Libyan Desert Glass is found widely scattered over an area 130 km north to south by 53 km east to west.

The Libyan Desert of Egypt is one of Earth's most remote and inhospitable regions. Uninhabited, windblown and foreboding, the Sand Sea, near the Gilf Kebir Plateau, was nonetheless the site of a remarkable discovery in 1932.

After the 1932 discovery of Libyan Desert Glass, only two other expeditions (both of the 1930's) were undertaken to the location until 1971.

This latter exploration involved three scientists stopping over for only two hours and collecting some 24 samples of the glass. During this brief visit, the expedition accidentally found the site of a forced landing of an Egyptian aircraft with the remains of nine men.

The failure of Egyptian authorities to find the downed airplane for over three years is solemn validation of the remoteness of this arid region. In light of the foregoing, it is perhaps remarkable that a greater abundance of Libyan Desert Glass has been made available recently for collections and study than at any time since its discovery 65 years ago.

Libyan Desert Glass is classified by most meteoriticists with the group of curious natural glasses known as tektites. In 1900, Professor Franz E. Suess of Vienna coined the term tektite from the Greek tektos meaning "melted or molten."

Tektites are compositionally restricted, high silica, natural glasses distinguishably different from other, volcanically derived, natural glasses. Tektites range in size from microscopic (less than 1mm) to macroscopic weighing many kilograms.

The earliest written records come from mid-10th century China referring to the black, shiny objects found after rainstorms as lei-gong-mo, "inkstones of the thunder-god". Australian Aborigines called Australites ooga, "staring eyes". The origin and source of tektites remains a mystery.

In relation to all other tektite groups, Libyan Desert Glass exhibits a noteworthy number of unique attributes.

Lowest refractive index: 1.4616
Lowest specific gravity: 2.21
Highest silica content: 98%
Highest lechatelierite particles: fused quartz
Highest water content: 0.064%
Highest viscosity: almost 6X greater than Australites at the same temperature

Other unique attributes: Color, Bubble types: 100% of included bubbles are lenticular or irregular.

..There is no evidence whatsoever, of atmospheric aerodynamic shaping and it is therefore presumed that Libyan Desert Glass formed as a melt sheet of some sort, possibly by meteoritic impact some 28.5 millions years ago. Recent French studies concluded that meteoric elements in the glass, of almost chondritic proportions, "points to an impact origin".

Interestingly, the inclusion of the high number of lechatelierite (fused quartz) particles in Libyan Desert Glass also points to an extremely high, up to 1700 C, formation temperature. Impacts of large bodies at high velocity are certainly capable of creating such high temperatures.

But, the central issue in determining the impact origin of tektites remains, that is, how to transform a mass of crushed rock into a homogeneous and relatively bubble free liquid which rapidly cools to a glass.

Even the commercial production of glass takes many hours to relieve the melt of its volatile components. No partially melted material, or target rock inclusions, have ever been found in Libyan Desert Glass.

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf064/sf064g09.htm
http://www.aerolite.org/impactites.htm
http://www.amonline.net.au/geoscience/tektites/record_impactite.cfm?id=5

War...war never changes...

Yep , Patrick Clayton found them in Egypt in 1932 ......

I remember to have read in newspapers many, many years ago , that radioactive stones were found in the desert of Libya together with glass ........some of them found before atomic bombs were invented , so they ruled out nuclear explosions , but the scientists were still puzzled in those days ..........

Meteor impact makes sense ......

Lightning?

Lightning?

No ..... been there myself ........never rains ......
last big rainfall in the 1920´s ........ talked with many people , no lightnings ever ..........
the people there even build their houses of mud/sand/salt blocks ....that dissappear in rain ...

Then again climate could have been different thousands of years ago ........
Also, does lightning create radioactive isotopes ...???

There is lightning in the desert, even if it is rare.

