The US has now also named Cuba, Libya and Syria in the 'axis of evil' (see article) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1971000/1971852.stm). Apart from the fact that someone should have told Bush you can only have three in an axis, what is the point of doing this now? Libya is on the verge of paying $2.4bn in compensation to the Lockerbie victims families. Al-Qadhafi has renounced terrorism and been useful in ending several hostage situations in recent years. Why is the US stirring where it doesn't need to stir (I mean Cuba!?)?

Cuba? Weapons of mass destruction in Cuba? Huh? I’ve got it - must be those Cuban cigars spreading lung cancer around the world. Those scurrilous no-good evil-doer Cuban bastards!

I begin to notice how all of these countries are places that it is conceivable we could bomb. Try to remember that time in September when the enemy was a group of terrorists who had murdered thousands of American citizens. Ignoring the fact that the threat was ridiculously over-estimated, the real danger from that organization was in the existence of "sleeper cells" in the United States and in Europe. An international conspiracy if you will. Well, the only hope of dealing with a phenomena like that would be multilateral law enforcement operations.

You can't bomb Hamburg. You can't bomb London and I suppose that means that Florida is off-limits as well. So the only way that you can effectively get after this problem is to rely on international co-operation; in short, multilateralism. But the current administration seems to be philosophically opposed to this. For them it is “our way or the highway.” So, rather than change their strategy to adapt to the new threat, they are pretending that the threat has changed. We are supposed to believe that the threat is really Iraq, or North Korea, or now Cuba or Syria.

I'm wondering what countries, if any, will not be on the list of evil doers by ’04. It's like a bad comic book plot.

Peace.

…and for you conspiracy theorists out there: Bush can get rid of Castro,
get the Cuban Miami vote for his brother, and be a "hero" all at once.

Chinese have Sung Tsu. We have a book called "Winning through Intimidation" or "Who moved my cheese"

Civilizations do not mature overnight....

Originally posted by kmguru
[B

Civilizations do not mature overnight.... [/B]\

No shit.:D

The only 3 countries in any axis of evil are:

United $tate$ of AmeriKKKa
Britain
Israel

Welcome to SciForums, BOZG.
Care to support your statement, or are you just trolling?

Peace.

Bornofzapatasguns, that's just funny. I hope you're joking.

1) United $tate$ of AmeriKKKa. Well, every country uses the good old dollar, or some equivalent. Even your country. Every country, if it can, influences other countries to get what they want. The more money you have, the more you can influence other countries. The USA has heaps, so has heaps of influence. The only difference is degree. If the USA is guilty of anything in this regard, it's guilty of being better at making money.

2) Britain? Perhaps you meant England?

1) I despise capitalism and the value's it stands for. Money is not a necessity in this world. It is only there in order to create wants not needs. Needs in this world should be free. I see the U$A as the greediness nation on this earth, a society based only on wants not needs. And as for them being a third of the axis of evil, since 1946 AmeriKKKa has bombed over 20 countries supposedly ridding the world of the tyrannies of Communism or to protect peoples lives. Only Stalinism and forms of it have been used in this world not communism. AmeriKKKa watches out for AmeriKKKa and no one else. If they go to war, there's strings attached.

2)No, I mean Britain. Scots, Welsh people, Northern Irish and English all form Britain and the people of each country influence the policies therefore Britain is the term I use. As for them being a part of the axis, they are AmeriKKKa's European puppet. They have always been happy to get into bed with AmeriKKKa in situations where they have no business in order to gain something for themselves.

3)The current Middle East conflict will explain why Israeli is included in my axis. They are the U$A's puppet in the ME. They continuously destroy and murder innocent people in what they call 'self-defense' yet they are the aggressor, not the Palestinians defending their homeland and themselves.

Okay, that's fine, now I understand what you meant. Thanks.

AmeriKKKa watches out for AmeriKKKa and no one else. If they go to war, there's strings attached.

