Look you this!

Sci is back!

I never dreamed that I would climb over the moon in ecstasy. Nevertheless that is where I'm shortly about to be!!!!!!

Cuz'... I've got a Golden Ticket!

(It's OURS, Water!)

I've got a Golden Chance to make my way!
And with a Golden Ticket it's a Golden Day!!!


Yippee!!

Morons! :o

And what's your problem, Cottontop?
You've found a different place and now hold Sci in contempt?
Because your few weeks here were enough to understand what the place was like
What it had to offer?

No. I don't think so.
You've said, yourself, what you prefer about this place than the other. The presence of many, many people. Not the presence of specific people. But just people.

You're here for the social gathering. Aren't you?

Well. I, for one, and Water, for two, know exactly what this place is like. What it has to offer. We have placed much of our energy and hundreds of thousands of words here. We've learned, loved, and laughed here (sorry for the 'we', water. I think I'm safe in this though.)

What have you done here, Cottontop?
Chatted it up?
Will you come back if analbeads does?

it's on, it's off, it's on, it's off .. I'm glad it's back on but I'm pretty pissed and less forgiving. How about a good explanation, huh?

What's it worth, invert if the guy holding the keys to your lovely home just doesn't give a flying fuck nor does he even give you the common curtesy of a short explaination. Nor does he give an explaination to the people who he put in charge of looking after the place?

People have a right to be pissed. It's everyone's time and effort that goes into the site, not Dave's alone.

I agree, if the owner of this site doesn't want to deal with it anymore, perhaps he should hand over control to the moderators. I went to "thescienceforum.com" and found many old sciforums members giving up on this site. that is a shame, this site is great, when it is up.

it would not have been so bad if there was some kind of explanation. at least to the moderators.

What do you think persistent database errors would indicate? The explanation is self-evident I think.

The site is outgrowing its home. The problem is, to find a new home requires money. Who provides that money - it ain't Arditezza, it ain't invert_nexus, it ain't the moderators. Bitch and complain all you want, call me an asshole all you want, but that doesn't change the simple economic fact that the site makes $0 yet costs me a non-trivial amount of money. Are abuse and an empty pocket my rewards for running this site? It would appear so.

I had been quite ready to bite the bullet and accept the newly heightened expenses for the site, but if no one appreciates this, then I see no point. My motivation is close to exhaustion.

Errm.
Nobody appreciates this?
What part of my glorious song about Golden Tickets didn't you understand?

I'm elated to have this site back.
I'm not entirely happy with the weeks-long absence without any word on what's going on or not going on either. But, despite that I am in full recognition and utter appreciation for the return of the forums and am hopeful that the site will stay up.

I love this place, Dave.
I don't think that any other site I've ever seen comes close to comparing to it.
Don't even think that I don't appreciate what we have here.
Sheesh. I just erupted into song over it... How much more appreciative can you get?


As to money.
Google's actions are despicable.
I can't believe they yanked their ads because of that lost month.
They pay by the click so why should they care?
They certainly didn't lose a drop of bandwidth in that month.
Hopefully you'll be able to work something out with them to get them back. The site was making a slight profit the last I heard. Like a cup of coffee's worth or something was your claim if I remember right.
Will the Amazon ads make up the difference do you think?

If not, then a call for donations might be in order.

Dave.
This site is, hands-down, the only site on the internet that I would call home. I visit other sites. But I dwell here.

Don't cast away my home.


Edit: Note. I'm not completely forgiving and happy about the silence either. The problem may have been self-evident to you, Dave, but to us it was not.

Anyway. While I would like to be more informed over these issues (and being ill-informed is the basis of my dissatisfaction) that doesn't take away the thrill and the joy of seeing this place back online once more.

Fuck all of you that can't utter a simple hooray before asking for an explanation.

so... you need to change hosts? or is it just that you can't pay the one you have? what about banners? I could deal with more banners if it meant sciforums could stay up. I could even deal with a pop up once per visit. this site is a rare commodity, and worth protecting.

I am sorry for lashing out, but it seemed as though you didn't care since nobody heard anything.

Dave,

Tell me, how much does it cost to maintain sciforums?

