This is a thread about all those posters who appear to have disappeared...but we still miss them and wonder what happened to them.

MIA

1. Kunax - MIA - update: went for greener pastures
2. Chagur - MIA
3. kmguru - MIA
4. Banshee - MIA
5. strgrl - MIA
6. Backslash 777 - MIA
7. BlueSoulRobot - MIA
8. BigBlueHead - MIA

what happened to our tiger (kunax)?

Wow. You're right. Haven't seen him post in quite some time.
While not the most scientifically minded of our members he is certainly one of the more entrenched into our little family.
Kunax! Come home!!

Here kitty kitty kitty.........

Could be exams or work or something. Everyone goes through phases

Chagur, kmguru, Banshee, strgrl, Backslash 777, BlueSoulRobot

Mustn't forget the BigBlueHead. I have seen him posting and browsing very occasionally, but he has been absent most of the time I've been a member although I have heard much about him. Well. I've heard he was a smart motherfucker anyway.

Kunax,

Come back here!

What would be the equivalent of a mouse -- what is in the same proportion to a tiger as a mouse is in proportion to a domestic cat? A monkey, perhaps?
We need to lure him somehow.



* * *

Yes, BigBlueHead ...

One of the few truly brave men. He left, this place was much too dismal for him. Or something.
He is dearly missed.

What would be the equivalent of a mouse -- what is in the same proportion to a tiger as a mouse is in proportion to a domestic cat

A nutria, maybe.

But that's not very complimentary.

http://www.nationaltrappers.com/Nutria.gif (http://www.nationaltrappers.com/nutria.html)
Nutria: Once described as, "A rat crossed with a sable."

Fourteen inches from nose to base of tail? (chortle!) I almost hit one with a car once upon a time. It was over a foot tall and at least two feet from nose to base.

Of course, there's a habitat problem, but how exacting are we getting here?

Here is why BBH is gone. I hope it wouldn't upset him that I post a private message:

No one posts like they used to Wes, so don't worry about that. I admit that the lighthouse keeper aspect of my participation here burned itself out quite some time ago, but I found that there were a few other effects that I hadn't counted on.

Often, a conflict will arise here about ideology. For me, there was one a while ago where I argued long and hard with some joker about whether intelligence was heritable and whether social success was heritable thereby. He argued that it was; I argued that it probably was not and that his sources definitely did not prove it. I argued that he was trying to prove the old conservative saw that poor people are poor because "God hates them". He argued that he was only trying to advance the cause of science, and how dare I. It was quite a fight, but at some point I realized that this guy was arguing from some pretty extreme esoterica (and misinterpreting them as well) and that I was never going to change the world, even if I changed this guy's mind, which was unlikely at best.

This was the point: extreme futility, meaningless struggle, no reward, and an effort that leaves no evidence that it was ever made.

And so castles made of sand... melt into the sea... eventually.

It can hurt you to engage in futile efforts, even if you feel like it's improving yourself; if you keep doing the same things, you'll stop learning eventually. It was seriously time to do something new, and it still is. I think it's time for you too there Wes... after all, you're all like "I dunno, I have this logico-philosophical tract all in my head, and it describes the whoooole world in fairly minute detail, but do you think anyone would read it? I mean, who writes logico-philosophical tracts these days? I mean other than Wittgenstein." Honestly, why wait until you're 50 to write it? I'm pretty sure you have an answer for everything already, and I have some pretty solid evidence that people don't necessarily get smarter when they get older. The world is full of books that are totally dull and still somehow got published despite the fact that no one reads them. At worst the Principia Weslia will end up on the shelf in someone's parents' basement. However, there are enough highly popular metaphysics books out there called things like "Time is a Walrus" and "I Hate Einstein" that I'm sure your grand unified theory is at least as interesting as the popular ones.

Regarding time, I can only say one thing with certainty... time goes by whether you do anything or not. Don't wait for something to happen - do something. I'm sure the wesmorrisbabe would be willing to proofread for you.

After all, don't you want to look back in twenty years and see if you really did get any smarter in all that time?

Blue

Wes... I still read here occasionally, but I have decided not to take part in any discussions; this is for a few reasons.

*sigh*

Oh sure, flout your disciplined, sensible perspective why don't you. ;)

The first is that, despite my vast appreciation for the sound of my own voice, I found that I was starting to sound repetitive even to myself. That was a concern to me, because I would like to think that I develop over time, and evidence to the contrary causes me distress.
Hmm.. yes I understand. For me that's just part of the cycle of increasing levels (so I tell me). When I get to sounding repetetive, It's a sign that I'm close to changing levels. Either that or I'm simply rationalizing what is really my appreciation for the sound of my own words... though I don't post like I used to. I think it's because I had a lot of conceptual blockage that I had to get out... but now for the most part it's out and so what I spew now is just whatever happens along the stream, rather than the gush of the dam.

The second reason is that I have a real sense that my words are wasted here, not on specific people but in a general sense; part of the reason for my repetitiveness mentioned above is the fact that I constantly grind the same axe in the hope that someone will eventually... do... whatever they would do with an axe in this weak metaphor. When others don't listen even when I repeat things I can't anymore pretend that they just didn't hear me, and I must perforce graduate to the idea that they just don't agree and aren't willing to discuss it. This is a total killer for conversation.
That's so prolific though, as to completely stifle all your sciforums interactions? Hmm.. well, I can't say you're wrong because you aren't, but there is a smidge of real communication I think.. and a smidge of that unknown transferrence of goodness that people absorb from your words, but you never hear abou tit. I can say, that I personally found your perspective educational and constructive to my own.

