Well i have heard many things about marijuana from my friends. i was wondering what you think about it. Is it right? should they legalize it? i mean we have discussed it but they arent as intelegent as i think you are. I would like to know what you think about it from an intelegent point of view.

Thanks,
Xellos

Don't panic, it's organic.

i dont think there is a case of it being right or wrong.i am strongly pro marijuana,as jb said its just a herb and the fact that a jail sentence for distributing it can be as long as for rape and many other horrific crimes seems absurd.also i think that weed is far less danger to society as a whole than alcohol.the jury is still out on whether or not smoking weed is worse for you than alcohol (i am of the opinion that if used in moderation,like alcohol it can be benificial).am in japan and so havent smoked weed for 3 months (they dont really make a distinction between drugs here so id be facing the same sentence for marijuana as for cocaine) and i miss it.it helps me think,slows down my thoughts so i can deal with them one at a time.

Well i have heard many things about marijuana from my friends. i was wondering what you think about it. Is it right? should they legalize it? i mean we have discussed it but they arent as intelegent as i think you are. I would like to know what you think about it from an intelegent point of view.

Thanks,
Xellos
marijuana is not addicting like cigarettes are
and marijuana does lead to other drugs
i'll repeat that, does lead to other drugs

i doubt it will be legalized
i also believe a person shouldn't go to jail for having 2 or 3 joints in their pocket.
that situation should be treated like a traffic ticket.
the joints being confiscated and you paying a fine

i think the only reason it leads to other drugs for some people (i know quite a lot of people who smoke weed and nothing else) is because it is illeagal and once that barrier is broken its like "why not?" with other drugs.also when you actually try it and realise that you have been fed bullshit about its effects and side effects by the government it makes you think they are lying about other drugs (they are) and makes you curious.but no it probably wont be legalized,which is a pity.

People who sit around at home and smoke pot harm no one but themselves. Do you believe that government should preserve our freedoms to do whatever we want so long as it doesn’t hurt anyone but ourselves? Do you believe that people should have the right to engage in risky behavior if they choose to?

yes

(within reason) for example if someone is mentally ill they probably shouldnt be left to their own devices.

frankly i feel a person should be able to grow their own
without fear of going to jail for it

the situation is a little different when you take it outside your house.

the situation is a little different when you take it outside your house.
Why, exactly? As long as you aren't forcing it on people, giving it to children, or endangering people by operating dangerous machinery (ie, a car) while high, why shouldn't you be allowed to take it wherever you want?

Edit: It's probably worth pointing out that I've never actually used pot and don't really have a desire to. I just hate the thought of the government saying "Sorry, we think this is too risky for you to voluntarily do." I think that governments are supposed to be about preserving people's freedom from other people (or groups of people) who want to take it away.

Why, exactly?
i feel that this nation does not need to be a nation of drug users
therefor marijuana in my opinion should remain illegal

if you take it outside your house how does law enforcement know you are not selling it?

Edit: It's probably worth pointing out that I've never actually used pot and don't really have a desire to. I just hate the thought of the government saying "Sorry, we think this is too risky for you to voluntarily do." I think that governments are supposed to be about preserving people's freedom from other people (or groups of people) who want to take it away.
nice disclaimer

i think the only reason it leads to other drugs for some people (i know quite a lot of people who smoke weed and nothing else) is because it is illeagal and once that barrier is broken its like "why not?" with other drugs.also when you actually try it and realise that you have been fed bullshit about its effects and side effects by the government it makes you think they are lying about other drugs (they are) and makes you curious.but no it probably wont be legalized,which is a pity.

Indeed, that is why there is a difference between soft and hard drugs in the Netherlands, marijuana being a soft drug. Interestingly nicotine and alcohol are often labeled as hard drugs.

The semi-legal status if cannabis in the netherlands allows people to buy their joint in a coffeeshop or grow it for themselves without coming into contact with the criminal circuit. Neither will you end up in jail for doing something so innocent like smoking joint, while drinking alcohol is perfectly legal.

Of course on school there is usually a good drugs education program. So people know the real difference between heroin, cannabis and alcohol and not the perceived moral difference of some bible belt christian rednecks.

Interestingly cannabis was legal till 1937 in the US. Some suspicious voices might say that hemp became illegal because of corporate lobbying.

i feel that this nation does not need to be a nation of drug users
therefor marijuana in my opinion should remain illegal


You are a nation of drugs users. Maybe it is time to accept the problem and deal with it like adults.

Though I have never done any drugs, and hopefully never will on my own accord, I don't think it is the government's place to stop people from doing drugs. Where is the parent's responsibility in this? It's always the kid's friends, the schools, the videogames and movies, but the parent's are never at fault...McWTF?
As such, soft drugs should be made legal, but a "drug tax", and you have to own a license to carry and use it, much like with firearms (which kill more people than drugs, anyway).

and marijuana does lead to other drugs
i'll repeat that, does lead to other drugs

Haha, bullshit. Don't try and make marijuana out to be some bad thing that makes you try other stuff. ANYTHING that alters someone's mood leads to other stuff. This goes from getting that buzz off alcohol, to popping legal pills such as painkillers or the ungodly amount of "legal" drugs our society is on, to sniffing glue, to drinking energy drinks, or heck, just spinning around real fast to get a quick head rush.

Everyone loves that feeling. And for those that like that feeling, they'll either stick with their drug of choice, be it alcohol or whatnot, or yes, they'll choose to upgrade to something more powerful. A person that smokes pot is just as likely to try harder stuff as an alcoholic. The problem is with the person, not the drug.

And yes, marijuana was banned because hemp has so many useful qualities from herbal rememdies, to making paper, to making clothes, to making rope, has highly nutritious seeds, etc, etc. It's an all-in-one plant and it's why our founding fathers used to grow it and said every patriotic American should grow that wonderful plant. Too bad most people are brainwashed fools.

- N

I am against all drugs, including cigarettes and alcohol but i am also against people being told how to live by the state. If people want to pay to die then let them. After all "we all die anyway" the words of every person addicted to something that is killing them.

never mind 'marijuana' a DEROGOTARY' name coming from refermadness propaganda. never mind 'addictive', coming from psychiatric propaganda. sugur can be habitual and a killer, coffeee, alcohol, fat, chockolate, eating, etc

think on this. A plant has been made illegal by a fascist state, which in its irratonal way pushes alcohol, on youth, which is also a drug, and does much damage from its abuse

that blowis usually te favoured herb for espcially Black and ethnic communities. so ti THEy who become te most persecuted in this war on drugs. which is really war on PEOPLE!

so i dont care wheter yo fo or aginst. it is WRONG. we dont need confirmation. it is wrong from any intelligent understanding

Haha, bullshit. Don't try and make marijuana out to be some bad thing that makes you try other stuff.
- N
i am not saying marijuana is bad neildo.
as far as drugs go it's one of the mildest out there
thats why it leads to other drugs

(which kill more people than drugs, anyway).
i have never heard of a person dieing from a overdose of marijuana

i am not saying marijuana is bad neildo.
as far as drugs go it's one of the mildest out there
thats why it leads to other drugs

You will have to explain that because I do not see the logic. Nor seems your statement backed up by actual studies. Or is it?

http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/teenpg9-10.html#lead

edit
http://www.druglibrary.org/special/king/caba/bloomquist.htm

also
"marijuana the second trip" by bloomquist

i am not saying marijuana is bad neildo.
as far as drugs go it's one of the mildest out there
thats why it leads to other drugs

Yeah, but that's a pretty silly statement to make trying to make marijuana look bad. There's all sorts of "mild drugs" that give highs yet I don't hear anyone complaining about them being drugs that lead to other drugs when they do. Talk about scapegoating. Where's everyone complaining about all the drugs most of America is on? Where's everyone complaining about cough syrup, sniffing glue, drinking, smokine regular cigarettes, energy drinks, asphyxiation, masturbation, or any other numerous activity, item, or drug? Yet here we are bashing and singling out the most helpful and versatile plant ever. Amazing.

Heck, if anything, people should be mentioning alcohol as being the drug that opens the doors to better highs as it's especially far more damaging just by itself, not even counting what it may lead to. And notice "may lead to", something you should be saying with marijuana, but that wouldn't be as an effective for anti-marijuana propoganda, would it?

- N

http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/teenpg9-10.html#lead

edit
http://www.druglibrary.org/special/king/caba/bloomquist.htm

also
"marijuana the second trip" by bloomquist

from your link
A: It could. Long-term studies of high school students and their patterns of drug use show that very few young people use other illegal drugs without first trying marijuana (7). For example, the risk of using cocaine is much greater for those who have tried marijuana than for those who have never tried it. Using marijuana puts children and teens in contact with people who are users and sellers of other drugs. So there is more of a risk that a marijuana user will be exposed to and urged to try more drugs.

So just make it legal. The marijuana doesn't lead to other drugs, it is the illegality.

Cause and effect people.

also, prohibition causes an overly biased and ignorant teaching method of drugs in school. kids are taught that all drugs are evil and will make you feel terrible. but once that kid takes the first hit of a joint and finds out that it isn't anywhere near as bad as they said it would be, he starts thinking that other drugs might be the same.

i am not saying marijuana is bad neildo.
as far as drugs go it's one of the mildest out there
thats why it leads to other drugs
'it' leads to othe drugs. what does ths mean? why do yo ppick on cannabis? what about sugar for example, right? that is a drug and it leads on t other forms of sugar saturated foods for those that it does....not everyone. same with alcohol. itmay lead to harder liquer......same with everything else. WHY then is you just loking at cannabis?.....ie., scapegoating THAT drug, which also has many different varieties.
S please explain why it is you choose tis rathe benevolent plant for your fears. do you also not include environmental influences why people may seek harder drugs. your arguments seems really reductive

i think the only reason it leads to other drugs for some people (i know quite a lot of people who smoke weed and nothing else) is because it is illeagal and once that barrier is broken its like "why not?" with other drugs.also when you actually try it and realise that you have been fed bullshit about its effects and side effects by the government it makes you think they are lying about other drugs (they are) and makes you curious.but no it probably wont be legalized,which is a pity.