Since fulgurites are real glasses, they are very resistant to weathering and are usually well preserved for a long period of time. For this reason they are used as paleoenvironmental indicators. For example, many fulgurites are found in the Sahara desert, where presently there is little lightning activity, confirming that very different conditions existed in this region in prehistoric times. A fossil fulgurite thought to be 250 million years old has been reported. (http://plaza.ufl.edu/rakov/Gas.html)

You do have a point , Spidergoat ............
Climate has probably changed ....
Still, I haven´t heard of radioactive isotopes created by lightning ....

The Mahabarata :

“The heavens cried out, the earth bellowed an answer, lightening flashed forth, fire flamed upwards, it rained down death. The brightness vanished, the fire was extinguished. Everyone who was struck by the lightening was turned to ashes”. And again from the same source: “It was a ghastly sight to see. The corpses of the fallen were so mutilated they no longer looked like human beings. Never before have we seen such an awful weapon, and never before have we heard of such a weapon”.

the Drona Parva:

“Encompassed by them (bowmen)…Bhisma smiting the while and uttering a leonine roar, took up and hurled at them with great force a fierce mace of destruction of hostile ranks. The mace of adamantine strength, hurled like Indra’s thunder by Indra himself, crushed, O King, thy soldiers in battle. And it seemed to fill…the whole earth with a loud noise. And blazing forth in splendour, that fierce mace inspired thy sons with fear. Beholding that mace of impetuous course and endowed with lightening flashes coursing towards them, thy warriors fled away uttering frightful cries. And at the unbelievable sound …of that fiery mace, many men fell down where they stood and many car (vimana or flying vehicle) warriors also fell down from their cars.”

In his book Secrets of the Lost Races writer Rene Noorbergen talks of charred ruins to be found between the River Ganges in India and the mountains of Rajamahal. "The walls have been glazed, corroded, and split by tremendous heat. Within several of the buildings that remain standing even the surfaces of the stone furniture have been vitrified: melted then crystallised. No natural burning flame or volcanic eruption could have produced heat intense enough to cause this phenomenon. Only the heat released through atomic energy could have done this damage"! Also in this same region a human body was discovered with a radioactivity "which was fifty times above the normal level".

In 1909 when academics were first beginning to grasp the awesome power of the atom, physicist Frederick Soddy wrote in his Interpretation of Radium: "I believe that there have been civilisations in the past that were familiar with atomic energy, and that by misusing it they were totally destroyed."

Remarkably Robert Oppenheimer the chief of the Manhattan Project that developed the first atomic device - that we know of - watched the test explosion rise up in a vast mushroom cloud and felt moved to quote from ancient Sanskrit: " I am become death, the destroyer of worlds"!

Perhaps Oppenheimer, more than anyone, realised that right then and there, at that very moment, man had become reacquainted with a piece of his history that had once cost him so dearly! The weapon of a "million suns" was again within his possession!

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/13920_stones.html

http://s8int.com/atomic1.html

I don't know someday scientists might really want to look at these theories...maybe it's just me.

Don´t know about alleged nukes in ancient time (highly unlikely), but a levitating stone of Shivapur - my ass ........
11 men lifting a 55 kg stone with a finger = 5 kg for each ....no problem ....

http://www.margaretdeefholts.com/levitatingstone-shivapur.html

please notice some can carry 323 kg in one finger :

http://recordholders.org/en/events/fl98.html

Ok then just ignore the levitating part of that site, thanks.

Don´t know about alleged nukes in ancient time (highly unlikely), but a levitating stone of Shivapur - my ass ........
11 men lifting a 55 kg stone with a finger = 5 kg for each ....no problem ....

http://www.margaretdeefholts.com/levitatingstone-shivapur.html

please notice some can carry 323 kg in one finger :

http://recordholders.org/en/events/fl98.html

Read the article carefully. The author says that the stone weighed 200 pounds. That's about 91 kilograms. It also describes how the author tried different things, including, and I was hoping for this, having 12 men attempt to lift it.

Then again climate could have been different thousands of years ago.According to Wikipedia, the Sahara has only been the desert we know since 2500BCE. Predynastic Egyptians grazed cattle there. Between 8000 and 6000BCE it had monsoons. The last time it was a desert like this was 11,000BCE. Check out the Sahara Pump Theory.

