Hear ye! Hear ye!

Quran 61:10-13

10. O you who believe, let Me inform you of a trade that will save you from painful retribution.

11. Believe in GOD and His messenger and strive in the cause of GOD with your money and your lives. This is the best deal for you, if you only knew.

12. In return, He forgives your sins, and admits you into gardens with flowing streams, with beautiful mansions in the gardens of Eden. This is the greatest triumph.

13. Additionally, you get something you truly love: support from GOD and guaranteed victory. Give good news to the believers.



With the promise of loot, sex, salvation & instant victory from Allah, the Muslim hordes was unleashed from the deserts of Arabia and swept the world by surprise. The feuding empires of Persia & Syria, weakened by their ongoing wars, were attacked from the rear and fell instantly to the sword of Islam. Westward & Eastward the Jihadists rolled. Jerusalem, Egypt, North Africa & India fell one by one like dominoes. The muslim barbarians even crossed Gibraltar to steal the lands of spain. France was next on the list. The backdoor to Europe since Byzantine was impregnable at that time. France the only thing standing between Islam and total world domination. On 732 the goon hordes of Islam with the aid of the false god Allah unleashed their might on the Franks. Already they have wrought devastation on the southern towns of the kingdom when Charles Martel came to the scene and faced the fury of Allah. Martel slew the mortal leader of the horde while the Christians fought eagerly at Martel’s side repelling the Islamic savagery. The Allah & the muslims finally retreated and afterwards continued to suffer defeat after defeat. With all the Virtual powers of the false god Allah he was shamefully defeated by the human hero Charles Martel. VIVA LA FRANCE! Thank you for standing up to oppression. Thank you for saving man’s future from the oppression of Islam.

What is the point of this thread? Does god have a butt?

You are building out a real nice resume...and fast, just two days, and you have set for youself a trend. Consider the time when you run for an office and we start looking at your accomplishment.
http://www.sciforums.com/search.php?searchid=52990

Thank you for saving man’s future from the oppression of Islam. The problem with agit-prop is that it usually isn't true.

Such is the case. Such is life.

Who will save us from the post-Christian West?

At any rate, there's nothing like celebrating the racism of old. One of the problems of claiming a better way is that one actually has to show one. The West has only made piles of money; it hasn't made a better life. Would you prefer Muslims any better if they simply used bankers and lawyers to steal food from your mouth, as the West does?

After all, it was only a few centuries later that Europe tried to kill itself. I'd say the Inquisitions show that it never really was about defeating Muslims for the European Christians, but just about being bloodthirsty, glory-seeking bastards. And such a history is more in line with the Western world today.

It gets back to Robert Ruarks "Something of Value". White man replaces old culture with a much better newer culture only to find out the opposite. If we replace a value system it must be better than the old one.

The problem with agit-prop is that it usually isn't true.

Such is the case. Such is life.

Who will save us from the post-Christian West?

At any rate, there's nothing like celebrating the racism of old. One of the problems of claiming a better way is that one actually has to show one. The West has only made piles of money; it hasn't made a better life. Would you prefer Muslims any better if they simply used bankers and lawyers to steal food from your mouth, as the West does?

After all, it was only a few centuries later that Europe tried to kill itself. I'd say the Inquisitions show that it never really was about defeating Muslims for the European Christians, but just about being bloodthirsty, glory-seeking bastards. And such a history is more in line with the Western world today.
Try not to complicate things. Just choose between these two...

1. Would you rather live in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, & Somalia?

or

2. Would you rather live in Europe, America, Japan, Hongkong, Australia & India?

Countless muslims are choosing #2. What would you choose? If you choose the same then you better thank Charles Martel too, eh?

Strive in the cause of God? What is God's cause? Surely not wordly victories, more likely personal spiritual ones.

And yes, Flores, we are made in his image, so he must have a butt... but no navel.

Try not to complicate things. Try not to dumb things down so much. If you get too dull, the point becomes no point at all.

Either/or is an archaic concept that we know is false in the world. It's not one or two, yes or no. There is, inevitably, a maybe, gray zone, or third option.

Just because a woman's not being raped in the ass doesn't mean she's not being raped.

Celebrating the ignorance of the West as you have only testifies to the paucity of Western ideals and values.

