I'm just curious as to what everyone thinks about Martial Arts - whether or not its worth spending years of study on, what you percieve the benefits to be, and your experience(s) relating to it.

I mainly do Hapkido, Judo, and Kum Sul Do (Korean Weapons fighting art), but with touches of Tae Kwon Do, Ninjitsu, Kali/Arnis, and Silat.

Hapkido is kind of a mix of all the best traditional arts that you would think of, extremely well rounded and huge in breadth and amount of techniques. Ninjitsu and Silat are reputably 'excessively messy, vicious and efficient'. Lots of the techniques I learn in those arts are 'last ditch' things. (And, dive rolling over fences really impresses the ladies ;) ) The mentality of Silat is ultra-aggressive, kind of like 'I'm going to take this guy out, and who cares if I get injured on the way.' Which, of course is why I think it is so cool. Then you have Kum Sul Do and Kali - which basically teach you to use every weapon you can imagine - hell, if you're carrying a bag full of grocercies, you likely have a veritable arsenal of weapons.

I do this mainly for self-defense reasons (I like to know that if and when I ever get in a situation, I'll be the one in control, by light years). And also to help with my overall fitness and discipline.

Now, to wrap up this roundabout ramble, what do you guys think?

-Distortion

Karate, Tae Kwan Doe and all that are overrated in actual fighting.

Watch Ultimate Fighting you'll understand what I mean.

Jiu Jit Su is the best form (from Japan). Royce Gracie is awesome :cool:

Any form of wrestling will win you fights in the streets, most fights end up in wrestling 90% of the time, all that crap in movies are a bunch of bullshit.

Hmm, well, I will affirm you about Karate & Tae Kwon Do being mostly useless except for aesthetic purposes. That's why I said I do a 'touch' of Tae Kwon Do - I wouldn't otherwise waste my time, I simply say that because my Hapkido instructor has a 5th Dan (Degree) black belt in the art, so there is probably a touch of TKD in what he teaches.

I've whatched Ultimate Fighting - but even it is not entirely realistic, as comparable to a streetfight, and alot of the stuff isn't geared towards people that know what they are doing.

You've got a few key differences.

a) In UFC, you're not allowed to kill, maim, break the bones of, bite, hit in the groin, or anything like that. You can't run, hide, or otherwise take a leave.

b) Secondly, these are seasoned fighters, and none of what they are learning is for fighting people that don't know what they are doing. On the street, you may just want to restrain that 'drunk at the bar' that grabs you, as opposed to breaking 3 of his bones before he hits the ground.

c) Third, in UFC there are no weapons, and in real life - you can use practically anything as a weapon, everything from a coke can, to a ball point pen, to a pool cue, to your clothes. Not so in one of these staged 'competitions'. Besides, in a real fight you have to consider your environment, and the fact that there is usually more to it than just a 1 v 1 fight.

Yes, the Gracies are awesome - but I love my Hapkido - it takes all the good stuff from Jui Jitsu and adds it in with some wicked kicking and striking techniques, some judo grappling, a fair bit of weapons fighting, and a bunch of other stuff. That's why it's an 'electic' or 'evolved' martial art.

Any form of wrestling will win you fights in the streets, most fights end up in wrestling 90% of the time, all that crap in movies are a bunch of bullshit.

Ehhh, wrong. Just about any form of training in the art of hand-to-hand combat will 'win you fights in the street' - against someone who doesn't know what they are doing. But, get me to fight to the death with a wrestling guy, and I'll rip him a new one, seriously. You may say that '90 percent of fights end up on the ground' but your style lets you move around, and keep the guy at longer range, then this might not be the case, and even so, it's how you go to the ground.

Admittedly, alot of the stuff in the movies is 'bullshit' and only holds value in the aethetics of whatching how beautiful choreagraphed MA can be on the big screen, but who is going to jump 7 feet in the air and spin kick someone in the head in real life anyway? :)

Once again, hope you enjoyed my round-about ramble! :)

-Distortion

Just had to add this in case any of you didn't believe me about Hapkido. And this from a Martial Arts forum with over 1200 votes to the poll...

