Seems he was a lot of things; war lord, lawgiver, etc.
He definitely had a major impact on world history for over 1380 years; in religion, law, language, art, politics, etc...

Jerry Falwell:

"I think Mohammed was a terrorist. I read enough by both Muslims and non-Muslims, [to decide] that he was a violent man, a man of war," Falwell tells CBS. "In my opinion, Jesus set the example for love, as did Moses, and I think Mohammed set an opposite example."

A violent man, a man of war does not a terrorist make.

Originally posted by postoak
Jerry Falwell:



A violent man, a man of war does not a terrorist make.

Are you refering to G bush? :D

By the way aren't u the same person who Lied about pakistanis dancing on the street after 9/11?.:D

Skywalker: there were videotapes shown on CNN of Pakistanis and then Palestinians dancing the the streets and the rooftops. However these were not because of 11/9, although the networks said that (and later apologised for it, but ever-so-quietly), but rather some other event (like a holiday or whatever).

Just wanted to address a couple of issues here:

If I said I saw Pakistanis celebrating after the 9/11 attack and this was mistaken, then I apologize. To tell the truth, after this lapse of time I am not sure what I saw, when.

In my original post I was using semi-archaic English. Perhaps because of that, skywalker, you misunderstood that I was defending Mohammed from the charge of being a terrorist.

To tell the truth, I don't think that Falwell would strongly defend his statement that Mohammed was a terrorist, based on the news report. Falwell seems to be one of these people who uses words more to express emotion than meaning. For him, terrorist=bad person, Mohammed=bad person, therefore Mohammed=terrorist.

skywalker -- from your posts, I suspect that you are either a Muslim, live in an Islamic country, or both. If so, what is your opinion of the way most Muslims view Al Queda? Do they support the attacks or not? Didn't the recent elections in Pakistan result in the election of a party that favors Al Queda?

I think that only a terrorist would come up with the idea of Jihad.

Originally posted by CounslerCoffee
I think that only a terrorist would come up with the idea of Jihad.

Jihad was concieved by Mohammad as a. peaceful resistance when not attacked first or b. bloody massacre when you are attacked first

This time, Muslims have been attacked first. Don't you see it? Israel, Kashmir, both were Muslim lands snatched away. Then there's civilians dying in Afghanistan because American soldiers aren't careful.

This is their reason for jihad. If none of this happened, nobody would support fanatics like Usama!

GB,

So Im just guessing that all those people in the trade towers who died were the ones who dropped the bombs on afghanistan? Its one thing to attack a military target, its another to attack civillians just for the sake of attacking them.

And before you go and say "The USA attacks civillians to!" I will let you know that I dont like the fact that the US government has done that. Im all for peace.

-Coffee

Originally posted by CounslerCoffee
GB,

So Im just guessing that all those people in the trade towers who died were the ones who dropped the bombs on afghanistan? Its one thing to attack a military target, its another to attack civillians just for the sake of attacking them.

And before you go and say "The USA attacks civillians to!" I will let you know that I dont like the fact that the US government has done that. Im all for peace.

-Coffee

Generally most civilian deaths in Afghanistan were not because civilians were near military targets, but rather because somebody a. hates Muslims because their minister told them they worship a false God so it's OK to kill them b. saw something moving so it was OBVIOUSLY terrorists c. "accidentally" fired even though things like that happened too often for it to really be an accident.

If civilians are in/near military targets, that's their fault.

And do I care if you like it? Neither do I! Duh!

I'm for peace and the breakup of the US into 5 nations to get rid of the superpower monopoly. (sort of like they did with AT&T and were gonna do with MS)

I agree GB!:D We need peace. Over throw the monopoly that is America.

yay!!! good idea. but somehow I doubt it will happen without a war! If I were you I'd move to some place that won't be effected.

Hint: avoid Middle East, Europe, Canada (maybe?)

You will be at risk of attack in Europe or the US, probably the Middle East as well. Not by the locals but rather the enemy.

This will be a very dirty war, people will kill mostly civilians and hardly any military casualities will occur.

It is possible that this will in fact wipe out the human race but somehow I think we'll pull through.

Oh, and afterwards, people will hate Bush like most people today hate Hitler.

Oh, and afterwards, people will hate Bush like most people today hate Hitler.

Of course! I wonder if it would of been any different with Al Gore running things. Would 9-11 ever of even happend?!

I would of always thought that austrailia was a safe place to stay, or greenland, or iceland or some place like that.

Originally posted by CounslerCoffee
Oh, and afterwards, people will hate Bush like most people today hate Hitler.

Of course! I wonder if it would of been any different with Al Gore running things. Would 9-11 ever of even happend?!

I would of always thought that austrailia was a safe place to stay, or greenland, or iceland or some place like that.

Australia=no
Iceland=no
Greenland=probably

Originally posted by postoak
Just wanted to address a couple of issues here:

If I said I saw Pakistanis celebrating after the 9/11 attack and this was mistaken, then I apologize. To tell the truth, after this lapse of time I am not sure what I saw, when.


skywalker -- from your posts, I suspect that you are either a Muslim, live in an Islamic country, or both. If so, what is your opinion of the way most Muslims view Al Queda? Do they support the attacks or not? Didn't the recent elections in Pakistan result in the election of a party that favors Al Queda?



Well good to hear from you. :) . Most muslim's views about Al qda is same as westerners. Except some parts of arab world, they do have obvious reasons. Killing innocent is not acceptable in any form or type. Either it is muslims or non. It is all media bullshit, they try to only show or try to interview only few who have negetive views about west or usa. I assure you that pretty much every men from arab to south east asia is dying to go either usa or europe. They don't hate west, but they are portray as one, again thanks to mass media bias. But usa is not doing any thing to defuse this gap or problem instead they are igniting it as much as possible, recent expample is no official explanation of Falwell's remarks no one said a word from the goverment, after all they are goverment sponser churchs and religious leaders, pat robertso, falwell and few more. Just to give you another example, In a secondry school in texas this teacher is teaching children that ": muslims are people who fight in one country and then once done they move on to the next country and take over them but america fights only for her self and are the good guys" now what is it doing ??? seeding hate and negetive info in children's mind. It is not helping any one.


For Pakistan, MMA won the normal seats that they always do. Again every where i read it says they are religious fanatics and they won big time. That is bullshit. They have always won in those proviences and they were always there. They are nothing new. Only difference is that this time all of them combined and made a one political party rather then spliting into 10 parties. NO difference but this IslamoPhobia is taking over west. MMA is not even in goverment, they may become part of Coaliation goverment but not in power. How come no one mention about the Pro Musharraf party?? Since they won more then 70 seats? They will be making goverment? How come no one read abou tthenm? since the same bullshit media didn't want to cover that part since they are liberals, so they don't deserve any attention but they covered the MMA. What a fucked up coverage. That just shows that how media controls ya weak minds.

Peace

Originally posted by CounslerCoffee
I think that only a terrorist would
come up with the idea of Jihad.
Jihad

Other Commonly Used Spellings: JIHAAD

It is an Arabic word the root of which is Jahada, which means to
strive for a better way of life. The nouns are Juhd, Mujahid, Jihad,
and Ijtihad. The other meanings are: endeavor, strain, exertion,
effort, diligence, fighting to defend one's life, land, and religion.

Jihad should not be confused with Holy War; the latter does not
exist in Islam nor will Islam allow its followers to be involved in a
Holy War. The latter refers to the Holy War of the Crusaders.

Jihad is not a war to force the faith on others, as many people
think of it. It should never be interpreted as a way of compulsion
of the belief on others, since there is an explicit verse in the
Qur'an that says:"There is no compulsion in religion" Al-Qur'an:
Al-Baqarah (2:256).

Jihad is not a defensive war only, but a war against any unjust
regime. If such a regime exists, a war is to be waged against the
leaders, but not against the people of that country. People
should be freed from the unjust regimes and influences so that
they can freely choose to believe in Allah.

Not only in peace but also in war Islam prohibits terrorism,
kidnapping, and hijacking, when carried against civilians.
Whoever commits such violations is considered a murderer in
Islam, and is to be punished by the Islamic state. during wars,
Islam prohibits Muslim soldiers from harming civilians, women,
children, elderly, and the religious men like priests and rabies.
It also prohibits cutting down trees and destroying civilian
constructions.

Source:
Glossary of Islamic Terms and Concepts (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/glossary.html)

See also:
Jihad: Looking beyond the myths (http://www.islamfortoday.com/jihad01.htm)

Then why do we see these terrorists commiting all the wrongs they are not supposed to? Feh...

Humans...

Then why do we see these terrorists commiting all the wrongs they are not supposed to?

Have you actually seen these terrorist? Other than what is stated in the media. But lets say that these terrorist are of Arab decent. The majority of the worlds Muslims are not Arab. Why blame Islam? In places like palestine, we have a different situation. They are under occupation. Had the US been under occupation, it's citizens being treated like animals on a daily basis, what do you think would happen? Would these proud american folks sit back and take it? Imagine having to go through a check point to get to work every morning - the soilders pointing guns at your head while your ID is check - your wife being molested in the name of body searches. Day in and day out. Your form of protest starts with throwing rocks at tanks. They fire rubber bullets at you. Ever see someone get shot in the head with a rubber bullet? Well the israel army became quite adapt at hitting targets with rubber bullets. They do a pretty good job of killing.

Have you actually seen these terrorist?
No. If a terrorist walks around admitting he/she's a terrorist, they deserve to get shot in the head.

They are under occupation.
Who is occupying Palestine?

Imagine having to go through a check point to get to work every morning
Palestinians are forced to work in Israel?

Your form of protest starts with throwing rocks at tanks.
What does the Six-Day War mean to you?