So, its okay for us to go to war to protect another country and spend billions of dollars and not expect anything in return. Get real. Do you know of any country that would go to war and not expect anything back. Look at all the food and resources we have put into Afganistan. The children GET to go to school now. The women GET to walk down the streets, but were just money hungry assholes who dont want to see any good in the world. Ya, keep that mentality and then wonder why everyone hates us so much. And I would worry about your own country before knocking ours, havent you been at war with yourselves for the last 100 years or so.

Oh, and Welcome to Sciforums!!!! Nice to have someone to debate things with!!!

Take care:)

The point I was trying to make is that AmeriKKKa wouldn't go to war for these countries unless there is a reason to bring them there eg the Gulf War - Oil. When there's no reason for AmeriKKKa to protect a country then they won't leave. You can see the U$A as a humanitarian country if you like but you are very very wrong.

As for my country, I live in the Republic and the only time we were at war with ourselves was for about 2 years during the early 1920's. You're mistaken with the North.

And why is that we would go to war for no reason at all? Were going to risk our precious soldiers lives, billions of our dollars to go to war for someone else and not expect nothing in return. I see your point, but I know if I was president there better be a pretty darn good reason to go to war. And yes, I would expect something back for it.

Originally posted by BornOfZapatasGuns
I despise capitalism and the value's it stands for.

You are too young to understand. It is a means to an end. See the next answer.

Money is not a necessity in this world. It is only there in order to create wants not needs. Needs in this world should be free.

I agree. Communism did not work. It caused a lot of grief everywhere except China. We have to work with the tools we have. And Capitalism is the best tool at present.

I see the U$A as the greediness nation on this earth, a society based only on wants not needs.

You see in black and white. The color provides a lot more information. Sorry for your loss.

AmeriKKKa watches out for AmeriKKKa and no one else. If they go to war, there's strings attached.

Survival of the fittest comes to mind. May be America's growth is a new paradigm for better....

Change is hard to take. But it is a part of the property of the Universe. Life would be less miserable if one accepts the change. Perhaps you do not have enough information (as in looking at the forest from the trees) ...

I agree. Communism did not work. It caused a lot of grief everywhere except China. We have to work with the tools we have. And Capitalism is the best tool at present.

In my opinion, communism has never been tried, only Stalinism and forms of it. Fair enough, you see capitalism as the best tool at present but I greatly disagree.



You see in black and white. The color provides a lot more information. Sorry for your loss.

OK, show me some 'colour' and we'll discuss it.



Survival of the fittest comes to mind. May be America's growth is a new paradigm for better....

Yes but things should not always be about yourself. Helping others must always come before wealth.



Were going to risk our precious soldiers lives, billions of our dollars to go to war for someone else and not expect nothing in return.

What makes AmeriKKKan soldiers more 'precious' than any other person in the world. If they are unwilling to help others in trouble without something in return, it just shows that they care only about themselves and things that directly affect them.

You live in the Republic and your having a go at america, damm ironic.

BornOfZapatasGuns:
In my opinion, communism has never been tried, only Stalinism and forms of it. Fair enough, you see capitalism as the best tool at present but I greatly disagree.

Since you disagree, you must have a different tool. Show me ....

OK, show me some 'colour' and we'll discuss it.

Fair enough. Read most of my posts in this forum. If you still can not see, you may be incapable of seeing in color. Major surgery may be needed. Then there is the recovery and training period...make sure you are upto it.

Yes but things should not always be about yourself. Helping others must always come before wealth.

I agree on the "always" part on the first sentence. I disagree the "always" part on the second. Without wealth, there is nothing one has to offer. Most non-profit organizations want money, not your good looks. They dont even want your ideas or knowledge. When, I offer my services free, nobody wants it - even though the same service is provided by my company at a very high rate and people buy it.

What makes AmeriKKKan soldiers more 'precious' than any other person in the world. If they are unwilling to help others in trouble without something in return, it just shows that they care only about themselves and things that directly affect them.

