Looters whom the Amirecans unleashed



As the U.S. forces claimed full control over Baghdad, something truly terrible has taken place in the city's most important museum.
They lie across the floor in tens of thousands of pieces, the priceless antiquities of Iraq's history. The looters had gone from shelf to shelf, systematically pulling down the statues and pots and amphorae of the Assyrians and the Babylonians, the Sumerians, the Medes, the Persians and the Greeks and hurling them on to the concrete,
"Our feet crunched on the wreckage of 5,000-year-old marble plinths and stone statuary and pots that had endured every siege of Baghdad, every invasion of Iraq throughout history only to be destroyed when America came to "liberate" the city".
And what would you expect from a country that only existed 400 years ago!!
'Liberation' Turned Into Occupation

In the late afternoon, at least eight former and very portly senior police officers, all wearing green uniforms _the same color as the uniforms of the Iraqi Baath party _turned up to offer their services to the Americans, accompanied by a U.S. Marine. But there was no sign that any of them would be sent down to the Museum of Antiquity.

So 'liberation' has already turned into occupation,
"Faced by a crowd of angry Iraqis in Firdos Square demanding a new Iraqi government 'for our protection and security and peace', U.S. Marines, who should have been providing that protection, stood shoulder to shoulder facing them, guns at the ready."
So,they finaly showed their true faces as pirates and thieves

There is no electricity in Baghdad _as there is no water and no law and no order AND NO FREEDOM _and so "we stumbled in the darkness of the museum basement, tripping over toppled statues and stumbling into broken winged bulls. When I shone my torch over one far shelf, I drew in my breath. Every pot and jar "3,500 BC" it said on one shelf corner _ had been bashed to pieces."
"Why? How could they do this? Why, when the city was already burning, when anarchy had been let loose _and less than three months after U.S. archaeologists and Pentagon officials met to discuss the country's treasures and put the Baghdad Archaeological Museum on a military data-base,"
"Did the Americans allow the mobs to destroy the priceless heritage of ancient Mesopotamia? And all this happened while U.S. Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, was sneering at the press for claiming that anarchy had broken out in Baghdad."
Half an hour later, the Independent columnist famous British writer Robert Fisk contacted the civil affairs unit of the U.S. Marines in Saadun Street and gave them the exact location of the museum and the condition of its contents, Fisk said.

A captain told Fisk that "we're probably going to get down there". Bit too late. Iraq's history had already been trashed by the looters whom the Americans unleashed on the city during their "liberation", he said.

'You are American!" a woman shouted at the British writer in English Saturday morning, wrongly assuming he was from the United States.

"Go back to your country. Get out of here. You are not wanted here. We hated Saddam and now we are hating Bush because he is destroying our city."

It was a mercy she could not visit the Museum of Antiquity to see for herself that the very heritage of her country _as well as her city _has been destroyed, Fisk said

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WE ARE AGAINST WAR, DESTROYING & KILLINGN IN ANY PLACE .... EVEN AT AMERICA IT SELFE .....

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/assaulted2.jpg

for revenge and self defense
paved by a river of oil
this road to peace makes no sense
the serpent of hate will recoil

So let me get this straight... The fact that Iraqi artifacts, historical artifacts, Summerian artfiacts, are being destroyed by Iraqi erm... what, looters? (I guess that term will suffice) is somehow supposed to translate to "It's Americas's fault Iraqis have no respect for their own history".

You people just want to point fingers, don't you? Aim, fire. Not a single thought beforehand. No friggin' idea.

No one said that the war against Iraq is going to be difficult for US but everyone was concerned about the time after the war. US always thought that it can control everything easily. However, things are not going the way US wants them to be. So, in my opinion US failed in the war against Iraq for 3 reasons

-where is Saddam?
-where are the mass destruction weapons?
-the chaos in Iraq (yesterday people raped other people in hospitals.. someone has to stop this and this someone is US cause US started it and has to clean it. I think the life of the Iraqis is much worst than it was with Saddam right now)

Go back to your country. Get out of here. You are not wanted here. We hated Saddam and now we are hating Bush because he is destroying our city."

That lady is a RETARD. The Iraqi people looted their own museum, not American soldiers. The Iraqi people looted their own stores, not American soldiers. This isn't showing that America is bad bad bad. This is showing that people can be stupid stupid stupid. If Iraqi's had any respect for their culture, then they wouldn't have looted the museum.

And I'll go into this again. Complain about how the American's got rid of Iraqi soldiers without killing that many civilian's, but then complain that civilian's died. But that that number is pretty low, and that it could be higher. Complain about how America isn't stopping the looting, but when we put soldiers on the streets, that's martial law. Please, stop being hypocrites.

perhaps you do not really understand the nature of man's barbarity and how civic behaviour depends on the fact that punishment and retribution will be a consequence of transgressing the law and other socially defined standards of behaviour.

take away the cops and you would be in for a rude awakening as to what transpires after law and order breaks down

i would also make concessions to the iraqi's behaviour. consider what they have been thru, their current condition and perhaps at least a little understanding could be had as to why they trashed their shit. neither should you ignore the segment of society that opposed and tried to stop the looters. my experience (la riots) is that a small criminal element usually is responsible for most of the shit. others tag along for the ride.

implying personal responsibilty is cool but unrealistic. this aint no mystical/ethical/nirvana type trip the iraqi's are going thru.

there is a complete breakdown in iraqi society. before bombs> cool, after bombs>chaos. its that simple.