Lastly, this place has changed and it creeps me out. It's sort of stressful that they started censoring, since I'm not sure what that accomplishes except to make people write Feck, but it worries me more that the actual people have changed, the range of their expression becoming somewhat alien.
You calling me out? Hehe. ;) Xenophobe! Yah I understand and feel simililarly. Still, you're one of my all-time favorites. It's so freakin nice to see you here again... I can't help but ask that you participate. Then again, I can't help but understand your reluctance to do so.

I mean, yeah, wanderer is still here and still a ramblin' man, but he kind of stumbled when someone accused him of Frenchy Postmodernism. Xev is still sorta biting by usenet standards, but compared to her usual self she's kinda becoming a big old Nordic Marshmallü. I know it's a funny auld world and we can't expect people to remain the same, but I think, as you say, my time here is done.
Sure. Growth. I get it. I have to say I think I've grown here. I'm selfish about my posts. It's more about me, working through a bunch of ideas that I really needed to work on, and having a sounding board or few with which to assist. Admittedly though, there are few with whom I feel their feedback is actually constructive. On the other hand, it's interesting to me to see how people react to what I say... though again often it seems that a shallow contemplation is all most people afford the posts of other people. I suppose maybe they're selfish about their posts too... so maybe in the end it's a bunch of mental masturbation. As the glutton I am, I suppose that's okay.

Didja ever think, Wes, that the amount of text that you've written here would make a damn big book?

I have! I've also contemplated whether or not anyone would care to read it. ;) I have my doubts about that. I think much of what I've written is repetetive and hard to follow if you aren't me. I've probably written a few good lines, but cherry picking over 6000 posts seems daunting.

'Ja ever think that, if you were trying to teach people something, maybe a book might have done a better job?

Yeah, but I'm trying to learn at the same time. That and a number of times I've sat down and considered if I were to write a book, what would it be about? How could I organize it? I've always gotten stuck at that part and haven't taken it further. My old long-term plan called for me to write my "world according to wes" book sometime in my 40s or 50s.

I think I have some important things to say, but I'm not sure that anyone's interested in them, or if I have the capability to organize them in a meaningful way, or in a way that communicates what I really mean, or in a way that entices people to read it. Like you say, people have their world-view already intact. I'm not sure what I can do to intentionally affect that as a book. There's also the matter of whether or not I know what the hell I'm talking about. I feel like I'm quite good at this whole philosophy thing... philosophy of mind, language, etc... but it could very well be that I'm blowing smoke up my own ass, and that I really don't compare well to those who have invested real study in the areas I consider myself so bright.

I've got more excuses if you'd like. LOL. Okay, I'm a piece of shit. Part of it is that I have this big integrated picture of the world and I'm not sure how to get started trying to reel someone into it until I speak to them a bit. Honestly I don't think most people could understand it because they aren't me. Not that it's some big deal to be me besides that I know where I'm coming from because I've lived my life and thought my thoughts. Okay I've beat that horse to death now. Pardon. You touched a chord as I'm sure you can tell. My procrastination and lack of expertise in any particular area of anything send me reeling when I contemplate trying to really get down on some writing.

There's a combination of factors that I'm referring to here, but basically:

- after writing for a while in the Fan Fic section in the Scifi forum, I kinda realized that I was writing throwaway work where, if I had any sense, I would just write a book and try to do something with it
So you're writing a book? Sci fi, philosophy... what? What's the topic? My guess is that it will be great. You're a sharp fella, if nothing else, please let me know when you get published so I can pick up your prose.

- after arguing for a while about various philosophical issues, it came to me that most people already have a set world view because of the range of expressions that they think in.
It's true, but what comes in today is part of their world-view tomorrow.

That first one was the clincher, I think, but the second one's important too. Put it in your head for a moment.
I'm with you bro, I only differ in the blind hope that perhaps my own world-view, along with that of others - might benefit from the exchange over time.

People think in blocks consisting (I think) of things they've previously experienced. They tend to be restricted, but not necessarily to some kind of ideological telephone booth as the Orwell-fondlers would have us think... rather, when they think of a new thing it's restricted to the terms of expression that they have available to them. If you've ever taken a history course and seen the Comparative Metaphor type history student, you'll probably understand this.
I haven't, but I get your meaning. You're right, but I think there are a precious few (like yourself for instance, and perhaps that killjoy fella) that can open their minds and do more than is prescribed above.

As such, it seems more... uh... parsimonious to try to add to people's range of expression than to try to bend their ideas, since (as I mentioned some time ago) people normally need to forge a common context to communicate properly, and providing more generic tools for that common context should help to some extent.
While a noble thought, it may be as pointless as actually trying to teach them explicitely. ;) The main difference is not having to deal with the folks.

I don't know if it really does. Did Nietzsche help? I suppose he did, but it's sometimes hard to tell.
Actually I'm not sure. It depends on what you mean by help. I'm sure he's hurt a lot of folks. He also stimulated a lot of conversations, so... *shrug*

In any case, this may not really explain why, but I have a profound sense that I am wasting my time when I post on this forum.
Well, I cannot fault you for keen sensibility.

That's not a dig at you however. You are handsome and cool.
LOL. Stop looking at my ass.

