Sociedad Mexicana Nihilista - para Restaurar lo Sagrado de la Vida

La energía únicamente cambia de forma. Algunos de los estados en los que la energía puede existir son masa o luz. La masa puede ser llamada potencial, fría, sólida, etc. A la luz puede dársele el nombre de cinética, calida, fluida. Cuando nuestros abuelos vieron estos hermosos sucesos, percibieron que todo esta relacionado a unos u otros; Y así entendieron que todo en nuestro planeta también tiene estas dualidades incluyéndonos a nosotros mismos. Pues cada partícula en nuestros cuerpos fue alguna vez parte del naciente universo. Para ellos, nosotros los humanos no éramos alguna forma de seres extraterrestres. Sino que somos parte de esta energía y movimiento: el sistema solar. A su vez, el sistema solar es una molécula de nuestra galaxia, y nuestra galaxia del universo. Nuestros ancestros llamaron a este universo creador nuestro Ometeotl. Como resultado, los miembros de la comunidad del Anahuac obedecieron los ciclos que gobiernan nuestro planeta, todos los movimientos y reverberaciones que son Ometeotl.

SMN (http://www.anus.com/tribes/smn/)

So we've all heard how bad white racism is, and a few people acknowledge black racism. But is nationalism racism? Is wanting to be yourself so bad, as a culture? I'm finding I like these guys, even if I can barely translate the Spanish.

I have nothing against Nationalism.

So long as they stay the Hell out of my nation with it.

Be as Nationalist for Mexico as they want. If they come near my border, though, and attempt to cross illegally...

Be as Nationalist for Mexico as they want. If they come near my border, though, and attempt to cross illegally...

I assume you are talking about your garden fence.

I have nothing against Nationalism.

So long as they stay the Hell out of my nation with it.

Be as Nationalist for Mexico as they want. If they come near my border, though, and attempt to cross illegally...

What about Greco-Americans, they seem about as nationalist as they get.

SO long as the Greeks aren't trying to establish Neo-Greece on American soil, I have no problem in love of their prior culture. That is, so long as they also learn English and assimilate otherwise.

SO long as the Greeks aren't trying to establish Neo-Greece on American soil, I have no problem in love of their prior culture. That is, so long as they also learn English and assimilate otherwise.

The US doesn't have an official language.

The US government mayn't, but the US culture does, and culture is prior to, and ultimately more important than, the transitory government.

. . . US culture . . .
what, pray tell, is US culture?

Leopold99:

US culture is...US culture. That is a rather simple tautology, no?

It is like asking what English or French culture is.

So we've all heard how bad white racism is, and a few people acknowledge black racism. But is nationalism racism? Is wanting to be yourself so bad, as a culture? I'm finding I like these guys, even if I can barely translate the Spanish.This is not difficult to translate. The Spanish is fairly elementary, yet not colloquial. I wonder if it was written by a university student for whom it is a second language, such as a second-generation American from a Latino family. What is difficult is to make sense of it.

"Mexican Nihilist Society: To restore that which is sacred in life

Energy alone is able to change form. Among the states in which energy can exist are mass and light. Mass can be called potential, cold, solid, etc. Light can be called kinetic, warm, fluid. When our grandparents saw these beautiful accomplishments, they perceived that all things are related to each other. And thus they understood that everything else on our planet has these dualities, including we ourselves. So, every particle in our bodies was once part of the nascent universe. For them, we humans were not some kind of extraterrestrials. We are but part of this energy and movement: the solar system. In turn, the solar system is one molecule in the galaxy, and our galaxy, likewise of the universe. Our ancestors named this universe Our Creator Ometeotl. As a result the members of the community of Anahuac observed the cycles that govern our planet, all the motions and reactions that are Ometeotl."

It's hard to fathom why anyone would find this threatening. "Sophomoric" is the word that comes to mind. It smacks of university students with too much time on their hands and not enough upper-level courses on their transcripts. In any case I don't agree that this is a nationalist sentiment. If anything it seems to be transcendent, implying that all nations are one people, and that all people are merely a component of the universe. It is certainly not racist.

