What is it that differentiates "memes" from "ideas". I saw an interview with the guy who came up with the idea, and everything he said seemed to me to fit under the title "idea". Thoughts moving from person to person, spreading - sounds like an idea to me. Is this guy simply creating a new word for "idea" to get famous?

Yes, a meme is basically an idea. However, a meme is a special and significant idea. It has been around so long and become such a part of society that it is no longer recognized as the simple idea it started as. The recognition and study of this is new and important.

"I think that a new kind of replicator has recently emerged on this very planet. It is staring
us in the face. It is in its infancy, still drifting clumsily about in its primeval soup, but already
it is achieving evolutionary change at a rate that leaves the old gene panting far behind.
The new soup is the soup of human culture. We need a name for the new replicator, a noun
that conveys the idea of a unit of cultural transmission, or a unit of imitation. 'Mimeme'
comes from a suitable Greek root, but I want a monosyllable that sounds a bit like 'gene'. I
hope my classicist friends will forgive me if I abbreviate mimeme to meme. If it is any
consolation, it could alternatively be thought of as being related to 'memory', or to the French
word même. It should be pronounced to rhyme with 'cream.'
Examples of memes are tunes, ideas, catch-phrases, clothes fashions, ways of making pots or
of building arches. Just as genes propagate themselves in the gene pool by leaping from body
to body via sperms and eggs, so memes propagate themselves in the meme pool by leaping
from brain to brain via a process which, in the broad sense, can be called imitation. If a
scientist hears, or reads about, a good idea, he passes it on to his colleagues and students. He
mentions it in his articles and his lectures. If the idea catches on, it can be said to propagate
itself, spreading from brain to brain"

Source: the selfish gene by Richard Dawkins

What he describes is, well, an idea...

Yes, but he is saying the idea actually does something. Like any virus that is capable of infecting you and making you sick. That is the way I see anyway. But I have to say, I'm new to all of this as well so I could be explaining it incorrectly - still learning all the in's and out's so to speak. If this topic interests you, in my opinion, you should read "the selfish gene". Very interesting read. :)

But the way ideas move around from one to another and stick in the mind is well-covered by psychology. He describes nothing new, simply a new word, for which he has become famous.

It seems to me the guy created the word "memes" and the idea spread as ideas do (as he claims memes do), and he's making money off it. To which he might say "Look, I created a meme, it spread as I say memes do, and it's now part of our culture".

But the way ideas move around from one to another and stick in the mind is well-covered by psychology.
Psychology deals with the human mind. The study of memes is more macro. It is the study of how these certain ideas affect human culture.

It seems to me the guy created the word "memes" and the idea spread as ideas do (as he claims memes do), and he's making money off it. To which he might say "Look, I created a meme, it spread as I say memes do, and it's now part of our culture".
I wouldn't call it a meme yet as it hasn't adapted or become a part of culture yet. But, yes I suppose the idea of memes can be a meme just as 'word' is a word.

Do you still not see the difference between an idea and a meme? All memes are ideas but not all ideas are memes..

I saw an interview with the guy
If you don't mind my asking - what was the guys name?
Was it Richard Dawkins? Richard Brodie? Or someone
else?

Originally posted by EvilPoet
If you don't mind my asking - what was the guys name?
Was it Richard Dawkins? Richard Brodie? Or someone
else?
I don't remember at all, but it was the guy who came up with it, or so they said.

Psychology absolutely covers communication, sociology, the movement of ideas from one person to another.

adam

your mind seems to be made up. why even bother with a discussion? aint there any fresh massacre of innocents to report??

Adam,

As I understand it Richard Dawkins was the one who came up
with it but I would have to double check to be sure. Anyway, if
you happen to remember the name please let me know - I'm
just curious no biggy. :)

I wish someone to explain why "meme" is not simply a new word for "idea". Since all properties of "memes" I have ever heard of are already covered by the word "idea", what is there apart from fame and money in what this guy sells?

MEME: An idea that, like a gene, can replicate and evolve. Examples of memes (and meme systems) include political theories, proselytizing religions, and the idea of memes itself.

Originally posted by Pine_net
MEME: An idea that, like a gene, can replicate and evolve. Examples of memes (and meme systems) include political theories, proselytizing religions, and the idea of memes itself.

Ideas replicate. Ideas evolve. Political theories are ideas, as are religions, as is the meme. There is nothing in what you have said that does not come under the meaning of "idea".

Originally posted by Adam
I wish someone to explain why "meme" is not simply a new word for "idea".
Why don't you read about it and figure it out for yourself?
Have you read anything about it? Or is all you know what
you have seen on TV?

Adam,
Why do we have the word 'sparrow'? I mean, why don't we just call all birds 'birds' and be done with it? Oh wait, because language is a form of communication and the more specific a language can be, the better the communication.

A meme is a specific type of idea. Read pine's definition. Using the word 'meme' is easier than saying 'an idea that has replicated and evolved over time'.

At any rate the word itself is not the important part. The important thing is the recognition and study of these memes.

Originally posted by EvilPoet
Why don't you read about it and figure it out for yourself?
Have you read anything about it? Or is all you know what
you have seen on TV?
Do you perchance have a link to the full work?

Originally posted by fadingCaptain
Using the word 'meme' is easier than saying 'an idea that has replicated and evolved over time'.

I use the word "idea" for that.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=idea

Originally posted by Adam
Do you perchance have a link to the full work?
Nope. Got the books but no link to the full work. However, I do
have these links which you are more than welcome to. :D

The Selfish Gene (http://www.world-of-dawkins.com/Dawkins/Work/Books/selfish.htm)

Meme Central (http://www.memecentral.com)

Originally posted by Adam
I use the word "idea" for that.




good for you adam
now that everything is resolved, you can go back to sitting on your finger

Evilpoet:
Thanks, a good start.

Spookz:
I'm sure some day you will have a point, or some kind of valuable contribution. Keep working at it, you'll get there.

Adam,

You are welcome. Maybe you could let us know what you
think after you read up on it a bit more. I know I would be
interested. Anyway, gatta get going. Cya later. :cool:

http://fp.bio.utk.edu/wisdom/Essays/against_the_selfish_gene.htm
http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~phoenix/Lit/meme-ess.html
http://www.mdx.ac.uk/www/psychology/cog/psy3260/dawkins.htm
http://fates.cns.muskingum.edu/~psych/psycweb/history/dawkins.htm


All interesting, different sides of it and different things to read. I'm currently waiting on my confirmation from Nature magazine to come through so I can read more there.

So far, it seems to me that The Selfish Gene is to evolutionary psychology what The Naked Ape is to evolutionary theory.

Originally posted by Adam
Spookz:
I'm sure some day you will have a point, or some kind of valuable contribution. Keep working at it, you'll get there.


thanks you are too kind

ps:do you not tire of having your finger outstreched all the time?

"All interesting, different sides of it and different things to read."

Thanks for the links. :)

Here is another:

The Lifecycle of Memes (http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Cultural/Memetics/memecycle.html)

"So far, it seems to me that The Selfish Gene is to evolutionary
psychology what The Naked Ape is to evolutionary theory."

"Clearly, then, the city is not a concrete jungle,
it is a human zoo." -Desmond Morris

"We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom
realise that we are apes." -Richard Dawkins