The bible tells the story of the birth of Jesus, the next time he is mentioned he is around thirty years old. So why wasn't Jesus's childhood mentioned, or what he did in his teens. This has always puzzled me.
As the story goes he travelled around Asia and India, getting influenced by yogis and babas, and smoking this and smoking that and coming up with a new religion. He was backpacking through the eastern world. Jesus was a hippie.
Nah, that’s just popular gossip. The truth seems to be that he started spouting about weird dreams and claiming to talk with a god, so quite rightly he was committed to an asylum for the insane. Unfortunately he eventually escaped and convinced enough crackpots to follow his delusions that an insane religion was created.
Your version really sucks Cris, mine is much better. Your version is popular antireligious propaganda. Not that I blame you for spreading it, but that's still what it is. My version has proof, in books..Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!. etc. Don't ask me in what books and who wrote them, that's just what I've heard. But others besides me have also heard of this story and the attaching proofs, so I prefer to believe this one. Your version just seems to have a too modern concept to apply to the timeperiod when it all happened. Did they really have insane asylums back then? I thought they just stoned the fellows. :bugeye:
I can't remember much about the 1980s, they were my drinking years. Can anyone who spotted me around that time tell me what I was doing? PS I know this is an extremely loaded question. And I liked Cris' verson of events.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I have to sar, cris, your a tad bit negative. You doen't have to call the people crack pots, because it doesn't make your proofless point any stronger. That goes for all of you. If you don't know(you don't), then don't say that its what happened. Say that its what you heard. og!
Hey, on the smashing pumpkins philo board you used to hearing dumb shit thats ment to be taken seriously. Remember, I only recently switched.
Bebelina, I’ve heard those rumors as well. They must be pure fantasy. Leading historians have yet to establish any reliable evidence that a Jesus as described in the bible ever existed. To then claim that he traveled around the world and to give specific locations is way way beyond any degree of credibility. The stories of the birth are also apocryphal. The virgin birth idea appears to come from much earlier pagan or Jewish myths, or it was a miss-translation of Hebrew where the terms for young-woman and virgin are almost identical. Mark, the original gospel stories, doesn’t mention the birth, that came from Mathew and Luke which are largely considered copies of Mark with significant imaginative embellishments. The birth myth was included so that it would appear to confirm the fulfillment of an OT prophecy. But no one knows the date. The claims for the date conflict with other facts that put the alleged birth at some +/- 12 years. And what about Jesus being from Nazareth? It doesn’t look like the biblical town of Nazareth existed at the time of the alleged Jesus either. Nazareth is not mentioned even once in the entire Old Testament, nor do any ancient historians or geographers mention it before the beginning of the fourth century. The Talmud, although it names 63 Galilean towns, knows nothing of Nazareth. Josephus, who wrote extensively about Galilee (a region roughly the size of Rhode Island) and conducted military operations back and forth across the tiny territory in the last half of the first century, mentions Nazareth not even once -- although he does mention by name 45 other cities and villages of Galilee. This is even more telling when one discovers that Josephus does mention Japha, a village which is just over a mile from present-day Nazareth! Josephus tells us that he was occupied there for some time. There is a lot more on this issue………………. So pretty much everything about the early alleged Jesus is highly questionable and more than likely quite fictitious. This mirrors the latter years as well, just wonderful myths. The middle years are anyone’s guess. ...edited to correct an error NT > OT
I believe he did exist for real, as a real person, with a biological human father. Although he could have been the son of God in a spiritual sense, as we all are children of the universe and so on.. Why is it so hard to find evidence of his existance, when we can fairly estimate the birth of the universe? Maybe the town of Nazareth was ad hoc, so what? Many things in the bible is, but that doesn't say much of what really happened back then, and what the true sorce of the myth of the person Jesus was. So I will stick to my version, until any evidence of the opposite is brought to my attention. He was a hippie, he had a following, he had learnt eastern healing and the effect of herbs. He may have been clairvoyant. Me MAY have been an alien. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Bebelina, Is this because you don’t mind being gullible or is it that you enjoy popular fiction so much that you cannot tell the difference between reality and fantasy? It is easy to be a sheep, to go along with a majority, where there is the idea that if so many people believe something then it must be true. The problem there is that most people do act like sheep and never look for their own answers but ask their neighbor instead. But the neighbor is usually just another sheep. And so myths are propagated and become widespread. The truly independent and rational thinker will seek to find the original source of the information and conduct his or her own critical evaluation of whatever facts might be available. The only facts about Jesus are that there are no authoritative or credible records of his existence. Note that there are significant records about other historical figures of his time and before his time and after, but for there to be no meaningful records of allegedly the most powerful being in the universe is way beyond credibility. Do you see yourself as a child because you feel yourself to be immature or do you lock onto the idea of something fatherly because you feel insecure? I’d see myself as a student of the universe since I am painfully aware that there is so much that we don’t know. Was that rhetorical? Trying to find evidence for something that didn’t exist is always going to be impossible. That should make you seriously re-consider what you believe. A very unfortunate attitude. This is the same as assuming an accused person is guilty until proven innocent. It must always be the onus of the accuser and claimant to prove their case first. Christians have not yet made a credible case. Cris