Ometeotl is an Aztec god of duality: he has both a masculine and feminine persona. He is a perfect mascot for a philosophy that stresses duality.

Anahuac is the Aztec language name of a location in pre-Columbian Mexico, but the name is said to also occur in other related languages of the Indians of the southwestern USA, suggesting a legend that goes back thousands of years into the diaspora of the first "Amerind" wave of migrants into the Americas from Siberia ca. 15,000BCE. This unremarkable oral history of preliterate nomadic tribes is consistent with the Aztecs' legend about arriving in central Mexico after a long trek that started more or less in southern California.

The name Anahuac (like another name for the Aztec homeland, Aztlán) has been co-opted by extremist groups agitating for a reunification of former Mexican land taken by the U.S. by military force--a movement that gets a lot of press but does not have the support to warrant being taken seriously. I see no indication that the Mexican Nihilist Society has any connection to this movement; they just happen to also find charm in the symbology of the name Anahuac.

i know that the "la raza" is racist.

i know that the "la raza" is racist.There is more than one "Chicano Power" movement. Some of them use "la raza" as a rallying cry, some of them are racist, and some of them fall into both categories. This thread was started with a reference to a specific movement, the Mexican Nihilist Society. The phrase "la raza" does not appear anywhere in the quote that was posted and not only do I not find anything remotely racist in it, but if anything its philosophy is transcendent and anti-racist.

Chicano Power is a phenomenon of second-generation Mexican-Americans in their late teens and early twenties, the kids who wake up in their university dormitory one morning exclaiming, "My god, my parents never even taught me to speak Spanish." Most of them seem to outgrow it in adulthood without passing it on to their own children, who by the third generation are thoroughly assimilated.

Geez, so now you know all about the Chicano movement in the USA ...as well as the politics of Virginia, as well as the history of man, as well as the history of argiculture, as well as .....hmmm, what else are you an authority on, Fraggle?

Baron Max

I lived in the Southwest for most of my life, I speak Spanish, I've hung out with Chicanos since they called themselves Mexicans (I was the only Anglo in an East L.A. rock band), and the last time I was in L.A. I tracked down the store named Aztlán and chatted with the people who run it (in perfect English).

For the last five years I've lived in the Washington DC area and I know people who are active in both Maryland and Virginia politics. I was practically attacked by pig-lovin' rednecks for speaking out in sympathy for the family of the teenager who was killed by a Fairfax County cop over a $30 dollar pancake house tab and the family of the optometrist who was killed by another Fairfax County cop for running a gambling operation--but not the traditional all-American Friday night police poker game. You can't live here and not know all about Senator Allen's "macaca" gaffe and the furor about the proposed elevated Metro railway over Tyson's Corner or the feud between northern and southern Virginia. I also cheered Montgomery County police chief Moose who caught the Beltway Snipers and tried to create an I Heart Moose bumper sticker but couldn't get it to market fast enough.

I've been a linguist for fifty years and my slant on anthropology is identifiably based in language history, something a number of members have commented on, often critically. My unremarkable and uncontroversial knowledge of the dawn of agriculture is no greater than what you could pull off of a Google search in five minutes.

Nonetheless, some of my understanding of prehistory comes from reading the daily paper. The Washington Post covered the discovery of figs as the earliest known cultivated crop last year. I still have the February 23 front page article on my desk reporting the discovery of a tribe of chimpanzees in Senegal who have been observed building spears to hunt small game; just haven't gotten around to sharing that one yet.

Yep, Fraggle, you're one hot-shot, highly educated, highly knowledgeable, know-it-all. :D

I do wish, however, that you'd learn to post shorter, more to-the-point posts. Your continued long, involved, drawn-out bullshit is tiring at best. It also makes me wonder when you have time for you studies of all of those fields of which you'r such an expert?

Baron Max

Well, you know what Abe Lincoln said: "I'm writing you a long letter because I don't have time to write a short one."

I don't study assiduously, so much as remember things I've already learned.

I appreciate the constructive criticism.

I have nothing against Nationalism.

So long as they stay the Hell out of my nation with it.

Be as Nationalist for Mexico as they want. If they come near my border, though, and attempt to cross illegally...