Wow man, i really like that ....it reminds me of when i was a kid ...i mean when my parents told me not to do things, of course i didnt do them but the first time i ever did something wrong i found that wow ....i messed up enough i might as well keep doing whatever ........But When i did not do anything wrong my mentality never changed i never thought of doing anymore extreeme than what i was doing at that moment ......maybe if it was legal it would be just as simple as smoking cigarretts and you wouldnt think of going To the "Next Step"! p.s. thank you for your thoughts i appreciate it

Do you believe that government should preserve our freedoms to do whatever we want so long as it doesn’t hurt anyone but ourselves? Do you believe that people should have the right to engage in risky behavior if they choose to?

Well man ....As far as the should we be able to engage in risky behavior. i think that if you can go and possibilly hurt yourself by climbing a mountain or sky diving, then you should be able sit in your house, smoke some pot and relax while watching your favorite tv show.

I smoke it couple of times and I have to say it's cool. If you do it once a week nothing could happened. If you do it more you will live in two worlds, jumping from one to another will make you stupid, nervous and crazy. Weed is just for responsible people.

I smoke it couple of times and I have to say it's cool. If you do it once a week nothing could happened. If you do it more you will live in two worlds, jumping from one to another will make you stupid, nervous and crazy. Weed is just for responsible people.



well said, but a little out there on some of it


Marijuana has been researched to be a gateway drug to about 25% of the people who use it. But this is only because they meet dealers and heavier drug users. By making pot illegal, there are still people who are going to smoke it. These people could be "nice" people but, met the wrong people. If we where to make it legal the 25% would drop most likely, because alot of dealers would lose bussiness. So people who began smoking would most likely, never meet these people. If they never meet them they never try the drugs these people sell, correct? Now on the other hand there will be people who want to try these drugs, but these people would have wanted to try them whether marijuana was legal or not.

But in terms pot is bad illegal or legal. But the odds of people getting into stronger drugs would drop. Dealers would lose money, go out of bussiness, and you wouldn't have such a bad problem.

If your a person who dislikes smoking, what if they took your right away to privacy? Would you go along with it because people think privacy should be illegal, no you wouldn't. So why try to make smoking illegal? It is there right to smoke, and you shouldn't have the right to take peoples rights away.

The Constitution is the supreme law of this country. The Constitution specifies which powers the government has, and explicitly states that all other powers are forbidden to it.

The government does not have the legal power to tell consenting adults what they can put inside their bodies. It simply is not in the Constitution.

The original Prohibitionists understood that. They knew that their cause could only prevail if they succeeded in passing a Constitutional amendment authorizing the government to prevent people from drinking alcohol. That law lasted about fifteen years, and the people got so fed up with it that the government had to repeal it.

Nowadays the government violates the Constitution every day, and nobody cares. At some point the Supreme Court will declare that since the Constitution has not been enforced for fifty years or a hundred years, that some legal principle declares it no longer in force.

People get the kind of government they deserve.

i think you said it best neildo
it isn't the drug, it's the type of person you are

personaly i have no problem with marijuana use, but that's me

Well i have heard many things about marijuana from my friends. i was wondering what you think about it. Is it right? should they legalize it? i mean we have discussed it but they arent as intelegent as i think you are. I would like to know what you think about it from an intelegent point of view.

Thanks,
Xellos

Joints are supposed to be less addicting then cigs. But they are way worse for you.

Joints are supposed to be less addicting then cigs. But they are way worse for you.
they are definately less addicting (they are only as addicting as playing a video game). but being worse, that depends on how you look at it. theres a lot of resin and tar in joints that goes straight to your lungs, but there aren't nearly as many carcinogens or unneccessary additives; marijuana is straight off the plant, you know what you are smoking.

yeah, true. One joint has as much tar as 20 cigs.

S please explain why it is you choose tis rathe benevolent plant for your fears. do you also not include environmental influences why people may seek harder drugs. your arguments seems really reductive
i am not picking on marijuana duendy
alcohol and nicotine are a hell of a lot worse than
marijuana ever thought about being.

as far as leading to other drugs, it does, read my links.
it also depends on what kind of person you are

In the netherlands you don't go to a drugsdealer for a joint. So your reasoning is invalid.

According to your reasoning the illegality of cannabis is immoral. The government is stimulating criminal behaviour by making cannabis illegal. Cannabis a drug which is a soft drug.

Yeah, that's true! I was in Amsterdam a few months ago...wow, you can get anything there. They have hash brownies in there cafes! Well that's where mostly all the stuff is.

i am not saying marijuana is bad neildo.
as far as drugs go it's one of the mildest out there
thats why it leads to other drugs

You will have to explain that because I do not see the logic. Nor seems your statement backed up by actual studies. Or is it?

I think that logic comes from phrases like "When you're on top, the only place you have to go is down" or "When you've hit rock bottom, all you have to go is up", lol.

So, uh, yeah, if marijuana is the mildest drug then DUH, it'll lead to harder drugs since there's not much milder. However, that doesn't mean it'll MAKE you do harder drugs as the drugaphobes make you wanna think with their propoganda. If a person takes harder drugs, it's the person's fault, not the drug.

It's no different than introduction mathematics being a gateway to someone liking theoretical physics. It's no different than a dirt bike leading to F1 Racing. No different than getting your ears pierced leading to a life of masochism. It's pretty silly. But where people fail miserably saying marijuana is a gateway drug is that it's not the only way to get a high. One can get a high through many LEGAL means such as alcohol, spinning around super fast, drinking a lot of nyquil, sniffing glue, etc. Why aren't those legal means called gateway drugs? Oh wait, because they're legal and I guess people's reasoning is that they're less harmful. Lol, yeah right!

The problem with hemp is that it's the most verstatile plant in the world which makes it a threat to other businesses. It's the reason why there will NEVER be a cure for cancer, even if one may already exist. Why? Because it puts other jobs out of business. Why would drug companies want a disease cured when they make so much money by having people take drugs that "help prevent" or "battle" that disease as opposed to flat out curing it? It's the same why oil barons don't want new fuel technology because they lose out. And since all of America is run and controlled by oil baron politicians, it won't happen. It's why many biochemists that make breakthroughs wind up dead. It's why marijuana is illegal and can land you in jail. We're simply a threat to big business.

- N

they are definately less addicting (they are only as addicting as playing a video game). but being worse, that depends on how you look at it. theres a lot of resin and tar in joints that goes straight to your lungs, but there aren't nearly as many carcinogens or unneccessary additives; marijuana is straight off the plant, you know what you are smoking.


Well, if you grow your own plant that is true.

In Mexico they use illgeal pestisides, and chemicals to make it stronger.

Certain types of marijuana also have cocaine in them. It is added by dealers to make it appear to have crystals on it. Now however some plants do have crystals, most of them don't. Like Hydro, most of the time the crystals you see on it are cocaine, and we all know how bad cocaine is

Well, if you grow your own plant that is true.

In Mexico they use illgeal pestisides, and chemicals to make it stronger.

Certain types of marijuana also have cocaine in them. It is added by dealers to make it appear to have crystals on it. Now however some plants do have crystals, most of them don't. Like Hydro, most of the time the crystals you see on it are cocaine, and we all know how bad cocaine is

if you know where it is coming from (or if you trust the source) then you know what you're getting. and most of the time you can tell if anything is added. cocaine is added usually as a mix, they don't really throw it in there arbitrarily because cocaine is so much more expensive by weight. most of the time the crystals you see are not cocaine, as the marijuana plant does a very good job of producing dewlike resin that appears crystalline. this is filled with a lot of the chemicals in marijuana that get you high, thats why the more cystals it has is usually associated to how good the strain of marijuana it is.

and besides, everyone knows that the best weed comes from BC or Amsterdam. Or California for that matter. :m:

In the netherlands you don't go to a drugsdealer for a joint. So your reasoning is invalid.

i really can't argue the point because i don't have any statistics from the netherlands.
but it is safe to say even though hemp is legal there
there are people being arrested for doing harder drugs. and the majority started with marijuana.

And yes, marijuana was banned because hemp has so many useful qualities from herbal rememdies, to making paper, to making clothes, to making rope, has highly nutritious seeds, etc, etc. It's an all-in-one plant and it's why our founding fathers used to grow it and said every patriotic American should grow that wonderful plant. Too bad most people are brainwashed fools.

- N

I'm not entirely sure I'm reading this right. Are you saying that marijuana was banned BECAUSE it has so many uses? That since it has so many different positive uses for mankind, then it must be banned?

Please let me know if I'm reading this right, because it seems just a tad far-fetched to me. I say this because, if that was the case, then why are we able to cut down trees? Take water from the ocean?

Why stop at marijuana?

because the oil companies didnt want their market share diminishing

because the oil companies didnt want their market share diminishing


I believe there is truth to this accusation. Though I doubt it is/was just oil companies.

Why else would they (DEA) have fought a bill that would have allowed Colorado farmers to grow industrial hemp? There are cultivars that have virtually NO drug value, but the DEA told them plainly that they would fight them with whatever they had, should the bill pass.

It didn't pass.

Look at the federal drug enforcement goons versus the state of California over medical marijuana. Look at the cases of terminally ill, very ill, persons, being imprisoned for growing or purchasing what their own state's laws say is legal.