Anyway, I came back for a reason, and that's a thread in the philosophy subforum. There's this guy who's trying to develop his own religion, and whenever I try and call him on it he's all like, "Well it's just a volunteer organization", and "we're only doing it on weekends", and he's all like that. But I mean SHIT dawg, that thang looks like the Empire from Star Wars, you just take a look and see if it don't. We don't watch it they're gonna rule the world and we'll be outside the gate with the garbage.
I skimmed the topic in question and didn't take the original poster as seriously as he would have liked perhaps. I just kind of thought it was a crock and moved on. I didn't read his page though. I'll consider a looksy.

Drop by there if you want. That will be the only thread I post in, most likely.
*sigh*

Well shit. That's cool man, and the gayness of my next statement fills me with guilty homophobic disgust... but I miss you, you bastard. If that thread is all you have to offer, then so it shall be. *sniffle* ... I'll... *choke/sniffle/bawl* ... I'll just appreciate whatever of you you can spare. *pulls it together* Hehe. Nah man, you know how it is. You were a muse to me and I miss it.

Thanks for the line,
Anytime. Thanks for the detailed response. I'm not worthy! Hehe.

Blue

Later man, good luck to you whatever you do.

Wes

Well. That's just a shame about BigBlueHead. I haven't gone back on a dedicated read through his past material, but I have read this and that and I wish he were still around to share his prodigious azure melon with us all.

Maybe someday he'll get over his touch of... despair over spending time here. It is true that many here are set on their ways, but there are those precious few with whom a good conversation is not wasted.

It's true that one must advance, and I can understand what he said about repetitiveness, but I should think that recognizing the problem should allow one more solutions than one. More than just the extreme of abandoning the place altogether.

Ah. Well. Maybe he'll be back. Maybe he won't. In the meantime...

Tiassa,


My earliest rememberance of a nutria is from elementary school, I was 10 or so. There was a stuffed nutria on display, the teeth all orange -- and huuuuge! Ever since, any word that even remotely resembles the word "nutria" gives me the creeps. This is why I resent food that has "pro-nutro" written on it. I think of that stuffed nutria, and I think that food would taste exactly the same as that stuffed nutria.

Eh. I haven't said much now, have I?

Anyway, a nutria is out of the question for being a lure for our Tyger.

You will soon find that there is another MIA.
I know this because I have killed him myself.

I’m sure the atmosphere of this place invites only the brightest and the best.
No, moron would waste his time here and nobody lacking in spirit could ever find himself here.
I’ll enjoy my, infrequent and questionable participation.

This as my introduction.

Mephistopheles has always been mankind’s bad conscious.
MUAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahaha
*fart*
Excuse me.

This as my introduction.

Wandered away, did he?
Shame. He did have interesting things to say, even if he had a tendency to get caught up in pointless squabbles with a certain few. I think he enjoyed it as much as they did. And he started it probably just as often.

Ah. Well. Such is life.

(You weren't quick enough with your title change. I saw Satyr by chance when you first registered and saw that the title was Alter Ego. So, if you meant him to be a secret... try again.)

Edit: Ah. You didn't mean it to be a secret from your use of 'bad conscience'.

Anyway.
Thought of another MIA.
FountainHed.
And. Dare I mention? Spookz? Either he finally gave up trying to sneak back in or he finally figured out how to hide himself effectively.


Edit again:

Oh. And on the subject of luring the tiger. Everyone knows that this particular tiger's favorite food is muffins.

You are much too clever for the likes of me, my intellectually gifted, friend.

Whoever this Wanderer was, he certainly wasted his time here.
He must have been deconstructed into misery and now runs for comfort in new personifications.

This is a place for the strong and the bold, I’m sure.
A place for fun and games and not idle chatter about the world and its woes.
A place of scientific discourse and intellectual acuity.

Let us grieve over lost comrades and welcome the new, more appropriate, participators.

It is unfortunate that many cannot appreciate the quality of this Forum or fall victim to its powerful members.

But I am new in these parts and wonder who rules these internet-pages of wonderment.
Who is the ruler here? Is it queen or king that calls this place dominion?

I think you will find, in time, that I am a creature of casual interests and insipid motives.

No, long-winded treatises about culture or mankind from me.
No seriousness or honesty from me.
No attempts to speak on issues or about the turmoil in my empty head.
I am a simpler more modern creature.

Let fools who think such things deserve public airing or that believe they are original and unique speak about nothingness.

I come here – as rarely as possible – only to spread cheer and laughter.
This place deserves no less and no more.

Spookz, I dare say, had been on track all along.
Flies and shit is what makes the world go round.
You are either one or the other.
I intend to be the former, if I can.

Spookz, I dare say, had been on track all along.
Flies and shit is what makes the world go round.
You are either one or the other.
I intend to be the former, if I can.?

Spookzie? Is that you?

Wow. Not only is he here, but he's paying attention. At least he's living up to his name. Wow.

plexus

And if I was would I reply
With a telling glance
Or a slight of eye?

The lord of the flies, come back, or a nasty sycophant wanting some entertainment?
You decide.

Spring is here. A time for new beginnings.

Ah, no reason to wag my tail. 'T is not his tongue.

http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/satyr.jpg

I like this guy.

plexus
Tongues are tools that can be shaped and altered.

One must learn to adapt to circumstances.

When in the den of monsters, speak softly and keep to the walls.
When in the home of wisdom, sit and listen.
When in the presence of strength and power, learn to attach yourself to greatness and drink from its blood.

But this place is none of that and even less.

It is a romper-room, where toddlers learn to walk and run and fall and cry.

Here clowns and satires are well placed, to extinguish the slightest hint of severity and plant the seed of gullibility.

But I must fly now, my newfound friends.
The summer sun is too bright to ignore and the long winter has made it sweeter still.