Then what?
You'll complain about it on the internet?

Roman:

I support groups financially that will deal with them if the Federal Government won't, as I live in NYC as opposed to a border state.

Leopold99:

US culture is...US culture. That is a rather simple tautology, no?



You mean TV, piss weak beer and blowing up children?

Sociedad Mexicana Nihilista - para Restaurar lo Sagrado de la Vida

I dont speak much spanish but does this have anything to do with the teachings of Marcos?

This is not difficult to translate. The Spanish is fairly elementary, yet not colloquial. I wonder if it was written by a university student for whom it is a second language, such as a second-generation American from a Latino family. What is difficult is to make sense of it.

It's hard to fathom why anyone would find this threatening. "Sophomoric" is the word that comes to mind. It smacks of university students with too much time on their hands and not enough upper-level courses on their transcripts. In any case I don't agree that this is a nationalist sentiment. If anything it seems to be transcendent, implying that all nations are one people, and that all people are merely a component of the universe. It is certainly not racist.
It is actually that I was the first Mexican(-"American," born/raised young in South L.A.) to volunteer in starting this NUS Tribe, yet unfortunately I was never taught Spanish (I grew up in Washington) so Koatl our staff member en Mexico does the translations...

What in particular seemed coming from underacheived knowledge? We enjoy constructive criticism, as our organization is new so has much growing to do.

We do uphold transcendence, but also Nationalism... We know humans may have come from common origins, but we also admit that evolutionary patterns changed them -- so the Mexica ("Aztecs") were just that, Mexica, though they claimed their roots were in the Chichimecs some who became inspired by the Toltecs. That was the Identity. Most Mexicanos are the descendants of Chichimeca/Maya peoples, so we are not separate from them...we are not all equal - we are not the same as Germans, Chinese, etc. Our ethnoculture remains unique, and as Pan-Nationalists we believe in pride of heritage as well as world diversity (meaning each group is autonomous / should not have to assimilate to another).

Anyone read news accounts of Mexican nationals' reactions to US border fence construction crew members crossing over the US-Mexico border during their construction activities?

"Unjustified and criminal violation of Our National Mexican Sovereignty!!!!!"

What a pack of cards. http://www.sciforums.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Sociedad Mexicana Nihilista - para Restaurar lo Sagrado de la Vida -- I dont speak much spanish but does this have anything to do with the teachings of Marcos?I assume you mean the Marcos guy who Googles up when I type in "Marcos Mexico Nationalism." I'm not about to wade through all that rhetoric to figure out what his "teachings" are. Since you are familiar with them, could you summarize it? My first reaction is that since these people are not militant, I don't see how they could have much in common with Marcos. Except rhetoric of course, which in many cultures carries more weight than it does in ours.It is actually that I was the first Mexican(-"American," born/raised young in South L.A.) to volunteer in starting this NUS Tribe, yet unfortunately I was never taught Spanish (I grew up in Washington) so Koatl our staff member en Mexico does the translations.Hmm... So you're one of the people I'm talking about. You're an American who was raised as an American. You don't even speak Spanish so your familiarity with Mexican culture isn't much deeper than mine--an Anglo who at least has limited fluency in the language. Yet you want to reestablish your roots in a culture you never had. What a uniquely American phenomenon. :)What in particular seemed coming from underacheived knowledge?Sorry, I don't understand your question. "Underachieved knowledge" is not my wording so I can't relate your question to the particular part of my previous posting to which it refers. Please be more specific.As Pan-Nationalists we believe in pride of heritage as well as world diversity (meaning each group is autonomous / should not have to assimilate to another).No community should have to assimilate into another except voluntarily. Yet "transcendence" implies that the differences between communities will continue to be leveled, as they have been for 10,000 years since we started building cities. I have seen most of the cultural differences between Americans from the North and the South vanish during my lifetime. The differences between Italians and Irishmen are disappearing now that both countries are members of the E.U. Mandarin will soon be the language of Hong Kong and Cantonese will become a dead language.

These changes are inexorable: That's what "transcendence" means. The bulldozer is coming and it will not stop for any reason. Please don't stand in front of it.