American lives are no more precious than non-Americans. The problem is - non Americans do not treat their citizens lives the precious way. Then why should we? Case in point: The WTC disaster. There were a lot of foreign nationals present in that building. We treated them as if they are our own. But I did not see those nations whose people perished make any effort to engage actively including their media about their people. The human stories etc. If you dont value your own life the same level as we do, we would have a tendency to ignore you. That is human nature. That does not make it right. But that is the way it is.

So, the moral of the story is, if you wanted to be treated as equals, act like it...sorry to be so blunt....

You live in the Republic and your having a go at america, damm ironic.

Want to explain?


Since you disagree, you must have a different tool. Show me ....

I'm an anarcho-communist that should explain.


Fair enough. Read most of my posts in this forum. If you still can not see, you may be incapable of seeing in color. Major surgery may be needed. Then there is the recovery and training period...make sure you are upto it.

I haven't really read any of your other posts but I'll have a look at them over time. And anyway I didn't just arrive at my conclusions out of nowhere. I've argued and explained this enough times to make me sick.


There were a lot of foreign nationals present in that building. We treated them as if they are our own.

Yes, you treated the people inside those building as your own because they were seen as innocent but as for the rest of the Middle Eastern people in the country, they were harassed and hated after 9/11. Why does it take someones death to bring them to an equal level. Just look at the treatment of Africans in AmeriKKKa for the past 400 years aswell as the Native peoples of the America's.


Most non-profit organizations want money, not your good looks.

But that money goes towards helping people. If these organisations don't want your ideas, then go found your own one. Every little bit helps.


If you dont value your own life the same level as we do, we would have a tendency to ignore you.

The you'll have to start ignoring me because I don't value my life at all. I would willingly give my life to the cause.

Yes, you treated the people inside those building as your own because they were seen as innocent but as for the rest of the Middle Eastern people in the country, they were harassed and hated after 9/11. Why does it take someones death to bring them to an equal level. Just look at the treatment of Africans in AmeriKKKa for the past 400 years aswell as the Native peoples of the America's.

Okay, I have to totally disagree with this whole statement. The middle easterns that were harrassed was an extremely small percentage and it was done by ignorant angry people. That has nothing to do with us Americans. Look at the way the Middle Easterns danced and cheered in the streets as they watched the horrible images of 9/11. What about that? And the treatment of Africans and Natives were the same story. Done out of ignorance. The same kind of ignorance that you have. And Im not calling you ignorant, Im just saying that the one-sided way of your thinking is the same way of thinking as those who harass and kill innocent people. I dont look at and hate all of those in Afganistan because of Osama. Im glad we did some good over there. To look at actions of a small ignorant group and label the whole country - well thats just insane.

OK, this was my fault. I didn't make this clear. Most of time when I refer to AmeriKKKa, I refer to the state, I do agree that maybe I labelled the entire country but I still do see AmeriKKKa as quite racist and ignorant.

Yes and do you know why many people from the ME danced on the streets? They really do not condone the senseless violence (some do) that was 9/11 but many are so pissed off and the global domination of AmeriKKKa and the effects that it has on their lives. In Iraq for example, AmeriKKKan led UN Sanctions have caused the deaths of over 500,000 children and another 1,500,000 adults. Also, Israel receives billions of dollars from AmeriKKKa largely which goes into their army and the oppression of the Palestinians. Bush Jr can end that whole situation in three words 'No More Aid'.

As for Afghanistan, AmeriKKKa 'doing good over there' is a very debatable issue. Yes, you may have got ridden of one tyranny but many people including myself see the Northern Alliance and George Bush as a tyrant (As an anarcho-communist I see almost all permanent governments tyrants). AmeriKKKan bombings have killed well over the number of people killed in the WTC and have already left the already deteriorating infrastructure of Afghanistan in ruins. And after this, they have only pledged $500m to the country.

In Iraq for example, AmeriKKKan led UN Sanctions have caused the deaths of over 500,000 children and another 1,500,000 adults.

Uhhh.... Im gonna have to ask that you prove this.