Most Useless Martial Art.. (http://www.mcdojo.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=73&FORUM_ID=6&CAT_ID=8&Topic_Title=Most+Useless+Martial+Art&Forum_Title=Polls)

-Distortion

I have always been fascinated by martial arts. I was thinking about picking up Aikido, cause of its non violent nature.

The greatest benefit I see is the feeling of control over body and mind. Another benefit is a feeling of security if you get any good at it. If someone would attack me or my loved ones, I would be furious because of the lack of respect for physical integrity. I would like to know a good way of expressing that opinion.

The most fascinating martial arts form for me at the moment is Merpati Puti. They claim telekinetic punches and braking of iron bars.

I love martial arts movies, but not the ones in the style of Jean Claude Vandamme. He's good, but he relies on brute force too much. I like the subtlety and grace of fragile looking Chinese martial artists.

Bruce Lee rules.

The most fascinating martial arts form for me at the moment is Merpati Puti. They claim telekinetic punches and braking of iron bars.

I don't mean to disapoint you, but take it from someone who knows - that's fantasty. Not martial arts.

I love martial arts movies, but not the ones in the style of Jean Claude Vandamme. He's good, but he relies on brute force too much. I like the subtlety and grace of fragile looking Chinese martial artists.

Bruce Lee rules.

I agree with you completely. Try Hapkido - it's much more well-rounded and necessarily more effective in a self-defense situation. Plus, it's fantastic if you like the element 'of ease, fluidity, and absolute helplessness of the opponent'. Some of the restraining techniques are just - beautiful, someone grabs your shirt and a deft twist of the wrist as you step in a direction, a few pressure points hit for effect, and in seconds the guy is on the ground with his arm scewered against your leg, and he is completely at your mercy. Should you decide you are in a particularily bad mood, you can within a second (literally) dislocate his shoulder, break his arm in 2 seperate places, and his wrist - simultaneously. The motions are circular, fluid, gracefull IMO, and take advantage of modern and evolved understanding of human anatomy and physics.

Anyhow, yes, that's my little ad! Check it out, if you're interested in MA at all. You'll be impressed.

-Distortion

Even if Merpati Puti's claims are unrealistic, it is still the coolest name for a martial arts form ever :) (that was a joke :D )

Hapkido... I thought it was some housewives form of aikido. If I ever consider really picking up one of those sports, I will check Hapkido before joining anything.

Martial arts can be very good to learn self control from. Aikedo and Tae Kwan Do here....although Aikedo was much more beneficial for me.

As for what helps you win in a street fight - well, that takes brains and the ability to keep your cool, as well as to use every resource at your disposal. What you have to realize is that a lamp can make a kick-arse weapon and that there are no rules - you fight to survive. But when I was in a street fight situation, my Aikedo came in very handy. :)

Distortion, I would like to learn more about this Hapkido. The tecniques for restraint, especially the bit with the wrists, sounds like Aikedo.

Hapkido is illegal and untouchable filth ever since the movie Billyjack. Check it out if you must, but be warned, it's terrible.

I'm in Taekwon-Do for the moment, but my instructor advised me to add Jiu Jitsu He says : the best ever martial art what you can learn is when you mix a lot of them together, which I will soon do. Just have to find a good club.
Don't think of leaving TKD though.
What do yout think of Jiu Jitsu?

When I was 13 I got my Green Belt Tae-kwon-do from ITF (International Tae-kwon-do)

Federation

ITF = International Tae-kwon-do Federation

Distortion: It sounds like you are really trying too much at once. All the styles have their advantages and disadvantages. Just find one that you like and go with it. Don't rubbish other styles, but observe and learn from them.

I've been studying Wing Chun Kung Fu since I was 3 years old and am a 4th generation martial artist. My family have even got a style of Tai Chi named after them. I find that most sensei's or sifu's or whatever they want to be called, who rubbish other styles have another agenda in mind (i.e. that to make money or promote themselves and their style).

Anyway for what its worth, I think that learning martial arts is great. It's a great way to meet people, excersize, learn new things and develop comraderie.