I couldn't have been a meteor because there isn't any signs of craters.
An ancient nuclear catastrophy is the only possible answer!

The only other thing, I could personally think of would be a huge/powerful solar flare or something like that.

Frankly the "evidence" points to atomic or equivalent energy release. Scientists are afraid to admit that and lose all credibility. I don't know why, it's no big deal. Humans have been "around" in present form for at least 80-100,000 years - homo sapian sapain. We might have had even enough time to "go 'round the rosie' three, four....five times? Who knows. It's hard to determine what happened even 1000 years ago, let alone 10000.

I couldn't have been a meteor because there isn't any signs of craters.
An ancient nuclear catastrophy is the only possible answer!

Actually it isn't found too far from the (suggested) Kebira crater (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kebira_crater). Look about 3/4 of the way down this page (http://www.fjexpeditions.com/frameset/landsat.htm) for the libya desert glass area. You can see both the crater and the glass area on this map. (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&q=&z=9&ll=24.948709,25.441589&spn=1.045909,1.867676&t=k&om=1)

Actually it isn't found too far from the (suggested) Kebira crater (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kebira_crater). Look about 3/4 of the way down this page (http://www.fjexpeditions.com/frameset/landsat.htm) for the libya desert glass area. You can see both the crater and the glass area on this map. (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&q=&z=9&ll=24.948709,25.441589&spn=1.045909,1.867676&t=k&om=1)

Very nice , Matt ...........

Read the article carefully. The author says that the stone weighed 200 pounds. That's about 91 kilograms. It also describes how the author tried different things, including, and I was hoping for this, having 12 men attempt to lift it.


I was referring to the link from N-fan ....it clearly states the weight as 55 kg (for eleven men) and 41 kg (for nine men)......... investigated by scientists ...hm,hmm...

The link I provided is from a tourist claiming one place that it weighs 200 pounds , but under the picture of the stone it says : 70 kg .........
I interpret that as, she has NO clue about the real weight ........

arrg just forget about the levitating rock or argue it in another thread.

Actually it isn't found too far from the (suggested) Kebira crater (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kebira_crater). Look about 3/4 of the way down this page (http://www.fjexpeditions.com/frameset/landsat.htm) for the libya desert glass area. You can see both the crater and the glass area on this map. (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&q=&z=9&ll=24.948709,25.441589&spn=1.045909,1.867676&t=k&om=1)

The Kebira impact crater might be one of the most credible causes to this phenomenon but although the glass is most likely a result of Kebira, the method by which it was created is open to question.

1. The glass is too pure – some of the purest natural silica glass ever found. If the glass shards are tektites (melted slag from volcanoes or meteor impacts), they should include the presence of other minerals.

2. The glass does exhibit small internal bubbles that include other elements. One of those elements is iridium, the presence of which indicates an extra-terrestrial origin, according to prevailing theories (see Alvarez, Luis W., et al. "Extraterrestrial Cause for the Cretaceous-Tertiary Extinction: Experimental Results and Theoretical Interpretation." Science 208 (1980) 1095-1108). However, the glass reveals no evidence of other minerals found in the region, such as halite and alumina.

3. Another area where this type of glass may be found is atomic test sites.

Another suggestion is that the glasses are of hydrothermal origin:
http://hometown.aol.de/SLVehicles4/LDG/LDG.htm

Looks awesome

http://www.fjexpeditions.com/resources/landsat/wassa_100.jpg

Another suggestion is that the glasses are of hydrothermal origin:
http://hometown.aol.de/SLVehicles4/LDG/LDG.htm
Quite an interesting hypothesis! however if there were traces of radioactivity detected in the region this would discredit the hydrothermal theory.

If you look at the satellite photographs of the huge black scar in the face of the Sinai peninsula and look at the heat-blackened stones, (sorry don't know how to insert images in this forum) go to the Dead Sea with a radiometer and take the radioactivity readings for yourself, read the ancient Sumerian lamentation texts describing death in the air from the radioactive cloud, or take a look at the completely independent weather study showing an abrupt climate change consistent with a nuclear fallout.