I think that most of those that "claim" Southern part of the US as "occupied Mexican territories" are racists.

Hmm... So you're one of the people I'm talking about. You're an American who was raised as an American. You don't even speak Spanish so your familiarity with Mexican culture isn't much deeper than mine--an Anglo who at least has limited fluency in the language. Yet you want to reestablish your roots in a culture you never had. What a uniquely American phenomenon. :)
Many people don't seem to care about cultural revival (http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/culture/)...they'd rather stick with Modern society's "quality culture." (http://www.corrupt.org/data/vision/modern_culture.jpg) (?) But the Nihilist Underground Societies don't care for that, and since "democracy" is reigning more and more in the West, don't we have the "freedom" to do as we prefer? o_O

Modernists choose to give up on their heritage altogether since "there's no hope, we're assimilated." Black Panthers might admit they can never return to Africa (unless they started a new nation like the Liberia attempt at repatriation), but they remain a different people (unless you want to call them same/equal to Anglos just because they speak English) so recognize the need for autonomy. ...No one is separate from their ancestors -- we are the product of them -- so healthy people have pride (http://www.nihil.org/nihilist/issue1/pride/) in their greatest acheivements and strive to continue a great legacy. I hadn't mentioned that my family associated with the Mexicanos in Washington, so the culture IS familiar to me, I just wasn't around them enough to keep up Spanish thanks to integration/"multiculturalism" (http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/multiculturalism/). :p

Sorry, I don't understand your question. "Underachieved knowledge" is not my wording so I can't relate your question to the particular part of my previous posting to which it refers. Please be more specific.
"It smacks of university students with too much time on their hands and not enough upper-level courses on their transcripts."

These changes are inexorable: That's what "transcendence" means. The bulldozer is coming and it will not stop for any reason. Please don't stand in front of it.
I think you misunderstand transcendence as passivity/fatalism, or think these as compenents of it. There's no set-in-stone guarantee Globalism (http://www.corrupt.org/data/faq/#3.7) will be 100% successfull in making nations like America (mixed-race monoculturalism/contra-Tradition (http://www.juliusevola.com/julius_evola/traditionalism.html)).

http://www.anus.com/etc/fliers/images/demolition.jpg

There will be an Ingles language version of SMN at our geocities mirror site. One of our goals is to make a bridge between Mexicanos and Chicanos that only speak English, to transcend what separates us.

Sociedad Mexicana Nihilista - para Restaurar lo Sagrado de la Vida

La energía únicamente cambia de forma. Algunos de los estados en los que la energía puede existir son masa o luz. La masa puede ser llamada potencial, fría, sólida, etc. A la luz puede dársele el nombre de cinética, calida, fluida. Cuando nuestros abuelos vieron estos hermosos sucesos, percibieron que todo esta relacionado a unos u otros; Y así entendieron que todo en nuestro planeta también tiene estas dualidades incluyéndonos a nosotros mismos. Pues cada partícula en nuestros cuerpos fue alguna vez parte del naciente universo. Para ellos, nosotros los humanos no éramos alguna forma de seres extraterrestres. Sino que somos parte de esta energía y movimiento: el sistema solar. A su vez, el sistema solar es una molécula de nuestra galaxia, y nuestra galaxia del universo. Nuestros ancestros llamaron a este universo creador nuestro Ometeotl. Como resultado, los miembros de la comunidad del Anahuac obedecieron los ciclos que gobiernan nuestro planeta, todos los movimientos y reverberaciones que son Ometeotl.

SMN (http://www.anus.com/tribes/smn/)

So we've all heard how bad white racism is, and a few people acknowledge black racism. But is nationalism racism? Is wanting to be yourself so bad, as a culture? I'm finding I like these guys, even if I can barely translate the Spanish.


In my opinion, nationalism is about the natives of that given nation. American to me, includes all the people who built this country up from it's foundation, and their family lines. To be an American you have to have a bloodline here that goes back generations, at least if you want to be a "native" American. I think it also includes culture, you have to be able to speak English, and know some basics.