And for all of you who have debated on the best style for self defense etc, I am inclined to think that what I learnt as a boxer at University has serve me the most.

WTF, weapons?! LOL, you're crazy man. I know it isn't "real dirty street fighting"

But it's the first 20 episodes of UF are the best ones, then it starts getting crappy.

Breaking bones? wtf? Gracie could've broken lots of bones if he wanted to, that is why so many give up against him. They will feel their weak joints about to snap if they do not submit.

Nuff' said. Any form of wrestling is better than all that other crap (Tae Kwan Doe, etc.).

Wrestling makes you tough and able to take hits.

Hapkido... I thought it was some housewives form of aikido. If I ever consider really picking up one of those sports, I will check Hapkido before joining anything.

Ok... here's the article on Hapkido:

Hapkido is a Korean martial art which emerged in the mid-twentieth century and quickly grew to become an international style. Its founders created the art by selectively fusing a wide range of existing martial skills, with new innovations. As a result, Hapkido possesses on of the most complex, unique, and varied arsenals of self-defense techniques to be found in any martial art. These techniques encompass all major martial categories: strikes, kicks, blocks, avoiding movements, holds, joint locks, chokes, throws, breakfalls, tumbling, ground fighting, weapons, meditation, and healing.

Like many Asian martial arts, Hapkido emphasizes the unification of body, mind, and spirit; the perfection of human character; social responsibility; and appropriate use of force. Unlike most martial arts, Hapkido utilizes more than 1100 core techniques, which are intuitively modified or combined to create thousands of variations. Self-defense techniques are characterized by a constant flow of striking, blocking, holding, and throwing techniques. Constant motion and fluid circular movements are designed to blend with an opponent's force. Tactics often alternate between highly aggressive and defensive modes, with power being generated through use of one's entire body. Internal energy development is fundamental to all training, leading to increased health and greater efficiency in self-defense techniques.

Hapkido techniques are not only for self-defense. Meditation and healing techniques are used to develop emotional stability, peace of mind, and confidence, while providing the same health benefits found in other arts, such as Tai Chi Cuan and Qi Gong. Thus, Hapkido is a highly practical self-defense art with strong spiritual underpinnings.

In contemporary society, Hapkido is mostly practiced for self-defense, health, and spiritual growth. Although it is often compared to Aikido, Tae Kwon Do, Ju Jitsu, Judo and Tai Chi Chuan, it has a much broader range of techniques, suitable in a winder range of situations. This has made it adaptable to a wide range of body physiques, personalities, and lifestyles. Hapkido is currently practiced by a diverse range of men, women, and children of all ages; working professionals; gifted athletes; the physically impaired; those simply seeking physical exercise; as well as military and law enforcement professionals.

-Marc Tedeschi (5th Dan Black Belt Hapkido)

I'll just add that it is probably the most well-rounded and street-effective art that you can learn, IMO. Plus, it has legality in mind. With some other 'eclectic' arts - you just learn how to hurt the guy - with the breadth of techniques in what I'm learning, you can hurt or restrain him, or break bones - and it's completely up to you. And finally, its ingenious because it combines pressure points with joint locks, so the guy's arm is in pain and is numb while you're putting it in a lock, or whatever. It's kind of like a double-whammy, and this isn't really found in any other art.

Hapkido is illegal and untouchable filth ever since the movie Billyjack. Check it out if you must, but be warned, it's terrible.

Adam, didn't you know that drugs were bad for you?

But when I was in a street fight situation, my Aikedo came in very handy.

I'd love to hear the whole story, Xev.

I'm in Taekwon-Do for the moment, but my instructor advised me to add Jiu Jitsu He says : the best ever martial art what you can learn is when you mix a lot of them together, which I will soon do. Just have to find a good club.
Don't think of leaving TKD though.
What do yout think of Jiu Jitsu?

IMO, Tae Kwon Do could get you killed in a real street fight. Ju Jitsu, is excellent, and will keep you alive - however - it mostly just emphasizes joint locks, holds, throws, and a very limited number of strikes.