When excavations of Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro reached the street level, they discovered skeletons scattered about the cities, many holding hands and sprawling in the streets as if some instant, horrible doom had taken place. People were just lying, unburied, in the streets of the city.

And these skeletons are thousands of years old, even by traditional archaeological standards. What could cause such a thing? Why did the bodies not decay or get eaten by wild animals? Furthermore, there is no apparent cause of a physically violent death.

These skeletons are among the most radioactive ever found, on par with those at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. At one site, Soviet scholars found a skeleton which had a radioactive level 50 times greater than normal.

Other cities have been found in northern India that show indications of explosions of great magnitude. One such city, found between the Ganges and the mountains of Rajmahal, seems to have been subjected to intense heat. Huge masses of walls and foundations of the ancient city are fused together, literally vitrified! And since there is no indication of a volcanic eruption at Mohenjo-Daro or at the other cities, the intense heat to melt clay vessels can only be explained by an atomic blast or some other unknown weapon. The cities were wiped out entirely.
All these regions have large amounts of glass left over that could only materialize out of an intense heat source.
.

Hydrothermal systems can be radioactive too. Whether or not they can contain iridium though I do not know.

When a meteor explodes in atmosphere above a desert it can turn desert sand into glass.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5196362.stm

There are definitely traces of iridium in the LDG (Link. subscription required (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TJN-40YSJSB-W&_user=10&_coverDate=09%2F30%2F2000&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=13c2b112a6b5a0e745ffc54f316b10bc)), but I can't find anything that says iridium is produced in atomic blasts. I would have thought that fairly well rules out the ancient nuclear weapons idea.

Other cities have been found in northern India that show indications of explosions of great magnitude. One such city, found between the Ganges and the mountains of Rajmahal, seems to have been subjected to intense heat. Huge masses of walls and foundations of the ancient city are fused together, literally vitrified! And since there is no indication of a volcanic eruption at Mohenjo-Daro or at the other cities, the intense heat to melt clay vessels can only be explained by an atomic blast or some other unknown weapon. The cities were wiped out entirely.
All these regions have large amounts of glass left over that could only materialize out of an intense heat source.
.
Interesting!!!
Do you have a link?

Interesting!!!
Do you have a link?
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/arqueologia/esp_mohenjo_daro_1.htm#atomic_bomb
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/alien_AAtheory04.htm#Ancient%20Nuclear%20Warfare

The picture in #24 seems like it could not possibly have been formed by anything but electricity. Electricity forms that kind of fractal shape. Flowing liquids would follow the contours of the landscape and a source of heat high in the sky would create patterns with smooth curves. Impact would send ejecta in straight lines away from the center of the impact area. Only electricity would crawl along the ground like that and leave patterns like frozen lightning bolts.

I wonder if contour-mapping the land would show whether or not the patterns could be due to erosion. Those patterns do not look to me as if they could be formed by erosion but there has allegedly been a LOT of time for this to happen. The problem is that it is TOO articulated. There would have to be hundreds of sources of flowing glass to make those shapes. I wonder if the chemistry of the glass indicates that it could have been formed from the soil, what was in place, not something that came from somewhere else.

Looking at some of the more detailed photographs, I will say that this is definitely the result of a massive electrical discharge. Branches have branches and these branches often cross each other. It's when they get dense and make criss-cross patterns that it looks like it has to be electricity.

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/13920_stones.html

http://s8int.com/atomic1.html

I don't know someday scientists might really want to look at these theories...maybe it's just me.

They have. J. Robert Oppenheimer read the Bhagavad Gita in the original Sanskrit and that is part of the Mahabharata. I'm just picking up bits and pieces from Wikipedia, but it looks like he could have got some of his ideas from descriptions of the Mahabharata war. The man who is considered the "father of the atomic bomb" read these Indian scriptures long before he worked on the atomic bomb and quoted such scriptures when he saw the first atomic blast. According to stories he and several other scientists who worked on the atomic bomb project believed that this had happened before. These were some of the best minds on Earth so I would give them some credence.

