find it hard to believe that this Israel is form God, because they do not act like it. This Israel acts like nazis, talks like nazis, so logically they must be nazis. I think that their “messiah”, is the UN, the West their father, the US their mother & the USSR their midwife. Jews are waiting for their Messiah, the reason they don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, is that He did not overthrow the Roman occupiers of the time, bring back the exiles &/or set up a Jewish kingdom.

Precisely, It's a cat and mouse game. The jews are using the christains as scape goat to get to their agenda. They once wanted to use jesus to serve their agenda, then when they found out the Jesus is not a toy for them, but a gift to all humanity, they called him blaphsemous and plotted to murder him.

They convince the evangelical christians in the State that they will believe in jesus when he come the second time around, but they're only buying time to build their Israel land on the blood of others.

In my view, jews are unbelievers. They argued with god and they say they believe but they don't really believe. They ask for miracles and they ask for a second coming of jesus to convert, but guess what, if Jesus came down from the sky in bright day light, they would still disbelieve...Afterall, it only took them a few days after they saw a sea part to worship a calf...Some things never change.

as i said at the other thread about this whole israel / palestine ...

Muslim leaders (With the help of the soviet KGB) have speacially created the israeli - palestinian problem to unit all muslims of the world on protection of "Unfortunate Palestinians"
Their task to prepare muslems for struggle against the West
And the West having believed in emancipating war of Palestinians, itself helps muslems to prepare for terrorists to destroy Europe and America
If not give the god they will win Israel , nothing will stop them in destruction of the West
You are deceived with press and TV with the help of Muslim propagation
You do not understand what muslems want
Think and look that already occurs now
Muslems blow up people in Europe and America in exact manner As blow up Israelis
Israel is training camp for muslems and last bastion against capture by them the West
You never excited what occurs to Israelis
And now you have the same problems and the same war as us
You as ostriches wanted to thrust a head in sand
And anything did not excite you
Also it was always a pity "unfortunate Palestinians"
Which blow up hundreds Israelis.
with your support you do not give Israel itself to protect as it is necessary
And it is necessary simply to destroy the enemy
You boycott Israel and Israel cannot apply the force to win Muslim fascists

eventually , the world won't tolerate this behavior for long ...
and all muslims will suffer more than everybody else .
they will be treated as rats , and will be transferred from europe and other country's back to their friend country's ..

good / bad muslim , radical/non-radical , extreme ,whatever ...
nobody will listen to what muslims got to say , nobody is going to care anymore .

they will bring this all on themselves .

good / bad muslim , radical/non-radical , extreme ,whatever ...
nobody will listen to what muslims got to say , nobody is going to care anymore .
they will bring this all on themselves .

I think that over a billion people can talk very nicely within themselves. When we are done with our huge party, we'll call you to discuss other issues and it won't hurt our feeling if you don't listen. We only enjoy talking, who cares if you are listening or not.

I would sure not like to see more than a billion people bring on anything...because it'll be this huge tidal wave that won't ask you to raise your arm if you are muslim before it destroys humanity. Let's all be friends, our earth is too little to rock the tiny boat. The same bullet that you fire in the air, may come down and hunt you back.

Let's all be friends, our earth is too little to rock the tiny boat. The same bullet that you fire in the air, may come down and hunt you back.
Its nice to see people living in a dream land ...

this is exactly what based the muslim propaganda on , people like you .
peaceful people can be deceived easily , this is why Europe is Easy Prey .

i wonder how much blood need to be spiled , that people understand what is going on ...

Its nice to see people living in a dream land ...

this is exactly what based the muslim propaganda on , people like you .
peaceful people can be deceived easily , this is why Europe is Easy Prey .

i wonder how much blood need to be spiled , that people understand what is going on ...

IN THE POST ON THE TOPE OF THIS PAGE you said Muslims are using the media to generate propaganda. you jackass, Israel/jews own almost all of the worlds media and also the big world wide businesses. the ones they dont own are all zionists.

For once I will agree with you Vienna (does it scare you as much as it does me?). The US invading Iraq will only end up in the same way as the war in Vietnam. The notions of the west and intervention for humanitarian reasons is a fallacy. Our past proves that and lets hope our future changes that.

It is when we have despots such as Bush, Blaire and Howard in power who are pushing fear and hate onto their populations that the hate and violence will continue. Islam is not to blame for terrorism. Humanity is to blame, because to hate is to feed people who perpetrate acts of terror.
I said in my post of November last year that this Iraq war will end up like the Vietnam war. It hasn't yet but it's still on track.