Also, Israel receives billions of dollars from AmeriKKKa largely which goes into their army and the oppression of the Palestinians.

Oh, I see... Its OUR fault because they choose to slaughter themselves with the money we give. Geez, is everything our friggin fault? I can tell your constipated today, that must be our fault too (sorry had to bring some humor in here):)

Uhhh.... Im gonna have to ask that you prove this.

I haven't got the time to look now so I'll find some later. If you want to look yourself I'm sure Amnesty should have some facts. Can I also point out that there are other figures out there which say that 2 million is the minimum number of deaths.


Oh, I see... Its OUR fault because they choose to slaughter themselves with the money we give.

That statement would prove that AmeriKKKa watches out for AmeriKKKa's own ass if that was the opinion of the government which it quite likely could be. AmeriKKKa has the chance to end the slaughter of innocent people both in Israel and Palestine but refuses to pretend that once they give that money to Israel they don't have any say in what happens with it.

That statement would prove that AmeriKKKa watches out for AmeriKKKa's own ass if that was the opinion of the government which it quite likely could be. AmeriKKKa has the chance to end the slaughter of innocent people both in Israel and Palestine but refuses to pretend that once they give that money to Israel they don't have any say in what happens with it.

Look, even if we stopped the money - THEY WOULD STILL KILL THEMSELVES!!!!

Why the fuck would they kill themselves. AmeriKKKa can force Israel back to the pre-1967 borders and give the Palestinians rule over themselves. The Palestinians would be happy because they could have their state in a larger piece of land then they now own and their elected leaders (as much as I despise governments) could be free to rule over them.

Why the fuck would they kill themselves.
:rolleyes:


Is this what you were talking about regarding the millions of deaths we have caused?

Iraq claims US, British uranium weapons to have caused deaths in the country (http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/990406/1999040615.html)

Im still searching... And if Im wrong let me know, If you can prove that we have killed millions of people, than I would even change my mind about America.

That has been a new concern but it isn't what I'm talking about. UN trade sanctions is what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by *stRgrL*

:rolleyes:


Is this what you were talking about regarding the millions of deaths we have caused?

Iraq claims US, British uranium weapons to have caused deaths in the country (http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/990406/1999040615.html)

Im still searching... And if Im wrong let me know, If you can prove that we have killed millions of people, than I would even change my mind about America.


Here you go, I am sure you can find lot more. Check out it is almost 5500 children dies every month. So human of us isn't it?

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/iraq/effects.shtml


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/iraq/

Now this is just terrible, Im still reading on it and haven't found any "good" coming out of this. I did find an article that we were stopping these sanctions.
Iraq denounces sanctions overhaul (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1988000/1988664.stm)

Take care

Originally posted by *stRgrL*
Now this is just terrible, Im still reading on it and haven't found any "good" coming out of this. I did find an article that we were stopping these sanctions.
Iraq denounces sanctions overhaul (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1988000/1988664.stm)

Take care

Ok here are more, Enough to keep ya busy.;)

http://dir.yahoo.com/Regional/Countries/Iraq/Government/Politics/U_S__U_N__Conflict/Economic_Sanctions/

"Why the fuck would they kill themselves. AmeriKKKa can force Israel back to the pre-1967 borders and give the Palestinians rule over themselves. The Palestinians would be happy because they could have their state in a larger piece of land then they now own and their elected leaders (as much as I despise governments) could be free to rule over them."

Israel offered this about 3 months ago. Palestinians refused. They said that on top of that they wanted Israel to let a MASSIVE amount of Palestinians into Israel. Which would mean that next election a Palestinian would become leader and Israel would cease to exist. So no, this could never happen. Peace will not come there until one side dies. And even then I doubt it will come.



As for your comments on Communism. Let me give you an idea. If Communism (I believe you are speaking of a Marxist-Leninist state, not just the basic 'government owns the means of production' definition of Communism) was attempted in my country, I would personally give my best effort to gain power and then abuse my power. If I was unable to do this, I would simply not work and be a leech on the system. It is people like me that make Communism impossible. Hello!