I promise, - whatever the promise of a devil means – to be back from time to time and see what saplings of acumen grow here.

Long live the memory of the fallen.
BigBlueHead found the door when I was still searching for a seat. He mocks me with his acuity and I feel shame for having taken so long to see what this place is good for.

When foul weather and dreary TV allows, I will drop in.

Until then …..Satan bids you farewell.

Bob
You would like anything with a penis and a flute and a maiden there to boot.

I've noticed a lack of "orthogonal" asswell. Xev decontructed him good. Maybe he lost some pieces. Hmm.

I'm quite sure there are a number of posters of significance that we're forgetting.

Adam? He comes and goes a bit.

Tyler? Maybe I just haven't seen it.

Flores? I can't believe she left.

Dreamwalker? I haven't seen his punk ass around in forever.

Rappacini? I know he was banned, but I figured he'd spookz it up. Maybe he has and I haven't figured out who he is.

Satyr,

I find it distasteful that you should compare yourself to BigBlueHead. He may have decided to leave as well, but his reasons are not yours. They don't even equate with yours in the simplest way. For instance, he just left. He didn't throw a big shitfit over it.

Know something? I came this close to starting a thread with your name on it so that you wouldn't ruin this thread with your pettiness. But if you're going to run off and play in the sunshine then there's no need.


Wes,

Tyler has been on recently. I saw him debating someone in free thoughts. Something about Bush and politics.

Flores. I always wondered what she looked like in a bikini.

Dreamwalker. He just posted yesterday or the day before.

Rappacini. He was only temp banned. Last I heard from him he was translating the Latin Vulgate Bible but he wasn't cheered on enough (read: whipped and driven enough) to finish.

Wessmoris
You fat fuck.
I'll await your Wittgensteinean smatter at the bookstores.

Until then, I say this: pieces are sometimes lost when they are given and discarded as garbage, by the receiver.
If one has mass –like you and I- he has more pieces still.
One gives from what he isn’t afraid to lose and one shows what he fears not.

Let us forget Wanderer and his miserable stupidity.
He belongs in the past or sulking in his solitary Blog with only his outdated ideas and his fear for company.

The devil gives to all their just rewards and he has his own.

But let us now remember the fallen and not brood.
For as a many are lost, many more come to be.
A magnet of critical thought, we have here, governed by noble brightness that outdoes the sun itself.

If health were an electron then let me be the disease.

Bye now.

This time I mean it.

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/vaticano/ET2-Kylix.jpg

Beware the riddling Sphinx.

She'll rip out your throat when you give the wrong answer.

Me? I am still there, but some posts around here got so boring, I could not make myseöf respond, no point in arguing here when there is no fun in it.

But perhaps I can overcome my demotivation, might manage that.

EDIT:
Hey, what do you mean with punk ass? :D

Sorry dreamy. I didn't see you forever, then I looked around after the above and see your freakin posts EVERYWHERE. Apparently, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about and should be ignored for the duration of this thread.

Nah, thosse are only the posts from half an hour ago, I only made three other posts in the last month.

Open minds say more than written words.

Open minds say more than written words.

Oh?
Like what? Something like this?

*whistling wind*

Heh.

-Bob-
Riddle me this and riddle me that
Who’s afraid of the big, bad bitch?

...BAT!!! Bat...
I must remember that part.

Bob you insipid fool.
I like you.
You have the makings of a fine minion.
A fine, medium sized, hot, Italian minion with a wonderful hairy chest.

invert_nexus
I’m glad to see you now bury your nose in her snatch only half way.
You have come a long way, my boy.
Still some more is needed before I reward you with your first pair of balls.

I find it distasteful that you should compare yourself to BigBlueHead. He may have decided to leave as well, but his reasons are not yours. They don't even equate with yours in the simplest way. For instance, he just left. He didn't throw a big shitfit over it.A shit-fit…how prosaic.

Am I supposed to feel insulted now?

I’ll play.
Beware or I’ll make you my focus.

How many hours do you spend here anyways?

All that time and not a single thread with meat.

Here’s another thing missing in action: Your brain.
Must have been taken prisoner or something.

cosmictraveler
Spread cheeks, say even more.

I still kinda miss Chroot....

Dee Cee

Crackpot killer. Yes, I agree... and lethe? I heard he left.

'Satyr':

Thought you weren't coming back?

I’m glad to see you now bury your nose in her snatch only half way.
You have come a long way, my boy.

Shows what you know. My nose is all the way up there.

Still some more is needed before I reward you with your first pair of balls.

See? How you betray yourself?
As if you are in a position to reward anybody with anything.
The all-powerful forum queen. That's who you wish you were.

Am I supposed to feel insulted now?

No. You should feel ashamed.

How many hours do you spend here anyways?

Just so much and not a minute more.

All that time and not a single thread with meat.

Here’s another thing missing in action: Your brain.
Must have been taken prisoner or something.

Here's an amazing thing. Some people aren't seeking some kind of fame or whatever it is that you want by starting a variety of 'threads with meat'. I have actually started a thread or two with some kind of content. Guess what happened with them? You can probably guess as your situation is nowhere near unique regardless of how loudly you whine about it. But that doesn't matter. I am satisfied with the things I've both taught and learned in here.



This is taking too much space in this thread.
This thread is about MIA's. Not about people who want to be mourned without going missing. You want me to start that thread for you, don't you?




Edit:

Chroot came back recently when the spammer showed up advertising phsyicsforums or whatever it was. He's admin there or something.