Just a year or two ago, a giant shipment of hemp seeds was stopped by agents from coming across the Canadian border. The reason? Foods made from hemp seeds give false positives on those blessed drug tests!

drug tests unfairly discriminate against marijuana
you can smoke a joint today and test positive 3 weeks later
the only drug that i am aware of that does that.

cocaine, lsd, alcohol all of those are out of your system in 3 days or less

there are people being arrested for doing harder drugs. and the majority started with marijuana.


What's this CRAP about "harder" drugs?

Are you aware of the statistics? Cigarettes and alcohol kill WAY WAY WAY MORE people every year than cocaine, crack, heroin, meth, and all those others combined!

This "hard" drug/"soft" drug shite is a ruse! Do you know how many people die from TYLENOL every year???

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=11017

And that's only acetaminophen!

The actual story behind the legislature passed against marijuana is quite surprising. According to Jack Herer, author of The Emperor Wears No Clothes and an expert on the "hemp conspiracy," the acts bringing about the demise of hemp were part of a large conspiracy involving DuPont, Harry J. Anslinger, commissioner of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, and many other influential industrial leaders such as William Randolph Hearst and Andrew Mellon. Herer notes that the Marijuana Tax Act, which passed in 1937, coincidentally occurred just as the decoricator machine was invented. With this invention, hemp would have been able to take over competing industries almost instantaneously. According to Popular Mechanics, "10,000 acres devoted to hemp will produce as much paper as 40,000 acres of average [forest] pulp land." William Hearst owned enormous timber acreage, land best suited for conventional pulp, so his interest in preventing the growth of hemp can be easily explained. Competition from hemp would have easily driven the Hearst paper-manufacturing company out of business and significantly lowered the value of his land. Herer even suggests popularizing the term "marijuana" was a strategy Hearst used in order to create fear in the American public. "The first step in creating hysteria was to introduce the element of fear of the unknown by using a word that no one had ever heard of before... 'marijuana'" (ibid).

DuPont's involvment in the anti-hemp campaign can also be explained with great ease. At this time, DuPont was patenting a new sulfuric acid process for producing wood-pulp paper. "According to the company's own records, wood-pulp products ultimately accounted for more than 80% of all DuPont's railroad car loadings for the next 50 years" (ibid). Indeed it should be noted that "two years before the prohibitive hemp tax in 1937, DuPont developed a new synthetic fiber, nylon, which was an ideal substitute for hemp rope" (Hartsell). The year after the tax was passed DuPont came out with rayon, which would have been unable to compete with the strength of hemp fiber or its economical process of manufacturing. "DuPont's point man was none other than Harry Anslinger...who was appointed to the FBN by Treasury Secretary Andrew MEllon, who was also chairman of the Mellon Bank, DuPont's chief financial backer. Anslinger's relationship to Mellon wasn't just political, he was also married to Mellon's niece" (Hartsell). It doesn't take much to draw a connection between DuPont, Anslinger, and Mellon, and it's obvious that all of these groups, including Hearst, had strong motivation to prevent the growth of the hemp industry.

The reasoning behind DuPont, Anslinger, and Hearst was not for any moral or health related issues. They fought to prevent the growth of this new industry so they wouldn't go bankrupt. In fact, the American Medical Association tried to argue for the medical benefits of hemp. Marijuana is actually less dangerous than alcohol, cigarettes, and even most over-the-counter medicines or prescriptions. According to Francis J. Young, the DEA's administrative judge, "nearly all medicines have toxicm, potentially letal affects, but marijuana is not such a substance...Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within a supervised routine of medical care" (DEA Docket No. 86-22, 57). It is illogical then, for marijuana to be illegal in the United States when "alcohol poisoning is a significant cause of death in this country" and "approximately 400,000 premature deaths are attributed to cigarettes annually." Dr. Roger Pertwee, SEcretary of the International Cannabis Research Society states that as a recreational drug, "Marijuana compares favourably to nicotine, alcohol, and even caffeine." Under extreme amounts of alcohol a person will experience an "inability to stand or walk without help, stupor and near unconsciousness, lack of comprehension of what is seen or heard, shock, and breathing and heartbeat may stop." Even though these effects occur only under insane amounts of alcohol consumption, (.2-.5 BAL) the fact is smoking extreme amounts of marijuana will do nothing more than put you to sleep, whereas drinking excessive amounts of alcohol will kill you.

Cut and pasted without the kind permission of Erowid

What's this CRAP about "harder" drugs?

Are you aware of the statistics? Cigarettes and alcohol kill WAY WAY WAY MORE people every year than cocaine, crack, heroin, meth, and all those others combined!
if you read my posts you wouldn't be biteing my head off

drug tests unfairly discriminate against marijuana
you can smoke a joint today and test positive 3 weeks later
the only drug that i am aware of that does that.

cocaine, lsd, alcohol all of those are out of your system in 3 days or less


Because they measure a fat-soluble metabolite (THC-carboxylic acid), and NOT the normal THC or its major water-soluble byproduct.

You're very correct. It IS unfair, and I believe it is the one chemical that is responsible for the majority of positive identifications in urine analysises (or whatever the test may be). I could be wrong.

the fact is smoking extreme amounts of marijuana will do nothing more than put you to sleep, whereas drinking excessive amounts of alcohol will kill you.
i will agree with your post, not just this qoute but with all of it

but the drug statistics of the netherlands is still missing
those statistics will, in my opinion, prove that marijuana leads to other drugs

The unfortunate truth, is that drug dealers haunt the streets of Amsterdam wherever there are marijuana cafes.

if you read my posts you wouldn't be biteing my head off

Like a monkey?

HEEY BEEEEECCCCHHHH!!!!!!!

Sorry if it looked like that! I actually wasn't attacking you, just a certain idea you seemed to be talkin. Just tryin to make things clear, baby! No harm intended!

Carry on, peacefully of course... ;)

i will agree with your post, not just this qoute but with all of it

but the drug statistics of the netherlands is still missing
those statistics will, in my opinion, prove that marijuana leads to other drugs

To be honest, all of the people I know who have done the "harder" drugs were all cigarette smokers at an early age, and/or are heavy smokers in THIS age.

I believe that perhaps it is ANY high that can lead to the search for OTHER highs.

Sound kosher?

But that's just MY observation. Though I'm sure there is data that will tend to show that trend.

Sorry if it looked like that!
eh, no problem

The unfortunate truth, is that drug dealers haunt the streets of Amsterdam wherever there are marijuana cafes.
no, the unfortunate truth is people are abusers and marijuana is a relatively mild drug
both of those together accounts for marijuana leading to other drugs

i will agree with your post, not just this qoute but with all of it

but the drug statistics of the netherlands is still missing
those statistics will, in my opinion, prove that marijuana leads to other drugs


"The number of opiate addicts in the Netherlands - between 26,000 and 30,000 - is stable, and low compared to other EU countries (2.6 per 1,000 inhabitants in the Netherlands; 4.3 per 1,000 inhabitants in France; and 6.7 per 1,000 inhabitants in the United Kingdom)."

Shouldn't that be higher if cannabis leads to hard drugs?


Regarding drug use among young people aged 12-18, in 2002 the Trimbos Institute reported that "The use of illegal drugs is still low among this age group. Cannabis scores highest, but the use of hard drugs and synthetic drugs is almost non-existent in this age group and deaths and overdoses are rare. Cannabis use increased steeply from 1988 to 1996, but lifetime and last month prevalence stabilised afterwards (until 1999) at 19% and 15%. Boys are more frequent users than girls. The first experimental drugs for young people are predominantly tobacco and alcohol. This pattern remained stable over the last five years or even tended to decrease. Young alcohol users also use cannabis and tobacco more frequently."

Note the last sentence: young alcohol users. and what has been said earlier in this thread: people start with tabacco and alcohol.

The ratio of drug-related deaths in The Netherlands is the lowest in Europe. h, q

Violent crime rates in The Netherlands are much lower than in the US,q as is the rate of transmission of HIV/AIDS through injection drug use. q

Drug policy in the Netherlands is based on minimizing risk and reducing harm. That is why the use of cannabis (marijuana and hashish) is tolerated, as is the private personal cultivation of cannabis, and the sale of cannabis through coffee shops. b

What do you want in your society? Cracking down on drugs and putting people in jail or making society as civilized as possible? It is a question you have to ask?

"Differences in the prevalence of drug use are influenced by a variety of factors in each country. As countries with more liberal drug policies (such as the Netherlands) and those with a more restricted approach (such as Sweden) have not very different prevalence rates, the impact of national drug policies (more liberal versus more restrictive approaches) on the prevalence of drug use and especially problem drug use remains unclear. However, comprehensive national drug policies are of high importance in reducing adverse consequences of problem drug use such as HIV infections, hepatitis B and C and overdose deaths."

If there is not much difference regarding the nature of drug policy isn't it then better to concentrate on the wellbeing of the citizens. Apparently a tougher policy doesn't lead to less drug use. But it can lead to more health and social problems.


http://www.drugwarfacts.org/internat.htm#netherlands

The first experimental drugs for young people are predominantly tobacco and alcohol. This pattern remained stable over the last five years or even tended to decrease. Young alcohol users also use cannabis and tobacco more frequently."[/I]


Well, perhaps my hunch had some meat on its bones. :o :m: :p

Drug policy in the Netherlands is based on minimizing risk and reducing harm. That is why the use of cannabis (marijuana and hashish) is tolerated, as is the private personal cultivation of cannabis, and the sale of cannabis through coffee shops. b

What do you want in your society? Cracking down on drugs and putting people in jail or making society as civilized as possible? It is a question you have to ask?


Amen. Amon-Ra.

I believe I have read the exact opposite in Drug Enforcement Administration propaganda.