I think what they are worked up about is that months before the war people were warning the US and the rest of the Coallition about the fact that the jails had been almost emptied so criminals were rife, that there would be a lot of unrest if they collaps thy regeim running the country and especially re: critical infrastructure and Museums, the Iraqi musuems have some of the oldest and most valuable and unstudied artifacts...or had...on the face of the earth, now all gone for all time excpet those that turn up in the hands of private collectors through the pipe lines.

They were asked, even begged and told that under the geneva convention, given they will by collapsing the regeime unleash this they must put in some force to protect the critical infrastructure and possbaly secondary the museusm and pricless heritage.

They didn't not only do they confine British troops to the smaller unimportant cities meaning we cannot help, they are also moving in to protect oil wells, Oil processing plants and only government buildings they intend to occupy or that house records of Oil surveys, this is fact already.
They left hospitals, museums, powerplants, universiteies all to the looters despite it happening in their face, despite the warnings and requests, one point they had 2 tanks inside the building that houses the records of oil surveys showing untapped wells, surrounded by troops, impenetrable, across the road a hospital and musuem are looted clean, the hospital staff fearing for their lives at the violence of the looters, despite requests for help they didnt lift a finger, what are they meant to feel towards these troops?

As far as I'm aware the small areas the Brits have been confined to are doing rather well and the lawlessness is being dealt with as best as possable.
US troops are not even trying let alone managing, so do you understand that they are going to be just a little pissed off that the police are scared to come out and be shot as militia by the US, that the US Troops threaten them, looters and criminals threaten them, they still have little or no water, power, food and all the US Troops do is protect the Oil sites ....what are they meant to feel?

The Iraqis have nobody to blame but themselves as far as the looting goes. Its not like we are having our own soldiers drag off their national treasures to put in the smithsonian. (though such actions are not unprecidented. Many european countries have done that through the ages)

funny how the museum is given prominence. more essential stuff was looted (hospitals/ambulances) but not too much outrage there. perhaps the euro/americans claim this shit as their heritage as well. co-opting other civs as thier own is a speciality!

news flash: (reuters) 5000 year old skeletons found in china. tentative identification indicate them to be of euro origin. could they have provided the mongols with the knowhow to start a civ? is chow mein really a euro dish? stay tuned for more updates!

No matter what you say about modern western civilizations you have to admit it is one of the least bloody ones in the history of mankind. Before you used to try to kill as many civillians as possible: it was called total warfare. Now it is only a depressing side effect.

Western culture may assimilate other cultures but it is done by the dollar and not the sword. Look at us hooking China by the use of Hong Kong. And it will be an improvement all around.

i think technology and economic systems are culture neutral for the most part, so i fail to see the relevance of your "hooking remark" hong kong is now powered by trade with china. do not be fooled by the business suits. these guys have their own culture

"modern" includes this century so you might wanna reconsider the
'least bloody" remark

Western culture IS the allmighty dollar. That isnt all bad because the better the masses are doing the better the better all the higher ups in the system are doing. The government wants you rich because rich people pay most of the taxes. The companies want you rich because rich people buy more stuff.

Its not half bad as cultures go. A little sucky as far as asthetics go but certainly better than the alternitives as far as personal wellbeing goes.

Remove the police from any metropolitan area in the US and you’ll have mass looting, raping, arson & worse within hours. The Iraqis are justifiable angry. If history is a guide it’s likely American soldiers were looting & raping too.

quick scenario.
If America was attacked or some disaster occoured that left you all without an organised Government and the police to scared to go out for fear of being killed on sight, are you telling me America would be a lovely peacefull place with no one going out to loot and pillage and rape and god knows what in the abscence of anyone who will punish them or keep any record of what happened.

Inssanah
for this the USA has my unlimited anger and hate :mad:
//ancient civilizations and their heritage is my hobby and blood

btw- I agree with the: USA started this all, it should clean it all up
it failed
what do you want from a country that has no culture :rolleyes:

quick scenario.
If America was attacked or some disaster occoured that left you all without an organised Government and the police to scared to go out for fear of being killed on sight, are you telling me America would be a lovely peacefull place with no one going out to loot and pillage and rape and god knows what in the abscence of anyone who will punish them or keep any record of what happened.

Exactly! So you can't exactly blame this on the Iraqi people. People will be stupid no matter what. People will loot museums no matter what, anyone would. But the people shouldn't bitch about it when there the ones doing it!

btw- I agree with the: USA started this all, it should clean it all up
it failed

So we put troops on the street and then you can bitch about it being martial law!

