Anti-Palestinian propaganda deleted

Oh, don't forget that 69% of "ordinary" palestinian Arab Muslims support the genocide too.
According to which poll?

(source (http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_292.shtml))

"It is fair for Israel to push for Hamas to change their charter. But one makes peace with enemies, not with friends or even “partners.” It was not the military leaders of Hamas that got elected, but those from its political wing. The same controversy was raised a decade ago in Northern Ireland, and everyone eventually realized that the only way to move forward was to involve Sinn Fein, the Irish Republican Army’s political wing. That same pragmatic view is needed now.

It is wrong and counter-productive for Hamas to refuse to negotiate with Israel and it is wrong and counter-productive for Israel to refuse to negotiate with the legitimately elected leadership of the Palestinians."

It should be remembered that many of the early Israelli leaders had ties to terrorist activities but that was not used as a reason to halt economic aid to Israel.
It reeks of a double standard.
I abhor the stench of hypocrisy.

It should be remembered that many of the early Israelli leaders had ties to terrorist activities but that was not used as a reason to halt economic aid to Israel.
It reeks of a double standard.
I abhor the stench of hypocrisy.

At their hight, the jewish terrorist organizations were a minority of a minority, shunned by most of the jews in palestine. On the other hand, you have the palestinien leadership, which is a terrorist organization.

Now... can you tell the difference? if not, then you might find the concept of "hypocracy" closer to home than you might find comfortable. ;)

A number of the first leaders of Israel had terroist ties. Sharon has been linked to terrorist type acts. So it is hypocrisy to not give Hamas a chance at making the situation better.

At their hight, the jewish terrorist organizations were a minority of a minority, shunned by most of the jews in palestine. On the other hand, you have the palestinien leadership, which is a terrorist organization.

Now... can you tell the difference? if not, then you might find the concept of "hypocracy" closer to home than you might find comfortable. ;)
"the palestinien leadership, which is a terrorist organization" in the eyes of the american government. there is a difference between the palestinian leadership and the palestinians who use violence. it is true that the leaders of israel, especially in the 70's, took courses of action that caused palestinian assasinations and killings, sometimes with collateral damage. it is also true that many jews, once they found out, disagreed with these actions, but there were more who supported them. i can guarentee you that the only reason you think the political group hamas is a terrrorist organization is because so much western and israeli propaganda has said so. these people will do anything to get you to support them so they can have their way, try looking for the facts a little harder.

"the palestinien leadership, which is a terrorist organization" in the eyes of the american government.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas :

"[Hamas] is widely considered to be a terrorist organization, is listed as such by Australia, Canada, the European Union, Israel, and the United States, and is banned in Jordan."

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas :

"[Hamas] is widely considered to be a terrorist organization, is listed as such by Australia, Canada, the European Union, Israel, and the United States, and is banned in Jordan."
that still doesn't convince me that hamas is a terrorist organisation. they might have ties to groups that do commit terrorist acts, but the political group hamas is for an islamic state that caters to its own people. it is not about killing jews or taking israeli land. western nations list them as a terrorist organization because of their own skewed agenda, not because of the actions of the actual group.

there are at least two different distinct groups by the name of hamas, with loose ties to each other. they are both for islamic fundamentalism and an islamic state. but one is doing this through politics, while the other is doing this through active, many times violent, actions.

"the palestinien leadership, which is a terrorist organization" in the eyes of the american government. there is a difference between the palestinian leadership and the palestinians who use violence. it is true that the leaders of israel, especially in the 70's, took courses of action that caused palestinian assasinations and killings, sometimes with collateral damage. it is also true that many jews, once they found out, disagreed with these actions, but there were more who supported them. i can guarentee you that the only reason you think the political group hamas is a terrrorist organization is because so much western and israeli propaganda has said so. these people will do anything to get you to support them so they can have their way, try looking for the facts a little harder.

If it welcomes the targetting of innocent civilians, and has a record of blowing hundreds of them up, then they are terrorists.

If it welcomes the targetting of innocent civilians, and has a record of blowing hundreds of them up, then they are terrorists.
Axes, the IDF has killed far more innocent cvilians then all the so called paletsinian terrorists put together, i believe it is in a ratio of 3:1. Do you want me to get a source for that

Yes as long as it dosn't come from Palistian conspearcy, news or historical sources.