Satyr:

Dream on old man.

My young, virgin ass is off limits to most of the human race.

But you're cool, so we can hang.

As if you are in a position to reward anybody with anything.
The all-powerful forum queen. That's who you wish you were.

Yes! And you know why? It is another extension of his god-complex: he wants to have offspring. But to make sure the offspring would be his, he has to be a woman, for only so he can ensure that the offspring would be of the parental lineage as he wishes.
(For to have offspring with a woman, he'd have to trust her that she hasn't betrayed him, but he can't trust.)

I just fear that he would have multiple fetuses at once, sextuplets or something comparably devilish. I bet they would engage in intrauterine cannibalism, just like their father-mother. Whew, only the strong survive, this is why we now have the Satyr ... who ate up his brothers and sisters. And I'm afraid he ate up his father-mother up as well, from the inside.

I just remembered my favorite MIA of all time: Allah's Mathematics, or what was his name when he changed it? Hmm... Ghassan Kanafani I think. Everyone HATED that dude, but I thought he was awesome. We disagreed on just about everything. :) HE was a big loss to this place IMO.

ah, yes, I remember, certainly won't miss Allah's Mathematics

speaking of crackpots: my all time best award goes to Tony1

The all time crackpot award has to go to Craterchains. How many threads can you start about intergalactic nuclear war before the nice men in the white coats come to haul you away to the hospital nobody calls a hospital?

That guy was a hoot.

Craterchains was just lame. It was actually interesting to "fight" with Tony1

whoa! my brother. where hath though been? good to see you.

It was actually interesting to "fight" with Tony1

To a point. Certainly I found some of the Christian representation here annoying when I arrived, but if we draw a line through a couple of other posters who get to remain unnamed on separate counts of respect, he falls in line as the next step of failure, and also a turning point. People might not remember when a small core of Christian advocates had atheism on the defensive. I know some folks forgot about it after even short periods of quietude.

In fact, at the height of his presence, atheists would respond to T1 according to a certain standard that even I agreed with. Shortly after things quieted down, the atheistic crowd found that standard too demanding. The atheistic argument at Sciforums has never recovered.

As much as an utter fool and liar as he made himself to appear, it ends up a coin flip. He was a standard of Christian dishonesty, but he kept atheists honest. Odd, that.

As much as an utter fool and liar as he made himself to appear, it ends up a coin flip. He was a standard of Christian dishonesty, but he kept atheists honest. Odd, that.

Could you please point me to a particular thread that stands out as a good example of what you say above?

Thanks.

I'll go fishing tonight. It's been a couple of years since I've read through his posts.

I'm not completly gone. The ball has just stopped rolling, no more fun here and i found something else to play with, so for a time i be gone.
However, sometimes i do miss reading some of the good stuff found around here.

So I moved you from the MIA list to the deserters list.

Your execution squad is waiting for you when you return.

I miss that really nice calm ,rational chap, Proud Muslim. Barking mad but great fun!

Where is Persol?

Yeah that's a good damned question.

why is everyone so much after Proud Muslim, there is little differens between him and all the other raving mad lunatics around here, like say otheadp and friends.

They didn't like him because he disagreed with the others you mention. Basic prejudice resulting from societal indoctrination. Pro-Israeli violence and violations of humanity are generally more acceptable to Westerners than something based on Islam. He was one of a string of posters who received a cold shoulder, including the first, a poster named Helen, who was disliked on the one hand for that posting style that nobody liked, but in large part because people wanted to hate her for being an extremist Muslim when in fact she was an Arab Christian. I found PM to be as reasonable or not to the same degree as some of our non-Muslim posters. I never understood why those people should have been treated better than PM or his predecessors.

(A note for Water: I'll get around to that list at some point. Since it's obviously such a thrill to go back and read through that library for you ....)

(A note for Water: I'll get around to that list at some point. Since it's obviously such a thrill to go back and read through that library for you ....)

I just thought you might have remembered a particular thread, or a clue how to find it. Not that you'd have to go through all of it!

If you can remember a specific phrase that was said, a particular insult that you can use in a search? That's how I can find most of the things I am looking for.
I have such wonderful memory.


I do appreciate your efforts.

No, he was careful sometimes. Look up the "Crumbling the Foundations of Christianity" topic .... um acutally ... here (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=2570). That's actually one of his better performances:

Your point may be that we get our knowledge of such things from forgeable books, but so what?

Forgeries simply prove the existence of the real.
Who can forge something which doesn't exist?

When is the last time someone tried to pass off a forged, or counterfeit, 27 1/2 dollar bill, for example?

If we're to presume him intelligent, then he already knew that counterpoint had nothing to do with anything.

Or if you check a point he makes about books (1 (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=38053), 2 (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=38056))--

• The problem is that the old and new testaments are not books.
There are collections of books that happen to be called the old and the new testaments. (1)

• • •

Maybe you didn't notice, but you had two sentences in a row referencing the NT.
One was not using the term "books" and the other was.

My statements simply answered yours in the same order. (2)

--you'll find that the point is disingenuous. The "NT" he refers to is an adjective, the noun is a plural: "writers".

His posts mostly worked that way: invent a second issue, falsely construed, and push that in order to avoid those points to which the real answers might displease him.

In that second post he also makes the point,

How can you forge a blood covenant?
Written words might be forged, erased and replaced, misspelled, etc.
But how can you forge a verbal commitment based on actions?

In a discussion questioning the historicity of something, it seems rather disingenuous, or at best merely pointless, to stand on the question as its own answer. Thus, if the historical truth of events is in question, don't stand on those events as historical without something more.

