Music Theory???

Discussion in 'Art & Culture' started by sargentlard, Feb 15, 2009.

  1. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,698
    This may or may not have been mentioned before but I want an answer to this.

    Why is term Music theory have the word theory in it?

    We know it works, how it works, why it works and the fact that great music exists is because it works. So why not give music knowledge it's props for being so awesome and give it a more honest name.

    Any suggestions?

    Music facts

    The way of the music

    The Force?

    That shit you didn't understand in Junior High school (Too long perhaps?)

    Music manifesto

    Music reasoning

    Music concept
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    As many other words, the word theory has 2 contradicting definitions. Stupid & unnecessarily confusing but that's human nature.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,397
    It's to distinguish it from music practice.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    What you learn in a Western school of classical music as the structure of music and how it works, is a theory.

    Like Newton's Theory of Gravity, Einstein's Theory of Relativity, Darwin's Theory of Evolution, etc, it works for almost everything to which it is usually applied.

    In India, music is composed according to somewhat different theories. Tuvan folk music is made according to a different theory. Balinese Gamelin music is composed according to a different theory. Even some Western classical music involves what are, at least, strange extensions and sub-fields of the standard Western theory.
     
  8. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,698
    Still a bad name for it though.
     
  9. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,698
    I understand that but why not call that Music structure, as opposed to theory. Different type of structures but none of them a theory.
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    Because it isn't music structure. It's a theory of how music is, or should be, structured - a way of comprehending and describing the structure, not the structure itself.

    You seem to be bringing an unnecessary requirement of uncertainty into the word "theory". Theories are not guesses. They are approaches. James put it succinctly when he distinguished theory from practice.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2009
  11. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,698
    Isn't it really basic laws of harmony of notes? The theortical parts are left to the musician. I'd consider that the creative interpretation.
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    Plenty of musicians well-versed in practice have no familiarity with theory in music.
     
  13. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,698
    Practice and muscle coordination is a whole another beast.

    I am just saying Music theory, to me, is basic laws of harmonization and soundwave coordinations which are set in stone. Of course you can start delving into theoritcal concepts upon further, deep study of note relations.

    The basic fundamentals (i.e no half step between B & C) are strict rules. Why still label them under the term "Theory"
     
  14. Vkothii Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,674
    Because if music is an algebra and 'sound' is a field, then music theory extends the algebra over the field.

    Written music (and recorded music in any form) is a lot of 'theories' that support this extension.
     
  15. sargentlard Save the whales motherfucker Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,698
    So you're saying all recorded music is just empirical evidence? Not a product but a test which always returns the same results?
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    They may be set in stone in one place, but different ones will be found in other places.

    Classical music in India has I think 22 steps in an octave. There is a step between b and c, in Indian classical music, and the theory of composition learned by Indian classical musicians is accordingly different.
     
  17. Vkothii Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,674
    It's a product, but it doesn't return the same results. If you can hear something "new" or different each time - some people are musically tuned this way - you get to extend, i.e. compose something "musical", but not all by yourself.

    Although it might be interesting to isolate someone and see if they can "become musical all by themselves".
     
  18. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    I don't get the impression that most of you people who have posted are actually musicians.

    Do you know what the Circle of Fourths is? Can you name the dominant, subdominant and relative minor in the key of C major? Do you understand that notes are in harmony when their frequencies are in the ratio of small integers? Can you explain what component of a dominant seventh chord makes it so edgy? Do you know what it means to resolve a chord progression? Do you understand that reggae is doubly syncopated? Can you describe the subtle difference between a country shuffle and a western swing beat? Can you enumerate what defines rock and roll as a specific sub-genre of jazz? Have you heard of the Tristan Chord? Can you identify the modalities that make Arabic and Chinese music sound so different from Western music?

    This is music theory.
     
  19. CheskiChips Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,538
    When most people think "Music theory" they are really thinking "Western Tonal Harmony", Tonal Harmony is a type of Music theory but not all of it. Greeks had their Music Theory, Russians have theres, Hungarians have their own scale...Asians..it goes on.
     
  20. clusteringflux Version 1. OH! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,766
    I wish I knew theory. Though, I've noticed that a lot of the times educated players that write things that should rock "in theory" often times ...don't.

    When it comes to bringing people to their feet at a venue I apply the KISS method.
    That is "Keep It Simple, Stupid".
     
  21. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,391
    The examples in question aren't even set in stone in Western Classic music anymore, for that matter. Maybe 150 years ago they were, but we're already generations past Cage and Stockhausen by now...
     
  22. Vkothii Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,674
    I have a small notebook from Trinity College that covers theory from Grade I to Grade IV (it's about 1/4" thick)

    If you can learn and understand its contents, you're a music theorist - I still refer to it sometimes (not often these days) to confirm things like expression markers (cantabile; con tenerazza; giusto; rubato, etc). But reading music notation, which includes a general set of expressive and rhythmic markers, when to use the damper pedal, etc, you just pick it up after a while. You get to learn a bit of French and German, apart from the standard Italian words, even a spot of Russian.

    Playing sheet music means you get to interpret it - you play your very own version; generally people who can play an instrument are keenly aware of this, and what it sounds like, unless they happen to be tone-deaf and lack a sense of rhythm or co-ordination. It's no big deal if you practise for long enough - you can't help but improve your style.

    So music notation and theory - of harmony and rhythm, and "composition" or structure - are instructions to help you improve your style. Some people can play without learning (what) a single note (of it is), so to speak.
     
  23. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,391
    Theory is intended more for people that are composing music, rather than simply playing music someone else composed. Certain portions of modern music theory are completely divorced from any concept of performance, as they deal with compositions that cannot be performed by humans.
     

Share This Page