Are you stoned or drunk? Go ahead, pick one to represent your life. There are only two options, you know. You must be one or the other.

Does that seem fallacious? Welcome to it, Doctor No.

No dualism is concrete.

Yes yes, there's certainly nothing like a good old fashion false dilemma. It's got to be one or the other, black or white! I honestly don't think it'd have made much of a difference whether Europe became Muslim or not in the first few hundred years AD. Look at the direction that America has been able to take despites it's own puritanical Christian roots, I doubt the outcome would be much different whether it was Allah or Jesus that they were praying to.

Try not to dumb things down so much. If you get too dull, the point becomes no point at all.

Either/or is an archaic concept that we know is false in the world. It's not one or two, yes or no. There is, inevitably, a maybe, gray zone, or third option.

Well then why don’t you propose a gray zone between the 2 choices I gave you eh?


Just because a woman's not being raped in the ass doesn't mean she's not being raped.

Irrelevant.


Celebrating the ignorance of the West as you have only testifies to the paucity of Western ideals and values.

How is that relevant in this discussion? You either live in an Islamic ruled state or in a non Islamic ruled-state. And I didn’t limit my example to the West, I also named Japan, Hongkong, India & Australia.


Are you stoned or drunk? Go ahead, pick one to represent your life. There are only two options, you know. You must be one or the other.

I would rather live in a non-islamic state. Hongkong is too alien to me but I would choose that anytime than live in the barbaric lands of the muslims. What about you?

Strive in the cause of God? What is God's cause? Surely not wordly victories, more likely personal spiritual ones.

And yes, Flores, we are made in his image, so he must have a butt... but no navel.

The context of that verse is WAR. Muslims must continue fighting non-muslims until BOTH objectives are met.

1. All religion is for their false god Allah. Which means no room for hinduism & paganism. Compulsion plain & simple.

2. No more oppression.

Yes yes, there's certainly nothing like a good old fashion false dilemma. It's got to be one or the other, black or white! I honestly don't think it'd have made much of a difference whether Europe became Muslim or not in the first few hundred years AD. Look at the direction that America has been able to take despites it's own puritanical Christian roots, I doubt the outcome would be much different whether it was Allah or Jesus that they were praying to.

Some positions could only be either/or. You could either be alive or dead, never undead. You could either be ruled by Islam or not ruled by Islam. If you think there is a possible gray region there then please tell me.

Some positions could only be either/or. You could either be alive or dead, never undead. You could either be ruled by Islam or not ruled by Islam. If you think there is a possible gray region there then please tell me.


Only you like to think so much in terms of black and white. Mystech is absolutely correct. Religion, no matter which one you are talking about could be separated from the State, and that applies to Islam. In order for religion to stay pure, you must keep it private in the heart of the people and out of the control of groups and governments. Egypt for example, uses Frensh laws, yet it has 90% muslim population.

DoctorNo, Although I don't agree with Bush on everything, I think America knows exactly what the problem is. The problem could be narrowed down to one word "SAUDI". The real root of terrorism, the real root of fanatic ideas about Islam, the real root of all troubles. Saudi, a country that have allowed pagan traditions to define Islam and is using it's wealth from oil to import these ideas to other countries. The poor arabic countries who are hopeless with bad economy can only find relief working in or for Saudis. After so many years of this, we end up with a bunch of Saudi look alikes who would imitate a monkey to get their salary. Fix Saudi and you fix the entire arabic world...Fix Saudi and Islam will be purified. It's that plain and simple, and it's more political than religious. On top of all that, Saudi owns geographically one of the most holliest sites in the whole world. Mecca. Mecca is the first house of god build by Abraham and described in the bible as the corner stone building. By guess what, the keys of the house falls with the Saudis, they get to define it, allow whomever they wish to it, turn whomever they wish from it, decorate it, introduce paganism to it, ect......

Just imagine this, one country owns the entire energy source and houses the house of god. A bunch of ignorant bedwins who used to live in tents and all of sudden became oil filthy rich and acting as spiritual leaders. No transition whatsoever between their backward culture and their super rich status, much like the "Beverly Hills Show". Then on top of all that, we let these idiots define Islam for us because somehow we need their money. Saudi needs to be retrofitted and bad, and It's not Islam that needs to be changed.