This war has turned out to be a horrible farse. You cannot force Democracy on a nation that doesn't want it - anymore than Islam on a nation that doesn't want it. Iraq has and always will be Islamic, and under Islamic rule, and one way or another, it will stay that way, and they will fight till the last drop.

Now if little old me can understand that, but the great leaders of the Western nations can't, then something is very wrong.

IN THE POST ON THE TOPE OF THIS PAGE you said Muslims are using the media to generate propaganda. you jackass, Israel/jews own almost all of the worlds media and also the big world wide businesses. the ones they dont own are all zionists.
Its BS , almost all europe owend by muslims ...

and its not about the media , its the way that the muslims run this whole dirty plan , and its working .

make people belive that they do it from a reason ... and prove something .
damn the world is MAD !


Originally Posted by Vienna
I said in my post of November last year that this Iraq war will end up like the Vietnam war. It hasn't yet but it's still on track.

This war has turned out to be a horrible farse. You cannot force Democracy on a nation that doesn't want it - anymore than Islam on a nation that doesn't want it. Iraq has and always will be Islamic, and under Islamic rule, and one way or another, it will stay that way, and they will fight till the last drop.

Now if little old me can understand that, but the great leaders of the Western nations can't, then something is very wrong.
You really think its all about making Democracy in iraq ?
well yes , it's just a part ...
what the USA did is : preventing more global damage that could happen in the future ...
now they in the middle of Muslim country's ... they got some control over the region .
Iran , Afganistan , syria , and some pakistan control ...
this iraq , is just a start .
thank god they did that .

Its BS , almost all europe owend by muslims ...

Wrong, Europe - or almost all Europe (as you put it) is NOT owned by muslims, although I don't doubt that is their intention. There are great numbers of muslims in Europe, but they will never "own" Europe, much in the same way that the West will never "own" the Middle East.

what the USA did is : preventing more global damage that could happen in the future ...

Please tell me how, by invading Iraq has prevented more global damage that could happen in the future. The only things I have noted are the absence of WMDs, unnecessary killings on both sides, the absence of control over the invaded country, and the absence of reason to invade Iraq.


now they in the middle of Muslim country's ... they got some control over the region...

What control?????


Iran , Afganistan , syria , and some pakistan control ...
this iraq , is just a start ...

You are quite right - It IS a start.

But the start of what I wonder......"Opening a can of worms" springs to mind.

Listen , about those WMD ... bush will tell everything about them when the time is right (Election) ...

What control?????

you don't think that being there won't change anything ?

why do you think Kadafi agreed to play along and give away WMD and cope with the USA ?

those things don't happen from no reason .

listen , i know lots of americans don't get why they invaded to iraq...
what the hell we need this ? just wasting money ....

i belive by that act , lots of bad things prevented ...
maybe you won't notice them ... and its better like that .

but what if nothing been done by the USA?
and something really bad happend in the future ... ppl will start to say : why nobody tried to prevent this .

you see , people care about what they have at the moment ...
at this moment they think iraq invasion was bad idea , they lots money ...
and economics sucks .

but economics will grow with time .
this is what they don't understand .

Listen , about those WMD ... bush will tell everything about them when the time is right (Election) ...

Netspider - are you for fucking real - fuck your election. If Bush has any explanations to why he used the excuse of the WMD he better start telling the world NOW.

This isn't just about American politics - this is about peoples lives being lost because of an illegal war. Bush started it, he dragged his poodle Blair into it, they sidestepped the United Nations, and because of Bush & Co innocent people have lost their lives. So pardon me if I seem annoyed at your comments - but you can stuff Bush and his election up where the sun don't shine. Ask Bush to write apologetic letters to all the families who have lost their loved ones for NO FUCKING REASON.

you don't think that being there won't change anything ?...

It isn't changing anything, the troops have not the control they desire over Iraq. The Iraqi people want us out - pronto. And the sooner the better.
BRING OUR TROOPS HOME.

why do you think Kadafi agreed to play along and give away WMD and cope with the USA ?...

Now that is one MF that I do not trust, I would sooner trust Saddam - and I'm not joking.


i belive by that act , lots of bad things prevented ...
maybe you won't notice them ... and its better like that ....

Tell me what bad things have been prevented, and how do you know this?