IMO, this is just a small subset of techniques that you should know to be a well rounded fighter, and Hapkido takes all the good stuff from Ju Jitsu - there are lots of resemblances in techniques - and adds it in to the rest of it's arsenal, making it much more well rounded.

Hapkido basically is a bunch of martial arts mixed together - and that's why it is so wicked (that's how it was created) - because it kind of takes the best from all of them, melds in all together perfectly and makes it quite well rounded.

Distortion: It sounds like you are really trying too much at once. All the styles have their advantages and disadvantages. Just find one that you like and go with it. Don't rubbish other styles, but observe and learn from them.

I know my limits. I've got lots of excellent advise and mentors that have Black Belts that know what I'm doing and give me advice. As I said, I'm only really studying Hapkido, with touches of the other styles I mentioned - that I practice a few techniques from in my backyard when a friend comes over :)

Anyway for what its worth, I think that learning martial arts is great. It's a great way to meet people, excersize, learn new things and develop comraderie.

I couldn't agree more.

And for all of you who have debated on the best style for self defense etc, I am inclined to think that what I learnt as a boxer at University has serve me the most.

I don't think there is any one 'best' style for a person - because it depends on what you want and the person. Besides, you may not always want to box the guy, what if you just want to restrain him, or what if he whips out a gun? Boxing won't help you vary much. In HKD, at black belt level you learn defense for handguns.

Anyway, sorry for the huge post!

-Distortion

thanx for the advice on Hapkido , Distortion:)
unfortunately there is no school in Latvia (I checked) :(
we're a small country

as for myself I know some dirty and lethal moves, but that of course is nothing compared to a full program

I'm now activly searching of how to upgrade my abilities, although I think that Taekwon-Do will help me against untrained idiots.:p

cheers

Distortion:
Hapkido basically is a bunch of martial arts mixed together - and that's why it is so wickedI think you would find that most forms of martial arts these days are "mixed". It would be very difficult to find a "true form".

I don't think there is any one 'best' style for a person - because it depends on what you want and the person. Couldn't agree more

what if he whips out a gun? Boxing won't help you vary much. In HKD, at black belt level you learn defense for handguns. hmm for someone who seems to understand so much about the arts, this seems a very contradictory statement. Anyway as long as you are happy with your choice.

The Chosen
Nuff' said. Any form of wrestling is better than all that other crap (Tae Kwan Doe, etc.).Even the form of wrestling where all you do is flex your steriod enhance muscles and scream into the camera?:D

Wrestling makes you tough and able to take hitsNever heard of Sanchin kata have you?:)

quote:
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what if he whips out a gun? Boxing won't help you vary much. In HKD, at black belt level you learn defense for handguns.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hmm for someone who seems to understand so much about the arts, this seems a very contradictory statement. Anyway as long as you are happy with your choice.


I don't see how it's contradictory...
Is it about the handgun self defense? Well - you learn about 8 of them - basic disarmanment techniques from all kinds of angles, to my knowledge. And, in most cases - a knowledge of boxing won't help you in a fight - because, there's no weapons, avoidance, or ground techniques. You go down, you really go down, because you don't know what to do. Of course, if you're a proficient boxer you can defend yourself - but if you're profient in just about anything you could, so that's a moot point.

HKD is known as the 'Complete art of Self-Defense' - that's why things like hand guns are included.

I think you would find that most forms of martial arts these days are "mixed". It would be very difficult to find a "true form".

Well, this is obviously true - even the most generic form of Karate that you can form has evolved from other systems of Arts mixed and whatnot as it is passed down through the centuries. What I was pointing out was that HKD takes this to almost a different level than anything else you could study - it's extremely well rounded. There are techniques in it from prettymuch all of your classical arts, with new innovations, weapons fighting..ect.

--

On another note - I've only been actually practicing MA for mere months, so most of my knowledge comes from reading a couple books, magazines, and forums over the couple months that I've held the interest, so I wouldn't say I 'understand so much about the arts' - but I hope to :) And, thanks.