Arguing forgeries--

Again, I say, based on this definition, a forgery is still based on some reality.
If it is purported to be by or about another, who is this other?
If it is for the purpose of deceit or fraud, then who would be fooled by the presentation of a God if no gods existed?

--he has a point, but only if we ignore every use of the phrase "Word of God" in relation to the Bible that has ever occurred in history.

Aleister Crowley is in a similar position: He claimed to have had words dictated to him by an angel named Aiwaz. If this is true, then it's true. If not, then it's a forgery in Aiwaz's name.

Same applies to the "Word of God".

But Tony1, more interested in being contrarian and cantankerous, had a habit of discrediting Christianity.

Being sympathetic to Tony1 wasn't helpful, either:

However, the thing that puzzles me is this.
Why is it that at the same time that atheists and antichristians claim to have the truth, they (you) base their entire existence on that which they (you) deny?

To be an atheist, one has to be a theist, but opposite.
To be an antichristian, you have to be a christian, but opposite.

Christians, and theists in general, can say that their beliefs are based on what they believe.

But, antichristians and atheists have to say that their beliefs are based on the opposite of what they believe.

This is peculiar.
How do you deal with such a strange paradox? (3 (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=38060))

I tried meeting him according to his arguments:

* An atheist refuses to accept what is not there on a specifically fundamental basis. This is not so much the difference between demons and bacteria, but a principle which affects all perspectives on the Universe. A theist accepts God a priori. To illustrate the difference simply: Atheists, to my experience, generally accept the idea that, I can only prove to myself that I exist. I cannot prove this to anyone else. Theists, however, must necessarily avoid this concept until enough theistic assumptions exist a priori to allow this concept to become valid. Why? Because "God" exists, in the theist's perspective. The theist believes in a reality concerning something other than the self that the atheist generally will only acknowledge about his or her own self as a practical necessity. The theist claims for God what an atheist should not (by my particular logical structure) be able to claim publicly for his/her self.

* Were we debating with a Muslim participant, would we be anti-Muslim? Incidentally, there is a principle buried within Sufism that would regard an atheist as put upon such a path by God. Of course, at that point, Islam has become so mystical that I think Cris, even, would have an appreciation of the idea of being "put upon such a path by God". (Essentially, it's a Sufi way of saying, "Because that's the way life is.") The point of that is that one need have nothing against Christianity, per se, but still become anti-Christian by the way you seem to be defining it.

On this note, let me reiterate a point I brought up in another thread. I would love to have known the original Christians, to have watched that thought process. It is a sadness that two-thousand years of intervening history have buried that idea so deeply that it may as well be ashes in Hell. Bearing that in mind ....

For someone like me, the fact that I honor a different set of fundamental standards than Christianity indicates that I will, most likely, have occasion to differ fundamentally with Christianity. In this sense, I have no problem with Christianity. But where you assert, Christians, and theists in general, can say that their beliefs are based on what they believe . . . . But, antichristians and atheists have to say that their beliefs are based on the opposite of what they believe, I believe you are mistaken. This juxtaposition only occurs because an occasion requires it. You're speaking of the difference, essentially, between mastering the Universe, and assuming you already have. More directly, of the atheistic need to learn what's real versus the theistic idea that some reality can only be assumed. A book tells most theistic Americans that God is real. I don't need a book to tell me that gravity is real, or that the Doppler effect is real; I can experience exactly what those words describe personally.

Atheists tend to believe in the reality that they learn; and, yes, some of it is faith. I can read about a team of scientists making metallic hydrogen and frankly, I don't need to go out and build the damn machine just to accept that this is real. This is not a result of my personally being theistic; I'm quite sure that my atheist planetmates aren't really anxious to go out and build a 7-city-bus-long gas gun just to compress packets of hydrogen gas. Actually, I'd bet that a number of them are, but, like me, just for the hell of it.

Where Christian and antichristian come into play is an area Bowser and I are exploring in the form of a different concept. Dualisms only exist because we can count, at least, to two. As Bowser has wisely pointed out, homosexuality and homophobes is, technically, a smaller concern than the African HIV crisis. But the issue does exist in Oregon and other places because those sides have chosen to square off. I'll leave that part of my politics out of it for the sake of this thread.

But yes, I have fundamental differences of perspective with my Christian neighbors. Unfortunately, many of these differences become tangible realities with which I must cope. More often than not, I find my most treasured rights challenged by ideas derived from Christian principle. Were this to be true of Muslims, for instance, I would probably be much more critical of American Islam. Those parts of American Islam I might find objectionable blow by me; their effect on me is so convoluted by a difference in rhetorical standard that I generally don't see them. Nor do I regularly find myself voting on whether or not to pass a law based solely on Islamic principles.

So, being--by habit or coincidence of principles--politically antichristian, this version of the so-called reality of me becomes a readily identifiable aspect. Nonetheless, my Christian neighbor is merely my neighbor until I am asked to identify myself and stand apart. (4 (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=38073))

After all, I've come to make a similar point in the time since about atheistic anti-identification. But, alas, sympathy for the devil is a dangerous thing sometimes. The core of his response, "I don't remember being born believing in God, so it is quite possible that it is the atheist who assumes there is no God a priori." (5 (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=38080))

So I took him up on that point:

Tell me, then about when you do first remember God, if you should be so kind. I guarantee you that it is not independent of assumption. The atheist is without a belief in God because the atheist has not yet observed God in any sense which satisfies their empirical standards.