Why are people concerned about all this looting? Hell, I just bought a priceless sumarian sculpture on E-Bay for just 5 bucks!

America wouldnt blame the looting on any forign power. We would rightly blame it on the idiots running through the streets carrying tvs. THen we would get our guns, set camp in our shops and homes, and and by dawn there would be nobody willing to loot any more.

Originally posted by CounslerCoffee
People will loot museums no matter what, anyone would. But the people shouldn't bitch about it when there the ones doing it!

No, not anyone would. “They” were not the ones doing it. It was done to them by criminals, compliments of the US. Every society has criminals at large seeking opportunity. The US gave them the opportunity while its troops were protecting the oil fields.

We needn't impose martial law, we just need to help bring back the power of law enforcement. We need to take a couple other careful steps:

Without imposing martial law, assign military personnel to guard hospitals, museums, presidential palaces, and key historical sites from looters. They should have orders to stay *outside* and keep looters *out* and to not go inside. (that way, they cannot steal things)

Somebody also needs to make a plan for law enforcement for what to do in case military personnel are looting or raping etc.: this has been known to happen (yes, even with the wonderful amazing brilliant god-blessed stupendous super-dee-duper US soldiers have done it) and I wouldn't be surprised if soldiers tried to kill police that were trying to confront them about their illegal activities.

Originally posted by CounslerCoffee
So we put troops on the street and then you can bitch about it being martial law!
no- martial law would be just fine for some months

Yes any country in this situation has the "Arseholes" and "Criminals" in the woodworks waiting for something like this to happen to take advantage of it thats why especially in such an "Illegal" Pre-emptive war the onus is even greater on the Occupying power to put in their own forces to protect such pricless historical sights and critical infrastructure.
It is the fact that not only did America know this was going to happen and did nothing but the fact that what they DID do was to put tanks and troops in huge numbers around oil fields and the such like which when your in a country your trying to convince them your "Liberating" them not the oil..this was never going to go well.
On top of that the fact that 3 incidents we know about so far of US Troops shooting Police and letting the crimnals get away becuase the police obviously had arms or were in uniform or both, now that they are either too scared to go out and do their job, even civillians are scared to take up arms to protect themselves or be shot by the troops, and the few police you do allow out are both unarmed AND the remains of Sadams Baa'th party police who have been killing and torturing the population for years....again not helping public opinion or making anyone feel safe.
This was inevitable but the complaint is not only did the US do nothing to prepare or prevent this, in fact quite the opposite they are making it worse, they also look very much to profit from this in both re-building and by the fact they are trying to force through another law queitly saying that any art or artifact from Iraq can be bought and exepmpt from the law saying this is Stolen property so American collectors who placed orders for many of these artifacts before the war.hmmmm...can now collect their orders without risk from prosocution or seizure, they say this law is just for several reasons that basically came down to: The US do not recognise Saddams regeime therfore his countries goods are not protected, there is no power in place at the moment so its free for all, and most disgustingly, they Iraqi people are too poor and stupid to look after this and it would all be better in the hands of private American Collecters.

Vast US corporate looting of Iraq may be organizing and transpiring unseen. They will need to cover their tracks carefully, but I doubt this is possible. BushCorp came to power in the wrong century to succeed. The world won't play colonial ball anymore.

hey, marqius,

your wasting your time pal, the anti american retoric displayed by these people cannot be countered by the facts, by the truth.

the truth is fine for these people if it reflects their thoughts and views, but if not forget it. If you act your wrong, if you don't act your wrong.

The USA supports Israel and whilst that continues it will be hated by most of the arab and islamic world. Trouble is that even if you manage to broker a solution for the palestinian problem, you will still be hated, why? because hate is all these losers have and nasty old uncle sam would have even taken away from them the only pretence they had for hate.

Yes there are a lot of people who are blinded by hate, some for good reason but never the less.
Not sure to whom you were refering but in my posts i simply pointed out some of the facts as you say that are being used by many as an example of why they hate the US so much or why they should leave Iraq.

There are two sides to everycoin, whilst many will claim every mistake the US makes will be jumped upon by Anti-US people, but then tbh the US makes a lot of mistakes that makes it very easy for people to hate them, reduce that you inveriably reduce or discredit the other.

you talk sense Pysco-cannon, the US does make a lot of mistakes (I'm not american by the way) and their biggest mistake is not understanding why large parts of the world do not want to be 'just like them'.

But the USA is the only country in the world with strength (military and moral) to do something about the security of the world. They do more good than bad.

ladies and gentelmen that was a miniature example of how some of us r so easily desieved......

about looting in Iraq:
It's simple. There would be no looting if America did not attack Iraq. America was responsible for destroying the (bad) iraqi government and iraqi police, Therefore America is 100% responsible for setting and enforcing law in Iraq.

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