But Cris, what about that coffin that was recently discovered? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mjesuskill.html Copied from this thread: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=8351
First of all, no, I do not mind being gullable, I quite enjoy it, thank you. I do also enjoy your little sheep theory. The only problem with it, is that it applies to your worldview only. If the majority of the people are sheep because they do not dig after physical evidence for every single event that comes to their attention, then what is those who do? Who is the animal who keeps his head in the sand all the day? Looking for...what? A piece of a bone that should spell out the beloved "facts"? Or is it just a snack for the feeble mind? At least the sheep walk around a little and perhaps get a better view of the big picture. A more pleasant one anyway. And what is the point with life, really, if there can be no pleasure involved? Sure one can examine bits of what one perceives more carefully at times, but what would be the need of it here? I don't care if Jesus really existed "for real" or not. I'm quite content with believing he did. And if enough people believe the same thing, then as you said yourself, it becomes true. Do you believe THAT is true? If you don't believe that, then you believe the opposite, which is the more likely to turn out to be true , for you. You see? There is no escape from your own perception. Who are you accusing? Do you have a credible case? The word child is here used as a metaphore, pointing out the fact that it is from the universe we spring. It has gave us our lives. Without it, we would not exist, as we know existance.
YKJ, Yes wonderfully convenient. In such perfect condition too, and has just the right number and type of names and relationships to satisfy anyone's doubts. Now if someone can place it at the right place and time and the right people then perhaps it will have some real credibility.
Bebelina, Nice riposte. I was concerned you might be upset with me. The sheep: There are some great statistics around that show that 95% of the world’s population are failures. For example those who watch movies are failures. The idea here is if you are sufficiently successful to be in a movie then you are not a failure, and everyone who is watching are the failures. The poor 95% watching the wealthy 5%. Try the scientist who discovers that the world is not flat. Try the scientist who develops antibiotics and reduces suffering and death in the world for billions of people. Try the scientist who developed electric light. People who think for themselves and seek knowledge, make things happen so that you can enjoy your pointless sheep-like existence of consuming and never contributing. Ahh but they don’t – they just watch the sheep next to them, and fall off the same cliff. The whole point of life is pleasure. Why do you think I don’t seek pleasure? Why only at times? I do it as a matter of course through a lifetime of deliberate discipline. Why would anyone be content with being wrong at any time? What is the value of ever being wrong? WHAT? I think you have misunderstood me and have misquoted me. Truth isn’t determined by a majority vote. Have you been with tiassa and used some of his drugs? I have no idea what that gibberish meant. Go sober up and explain yourself woman. Nothing gave us anything. The universe has no say in the matter. Humanizing the inanimate sounds like the desperate scream of someone lonely.
Kiz, Sorry my friend but you are unaware of the history here. I have the greatest respect for both tiassa and Bebelina. I tease Bebelina because she and I see things very differently but also because I think she enjoys a little jousting. And I’m sure tiassa would have no problem offering someone some of his recreational ‘candies’ if they were to ask. There is little seriousness in my tone, but I think some truth. Of course and some people can think rationally and some do not. So all types of belief are covered. If better education could be made more available and widespread then we could significantly reduce the irrational and achieve a safer and better world. But more scientists are atheists than in any other discipline. I suspect you might be correct but being intelligent does not necessarily mean knowing how to think logically. Someone of lower intelligence who has a solid grasp of logic would be able solve apparently complex problems where the uneducated intelligent person would fail. Being able to think does not necessarily mean you know how to think. See the explanation above. That appears to be your perception. I know more than some and a lot less than others. It is all relative. As any good military general will tell you; a thorough knowledge of your enemy will significantly increase your chances of victory. Religion is one of the most detrimental aspects of our society. It’s elimination and replacement with a more rational thought system will enable a better society to arise. To encourage people to think more clearly is not a waste of time. The attempts to answer the irrationality of the religionists on these forums, has helped me enormously to improve my own abilities to think more clearly. It is said more people become atheists because they read the bible than through any other cause. I once had a friend who decided to train as a priest. He was very unsure whether he wanted to attend the training college since he had been told the dropout rate was near 70%. The reason seemed to be that once the scriptures are studied in depth and critically then one’s faith becomes sorely tested. He did not want to lose his faith hence his hesitation to learn more of his religion. Religion is a waste of time, but then one could say writing fiction novels is a waste of time. The fun is in writing and considering the reasoning of others. Cris