Sure it's possible - exploding meteors.
Darwin has nothing to do with it.

I'm talking about the discussion that the ancient Hindus used nuclear weapons.

As I said - Darwin has nothing to do with it.

Nothing to do with people at about 8000 B.C. having nuclear weapons?

You many recall that Darwinists say those people where hunting, living in caves, and chipping flint tools, not quite nuclear science.

Yes. Maybe you should read something, before commenting on the man.

I've read plenty, and you're dodging the point, but that's ok, I know it's uncomfortable for you.

Apparently you've read nothing by Darwin, but you are right, colour it yourself church comic books count as reading too.

They have. J. Robert Oppenheimer read the Bhagavad Gita in the original Sanskrit and that is part of the Mahabharata. I'm just picking up bits and pieces from Wikipedia, but it looks like he could have got some of his ideas from descriptions of the Mahabharata war. The man who is considered the "father of the atomic bomb" read these Indian scriptures long before he worked on the atomic bomb and quoted such scriptures when he saw the first atomic blast. According to stories he and several other scientists who worked on the atomic bomb project believed that this had happened before. These were some of the best minds on Earth so I would give them some credence.
The dwapara yuga is said to have ended and great power/energy is said to be buried under sea on the Gujarat coast - I always wonder if this has something to with nuclear energy!?

Yes, Darwin would have found it right-in-line with his thesis that cavemen were making nuclear weapons, just ask Avatar, but Avatar how'd they do that, and where are the ruins of the nuclear plants which they used back in Darwinian "cave man days?"

Hey Avatar, were they the "Geico Caveman" branch of "Homo Erectus?"

The picture in #24 seems like it could not possibly have been formed by anything but electricity.

Oh good god... :bugeye:

Those are wadis cutting the edge of the Gilf Kebir plateau: Wadis are river valleys formed by occasional flash flooding, and that looks like fairly typical dendritic drainage to me. They look to be filled with windblown sand too. And what's more, they have nothing to do with the impact site or the glass.

...maybe some of the dessertglass is not created on impact, but rather by meteorites (partial) exploding midflight in the thin and cold stratosphere, wich would provide some hypothetical explanation for the aerodynamical shape, the quick cooling and the lack of air bubbles/ water vapour in the spheres...

We had a lengthy documentary on UK TV about this about two-three months back. Current thinking is that a very large meteor entered the atmosphere and caused a massive column of heated air rising up as it came down. I forget most of the technical spiel but effectively there were two columns (okay, one column and an annulus) of super-heated air. The outer one lifted sand and stuff up, and dropped it into the central column, where the tektites were formed. No radioactivity was mentioned, and the guys on-site were walking about in desert wellies, shirts and shorts.
The main proponent has done extensive CFD modelling and there were pretty impressive CGI displays of the effects of different-sized meteors. Apparently the composition of the meteor has to be just right, which is why there are so few sites of this kind around the world.
Ancient nuclear weapons my arse.

Can you remember what the documentary was called or what channel it was on? I'll see if I can catch a repeat.

To be quite honest I can remember neither - I'd had a long day at work, four sodding hours stood up on a train from London and it was the only thing watchable - (The Bill? no ta!) while ate my tea before collapsing into bed.
Might well have been Channel Five. If it comes to me I'll post something.

It wasnt this was it? Horizon.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5196362.stm

Damn! Yep that was it. Channel Five? I said it had been a long day. That's the one. Quite interesting as I recall, but the lead-in had made me think it WAS going to be woo-woo piece about "ancient nuclear weapons" - but it was just the pre-programme announcer getting carried away.

and the radiation?

