Muslim medical students get picky
Daniel Foggo and Abul Taher
timesonline.co.uk

Some Muslim medical students are refusing to attend lectures or answer exam questions on alcohol-related or sexually transmitted diseases because they claim it offends their religious beliefs.

Some trainee doctors say learning to treat the diseases conflicts with their faith, which states that Muslims should not drink alcohol and rejects sexual promiscuity.

A small number of Muslim medical students have even refused to treat patients of the opposite sex. One male student was prepared to fail his final exams rather than carry out a basic examination of a female patient.

The religious objections by students have been confirmed by the British Medical Association (BMA) and General Medical Council (GMC), which both stressed that they did not approve of such actions.

It will intensify the debate sparked last week by the disclosure that Sainsbury’s is permitting Muslim checkout operators to refuse to handle customers’ alcohol purchases on religious grounds. It means other members of staff have to be called over to scan in wine and beer for them at the till.

Critics, including many Islamic scholars, see the concessions as a step too far, and say Muslims are reneging on their professional responsibilities.

This weekend, however, it emerged that Sainsbury’s is also allowing its Muslim pharmacists to Refuse to sell the morning-after pill to customers...."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article2603966.ece

Didn't you mention this before?

If you aren't allowed to drink alcohol, why can't you treat alcoholism? That doesn't make any sense. One would think knowing the dangers of alcohol would let you make a better argument against it to your patients.

No. I never mentioned it before.

But it seems a both a dogmatic and dangerous trend, especially in Europe where demographically Muslims are on the increase.

so they shouldn't get their medical licenses. Easy as that.

Hey All

I hope all is good and thank AA for starting this thread

A couple of points

1) the article says some muslim students, how many is some?? Is it 2 or 3 or 5, or 500???
2) Its states ISlamic scholars have denounced these decisoins

In my humble opion i beleive these guys are wrong, from my ujndertsanding there is nothing wrong with learning anything, even how beer is manufactured etc...


If nthese guys dont want to get involved with Alchohol or std then why learn medical..

Also the Sainsburys issue annoys me,if these guys dont want to be at the cashier and scan alchohol products then why do they get a job in Sainsburys...

What dont they understand that they live in a country where muslims are the minority????


~~~~~~~~~

Take care
zak

You've got to adapt, To me, It seems like different muslims from different cultural backgrounds adapt differently.

No. I never mentioned it before.

What's this?
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1602312&postcount=101

hEY sPIDEY

Hows it going?

it seems liek AA is knda obsessed with these types of issues.... I am flattered that he cares for the welfare of muslims so much

~~~~
cheers
zak

What's this?
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1602312&postcount=101
That was 1 minute AFTER this string was placed by me in another string here.
(and it was covered 2 minutes later by another post)

SO you would NOT have seen it before and it would NOT have been "Familiar".

Hey All

I hope all is good and thank AA for starting this thread



Your Welcome. Please make up you mind though as your next post you seem Less "thankful"


A couple of points

1) the article says some muslim students, how many is some?? Is it 2 or 3 or 5, or 500???
2) Its states ISlamic scholars have denounced these decisoins

I don't know but I'm going to go look.
Do YOU know how to use google or am I going to have to do it all?


In my humble opion i beleive these guys are wrong, from my ujndertsanding there is nothing wrong with learning anything, even how beer is manufactured etc...

I agree


Also the Sainsburys issue annoys me,if these guys dont want to be at the cashier and scan alchohol products then why do they get a job in Sainsburys...

What dont they understand that they live in a country where muslims are the minority????
Excellent Points.
You can't pick and choose medications as a Pharmacist, that's a doctor's job. Thankfully, no heart medications are made from pork prroducts or are derived genetically from them, but this Could happen. Some medications are derived from animal products; I think pigs among them.

A similar issue exists in Minneapolis, where many/most of the Taxi drivers are Somali muslims.
Some refuse to pick up fares if they see they're carrying any alocohol (Wine, Beer, etc) even in closed bottles or Cases. Which is very common at airports because of Duty free shops, etc.

Many types of surgery are practiced on pigs.

any doctor who refuses to give necesairy treatment based on gender race occupation etc. Should most simply not be given a licensen and be finend if ever he comes in a situation where he is asked and able to assist but doesn't.

Man I love agenda posters.

Well, don't y'all worry, the mamby-pamby, liberal doo-gooders will figure out some way to let those medical students off the hook. And the same with the taxi drivers in Wisconsin. Special rules for Muslims ....or else we'll be subject to horrendous vengeance from the Muslims of the world.