Egypt for example, uses Frensh laws, yet it has 90% muslim population.

Then they are not ruled by Islam. Thats not a grey region.

I wonder if democracy would ever be discovered if Charles Martel failed to defeat Allah.

Then they are not ruled by Islam. Thats not a grey region.

I wonder if democracy would ever be discovered if Charles Martel failed to defeat Allah.

I don't know what you are talking about? Do you know that India is the only democracy in the world....and they can't do anything because of it. Democracy is the curse of India. America is a republican...I'm not sure about France, but I think it's a socialist country.. Charles Martel didn't discover any democracy, he wouldn't know what democracy is if it hits him in the forehead.

I don't know what you are talking about? Do you know that India is the only democracy in the world....and they can't do anything because of it. Democracy is the curse of India. America is a republican...I'm not sure about France, but I think it's a socialist country.. Charles Martel didn't discover any democracy, he wouldn't know what democracy is if it hits him in the forehead.

There are many forms of democracy. It is probably just your opinion to say that only india is the true democracy.

Martel did not discover democracy but his military success ensured the preservation of greek & Romand cultures which houses the Republic form of government which is the precursor of democracy.

The problem could be narrowed down to one word "SAUDI". The real root of terrorism, the real root of fanatic ideas about Islam, the real root of all troubles. Saudi, a country that have allowed pagan traditions to define Islam and is using it's wealth from oil to import these ideas to other countries. The poor arabic countries who are hopeless with bad economy can only find relief working in or for Saudis. After so many years of this, we end up with a bunch of Saudi look alikes who would imitate a monkey to get their salary. Fix Saudi and you fix the entire arabic world...Fix Saudi and Islam will be purified. It's that plain and simple, and it's more political than religious. On top of all that, Saudi owns geographically one of the most holliest sites in the whole world. Mecca. Mecca is the first house of god build by Abraham and described in the bible as the corner stone building. By guess what, the keys of the house falls with the Saudis, they get to define it, allow whomever they wish to it, turn whomever they wish from it, decorate it, introduce paganism to it, ect......

Just imagine this, one country owns the entire energy source and houses the house of god. A bunch of ignorant bedwins who used to live in tents and all of sudden became oil filthy rich and acting as spiritual leaders. No transition whatsoever between their backward culture and their super rich status, much like the "Beverly Hills Show". Then on top of all that, we let these idiots define Islam for us because somehow we need their money. Saudi needs to be retrofitted and bad, and It's not Islam that needs to be changed.

Sounds like mission impossible. Especially that muslims are submissive to the religious authorities above them.

There are many forms of democracy. It is probably just your opinion to say that only india is the true democracy.



It's not my opinion, it's the truth. Democracy is an idealistic term that implies that every citizen have an equal vote in determining the future of their country. Only India truly applies this, and it has shown to be a very slow process.

Martel did not discover democracy but his military success ensured the preservation of greek & Romand cultures which houses the Republic form of government which is the precursor of democracy.

The Romans didn't excercise democracy, they appointed elite few to make decisions on their behalf. It's pure dictatorship, with just more dictators than we are used to for blaming, instead of a one person dictatorship to get all the blame. If anything, I think romans invented dictatorships.....and they invented racism and occupations. They taught the whole world the art of enslave others and steal other countries resources.

The Frensh are arrogant bitches. They understand nothing about democracy. They enslaved the whole world at one point so that their white wigged elite can have another ball party. How did the Frensh excercise democracy in their occupations??? They were one of the worst occupation for Egypt. So much for the culture that you rave about. Napolean idea of breaking Egypt pride has resulted in him aiming a cannon at the sphinx to break it's nose....His culture has destroyed 5000 years of architectural marvels.....His ugly language has erased many beautifull native dialects that were used all along North Africa....What culture are you talking about?

It's not my opinion, it's the truth. Democracy is an idealistic term that implies that every citizen have an equal vote in determining the future of their country. Only India truly applies this, and it has shown to be a very slow process.

Do you mean to say that a democracy allows every citizen to vote for every decision making issues of the country?


The Romans didn't excercise democracy, they appointed elite few to make decisions on their behalf. It's pure dictatorship, with just more dictators than we are used to for blaming, instead of a one person dictatorship to get all the blame. If anything, I think romans invented dictatorships.....and they invented racism and occupations. They taught the whole world the art of enslave others and steal other countries resources.