Ok, ok. Maybe Israel does have it's army in Palestine. I would compare it to what would happen if Mexico were to start attacking the US in the same manner.

You cannot say that the Israeli army has attacked without being provoked. Why is it their fault that they have more efficient weapons at their disposal?

Compare the nmber of Israeli's in Palestine to the number of Palestinians in Israel. You will find that Palestine is the aggressor.

Originally posted by VAKEMP
Compare the nmber of Israeli's in Palestine to the number of Palestinians in Israel. You will find that Palestine is the aggressor.

LOL........HAHAHA...:D :D :D I can't help laughing. Sorry. You need help.

Muslims Accept Falwell's Apology (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=540&ncid=540&e=8&u=/ap/20021014/ap_on_re_mi_ea/muslims_falwell_3) (AP/Yahoo!)Mon Oct 14,12:13 PM ET

By SALAH NASRAWI, Associated Press Writer

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) - Leaders in the two main branches of Islam welcomed an apology from the Rev. Jerry Falwell, who had angered Muslims by calling the founder of their religion a terrorist.

Falwell "deserves thanks for his return to the righteous path," said Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, the grand sheik of Al-Azhar, a Sunni Muslim mosque in Cairo. The sheik's comments came in a statement Monday to The Associated Press.

In the Iranian city of Qom, an important Shiite Muslim center of learning, a high-ranking cleric said Falwell had shown courage.

"A person courageous enough to apologize for his errors is worthy of praise," Ayatollah Hussein Mousavi Tabrizi told The Associated Press. "It's humanitarian and good Islamic behavior to accept an apology from a person who admits making a mistake."

In an interview with CBS' "60 Minutes," Falwell said he had concluded from reading Muslim and non-Muslim writers that the Prophet Muhammad "was a violent man, a man of war."

"I think Muhammad was a terrorist," the conservative Baptist minister said.

Muslims were outraged. An Iranian cleric called for his death while a general strike called to protest his comments in Bombay, India, turned into a riot, and five people were killed.

On Saturday, Falwell issued an apology:

"I sincerely apologize that certain statements of mine made during an interview for the Sept. 30 edition of CBS's "60 Minutes" were hurtful to the feelings of many Muslims. I intended no disrespect to any sincere, law-abiding Muslim."

He said he made the remarks in response to "one controversial and loaded question" at the end of an hourlong interview.

"That was a mistake and I apologize," Falwell said.

Though other prominent Islamic leaders were ready to accept the apology, Sheik Zuheir Jaaed, deputy head of the Islamic Ulama Gathering, a Lebanon-based association of Sunni and Shiite Muslim scholars, said Falwell's comments "will not calm us."

One "cannot insult the prophet then apologize," Jaaed said.

He said Falwell's remarks were part of a "huge campaign" against Muslims involving the Bush administration.

In Lebanon last week, Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah called on Muslims to respond with peaceful dialogue to Falwell who, he said, had "infringed on the prophet (Muhammad's) dignity."

Fadlallah, a senior Shiite religious authority and a harsh critic of U.S. policies in the Middle East, had no immediate comment on Falwell's apology. His aides said Monday that Fadlallah was studying the apology.So does anybody believe that Falwell "intended no disrespect to any sincere, law-abiding Muslims"?

Few things grate on my nerves as much as a false apology. What kind of message is Falwell sending to American Christians? That if you say you intended no disrespect, then you can say whatever you wanted?

A full-blown retraction would help to make his case as genuine. It's not every day, you know, that a Shii Ayatollah has the upper hand on a prominent American Christian. Enjoy the irony.

At this time I would like to point out (again) an irony I find somewhat amusing: Why do people think this kind of anti-Muslim rhetoric works? When we get down to it, and examine the actions of the US in a "Christian" sense, we see that most Americans prefer the Muslim idea of striking back against aggression until aggression ceases. Does that make Americans terrorists?But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. (Matthew 5.39 NKJV)Just thought that worth mention.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

Who is occupying Palestine?

Uhh... *bonk* Greenland, silly! lol no, it's Israel of course. Have you been living in a cave for the past decade or two?

Palestinians are forced to work in Israel?

No, Palestinians have to go through checkpoints to get INTO their own cities. So if you live in a small town near Gaza City, you have to go through a checkpoint to get to work.

What does the Six-Day War mean to you?

Uhm... say, trying to liberate Palestinians? Maybe?

Ok, ok. Maybe Israel does have it's army in Palestine. I would compare it to what would happen if Mexico were to start attacking the US in the same manner.

Oh, so you're saying that no Israelis immigrated to the area and then demanded their own nation? Imagine if Mexicans flooded our country so that 50% of Americans were of 1st~3rd-generation Mexican heritage. These people demand one half of the country, much of it land with non-Mexican-heritage people living on it. The UN tells us that we have to meet their demands or face military attacks from a bunch of other countries... THEN the Americans start launching guerilla attacks on the Amerixican nation, and people say they have no right to attack. DUH.

You cannot say that the Israeli army has attacked without being provoked. Why is it their fault that they have more efficient weapons at their disposal?

While the Israeli army may not have attacked without being provoked, the Israelis provoked the Palestinians by demanding a nation when they had no right to one in land that was already inhabited by other nationalities. A modern-day "first nations" happening...

Compare the nmber of Israeli's in Palestine to the number of Palestinians in Israel. You will find that Palestine is the aggressor.

The thing is, most of the Palestinian families in Israel have lived there since much before it became Israel, whereas the Israelis in Palestine generally live in settlements established in the last 50 years.

Arab:
A member of a Semitic people inhabiting Arabia, whose language
and Islamic religion spread widely throughout the Middle East
and northern Africa from the seventh century.

Palestine:
A historical region of southwest Asia at the eastern end of the
Mediterranean Sea and roughly coextensive with modern Israel
and the West Bank. Occupied since pre-historic times, it has been
ruled by Hebrews, Egyptians, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs,
and Turks. A British League of Nations mandate oversaw the
affairs of the area from 1920 until 1948, when Israel declared
itself a separate state and the West Bank territory was occupied
by Jordan. The West Bank was subsequently annexed (1950) by
Jordan and occupied (1967) by Israel. In 1988 the Palestine
Liberation Organization under Yasir Arafat declared its intention
of forming an Arab state of Palestine, probably including the West
Bank, the Gaza Strip, and the Arab sector of Jerusalem. The
Palestinians achieved limited self-rule in the Gaza Strip and the
West Bank in 1993 and 1994.

Muslim:
A believer in or adherent of Islam.

Source:
Dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com)
_____________________

Islam
Islam is an Arabic word the root of which is Silm and Salam.
It means among others: peace, greeting, salutation, obedience,
loyalty, allegiance, and submission to the will of the Creator of
the Universe.

Islam is the last and final religion to all mankind and to all
generations irrespective of color, race, nationality, ethnic
background, language, or social position.

The religion of Islam is not to be confused with Mohammedanism.
The latter is misnomer to Islam. Muslims do not accept this name
as it gives wrong information about Islam and Muslims.

Source:
Glossary of Islamic Terms and Concepts (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/glossary.html)
__________________

NOTE: I know I posted this in philosophy
forum already but imo clarity was needed
in both places. Jumps out of both threads.

"Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?" Lamartine, HISTOIRE DE LA TURQUIE, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp. 276-277.


Muhammad did indeed change the world, even today his thought & religion influence over a billion people.
On the cultural front: in art, dress, language, poetry, architecture, and (family, societal, religious & governmental) ideals & ideas. Most people that were conquered by muslim armies, converted within several generations, leaving any prior religious system in the minority (see Middle East & North Africa).
On the political front: within 79 years, Islamic armies had conquered from Spain, North Africa to India. At 1380 years & counting, Muhammad’s spiritual empire has out-lasted Hitler’s so-called Thousand-Year Reich (only 12 years), and every empires that harassed it. It has defeated or out-lived kingdoms & empires; Arameans, Byzantines, Persians, Egyptians, Berbers, Vandals, Visigoths, T’ang Chinese, European Crusaders, Italian city-states, Spanish, French, English, Dutch, Portuguese, Hindu states and the Soviet Union.
On the historical front: only four lands have been successfully wrestled from the grip of islam; Spain (1492), the Philippines (1565), India (1750) & Israel (1948). Muslims were able to convert several warrior tribes that made an impact on the world; Seljuk & Ottoman Turks, Mongols (Moguls in India), & Tartars. Islam has remained important in thought, politics & society since 632 until the present.
On the religious front: most of the lands that Jesus & Paul walked, have now been peopled with muslims for the last 1300 years; Palestine, Turkey, Egypt, Syria, & Lebanon.


What say ye? Prophet, charlatan, war lord, peacemaker, angel, demon, man, myth?

I don't think we'll ever know what he was truly like. Businessman, for certain. In his pre-prophet times it's written that he was a merchant.

We don't know anything else about him really. Sort of like we don't know much about Jesus, just a prophet and a carpenter. Good person, sure. But we don't know that. Hell, we don't even know for sure if he was a carpenter. Its just what the Book says.

Oh yeah. A good book concerning Islam and Buddhism is "The Years of Rice and Salt" by Kim Stanley Robinson. Its sci-fi/alternate-history. It's sort of "what would the world be like if all of europe was destroyed by a plague in the 14th century, and muslim and buddhist societies were the dominant powers in the world?" Sounds good. I haven't read it yet. I'll post up about it when i get it and read it.

Cheers :cool:

Originally posted by NenarTronian

we don't even know for sure if he was a carpenter. Its just what the Book says.
new research implies term could have meant stone mason

Oh yeah. A good book concerning Islam and Buddhism is "The Years of Rice and Salt" by Kim Stanley Robinson. Its sci-fi/alternate-history. It's sort of "what would the world be like if all of europe was destroyed by a plague in the 14th century, and muslim and buddhist societies were the dominant powers in the world?" Sounds good. I haven't read it yet. I'll post up about it when i get it and read it.

