While the human context is not the person, it is his “mode of self-representation.”

To explain further, a person represents himself to himself and to others by his perceptions, attractions, repulsions, emotions, thoughts, memories, beliefs, talks, actions and relationships.
(in other words the nature of our representation can change over time, ie we change our attractions, we change our repulsions, etc – quite literally, we change our minds all the time, yet our sense of “I” remains unchanged)

But his mode of self-representation is not himself. Again, it is a shadow of the person, formed out of the stuff of biology, psychology and society. Thus a person does not always prefer to take part in his own mode of self-representation. Often he is dissatisfied, shamed or even angered by what he represents. Still, for better or for worse, that is his self- image. This reveals a most important truth about our person and our power of choice: we are limited. We do not have the free will to be all that we might want to be.

It may be asked if we have any freedom at all. Are actions that seem to be the product of our own wills already fated to happen? If so, then where is our power of choice? Many people find life to be totally out of their control. But that in itself speaks for free will. How could a man feel as an obstacle the destiny that hangs over him if he did not also feel in himself free will? That bit of free will that appears as his dissatisfaction indicates that as much as he might pour himself into his time-defined self-image, he is never emptied by that pouring. He never wholly becomes what his actions represent, as good or as bad as they might be. This fact is apparent in the statement, "I was not myself when I did that." Detachment begins with this realization.

Willpower is essential to a person, but like other powers, we may strengthen or weaken it within limits. By culturing detachment, a person strengthens his will and gains more control over his life. By culturing attachment, a person weakens his will and loses control. But under no circumstances can free will be either extinguished or all-powerful.

Your going to kill yourself by thinking about that postmodernist epistemological crap.
What do you hope to succeed with this.

Your going to kill yourself by thinking about that postmodernist epistemological crap.
What do you hope to succeed with this.

if I had involved star trek or gandalf or anything vaguely related to genitals the thread would probably have 60 posts by now

anyway, given that the issue of free will pops up all the time, with evidence clearly being cited for both its existence and non-existence, "limited free will" seems to be the right measure

I'm not sure what exists of my essential core self, when I lose around 60 billion cells a day (some replaced, others not), and the psychological and social me continues to evolve in ways that I can't anticipate. Yes, yes, I'm self-referencing - it's unavoidable.

But anyway, the rest of it I agree with, more or less. I just wouldn't use a soiled term like free will. Can we not just call it pressures and choices?

I'm not sure what exists of my essential core self, when I lose around 60 billion cells a day (some replaced, others not), and the psychological and social me continues to evolve in ways that I can't anticipate. Yes, yes, I'm self-referencing - it's unavoidable.

But anyway, the rest of it I agree with, more or less. I just wouldn't use a soiled term like free will. Can we not just call it pressures and choices?
what you can anticipate is that "you" will be the same person - IOW you will have the same sense of "I" - such a foundation enables the legal system to function ("No your honour, I am not guilty - my body is completely different now, at the rate of 60 billion cells a day and besides I am undergoing ever increasing social changes, thus the person who performed the crime is not actually standing before you")

Limited free = free will.
So what's your point ?

Limited free = free will.
So what's your point ?can't be reduced to nil
can't be completely extinguished

can't be reduced to nil
can't be completely extinguished

So what you are saying is that there IS free will, no ?

So what you are saying is that there IS free will, no ?
as the OP states

Willpower is essential to a person, but like other powers, we may strengthen or weaken it within limits. By culturing detachment, a person strengthens his will and gains more control over his life. By culturing attachment, a person weakens his will and loses control. But under no circumstances can free will be either extinguished or all-powerful.

as the OP states

Willpower is essential to a person, but like other powers, we may strengthen or weaken it within limits. By culturing detachment, a person strengthens his will and gains more control over his life. By culturing attachment, a person weakens his will and loses control. But under no circumstances can free will be either extinguished or all-powerful.

Yes and I distill from that that there is free will. Do you agree or not ?

Yes and I distill from that that there is free will. Do you agree or not ?
free will within constraints - hence limited

free will within constraints - hence limited

A simple yes or no will suffice.. thanks.

So thats a no I guess.