I don't think there is a such thing as a black or a white race, I think these tribes were falsely created to confuse both black people and white people into hating each other. Most Americans are the same American race genetically, so Americans divide each other by appearance, and it's a false division that in my opinion weakens America, because if you think about it, the majority of us share the same Ancestors whether we know it or not.

In fact, Al Sharpton for example is related to Strom Thurmond. That's the difference, in Mexico, and in Latin America, they don't divide their culture and so society into White Latin America and Black Latin America, they seem more united and more connected. In the United States, you have blacks and whites, who share the same Ancestors, same history, same language, being racist towards each others appearances.

Look at it like this, in Europe, even though most people speak different languages, have different cultures, and are different races, it seems that just because they share skin genes and speak English, they can get along. So you see that people who look similar can be united even when they are completely different races and cultures, based on this mythical idea of "whiteness". The problem is, and it's really simple, whiteness is currently defined as a skin-color and not a culture. If whiteness is defined as cultural purity, the race lines would be vastly different. There are many, maybe even a majority of "minority" Americans who are culturally white. They do not speak any language other than English, and they know American/European culture as much as any American or European, so culturally they are pretty much the same. The only difference being that they have a different appearance.

Then you have the other people, the people who can barely speak English at all, and the group that goes around acting like thugs and criminals. You have the hooligans. These people do not fit into society and are outcasted, but this group of people are not the majority of any society. This group of people has people who have white skin and blonde hair, to brown skin and black hair, and all ranges in between.

I don't judge groups by their appearance. I judge by their behavior. There has to be some behavior, that we all, as different appearances and cultures define as completely unacceptable, and we then have to work together as ifferent appearances and cultures to tackle these destructive behaviors that shame us all, and all of our races, in specific shames the human race itself.

I think we need inter-action between different cultures so that we may learn from and work with each other. So too much xenophobia, nationalism, and seperatism in my opinion could be harmful, but I do think you should be proud of your culture, and in order to do that you need to be selective with who gets into it. Just letting people in because they look similar or have white skin in my opinion is not a good mechanism. I think it's also bad for black people to accept all these thugs and criminal types as members of their cultural group. And no, if Mexicans accept their thugs and criminals and think we Americans should just accept them when they cross the border, they are wrong too. I'm for letting in immigrants, the right immigrants.

Modernists choose to give up on their heritage altogether since "there's no hope, we're assimilated." Black Panthers might admit they can never return to Africa (unless they started a new nation like the Liberia attempt at repatriation), but they remain a different people (unless you want to call them same/equal to Anglos just because they speak English) so recognize the need for autonomy. ...No one is separate from their ancestors -- we are the product of them


That's all fine and all, but the problem is, we share Ancestors. Malcom X had European Ancestors, as much as a seperatist as he was. I think it's more likely that people who join seperatist groups, deny the part of their heritage that they dislike, for political reasons. During the time of Malcom X, the Black Panthers made sense, the laws were unjust, and there was segregation. This reaction was predictable. Wouldnt white people have done the exact same thing?

The problem is, heritage is never going to be simple in America. There is no "black" or "white" heritage, theres different tribes for both. Unless a person can trace back to their tribal bloodline it's not even going to be possible to map heritage with such a degree of accuracy. The result is, the majority of people in this country, and in America in general are of mixed heritage, and they just choose one or the other, based on their appearance. The whole white and blackness in my opinion confuses people even more. Two kids could be born to the same mother and father, one could be black and the other could be white, and both could share the same genetics, and if they grow up to fight each other and be racist towards each other, that accurately describes how America is.

Then you have native Americans mixed into both the black and white bloodlines, linking us even further .At this point I don't think theres a point to these appearance based identities because they don't tell people what you are, perhaps they never truly did but now they don't tell a person much anything other than how you look. Should we define the American race based on the percentage of Native American Tribal genes? We'd have a different matrix entirely from the false black and white setup we have now.

All I can say is, it's complicated. I'll support cultural tribes, but I will not support appearance based identities. If you want to identify with your appearance, you are on your own. I don't trust any of the appearances. I only care how the person thinks and acts.