Cheers :cool:

Read 3 of his Mars series: Red, Green & Blue. Possible? yeah, maybe. Never know until we get there, but good sci-fi!! only left one thing unresolved for me, were those tiny red martians real, a figment of someones imigination or just a filler?
:D :cool: :D :cool:

Randfolfo,
I'm not sure. KSR is brilliant truly. Some parts of the book..i couldnt understand. One beggining of a chapter in BLUE MARS, you know the stuff italicized before the chapter begins, sounds like it was written by a drunken, 90 year old man coked out of his skull. But it's good none the less. Awesome books really.

I think the little red martians weren't supposed to be taken as "real", just like big man wasn't either. It's just an idea. The little red people talked about the people taking their planet, the archae bacteria eating them..etc.

KSR: the man!

Have you read "Purple mars"? Its an anthology, it's alright.

Originally posted by NenarTronian
Oh yeah. A good book concerning Islam and Buddhism is "The Years of Rice and Salt" by Kim Stanley Robinson. Its sci-fi/alternate-history. It's sort of "what would the world be like if all of europe was destroyed by a plague in the 14th century, and muslim and buddhist societies were the dominant powers in the world?" Sounds good. I haven't read it yet. I'll post up about it when i get it and read it.

Cheers :cool:

Actually, this came close to really happening, at least three times muslims could have conquered Europe:

1) as the muslim armies fanned out of Spain (recently conquered in 711, called al-Andalus in Arabic), into France. Stopped by 'the Hammer', Charles Martel in 732-733.

2) in 1525 under the Turkish sultan, Suleiman the Magnificent Vienna was laid siege, but did not surrender,

&

3) in 1683, the Turkish sultan sent an army of 200,000 men directly against Vienna, under the command of the Grand Vizier Kara Mustapha; they were defeated by a combined army, led by the charge of the Poles under their warrior-king Jan Sobieski, who routed the Turks

Fitting title for a thread given current events, wouldn't you say?

A man named Muhammad
became a sniper for God
He shot men women and children

His code name was God

The similarities to Mohammad
may only be that he's mad
with the insanity of jihad.




John Allen Muhammad 43 was an angry terrorist.



Monotheism does not the same God make.

Nor is religion is evil.

However it becomes so every time a religion holds itself out as a political power or excuse for the destruction of another state or religion.

It makes me smirk everytime I hear a virtual athiest use religion to further their project and profits. "God bless this new weapon system and the Congress that will fund us to the tune of 160 billion dollars."

The heretic who mentions this kind of hypocrisy is said to attack the basic rights of religious beliefs. Not I.

People and institutions wrap themselves in a flag and/or religion in hopes to make their scheme invincible and unassalible to criticism.

It has happened before and is happening again.

Demonize the humanist, the liberal, the Jew, in the name of religion and political power.

In a way Islam is just being more forthright in their obscene holy declaration that all "unbelievers" are infidels and the holy tenent of Jihad is required for you to be a complete muslim.

The social and political experiments to free people from the yolk and perverted excuses in the name of religion have failed because another institution just took its place. "Might makes right" is the typical philosophy that allows people to reach the top of most ruling political, religious and terrorist entities.

Religion will go on forever.
Why?
Face it, everyone enjoys a good magic show, being told they are special and having a sense of belonging.

The promise of immortality doesn't hurt either.

Dear All,

All I say that the Picture of Islam and Our Holly Prophet Mohammad (Peace Be Upon Him) is totally different as you seen last days due to many political reasons.
You cant say that Jihad is not necessary for any person, actually the main theme of Jihad is to fight for the right. You probably have fought many time for your basic rights and Islam is a Peace and fighting for Peace is Jihad.
Due to some political change arose from Afghanistan and now in Iraq perhaps the other site of the story. I personally against the Jihad of Afghanistan. But what you have seen in Iraq, War imposed to them because of Oil or gaining some political favours. Well, the picture of Islam in your mind is something else as its been created. Hopefully, you understand (Inshallah).
If you want to answer your questions in detail before critisizing on religative topics, first get the complete details about it and then answer yourself, JUDGE is sitting in your minds. Try it you will get it.
Also visit it it will explore the minds and will enter you into new world !!!
http:\\www.harunyahya.com
http://www.harunyahya.com/prophetmuhammad01.php

Regards
IS
imr123@hotmail.com

just a quick point, don't even attempt to pontificate on a subject you know nothing about (this is not aimed at anyone specific, just generally). Before even attempting to spout nonsense about Islam/Mohamed, at least have the decency to have a look at the Koran and the Hadith. Oh and another thing, the literal translation of "jihad" is struggle, any struggle is a jihad, when a man struggles to support his family and put food on the table thats Jihad, when someone battles an illness thats Jihad, when someone fights the temptation to do something bad thats Jihad.

Originally posted by bhudmaash
just a quick point, don't even attempt to pontificate on a subject you know nothing about (this is not aimed at anyone specific, just generally). Before even attempting to spout nonsense about Islam/Mohamed, at least have the decency to have a look at the Koran and the Hadith. Oh and another thing, the literal translation of "jihad" is struggle, any struggle is a jihad, when a man struggles to support his family and put food on the table thats Jihad, when someone battles an illness thats Jihad, when someone fights the temptation to do something bad thats Jihad. That is understood already, but past & current realization of what "Jihad" is, has always been war. Ask the Byzantine Empire, what form of "Jihad" they met? Ask the Sassanid Empire what form of "Jihad" they were introduced to? Ask the Vandal Kingdom what form of "Jihad" swept through North Africa? Ask the Visagothic kings what form of "Jihad" started a 781 year war of liberation for them?
If muslims had just concentrated on 'mental jihad', striving for justice, striving for peace, striving for good; why islam would be "peace", seems that all non-muslims usually see is that 'islam' means 'war'.

If Muhammed is a terrorist then Jesus is a terrorist too. Simple logic.. You cant put a word like "terrorism" back in to those times. They didnt even know what terrorism was back then.
Muhammed fought with his believers against the non-believers like Jesus did. When you think from a Roman point of view Jesus was also a terrorrist. Your reasoning makes no sense at all.
I think i should also say that it is very ignorant from you to say something like this without having anything to back it up. According to Kur'an Muslem people respect both Muhammed and Jesus as a prophet, messengers of god (check the religion section for my topic about this)

Jihad is struggle, any struggle. Your thinking of Jihad is when all muslems come together and fight a force. That never happened.
There is no such thing like killing in the name of Allah in Islam. The The crusades is a good example for jihad if you want to think about jihad as war.

Originally posted by Soulcry
If Muhammed is a terrorist then Jesus is a terrorist too. Simple logic.. You cant put a word like "terrorism" back in to those times. They didnt even know what terrorism was back then.
Muhammed fought with his believers against the non-believers like Jesus did. When you think from a Roman point of view Jesus was also a terrorrist. Your reasoning makes no sense at all.
I think i should also say that it is very ignorant from you to say something like this without having anything to back it up. According to Kur'an Muslem people respect both Muhammed and Jesus as a prophet, messengers of god (check the religion section for my topic about this)
Muslims don't understand who Jesus is, the one that the Koran teaches is a different "Jesus" than who he was, if islam can change who we believe in, then I can say that all true muslims are really Christians & that Mohammad was really a christian, but his followers corrupted the Koran & made it as it is today, different, not christian, not jewish.

Originally posted by Soulcry
Jihad is struggle, any struggle. Your thinking of Jihad is when all muslems come together and fight a force. That never happened.
There is no such thing like killing in the name of Allah in Islam. The The crusades is a good example for jihad if you want to think about jihad as war. You obviously don't know what form of "Jihad" the West has always faced, starting in 632 AD (that would be 10 AH), you think conquest is peace, if carried out by Muslims? Thank you but I prefer the Mental struggle that we are using, this is the "Jihad" that should be used, Salaam!

Who said that i am Muslem? :rolleyes:

Look, Islam and Christianity is the same thing. Its really not different. Islam is just like an updated version of Christianity. You know what is the most important thing in Islam? There is no one equal to Allah. So this proves that Islam came as a religion just because of the wrong belief of Jesus being the son of God. Muhammed said million times that people shouldnt worship him. This clearly says that there was a mistake before and we want to correct it. This is how i think about this issue. The rest of the Kur'an is the same with the bible. You should be good, do this and do that.... Islam and Christianity is actually so close to each other but some people just dont want to reealize this because they equalize Islam with the Arabs. Arabs are not the only people of Islam. The Arab Imperialism of Islam is something that i dislike. Even the highest population of Muslems dont live in any middle eastern country.

Jihad is something that didnt happened (after the death of the prophet) and will probably never happpen because there is almost no chance that the muslems can unite against a cause.
I also can not understand why Christians always talk about jihad. Actually the Muslems should talk about this much more because the Christians gave a great example of jihad with the crusades.
By the way i dont know Arabic..
If you think about jihad as wars to make your religion popular around the globe then you are wrong.

I was just thinking.. if the Romans didnt think that Jesus was a terrorist then why did they kill him?

Look, it's a story by "Paul" wrapped around various Judaic prophecies, often in contradictory fashion. During that occupation, Romans did not have to think much at all to kill anyone they wished to. This has long been the fashion for most of the occupiers of the Muddle East.

