I cruised by The O'Reilly Factor the other night and Bill was outraged, OUTRAGED to hear that Jesse Ventura had vetoed a bill that would have made the Pledge of Allegiance mandatory in Minnesota schools. O'Reily's "argument" was that people who didn't agree with saying certain phrases (Mainly the 'under God bit') didn't have to say The Pledge, but they would have to stand to show "respect for the Flag and what the pledge represents.

I asked my friend who teaches English at my old high school what he thought of it, and he said it was the biggest "mandatory waste of time" that he knew of. The majority of the kids in high school could give a rats ass -- they're all too busy thinking about who they're going to be banging at the keg party on Friday night. And, U.S. citizens aside, what if you are a foreign exchange student or the children of diplomats? I doubt their parents would think really highly of their kids "swearing allegiance" to another countries flag.

Mandated statements of allegiance are empty blatherings precisely because they are compulsory. They are statements of submission, nothing more. As such, they are the darlings of those who seek robotic obedience to Authority. Making someone pledge allegiance to a flag has about as much meaning as making someone hear a generic school prayer. It is only meaningful if it means something to the person involved. I applaud Governor Ventura for his veto. I am not anti-flag. I am a proud U.S. citizen. But how would forcing school children to pledge allegiance be meaningful in any way?

Compulsory patriotism isn't.

Peace.

I watch O'Reilly in a regular basis too. I don't agree with everything he says but I like his show.

I live in Minnesota now. I personally support the bill for couple reasons. Pledge of Allegiance is part of heritage and it will never be compulsive no matter what. Kids won't be punished because they don't want to do it. If I recall correctly, this bill tells schools to do pledge of allegiance, not students. Schools host the event, but kids won't be punished for not doing it.

To me public educations itself is a waste of time. Kids don't care about learning anything period. We all have to do something that is meaningless and total waste of time. I have to hear national anthem every time I go to a sports event. To me that is waste of time but it is tradition.

One can demand the little tykes recite the pledge of allegiance hourly; but as a means of molding patriots, it's an exercise in futility. As I mentioned in another post, my notion of patriotism has nothing to do with flags and borders.

In any case, a pledge of allegiance to the flag appears to be more a show of nationalism than patriotism. Nationalism carried through to its extremes bred roughly 60 million deaths in the last century. If there is anything we don't need at the moment, it's more mindless nationalism.

BTW, I spent 12 years in Catholic schools, and I must have spent hundreds of hours at Mass reciting various prayers. I decided to become an atheist by the 10th grade, and remain one today. The rote recitations didn't work in my case.

Michael

Simply pledging is futile. The pomp and circumstance is missing!

Have the tikes lineup behind a flag-bearer and march a few times around
the classroom while the anthem is played over the PA system. Oh, and
don't forget the uniforms ... preferably tan and brown for that extra
special significance.

Take care ;)

you forgot the red arm bands

we do nothing like that in Australia

why don't you spend the time LEARNING about your country and "what it is to be American" (in there minds as well, after all when your gone it will belong to them) rather than reciting trash?

Forcing kids to pledge allegiance to a flag representing a nation whose constitution upholds freedom of speech and the rights of the individual?

There's a quandary there.....

My opinion is that America is losing its roots, the very ideals which made it a great nation to begin with.

Onya Jesse (whoever he is).

A country is no better than its people WANT it to be

if my generation is ashamed by the one before it we wont live like them and there is not really much they can do about it

I for one am glad that Gov. Ventura vetoed the bill. Patriotism and allegiance are things that have to come from the heart, not just be repeated with no clue to their meaning. If the Minnesota legislature wants kids to be patriotic, they should think about starting some type of heritage or U.S history program. Saying the words without understanding what they mean is useless. Blind patriotism is worse then terrorism. At least the terrorist understands what he is doing and understands his beliefs, the blind patriot does not, he just simply follows whoever is in charge.

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) –
For the first time ever, a federal appeals court declared the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional Wednesday because of the words "under God" added by Congress in 1954.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said the phrase amounts to a government endorsement of religion in violation of the Constitution's Establishment Clause, which requires a separation of church and state. (Full text here (http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/06/26/pledgeofallegiance.ap/index.html)) While kids should learn about the Pledge of Allegiance in schools, including the fact that it was originally written by a socialist minister who didn't seem to think it was necessary to mention God, nobody should be forced to recite it.

Peace.

A federal appeals court just ruled the pledge unconstitutional. This is a good thing. "one nation, under God" - This is obviously saying that the nation endorses religion, specifically monotheism. Nobody can argue that. So how does that jive with freedom of religion? It doesn't. Not to mention that it is worthless to make kids repeat the worthless lines like drones everyday. I remember hating it when I was a kid. I like what squid said:
Forcing kids to pledge allegiance to a flag representing a nation whose constitution upholds freedom of speech and the rights of the individual?
It doesn't make sense. Just because we've been doing it for 50 years doesn't make it right or good.

I don't agree that the Plegde should be enforced. If you have a legit religious disagreement with it, and your parent comes in and wants you excused fine.

BUT, if you have no objection you should be made to say it. Its only a matter of respect for your nation, and the million plus people that have died for it.

My teachers always instilled that it was disrespectful not to say the Pledge. Personally I never had a problem.

why?

whats the point if it means nothing to you?