How much throughput/bandwith does it need?

yes, let us know what you need help with. you may be the land lord, but it is our home. =]

All you had to do was ask. I give to three different forums right now, and I would gladly shell out money for here.

But you didn't even attempt to let anyone know. You didn't tell anyone why it was down, or what they could do about it. Had you PM'ed Coffee, he could have let us know the details and we could have sent you money through paypal to get it back up. You obviously underestimate how much people love this place. You need a second administrator to take care of things when you are either too busy, or just not interested. You also should keep people aware. This is our home too, it's bigger than your personal interest in it. Had you said the word, I would have donated a long time ago and there are many who would have as well.

Thank you for bringing it back up, but forgive me if I worry about it's future due to the current circumstances.

I was in NO CAPACITY to let you know - give me the benefit of the doubt on this. Christ, the money is secondary. The fact that you're berating me over this IS the issue. If all you want to do is insult and disrespect me, then why the hell should I waste my time and money? I don't need the hassle of presiding over something this dysfunctional.

what does it cost to run this site?

Porfiry,

It does seem that you do underestimate the place your site holds in the hearts of its members.

Can you blame people for being pissy over having their favorite forum and valuable threads taken away with no word of explanation?

The first time it went down, I'd managed to get the story out of you by email. So, those who found the 'refugee camp' had the knowledge that things would be fixed in a month. This time there were no such assurances. This time there was doubt and suspicion. Fear and dread.

There will always be people who do not appreciate what they have. What this place offers. And they'll triumph in sharing their bitterness with others.

But, fuck them.

Sciforums is... like some word I can't think of right now. Something wonderful and shiny and magical. Yes. There are negative aspects to it. But these are far outweighed by the positive.

Dave. Don't give up on this site.
Try to understand just how meaningful it is to its members.
And all complaints are not negative. There is such a thing as constructive criticism.
We love this place and we want it to survive.
Let us help you.
Don't shut yourself down at the slightest hint of anger and hurt feelings.

Sciforums should not be allowed to die.

Tell me.
When's the last time that you looked at this place with a sparkle in your eye?
Was it ever so special to you?
Or has it just been a mundane chore?
Do you think its Golden Age is past and never to return as do some of the older members?
Don't you sometimes feel like hugging the old gal and lifting her out of her depression?

She loves you, Dave.


I was in NO CAPACITY to let you know - give me the benefit of the doubt on this. Christ, the money is secondary.

Ah.
Ok then.
It's just that it was noticed that your development blog was updated at least once. And it was at this time that people started to get antzy. This was very recently, I believe.

Anyway. This goes to show that perhaps, as Skinwalker recommended in another thread, that there should be some tighter communication between admin and owner.
Give someone else the spare keys to the car, so to speak.
Is this possible?

Let us know how we can ensure the survival of this site.

Somewhere around $3000 per year. American.

Dave, if it comes down to the site going down for good due to costs, please let me know. I'll be happy to give it a home. I have an entire rack full of Dell servers and next to unlimited bandwidth. It's not worth anything to me personally, however it appears to be worth a lot to many others. The difference between us (the two forums) is that I can float for years without worrying about any expense. The benefits for me would be targeted advertising to businesses that I own. It would not really change anything from the users standpoint. The domain name would not even be needed.

Just a thought to keep in mind.

I don't need the hassle of presiding over something this dysfunctional.

Many families are dysfunctional.
But that doesn't mean we're not family.
Even that crazy, deformed cousin locked in the basement that eats babies when she occasionally breaks her chains and runs amuck... (you know who I mean...)

(In)Sanity,

It would not really change anything from the users standpoint. The domain name would not even be needed.

And it would be free of your particular brand of forum management? (I.e. vulgarity not frowned upon?)


(In)Sanity, by the way, is the owner of our little refugee camp on the far shores of the long river. In case you weren't aware of the drama taking place in the disparate realms of the net.

I frequent a site that costs over $20 000 a year to maintain. It has no advertisements and is completely supported by donations.

I and other sciforumers would be happy to help subsidize this site. It could definately work.



Have you looked at alternatives to adsense?
http://www.internet-search-engines-faq.com/google-adsense-alternatives.shtml
http://www.clicksor.com/
http://www.kanoodle.com/about/brightads.cool

Thank you Dave :)

$3000 US a year. Jesus Porf! Is that it?!! Why don't you put a "donate $1" paypal button. You have a gold mine here and you don't even know it!