Originally posted by Soulcry
Who said that i am Muslem? :rolleyes:
Your answers implied that, but thanks for clarifying

Look, Islam and Christianity is the same thing. Its really not different. Islam is just like an updated version of Christianity. You know what is the most important thing in Islam? There is no one equal to Allah. So this proves that Islam came as a religion just because of the wrong belief of Jesus being the son of God. try not to be too confused, but the reality that you know as a muslim is not true, Christians know what the Bible says & they also know what Jesus said & did, the Koran is wrong & all muslims are wrong, read the Bible & the Koran together, see how close they are, not!


Islam and Christianity is actually so close to each other but some people just dont want to reealize this because they equalize Islam with the Arabs.
You need to read the Bible, I'm not sure were you get your info, but the day that Muslims & christians will be the same, is when you all convert to christianity before the last day

Arabs are not the only people of Islam. The Arab Imperialism of Islam is something that i dislike. Even the highest population of Muslems dont live in any middle eastern country. I already know, Indonesia has the most, so your point is? That I don't know about muslims & islam?

Its is not nice to be insulting religions.

All religions have or will have blood spilled in their name.

To those who are trying to find support for their religious high-ground, you have already lost it.

Good job Katavan, I tried to say the same thing, but much meaner words came out.

Originally posted by tiassa
[url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?At this time I would like to point out (again) an irony I find somewhat amusing: Why do people think this kind of anti-Muslim rhetoric works? When we get down to it, and examine the actions of the US in a "Christian" sense, we see that most Americans prefer the Muslim idea of striking back against aggression until aggression ceases. Does that make Americans terrorists?Just thought that worth mention.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

So falwell insults the muslims in the city square and apologizes to them in the bedroom....Very nice....His mission is accomplished.

Katavan-
if: "All religions have or will have blood spilled in their name."
then why: "Its is not nice to be insulting religions."?

All the starring personalities of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, are hopelessly lost behind myths, distortions and time. Divine intervention is by definition not happening (look around). Charades and crusades over comparitive godliness have been getting far too many people slaughtered for far too long. Because of the racism at the very heart of it, Judaism together with all religions and sects derived from it have brought more murder and suffering than any other superstitious thoughtstream in history.

Because of this, it is nice to insult religions, to hold them completely accountable for the many holocausts they have brought, and to expose their every hypocracy, lie, and crime. Unproven and destructive easy explanations for reality need to be discarded, so that the truer quest may go forward. In the hands of their followers, the Yahweh, Jesus, and Mohammed myths have all become forces for terrorism. Uncomfortable as it is to admit- as beautiful and even exstatic the religious experience can be, it is dangerous and debilitating. Religion has insulted humanity, and I insult it vehemently right back.

And what is wrong with keeping the religion a private matter for each individuals, take the religion out of schools and government, ban religious establishments, that way noone will know who is what and religion will be kept pure in people's hearts and out of BinLaden reach, and then drop the insults all together.

I am not advocating forcing anyone to think or do anything. I am simply making a plea for thinking people to critically examine destructive movements, and decide if they personally want to be a part of them. The sickness at the very heart of these religions is plain for all to see: They perpetuate, and hardly suppress, the worst aspects of collective human behavior.

Originally posted by Randolfo
Your answers implied that, but thanks for clarifying

try not to be too confused, but the reality that you know as a muslim is not true, Christians know what the Bible says & they also know what Jesus said & did, the Koran is wrong & all muslims are wrong, read the Bible & the Koran together, see how close they are, not!



You need to read the Bible, I'm not sure were you get your info, but the day that Muslims & christians will be the same, is when you all convert to christianity before the last day

I already know, Indonesia has the most, so your point is? That I don't know about muslims & islam?

I'm a muslim and I'm telling you that you're right. Islam and your version of christianity have nothing to do with each other. Islam is submission to the creator, while christianity is pagan beliefs in multiple forms of god, corrupting the pure image of Jesus Christ and making it a god or son of god, ect.....I don't want ever to think that my belief is remotely close to what modern christians belief. And may our creator judge between us in what we differ...it's not your job to judge in the place of your creator.

Thanks

"Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?" Lamartine, HISTOIRE DE LA TURQUIE, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp. 276-277.[/COLOR] [/B] [/B]
You forgot genocide Lamartine. It's time to call a spade a spade. Mohammed was a terrorist.

You will not find a Muslim who returns your insults by insulting Jesus or any of the other prophets, because we believe and respect all the prophets of god equally, on the other hand, you don't hesitate to be ignorant and call a prophet of god names without knowing anything....

In addition,
Goofy, Should this thread be moved to religion? Where scriptures and history could be used to rebutt the argument. I don't feel like getting into history of life of Muhammed and his teachings on a political site. And how else is one to respond to blanc gross accusation that his prophet is terrorist?

I guess, do what Prophet Jesus does and turn the other cheek in the face of the accusations.

U know what the problem is with questions like was Muhammad a terrorist? ......u actually need to know what a terrorist is and who Muhammad was .

Im sure neither are well understood .......
Im sure y'all have seen no qu'ran or hadith in your life , and we all know terrorism is just the latest ethical vomit u produced to defend ur own survival .

On Jerry :
"I think Mohammed was a terrorist. I read enough by both Muslims and non-Muslims, [to decide] that he was a violent man, a man of war," Falwell tells CBS. "In my opinion, Jesus set the example for love, as did Moses, and I think Mohammed set an opposite example."

Clearely this person is a caveman savage who has no clue on logics , or has any accurate information for that matter .

Was Muhammad a terrorist......sure , everybody's a terrorist sometimes .... :bugeye:

What terror-implication level should one have reached in his life (or some other time measured) to be called a terrorist ? And how exactly is the ammount of terror measured , and how is the responsibility one has on the terror decided ?

Originally posted by Allahs_Mathematics
......sure , everybody's a terrorist sometimes .... :bugeye:


I terrorized my fern the other day by forgetting to water it. :)

Islam and Christianity cant be different! Both are monotheist religions and came from the same God. However the way Muslems and Christians interpret it is totally different. We just did our best to confuse everyone with the way we interpret the Bible or the Kur'an. Thanks to us everything is messed up. I am sure that neither Muhammed (s.a.v) nor Jesus is happy the way things go right now.
The crusaders thought that they were fighting and dying in the name of God.. poor guys. Killing in the name of God?!
There is nothing like that in Islam or Christianity.. we just make these things up like Islamic terrorist, Christian infidel......

The reason I am against any form of organized religion. Keep it between you and the allmighty without a mediator or a book. Why push your belief on anyone else because you all have an equal chance of being full of $nl+.

Of course thats just me. I may very well be full of $nl+.

What terror-implication level should one have reached in his life (or some other time measured) to be called a terrorist ? And how exactly is the ammount of terror measured , and how is the responsibility one has on the terror decided ?
Upon reading this, I looked up terrorism in the dictionary.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons. (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=terrorism%20)
In keeping with the subject at hand, Mohammed (and his warriors) exterminated over 10,000 Hindus and forced women to make "slave or suicide" decisions.
Mohammed has "threatened use of force or violence" (killing tribes who are not Muslim/or are occupying land that he wishes to occupy), an "organized group" (warriors), "property" (from all the land he invaded/conquered), "intimidates" (slavery or suicide).
In thinking about current events (not religiously speaking, but in general) some things never change :(

Originally posted by havalina

In thinking about current events (not religiously speaking, but in general) some things never change :(

Note:
old testament prophets were saints. no?
native americans didn't kill one another over religion. no?
hindus had one god, no violence there. no?
taoism was always happy with buddhism. no?
pagan religions always got along. no?

show me your poison and I'll show you the body.

Hi katavan,

I said "not religiously speaking" as to not single out Muslims. I didn't mean to imply that people don't commit acts of terror in the name of religion.

Originally posted by heflores
I'm a muslim and I'm telling you that you're right. Islam and your version of christianity have nothing to do with each other. Islam & any form of Christianity have nothing to do with each other, stop trying to tell Christians what they really believe. Do you want me to tell you what you what muslims should believe, why its islamic Christianity, Christian submission, you know that all this years you muslims have been deceived, Mohammad was a Christian, but after he died, his followers corrupted both the Koran & his teaching, why he was dead, so his followers didn't think he would mind, after all he was dead.

Islam is submission to the creator, So it's chrisitianity, cool

while christianity is pagan beliefs in multiple forms of god, corrupting the pure image of Jesus Christ and making it a god or son of god, ect.....
Stop talking about islam & its moon god, why do you think you have crescent on every mosque? Allah & his daughters, look it up, why do you think there was the 'satanic verses'?
I don't want ever to think that my belief is remotely close to what modern Christians belief.
You right, its hat ancient pagan arabs believed, moon god allah
And may our creator judge between us in what we differ...it's not your job to judge in the place of your creator.

Thanks your right, so stop, thank you

Originally posted by Randolfo
... stop trying to tell Christians what they really believe...


They do? christianity has broken and fragmented into a thousand different fractions, cults, denomations and sects.

One book, many different and usually bloody interpretations.

As for associating Islam with various pagan religions, same applies with Christianity.

Originally posted by Randolfo

You need to read the Bible, I'm not sure were you get your info, but the day that Muslims & christians will be the same, is when you all convert to christianity before the last day


As I have stated earlier don't try and find support for a religious high-ground, you have already lost it.

Randolfo...

"Muslims don't understand who Jesus is, the one that the Koran teaches is a different "Jesus" than who he was, if islam can change who we believe in, then I can say that all true muslims are really Christians & that Mohammad was really a christian, but his followers corrupted the Koran & made it as it is today, different, not christian, not jewish."

Like I mentioned in an earlier reply, please don't spout off about Islam without even picking up the Koran or Hadith.

This thread could go on for ages,...but I hope you you achieved what you wanted to by stirring up the hornet's nest....just what exactly where you trying to prove by starting this thread??