I SWEAR I remember reading some outrageous unemployment rate for the Netherlands, in one of those anti-drug rants. Anyone heard something similar?

In November 2005, the US unemployment rate was 5.0% and the Japanese rate was 4.6%.

Euro-zone unemployment unchanged at 8.3%

Netherlands unemployment in november 2005: 4.7%

http://epp.eurostat.cec.eu.int/pls/portal/url/page/PGP_MISCELLANEOUS/PGE_DOC_DETAIL?p_product_code=KS-NK-06-001

manypeople forget that it --draw--isn't really free in Holland. it is just 'de-criminalized'

we shouod agin and again and agin and agiin and agin ask ourselves.....just do it now. go to a quite space. rind a bell.listen for tone to enfold in the void, and ask yourself: 'what kind of fukin trip is this where the management/middle class wnakers tell us we cany grow a plant, eat a plant, smoke a plant. where plants are outlawed. were thees cop shows which havethese straight faced cops cahsing and interrogating and slammin pople up cause threy have plant leaves on em. ask yourself ...IS this a comedy, or what?

yes HOW many people just take this scenario in their stride?? if THIS dont show ya major propaganda technique for zombifying otherwise intelligences, i dunno know what will

you is living in a comedy set ladiees and genelmen

Some more stats (although very crude ones on stastics comparison Netherlands vs USA.

http://www.taima.org/drugfacts/nl_usa.htm

"The number of opiate addicts in the Netherlands - between 26,000 and 30,000 - is stable, and low compared to other EU countries (2.6 per 1,000 inhabitants in the Netherlands; 4.3 per 1,000 inhabitants in France; and 6.7 per 1,000 inhabitants in the United Kingdom)."

Shouldn't that be higher if cannabis leads to hard drugs?

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/internat.htm#netherlands
your link has no info on the number of opiate users that started with marijuana
it also has no info from the u.s.

it does however seem to contradict marijuana leading to other drugs

it must also be understood that this is one study and not exhaustive.


the question i have is
why is there no info on the u.s. statistics for comparison?

Because the studies are done in the EU and the USA is not a member of the EU.

I did also post this

Some more stats (although very crude ones on stastics comparison Netherlands vs USA.

http://www.taima.org/drugfacts/nl_usa.htm

http://www.taima.org/drugfacts/nl_usa.htm
i must be pointed out that these stats come from a pro drug website
and they could be biased. notice the word could

it doesn't give much info on marijuana use

Anyway:

Everyone has access to cannabis in the netherlands.

Netherlands doesn't have the worst drug figures.

concusion:
free access to cannabis doesn't lead to extreme hard drug use.

Not quite the same as what you want to hear, but the EU studies do support the notion that alcohol and tabacco are the drugs of choice for first experimentation. And a soft drugs policy doesn't lead to extra use of hard or soft drugs. It does lead to a better health situation of drugs users.

What more do you want?

Rethoric vs facts - what are we going to believe?

What more do you want?


an independent study that compares the two side by side

in your first link the us stats were missing
in your second link marijuana use is missing

edit
i can find sites that are anti marijuana that will make you believe marijuana is dangerous.
but the fact of the matter is hemp is a mild drug, you can not become addicted to it

Who cares about the US.

my banjo is bigger than your banjo

cocaine is added usually as a mix, they don't really throw it in there arbitrarily because cocaine is so much more expensive by weight. most of the time the crystals you see are not cocaine, as the marijuana plant does a very good job of producing dewlike resin that appears crystalline. this is filled with a lot of the chemicals in marijuana that get you high, thats why the more cystals it has is usually associated to how good the strain of marijuana it is.



Do some research on marijuana seized at the border of mexico, the figures are somewhere between 70-90% of all marijuana siezed has some level of cocaine in it, now some plants do have crystals as i said in my original post, but Hydro does not grow crystals, you get those from the curing process. -most of the time dealers will put cocaine with bat guano. Trust me on this one.

From Mexico cocaine is very cheap because there isn't to much of a problem getting it in the country. -trust me on this one as well.

but the fact of the matter is hemp is a mild drug, you can not become addicted to it


Marijuana is mentally addicting if you want to count that :D

I smoked on average, 1/3 ounce of bud per week for 32 years. During all that time, I managed to set up and run a successful business; I made good investments; I stayed loyal to my wife; I helped out mine and her families; I self taught myself to set up a home recording studio and recorded countless tracks of beautiful original music and I wrote two novels... amongst other things.

Last year I stopped. Not because I wanted to; it was the last thing I wanted. But I stopped out of respect for my wife's wishes because she was paranoid that I would be caught and end up in prison. You can't argue with my wife!

Anyway, I stopped, end of story. No withdrawals, no deppressions, nothing negative, so, was I mentally addicted? Yes. Could I stop it? Yes. Did it make me feel bad? No. Would I do it again if my wife allowed it? Yes. What's the big deal?

belgium has almost the same policy on marijuana as the netherlands. i happen to live in belgium.
the softer policy leads to lower prices for higher quality marijuana. it also leads to children being educated on the effects of said drug.

that being said, there is little to no abuse of marijuana in either country, as it is seen in the same light as alchohol: ok for responsible users, not ok for idiots.

case closed.

Anyway, I stopped, end of story. No withdrawals, no deppressions, nothing negative, so, was I mentally addicted? Yes. Could I stop it? Yes. Did it make me feel bad? No. Would I do it again if my wife allowed it? Yes. What's the big deal?
like i said, can't get addicted to it. can't argue with experience can you.

i always liked those commercials, this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs

I don't think there is anything wrong with pot. Alcohol is legal, and it kills more people worldwide in one year than pot ever has probably in it's whole existence. Pot users are usually docile people, who just enjoy the feeling of floating away from their worries for a bit. They differ from people who get high to escape their problems or because they need to. Absinthe and Opium don't bother me either for the same reasons. Crack, cocaine, LSD, PCP, Ecstasy, heroin, alcohol, painkillers and other abused prescription drugs have a much higher chance of making people violent and/or stupid.

People should be able to get high, as long as they don't endanger anyone elses life by getting into a car and driving, or operating heavy machinery. They should not be in charge of children, or the elderly while they are high, and I feel the same way about people who have been drinking.

There are people who get addicted to pot. It's probably a pretty high percentage, most probably similar to the numbers of people who are addicted to alcohol. Alcohol is legal and has very little medically sound properties with the exception of red wine, but pot has been proven to help with nausea, migraines, arthritis, phantom pains (paraplegics, quadriplegics and amputees), as well as alleviating some heart angina and irregular heartbeats. I don't see why we criminalize it at all, especially for people who could get some relief from it's effects. I'd love to see a study on whether or not it helps adults with ADD or ADHD cope and focus, and whether or not it calms some forms of schizophrenia. My guess is that it would given it's medicinal properties.

I have an NA book with astory about a girl who started smoking pot at the age of 22

Well, she got heavily into it, and put every single dollar she could into it, after a while she was living in her car

She couldn't quit marijuana

She had to go to NA meetings and rehabs to quit smoking marijuana

However, that is an addict, 1/10 people are drug addicts

So i gues it varies from person to person, but for those 1/10 it is highly addicting

"The number of opiate addicts in the Netherlands - between 26,000 and 30,000 - is stable, and low compared to other EU countries (2.6 per 1,000 inhabitants in the Netherlands; 4.3 per 1,000 inhabitants in France; and 6.7 per 1,000 inhabitants in the United Kingdom)."

Shouldn't that be higher if cannabis leads to hard drugs?



http://www.drugwarfacts.org/internat.htm#netherlands


But, you have to take into consideration, how many people in the netherlands have the money for heroin?

So i gues it varies from person to person, but for those 1/10 it is highly addicting
you can not get addicted to pot like you can tobacco or alcohol.
to say pot is highly addictive is misleading

crack is highly addictive

you can not get addicted to pot like you can tobacco or alcohol.
to say pot is highly addictive is misleading

crack is highly addictive


Not really, i'm talking about drug addicts. Note: drug addicts get addicted to drugs in general; not just heroin and crack.

Marijuna is highly addicting to some people, not everyone. The number of people who get addicted to marijuana is greatly smaller then the number of people who don't, but you still have to take minor details into consideration.

But, you have to take into consideration, how many people in the netherlands have the money for heroin?

1. since when did lack of money stop an addict?
2. the US is a third world country compared to holland.

1. since when did lack of money stop an addict?
2. the US is a third world country compared to holland.


1.Well, prisons in Amsterdam sound very scary, just short of horrible.

2. Ever been to amsterdam, and saw the houses they lived in?

Yes, I have been in amsterdam.

Ever been in the USA and seen the houses they live in?

Yea, everyday. But, that is the bad sides of town.


The ghetto there is in no way in comparison to ghettos of America.

Ghettos in holland.

fuck me...that was funny.

------------

well, my old neighbourhood in holland has completely turned into what they label in holland as a ghetto. That is were there are more immigrants than dutch people.

My sister lives in a street like that and sends her kids to a school with no white people whatsoever.

What does such a ghetto look like:
http://sciforums.*******************/dutch-ghetto.jpg
fucking disgrace to the world isn't it.

i always liked those commercials, this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs

Same here. There's also been some recent anti-marijuana commercials on TV the past couple years and they've been so stupid, lol; made me laugh out loud, literally.

Heh, I feel like watching the movie Reefer Madness now. That's the same hilarious hysteria.


Not really, i'm talking about drug addicts. Note: drug addicts get addicted to drugs in general; not just heroin and crack.

Exactly, it's the person. That said girl would also have been an addict to gambling instead if she had tried.

- N

Ghettos in holland.

fuck me...that was funny.

------------

well, my old neighbourhood in holland has completely turned into what they label in holland as a ghetto. That is were there are more immigrants than dutch people.