The idea that God is simply "all there is" is a satisfactory definition for me to not cross it off the list of possibilities in this wacky Universe. For others, this definition is not satisfactory, and for reasons I well understand, excepting, of course, the empirical. But I cannot assume that God exists; to the other, God is a belief which my family and culture has heartily encouraged, without ever making sense of it. (6 (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=38082))

His answer was, "It may well not be independent of assumption. And, I'm not sure I remember, anyway." (7 (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=38172))

If you read through those posts, and also the other aspects of the discussion he was involved in with other people in that topic, you'll find that his most concrete statements are faith-based and of such a nature as to be included in the question. At one point a poster asked him, straight up: "Why are you even here if not to debate?"

His response was that it is debate, and asked whether or not this was the Christianity forum. (At the time, it was.)

The response is beside the point. He answered the question mark, but ignored the rest of it: "Your reasoning is backward. You have no evidence for anything you say and you seem to have no intentions of continuing an intelligent debate. I can just see you snickering in your desk as you completely disregard everything we are saying here." (8 (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=38675), 9 (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=38681))

And even more sympathy (10 (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=38712)). I wouldn't know what to extract from that post, since the whole thing attempted to address his issues.

His response (11 (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=38729)) only demonstrated the futility of taking him seriously. He was more interested in one-liners and trying to be cool and snide than he was in any substantive discussion or debate. So far I've only counted through about eighty of the posts out of over two hundred in that discussion. It goes on. And so does he.

• • •

Try the topic, "Religion vs. Thought (http://sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=4072)". His first post is actually decent; it's only real problem is that it plays semantics ridiculously. In later posts, you can find him refusing historical considerations ("Recycling old crap isn't what I like to do ....")

By posts 81-100 in that topic (page 5 (http://sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=4072&page=5&pp=20) by default layout), he's simply refusing to have any substantive discussion. (12 (http://sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=60585), 13 (http://sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=60588), 14 (http://sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=61911))

And no, it's not just me he's trying to yank. Others attempted to engage him on the paucity of his arguments and got similar results. (15 (http://sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=61930), 16 (http://sciforums.com/report.php?p=62048))

Nonetheless, Tony1 did have his supporters. (16 (http://sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=62185), 17 (http://sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=62254), 18 (http://sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=62263), 19 (http://sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=62329), 20 (http://sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=62384))

Links 12 - 20 all reflect posts available at the page 5 link above. I continue on that page, but would like to quote a specific response of Tony1's:

*Originally posted by tiassa
What I find most interesting is that Tony1 has never felt it important enough to offer even the barest minimum of those details.*

I wrote them down.
It was probably just the pot smoke that prevented you from seeing them. (21 (http://sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=63197))

To this day, that response rings falsely. If it was written down, I'm still unsure where. Why? Because Tony1 didn't feel it necessary to include even a bare minimum of courtesy in his post. And besides, I'm not the only one who wondered where those details are.

• • •

The reason there's so many examples above, and from only a couple of topics, is that Tony1 was, at first, fairly unique in his determination to duck the argument. Over time, he would not be the only one. While some of his supporters/cohorts/counterparts/associates/friends/call-them-what-you-will could in fact, foster some sense of reasonable argument, they did attempt to justify and defend him.

Additionally, and it may just be coincidental, but it seems that after that crew lapsed into silence for a period, other arguments began to change. I remember a couple of topics that marked a transition from atheists understanding that they were not only statistically better-off than Christians on average, but also that they were not constricted to irrationality as Christians were, to a condition whereby such an understanding was well and fine, but atheists had no reason to oblige themselves to it. Apparently, being smarter and less constricted was too much of a constriction.

And that's part of how Tony1--and that group of Christian posters--managed to keep atheists honest. At least when they were around, being better off than your neighbor wasn't an unfair burden.

• • •

It's hard to pick individual posts sometimes, because the concept of offense is often extended over a period. The nostalgia is pleasant, but I've spent enough time dwelling in the past. In all honesty, I probably shouldn't have opened my yap in this topic in the first place.

Generally speaking, if you examine the whole of his contribution to this site, you'll find more of it to be hostile, pointless, or otherwise poorly-intended.

When he arrived, we certainly did have a community with factions, but the emptiness of his arguments has become much more common at Sciforums. Part of this--the larger part, probably--is mere population statistics. (I wonder what our population history actually looks like on a graph.)

I do remember a point in there somewhere that I thought about those other posters who came before him and wondered, "How the hell did I let them annoy me so much?"

At least they were willing to engage arguable points.

Tiassa,


Thank you so much for the elaborated reply!
It took me quite a while to read through the posts.

What has prompted me to make this inquiry was your saying "He was a standard of Christian dishonesty".

Hm.

I came to realize, in my one year here, that people often argue about religion for reasons that have nothing directly to do with religion.
Power-struggles, elitism, compensating for certain shortcomings, ... -- all these carried out within the religious discourse, and thus making the religious discourse illegible.


* * *


Ever read Douglas Adams? If you prove the existence of God, you destroy God. It's a great argument that only a Western-created God could get itself tied into.

No.
So, actually atheists support Christianity by rejecting proof of God.
One would think that if proving the existence of God destroys God, that atheists would get busy proving his existence, thus destroying him.

This one is still spinning in my mind ...

Undecided has disapeared aswell :(

Ah, decided to leave.

Crackpot killer. Yes, I agree... and lethe? I heard he left.
left? more like got banned. And well, didn't come back after his ban. you know, pride and what not.

showing your pride to whom, you proudie? we really miss you.

no, we don't

i did not include cranks.