"In my opinion, communism has never been tried, only Stalinism and forms of it. Fair enough, you see capitalism as the best tool at present but I greatly disagree."

First off, before Stalin there was Communism. But yes, Communism in the USSR and such was NOT the ideal form of Communism.



"Yes but things should not always be about yourself. Helping others must always come before wealth."

Bulllllllllllllllllllshit. I don't believe you have the authority to tell me what I must do.




"What makes AmeriKKKan soldiers more 'precious' than any other person in the world. If they are unwilling to help others in trouble without something in return, it just shows that they care only about themselves and things that directly affect them."

If you were given the choice of me dieing or you dieing who would you choose.




"The you'll have to start ignoring me because I don't value my life at all. I would willingly give my life to the cause."

Same here. Actually, I'd be willing to give my life to save a meat sandwhich.




"Yes and do you know why many people from the ME danced on the streets? They really do not condone the senseless violence (some do) that was 9/11 but many are so pissed off and the global domination of AmeriKKKa and the effects that it has on their lives."

Actually, Moslem and Arabic people really didn't have much trouble in North America after Sept. 11th. Nothing like what was expected. There were lots of White Supremist clubs and rallies set up, but nothing actually happened. A few moskes set on fire, that's about it. Very few people actually danced on the streets, like you described. That video footage the news carried the day after was proved as false after.



"As for Afghanistan, AmeriKKKa 'doing good over there' is a very debatable issue. Yes, you may have got ridden of one tyranny but many people including myself see the Northern Alliance and George Bush as a tyrant (As an anarcho-communist I see almost all permanent governments tyrants). AmeriKKKan bombings have killed well over the number of people killed in the WTC and have already left the already deteriorating infrastructure of Afghanistan in ruins. And after this, they have only pledged $500m to the country"

Women can walk the streets. I would think as a left-winger you would see this as a good thing in the nation.



Welcome to sciforums. I'm happy to have a commie to debate with, it'll be a refreshing change!

Welcome to sciforums. I'm happy to have a commie to debate with, it'll be a refreshing change!

:D

Originally posted by BornOfZapatasGuns
I'm an anarcho-communist that should explain.

NO, it does not. Name me a trillion dollar state that is a model to you...

I haven't really read any of your other posts but I'll have a look at them over time. And anyway I didn't just arrive at my conclusions out of nowhere. I've argued and explained this enough times to make me sick.

Sickness? It happens when you see in black & white and can not understand people who see in color. That is one sad aspect of life. We can argue till cows come home, then we will part agreeing to disagree. It will make you sick, you may give your life to make a point,...and in the end you still can not see in color. It is not genetic...it is the refusal to learn the new paradigm...

Yes, you treated the people inside those building as your own because they were seen as innocent but as for the rest of the Middle Eastern people in the country, they were harassed and hated after 9/11. Why does it take someones death to bring them to an equal level. Just look at the treatment of Africans in AmeriKKKa for the past 400 years aswell as the Native peoples of the America's.

Those who are integrated into the American culture (not the European culture) have done well. Those nails who stuck out got hammered down. That is human nature and has nothing to do with the government. It happens in any country. Show me a country that I can move to without getting hammered down, I will MOVE.

But that money goes towards helping people. If these organisations don't want your ideas, then go found your own one. Every little bit helps.

That is my point. If we do not have money, how they are going to get? Dont forget, Ameican Muslims donate millions of dollars to Muslim causes worldwide. Are you telling me that they should stay poor and not have enough money to donate?

The you'll have to start ignoring me because I don't value my life at all. I would willingly give my life to the cause.

You do not know and can not see the cause. To you red and blue are the same. And since you do not value your life and willing to die for a thought rather than to protect other lives, your contribution to the society is negative. When that happens, the society will find a way (against their own ethics) to remove you and your kind for the good of the society. That is the reality. This even happened (and is happening) in Egypt! In fact American government is too goody-two-shoe to copy Egyptian methodology.