My sister lives in a street like that and sends her kids to a school with no white people whatsoever.

What does such a ghetto look like:
http://sciforums.*******************/dutch-ghetto.jpg
fucking disgrace to the world isn't it.

What about housing in the red light district?

Exactly, it's the person. That said girl would also have been an addict to gambling instead if she had tried.

- N


Yes.

But, none the less it is addicting to some people and to say it's not addicting is very wrong. Now, I do admit it is the person, but marijuana is mentally addicting, but not a strong mental addiction.

Besides, marijuana also has tabacco in it quite alot i might add, it's not as addicting as ciggarettes with there additives, but still addicting; for people who arn't addicts it is very easy to quit with mild withdrawls. The worst you could get is depression, or a tough time sleeping.

Now compare that to alcohol which can kill you if you try to quit it; but you have to have been drinking for a very long amount of time.

I support marijuana fully, i am a habbitual smoker of it, and would be wrong of me to preach it is bad. :m: But, still you must be correct if you are to argue this properly.

To spurious, I know amsterdam might have nice houses and a fairly decent economy system. But from what i've always heard in the red light district the ghettos are horrible.

Besides, marijuana also has tabacco in it


Not sure where you get your marijuana, but you might want to ask for a refund if there's tobacco in it... or were you pointing out that most Dutch tend to mix in tobacco when they smoke marijuana?


To spurious, I know amsterdam might have nice houses and a fairly decent economy system. But from what i've always heard in the red light district the ghettos are horrible.

The Red Light District is right in the center of Amsterdam. And, while there are quite a few neer-do-wells running around there, it's hardly a ghetto. Most of the housing there is quite nice and, I suspect, quite expensive. I stayed right in the middle of the Red Light district when I visited, and felt quite safe the whole time. It's the tourist capital of Holland, and so is packed with expensive restaurants and bars, and quite a few nice hotels. Apart from a few run-down "coffee" shops, I never saw anything in Amsterdam that remotely approached what I'd call a "ghetto." Moreover, the Netherlands has a per-capita GDP on par with England, Japan and Australia, so it's a bit of an understatement to say they have a "fairly decent" economy. They've been one of the richest countries on the face of the earth since the Renaissance.

Not sure where you get your marijuana, but you might want to ask for a refund if there's tobacco in it... or were you pointing out that most Dutch tend to mix in tobacco when they smoke marijuana?



The Red Light District is right in the center of Amsterdam. And, while there are quite a few neer-do-wells running around there, it's hardly a ghetto. Most of the housing there is quite nice and, I suspect, quite expensive. I stayed right in the middle of the Red Light district when I visited, and felt quite safe the whole time. It's the tourist capital of Holland, and so is packed with expensive restaurants and bars, and quite a few nice hotels. Apart from a few run-down "coffee" shops, I never saw anything in Amsterdam that remotely approached what I'd call a "ghetto." Moreover, the Netherlands has a per-capita GDP on par with England, Japan and Australia, so it's a bit of an understatement to say they have a "fairly decent" economy. They've been one of the richest countries on the face of the earth since the Renaissance.

Well, I learned in my rehab starlite that there is strong amounts of tobacco in it. However they have been wrong before, and could be wrong about this.

According to Starlight
in shwag 4-12% of it is thc or tetrahydrocannabinol very strong portions being tobacco. ( I tried doing research on this and could not find any supporting texts on the tobacco)
In nug it is 25-45% thc or tetrahydrocannabinol. Not as much tobacco but still a strong amount.( I tried doing research on this and could not find any supporting texts on the tobacco)

As to the second part I stand corrected. I have only heard of it having bad ghettos. Excuse me for that, I do appologize.

But hey lets not forget the ghettos during world war 2, lol jk those don't really count anymore.

According to Starlight
in shwag 4-12% of it is thc or tetrahydrocannabinol very strong portions being tobacco. ( I tried doing research on this and could not find any supporting texts on the tobacco)
In nug it is 25-45% thc or tetrahydrocannabinol. Not as much tobacco but still a strong amount.( I tried doing research on this and could not find any supporting texts on the tobacco)

That seems really suspicious to me. I've bought quite a bit of both marijuana and tobacco in my life, and I've never seen any tobacco mixed in with weed. And it's certainly very easy to tell the difference... Perhaps it's a regional thing? Not sure where you're located, but I can state with confidence that any marijuana dealer who tried to pass off tobacco as weed anywhere in North America or Europe would very quickly find himself out of business (and maybe with some bruises).

No not mixed in with the plant

It's supposed to be naturally in the plant, like tobacco strains are in marijuana strains

Also I live in Texas.

What's this CRAP about "harder" drugs?

Are you aware of the statistics? Cigarettes and alcohol kill WAY WAY WAY MORE people every year than cocaine, crack, heroin, meth, and all those others combined!

This "hard" drug/"soft" drug shite is a ruse! Do you know how many people die from TYLENOL every year???

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=11017

And that's only acetaminophen!

That's just because more people use cigarettes. Herion and Crack are worse for you and they can kill you. Cigarettes aren't that bad, neither is drinking.

Also I live in Texas.

I bet you can get loads of stuff there.

the US is a third world country compared to holland.

I wouldn't say that... Sure there are probably more ghettos in America, but there are the Ghettos in Amsterdam. I remember getting lost and driving into this really ghetto area. It looked pretty bad. Most of the people in Amsterdam all have the same type of house. But there are those nice richy houses there as well, but it's the same in America.
I was in D.C. and OMG THEY have ghettos! The ghettos I saw in Holland were kind of more like a group...Just a small group of houses living away from everyone else.

I HAVE SMOKED pounds and pounds of marijuana...

but not so much any longer...

IT MAKES YOU LAZY... TIRED... AND WANTING TO SLEEP...

all of which gets in the way of living...


also.. its a depressant... and people dont need help getting depressed.

alcohol does as much.

also.. they say 13% of men... are suceptable to growing breasts...

and.. cannibiniods in weed, act like... like.. estrogen in the body...

and can cause some men to actually form breasts if they smoke alot... alot..

i cant say i dont like it.. i do... but it doesnt actually help anyone unless they are seriously stressed out.... in pain.. or suffering some form of nausia....

thus.. here in CA... it has been legalized with a medical perscription...

as it seems reasonable.. sick and dieing people should be able too if it helps..
which it can..

i used to be in constant pain... and it helped me forget.

but im not in pain anymore... and now.. it just makes me lazy.

-MT

I bet you can get loads of stuff there.


Oh, god yea...

Anything, at the cheapest prices i've heard of.

DID I MENTION... in CA... there are stores... you can go to.. and buy the very best from around the world....

-MT

Oh, god yea...

Anything, at the cheapest prices i've heard of.


And your right there next to Mexico! It's easy. My mom always says that the cowboys are stoners. I bet a lot of them are. Cheap? How cheap?
It costs like 20 euro here for an ounce of coke. Not that I do it or anything.

DID I MENTION... in CA... there are stores... you can go to.. and buy the very best from around the world....

-MT
Are you serious? I thought it was illegal in America. Wow.

It costs like 20 euro here for an ounce of coke. Not that I do it or anything.

Excuse me? 20 EU a GRAM for coke would be dirt cheap, but 20 an OUNCE is unheard of, except probably in Bolivia. Damn', in Europe even grass is 400-900 EU an ounce.

some poster here claims cannbis is a 'depressant'...? NO, it is not. it is a 'stimulant'. a depressant is a sbstance that if you keep taking it it will eventually comatose you and lead to death. this is alcohol territory not cannbis. tho of course one can abuse cannabis

another ting.this STUPID FUKIN STATE/

many of you are naive about this. for a start the State has twofaces. a face that seems all worried and presents itself as wanting to wage war of illegal drugs, but the other hidden face MAINTINS this war , not for cares about people, yoth etc. NO. it is their need for the VASt amounts of money collated via the keeping these drugs illegal!! see and read Dan Russell's DRUG WAR. it'll blow ya minds. he names names to

allllso. in our media is tis bullcrap about cannabis use leading to 'menta; illness', and that this situation's been excacerabted by the general use now of the super strainsof cannabis , like skink etc

ok, listen up. i started tokin befo many of yous were out of infants. then you could have moreor less a menu of diverse forms of cannabis, eg., Afghani, Nepalise,
Lebanon, Thai Stick, Congolize,Califonian....etc etc etc. then there was this frantic persecution of users. this coninued, adn along with tis street drugs became more and mo in the hands of criminals (before it'd been more hippies, peae and love type of ting)pppdrugs got mixed, especially Black. it was called 'formula' in tis country, UK. .......soon skunk came. and pople felt they could rely on it for its guaranteed THC. so see what i mean. the same fukin powers blaming skunk's abuse by yout are the same ignoreant sily mithering fukers--as USUAL--who DROVE people To it. who had screwed with the free diverse forms previous

the STATE is an ARSE. it ceates all the evils it then pretends to care about and gets votes to sort out

drop it!

Excuse me? 20 EU a GRAM for coke would be dirt cheap, but 20 an OUNCE is unheard of, except probably in Bolivia. Damn', in Europe even grass is 400-900 EU an ounce.

Sorry, my bad, a quarter of an ounce. Big difference there.

some poster here claims cannbis is a 'depressant'...? NO, it is not. it is a 'stimulant'. a depressant is a sbstance that if you keep taking it it will eventually comatose you and lead to death. this is alcohol territory not cannbis. tho of course one can abuse cannabis



Hey Duendy dude! While nervous system depressants can eventually lead to coma and death, stimulants overload the system in the opposite direction, but can have the same effects in the end, leading to death. People have died from drinking too much of those super-caffeinated drinks, where one cup is equal to four cups of strong coffee. It causes severe nausea, tremors, and sometimes heart attack.