Many people don't seem to care about cultural revival they'd rather stick with Modern society's quality culture.And it has always been thus. For ten thousand years people have been leaving their tribal lives behind to become part of the nearest civilization. The reason is that they prefer it. In so doing they bring their culture with them and it's not lost, it becomes part of the whole.But the Nihilist Underground Societies don't care for that, and since "democracy" is reigning more and more in the West, don't we have the "freedom" to do as we prefer?Yes of course. But there are some basic rules in every nation that make it run smoothly and people who don't want to follow those rules have to go live in another nation. I don't see that these Nihilists want to violate any of the rules of American society so as far as I'm concerned they're free to follow their dream here. Apparently you don't even break what other people see as rules and I don't, such as insisting on speaking a language other than English.

America is plenty big enough to accommodate people who want to form their own little communities and pursue their own goals. Go for it, Ese.Modernists choose to give up on their heritage altogether since "there's no hope, we're assimilated."Excuse me, but what "heritage" is that? My grandparents on one side fled the country they were in because they were being stifled by the Catholic Church. To them the freedom to be atheists and not have to buy fish from the church's lake every Friday was precious. That is my "heritage." One set of great-grandparents on the other side also left the country they were in because they were persecuted by a different branch of Christians. Their child, my grandparent, married a Christian American and attended Christian services to keep her happy, even though he was not religious. He thought America's tradition of religious freedom was so precious that he felt no need to protest against religion any more. That is also my "heritage." Most Americans do not marry other people from their own bloodlines so very few of us have a coherent "heritage" that extends beyone our national boundary.

Our "heritage" is America, even if it's not a very long line of heritage. I suppose what so many Americans are really angry about when they rail against certain immigrants is the idea that said immigrants don't think what they've found in America is precious and they'd rather have something else. I'm not sure that they're right because much of what they're seeing is a mix of nostalgia and the first generation's difficulty in adapting, but perhaps they just don't see it that way and I do.No one is separate from their ancestors -- we are the product of them.Hmmm. In America we believe that we are more the product of where we live than where our distant ancestors lived. So I guess most of us disagree very strongly with that statement. Many of us have ancestors we're downright ashamed of and hope to be nothing like them at all. Look at all the Americans from old families who once owned slaves!"It smacks of university students with too much time on their hands and not enough upper-level courses on their transcripts."I see. I was simply referring to the fact that this treatise looks like a paper submitted for a university class, not one written by a person who has lived real life outside of academia. I think you misunderstand transcendence as passivity/fatalism, or think these as compenents of it.I suppose they are to an extent. Still, people resist transcendence every day. Much of what's going on in the Middle East is bascially resistance to transcendence. You have to admit, the most high-profile transcendence resistors are giving the whole movement a really bad reputation.There's no set-in-stone guarantee Globalism will be 100% successfull in making nations like America (mixed-race monoculturalism/contra-Tradition).Well how about the fact that civilization has been moving inexorably in that direction for ten thousand years? This late in the process, what reason has sprung up to stop it now?In my opinion, nationalism is about the natives of that given nation. American to me, includes all the people who built this country up from it's foundation, and their family lines. To be an American you have to have a bloodline here that goes back generations, at least if you want to be a "native" American. I think it also includes culture, you have to be able to speak English, and know some basics.That's a really unconventional definition and it excludes some of our most famous Americans whose families only came over at the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th. The people who founded Atlantic Records, Sun Microsystems, the Speaker of the House, the Governor of California, many of our favorite entertainers. Me, for that matter, most of my ancestors arrived after the Civil War. If I'm not an American, what the heck am I? I have no connection to any other country; even the foreign languages I speak halfway decently are not the ones of my ancestors.Then you have the other people, the people who can barely speak English at allYes, one of them got to be President. Apparently it's not much of a handicap or a stigma.

Well, you know what Abe Lincoln said: "I'm writing you a long letter because I don't have time to write a short one."

I don't study assiduously, so much as remember things I've already learned.

I appreciate the constructive criticism.

That Lincoln quotation reminds me of an anecdote attributed to Sir Winston:

'If I have to speak for five minutes, I need two weeks to prepare. If I must speak for fifteen minutes, give me a week to prepare. If I am to speak for an hour, I am ready now.'