Axes, the IDF has killed far more innocent cvilians then all the so called paletsinian terrorists put together, i believe it is in a ratio of 3:1. Do you want me to get a source for that

3:1 kill ratio is not 3:1 civilian kill ratio. The number of civilians/militants killed stands at 40/60. So you have 1350 dead palestinian civilians in 5 years.
Now you retract 400 dead civilians by palestinian hands, you have some 1100 dead civilians.

But back to the topic, IDF does not target civilians, far from it. Basic orders are to build up operational plans that minimize civilian casualties. the IDF, on most cases, is much more carefull than the US, for example in Iraq, when planning its operations. The US has never had any qualms about using artillary in dense civilian areas, and therefore only in Fallujah more civilians died than in the Whole palestinian intefadah. hence the IDF cannot be considered a terrorist network.

Here is the source, it is actually worse then i thought
http://www.mepc.org/resources/mrates.asp
And Axes, just because the US is extremely trigger happy does not justify the IDF's actions.

Anyway how do you justify the the destruction of jenin and other palestinian towns by the IDF. IF the IDF are so morally superior why did they order a media block out when they doing "what they had to do"

We must all undertsand that power corrupts these fuckwit leaders, i am definite your average guy on the street in any country is peaceful, its just all the shit which is assimiulated down stream which causes the problem. this goes for political, military and so called religious leaders too.

Here is the source, it is actually worse then i thought
http://www.mepc.org/resources/mrates.asp
And Axes, just because the US is extremely trigger happy does not justify the IDF's actions.

Anyway how do you justify the the destruction of jenin and other palestinian towns by the IDF. IF the IDF are so morally superior why did they order a media block out when they doing "what they had to do"

We must all undertsand that power corrupts these fuckwit leaders, i am definite your average guy on the street in any country is peaceful, its just all the shit which is assimiulated down stream which causes the problem. this goes for political, military and so called religious leaders too.

First of all, I dont justify all the IDF's actions, and in any war, civilians do get hurt. But in the case of the IDF, they are mostly collateral.

Now, Jenin is a great example: the IDF refused to use artillary or air support while entering the city so as to prevent civilian deaths. As a cause of it, the IDF's unsupported troops suffered 23-25 deaths.

After the PA claiming it was a massacre of hundreds, the final death toll of palestinians was 56, with roughly half being militants. Compare this with fallujah where thousands were killed?

On your second note, the IDF does, on rare occasions limit the access of the media WHILE IN OPERATION in the last couple of years due to the fact that newsreporters got killed in previouse ones. There was no desire to receive more heat at that time. On the other hand, Russia and the US allmost NEVER let the media in while in operation against militants, whils Zahal mostly does. Go figure.

First of all, I dont justify all the IDF's actions, and in any war, civilians do get hurt. But in the case of the IDF, they are mostly collateral.

Now, Jenin is a great example: the IDF refused to use artillary or air support while entering the city so as to prevent civilian deaths. As a cause of it, the IDF's unsupported troops suffered 23-25 deaths.

After the PA claiming it was a massacre of hundreds, the final death toll of palestinians was 56, with roughly half being militants. Compare this with fallujah where thousands were killed?

On your second note, the IDF does, on rare occasions limit the access of the media WHILE IN OPERATION in the last couple of years due to the fact that newsreporters got killed in previouse ones. There was no desire to receive more heat at that time. On the other hand, Russia and the US allmost NEVER let the media in while in operation against militants, whils Zahal mostly does. Go figure.

they did not just limit it Axes, they barred them completely. The US and Russians, are another story, and their actions are nothing to be proud of either.

I dont beleive for one second that the IDF give a shit about news=reporters espicially foreign ones, what about that british jiournist killed in GAZA, forgotten the name. It is the news reporters job to report and they know the risks associated. IMHO the IDF had something to hide, but of-course we will never know now.

The IDFs unsupport troops, dont make me laugh, what happened to the tanks and the bukldozers etc.. Perhaps artilery wasnot tactically useful for this campaign. And i do recal the use of helicopter Gunships, but i will have to check this out as i cant remember for sure

oh and wheres your source for the death toll

they did not just limit it Axes, they barred them completely. The US and Russians, are another story, and their actions are nothing to be proud of either.

They did limit it, since once operations ended, reporters were let in, to see bodies, rubble and all.