Marijuana does not generally do that, and the lethal dosage of THC is very very difficult to reach under normal circumstances, which is why overdoses on marijuana are pretty much unheard of. It can cause an elevated heart rate (which COULD lead to other more serious conditions), but it's not necessarily a stimulant in the classic sense. I believe it DOES have stimulant effects, but those are secondary.
I believe it would be more aptly called simply a euphoriant, which is more akin to a mild hallucinogen. And yes, very strong doses of marijuana can cause full-blown hallucinations, though in general it is merely a mind alterant.

The human brain has certain receptors (CB1) that only a very very narrow class of chemicals bind to, and included in this elite class are THC and certain other cannabinoids. Most of the CB1 receptors are concentrated in the hippocampus, which probably explains its effects on memory. (obviously)

The discovery of cannabinoid-specific receptors proved that the cannabinoids in marijuana are a distinct class with their own psychoactive effects. They were once simply called a narcotic.

That's all I know. Goodbye.

Anyone else have something to add here? It's an interesting area, because I have seen marijuana classed with several different types of drugs.

liberal translation of dutch drugs education site

Can you get addicted to cannabis?

There is no physical addiction. A user doesn't have to be taking more and more to get the same effect. It stays the same. Neither does the body protest when it is deprived from cannabis.

Mental addiction occurs with a subset of cannabis users, especially with the ones that use it on a daily basis. This is especially so when the drug is used to escape reality, because of boredom or lack of a future. In those cases it is possible that the situation arises that only hasj or weed are important and everything else becomes uninteresting.

price: 2 to 7 euro per gram. Availability - good (coffeeshops)

For Leopold
link (http://trimbos.nl/Downloads/Programmaas/NDM/Factsheetdrugsbeleid2005DEF%20Engels.pdf)

The Netherlands 2001 (15 – 64 year) vs United States 2003 (12 and over)


Canabis ever use: 21% NL vs 41% US
Cannabis recent use: 6% NL vs 11% US
Cocain ever use: 3.6% NL vs 14.7% US
Cocain recent use: 1.1% NL vs 2.5% US
Ecstasy ever use: 3.6% NL vs 4.6% US
Ecstasy recent use: 1.5% NL vs 0.9% US

Despite cannibis being semi-legal in the netherlands there appear to be less users (although there needs to be some caution with comparing the figures).

Ecstasy continues to be (second to cannabis) the main illegal drug for young people in the clubbing
circuit, in particular parties, although there are indications of a tendency to moderate the use.
• Among visitors of Amsterdam trendy clubs, the percentage of current users of ecstasy decreased
from 41 percent in 1998 to 19 percent in 2003.
• In The Hague the percentage of ecstasy users among young clubbers was at the same level as in
Amsterdam.
• Elsewhere in the country, key figures in the partying circuit also noted that young clubbers handled ecstasy ‘more prudently’ and were better informed of the risks. Visitors of discotheques in rural
areas in the eastern part of the country do not seem to be an exception.

It seems that good information actually does bring drug use down.

If you ever wondered why the Dutch rule the world:
Dutch-grown marihuana contains more THC on average than foreign-grown marihuana types (see
Figure 4).

Opiates and cocaine According to the latest estimates, the number of problem users of hard drugs amounts to approx. 32,000. This number is accompanied by a fairly large margin of uncertainty, varying from approx. 22,000 to 42,000 problem users. Compared with earlier years, no change has taken place. Per thousand of inhabitants, this is low compared to other countries of the European Union (see Table 2).

Tolerance of cannabis doesn't there seem to have any detrimental effect of the amount of hard drug users.

The toxicity of cannabis is minimal. In the past twenty years, the Statistics Netherlands (CBS) has not recorded one single death directly related to the consumption of cannabis. The number of deaths caused as a result of amphetamine or ecstasy use is not known. There are probably a few cases per year.

In 20 years no one died of cannabis in the netherlands.

yes.. in CA... THERE ARE STORES...

you can go there and buy the very best.. if you have a prescription.

there are several here in LA... one is called the 'Farmacy'


ALSO..

cannibus is a depressant... thats why it makes you tired and lazy....
it is definately not a stimulant... i know... ive done them all.

also..

it is not addictive... just habit forming.. but i have noticed that the socalled addiction lasts for no more than 3 days...

i.e.. if i smoke it today... i will want more tommorow.. seriously.

but after 3 days.. i dont care anymore.. doesnt matter...

it reduces stress and relaxes you... so you can get used to it.. and think you need it.

but if you stop using it.. you'll notice that your less depressed and lazy, and that... for me.. is a good thing...

I NEED HELP GETTING UP... NOT FOR LAYING DOWN.

-MT

No not mixed in with the plant

It's supposed to be naturally in the plant, like tobacco strains are in marijuana strains

Nah, that can't be true. They're entirely different species.

Well, quadraphnics. It's complicated but not exactly how i said it. Most of shwag has tobacco properties in it.

Excuse me? 20 EU a GRAM for coke would be dirt cheap, but 20 an OUNCE is unheard of, except probably in Bolivia. Damn', in Europe even grass is 400-900 EU an ounce.


Good god, thats a very high price for weed.

Shwag one ounce in texas is 35-50 US

Nug of any kind is 10-25 a gram 175 US for an ounce from most people.

the question has been raised "does marijuana lead to other drugs"

Ongoing studies of teenagers and their drug use patterns show that very few use other drugs without first trying marijuana.
http://www.swedish.org/17589.cfm

and this:
So, does early marijuana use cause later illicit drug use? If the researchers effectively removed genetics and environment from the equation in this twin study, then the answer is yes.
http://general-medicine.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/2003/218/1

edit
in my search i have avoided biased sites such as norml and anti drug sites

the question has been raised "does marijuana lead to other drugs"

Ongoing studies of teenagers and their drug use patterns show that very few use other drugs without first trying marijuana.
http://www.swedish.org/17589.cfm

and this:
So, does early marijuana use cause later illicit drug use? If the researchers effectively removed genetics and environment from the equation in this twin study, then the answer is yes.
http://general-medicine.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/2003/218/1

edit
in my search i have avoided biased sites such as norml and anti drug sites

Thats really interesting research.

Is there any more supporting text?

How 'bout this: make it legal to have it but illegal to obtain in. Nice little loophole there. You can have it and use, but gettin' it is a bit of a toughie. :p

Is there any more supporting text?


There are no studies in existance where ZERO hard drug users report starting out with the hard drugs, they all report first trying light drugs.
http://teenadvice.about.com/cs/teenlifefaqs/a/drugalcoholFAQ_4.htm

this from a pro drug site
Does marijuana use trigger subtle biochemical changes that encourage drug-taking behavior? Or does cannabis give kids an entree into social circles where stronger drugs are used? The study doesn't have all the answers, but it does offer kids another reason to heed their elders.
http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread15292.shtml

edit
in the interest of fairness
http://www.reason.com/links/links012403.shtml

yo, all those who believe cannabis is a 'depresant'. see that computer, google it. ask it 'is cannabis A depressant?'....let me know

yo, all those who believe cannabis is a 'depresant'. see that computer, google it. ask it 'is cannabis A depressant?'....let me know
how about this.


What is more, in rats this cell growth appears to be linked with reducing anxiety and depression. The results suggest that marijuana, or its derivatives, could actually be good for the brain.
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/drugs-alcohol/dn8155

how about this.


What is more, in rats this cell growth appears to be linked with reducing anxiety and depression. The results suggest that marijuana, or its derivatives, could actually be good for the brain.
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/drugs-alcohol/dn8155
what i hate about 'studies' such as this. is that animals are being tested on, WITHOUT thjeir consent. they haven't CHOSE to go chew a cannabis leaf voluntarily. they are usedas biochemical machins by the whitecoats. it is disgusting!

but regarding cannabis and larning. well i have always favoured it over -fro example-alcohol-for its stimulating creative inspiration. for unlike alcohol, in its later stages, cannabis heightens sensual awareness...

There are no studies in existance where ZERO hard drug users report starting out with the hard drugs, they all report first trying light drugs.
http://teenadvice.about.com/cs/teenlifefaqs/a/drugalcoholFAQ_4.htm

this from a pro drug site
Does marijuana use trigger subtle biochemical changes that encourage drug-taking behavior? Or does cannabis give kids an entree into social circles where stronger drugs are used? The study doesn't have all the answers, but it does offer kids another reason to heed their elders.
http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread15292.shtml

edit
in the interest of fairness
http://www.reason.com/links/links012403.shtml


I've heard of a few people starting off with hard drugs and never using pot, but using pot to get off of hard drugs.

fun-ness

Im not quite sure of something, you know when you get cancer, do doctors prescibe the use of cannabis as an anti depresant, or as a painkiller?This may sound stupid, but iv never been sure. :m:

Im not quite sure of something, you know when you get cancer, do doctors prescibe the use of cannabis as an anti depresant, or as a painkiller?This may sound stupid, but iv never been sure. :m:


Well, the prescribe it to people with glaucoma - i beleive thats how it's spelled

Because it helps out with it.

They give it to people with aids who have somthing called hungary man syndrome or somthing because they can't hold down food but marijuna allows them to eat food.

Also, its givin to a cancer patient as somthing of an anti depressent/pain killer.

It's given to cancer patients to counter the effects of chemotherapy, which is nausea and generally feeling terrible.

Another question guys, :m: joints do contain high amounts of tar, and so therefore DO cause lung cancer, and heart disease. Why, therefore do some people believe it to be the lesser of the two evils (smoking ciggies or smoking joints)?