And why is what better like that?


but what if nothing been done by the USA?
and something really bad happend in the future ... ppl will start to say : why nobody tried to prevent this ....
Things are still happening today if you haven't noticed - terrorism is thriving.

but economics will grow with time .
this is what they don't understand ...

Whose economics - Americas?

Please tell me how, by invading Iraq has prevented more global damage that could happen in the future. The only things I have noted are the absence of WMDs, unnecessary killings on both sides, the absence of control over the invaded country, and the absence of reason to invade Iraq.

.

SHUT UP! stupid euros. WAR IS RIGHT. WE will do whatever it takes to save the americans. WE will attack your country if we have to. All of the europe NEEFDS USA. USA Don't NEED YOUR EUROPE> JUST JOIN US or JOIN THEM and we will deal you.

But yet christians have killed more people in the worlds in all the wars and genocides etc then muslims. Why is that?


More genocides and more wars started and fought by christians then muslims. Why is that??

Since you claimed that Christianity is the only peacful religion of the world. *sigh*


Huh I guess you are taking advantage of people not knowing the Arab history in order to make this comment.

In fact islam when it started to spread was spread by the sword as the Koran says all across north Africa and up till China Millions where killed in these Crusades also the crusades had two peoples battling each other and I am pretty sure that both sides killed in the name of the Same God.


Lets not forget what the Turks did to the Greeks and the Armenians.

Well I know that Christainty at the 1400 mark was very bloody but people didnt know better then. I know also that you guys are at your 1400 for Islam but with the Knowleage we have today we should be getting better not worse.

A very intresting Conversion with a Former Terrorist :
Read Part 1 & 2 !

http://www.cbn.com/CBNNews/News/040324e.asp

Vienna <= where you from ?

Its BS , almost all europe owend by muslims ...

and its not about the media , its the way that the muslims run this whole dirty plan , and its working .

make people belive that they do it from a reason ... and prove something .
damn the world is MAD !


You really think its all about making Democracy in iraq ?
well yes , it's just a part ...
what the USA did is : preventing more global damage that could happen in the future ...
now they in the middle of Muslim country's ... they got some control over the region .
Iran , Afganistan , syria , and some pakistan control ...
this iraq , is just a start .
thank god they did that .

America and all it's allies are poking a hole in the boat they're in. I don't know where you are spider but if you are in their boat I sure hope you know how to swim :eek: :eek:

You really think its all about making Democracy in iraq ?
well yes , it's just a part ...
what the USA did is : preventing more global damage that could happen in the future ...
now they in the middle of Muslim country's ... they got some control over the region .
Iran , Afganistan , syria , and some pakistan control ...
this iraq , is just a start .
thank god they did that .
HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHAAAAAA HAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAAHAHA AHAHAHAAAA AHAHAAAAA HAHA HAAAAHA HAHAAHAHAHAAAA HAHAHAAAA

Oh shit that's the funniest thing I've read in a long long time.

You're saying thank God they ILLEGALLY invaded another country and killed thousands of innocent people? Are you for real? Next you're probably going to tell us that the Earth is flat and the sun is a giant light bulb in the sky plugged into a generator out the back.

And on a side note... their invading another country for oil has not given them control over the region. Read the news child and you tell me how much control they really have.

i belive by that act , lots of bad things prevented ...
maybe you won't notice them ... and its better like that .

but what if nothing been done by the USA?
and something really bad happend in the future ... ppl will start to say : why nobody tried to prevent this .

Oh my lord... HA HA HA HAHA HAAAA HAHAHAHAAAAAA you have got to be kidding me. By ILLEGALLY invading Iraq, they have now ensured that bad things will happen in the future.

Americano
SHUT UP! stupid euros. WAR IS RIGHT. WE will do whatever it takes to save the americans. WE will attack your country if we have to. All of the europe NEEFDS USA. USA Don't NEED YOUR EUROPE> JUST JOIN US or JOIN THEM and we will deal you.
Really? You will do whatever it takes to save the Americans? Oh bless you! Now if you really want to save the Americans, take them out of Iraq for starters. That would save a couple of thousands American soldiers for starters. The reason that Americans are dying is because of their stupid foreign policy and because of the manner in which they continuously intervene in the politics of other countries and try to impose their warped sense of democracy on other States. Americans are dying because they ILLEGALLY invade other countries under false pretenses. Americans are dying because they have a dickhead of a leader who's only on an oil grab.