I dont beleive for one second that the IDF give a shit about news=reporters espicially foreign ones, what about that british jiournist killed in GAZA, forgotten the name. It is the news reporters job to report and they know the risks associated. IMHO the IDF had something to hide, but of-course we will never know now.

When a news reporter approaches a soldier in the middle of a firefight, with a black machine over his head and is shot, what do you expect? This is why armies tend to limit reporter presence when in operations. And ofcourse the IDF cares. Occurances like these irreparabely taint its reputation.

The IDFs unsupport troops, dont make me laugh, what happened to the tanks and the bukldozers etc.. Perhaps artilery wasnot tactically useful for this campaign. And i do recal the use of helicopter Gunships, but i will have to check this out as i cant remember for sure

Support equales air/artillary. Tanks were rarely used since it was not practical. Bulldozers were used to take out buildings where militants tried to make a stand. If the military wanted, couldnt it just flatten jenin with artillary, like the US did in fallujah? think for a moment. the military went for the insurgents house by house, risking the lives of its soldiers for the specific purpose of preventing a massacre.

oh and wheres your source for the death toll

Check the UN record, or if you want confirmation, ask even Brian foley. In case you are not satisfied, simply google it, or check the numerouse news sites.

I would like to add that the specific reason the militants hid inside civilian buildings was in order to hamper IDF activities. Unlike you, they are fully aware that Zahal would not resort to the use of indiscriminate bombings.

Humm Axes your apprasal of the situation is quite the opposite to that of myself and the Independent UK.
Amid the ruins of Jenin, the grisly evidence of a war crime

A monstrous war crime that Israel has tried to cover up for a fortnight has finally been exposed. Its troops have caused devastation in the center of the Jenin refugee camp, reached yesterday by The Independent, where thousands of people are still living amid the ruins. A residential area roughly 160,000 square yards about a third of a mile wide has been reduced to dust. Rubble has been shoveled by bulldozers into 30ft piles. The sweet and ghastly reek of rotting human bodies is everywhere, evidence that it is a human tomb. The people, who spent days hiding in basements crowded into single rooms as the rockets pounded in, say there are hundreds of corpses, entombed beneath the dust, under a field of debris, criss-crossed with tank and bulldozer treadmarks.

In one nearby half-wrecked building, gutted by fire, lies the fly-blown corpse of a man covered by a tartan rug. In another we found the remains of 23-year-old Ashraf Abu Hejar beneath the ruins of a fire-blackened room that collapsed on him after being hit by a rocket. His head is shrunken and blackened. In a third, five long-dead men lay under blankets. A quiet, sad-looking young man called Kamal Anis led us across the wasteland, littered now with detritus of what were once households -- foam rubber, torn clothes, shoes, tin cans, children's toys. He suddenly stopped. This was a mass grave, he said, pointing. We stared at a mound of debris. Here, he said, he saw the Israeli soldiers pile 30 bodies beneath a half-wrecked house. When the pile was complete, they bulldozed the building, bringing its ruins down on the corpses. Then they flattened the area with a tank. We could not see the bodies. But we could smell them.

A few days ago, we might not have believed Kamal Anis. But the descriptions given by the many other refugees who escaped from Jenin camp were understated, not, as many feared and Israel encouraged us to believe, exaggerations. Their stories had not prepared me for what I saw yesterday. I believe them now.

Until two weeks ago, there were several hundred tightly-packed homes in this neighborhood called Hanat al-Hawashim. They no longer exist. Around the central ruins, there are many hundreds of half-wrecked homes. Much of the camp - once home to thousands of Palestinian refugees from the 1948 war - is falling down. Every wall is speckled and torn with bullet holes and shrapnel, testimony of the awesome, random firepower of Cobra and Apache helicopters that hovered over the camp.

Building after building has been torn apart, their contents of cheap fake furnishings, mattresses, white plastic chairs spewed out into the road. Every other building bears the giant, charred, impact mark of a helicopter missile. Last night there were still many families and weeping children still living amid the ruins, cut off from the humanitarian aid. Ominously, we found no wounded, although there was a report of a man being rescued from beneath ruins only an hour before we arrived.