Baron Max

My question is... Why are theses Muslims trying to become doctor (or whatever) if they reject a lot of the basic ideas that are practiced? I wouldn't want one of these students be my doctor.

Don't they use alcohol wipes and swabs in hospitals?

any doctor who refuses to give necesairy treatment based on gender race occupation etc. Should most simply not be given a licensen and be finend if ever he comes in a situation where he is asked and able to assist but doesn't.

I agree with that, but what if in good conscience you can not do what the State says you must? or what if your good conscience is warped?

early last century eugenics was ok, so was to see what would happen if a disease was left untreated; see Tuskegee syphilis experiment

Nazi drs in good conscience infected Jews (& Japanese drs worked on Chinese) with diseases or exposed them to extreme cold as part of experiments in endurance & disease progression

whose choice is it, who &/or what to treat, the drs, the State or the client? and under what conditions?

there's a professor with a disability at my nephew's college, that stated that he wants to make a clone of himself, just for the body parts, that he would personally scramble that clone-person's brain, so that he could use (it) as his spare parts factory, is that moral or ethical? it don't sound that way to me

whose choice is it anyway?

My question is... Why are theses Muslims trying to become doctor (or whatever) if they reject a lot of the basic ideas that are practiced? I wouldn't want one of these students be my doctor.funny, but if you look back in history, muslims were in the forefront of medicine shortly after the conquered the Middle East, they had a wealth of riches, info & physicians to synthesize these parts into a whole

they also discovered the formula for alcohol in their quest for the sorcerers stone in alchemy

Guess religion made they revert back father then they have come, poor bastards...

Let us ignore the fact that it is a small number of students and that the Islamic scholars do not support the concessions.

Let us ignore the fact that it is a small number of students .not ignoring it, just that it shouldn't happen, do you see Jewish students saying that they won't work on whatever? or Christians, or Sikhs, or Buddhists, as students they have to learn whatever, its after they graduate that they can name their standards, hrs of operation, specialties, etc...


and that the Islamic scholars do not support the concessionsits about time they spoke up, where have all these moderate mulsims been all this time, letting the world think that islam is only about jihad, car bombs, beheadings & anti-West rhetoric?

its about time

That really makes me sick. What the hell gives them the right to decide that some people are worthy of treatment, but others are not. Someone is still a human being who has good and bad qualities, who has people they care about, even if they have a sexually transmitted disease.

Those idiots are doing the majority who are sensible, sane, decent Muslims no favours at all.

so they shouldn't get their medical licenses. Easy as that.

Very concise and acceptable answer...weed out the bias early. If they have a problem with modern medicine, these students should not be permitted to wear a stethoscope.

Further the pharmacists that refuse to sell legal medication based on religious beliefs should have their commercial license revoked.

Well, this would be sensible.

Which is why it will never happen.

Here is one woman's response in another forum to a similar accusation aimed at some Muslim doctors.


Is that any different from Christian doctors refusing to prescribe birth control to women who request it? Or Christian pharmacists refusing to fill such prescriptions, even if there is no other nearby pharmacy?

Is that any different from Christian doctors refusing to prescribe the morning after pill for women who were raped?

These incidents of refusal of care have occured throughout the US, and in several jurisdictions, there is legislation pending to make it legal to refuse treatment, or to refuse to fill prescriptions, on "moral" grounds.

I will say this, Wayne, I agree with you that it's appalling that these Muslim doctors refused to treat anyone - after all, doctors should abide by the Hippocratic oath - "First, do no harm" (named for the ancient Greek Hippocrates, who is considered the father of medicine). However, if you are going to condemn the Muslim doctors for refusing care, then I'd like to hear you condemn the Christian doctors who are similarly refusing care.

Can you do it?

Jocelyn, Rockville (Sent Friday, July 06, 2007 9:06 AM)

I think doctors who refuse to treat patients for religious reasons should be declared Unfit to Practise and should lose their licence and registration benefits.

Well, this would be sensible.

Which is why it will never happen.
Frustrating but true Geoff. What's going on with the taxi drivers in Wisconsin?

The taxi drivers in Wisconsin? Oh, the "monitoring" crowd? No idea. Presumably Big Brother silenced them all. But don't tell anyone. (It would be sensationalistic.)

I think doctors who refuse to treat patients for religious reasons should be declared Unfit to Practise and should lose their licence and registration benefits.

^^ I agre 100%.