Another question guys, :m: joints do contain high amounts of tar, and so therefore DO cause lung cancer, and heart disease. Why, therefore do some people believe it to be the lesser of the two evils (smoking ciggies or smoking joints)?
because you can get physically addicted to nicotine
ask anyone who smokes cigarettes how hard it is to stop

marijuana has no such addiction, you can not become addicted to it

Anything you smoke is bound to be bad for you, but marijuana doesn't contain nicotine, which is a poison and marijuana doesn't have to be smoked, it can be eaten or drunk as an infusion, you can't do that with tobacco. Also, some studies suggest it might have anti-carcinogenic properties.

marijuana has no such addiction, you can not become addicted to it

Ah, but it is here that i think you are wrong, i have a friend, whos parents smoke marijuana heavily.The guy cant get up in the morning unless he has a joint in bed, he has at least two between meals, and if he goes without, he becomes rapidly moody, depressed and cannot concentrate on anything. This to me shows some form of addiction.

Ah, but it is here that i think you are wrong,
no john, you are wrong
i have smoked pot, i know what i am talking about

yes there are withdrawal symptoms
but nothing even remotely resembleing nicotine withdrawal

i will say it again you can not become addicted to marijuana

Ok then, how do you explain my friends fathers behaviour when he hasnt had his full marijuana intake.

I dont believe that these are merely 'withdrawal symptoms'.They are too aggresive, and also he just cannot physically function during the day unless he has acquired his daily 'fix'.

Just because you didnt experince a form of addiction, does not mean that the same situation could lead to a different outcome for a different person. This guy IS addicted to smoking pot, whatever you say cannot, and will not change this simple fact.

marijuana has no such addiction, you can not become addicted to it
Well, you can actually. Trust me on that.
It's psychological but can be very difficult to get out of if you smoke it frequently for an extended period of time. It has a habit of making itself a lifestyle, and sucking the joy out of anything but itself. The lifestyle is addictive.
And extremely negative.

This, I'm sure, is why it's illegal.
Smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol are socially condusive activities. They mesh well with society, alcoholics can function perfectly in society, stoners can not.
It makes you forget about doing anything with your life and you just sit around getting high, and you're too spaced out to see the problem with that.
It generally just effects you mentally on a more extreme level than alcohol, and for longer. You just eventually pass out and wake up with a hangover drinking alcohol. The next day you're thinking straight and you're in the position to responsibly direct your life. But once you smoke pot for a few days your permanently half stoned and you just keep smoking it and smoking and procrastinating and forgetting and soon you're only smoking pot and watching tv, and this could go on indefinately because you won't have any moments of real clarity (despite the illusions of supreme clarity with universal significance- it's all just bullshit though in reality) and doing nothing but smoking pot makes perfect sense in your twisted brain.

These arguments "you're not hurting anyone when you're high" are misleading, getting into drunken fights is such a trivial thing in comparison to completely wasting your life which is what you do when you're a stoner.

Some people can just smoke it on occassion and function perfectly ok, but most don't.
The fact it's not technically physically addictive is misleading too because people just get stuck in haphazardly and before they know it they're not thinking properly and just destroying their life without realising.

I don't care if it's legal or illegal, but it should be clearer to everyone what it is.
Maybe the risks would be made clearer if it was legal, as it stands all anyone ever hears about it is how it's harmless and non addictive and should be legal etc etc and I think people are going in ignorant and once they're in they can't even notice the problems because they're wacked out stoners.

Look at the whole hippy thing, a whole sect of society were stoners and they started thinking about all shit which didn't matter and doing nothing but talking crap and getting high. And now they're old ugly dirtbags living in busted up shit hole houses out of town with dirty vans and nothing to show for their lives and hardly any memories.
That kind of sums up what weed does to people (I know they took acid and sh!t as well but the weed is what allowed them to think it was perfectly ok living such a ridiculous lifestyle taking acid all the time).

I think everyone should experience weed and acid, I really do believe they help one learn to think in more complicated ways.
There's clearly a point when it stops being beneficial though and the unfortunate thing is the person taking the drugs rarely will notice that point come and pass.

i am not saying there are no withdrawal symptoms

i AM saying you can not become physically addicted to marijuana

both nicotine and alcohol are physically addicting
it is almost impossible to quit either of them

the "addiction" of marijuana is mental
you just think you need it

edit
Physical addiction is when a person's body actually becomes dependent on a particular substance

Psychological (or mental) addiction happens when the cravings for a drug are psychological or emotional. People who are psychologically addicted feel overcome by the desire to have a drug.
http://kidshealth.org/teen/drug_alcohol/getting_help/addictions.html

Most drug addicts you ask will say mental addiction is far worse then physical.

Well, you can actually. Trust me on that.


me)))wouldn't trust ya as far as i could throw ya

It's psychological but can be very difficult to get out of if you smoke it frequently for an extended period of time. It has a habit of making itself a lifestyle, and sucking the joy out of anything but itself. The lifestyle is addictive.
And extremely negative.

me))one couod say same for a business corporate alacohol coke fueled lifestyle much mo better, dont ya think?

This, I'm sure, is why it's illegal.
Smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol are socially condusive activities. They mesh well with society, alcoholics can function perfectly in society, stoners can not.

me)))oh my Gooood, you cant be serious? are you serious, are ya ...arrre ya. oh.
look. for a kick off, smokining ciggies is becomin more and more socially Uacceptable. just read yeter that a califrnian place is banning ciggies-e smoking outside.
also where we are in UK, alcohol bingeing has gotten So out of control, hundreds of young pople, getting younger and younger are getting life threatening diseases, and also drink fuled violence is on the streeets. so what te helll are you talking abot ?

It makes you forget about doing anything with your life and you just sit around getting high, and you're too spaced out to see the problem with that.
It generally just effects you mentally on a more extreme level than alcohol, and for longer. You just eventually pass out and wake up with a hangover drinking alcohol. The next day you're thinking straight and you're in the position to responsibly direct your life. But once you smoke pot for a few days your permanently half stoned and you just keep smoking it and smoking and procrastinating and forgetting and soon you're only smoking pot and watching tv, and this could go on indefinately because you won't have any moments of real clarity (despite the illusions of supreme clarity with universal significance- it's all just bullshit though in reality) and doing nothing but smoking pot makes perfect sense in your twisted brain.

me)))well how come your 'sober' brain seems twisted...? dont think i haveever reead anything with an iota of insight from you here dr lou natic. i find your views abhorrent.
hae yo not thought tat maybe it is YOUR experience of grass you are meaning. cxan yuu not see that others' experience wth it my be diferent and more liberating. as usual the dodgy person blames the drug and not teir own nature.......take rightly the herb is condusive for heightened sensuality. ever enjoyed ses when pissed...?? you are like a rubber man, causealcohol is a depressant. it NUMBS your senses. thats why they used to use it for surgery. cutting legs off etc!

These arguments "you're not hurting anyone when you're high" are misleading, getting into drunken fights is such a trivial thing in comparison to completely wasting your life which is what you do when you're a stoner.

me))))))))i cann believe what i am hearing, truly. you are trying to say alchol is not a pime causeof bloody and murdeous violence. your argument is not wortheffort of challenge it is so lacking in insight
you shood come check out manchester lad, on a friday saturday etc nights. will soooon chanfe your mind i promise

Some people can just smoke it on occassion and function perfectly ok, but most don't.
The fact it's not technically physically addictive is misleading too because people just get stuck in haphazardly and before they know it they're not thinking properly and just destroying their life without realising.

me))))))))any activity can become obsessive.....drinkin, eatin, shoppin, gamblin, workin, sending silly unifformed posts to forums, etc etc. its nt the activity it is the person. itis also the system hat prson is in. and the lifestyle. our world has lost its soul so manypeople latch onto diverse ways of escape. many people choose to chane teir consciousness. you are attacking cannabis but bet you dont see dangers of sugar--which is a drug and insidiously harmful, coffeee, etc etc

I don't care if it's legal or illegal, but it should be clearer to everyone what it is.

me))well ifukin carew. how dare you and ytour cronies dictate to us what we can grow. what we can ingest and smoke. that make laws against Nature. you wankers. you fuuukin hypocrites

Maybe the risks would be made clearer if it was legal, as it stands all anyone ever hears about it is how it's harmless and non addictive and should be legal etc etc and I think people are going in ignorant and once they're in they can't even notice the problems because they're wacked out stoners.

me))))a person can get as much info as they wanna. how many know about dangers of alcohol. not many, cause thats why mo and mo youth are getting diseased.
and some times people dont wan to know. how many people buy ciggies when on fronts of packets now is 'these will kill you'. when pople wnat pleasure they will go fo it. the alternative is your mean sober little world. which is more visious than any fukin drug. tos secretly they use drug money to pay fo their wars!!!!

Look at the whole hippy thing, a whole sect of society were stoners and they started thinking about all shit which didn't matter and doing nothing but talking crap and getting high. And now they're old ugly dirtbags living in busted up shit hole houses out of town with dirty vans and nothing to show for their lives and hardly any memories.
That kind of sums up what weed does to people (I know they took acid and sh!t as well but the weed is what allowed them to think it was perfectly ok living such a ridiculous lifestyle taking acid all the time).

me)))yo men in comparison with your superior lifestyle, were you send dickhead absurd rants from your precious computer borin u all dead with its bullshite?oh right? hippies of te world? aren't you jealous of this dude here?.........

I think everyone should experience weed and acid, I really do believe they help one learn to think in more complicated ways.

me)))hmmmmm, contradictions now. annnnd, it has to be siad. unfortunately they didn't help you. ohhh well

There's clearly a point when it stops being beneficial though and the unfortunate thing is the person taking the drugs rarely will notice that point come and pass.

no. you are confusing abuse wit intelliget respectful use. i for example see you as quite rigid. you seem set in your ways and have avery negativeoutlook on life, and have racist views etc....if anyone needed to refreesh your muse with inpiring facilitators its you boyo

Well, there are some things you should know about marijuana.