And what's your problem, Cottontop?
You've found a different place and now hold Sci in contempt?
Because your few weeks here were enough to understand what the place was like
What it had to offer?

No. I don't think so.
You've said, yourself, what you prefer about this place than the other. The presence of many, many people. Not the presence of specific people. But just people.

You're here for the social gathering. Aren't you?

Well. I, for one, and Water, for two, know exactly what this place is like. What it has to offer. We have placed much of our energy and hundreds of thousands of words here. We've learned, loved, and laughed here (sorry for the 'we', water. I think I'm safe in this though.)

What have you done here, Cottontop?
Chatted it up?
Will you come back if analbeads does?

Dear Invert Nexus,

Thank you for your concern.

Sincerely yours,
analbeads

US$3000 a year! Yikes!

Well, I'll appreciate sciforums as long as it lasts, Dave.

All I ask is that if you decide to take it down, please give us a little notice.

I was in NO CAPACITY to let you know - give me the benefit of the doubt on this. Christ, the money is secondary. The fact that you're berating me over this IS the issue. If all you want to do is insult and disrespect me, then why the hell should I waste my time and money? I don't need the hassle of presiding over something this dysfunctional.
Huumm.. maybe the reason why sciforums is so popular is because it IS disfunctional...

Sometimes I wonder if you are all part of my bizarre imagination...
Or maybe monkeys in typewriters...
Or some sort of weird US government psychological experiment...

In any case... errr... it is the disfunction makes sciforums sciforums...
Specially invert, btw.... :D

Somewhere around $3000 per year. American.
AH!

Dear Invert Nexus,

Thank you for your concern.

Sincerely yours,
analbeads

Invert is a bitter, bitter person (dude I think). He wrote me off long ago, and I don't really give a shit what his dumb-ass thinks anymore. :o

dave, just post a bank account number or postage address on the header bar thingy, and you will get the money

wait! nobody has put 2 and 2 together. why doesn't (in)sanity host sciforums? if he is just sitting on the bandwidth, he might be able to host sciforums at much less than 3k/year.

how about it dave/(in)sanity? you guys should work out a deal. moreover, (in)sanity hosts a science forum, why not just dump TSF and make a new home for sciforums? we can all be one big happy family =]. although, I am not sure if (in)sanity's hardware can hold all of us, but you two get talking.

Donations don't work. It's been tried here, the last time there was a crisis. They're not sustainable.

If each concerned member clicks the ad and visits the pages (let it open in a new window) atleast 10 times a day, would it help?

Everneo,

No. That would be a bad idea.
In fact, it appears that something of the sort might be part of what happened to the google ads in the first place?


Porfiry,

Could we please get some information?
You're saying the google ads were pulled because of fraud charges from Google? 'Zealots' clicking ads randomly?
I know that the ads were mentioned from time to time, and in those discussions, the subject of clicking ads randomly inevitably arose. But I wasn't aware that anyone was actually doing it.
And how could Google be aware of it?

I had thought the problem was not enough people clicking the ads because of the missing month. If such were the case, then it should be a simple matter of getting them back.

The ads were paying the bills, weren't they? I distinctly remember you saying they were at one time.


Anyway.
Donations don't work. It's been tried here, the last time there was a crisis. They're not sustainable.

So what should we do then?
Are you giving up?
Or is it that you are prepared to pay the bills on your own but want appreciation for doing so?

This site means to much, to too many, for us to just let it go without a fight.
There has to be things that we can do.

Is the site even in danger?
Or is the latest 3-week hiatus an occurence that won't happen again?

We're all in the dark here and would appreciate some information on options and possibilities.

There's hard feelings all around. Let's try to just drop all that shit and get down to brass tax.

What can we do to help you?
What can we do to help the site?
What is the status of the site? Now and in the near future. And the distant future.


It's been recommended to me to speak to you personally rather than through thread to try to express just how much sciforums means to me and to others. I... vetoed that advice and have kept my conversation in public. Where the rest of those involved can join in with their echoes of support and respect.

