After reading through some of the earlier threads, it seems that there are some people here who know what they're talking about.

Can any of you please tell me what's the deal with the log files that providers keep about your surfing behaviour? It's the biggest reason for me not to use Kazaa.

I heard that they're supposed to keep the logs for three years.

What can they do with them? Is every little downloaded file in there?

What are log files worth legally?

Thank you very much.

Log files are like footprints in sand on a beach.
You can walk the whole length of the beach and leave a trail, on the most part there are many people walking across it's surface, which means there are many logs.

The Logs that are kept though can identify you, a bit like measuring your foot size, and even having it's print.

If your not doing anything wrong, then the logs shouldn't be of harm to you from a corporate perspective. They just get clues as to what you do, where you surf, and before you know it they are tailoring your advertisements to what they think you want to buy.

(So if you cruise round porn sites, your going to end up with hundreds of porn ads)

They could find out how much bandwidth you use, and get a better understanding of where the most traffic is.

From a point of view to a malicious user, They could get some info on where you travelled to download that program that crashes a portion of the NASA network (This is hypothetical) This would have that Warez shop closed pretty quickly and a bunch of systems patched in a jiffy.

Log files on servers at present aren't really fed into a network system to obtain information (there is no one strict body) each server on the net runs it's own rules only answering the law.

The problem is when the Malicious users, (Who usually are clever enough to hide their traces, or get script kiddies to act like their stooges [namely they don't do the crime but enlist])
Start using the log files to:
Know when your online, know how much stuff you buy, where you go to send you credit transactions online (the main prob) and possibly a bunch of data to phreak you to gain access to information on you, or money.

Not to forget that the Internet is GLOBAL, if a server is running a website in the US for a .OT (Made up for example), then that server by rights would be like soil sovereign to that country.
In other words it would be like an Embassy, that mustn't be messed with without the authority of that country.

This makes it difficult you see, as where you might get unsolicitated mail falling through your letterbox at home, you could end up with a GLOBAL version of this. Where your countries (or a particular countries) rules are specific about legal action against continued spam, another country will be lapse on such laws leaving them open to do what the heck they want.

Many people say "The internet wasn't built with security in mind", but I say "It most definitely wasn't built for commerce".

but if I understand correctly, you are talking about servers of all kinds of websites that keep information about what you do on their sites for commercial reasons. Then you warn about malicious users, who could attack your system or use creditcard information. Those things are of course very important, but I was really worrying about specific log files.

These are the log files that are kept by the provider, about EVERYTHING you do ANYWHERE on the net. They have to keep them for three years, someone told me.

So I wondered what could be the consequences of using file sharing programs. Is every downloaded mp3 in there? Can they prosecute you, based on the information in the logs? Do the providers keep a watchfull eye on activities, or is it just a pile of 1s and 0s where nobody's ever gonna make sense out of?

Usually people answer that there are millions of people using Kazaa and Morpheus, so that it is impossible to prosecute them all. I think these people forget that we are not one world order, but little separate countries. It isn't out of the question that they decide to review the log files and then ask money for copyrightviolations, is it?

I hesitate, because it is insane at what scale copyrights are being violated. The whole attitude towards property on the net has changed. Very few people are having moral problems with downloading the latest singles, cause it are only files and they are very easy to get.

Another argument used often is that Kazaa was found innocent of breaking the law. OK, but that doesn't mean that everything you do with the program is legal.

So, to go short, what to think about using Kazaa? Will my computer be confiscated? Will my provider shut down my internet connection? Will I have to pay up for all the copyrightviolations?

I know I am sounding paranoid, but I would really like a realistic, non heroic, non anarchistic straight answer.

Thank you!

I do not worry about it.
I have saved about 20000$ american (once counted)
and there is a chance of 1:500 000 000 tht I'll get caught.

besides-> we are really very much, they won't be able to get everyone...

In point.

There are basically only 2 ways you can get caught.

Either if your ISP periodically goes through the logs (or does so at random, or by order of the goverment or something) - or, someone suspects you in particular (like a ex-friend of your's or something, goes to your ISP and tells them he/she thinks you are DLing kiddy porn - that would give them reason to check).

On the first note, most ISP's (unless you are using like a service prodived to you for free, paid for by the company you work for, or something of the like) don't want to bother sifting through gigs and gigs of confusing IP addresses trying to track people down, who only do things like pirate music. They are more concerned about money and have better things to do with their time (hell, why do you think most responses to abuse reports are automated! :D )

On the second note, well that's kind of user specific. If you're a school principal, or a cop who's suspected of being dirty or something, then you might be more targeted for a specific search. Or heck, forget checking the logs, the police my come to your home and search your PC for child porn.

As for using kazza. In my opinion, most people who use kazza are scum. I've found that in most instances, they don't want to pay the people who have put in such hard effort to make the things they love. In my opinion, Bethesda deverses the $70 I paid for Morrowind. I feel it is a fair exchange, and I'm happy to pay it. I'm not some greedy bastard. I've also found that alot of people who use Kazza like to boast about their piracy, which makes me disgusted.

Now of course, using bootleg copies of Windows, or other microsoft products, does not bother me :)

thank you!

none of you convinced me to start using Kazaa, so once again :

thank you! :)

Clarentavious

There is one thing about the whole Theft through piracy that I have to agree with, and thats when you come across a program that has a retail value of $2000 like say ACAD or something.

No one in their right mind is going to pay this much for a program, on top of that there is the point that how can you justify this prince against someones work?

Afterall you create a prorgam and then sell it, but your not selling the original, your selling a copy, and you can make hundreds of thousands of copies to sell.

Not just that but the retail copy that sells at $2000 dollars is usually a higher version than an original verion, and the only differences are a few bug patches and an added feature over the original, making it a global software heist on pricing.

As far as I'm concerned if it's over $50 I'm not gonna pay.

tht is ok to pay that money if you live in the US or UK. I can not afford those prices for software. I agree tht such wonderful games as Deus-Ex or Uplink deserve to be paid for, but there's no way I can get tht money.

Here we have exact prices like in UK and sallaries smth like in Argentina.

How do you expect me to pay $399 for a software if I get about $30 a month. (can't get a job)

Well yes, I agree with you on that.

I'm not going to pay $3000 for a copy of 3D Studio Max.

The price has to be reasonable and a fair exchange; and in some cases, it is not (like $500 for Photoshop 6.0). Then I don't mind.

Glad we cleared that up.