Those who did not flee the camp, or not detained by the army, have spent the bombardment in basements, enduring day after day of terror. Some were forced into rooms by the soldiers, who smashed their way into houses through the walls. The UN says half of the camp's residents were under 18. As the evening hush fell over these killing fields, we could suddenly hear the children chattering. The mosques, once so noisy at prayer time, were silent. Israel was still trying to conceal these scenes yesterday. It had refused entry to Red Cross ambulances for nearly a week, in violation of the Geneva Convention. Yesterday it continued to try to keep us out. Jenin, in the northern end of the occupied West Bank, remained "a closed military zone", was ringed with Merkava tanks, army Jeep patrols, and armored personnel carriers. Reporters caught trying to get in were escorted out. A day earlier the Israeli armed forces took in a few selected journalists to see sanitized parts of the camp. We simply walked across the fields, flitted through an olive orchard overlooked by two Israeli tanks, and into the camp itself.

We were led in by hands gesturing at windows. Hidden, whispering people directed us through narrow alleys they thought were clear. When there were soldiers about, a finger would raise in warning, or a hand waved us back. We were welcomed by people desperate to tell what had occurred. They spoke of executions, and bulldozers wrecking homes with people inside. "This is mass murder committed by Ariel Sharon," Jamel Saleh, 43, said. "We feel more hate for Israel now than ever. Look at this boy." He placed his hand on the tousled head of a little boy, Mohammed, the eight-year-old son of a friend. "He saw all this evil. He will remember it all." So will everyone else who saw the horror of Jenin refugee camp. Palestinians who entered the camp yesterday were almost speechless.

Rajib Ahmed, from the Palestinian Energy Authority, came to try to repair the power lines. He was trembling with fury and shock. "This is mass murder. I have come here to help but I have found nothing but devastation. Just look for yourself." All had the same message: tell the world.

Source: The Independent (U.K.) April 16, 2002

Hummm what about this

UN Commission on Human Rights Condemns Israeli Mass Killings in Palestine

On April 15, the United Nations human rights commission condemned "mass killings" of Palestinians and demanded the end of "acts of mass killings perpetrated by the Israeli occupying authorities." The Geneva-based Commission on Human Rights ruled that the Israelis were guilty of "gross violations" of humanitarian law and the commission upheld the "legitimate right of Palestinian people to resist." The Commission on Human Rights expressed grave concern at "the killing of men, women and children" in West Bank refugee camps, among them Jenin, where Israeli troops of massacred Palestinian women and children.

"A United Nations vehicle with supplies of flour and sugar had been denied access to the (Jenin) camp, as well as the Red Cross. 'For over a week now,' one senior UN official said, 'the Red Cross and the UN have made strenuous efforts to receive permission to enter the camp. Especially for the Red Cross, this is an unheard-of situation for a government to refuse access in this way. The only assumption that we are making, regrettably, is that someone had something abominable to hide.' An Israeli soldier told a journalist that the Red Cross had been granted access to the camp but had refused. The UN official responded: 'This is a blatant lie." Source: "The Times" (London), April 15.

A monstrous war crime that Israel has tried to cover up for a fortnight has finally been exposed. Its troops have caused devastation in the center of the Jenin refugee camp, reached yesterday by The Independent, where thousands of people are still living amid the ruins. A residential area roughly 160,000 square yards about a third of a mile wide has been reduced to dust. Rubble has been shoveled by bulldozers into 30ft piles. The sweet and ghastly reek of rotting human bodies is everywhere, evidence that it is a human tomb. The people, who spent days hiding in basements crowded into single rooms as the rockets pounded in, say there are hundreds of corpses, entombed beneath the dust, under a field of debris, criss-crossed with tank and bulldozer treadmarks.

In one nearby half-wrecked building, gutted by fire, lies the fly-blown corpse of a man covered by a tartan rug. In another we found the remains of 23-year-old Ashraf Abu Hejar beneath the ruins of a fire-blackened room that collapsed on him after being hit by a rocket. His head is shrunken and blackened. In a third, five long-dead men lay under blankets. A quiet, sad-looking young man called Kamal Anis led us across the wasteland, littered now with detritus of what were once households -- foam rubber, torn clothes, shoes, tin cans, children's toys. He suddenly stopped. This was a mass grave, he said, pointing. We stared at a mound of debris. Here, he said, he saw the Israeli soldiers pile 30 bodies beneath a half-wrecked house. When the pile was complete, they bulldozed the building, bringing its ruins down on the corpses. Then they flattened the area with a tank. We could not see the bodies. But we could smell them.

A few days ago, we might not have believed Kamal Anis. But the descriptions given by the many other refugees who escaped from Jenin camp were understated, not, as many feared and Israel encouraged us to believe, exaggerations. Their stories had not prepared me for what I saw yesterday. I believe them now.

Until two weeks ago, there were several hundred tightly-packed homes in this neighborhood called Hanat al-Hawashim. They no longer exist. Around the central ruins, there are many hundreds of half-wrecked homes. Much of the camp - once home to thousands of Palestinian refugees from the 1948 war - is falling down. Every wall is speckled and torn with bullet holes and shrapnel, testimony of the awesome, random firepower of Cobra and Apache helicopters that hovered over the camp.

Building after building has been torn apart, their contents of cheap fake furnishings, mattresses, white plastic chairs spewed out into the road. Every other building bears the giant, charred, impact mark of a helicopter missile. Last night there were still many families and weeping children still living amid the ruins, cut off from the humanitarian aid. Ominously, we found no wounded, although there was a report of a man being rescued from beneath ruins only an hour before we arrived.

Those who did not flee the camp, or not detained by the army, have spent the bombardment in basements, enduring day after day of terror. Some were forced into rooms by the soldiers, who smashed their way into houses through the walls. The UN says half of the camp's residents were under 18. As the evening hush fell over these killing fields, we could suddenly hear the children chattering. The mosques, once so noisy at prayer time, were silent. Israel was still trying to conceal these scenes yesterday. It had refused entry to Red Cross ambulances for nearly a week, in violation of the Geneva Convention. Yesterday it continued to try to keep us out. Jenin, in the northern end of the occupied West Bank, remained "a closed military zone", was ringed with Merkava tanks, army Jeep patrols, and armored personnel carriers. Reporters caught trying to get in were escorted out. A day earlier the Israeli armed forces took in a few selected journalists to see sanitized parts of the camp. We simply walked across the fields, flitted through an olive orchard overlooked by two Israeli tanks, and into the camp itself.

We were led in by hands gesturing at windows. Hidden, whispering people directed us through narrow alleys they thought were clear. When there were soldiers about, a finger would raise in warning, or a hand waved us back. We were welcomed by people desperate to tell what had occurred. They spoke of executions, and bulldozers wrecking homes with people inside. "This is mass murder committed by Ariel Sharon," Jamel Saleh, 43, said. "We feel more hate for Israel now than ever. Look at this boy." He placed his hand on the tousled head of a little boy, Mohammed, the eight-year-old son of a friend. "He saw all this evil. He will remember it all." So will everyone else who saw the horror of Jenin refugee camp. Palestinians who entered the camp yesterday were almost speechless.

Rajib Ahmed, from the Palestinian Energy Authority, came to try to repair the power lines. He was trembling with fury and shock. "This is mass murder. I have come here to help but I have found nothing but devastation. Just look for yourself." All had the same message: tell the world.

Source: The Independent (U.K.) April 16, 2002[/QUOTE]

As usual, the neo-liberal media loves to romantisize incidents, talking about the smoke in the air, the crying children, and the bodies (weather they be militant or civilian). Apart from grizzly pictures of a battlezone, how is that proof that there was a massacre there? This does not look like a scientific jeurnal but one trying to form an opinion from simple pictures without looking at the background of what happened.

Newsflash: Every battlezone is ugly. You need to dig deep to find out what actually went on there, but comparitively, 56-57 killed, out of them half were militants, is a joke. Ofcourse there would be rubble, the houses where the IDF were shot at were completley demolished. The facts are that in allmost all cases, the soldiers made sure civilians evacuated the buildings before doing so.

There are specific orders to not shoot civilians no matter what.
IDF doctrine for the simple soldier goes like this;

You see an unidentified person coming to your outpost, he looks suspiciouse.

- You shout: halt, identify yourself.
- Then you shout it again
- if he does not comply, you shoud in arabic "Waqf wal ana batuhak" (stop or I shoot"
- In case he does not stop, you shoot once in the air.
- In case he continues, you shoot at the legs or arms.

The only case the orders let you fire at main body mass is incase there is imminant danger of your death. (he pulls out a knife, tries to run you down with a car, or shoots in your direction).

These do not look to me like orders condoning massacres, and if the Biased media like the "guardian" (left wing version of fox news) tells you otherwise, then take it with a grain of salt and read newspapers writing about both sides of the story.