But, I want to make it clear to you just how much this site does mean. I don't know what it means to you. You've never partaken of it in my time here other than random posts here and there. I have no idea what you are like as a person. What interests you find here. Any spark of life that may be inspired in you from this place.
I wish I did. But I don't.
But, I think that you simply aren't aware of what you have here.

Sciforums is a precious gem. An oasis in a barren wasteland. And, at present, you are the sole link to maintaining that oasis. We are powerless and it is this sense of futility that has caused the bitterness on the parts of certain members here.

Help us help you.
Information is power.
Ease this sense of helplessness in us.
Tell us what is the situation.

Is it safe to remain?

Southstar asked me in some thread, either here or elsewhere, about if Sciforums is even alive anymore after these outages.
And. It's not. Not right now. But it's in a state of shock and confusion. Uncertainty.
To cure it we must become cerrtain. We must feel safe to devote our time and energy to it once more.

Please.
Just open up and tell us what's going on.

Well, I really like Sciforums and would donnate some money for it if asked to do so, but if it has already been tried and was not working out well, then it seems this site needs to rely on the income from advertisments.
I also admire Porfiry's work on keeping this site up besides the great cost and time, especially so, considering that he barely posts here anymore.

Aside from that, about the Google ad thing, found this in the New York Times, sorry for copy and pasting that text, but it can only be read by those who are registered otherwise.


What's Online
Click Fraud and Halli-Bloggers


By DAN MITCHELL
Published: July 16, 2005

GOOGLE is expected to announce next week that its revenue doubled over the last year, to $841 million or so. A huge chunk of that is a result of someone's tapping a mouse button. Through its AdWords program, Google is paid when people click on the keyword-generated ads that appear next to search results. Not surprisingly, a lot of people try to game the system - for instance, by repeatedly clicking on a competitor's ad links.
Skip to next paragraph
Dave Ember

Related "Beware of the 'Halli-bloggers'" (salon.com)

New Scientist magazine

"The Stupidest Lawsuit Since the World Began" (groklaw.net)

Click Defense Inc. sued Google last month, contending that it hasn't done enough to prevent "click fraud." And in discussions on sites like Slashdot and SearchEngineWatch, some are wondering whether the search companies' very existence is threatened by the tactic.

Is Google really to blame? Many Slashdotters are skeptical. They note that Google has sued click fraudsters. Others who advertise on Google say it routinely credits them when click fraud is detected.

In its suit, Click Defense says it bought ads tied to the search terms "click fraud" and itself became a victim of click fraud. "Google has an inherent conflict of interest," because it makes money whether or not a click is legitimate, Click Defense says in the suit.

A Slashdotter using the name AnObfuscator sums up the feelings of many toward Click Defense: "Their main product is to prevent, you guessed it, click fraud. Hmmmm, a few minutes ago I didn't know that such a product existed, but now that they've sued Google, I do."

source: New York Times

What can we do to help you?
What can we do to help the site?
What is the status of the site? Now and in the near future. And the distant future.

I don't know. I have no answers. The site has no sustainable future as far as I can see. With the economics the way they are, the only way for the site to exist is for me to keep pouring money into it. I obviously have no particular desire to do so.

This is just a bunch of unfortunate events. First, my web hosting company kills the database (due to size and activity) as I wander North Africa. The site comes back up a month later, the resulting spike in advertising activity looks suspicious to Google, so they kill my advertising account. I spend weeks trying to argue with Google, but their advertising division is so secretive that there's no chance for any human discussion. The site is now penniless, and the web hosting company decides to kill the database again. I happen to be wandering the industrial wastelands of Eastern Canada and cannot deal with it. The site comes back up again after I agree to temporarily shell out more money to the hosting company, and I receive an unprecedented torrent of abuse. At the moment, I would have been happier today if the site remained down. Time will tell if this sentiment remains.

So.. maybe a solution is to put Sciforums with their database on the persons' server who proposed that and just redirect all traffic from here to there, or just park the sci domain at that end.

That is in the case if you Porfiry decide to take the site down. Of course it's your work, money and your rights to do so, I don't think anyone objects that,
but we would really appreciate if you share the database in case Sciforums on your server is terminated.

The posts at this place.. well it's our (members) common knowledge and time invested.

Whatever you decide, thank you for the time and energy that you have put into this site. I, for one, have had many interesting disscussions here and have learned a great deal from many of its members. :cool:

Please. There are people of knowledge and business here.

Find us a solution to keep Sci alive.

Somewhere around $3000 per year. American.

Holy Shit!

Well you are to be praised and adulated for keeping it up this long then. I doubt such a hefty sum will ever be sustainable.

P.S. I'm sure invert and co wouldn't mind if you put up some porn pop ups and ads..

I don't know if that sum is more than what is regular for hosting one's own forum but maybe you can take it down every Monday or something like that - at least for the time being?

Don't be offended by some of the members indignance because a lot of the members had the notion that you didnt' give a shit period. I can tell you that $3000 is more money than I've ever seen at any one time so jig if you want to invert's song. Reasonably speaking, there is no way to come up with a permanent solution, or $3000, before the month ends. I think James R has seen this and has conceded that sci's day is over. Once our elation has lasted, you can safely put a plan into action to remove sciforums by putting up only archives of the old stuff (at least for a few weeks afterwards) just to make us happy.

We're old enough to organize life after sciforums and although thescienceforums is.. shitty.. I think home is what we make it. Cheer up gang! We've done it here and we can do it elsewhere if that's what we really put our minds to. You probably don't like to hear this but maybe it's time for a change. After complaining of the forum's stagnance and banality for so long seems like the gig is up. Hopefully that asshole insanity doesn't capitalize on this because I'm not posting in his damn forum as long as sci is up.

EDIT: As far as keeping this place up goes, we surely don't need every thread. We can have votes in - gasp, Open Government - to delete antiquated or inane threads. I am quite sure at least a third of the database is no longer read regularly. Those who still want the threads can easily archive them for personal reference.

What do you say all?

I don't know. I have no answers. The site has no sustainable future as far as I can see. With the economics the way they are, the only way for the site to exist is for me to keep pouring money into it. I obviously have no particular desire to do so.

Well, Dave.
I just have to say that this is the worst news I've heard all year.

So.
The question is... are you just being pissy about what you see as 'abuse' or are you really serious about shutting the site down?

I don't see why you feel that member contributions are unworkable. Xerxes has mentioned that sites that cost 20,000 a year in hosting fees all provided by member support. He's also given other options for advertising. (Speaking of advertising, Google's part in this is shameful.) (In)Sanity's offer is one of last resort as I strongly suspect he intends only on taking the threads into his forum and then running them himself.

I guess I'd better get to archiving threads then.

I guess I have nothing left to say.
You've just pronounced a death sentence on a home that I loved more than I think you'll ever know. I wish that things could be different.

Perhaps someone will step forward to take over the reins? I would, but at the moment I'm in no position to do so. In a month, two, three.. maybe. But it's now that counts and right now I am in no position to take over.

I don't know what else to say but that I am incredibly sad right now.
So incredibly sad.




Southstar,

Do you live in a trailer? Oh, that's right you're just a kid. $3,000 dollars is shit. Maybe it's a lot to drag together from nothing in a matter of minutes, but I've saved more than that since quitting smoking. And spend that amount, easily, on other useless garbage. It's throwaway money.

I'm not discounting Dave's contributions, no. Just saying that it's not that big a deal to spend that much money in a year.


As to deleting old threads. There's always the archive. I'm unsure if how much space it saves to dump threads into the database, but perhaps it saves some.

I don't know what to do.
I think that Dave is more tired of it all than anything else.
With the will to continue, the rest would fall in line quickly enough.

I'm so incredibly sad about this.
Fair Sciforums was my love in the beautiful year of '05.
And when she was gone, some part of me will die with her.

I'm also saving a copy of sciforums (at least the sections of it I need)
When Sci were down and I needed a particular thread of mine I used the Internet Way Back Machine (http://www.archive.org/) to get it.

have you talked with (in)sanity dave? see if he will host you while you still have control. or if you are tired of the site, talk to (in)sanity about a hands off takeover of sciforums. an oasis is the perfect description of this place. the internet is full of crap, and crappy forums, this place gives me hope for mankind.

how much bandwidth/whatnot (I know nothing about hosting a site) do you need to keep sciforums up? if you give me some figures I can talk to (in)sanity to see if he can handle it. I would really rather keep sciforums the way they are, but having (in)sanity take them over is better than having them die.