Who's "lethe"?
I never knew you arrived, let alone disappeared.

Dare I ask, where the fuck's athelwulf?
My theory is, when banned for 3 days or whatever, he was forced to socialise with real people, who consequently murdered him immediately for being such an irritating faggot.
I fear truthseeker also won't be rejoining us for the same reason.

Seeker has been banned. I got an email from him some time later.

It says in the banned thread he was banned for 30 days.
I can't see him surviving for 30 days in the real world.

Be a pal, copy and paste that email, I could use a laugh.

left? more like got banned. And well, didn't come back after his ban. you know, pride and what not.

Wow. I find that surprising. So YOU get banned while MacM runs amock eh? Grrr. Yuriy left if you didn't catch it. Basically, he couldn't co-exist with Mac's brick of a brain. It's sad to see minds like either of yours leave us, but I don't blame you I guess. I hope you come back, I've always enjoyed reading your thoughts. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Lou:

lethe posts in math/physics and had for as long as I've been here.

Avatar:

yeah what lou said. post that email!

Yeah, it would be nice to have lethe and yuriy back. Although yuriy did have a tough personality, he always knew what he was talking about.
The math/physics forum has pretty much degraded into a SRT battleground lately. Half of the threads there basically cover the same point, with people arguing with each other.
We could use some people who can talk about something else aswell..

Speaking of missing, tiassa himself hasn't been around since the 6th of June either.

Bugger.

And goofy is missing too...

:(

Whatver happened to this one?
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=43690

holy shit, tiassa IS missing. anyone know his email?

It says in the banned thread he was banned for 30 days.
I can't see him surviving for 30 days in the real world.
The best 30 days of my life.....

And goofy is missing too...

:(

:D

Time for partay!

What happened to WTF? I mean... WCF...

WCF aka electricfetus left for study, i think he said something along the lines of 7 months back in december

ok, or maybe that was jsut a dream about the 7 months.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=42916

Maybe. We all have weird dreams. I think sciforums affects our minds in strange ways. Like meth, for example....

Has anyone heard from Tiassa?

Speaking of all this m.i.a stuuf, what ever happened to jaded flower.

Has anyone heard from goofyfish?

Spurious Monkey, the starter of this thread, has mysteriously disappeared also.. ironic isn't it?

Xev is missing.

Xev is missing.

red's dead.

and where the hell is the cloud in my silver lining, gendanken?

(probably drowning in her own bathwater)

Xev is missing.
Yeeeeehhhh!!!!

Party time!!! :D
*take a bong out of pocket* :m:

Like, almost all of the mods are MIA. What the heck's going on?

They were captured by the US government, instructed by aliens from planet Zarp, who want to take over the world...

Actually there are very few active mods.

They must be doing lots of sports, then.... :p

we need porf to send a "sci is back up" email to all the members, that solud bring some back

The mod squad are pouting over something infantile. Grow up: Come back.

Soon, i too might be missing in action, not missed by many though.

The mod squad are pouting over something infantile. Grow up: Come back.

care to expand?

Actually I think some of the Mod's have become ultrabusy in the real world. Schools, Colleges and Work seems to have entrapped some of them away from the computer. I'm sure they would all love to have stupid amounts of freetime, but freetime usually comes at a cost.

Actually I think some of the Mod's have become ultrabusy in the real world. Schools, Colleges and Work seems to have entrapped some of them away from the computer. I'm sure they would all love to have stupid amounts of freetime, but freetime usually comes at a cost.

You mean the mods aren't unemployed bums living with their parents?

im shocked. :eek:

also, what happened to:

*Dapthar (actually I think he left due to study. Good kid)
*fountainhed
* polluxV

?

Spurious Monkey, the starter of this thread, has mysteriously disappeared also.. ironic isn't it?

No, I haven't. I was abducted by aliens, but they returned me safely after examining my liver and finding it was killed by my wife.

where is undecided :( *sob*

No, I haven't. I was abducted by aliens, but they returned me safely after examining my liver and finding it was killed by my wife.
Ha... I thought I was the only one that has had experienced that.... :eek: :bugeye:

In case you were wondering, i crossed the atlantic and am now in a different continent.

Why does nobody ever wonders about me? :(

-I don't get pm'ed
-most of my threads are being invaded by poor spirited, ill dwelled personalities
-nobody supports my posts, even if they are intresting
-ect
-ect


I feel as if I am neglected,...I'm considering to quit posting sciforums,...

I'm considering to give it up,...entirely


:m:

Fukushi

Where do you usually post? Pseudoscience?

Why does nobody ever wonders about me? :(

-I don't get pm'ed
-most of my threads are being invaded by poor spirited, ill dwelled personalities
-nobody supports my posts, even if they are intresting
-ect
-ect


I don't get PMed that often either. About twice a year or so.

Everybody's posts get invaded by post gnomes

My posts are so interesting that nobody dares to reply...ever....

etc

etc

My posts are so interesting that nobody dares to reply...ever.... LOL :D

I post all over the forum, but now I have a thread going on in Pseudo-yeah,...science, cause If I would have started it in science, it would probably end up in the pseudo-section anyway,...hehehe

Guys, this really helped me to keep the spirit up! Thx!

Greetz
Fukushi

I’ve noticed that Wanderer has been missing in action for some time now.

I heard he got shot in the balls, by a cunning sniper, while trying to crawl up to a pillbox occupied by the kingdom’s best, and blow it up.
God rest his miserable, needy soul.