1. It destroys long term thinking.
2. It destroys hand eye cordination
3. It is a despressent. - undeniably.
4. It can lead to other drugs, depending on the person
5. It causes several cancers. But what doesn't. If you don't believe this i think you should wonder why Bob Marley died from a smoking cancer. When he was a huge activist for making tobacco illegal.
6. It does cause alot of problems with crimes. Most drug dealers start off selling pot. Look at the crimes the commit.
7. It supports criminal activities at this moment.
8. It does damage to your DNA, which in terms effects your children.
9. Think about how good most kids life are when they smoke pot.
I can't really think of and pros for it. Other then it is relaxing, and good for a social life. :m:

Well, there are some things you should know about marijuana.

1. It destroys long term thinking.
2. It destroys hand eye cordination
3. It is a despressent. - undeniably.
4. It can lead to other drugs, depending on the person
5. It causes several cancers. But what doesn't. If you don't believe this i think you should wonder why Bob Marley died from a smoking cancer. When he was a huge activist for making tobacco illegal.
6. It does cause alot of problems with crimes. Most drug dealers start off selling pot. Look at the crimes the commit.
7. It supports criminal activities at this moment.
8. It does damage to your DNA, which in terms effects your children.
9. Think about how good most kids life are when they smoke pot.
I can't really think of and pros for it. Other then it is relaxing, and good for a social life. :m:

all of which (besides perhaps cancer if you've smoked for long enough or criminal consequences if you are in jail) go away after you stop smoking pot.

Your DNA is permenitly altered as wel as your cordnation system. Although your cordination system will get better it will never be at its full poteintal. Now the others do go away when you have quit smoking. But, they still cause damage, for the time you are on it. Enough to alter your life for better or worse depeding on the person.

Your DNA is permenitly altered as wel as your cordnation system. Although your cordination system will get better it will never be at its full poteintal. Now the others do go away when you have quit smoking. But, they still cause damage, for the time you are on it. Enough to alter your life for better or worse depeding on the person.
dna is altered? where do you get this from? the only thing thc does to genes is alter the current production of germ cells, which would only affect you offspring if you had any while you still had thc in your bloodstream. as long as thc isn't in the bloodstream, it isn't affecting the production of sperm. coordination is only affected while you're high. studies have shown that mental disabilities caused by marijuana usage (whether chronic or short term) disappear after the person stops smoking for about a month. the only damage left over is whatever small amount of stuff in the lungs including any possible carcinogens left behind. the consequences of smoking depend on the person.

dna is altered? where do you get this from? the only thing thc does to genes is alter the current production of germ cells, which would only affect you offspring if you had any while you still had thc in your bloodstream. as long as thc isn't in the bloodstream, it isn't affecting the production of sperm. coordination is only affected while you're high. studies have shown that mental disabilities caused by marijuana usage (whether chronic or short term) disappear after the person stops smoking for about a month. the only damage left over is whatever small amount of stuff in the lungs including any possible carcinogens left behind. the consequences of smoking depend on the person.


Read into European studies on this matter. I'm almost positive you will find something on the fact it will alter your DNA. Alot of things will alter your DNA Marijuana messes with the cannabanoids in your brain, which causes chemical changes in your system, in short affecting your DNA.

listen. lets be real. A:L drugs can be abused. and some can show side effects for some more than others. remember, eating bad food always has bad side effects

alcohol, the accepted drug. it can cause lots of diseases if abused, including the insidious damage to liver (yo dont find out till its too late!)

but THE most important point in my opnion, is: that te State has absolutly no right to prohibit qhat we choose to ingest. espcially someting s relatively harmless a cannabis

in fact, iti the very war on drugs that has caused strogr strains of cannis, like skink to become te favoued strain. thiis cause of the blck market and covery government moves.
also remember that many dealers in cannabis now also sell other drugs too. i remember for example in l70s 80s where some cannbis sellers wouldn't touch some of the othe harder drugs to sell. yet as drug war has caused gangsterism, this has changed. so kids goin for draw may have crack pushed into their faces, etc.

so it is no point ie., makin lists of negative effects of marijuana. tis has been tried big time by State beginnin wit reefer madness popaganda, and has it stopped people takin what tey want? no. and it also creates a forbidden fruit glamour too

but you see. secretly the State WANTS this. they use drug money to fuel their wasee Dan Russel's Drug War

cannabis is one of the only actual NATURAl drugs. and people have used it for centuries. think about it. what State LOVE to do is control. they dont want people having access to a natrually growing plant. they rather want you hooked on thie r drugs which are man-made and make PROFITS!
i know i know. this sounds like contradiction, for i am saying they want pple buying illegal drugs--covertly. but you see, as Russel explains. KEEPING them controlled keeps their price up. profit

Read into European studies on this matter. I'm almost positive you will find something on the fact it will alter your DNA. Alot of things will alter your DNA Marijuana messes with the cannabanoids in your brain, which causes chemical changes in your system, in short affecting your DNA.
no, the only thing that alters the dna in your body is cancer.

no, the only thing that alters the dna in your body is cancer.


Please, that is nonsense. Alot of studies show Mobile phones or even bad air cn alter your DNA.

I know this is reiterating many things said previously, but it's needed. I find no good reason why marijuana is still illegal in the U.S. It's less harmful than legal substances like alcohol and cigarettes. So where does the government have the right to keep it illegal? Another ploy by the U.S. government, driven by greed and not by logic. Marijuana is not at all physically addictive. Mental addiction can occur with any substance. Video games, food, sex, ect. The drug itself is not addictive. As far as marijuana leading to other "harder" drugs, that's BS. It's all a matter of the individual. If they enjoy the euphoria of any drug than it's a matter of what type of highs they enjoy and the strength of each. There are numerous pot smokers who have never cared to use stronger drugs, it's a matter of the individual, not the marijuana. I myself smoke, and do not at all feel compelled to shoot up some heroin because it will get me "high". The government profits by keeping marijuana illegal, and that's the bottom line. :m:

no, the only thing that alters the dna in your body is cancer.
are you saying lsd and cosmic rays do not?

As far as marijuana leading to other "harder" drugs, that's BS.
i gave abou 4 or 5 links that say you are wrong

i gave abou 4 or 5 links that say you are wrong
you gave me links to sites with people that agree with your point of view..nothing of substance. The fact that the majority of major heavy drug users have used marijuana at some point just goes with what I said that if someone is inclined to get high, and enjoys the euphoria...than it's only logical to assume they started at the easiest attained, milder drug...marijuana. There is no proof that marijuana in any way compells someone to try stronger mind altering substances.

you gave me links to sites with people that agree with your point of view..
those sites were unbiased sources
one of them being a pro drug site

like i said in the post of the sources
i avoided sites such as norml and anti drug sites
both types of sites are biased

There is no proof that marijuana in any way compells someone to try stronger mind altering substances.
sources?

and if your argument is 'ban marijuana cause it leads to harder drugs'? ytou should watch the well good and well funny film 'Grass'. narrated by Woddy Harrilson it shows exactly the absurdity ofStat propaganda about cannbis. they have tried all kinds of ridiculous ploys since the 30s to demonize weed. the first films showed these hillarious films of white folks puffin on reefer and then murdering each other....'marijuana KILLS' then they trid other tactics when people sussed that was crap. tis has gone on and hey we're in 2006. for fuk sake wake up you gullibles

oh yeah. one of the ploys was 'marijuana leads to harder drugs'...well like, rrrr what happend to marijuana makes you kill??

what happened to that leopold

but listen. EVEN if it does. that is no reason whatsoever for you and your cronies to tell people who use it they cant use it. to tell people they cannpot grow plants. you are facists when you do this. trying ti impose your idsras and practices onto others who do not want it. ANDit will NEVER work. so give itup already

and if your argument is 'ban marijuana cause it leads to harder drugs'? ytou should watch the well good and well funny film 'Grass'. narrated by Woddy Harrilson it shows exactly the absurdity ofStat propaganda about cannbis. they have tried all kinds of ridiculous ploys since the 30s to demonize weed.

which is exactly why i avoided anti drug sites

...well like, rrrr what happend to marijuana makes you kill??

what happened to that leopold

but listen. EVEN if it does. that is no reason whatsoever for you and your cronies to tell people who use it they cant use it. to tell people they cannpot grow plants. you are facists when you do this. trying ti impose your idsras and practices onto others who do not want it. ANDit will NEVER work. so give itup already
i never said marijuana makes you kill

and i am not saying people shouldn't use it

i have no problems with marijuana
but i do feel people that want to know the truth will be reading this thread
that is why i selected unbiased sources for my links

i never said marijuana makes you kill

But it does! Go watch the movie Reefer Madness. :D

- N

Please, that is nonsense. Alot of studies show Mobile phones or even bad air cn alter your DNA.

are you saying lsd and cosmic rays do not?
show me

show me

Mutations are changes in an organism's DNA that potentially affect the correct functioning of genes. They occur naturally due to replication errors, mispairing of homologous chromosomes, or through unavoidable exposure to natural radiation (e.g., cosmic rays)
http://www.canine-genetics.com/Mutation.htm


In the last decade, a serious new dimension has been added to the LSD controversy. A number of scientific papers have been published indicating that LSD might cause structural changes in the chromosomes, genetic mutations, disturbances of embryonic development, and malignant degeneration of cells.
http://www.psychedelic-library.org/grofchro.htm

show me


Sure, this is no problem.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/14/health/main617400.shtml
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/22/mobile_phones_dna/
http://news.bbc