That’s why I said “PRECURSOR”.


The Frensh are arrogant bitches. They understand nothing about democracy. They enslaved the whole world at one point so that their white wigged elite can have another ball party. How did the Frensh excercise democracy in their occupations??? They were one of the worst occupation for Egypt. So much for the culture that you rave about. Napolean idea of breaking Egypt pride has resulted in him aiming a cannon at the sphinx to break it's nose....His culture has destroyed 5000 years of architectural marvels.....His ugly language has erased many beautifull native dialects that were used all along North Africa....
Democracy was developed in the U.S., right? Not in France.



What culture are you talking about?
I was referring to the cultural practice of using senators to represent the people.

Strive in the cause of God? What is God's cause? Surely not wordly victories, more likely personal spiritual ones.

And yes, Flores, we are made in his image, so he must have a butt... but no navel.

thank you for your post. i would just like to clear something up. in the Bible God is described as haveing the image of male human beings but in the Quran God's attributes resemeble nothing whatsoever of man or any creation. his attributes can not even be imaganed as thoughts are created. if in the Quran it says something such as Allah's hand or thoughst etc. that does not mean a hand or thoughts in our terms or in our understanding or imagination

What is wrong with the Muslim Empire? at the time Muslims made great advances in Science, it made great libraires for people, gave all people rights (men,women,children,animal). it made many new concpets and ideads that the rest of the world implemented hundreds of years later.

it did not oppress people, or make them surrender to Islam. at these time this was true Islamic ruling not these of today in Muslim lands.

Also you dont have to go back as far as this Arab empire, the last Muslim empire broke up just before world war 1 and the Muslim lands were divided mainly in this century (1900 onwards). the state of Islamic countires is bad nowadays but not to long ago are empire was prosperous. Are empire fell after hundreds of years of plotting by are enemies. all empires MUST fall, it is just logic in the past empires lasted hundreds and hundreds of years and now each reign is much shorter. these Western superpowers (doesn't really come under the classification "empire") will enivitably fall, it is only logic.

Try not to complicate things. Just choose between these two...

1. Would you rather live in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, & Somalia?

or

2. Would you rather live in Europe, America, Japan, Hongkong, Australia & India?

Countless muslims are choosing #2. What would you choose? If you choose the same then you better thank Charles Martel too, eh?

you can use these examples now but in the Muslim empire time, all the people wanted to go to the Muslim lands just as now people from the east want to go to the west for a better life.

you can use these example now but that is only becasue the Muslim lands were dived this century after hundred of years of plotting by are enemies. at a 2 times in history (and for significant lengths of time) the Muslim countire were the best just at as the roman empire, greek, muggle was.

it is envittable that Muslim countiures will once again gain this power.

Well, that's an improvement on Christianity. But, if God cannot be imagined, why aren't the religions that arose from God equally vague? In fact, Islam is not vague, it imagines that God wants certain, specific things, how in the world can this be?

[QUOTE=munim_786]i would just like to clear something up. in the Bible God is described as haveing the image of male human beings but in the Quran God's attributes resemeble nothing whatsoever of man or any creation. his attributes can not even be imaganed as thoughts are created. if in the Quran it says something such as Allah's hand or thoughst etc. that does not mean a hand or thoughts in our terms or in our understanding or imagination
*************
M*W: That's because the Qur'an is right and the Bible is wrong. Furthermore, Jews and Christians believe in the LITERAL translation of the OT and NT. I am a recovering Catholic (LOL), so I now believe in the philosophy of a humanist and a spiritualist (but not the occult kind). The Qur'an speaks the truth about Jesus. The NT is nothing but lies, and can you believe that 25% of the world still believes these lies? Well, thanks to Allah for the other 75%!

I believe that "God" is a powerful force of pure energy that got the evolutionary process started and is still with us today. That energy never dies, it only evolves. It may seem that this force of energy has omniscient eyes, omnipresent hands, and omnipotent powers, but they are found in the human race. That's why this energy created us! The human race is God's eyes, God's hands, and God's power. God lives through humanity, and we are always in the process of being created.