Sadly, its really hard these days to find unbiased media about the issue, for both sides. I once came upon a palestinian/Israeli site which posts sources for unbiased media acceptable for both sides. Ill try to find it for you later on if you want.

Hummm what about this

UN Commission on Human Rights Condemns Israeli Mass Killings in Palestine

On April 15, the United Nations human rights commission condemned "mass killings" of Palestinians and demanded the end of "acts of mass killings perpetrated by the Israeli occupying authorities." The Geneva-based Commission on Human Rights ruled that the Israelis were guilty of "gross violations" of humanitarian law and the commission upheld the "legitimate right of Palestinian people to resist." The Commission on Human Rights expressed grave concern at "the killing of men, women and children" in West Bank refugee camps, among them Jenin, where Israeli troops of massacred Palestinian women and children.

"A United Nations vehicle with supplies of flour and sugar had been denied access to the (Jenin) camp, as well as the Red Cross. 'For over a week now,' one senior UN official said, 'the Red Cross and the UN have made strenuous efforts to receive permission to enter the camp. Especially for the Red Cross, this is an unheard-of situation for a government to refuse access in this way. The only assumption that we are making, regrettably, is that someone had something abominable to hide.' An Israeli soldier told a journalist that the Red Cross had been granted access to the camp but had refused. The UN official responded: 'This is a blatant lie." Source: "The Times" (London), April 15.

Try reading about the final findings of the commision, and not preliminary reports a short time after the battle. It concluded there was no massacre.

[B]

Sadly, its really hard these days to find unbiased media about the issue, for both sides. I once came upon a palestinian/Israeli site which posts sources for unbiased media acceptable for both sides. Ill try to find it for you later on if you want.
yes please find this site...

this would be very useful

yes please find this site...

this would be very useful

Havent found it yet, but for the time being:

Pro-Israeli-
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/index.html
http://www.terror-lawsuit.com/
http://www.zionismontheweb.org/zionism_history.htm
http://www.gov.il/firstgov/english
http://www.jpost.com/
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/
http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict.asp
http://www.israel-wat.com/parent_eng.htm
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/iltoc.html
https://israel.indymedia.org/
http://www.palestinefacts.org

Pro-Palestinian-
http://www.palestinehistory.com/
http://www.stopthewall.org/
http://www.palestineremembered.com
http://www.ipc.gov.ps/index.asp
http://english.aljazeera.net/
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/nueva_web/
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en
http://www.monabaker.com/conflictfacts.htm
http://www.monabaker.com/quotes.htm
http://www.palestine-net.com/
http://www.israelshamir.net/
http://electronicintifada.net/new.shtml
http://www.cactus48.com/
http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=mideast&c=isrlpa


On the fence/In the Middle-
http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/
http://www.ict.org.il/
http://www.afsc.org/israel-palestine/activism/default.htm
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html

Neutral-
http://www.mideastweb.org/nutshell.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/middle_east/2001/israel_and_the_pa lestinians/default.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab-Israeli_conflict
CIA World Factbook - Israel
CIA World Factbook - Gaza Strip
CIA World Factbook - West Bank
http://www.israelipalestinianprocon.org/

Neutral-
http://www.mideastweb.org/nutshell.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth...rael_and_the_pa lestinians/default.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab-Israeli_conflict

I've noticed that Wikipedia tends to be slanted in favour of the Zionists. Just a personal observation.

Thank you Axes

Those links look familiar (http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51341). Good resource though.

I've noticed that Wikipedia tends to be slanted in favour of the Zionists. Just a personal observation.
Anyone can edit it...

Axes , many pro palestinians are actually.. Israeli Jews.
Not one activist for Israeli victims is an Arab group!
The moral gap is immense!
BTW
These 2 are hardly pro Israel, they're objective.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/index.html
http://www.jpost.com/
This is pro Israel:
http://masada2000.org

Axes , many pro palestinians are actually.. Israeli Jews.
Not one activist for Israeli victims is an Arab group!
The moral gap is immense!

The moral gap is immense? Nothing to do with morals. It just shows how wrong the Israeli side is in their conflict. Let's hope more Israeli's disagree with what they're doing to the Palestinians.

But I know whatcha mean. Darn moral gaps. Too bad there weren't more people that were for the Holocaust than were against it. I mean, hey, it's gotta be even. It's not like the majority being against something means there's a morality problem showing how bad the other side is for not evening it all out. :rolleyes:

Bad try on the spin.

- N