You many recall that Darwinists say those people where hunting, living in caves, and chipping flint tools, not quite nuclear science. "Darwinists" are not involved in evaluating civilizations only 8000 years old in the middle east. That's after agriculture, in the region. Files under archeology, not evolution.

and the radiation? I'll call bullshit on the radiation, if no one else will. And contrary to practice, I'll do it without bothering to look up any of the evidence, or any links. All that stuff is crap, and a lot of it isn't even interesting crap any more.

The desert glass is interesting, of course.

and the radiation?
If you'd read my first post: No radioactivity was mentioned, and the guys on-site were walking about in desert wellies, shirts and shorts.

In one of the articles I mentioned there were iridium traces mentioned. Iridium is radioactive, but it is commonly found in meteors, as far as i can tell not in any form of A-bomb.

Ya I guess, Iridium can also get thrown up in the air in a major impact(65MYA event threw up a huge band of Iridium).

I will retract my connection to the indian site which DID have radiation.

Where's the crater? Africa sits on Precambrian-age crust. It shouldn't be too hard to find - it just takes a little searching like what was done for Vredefort in S. Africa.

Quite possibly here:
Actually it isn't found too far from the (suggested) Kebira crater (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kebira_crater). Look about 3/4 of the way down this page (http://www.fjexpeditions.com/frameset/landsat.htm) for the libya desert glass area. You can see both the crater and the glass area on this map. (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&q=&z=9&ll=24.948709,25.441589&spn=1.045909,1.867676&t=k&om=1)

If its an impact that is... an airburst may not leave a crater

Frankly the "evidence" points to atomic or equivalent energy release. Scientists are afraid to admit that and lose all credibility. I don't know why, it's no big deal. Humans have been "around" in present form for at least 80-100,000 years - homo sapian sapain. We might have had even enough time to "go 'round the rosie' three, four....five times? Who knows. It's hard to determine what happened even 1000 years ago, let alone 10000.

I think we had 5 ELEs (Extinction Level Events) in Earth's histroy in the last 750 million years. If you think, long ago there was a civilization between 3rd and 4th ELE, then 99.9% of the signs would be gone including if there was any items in space....by now. If such was the case, then we should speculate how to find such signs....

The other items, I am wondering is what was the Sun's output 500 million years ago? If it was high, then Mars would have been in the comfort zone, low...Venus. Something to speculate...

I'm open to the idea...which makes me a gullible fool in most people's estimation. I don't care.

Fools usually have no imagination nor can think out of the box. So, do not listen to them...:D

Meh, speculations lead nowhere, but self comfort.

The economic benefits of speculation

The service provided by speculators to a market is primarily that by risking their own capital in the hope of profit, they add liquidity to the market and make it easier for others to offset risk, including those who may be classified as hedgers and arbitrageurs.

For example, if a certain market - say in pork bellies - had no speculators, only producers (pig farmers) and consumers (butchers etc) would participate in that market. With fewer players in the market, there would be a larger spread between the current bid and ask price of pork bellies. Any new entrant in the market who wants to either buy or sell pork bellies will be forced to accept an illiquid market and market prices that have a large bid-ask spread, or might even find it difficult to find a co-party to buy or sell to. A speculator (e.g. a pork dealer) may exploit the difference in the spread and, in competition with other speculators, reduce the spread thus creating a more efficient market.

I think we had 5 ELEs (Extinction Level Events) in Earth's histroy in the last 750 million years. If you think, long ago there was a civilization between 3rd and 4th ELE, then 99.9% of the signs would be gone including if there was any items in space....by now. If such was the case, then we should speculate how to find such signs....

The other items, I am wondering is what was the Sun's output 500 million years ago? If it was high, then Mars would have been in the comfort zone, low...Venus. Something to speculate...

Humans are an extinction level event, but the animal rights people are making damned sure that the extinction occurs.

Humans are an extinction level event, but the animal rights people are making damned sure that the extinction occurs.

You may be right. Our own people make sure we do not make it to the stars. All over the galaxy, when the society reaches our level of maturity for the bipeds, they destroy themselves....that may be why, we have not seen anyone from outside....:D

I think that they either destroy themselves or get their act together.