I wasnt referring to a literal "butt". What the title means is that a plain human being defeated what muslims believe to be "Allah". Thus making him a false and non-existent god. How was allah defeated? When Martel defeated the muslim armies. Muslims who gave their lives & money to purchase their salvation and the guaranteed support & victory from Allah. Martels consistent victories ensured that the promises of Allah was broken. Thus breaking the virtuality of Allah. And so there is no Allah but in the figment of the imagination.

*************
M*W: No, I don't think so. I'm not Muslim, but I believe the Qur'an is right and the Bible is wrong as well as counterfeited.

*************
M*W: No, I don't think so. I'm not Muslim, but I believe the Qur'an is right and the Bible is wrong as well as counterfeited.

Doesnt my evidence above prove that the Quran too is a counterfeit? And do remember my 7 Reasons for REJECTING ISLAM.

Let us just live an honest, productive & compassionate lives. If there is an openminded god out there lets hope he is good enough to credit our good work. :)

i would like to comment on the title pf this thread

"mortal hero kicked Allah's Butt"

did he now?

this hero killed mere mortals and stopped the Islamic Empire and thats all. what did he do to God? did he lay a finger on God, knock him of his throne? did this guy all of a sudden rule the universe? did the universe collapse becasue God had his butt kicked?
in the end the benifit of believing in God is for us. Allah is not dependat at all on people following him. it would not harm him if everybody one the planet swore at him if they made armies against him like this french guy did. after all what would it do? first off you cant even see or touch Allah, it is even immpossible to imagine him so how did they defeat him? and Allah isn't reliant on his followers as is the (attribute to the) Christian God;

"and it repented the Lord that he made men on earth, and it grieved him from his heart" (GENESIS. 6:6)

Well then why don’t you propose a gray zone between the 2 choices I gave you eh? Well, you wrote, "Just choose between these two..."

Which is essentially a choice between one brand of dishonesty or the other.

Countless people of various faiths have chosen number two, and it hasn't brought them the peace they hope for and think they deserve.

We are the human species. That's where I'd rather live. Planet Earth or wherever our adventures take us. But given a choice between two dishonest identity politics, I'll choose to forge my own, wherever I am. That I'm in the United States is a matter of good fortune for someone like me, but it's no reason to say "Good enough" and roll over for the prickly pear.

And that gray zone is only as small as the human endeavor itself.

[QUOTE=munim_786]What is wrong with the Muslim Empire? at the time Muslims made great advances in Science, it made great libraires for people, gave all people rights (men,women,children,animal). it made many new concpets and ideads that the rest of the world implemented hundreds of years later.

it did not oppress people, or make them surrender to Islam. at these time this was true Islamic ruling not these of today in Muslim lands.

Also you dont have to go back as far as this Arab empire, the last Muslim empire broke up just before world war 1 and the Muslim lands were divided mainly in this century (1900 onwards). the state of Islamic countires is bad nowadays but not to long ago are empire was prosperous. Are empire fell after hundreds of years of plotting by are enemies. all empires MUST fall, it is just logic in the past empires lasted hundreds and hundreds of years and now each reign is much shorter. these Western superpowers (doesn't really come under the classification "empire") will enivitably fall, it is only logic.
*************
M*W: No, one needs to go back as far as the Arab Empire, but one does need to go back to the years of plotting by their enemies. They need to know and understand their fall, and they need to know and understand their strengths.

61:10-13
i would like to comment on the title pf this thread

"mortal hero kicked Allah's Butt"

did he now?

this hero killed mere mortals and stopped the Islamic Empire and thats all. what did he do to God? did he lay a finger on God, knock him of his throne? did this guy all of a sudden rule the universe? did the universe collapse becasue God had his butt kicked?

First of all was mohammad's Allah the true God? You can only hope so. No Allah is not God. Because this myth's promise in verse 61:10-13 had been broken. This myth called "Allah" was supposed to provide support and guarantee victory to muslims who gave their lives and money to his "cause". Suffering defeat after defeat ensure that there is no allah. A plain human being kick the shit out of your mythical Allah's virtual butt.

ISLAM IS A LIE.

Is there even a point to this thread except for hurling insults at a religion many people hold dear? Is there even a point to DoctorNO's existence in these forums except for hurling insults?

I thought not.

-- Long live the Female Messiah!