Muslims understand EXACTLY who Jesus is. Jesus is mentioned in the Koran 5 times more than the Prophet himself. The Prophet himself is quoted in a Hadith as saying if "a muslim does not believe in the other (prophets) of Allah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, then he cannot call himself a Muslim"

The above quote by you really does highlight your complete lack of understanding of the whole ethos of Islam, and the wider perspective of where the three religions stand with respect to eachother, and just how closely related they are. But Judaism and Christianity were very time and Geo specific, in that they where just enough for that particular period of time, whereas Islam is more concise, detailed, and explicit...thats not me being biassed, thats just the way it is.
Each year Millions of Muslims from around the World of all colours perform Hajj by visiting the Kabah at mecca, the Kabah was built by the Prophet Abraham hence highlighting the importance of the Position of Abraham. So I think Muslims have a very good perspective of the other faiths, they have to since it's taught as part of Islam, so they learn it by default.

Originally posted by bhudmaash

The above quote by you really does highlight your complete lack of understanding of the whole ethos of Islam, and the wider perspective of where the three religions stand with respect to eachother, and just how closely related they are.

But, as a muslim, I find myself dwelling negatively over the fact that the christians believe the Jesus is god. This is completely off track for a muslim to think. How can a muslim understand this prespective of christianity without getting angry? While it's entrenched in us muslims that we should never associate anything with our ONE object of worship, the creator, god.

How do you truly coexist in a civil manner while you think that your nice neighbor and your trustworthy kids soccer coach has believes that will send them to hell later. How can different religions coexist.

Yes I understand, but modern day Christianity has virtually no resemblance to the teachings of Jesus Christ. When the Emperor Constatine took up Christianity effectively converting the Romans to Christianity, they changed Christianity beyond all recognition. I'm pretty sure Jesus Christ ever said that "I am the son of God"

"The sun looses nothing by shining into a puddle" so one looses nothing by being strong in ones own beliefs, and respecting others for theirs. Ultimately the truth will be known...one day, but by then it will just be too late.

Originally posted by havalina
You forgot genocide Lamartine. It's time to call a spade a spade. Mohammed was a terrorist.

Can you please prove this statement. Please show any link, site, post, etc. that lends any proof to your post.

You made a very derogatory remark. Please back it up. If you can't, and you can't, you need to shut your mouth.

To those who call themselves christians - Jesus [pbuh] was not a christian. Please show in the bible and not by failed attempts at deduction that he was - show me where in the book where he says "I am a Christian".

Originally posted by heflores
How can different religions coexist.

How has humanity survived all these years?

Sympathy, compassion and maybe a dash of love give rise to tolerance, understanding and acceptance. You are still a member of the human species are you not. That common ground is all we need to try and coexist peacefully (except when somebody tries to eat my chocolate fudge).

"Our colors, our ideologies and religions might be different but one thing remains the same, we are still human beings."

I was more looking for you to say, separation of religion from public life......still..your points are well taken.

Originally posted by heflores
I was more looking for you to say, separation of religion from public life......still..your points are well taken.

In these stressful times we all need a little religion and blind faith.

If not, your shrink bill will be OUCH!

:)

Katavan...hear hear!....I'll drink to that.

Mankind! We created you from a male and female, and made you into peoples and tribes so that you might come to know each other. The noblest among you in God's sight is that one of you who best performs his duty. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware. (The Koran, 49:13)




Those who disbelieve filled their hearts with fanatical rage - the fanatical rage of the Time of Ignorance - and God sent down serenity to His Messenger and to the believers, and obliged them to respect the formula of heedfulness which they had most right to and were most entitled to. God has knowledge of all things. (The Koran, 48:26)

I disagree, there is nothing more stressfull to me than answering a christian who asks...Are you Mooslem?? The second question usually follow? Why are you not covered up like the Afghanistan women? Then it goes to, Do you pray five times with your head in the ground? By that time, I'm ready to to end the conversation with the complete stranger, I get told.....You're not a real muslim or anything are you....In a form of compliment...

You see what I mean....stereotyping liking no tomorrow......It should be illigal to ask someone their religion or assume the religion of anyone based on cloth, beard, ect.

Originally posted by bhudmaash
Katavan...hear hear!....I'll drink to that.

Mankind! We created you from a male and female, and made you into peoples and tribes so that you might come to know each other. The noblest among you in God's sight is that one of you who best performs his duty. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware. (The Koran, 49:13)



I love that verse. I hope you're drinking virgin punch.

Originally posted by heflores
I disagree, there is nothing more stressfull to me than answering a christian who asks...Are you Mooslem?? The second question usually follow? Why are you not covered up like the Afghanistan women? Then it goes to, Do you pray five times with your head in the ground? Do you pray to Allah....they say it like it's this alien or something.... By that time, I'm ready to to end the conversation with the complete stranger, I get told.....You're not a real muslim or anything are you....In a form of compliment...

You see what I mean....stereotyping liking no tomorrow......It should be illigal to ask someone their religion or assume the religion of anyone based on cloth, beard, ect.

Its normal for people to be ignorant. Its great (but understandly stressful) that people are at least attempting to have a conversation (could be because you are female :) )

Give it time, your children would be thankful. Believe me.

Patience and a tape recorder with an auto-rewind function is all you need.

To Heflores :.....nothin' but mineral H2O for me Hef!

Originally posted by bhudmaash
Randolfo...
Like I mentioned in an earlier reply, please don't spout off about Islam without even picking up the Koran or Hadith.
I already have a Quran & this is an open forum, you can say anything you want about christianity (do you read the Bible or only what the Quran says is in it?), do the same rules apply to you or only me? You obvouisly haven't read the Bible, prove me wrong


Muslims understand EXACTLY who Jesus is. Jesus is mentioned in the Koran 5 times more than the Prophet himself. The Prophet himself is quoted in a Hadith as saying if "a muslim does not believe in the other (prophets) of Allah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, then he cannot call himself a Muslim"

all false, so sorry, read the Bible for the truth, BTW, Jesus claims to be the Truth, the Way & the Life in the Bible, if he isn't, then Islam has a long way to go to convince me its more than a cheap imitation

whoa...hang on there sparky.....Jesus Christ is mentioned 5 times more than the prophet is mentioned in the Koran...not false, fact actually.

Jesus name is really Issa or Isa the son of Mary. He was also called in the Koran, Isa, Elmessaiah.

A search of the word Isa in the Koran yeilded the following, please read before further accusation.

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=simple&q1=isa&size=First+100

all false, so sorry, read the (insert religion here) for the truth...

Have heard this same statement from a number of religious fanatics, zealots.

Funny isn't it how everybody seems to know the "truth".

Randolfo, before we continue this head banging, can I ask do you believe in God? If yes, do you believe that the word of God was revealed to Jesus Christ?

Randolfo would say:
Jesus christ died for all mankind sin. Except that mankind is sinning worse after his death for some reason. His first name is Jesus and his last name is christ after his daddy in heaven. That makes god christ and Jesus the son of god or son of christ. I don't know how them make the three thing happen, but there is a rule thumb to that too.

Its just that he says that he has a copy of the Koran, and yet still thinks that Islam is a "cheap imitation "...it just beggars belief!! If he does have a Koran, then he has all the answers under his nose!!!....and thus there shouldn't have to be any need for this "Muhamed is a terrorist" crap in the first place.

By the way, nice link Hef...I hope he reads it...but if he DOES have a Koran like he says he does....he would already know all that stuff anyway.

Originally posted by bhudmaash
Its just that he says that he has a copy of the Koran, and yet still thinks that Islam is a "cheap imitation "...
You think just reading it, will make me a muslim? The more I read it, the more it seems false, BTW, why did they change the order that the Quran was printed, from chronological (when it as first reveled), to longest-to-shortest suras?

it just beggars belief!! If he does have a Koran, then he has all the answers under his nose!!!....
Don't be soo surprised, the Quran has nothing to show people, only muslims see something worth while, the see the number 19, etc.

and thus there shouldn't have to be any need for this "Muhamed is a terrorist" crap in the first place.
Actually, if you read my posts, I believe he was more of a war lord, he may have founded a religion that leads to terrorists, but provably only because of the martyrdom thing, BTW, if a female becomes a martyr, does she get 70 virgin males?

By the way, nice link Hef...I hope he reads it...but if he DOES have a Koran like he says he does....he would already know all that stuff anyway. Hey, if you're going to send private messages, use PM, if you want to talk to me in the third person, then you won't mind if I send you messages in the past tense

You didn't answer my question.

Originally posted by heflores
Jesus name is really Issa or Isa the son of Mary. He was also called in the Koran, Isa, Elmessaiah.

A search of the word Isa in the Koran yeilded the following, please read before further accusation.


Jesus name is really Issa or Isa the son of Mary.
There you go again, telling me the so-called muslim 'truth', who is this 'issa'?
This is Mohammad's idea of what a muslim idea of Jesus would be, when your turn comes to leave this world & die, don't be surprised if you met the 'Christian' Jesus to judge you on the Last Day, you will be in good company; many will say." we knew you lord" & Jesus will say, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!", that's from the Gospel of Matthew 7:23 (Chapter 7, verse 23).

Jihad should not be confused with Holy War; the latter does not
exist in Islam nor will Islam allow its followers to be involved in a
Holy War
=============


Islam enters a country, destabalizes the government ...incites unrest , murders innocent civilians...(they are just "infidels" so this is allowed even demanded by the Quran.)
They marry the nationals, import all their relatives..extort, intimidate, coerce and threaten everyone and anyone.

Then they claim the country needs an indepentant state to support it's "muslim" population and continues murder, riot and forced religious indoctrination untill thier overthrow is complete.

They have followed this same pattern of violence in over two dozen countries in the last twenty years alone.

.