As to deleting old threads. There's always the archive. I'm unsure if how much space it saves to dump threads into the database, but perhaps it saves some.

I was thinking more along the lines of deleting some threads completely - not archiving them at all. Not an expert on databases so I wouldn't know if that's possible or not but surely a good chunk of sciforums is no longer being read.

Don't be so melancholy; you saw this coming didn't you? If it's the threads you're interested in, they can be archived; if it's the members, they can be contacted through other channels; if it's the feel of the place.. well, hell.. can't really do much about that.

I think removing useless content to save space and shutting down the site one or two days out of every week will cut down substantially. If we are truly concerned about keeping sci up, these measures will seem trivial and we will adapt eventually to them.

Moneywise.. I ain't got none to give. Unless any of you deal in cedis..

Dave,

It looks like you have more than a few members here who are willing to help support SciForums in various ways (money, time, resources, talent). Let us know what you need and what we can do to help. Perhaps you can start a topic for this purpose. Let us know what kind of support you need and we can figure out a way to maintain it.

~Raithere

The ads were paying the bills, weren't they? I distinctly remember you saying they were at one time.

And some beer... I remember that...

If the site cannot be kept running, then a decision is to be made and a notification of it posted.


If possible, there should be a two-week advance notice, so that there will be time for people to download what they want.


And we can have a good-bye party.


*tear*

have you talked with (in)sanity dave? see if he will host you while you still have control. or if you are tired of the site, talk to (in)sanity about a hands off takeover of sciforums. an oasis is the perfect description of this place. the internet is full of crap, and crappy forums, this place gives me hope for mankind.
Huuumm... I agree with that. I still think it might be some weird experiment...



I wish I had $3,000...

Can't anyone donate $3,000? Or maybe if 3 people donated $1,000....
It is not really that much to people that earn around some $40,000 per year....!

If the site cannot be kept running, then a decision is to be made and a notification of it posted.


If possible, there should be a two-week advance notice, so that there will be time for people to download what they want.


And we can have a good-bye party.


*tear*
OMG!! This is so strange! I feel like hugging you!
(Yeeeeeeeeeeewwww!!!!)

Anyways... some sites have donate buttons! Like those:
http://www.the-underdogs.org
http://www.simtropolis.com/

Ex: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr

Why wouldn't that work? Those sites have HUGE databases and they need thousands of $$$$ to survive....

Prof-
I am suprised to here that the hosting company gave you so much trouble... maybe you should remind them that you are a customer and you are giving them money. They should treat you with more respect.

Thanks again and let me know if I can help with anything.

Hasta,
T

you should remind them that you are a customer and you are giving them money. They should treat you with more respect.

What planet are you living on?

Interesting...no one can just apologize for being berating to Dave...instead they keep going on and on.

Instead of further discussion, I think he'd appreciate it if you popped a $20 in his pocket instead.

Why not go back to paid avatars and signatures?

Sarge,

Who's berating him?
I think that the only one that could be said to have berated him was Arditezza and she's in no condition to 'apologize'.
Well. I guess Cato kinda berated him a little. But he did apologize. At least he said, "I'm sorry." That's generally accepted as an apology...

Me, personally, I'm mourning what looks like the demise of this site. And I've been trying to express to him what it means to me and to others.

Berating?
We reading the same thread?

Anyway.
As to 2o bucks in his pocket. He, himself, has said that donations are not the answer. They've been offered. And denied.

And now?
I guess we wait for 'time to tell'.
I'm hopeful he's just feeling a bit pissy and will get over it. My fingers are crossed.


Southstar,

if it's the feel of the place.. well, hell.. can't really do much about that.

Exactly.
There's not much that can be done about that.
Sciforums is unique. And when it is gone. It is gone.

Dave,

What do you think about (In)sanity's suggestion?

As the owner of sciforums you can give him the rights for advertising and in turn he would host your site for free. It seems fair and mutually beneficial deal.

Porfiry. Dave Watanabe of Australia.

I love this place.
I love you for keeping it running as long as it did.

There are people who cry and whine because you "don't talk".
There are also people who are, silently or not, rooting for you.

Keep this place running.
Or shut it down.
I will root for you no matter what choice you make on the matter.