And you tell the American industries and farmers that they don't need Europe. I'm sure they'll agree with you when the money in the bank starts to dry up.

Americano you [deleted]. i have no problem with America but i do have a problem with its goverment and [deleted]. America will end up killing itself (with the aid of a bunch of Soviets, Nazis, Israelis (once they get sick of you) and loads and laods of terrorists).

America has been at war since 1775. The US has never been at peace. The following are considered major conflicts: Revolutionary War (1775-1783), War of 1812 (1812-1815), Mexican War (1846-1848), Civil War (1861-1865), Spanish American War (1898), World War I (1917-1918), World War II (1941-1945), Korean War (1950-1953), Vietnam War (1964-1972), and the Gulf War I (1990-1991). And that list excludes the invasion of Panama, Grenada, Serbia, Gulf War II and a whole slew of covert actions that overthrew governments the world over. The future holds Iran, North Korea, Syria, Colombia, Nepal, Sri Lanka and, arguably, the entire planet.

AND AMERICA WILL KILL ITSELF. THE MORE illegal crap it does to people the more pissed people will become and the moree terrorists will emerge. it is inevitbale that anti-americajn terrorrist will one day heave nukes. EVERYONE HATES AMERICA it just there to scared to do anything but this is changing.

Huh I guess you are taking advantage of people not knowing the Arab history in order to make this comment.

In fact islam when it started to spread was spread by the sword as the Koran says all across north Africa and up till China Millions where killed in these Crusades also the crusades had two peoples battling each other and I am pretty sure that both sides killed in the name of the Same God.


Lets not forget what the Turks did to the Greeks and the Armenians.

Well I know that Christainty at the 1400 mark was very bloody but people didnt know better then. I know also that you guys are at your 1400 for Islam but with the Knowleage we have today we should be getting better not worse.

you cant blame people's religion for their actions. anyway if you think Christinaty isn;t bloody do the maths, in WW 2 56.4 Million dead (started by a Christian country and finished by one), WW 1 20 Million dead. these 2 wars alone have killed 80 Million people. so in ONE CENTURY they have killed 80 million people.

also since were on the subject of the crusades. the crusaders wanted to go to Jeruselum and give it Christian rule. but they created the whole fu*king problem in the first place becasue in Jeruselam MUSLIMS, CHRISTAINS and JEWS were living PEACEFULLY side by side. each of the religions respected eachother and each traded with eachother and let each other practice religion in PEACE. as a symbol of each religions tolernace for each other. daily, a Muslim opened the door for the Christians to pray and vice versa as a symbol of everyones tolerance to eachother. all religion lived in HARMONY. this is what religion should be and is a great example of all religion tolerance and respect to eachother.

but then the foriegn crusadrers came.

these bloody crusaders were completely barabric and there is no way they were proper Christians. the looted villages, raped women, slashed the bellies of pregnant women. they didn;t want this racial harmony they wanted power so attacked the Muslims and Jews even though they were living peacfully. everyone was outraged, even the Christians of Jerusalem becaue they had been living peacfully with Muslims & Jews but there was nothing these simple villagers could do.

anywaym the rest is history there were various battles etc. blah blah.

you can't blame people's religion for their actionsNow that is classicly funny.

Huh I guess you are taking advantage of people not knowing the Arab history in order to make this comment.

In fact islam when it started to spread was spread by the sword as the Koran says all across north Africa and up till China Millions where killed in these Crusades also the crusades had two peoples battling each other and I am pretty sure that both sides killed in the name of the Same God.


Lets not forget what the Turks did to the Greeks and the Armenians.

Well I know that Christainty at the 1400 mark was very bloody but people didnt know better then. I know also that you guys are at your 1400 for Islam but with the Knowleage we have today we should be getting better not worse.


Puhlease........you have no idead what you are talking about. Read the history of islam and how it was spread. You online scholars are the worst when it comes anything about history or today's events. Sad bunch.


Hey kido read and then come back

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/islam/islamsbook.html

ok, ok, just because I may agree with you on one thing is one thing, why do you still insult the West? By your saying I'm not "just another brainwashed Westerner", you are implying that all Westerners are. And you are implying that it is bad

I think all people are brain-washed to one degree or another, muslims too. most people just don't know it, because that is the object & subject of our education & culture, to make us members of "this" or "that" group, that's where logic, philosophy & science come in, to help you see t