Randolfo, you still haven't answered my question. Do you believe in God? If yes, do you believe that the word of God was revealed to Jesus Christ?

Originally posted by bhudmaash
do you believe that the word of God was revealed to Jesus Christ?

The old testament was created long before Jesus and the new was written one generation after his death.

The bible repeats itself regarding one will reap what they sow.

The Koran relies heavily on defining the enemy of Islam and conquest.


Mohammad took a page from the bible

and modern neo cons are taking a page from the Koran.

Could the acts of Mozes or Jaweh Himself, releasing them catastrophic plagues against egypt to convince the pharao releasing "his people", be characterized as a terrorist act?

As far as the old books concerned he was a liberator, guess what we have more of these liberator nowadays, The egyptian pharao might be replaced with Bush or Sharon and Mozes with Bin laden....

Originally posted by bhudmaash
Randolfo, you still haven't answered my question. Do you believe in God?
Yes I do, but I do not believe in allah, which is the remnant of the moon god worshiped in Arabia, check it out for yourself. Ask yourself, who would benefit from changing the Word of God? Why satan of course, read the Hadith, is that the life of a righteous man? Did Mohammad have slaves, women & old men killed because they did not believe islam? Did he have Jewish Arab tribes massacred when they did not convert? Did he change the Qibla, from Jerusalem to Mecca, when Jews & Christians did not convert, but Arabs would? You think God got lost & forgot which direction he was at? You follow a trickster god, in Mexican & Native American beliefs, they have a similar god. He loves a good joke. And to trick people that think they are too smart & powerful.
If yes, do you believe that the word of God was revealed to Jesus Christ?
Yes I do, and I believe Mohammad was unsure if islam & his visions were true, why else would he have problems believing the first initial visions? In the letter to the Galatians, Paul warns the people not to believe different gospels, even if an angel of light gives it to them, that’s from the "Letter to the Galatians 1:6-9 (Chapter 1: verses 6 to 9). Throughout its history muslims wanted so much for islam to the only true religion, & want islam to be the only worldwide religion, & muslims dominant over all the peoples, especially over chrisitians, so I declare, if muslims are for true religion, then they must explore christianity and it's claims, find out if Jesus is going to be at the Judgment on the Last Day & why? Find out why all Jesus' early disciples fought with words, ideas, beliefs, conviction & prayer; while Mohammad & muslims have fought with swords, treachery & force, something christians didn't learn until Constantine the Roman Emperor converted the Empire. Ask yourself if it isn’t shirk to worship in the direction of a city, if God is the God of the Universe, then He is everywhere, so that you should pray in every direction, not just one, unless the idol that you call the Kabbah, stands for God’s throne? Then you have to ask yourself, where is God’s throne? Ask yourself why the Quran was changed, if it was from God? And why would Mohammad put in the “satanic verses”? Why did one of the first caliphs have to gather all the palm leaves, papyrus & memories from followers, to put together his 4 standard copies of the Quran? And why is the Quran in length order & not chronological order as originally given?
I state to all that true islam has been changed, from submission to God, to submission to idolatry; the idolatry of place (Mecca), race (Arabs), language (Arabic), items (Kabbah & the black stone), & person (Mohammad). Now bhudmaash, Do you believe that Jesus is the Christ & do you know what that means? Do you know what Easter, the Resurrection means? Do you believe Jesus when He said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”? That’s from the Gospel of John 14:6 (chapter 14: verse 6) or “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies: and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”? that’s from the Gospel of John 11:25-26 (chapter 11: verses 25 to 26).

Originally posted by Randolfo
Yes I do, but I do not believe in allah, which is the remnant of the moon god worshiped in Arabia, check it out for yourself. Ask yourself, who would benefit from changing the Word of God? Why satan of course, read the Hadith, is that the life of a righteous man? Did Mohammad have slaves, women & old men killed because they did not believe islam? Did he have Jewish Arab tribes massacred when they did not convert? Did he change the Qibla, from Jerusalem to Mecca, when Jews & Christians did not convert, but Arabs would? You think God got lost & forgot which direction he was at? You follow a trickster god, in Mexican & Native American beliefs, they have a similar god. He loves a good joke. And to trick people that think they are too smart & powerful.


I have short answers for you. The bible refers to god as Allahom, Eli, Elohim, so do christians worship the moon god???

You ask about the direction change, I answer, your bible tells you excatly the reason for the direction change.

Matt.21
[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mark.12
[10] And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
Luke.20
[17] And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

The stone was described in the bible as the Kaaba, the stone building that Abraham built and was later rejected.

[22] And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

To all you christians, where's god house mentioned in the bible to be built by Abraham, come on..straight answers please.

So what is your excuse for blaphseming about Muslims, their prophet, and their mosque? Oh and I forgot, blampheminig about your own god, Allah.....God is a German word that have pagan meaning in it.

Originally posted by TheVisitor
Islam enters a country, destabalizes the government ...incites unrest , murders innocent civilians...(they are just "infidels" so this is allowed even demanded by the Quran.)
They marry the nationals, import all their relatives..extort, intimidate, coerce and threaten everyone and anyone.
.

Islam has given countries great cultures and civilizations when the Europeans were in dark ages and living in trees. It is because muslims are not applying the religion of god correctly that they have destabilzed. Stop attributing falsehood to a religion that you know nothing about. Not every person that calls themselves muslims or christians are really so.

Originally posted by Randolfo
[SIZE=3][b] many will say." we knew you lord" & Jesus will say, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!", that's from the Gospel of Matthew 7:23 (Chapter 7, verse 23).

Beautifull. Now pose for a second and think of Jesus telling all the christians such words as you bring from the bible.. Jesus not wanting to speak to anyone who worshipped him instead of god. Jesus will say, I don't know you, because you didn't know god.

Sweet irony.

Randolfo

Would you summarize what you want to say exactly from all of this?

What do you want to prove?

Please, do not ask me to go back and read, what was written up there.

Thanks

Randolfo: Thanks for answering my questions. Now i'm going to try to bring this right back to basics, your obvious bias against Islam/Muslims/Mohamed is clouding your objectivity.
OK you say that you believe in God, and that the word of God was revealed to Jesus Christ. Good, well the SAME God that you (and other Christians believe in) is the SAME God that Jews believe in, is the SAME God that Muslims believe in. It's the SAME God...simple as that. The three holy scriptures of the Tora, Injeel (Bible) and the Koran that were revealed to Musa (Moses) Issa (Jesus) and Mohamed were FROM THE SAME SOURCE, from the SAME GOD, three books written by the same author if you will....I can't really make it any simpler than that. So to say well yes I do believe in the word of God as revealed to jesus, but not as revealed to Mohamed, is nonsensical and contradictory. What...when God revealed his word to Moses that was true....when he revealed it to Jesus that was true...but when he revealed it to Mohamed...that was false? What, was God having an "off day" when he revealed the Koran to Mohamed? Come on...get passed this blatant bias against Mohamed and Islam.
Next, a lot of your arguments against Mohamed/Islam seem to be due to the fact that you have a real problem with language.
Quote: "who is this Issa" ".....this is Mohamed's idea of what a Muslim idea of Jesus would be" The koran was revealed to Mohamed approx 500 years after Jesus Christ, the word "Jesus" didn't exist for Jesus, the Arabic word for "Jesus" IS "Issa" it's not Mohamed's IDEA of anything. Similarly, the Arabic word for God is ALLAH, AL-LAH from the Arabic meaning "the One", it's not a DIFFERENT God just a different word. For an obviously intelligent person, you're stumbling on basic principles. You're pressing your nose way up against the picture, hence that's preventing you from gaining a wider and proper perspective on the picture, step back a bit, and let go of the obvious problems and bias you have against Mohamed/Islam.

In the letter to the Galatians, Paul warns the people not to believe different gospels, even if an angel of light gives it to them, that’s from the "Letter to the Galatians 1:6-9 (Chapter 1: verses 6 to 9).

If a angel of light were to come to you with the truth of ALLAHs kingdom, you would listen to this Paul person?

I bear witness that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger.

I bear witness that there is no God but Allah, He neither begets nor is He begotten.

I am free of that which you worship and you are free from that which I worship.



This would be a great time to close this thread...

Next, a lot of your arguments against Mohamed/Islam seem to be due to the fact that you have a real problem with language.


I don't think it's a problem of language. It seems to stem from the fact that this person picked up a book which did not cast ISLAM in the best of lights but it seems that this was his intention to begin with {if you had wanted to see ISLAM in the proper light, you would have selected books which cast ISLAM in that light.}

Can one make the blind see if they refuse to see? Then what is the since in following a course which will only prove to be a waste of time in trying to explain to these what ISLAM is? Is it our job to change these minds? I don't thing it possible. What is there after truth but falsehood?

If Jesus {PBUH} were to be sent back in our lifetime, I fear that the majority of those who claim to follow him, will surely deny him.

Originally posted by dkb218
If Jesus {PBUH} were to be sent back in our lifetime, I fear that the majority of those who claim to follow him, will surely deny him.

Noone would ever know the answer to that question. It might surprise you to see Sharon next to you in heaven....We will never know what is truly in people hearts and how god will judge...will we?

Buhdmaash

The three holy scriptures of the Tora, Injeel (Bible) and the Koran that were revealed to Musa (Moses) Issa (Jesus) and Mohamed were FROM THE SAME SOURCE, from the SAME GOD, three books written by the same author if you will....I can't really make it any simpler than that. So to say well yes I do believe in the word of God as revealed to jesus, but not as revealed to Mohamed, is nonsensical and contradictory. What...when God revealed his word to Moses that was true....when he revealed it to Jesus that was true...but when he revealed it to Mohamed...that was false? What, was God having an "off day" when he revealed the Koran to Mohamed?


