View Full Version : Math


Aer
08-21-05, 09:06 PM
Does anyone wish to solve the following quadradic equation for x<sub>2</sub>?

x<sub>2</sub><sup>2</sup>(1-(v/c)<sup>2</sup>) - x<sub>2</sub>(x<sub>0</sub>+(v/c)y) + x<sub>0</sub><sup>2</sup>-2x<sub>0</sub>(v/c)y = 0

superluminal
08-21-05, 09:13 PM
What a mess. I have it in the standard form [-b +/- sqrt(b^2 -4AC)]/2A but all the squaring and multiplying and square-rooting... ugh.

James R
08-21-05, 09:14 PM
Just use the quadratic formula.

Aer
08-21-05, 09:15 PM
I wanted to use a symbolic solver but can't locate my calculator :/

The quadradic forumla is a bigger mess, try it.

superluminal
08-21-05, 09:15 PM
I did. A mess.

Aer
08-21-05, 09:16 PM
Any online symbolic calculators?

superluminal
08-21-05, 09:18 PM
x<sub>0</sub> + sqrt[(x<sub>0</sub>+(v/c)y)<sup>2</sup> - 4(1-(v/c)<sup>2</sup>)(x<sub>0</sub><sup>2</sup>-2x<sub>0</sub>(v/c)y)]
x<sub>2</sub> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(2-2(v/c)<sup>2</sup>)

James R
08-21-05, 09:21 PM
Superluminal's solution is fine. You can use that.

Aer
08-21-05, 09:22 PM
I already had that, I don't like that :( You're mean James R.

James R
08-21-05, 09:25 PM
What's the relevance of the quadratic equation, anyway?

superluminal
08-21-05, 09:27 PM
Yeah, anyway?

Aer
08-21-05, 09:31 PM
This is a math forum is it not? I posted a math question did I not? Does there have to be any meaning? ;)

James R
08-21-05, 09:32 PM
No, that's fine Aer. Whatever.

superluminal
08-21-05, 09:33 PM
I see your little winky face. What devilishness are you plotting?

Aer
08-21-05, 09:37 PM
x<sub>2</sub> should be the apparent distance between two objects taking into account special relativity and photon travel delay.

James R
08-21-05, 10:04 PM
What are x<sub>0</sub>, y, c and v?

Aer
08-21-05, 10:10 PM
x<sub>0</sub> is not the proper length. (you probably won't like the notation).

Anyway, x<sub>0</sub> is the distance between 2 objects moving at the same speed v relative to the observer as special relativity would give. ( i.e. x<sub>0</sub>=l=l<sub>0</sub>/&gamma; ) This can be measured directly if the observer is directly in the middle of the two observers such that photons take the same amount of time to travel to the observer. However, for any other case, there is going to be a photon travel time delay which can be calculated if y is the distance between the objects and observer (perpendicular distance to travel of the objects that is). c is the speed of light.

Aer
08-21-05, 10:13 PM
Furthermore, I should stipulate, that x<sub>2</sub> was a special case when object A is directly perpendicular to the observer because that is the case I am interested in.

Like this:

A&lt;-----x<sub>2</sub>-----&gt;B -->v



O

Aer
08-21-05, 10:24 PM
If you don't think I approached it right, here were all my steps:

t<sub>0</sub> is the point in time when O would be directly between A and B.

t<sub>2</sub> is when object A is directly perpendicular to O.

t<sub>1</sub> is when object B gives off a photon that O would measure at the same time the photon from A as given off at time t<sub>2</sub> would reach O.

t<sub>3</sub> is when the photons from A & B, both reach O.

t<sub>2</sub> = x<sub>0</sub>/(2V)

t<sub>3</sub> = t<sub>2</sub> + y/c

t<sub>3</sub> = t<sub>1</sub> + sqrt(y<sup>2</sup>+x<sub>2</sub><sup>2</sup>)/c

x<sub>2</sub> = x<sub>0</sub>/2 + vt<sub>1</sub>

which lead to the equation in the OP.

Aer
08-22-05, 12:35 AM
I am almost certain that there was an error in going from the 4 equations above to the equation in the OP but I am too tired to find out where I screwed up.

oxymoron
08-22-05, 02:12 AM
I wish sciforums supported LaTeX.

Aer
08-22-05, 10:45 AM
OK - the equation in the OP is wrong.

Anyway, the solution is:

x<sub>2</sub> = &gamma;<sup>2</sup>(x<sub>0</sub>+(v/c)*(y-sqrt(y<sup>2</sup>+x<sub>0</sub><sup>2</sup>+2x<sub>0</sub>y(v/c))))


I doubt it simplifies much more.

And I believe it is correct because x<sub>2</sub> should approach x<sub>0</sub> as v goes to 0 which clearly is the case in the equation above.