-Distortion

Perhaps someone can help me with this. I read a book on martial arts some while ago, and it included a reference, in the section about ninjas, about a style thingy in China that were called lin kui, or something like that. They were basically Chinese ninjas. Does someone have more information about this? I'd like to learn more.

"Nuff' said. Any form of wrestling is better than all that other crap (Tae Kwan Doe, etc.)."

Wrestling makes you tough and able to take hits"

Haha. First of all I don't know what kind of martial arts training you've had but I sure as hell learnt how to take hits!!!!! I remember my first post blackbelt tournament and I had to fight outside my age group (I was 13 at the time) and I got my ass royally whipped!!! Not only that but day in day out we had to have sparring at the end of class and after a certain level (I think it was green belt) we had no equipment and actually fought each other.
And when I did Kung-Fu my master use to fight me!!! You want to talk about a beating???

And all that crap is useless in real life? You must be kidding! Tae-kwon-do on it's own, karate on it's own or judo on it's own are not 100% useful against a good street fighter, I'll give you that. However, if someone (such as myself!) takes multiple forms of martial art (kung-fu, tae-kwon-do, ju jitsu) they will be much more of a rounded fighter than any wrestler.

And what kind of pussy ass fights do you get involved in?? All of them end up as wrestling matches? The times I've been in fights they've ended up either as full out brawls or with my opponent swiftly finding himself on the ground thanks to 8 years of training as a fighter. Believe me, if you know how to fight one shot to the head or one swift kick to the knee will end a street fight in no time.

Distortion:
Let me apologise for the assumption that you were a long time exponent of the arts. Hopefully your enthusiasm will not wane and you'll like it enough to keep going.

I won't go on any more about other fighting forms, and yes I do think that Hapkido is a good form.

Just one other thing, when you say:
HKD is known as the 'Complete art of Self-Defense' - that's why things like hand guns are included. This sounds just a little too much like Bruce Lee. Many self defense classes will teach you methods for disarming guns, knives etc. Hell I used to teach a women's self defense class at Ottawa University and at the local police academy that included these things.

Tyler:
However, if someone (such as myself!) takes multiple forms of martial art (kung-fu, tae-kwon-do, ju jitsu) they will be much more of a rounded fighter than any wrestler.
I don't agree with what The Chosen crapped on about but I wouldn't necessarily say that, yes you may know more and have the potential to defend yourself better but if a wrestler worth his salt actually got to you, you may think twice about that comment.

Gifted: The Lin Kuei or Chinese ninjas were basically the same as Japanese ninjas but they operated in China. I think they even came from Japan. Anyway, try playing some Mortal Kombat or something like that, I think they use the Lin Kuei.

Just a thought, what does everyone think of Judo, not much has been said about it.

Started with Judo back in '52 at the Great Lakes Naval Training Center.
One of my classmates, Black belt, wanted to keep in practice and offered
to teach a few of us the basics.

Point of information: don't learn Judo, especially the basics, in a boxing
ring (that canvas is rough on the bod :D )

Switched to Jujitsu for professional reasons in '58.

Might want to check out:

http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/index.php

In my opinion, one of the better Martial Arts forums on the net.

Take care ;)

Geh! there's a verry intresting article on that site thank you chagur!

I started martial arts a long time ago, since I was 14 I praticed 6 years of Kendô with my father, who was a master and my sensei (I'm lucky) then I tried to discover some other Martial Arts and sports, but neither of them (karate, thaiboxing, amongst others) could satisfy my eegerness into 'knowing' and 'feeling' and 'practicing' all together,...untill:

I came across a person who was speaking of this art as ninjutsu, I was intressted and decided to train a couple of times with the group.

I never left the Bujinkan after that time and I will practise this Art until I die,....
It has enriched my life in various ways and I am verry content about the skills that I practise, and by the way: it has saved my life a couple of times, (in the sense of reaction time and making the right choises).


Thx
fukushi

You're more than welcome.

I can understand how you feel even though
Tai Chi is more my style these days :D

Take care.

I used to be high brown blet in tae-kown-do

WTF right?

ITF has no brown belts

i dont need to practice karate for years & years, and i can already kick a black belts ass. i practice .40 cal. glock.