As much as I share an opion with you regarding Randolfo ridiciouless biasedness , i must say this is not where he errors . He simply does not believe the Qu'ran to be the Word of G-d , he believes Abrahams tale of prophecy ended with Christ . There is nothing unlogical about that . For example , Rael has seen his makers so he says . They are aliens and it is them who sended all prophets Muhammad , Issa , Mussa etc . Would a muslim consider this god of Rael , to be the same as the God of Abraham , the God of Mussa , the God of Issa , and the God of Muhammad ?
Rael does . He says it was Elohim , is he now agreeing with the Jews m or vica versa ?


Quote: "who is this Issa" ".....this is Mohamed's idea of what a Muslim idea of Jesus would be" The koran was revealed to Mohamed approx 500 years after Jesus Christ, the word "Jesus" didn't exist for Jesus, the Arabic word for "Jesus" IS "Issa" it's not Mohamed's IDEA of anything. Similarly, the Arabic word for God is ALLAH, AL-LAH from the Arabic meaning "the One", it's not a DIFFERENT God just a different word. For an obviously intelligent person, you're stumbling on basic principles. You're pressing your nose way up against the picture, hence that's preventing you from gaining a wider and proper perspective on the picture, step back a bit, and let go of the obvious problems and bias you have against Mohamed/Islam.


Apparently Randolfo does not understand that the Arabs were in relevant numbers Christians , while there still are Christian Arabs today . You must understand his point of view could not be the same as the Arabic point of view , whitch is historical as a people who had 3 religions ending with Islam .
Jesus and Issa are equalivent , they are both NOT Yshua , and that was the first name Jesus/Issa received as a Hebrew Israelite . Later Arabs and Romans translated the name .
But now for your Al-Lah theory . I have never heard of Al-Lah =the one , please elaborate perhaps its interesting shit since since that might be a mathematical opening I was looking for .
There are as far as I know there are 2 ways to understand Allah in the relevance discussed in this thread . The arabic linguistic understanding of Al-Illah , meaning The God literary . Somehow the -lil- has become l , thus u have ALLH (Alif Lam Lam Hah) .
The other is regarding its origin , coming from the Baybolonian Gods , through babylonian Baal , and also as the Meccan Hubal (God of the Moon within the 360 pantheon) , followed by another 360 God , Allah .
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20671

ofcourse Randolfo already not believing it is the same monotheistic phenomena Christians and Jews speak of , he would argue the meaning of Allah through its origins , but hey.......if I would go back to the Origins of Christ and the virgin Mary , I would end up with Ancient Kemetian Mythology/Spirituality
, and that wouldnt be as sad as a linguistic arguement even , it would be showing the entire structure of certain aspects of Christian philosophy .

randolfo

Islam & any form of Christianity have nothing to do with each other, stop trying to tell Christians what they really believe. Do you want me to tell you what you what muslims should believe, why its islamic Christianity, Christian submission, you know that all this years you muslims have been deceived, Mohammad was a Christian, but after he died, his followers corrupted both the Koran & his teaching, why he was dead, so his followers didn't think he would mind, after all he was dead.


Actually Muhammad worshipped the MoonGod Allah within the 360 pantheon of the Ka'aba before Islam was given to him by the Al-Illah of Abraham , because this was accustomed by his Quraish Tribe :

http://www.saudinf.com/main/b61.htm

Research your premisses before you start fantasising about them in logical ways .
Muhammad was in no way a Christian , he lived the Islamic way of life , perhaps you did not know it but Islam was there in many ways but monotheistical before Al-Illah of Abraham spoke to Muhammad . The ka'aba was there before Muhammad and still is the holiest place in Islam , Salaat was made before Muhammad only not Qu'ranically , it was made for the Moongod of the Ka'aba , the follower of Hubal : Allah


Stop talking about islam & its moon god, why do you think you have crescent on every mosque? Allah & his daughters, look it up, why do you think there was the 'satanic verses'?


If you know about the Moon God , why do u stop the research before Muhammad and Islam through the Qu'ran came ? They left the moongod , and took Abrahams God .
Why do u confuse culture and religion ? And why do you refuse to see their unity when former culture and spirituality heritages into the new religion ? I understand your misunderstandings , you simply believe they dont know they worship Moongod , but is you who doesnt know they left moongod alone to take the same damn God you believed in before they did so .
Look at Salaat , Muslims make Salaat , the pagans praid as well , the pagans praid toward the Ka'aba becaus the MoonGod was located their , the Muslims learned that it wasnt MoonGod why the ka'aba was important but because of Al-Illah of Abraham . Does this change the fact that they used to do the same for the MoonGod ? No . Does it matter , No .
So why do u bring in the mosques ? And what are these satanic verses you speak of , regarding Allah and his daughters . Are you now again referring to the MoonGod Allah , or to Abrahams Allah ?

I also wanted to ad a nice thingie on Christianity , since u obviously are fond of the Latin translation of Abrahams part 2 , Christianity . How about the latin word Deos , originating from the Greek word Theos , originitaing from the Greek Pagan God ZEUS .
I guess ur a pagan now .

If we are gonna bitch about names , Islam Christianity and Judaism are all wrong , because the God of Abraham was called SIN by the semites , ha......how ironic , before that it was NANNA .
Oh.......interesting how NANNA was the MOONGOD of UR , In Abrahams Sumer .

Y'all a bunch of pagans to begin with (Abrahamists) , if we are to trace monotheism into linguistical paganism .


the day that Muslims & christians will be the same, is when you all convert to christianity before the last day


:eek:

heflores

But, as a muslim, I find myself dwelling negatively over the fact that the christians believe the Jesus is god. This is completely off track for a muslim to think. How can a muslim understand this prespective of christianity without getting angry? While it's entrenched in us muslims that we should never associate anything with our ONE object of worship, the creator, god.


And that short-sightedness and determination in already HAVING the knowledge , is what makes Islam as it is today just as bad as Christianity and Judaism . Well.....the Jews at least have some strong mysticism left from their former pagan ways . And already do u associate with the one God , does a name not define this deiti , if I would follow Islamic ways to its fullest , i would not even pronounce the name of Allah , because I cannot define Allah in sound , nor linguistical meaning , nor should I write it because I could not deifen it in caligraphy and literacy . Tradition has set a limti on understanding Allah , in a hypocritical fashion where it is not the respect of this God that is attained , but a definition of the God they wish to define .
I dont see difference in Orthodox Christian Icons and Islamic Caligraphy , although islam would call the Christian blasphemous .

heflores

How do you truly coexist in a civil manner while you think that your nice neighbor and your trustworthy kids soccer coach has believes that will send them to hell later. How can different religions coexist.


They cant of there would be a logical approach to them , but ofcourse their meaning is only that whitch is given by its leaders , this no logical approach is welcomed .
Religion does nothing but divide .
If religion comes from Allah , and Allah is one , how can religion divide ?

randolfo

The more I read it, the more it seems false, BTW, why did they change the order that the Quran was printed, from chronological (when it as first reveled), to longest-to-shortest suras?


Lets not try to judge Qu'ran negative in order to gain a posititive understanding of the Bible , from an originality point of view .

visitor

Islam enters a country, destabalizes the government ...incites unrest , murders innocent civilians...(they are just "infidels" so this is allowed even demanded by the Quran.)
They marry the nationals, import all their relatives..extort, intimidate, coerce and threaten everyone and anyone.
Then they claim the country needs an indepentant state to support it's "muslim" population and continues murder, riot and forced religious indoctrination untill thier overthrow is complete.
They have followed this same pattern of violence in over two dozen countries in the last twenty years alone.


Why do equalize Islam with Muslims , and specifically Sunni or Shiaa Muslims . And where does the Qu'ran say u can enter a country to kill infidels ? And the last 20 years ? Are u seriously speaking of Islam , and then choose an era , and then u choose an era where Islam is not quite even one bit influential ?
How silly


Noone would ever know the answer to that question.


This only shows the correctness of the statement of dkb , surely if Muhammad or Mussa were sent they would be denied , for that is what religion does with those who are not equally worthy in the eyes of this religion .

Originally posted by Allahs_Mathematics

heflores
And that short-sightedness and determination in already HAVING the knowledge , is what makes Islam as it is today just as bad as Christianity and Judaism . , i would not even pronounce the name of Allah , because I cannot define Allah in sound , nor linguistical meaning , nor should I write it because I could not deifen it in caligraphy and literacy .

Thanks man, and I was not even speaking to you, did you get a nice ego boost on my behalf there. It must have felt really good and self rightous, go ahead and keep it...it's all yours that one.

Look first there was Jaweh, consider this version 1.0

Then came Jezus and Mohammed, overhearing them stories round campfires and decided to make their own tweaked version 1.2 allahpha.
Finally Luther and the Sji'tes came to update to version 2.0

Still arguments about who is holding the copyrights and the land that comes with it.

I think a whole reformat is in order. Then we can install the god is the same no matter how you worship him 1.0 alpha release.

Better to reformat without ever reintroducing the imaginary-god moral-copout virus.

Islam, Judaism, & christianity all follow the old testimate and worship the god of abraham. As far as I am concerned they are merely sects of the same religion.

Originally posted by dkb218
I don't think it's a problem of language. It seems to stem from the fact that this person picked up a book which did not cast ISLAM in the best of lights but it seems that this was his intention to begin with {if you had wanted to see ISLAM in the proper light, you would have selected books which cast ISLAM in that light.}

Can one make the blind see if they refuse to see? Then what is the since in following a course which will only prove to be a waste of time in trying to explain to these what ISLAM is? Is it our job to change these minds? I don't thing it possible. What is there after truth but falsehood?