Take heart.

Please. There are people of knowledge and business here.

Find us a solution to keep Sci alive.


Ha!! :rolleyes:

Hey!

Am I delusional or did I see a PayPal cash donation box next to the top post earlier today?

I even clicked on it and it worked. Now it's gone. What gives?

Maybe it was being tested!!!

A pity that PayPal doesn't work with Latvian banks (or Eastern Europe for that matter). I won't be able to donate.

Porfiry, or Dave, whichever you prefer, I am haven't been here very long, and despite this, and despite the recent problem, I have found this place to be the premier forum around. There are all different kinds of people here, from everywhere, and whether they're religious or atheist, liberal or conservative, crazy or sane, right or wrong, they have moved in to the communtiy you created for them and have kept running for them and made it their home. I would understand if it was about money, and you've made it clear that's not it. I understand if its about lack of appreciation. You've got to remeber in that case that some people are uncaring assholes, but not everyone is. You might feel like shutting down the site because of people attacking you over the little difficulties, and I wouldn't blame you. You should remeber, though, that the actions we take cause a ripple affect on others. I am sure you have friends here. Getting rid of this site would hurt them. This would be unintentional, and they would still be your friends, but it would hurt. It is an unfortunate predicament to be in when you are doing something that is stressful and draining and you don't even want to continue because the work isn't worth the reward. I do know what that is like. Even so, their must be something about this place that you love, or you wouldn't continue. Just, please, don't give up on us. Their is always a way to get the best outcome as long as you try.

A pity that PayPal doesn't work with Latvian banks (or Eastern Europe for that matter). I won't be able to donate.
OMG! That's racism against Latvians! Latvians should rule the world! All hail to the Latvians!!!

I'm sorry... sometimes I'm kinda anal expulsive.... or whatever Freud called...

Maybe it was being tested!!!

I'm sure that was it. It was up for only a very short time. And porfiry was online for the same short time.

It appears sci really is going down. Closet Philosopher offered to buy the forums (she alledged) and received no reply.

Sum'n stinks here and I don't like fish.

Here's what I think is going on.
Dave was just angry at what he saw as being berated about the recent outages. He doesn't really want to shut the forums down. After all, they do serve some purpose for his software (although, he could shut down the sciforums part and maintain his smaller software part for a lot less money).

If he was really interested in shutting down the site, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't sell it to any who would offer him the money for it.

He even said in that 'last post' thread that people are being pessimistic which sort of implies that he is not entirely prepared to shut down the site as it might have seemed.

Perhaps he has come to realize that this site is valuable and that a large portion of its users love it like no other place on the web. Or, perhaps he's just waiting for it to prove itself. I've seen him on browsing some of the dumb free thoughts threads that seem to be the main life of the forum right now. If the latter is the case, I hope that he realizes that there is most likely a good number of more serious posting that is not being done for the sole reason of uncertainty.

I love this place. But, I'm not prepared to invest a great deal of time and energy into any threads until I have some kind of reassurance of the longevity of the site. I suspect others feel the same. Frankly, I'm surprised by the number of people that are posting as if nothing had happened and as if there were no danger of their words and their participation vanishing in the wink of an eye. I wish more people would step up and say how they feel about the forums and their desire for it to continue.

Closet Philosopher offered to buy the forums (she alledged) and received no reply.

I certainly did reply - and got no response to my reply.

Porfiry:

I clicked on the donation box and it seemed to work. Later that day, I got my credit card and was going to donate $100.00 (US). It said you needed $600.00 for the next six months or so. When I looked for it again, it was gone.

???

Once that's on, surely, Google's might reconsider?

As far as I can tell, no human beings work at Google - all it's decisions are made by a giant omniscient computer. I don't think it's been programmed to admit mistake.

As far as I can tell, no human beings work at Google - all it's decisions are made by a giant omniscient computer. I don't think it's been programmed to admit mistake.

I feel for you Porfiry, honestly. I know what you mean. It's not just Google either.

As far as I can tell, no human beings work at Google - all it's decisions are made by a giant omniscient computer. I don't think it's been programmed to admit mistake.
So google's like the christian god? Arrogant, corrupt, insane, and all-knowing. Whoda though? :p
j/k