Any of the styles of Martil Arts are able to defend yourself in a streetfight, but they are ineffective if you don't really work for the ranks. The karate place where i go doesn't do belts unrtil black, and you can't even think about getting a black belt until you are at least 18.

My teacher studied in Italy and they have some hard ass training there, and he is pretty tough on us. We always fight at the end of class, and we have never used pads. The only time i used pads was when i went to this weak ass tournement. The people there were like little girls, and i got kicked out for being "too agressive" and all i did was a snapkick to the stomach. It was REALLY gay, they were scoring like if someone tapped you on the head they got a point.

There are many places that only want to sell belts. So if you you are looking for a place to train, be sure to really look for something that you want.


Also, i wrestle for the highschool team, and we're #1 in the state, so we parctice really hard.

To truly be able to defend yourself, you need a mix. Mostly you need concentration, abd determination!

we had a lot of fun at one karate tournament once- those karate guys are used that after a successful hit they stop and judges write down the hit LOL

well- what do you know- we don't do that in TKD.
anyways it was quite funny- they stop after a hit and we just go on. hahaha

they knew about it, but they are so much USED to stop after a good hit that they can not overcome it. LOL

anyways- I'm looking now for some place to add Ju Jitsu to my TKD, but can't find it...:(
Latvia is small:(
not many good places to learn

I think I could find a place to learn Sambo though:)

The karate place where i go doesn't do belts unrtil black, and you can't even think about getting a black belt until you are at least 18Sounds like a good school. Yes anything but a black belt means nothing, zero, zip. There is no such thing as a white, blue, green, yellow, or brown belt. These were made up by Western society to make CASH full stop. Actually traditionally a Black belt means you are ready to begin the real Martial arts training.

If you are being awarded coloured belts for Kung Fu classes, then get out quick because thats definitely a no no.

well- what do you know- we don't do that in TKD.
anyways it was quite funny- they stop after a hit and we just go on. hahaha

they knew about it, but they are so much USED to stop after a good hit that they can not overcome it.Actually thats pretty poor sportsmanship.

Chagur: Reason I mentioned Judo is that I've been to about 5 or 6 free for all tournaments where all styles entered and in most cases, Judo exponents win. Interesting eh.

bad sportsmanship?

not all did that- and besides- what would you do in a street fight- stop too?

Not surprised in the least. A bit different head-set.

"When the enemy comes, welcome him;
when he goes, send him on his way."
- Jigoro Kano -

Although sometimes referred to as 'the gentle way', if you're into
combat Judo, it is anything but 'gentle' :D

It was for that reason that I decided to get into Jujitsu with it's
emphasis on 'redirection' and throws. A lot easier to justify my
actions regarding an aggressive inmate. Always gave me a bit
of a chuckle when an inmate attempted to accuse a 5'8", 152 lb.
Officer of 'violence'.

Take care.

bad sportsmanship?

not all did that- and besides- what would you do in a street fight- stop too?There's a HUUUUUUGE difference between a street fight and a tournament.

There's indeed a world of difference between them,...
The ones who have been in couple of street fights know what you mean archwriter!

I know that there's a difference (tested lol)- but I can't allow myself to stop

And they shouldn't also
That way I' m only decreasing my skills

Of course I stopped if I saw that he just standed and did nothing, but you can not always tell that
you know well what I mean, especially if he stops in a middle of combo

anyway I want to ask- who was that idiot that thought that it is good idea in karate to stop after a successful hit?
They'd be meat on the street.

and myself also- many here say that TKD is for chickens

The stopping after a hit is a way of scoring points and preventing injury just like rules in most sports. Remember, tournament karate/TKD/judo/... whatever is a sport first, martial art second.

Being able to check your punch is also a SKILL to be learnt.

I know about controlling my hit/movement and you've got a big point there /totally right/- but it's just that- the tournament rules were that NO stopping after a hit.
I couldn't just stand still after smone had hit me, because I didn't know if he KNEW of the rules- some knew- some didn't.
It was a chaos- don't want to remember- the organisation was screwed.