If Jesus {PBUH} were to be sent back in our lifetime, I fear that the majority of those who claim to follow him, will surely deny him.

dkb218, I agree with you, however there there is something about this thread, or more specifically Randolfo's perception of Mohamed/Islam which slightly concerns me, which is this: misconception, misunderstanding and negative stereotypes of Islam are usually the domain of the ignorant. Much as I differ in his opinions, I wouldn't say Randolfo is ignorant, on the contrary he seems to be quite familiar with the Koran and the Hadith, hence my perplexion and slight concern at the place he seems to be regarding his feelings towards Islam and the Prophet Mohamed.

Different apples on the same apple tree arguing about apple quality.

No argument on my side, I have no problem in acknowledging the quality of all the apples, Randolfo however seems to think one of the apples is rotten.:m: :confused:

Originally posted by Allahs_Mathematics

As much as I share an opion with you regarding Randolfo ridiciouless biasedness ,
Thank you Mr. Unbiased himself, coming from you. its a great compliment

i must say this is not where he errors . He simply does not believe the Qu'ran to be the Word of G-d , he believes Abrahams tale of prophecy ended with Christ . There is nothing unlogical about that . Thanks, you are right, otherwise I would have to be a mormon under the prophecy of Joseph Smith

For example , Rael has seen his makers so he says . They are aliens and it is them who sended all prophets Muhammad , Issa , Mussa etc . Would a muslim consider this god of Rael , to be the same as the God of Abraham , the God of Mussa , the God of Issa , and the God of Muhammad ?
Rael does . He says it was Elohim , is he now agreeing with the Jews m or vica versa ? it was convient for Mohammad to say he was the 'seal of the prophets', but I think the Apostle John was after "Revelations", no adding on, otherwise we need to follow Rael, the Sun god?


Apparently Randolfo does not understand that the Arabs were in relevant numbers Christians , while there still are Christian Arabs today . You must understand his point of view could not be the same as the Arabic point of view , whitch is historical as a people who had 3 religions ending with Islam . actually, I know that there were christian, Jewish & Pagan tribes, also the Searchers (Hanif). see the history, hadith for the outcome of the jewish bani- clans


Jesus and Issa are equalivent , they are both NOT Yshua , and that was the first name Jesus/Issa received as a Hebrew Israelite . Later Arabs and Romans translated the name . Issa is no more Jesus, than David Koresh is King David, I know the difference


But now for your Al-Lah theory . I have never heard of Al-Lah
Actually Muhammad worshipped the MoonGod Allah within the 360 pantheon of the Ka'aba before Islam was given to him by the Al-Illah of Abraham , because this was accustomed by his Quraish Tribe : I know


Research your premisses before you start fantasising about them in logical ways .
Muhammad was in no way a Christian , he lived the Islamic way of life , I was beieng sarcastic, saying the say thing about Mohammad, that muslims say about Jesus


perhaps you did not know it but Islam was there in many ways but monotheistical before Al-Illah of Abraham spoke to Muhammad . The ka'aba was there before Muhammad and still is the holiest place in Islam , Salaat was made before Muhammad only not Qu'ranically , it was made for the Moongod of the Ka'aba , the follower of Hubal : Allah
I know, you can not turn a pagan symbol into a holy site, just by saying it, it's still shirk

If you know about the Moon God , why do u stop the research before Muhammad and Islam through the Qu'ran came ? They left the moongod , and took Abrahams God .
You mean, that is what they think, it's still Mr. Cresent Moon

randolfo

Thank you Mr. Unbiased himself, coming from you. its a great compliment


Hey.....Allah knows best .


it was convient for Mohammad to say he was the 'seal of the prophets', but I think the Apostle John was after "Revelations", no adding on, otherwise we need to follow Rael, the Sun god?


I dont think so . We have reached a time where no #4 could become that popular , instead of that we have had some interesting merges , revivals , and overal-theologies . Till this day there is no #4 , and I do not think there enough potential unbelievers left to create #4 . And just as Christianity forbids #3 , so does Islam forbid #4 , so that leaves out that kind of mass-conversion . Id say lets use nr #3 to create something that rules all u faith-havers out .

But hows Rael the sungod , Rael is that dude who said he spoke to aliens who told him they sent Mussa and the rest of the gang , and now he wants an embassy in jerusalem (He actually asked Sharon for permission , some 20 times or so)


Issa is no more Jesus, than David Koresh is King David, I know the difference


U should here the jews speak of Yshua , or is that another as well ? They dont seem so happy with your God , and it was THEIR Yshua , more than YOUR Jesus , or MY Issa . But again u dont seem to understand the linguistic difference . Do you notm understand that all 3 point to the same person . People #1 say his mom was a whore and he was a fake messiah , people nr #2 call him God , while people nr #3 call him prophet . Perhaps you think you own Jesus by Christianity , Jesus was no damn Christian , but a Jew . Now I understand you seem to disagree what the Qu'ran says about Jesus , thus U conclude it was not Issa . Could they not be wrong then , simply misunderstanding Jesus ? If its from meaning or describing you speak that they misunderstand Jesus , and thus its not Issa , you are being loigically flalascious . If you have some genetical reason they are 2 different people , then please tell me who this Issa fellow is . Was he not the son of Mary ?


You mean, that is what they think, it's still Mr. Cresent Moon


Again you are being unlogical , but that is because you reason from religion and not logics , too bad the 2 aint quite the same .
What they "think" . Your god is invisible , all they can do to reach him is "THINK" . They cannot THINK one God to be invisible while they are wrong because its another God that is invisible , the"real invisible God . Do you not know the MoonGod was a sculpture ? I have one MoonGod myself , actually I even worship my MoonGod Allah , and I as the Moon God worshipper do not recognize these people with their invisible God that reminds me a hell of a lot of your God (same personal qualities , blablabla) , as my fellow-moongod worshippers . So who are they worshipping , not MY God , my God isnt invisble , I have it right here .

But forget about all this bullshit , your reply only shows your incredible hypocriticism . Why do you not respond to the critics I have given you , is it because you do not care (then i wonder why u r reading this right now) , is it because you do not know how , or are u simply ignoring their presence because your arguments fall into pieces when even slighlty glancing at them ?

Im glad to re-post them :

Allah

The Virgin Born
if I would go back to the Origins of Christ and the virgin Mary , I would end up with Ancient Kemetian Mythology/Spirituality


I suggest you read some pre-christian scriptures the kemetians had on this phenomena of baring children while you are virgin , u might learn some things about your own mythology .


The arabic linguistic understanding of Al-Illah , meaning The God literary . Somehow the -lil- has become l , thus u have ALLH (Alif Lam Lam Hah) .
The other is regarding its origin , coming from the Baybolonian Gods , through babylonian Baal , and also as the Meccan Hubal (God of the Moon within the 360 pantheon) , followed by another 360 God , Allah .


Do you not understand the difference between MoonGod Allah (Hubal) , and Al-Illah ? Allah=Al-Illah

Pagan God?

I also wanted to ad a nice thingie on Christianity , since u obviously are fond of the Latin translation of Abrahams part 2 , Christianity . How about the latin word Deos , originating from the Greek word Theos , originitaing from the Greek Pagan God ZEUS .
I guess ur a pagan now .


Oh well , lets ignore your pagan GOD .

Sin?
If we are gonna bitch about names , Islam Christianity and Judaism are all wrong , because the God of Abraham was called SIN by the semites , ha......how ironic , before that it was NANNA .
Oh.......interesting how NANNA was the MOONGOD of Ur , In Abrahams Sumer .


And lets ignore Abrahams Pagan God as well while we at it , it would be a SIN otherwise .


Better to reformat without ever reintroducing the imaginary-god moral-copout virus.


Nah.....why reformat ? just kill that virus .

I think this is where Randolfo is getting his info from:

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-koran-bible.htm



:eek:

....am I right Randolfo?

:bugeye:

Originally posted by bhudmaash
I think this is where Randolfo is getting his info from:

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-koran-bible.htm

:eek:

....am I right Randolfo?

:bugeye:
No, I didn't, I have read other books, articles, the Quran & personal experience, but thanks for giving me another source to look up, BTW, did you read it?

Yeah.....I fancied a good laugh.

It's the kind of site that Hitler would have bookmarked.....he was a Christian fundamentalist right? :cool:

Great to see people refuting all these wonderfull points , dont u Randolfo ?

And to add a bit to the confusion , remember :

The arabic linguistic understanding of Al-Illah , meaning The God literary . Somehow the -lil- has become l , thus u have ALLH (Alif Lam Lam Hah) .

How about if I tell you the proper way to spell out Allah of the Moon is Alif Lam Lam Alif (ALLA) , and not Alif Lam Lam Hah (ALLH) , the Allah of the Qu'ran .

hm..........

but hey what do I know

so you're siding with Randolfo??:bugeye:

bhudmaash

so you're siding with Randolfo??


Excuse me ?

Ill blaim communication as an independant sovereign error , Im sure u simply misunderstood , although Id rather misunderstand what I just said right now than what I have posted about this Christian (Randolfo if I may ask , what Christian sect , excuse me , movement do you belong?)

No I was actually doing you a favor proving my prescious Moon God has little to do with your invisible Allah you interpret from the Qu'ran , as being Al-Illah (The God) of Abraham .

And besides that I was refuting Rando's statements all the time , this was just a nice finishing touch . But I bet I know what u misunderstood . I bet U thought that as I said :
Great to see people refuting all these wonderfull points , dont u Randolfo ? : U thought I was actually referring to you when I say people , and I do , but it was more of a "remark" to Rando but Im sure he doesnt know what the fuck I was talking about either .

Well its all good ........... Al Illah La Alla....... :eek:
U know why ? La Illaha Ill Allah (ALLH)

...my mistake! :)