-(in other words the nature of our representation can change over time, ie we change our attractions, we change our repulsions, etc – quite literally, we change our minds all the time, yet our sense of “I” remains unchanged)
if you change a part of anything, then it will change it all.
my name is 'Zein', and let's say there is another person has the same name< does it mean that we are the same person? what makes us different from each other? it's what the 'zein' consists of..the same here with the "I" if you change what it means, you've already changed it.

- This reveals a most important truth about our person and our power of choice: we are limited. We do not have the free will to be all that we might want to be.
and why is that? why we are "limited"?...if it is -let's say- society, then how does society do that to us, and why?..why?

-Willpower is essential to a person, but like other powers, we may strengthen or weaken it within limits. By culturing detachment, a person strengthens his will and gains more control over his life
that's right.

So thats a no I guess.
limited free will means that in some situations it exists and in others it doesn't (compare :absolute free will)

limited free will means that in some situations it exists and in others it doesn't (compare :absolute free will)

oooh,
I thought it means, that you can do stuff but you can't do it as you wish,you do it as the situations wish.

oooh,
I thought it means, that you can do stuff but you can't do it as you wish,you do it as the situations wish.
birds are free to fly in the sky - but only within certain limits of altitude

And in prison, to take another example: who your boyfriend will be isn't predetermined but the fact that you will have one is.

And in prison, to take another example: who your boyfriend will be isn't predetermined but the fact that you will have one is.
thus life illustrates a whole variety of different limitations for different persons (and further inquiry indicates that this is due to one's receiving the results to one's previous use of free will )
still it remains - free will can be neither extinguished nor absolute (http://youtube.com/watch?v=GUcXI2BIUOQ)
:D:D:D

limited free will means that in some situations it exists and in others it doesn't (compare :absolute free will)

If you are not going to say (I wonder why..) then I am.
You are saying that free will exists albeit limited. But it exists.

Do you agree with above statement or do you disagree with above statement ?

If you are not going to say (I wonder why..) then I am.
You are saying that free will exists albeit limited. But it exists.

Do you agree with above statement or do you disagree with above statement ?

:confused:

Zein Al-Abdeen

“
-(in other words the nature of our representation can change over time, ie we change our attractions, we change our repulsions, etc – quite literally, we change our minds all the time, yet our sense of “I” remains unchanged)
”
if you change a part of anything, then it will change it all.
my name is 'Zein', and let's say there is another person has the same name< does it mean that we are the same person? what makes us different from each other? it's what the 'zein' consists of..the same here with the "I" if you change what it means, you've already changed it.
that is why our representations (attractions/repulsions - our mind in general) are not inherent aspects of "I"'ness

“
- This reveals a most important truth about our person and our power of choice: we are limited. We do not have the free will to be all that we might want to be.
”
and why is that? why we are "limited"?...if it is -let's say- society, then how does society do that to us, and why?..why?
there are many limitations - the limitations of society however are but a minor sub set of the limitations of the universe (for instance if you lived in a society that freely allowed people to jump off buildings naked, that freedom wouldn't enable you to surpass the fact that you can't fly)

If you are not going to say (I wonder why..) then I am.
You are saying that free will exists albeit limited. But it exists.

Do you agree with above statement or do you disagree with above statement ?

I think Nina Simone (http://http://youtube.com/watch?v=GUcXI2BIUOQ) has the answer

I think Nina Simone (http://http://youtube.com/watch?v=GUcXI2BIUOQ) has the answer

Dud link. Why is it so hard for you to just say yes or no ?

Zein Al-Abdeen

“

there are many limitations - the limitations of society

based on what?
why does the society do that?

my lack of free will made me post here.... :)

Dud link. Why is it so hard for you to just say yes or no ?
sorry try again (http://youtube.com/watch?v=GUcXI2BIUOQ)
(If i asked whether you had anything and you answered you have something but not everything, why would that be anything less of an affirmative - in the same way to say we have free will but only within constraints is a yes)

sorry try again (http://youtube.com/watch?v=GUcXI2BIUOQ)
(If i asked whether you had anything and you answered you have something but not everything, why would that be anything less of an affirmative - in the same way to say we have free will but only within constraints is a yes)

Well, I seem to remember you saying that free will does not exist period. So i wanted to hear a straight 'yes' from you. Maybe I mixed you up with someone else though :shrug: