Lately on Channel One News, this news show we hafta watch at school, they've been talking about the First Amendment. Today they talked about a school and their "Conservative Club". It ties into the First Amendment, but I forget right now exactly how.

My point . . . I had an idea of forming a Liberal Club. What I'd like to know is what exactly we could do with a Liberal Club. I have some ideas, but I don't know if they're very good or original.

So . . . What do ya think? What could I do with a Liberal Club?

-- Peace, Love, Health, and Happiness to all! Athelwulf.

whoa, you have to watch channel one as well. i hate that damn program. :m:

you could bring to people's attention the differences between liberals and conservatives, giving political and sociological examples.

whoa, you have to watch channel one as well. i hate that damn program. :m:

Wow, what a coincidence!

you could bring to people's attention the differences between liberals and conservatives, giving political and sociological examples.

This sounds like a kool idea. Care to explain further?

you could attemp to kill bush, but i dont think your school wolud condone that, so maybe find ways to bring down bush peacefully, or set up a system arcoss your country that will allow democrats to flee to canada when bush imposes the draft

:bugeye:

Slayer . . . It's a school club.

Here's a thought; Since some of you liberals seem to be so fascinated with assassination, why not form a Gun Club for Liberals.

In a school?

Talk about your next plan to kill off thousands of helpless babies, and calling it "a basic right of a woman."

Oh, now it's a plan? Typical. Flawed. Logic.

You seem to be forgetting an important detail about this Liberal Club: It's a school club.

Now . . . my next "plan", or our next "plan"?

You could discuss other methods of destroying the American cultural identity.

More. Flawed. Logic.

America has no culture of its own. America is a melting pot of all sorts of cultures around the world. Remember that.

You could figure out even more ways to denigrate the white male, while raising other races to a much higher level.

Man, ya just can't stand the fact that us crackers aren't the superior race. You made me ashamed to be Caucasian for a minute.

You could talk about more ways to accuse law-abiding American's of hate-crimes, such as racial profiling.

I'm sorry, I don't know what ye'r talking about.

And again, this is a school club.

You could sit around smoking pot . . .

This . . . is . . . a . . . school . . . club!

. . . and hugging trees.

How would that appeal to high-school students?

It really sucks. It is merely a ploy used to show advertising, and to feed us their liberal bias.

Ah, now it's our "ploy". You are oh so typical.

. . . Hey, now that I think about it . . . Are you Coolguy2342, the one that sent me those chain E-mails? If you are, ya failed to cite me as the one who referred ya to SciForums like I told ya.

More. Flawed. Logic.
How is it flawed. Let's see your logical reasoning. Make sure to say which law of logic you are using at any given time. If you use modus ponens to get from one step to another, state it. Let's see how good you actually are at logic, since you are so quick to criticize mine.


America has no culture of its own. America is a melting pot of all sorts of cultures around the world. Remember that.
If you were a true liberal, you wouldn't say "melting pot." It is now considered politically incorrect to say "melting pot." People don't simply melt together, they each have their own background. The proper term is "tossed salad." It's true. Look it up.

This . . . is . . . a . . . school . . . club!
You could meet after school. You failed to recognize my sarcasm. Talk about flawed logic.

How would that appeal to high-school students?

It appeals to all liberals (a.k.a "hippies").

. . . Hey, now that I think about it . . . Are you Coolguy2342, the one that sent me those chain E-mails? If you are, ya failed to cite me as the one who referred ya to SciForums like I told ya.
No, I am not this "coolguy." But if he has any better reasoning than you, than I think I would like this guy.

How is it flawed.

I'm sorry . . . Was that a question?

Let's see your logical reasoning.

I had already given it to you.

If you were a true liberal, you wouldn't say "melting pot." It is now considered politically incorrect to say "melting pot." People don't simply melt together, they each have their own background. The proper term is "tossed salad." It's true. Look it up.

How can there be such a thing as a "true liberal"?

I prefer to not use "tossed salad" because of its connotations.

You could meet after school.

We are high-school students.

You failed to recognize my sarcasm. Talk about flawed logic.

You failed to recognize my making fun of yer use of sarcasm. More. Flawed. Logic. ;)

It appeals to all liberals (a.k.a "hippies").

Here's some flawed logic right here. You associate the terms "hippy" and "liberal" as if they are the same thing, when they are not. Also, you are arguing with yer own idea of what a liberal is instead of with me, thus making it easier for you to attack an opinion I may have. If I'm correct, that's called straw man.

So . . . all hippies are liberals, and all liberals are hippies, ya say. I'll have you know I'm a redneck. So ha!

I ask you again, how would going and hugging a tree be an appealing activity?

No, I am not this "coolguy." But if he has any better reasoning than you, than I think I would like this guy.

He doesn't. ;)

I had already given it to you.
Where? You haven't said anything in this thread besides asking the original question, and attacking my logic. Which specific statement did you say any form of logic in? Tell me.


I had already given it to you.
SO WHAT??? When I was in high shcool, I met with my friends. Why can't you? Because you don't have any? Because eneryone has the sense not to join a liberal club?

You failed to recognize my making fun of yer use of sarcasm. More. Flawed. Logic.
I did not. I simply chose to ignore it. At least I can admit it. I don't brush it off as a "failed attempt at logic," as you do.

So . . . all hippies are liberals, and all liberals are hippies, ya say.
Pretty much. It's a generalization. You have to accept the fact that there might be one exception.

I ask you again, how would going and hugging a tree be an appealing activity?
It is to a hippy/liberal/environmentalist.

Th3darkt0w3r,

Where? You haven't said anything in this thread besides asking the original question, and attacking my logic. Which specific statement did you say any form of logic in? Tell me.

Man, you seem to not have developed reading skills. Well, since ya missed it, here it is in italics:

America has no culture of its own. America is a melting pot of all sorts of cultures around the world. Remember that.

On second thought, if any culture could be considered "American", it would be the many many many Native American cultures. In which case, the white man is close to succeeding in destroying the American cultural identity. We palefaces are the culprits!

It doesn't seem right that Caucasians could just come over to the New World, kill off or shoo away the people that were here first, and then later decide they don't want any more people coming here. Hypocricy is what it is.

SO WHAT??? When I was in high shcool, I met with my friends.

So do I.

Why can't you?

I do.

Because you don't have any?

I do have any.

Because eneryone has the sense not to join a liberal club?

I haven't even officially launched Project Liberal Club yet. And don't use absolutes, lest yer logic be flawed. ;)

I did not. I simply chose to ignore it. At least I can admit it. I don't brush it off as a "failed attempt at logic," as you do.

Ya really like playing this game, don't ya?

Pretty much. It's a generalization. You have to accept the fact that there might be one exception.

But ya can't just make generalizations like that. Ya can't do that in math, and ya can't do that in life.

It is to a hippy/liberal/environmentalist.

Whatever.

th3darkt0w3r - Yeah, they can sit around talking about abortions. Person A: "So, are you planning on getting an abortion anytime soon?" Person B: "Well, I'd love to... but I'm afraid I'm busy all this week." As a liberal, that's a conversation I hear all the time amongst my friends. (sarcasm, in case you didn't catch that.)

Athelwulf - I think a liberal club sounds like a good idea, but I don't really have any ideas... it depends on what sort of liberal you are, really. If I were heading up something like that, I'd do sort of some general stuff in support of third-party candidates (not necessarily specific candidates, just support of the general idea) and maybe the club could put together a resources list for information and ways to help with various issues and then post it places or hand it out or something. But I don't know... those are just my ideas, and I'm not even sure what all is okay to do as a school club (I'm homeschooled and have been all my life.)

you make me sick

Our feelings are mutual.

. . . That was directed at me, right?

One thing I've noticed about this thread is that liberals have difficulty with spelling and grammar.

Forgetting about me, are we?

th3darkt0w3r - Yeah, they can sit around talking about abortions. Person A: "So, are you planning on getting an abortion anytime soon?" Person B: "Well, I'd love to... but I'm afraid I'm busy all this week." As a liberal, that's a conversation I hear all the time amongst my friends. (sarcasm, in case you didn't catch that.)

I think I agree with th3darkt0w3r on this issue. I don't think he is talking about friends talking about their own abortions, but instead how to make it legal, or even preferred to get one. I'm pretty sure it was societal plans, not personal ones.

Athelwulf, you are being rather silly, and, frankly, rather child-like in your arguments. You automatically attack the argument based on no real observations. You skirt the issue at han, only to argue about the fact that the logic is flawed (without giving any explanation, even when asked). I am getting the feeling you don't really feel that way, and you just felt threatened because finally there is someone with better arguing skills than yourself. You feel threatened. Then you try to blame t0w3r of "playing these games," when you truly are the one participating in the games.

Here's what really makes me laugh. Th3darkt0w3r said that you could meet after school. Then you said that you can't, because you are a high school student. How is that a logical argument? Why the hell can't a high school club meet after school? And then you try to defend yourself by saying you do have friends, and you could meet after school. Lousy attempt to defend your honor!

Athelwulf, I have never known you to be a very good arguer, but this has to be your worst yet.

No, I am not this "coolguy." But if he has any better reasoning than you, than I think I would like this guy.
I am this person. And take it from me that I most certainly do have better reasoning skills (not to mention math skills, musical skills, general knowledge skills, writing skills, reading skills, et cetera) than Athelwulf. You know what? I think I like you, too!

Rubiks,

Athelwulf, you are being rather silly, and, frankly, rather child-like in your arguments.

Fine, you go ahead and think that.

You automatically attack the argument based on no real observations.

Sure.

You skirt the issue at han, only to argue about the fact that the logic is flawed (without giving any explanation, even when asked).

But I had given an explaination right after I said the logic was flawed and long before I was asked to give them. And on top of that, I restated my explaination and explained further right after being asked. It's not my fault if you or th3darkt0w3r missed all of that.

I am getting the feeling you don't really feel that way, and you just felt threatened because finally there is someone with better arguing skills than yourself.

And I'm getting the feeling that you believe that any argument for any opinion you share is sound, while an argument for any other opinion is flawed.

You feel threatened.

More obliged to argue with flawed logic than threatened.

Then you try to blame t0w3r of "playing these games," when you truly are the one participating in the games.

He started, I reciprocated. We were even. He could've left it at that, but he didn't.

Here's what really makes me laugh. Th3darkt0w3r said that you could meet after school. Then you said that you can't, because you are a high school student. How is that a logical argument? Why the hell can't a high school club meet after school? And then you try to defend yourself by saying you do have friends, and you could meet after school. Lousy attempt to defend your honor!

I seem to have a knack for making you laugh.

Yes, th3darkt0w3r said we could meet afterschool, but he said that in response to my response to his suggestion that we could smoke weed. If he's being ridiculously sarcastic, I feel I have the right to be ridiculously sarcastic right back.

As for my defending myself, it was in response to an ad hominem. Read it for yerself. He was insinuating that I had no friends. Ad hominem. And even if you think it was a lousy attempt, at least I have the right to defend my honor.

Athelwulf, I have never known you to be a very good arguer, but this has to be your worst yet.

You go ahead and think that.

you just felt threatened because finally there is someone with better arguing skills than yourself.


I have never known you to be a very good arguer

Now, let's see. You say finally there's someone with better arguing skills than him. That would imply it doesn't happen often - in fact, it implies it's never happened before. Then you say that you've never known him to be a good arguer; if that were true, then there would be people with better arguing skills than him all the time.

You contradicted yourself pretty majorly, dude.

Rubiks,

I've noticed this, too. Here are some theories:
1) They smoke too much pot, thereby destroying their brain cells,
2) They are undereducated (which I feel is one of the requirements for a person to fall under liberalism)
3) Just one more symptom of the mental disease of liberalism

Actually, these would be simple guesses. Dictionary.com defines "theory" as "a set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena." These cannot be theories, only guesses.

That, or it's yer nasty sarcasm again.

Now that is simply not true. Look at our entertainment industry. It is part of our culture. What we eat is part of our culture. Sure, we have Chinese restaurants, but we also invented McDonalds, Burger King, Dennys, etc. I could go on, but I want to keep this post short.

And you conservatives are worried about us libs destroying that?!

I feel that you are only trying to deny this because you want nothing to do with it.

Or kuz I see no culture that can be labeled as "American".

You have told me you don't like this country. The only logical conclusion to draw is that you are consciously denying an important fact so that it gives affirmation to your beliefs.

It is logical, but it's not the only drawable conclusion, and it's not why I think there is no American culture.

What does this mean? I am not fluent in this internet language.

Oh, je suis désolé. J'ai oublié. Tu ne parles pas Internet.
Oh, es tut mir Leid. Ich habe vergessen. Du kannst Internet nicht.

"RMFAO" bedeutet "Rolling my fucking ass off". Das war eigentlich ein Typo. Das söllte sein "LMFAO". :D

When I first saw this thread; I thought to myself; Hmm a liberal club, do they even know the meaning of liberal with all the years of distortion?.

The new-meaning of liberal seems to be somewhat like a free thinker, non-conservative social statist type of person in support of welfare social programs to help the poor, and basically to support the people.

But the true meaning today of liberalism-basically is just socialist!.



Today the term 'liberal' has come to be associated with a variety of principles, concepts and programs. Liberals are often associated with ideas related to a WELFARE STATE and a system of taxes, subsidies, deductions, payments, regulations, restrictions, permissions, refunds, entitlements and other such ideas and programs. The term was not always so associated.

However some of us old enough do remember the true meaning of liberalism;

Liberal meant to "liberate" or "free" and as applied to social questions meant that individuals should be as free from interference from the government as possible. There were and remain a number of theories that are based upon placing a very high value on human AUTONOMY, freedom or liberty. In social affairs it was taken to mean that individuals were to remain free to pursue their own interests and to work and to keep the results of their labor, that individuals had a right to property and to pursuit of what would make the happy. The ideas of the Utilitarians, Bentham and the Mills, contributed heavily to this view of how social life ought to be arranged. Along with it came the idea that government should not interfere with individual’s earnings and with businesses. There was the idea of Laissez- Faire economics. These ideas were supportive of capitalism.
http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/pecorip/SCCCWEB/ETEXTS/INTRO_TEXT/Chapter%209%20Social%20Philosophy/Liberalism_and_Conservativism.htm

But that's not the case for many decades under both parties. Today both US' political party go for getting elected or re-elected, having the larger turn-outs of votes, so they promise ever more and more social programs, not one iota of thought, is given that these social programs are the reasons they are strangling the middle class, and scaring buissiness out of this country to produce their products in a less restrictive enviorement towards them.

The welfare state, does not work. And it has become a draine in our resources, No I din't support the pundit in office! But I'm still a conservative, with liberal ideals. So Bush does make some good moves, along with some horrible ones, no one likes a bully!. And even the Pope thinks he's an idiot;
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/bush_pope.jpg
:D

Godless.

I agree... I don't know how democrats took the title of liberal... but republicans need to stop labeling them with it. It's an insult to the english language.

another interesting thing is the color change in the parties... the reps always used to be the Blue party... all the way back to the old union uniforms... Being of the party of lincoln, I want my damn color back... you guys can be green or something.

Lately on Channel One News, this news show we hafta watch at school, they've been talking about the First Amendment. Today they talked about a school and their "Conservative Club". It ties into the First Amendment, but I forget right now exactly how.

My point . . . I had an idea of forming a Liberal Club. What I'd like to know is what exactly we could do with a Liberal Club. I have some ideas, but I don't know if they're very good or original.

So . . . What do ya think? What could I do with a Liberal Club?

-- Peace, Love, Health, and Happiness to all! Athelwulf.

US democrats are certainly not socialists by European standards.

US democrats are certainly not socialists by European standards.

Good for us. Now what about my club? Does anyone have any ideas?

US democrats are certainly not socialists by European standards.

Well then what the hell would you call, WELFARE, MIDICAID, SOCIAL SECURITY, WIC, and too many programs that just slip my mind this morning?.

Athewulf;

So . . . What do ya think? What could I do with a Liberal Club?

You could start discussing history, where did liberal ideals spring from?. Who, what era, authors who promoted liberal ideals, and how it has been changed; morphed into some sort of socialist movement here in the states!.

Godless.

Well, you could all get together and discuss various stupid things Bush said and watch Michael Moore movies. Then you could peruse the local paper to find something you could protest. Maybe you could have a fundraiser and donate money to some trendy leftwing cause.

don't they do that already? :m:

US democrats are certainly not socialists by European standards.
they are... they just know how unpopular they are... so they do their best to mask it. It slips through now and again if you listen. ;)

why would a socialist be unpopular anywhere but a communist country. unless the others in that country are ingonrant to the greatnes of communism and socialism

"RMFAO" bedeutet "Rolling my fucking ass off". Das war eigentlich ein Typo. Das söllte sein "LMFAO".
Nein. Es söllte "LMFAO" sein. Man musst, wenn er ein Modal benützen, die Verb zum Ende bringen.

you could bring to people's attention the differences between liberals and conservatives, giving political and sociological examples.

To which I say, what differences?
All three of them?

And please, stop trying to label liberals as socialists. That'd be the same as labeling conservatives as libertarians.

The socialist movement never really caught on in America because we've never had a worker surplus like Europe has, and we have far more resources and space.

Athelwulf -

Here’s my two cents:

a) Figure out what exactly your club wants to do. Debate ideas? Fund raise for a party? Be a activist sort of thing? All of the above?
b) A club for liberals . . . a club about liberals . . . while it’s sometimes nice to have a group to belong to be it communist, fascist, conservative, liberal, green, or whatever, keep in mind that very few people fall into any one category. Whenever I go down to the states, my Democrat friends think that I’m conservative, and my Republican friends think I’m liberal. This is because I’m Christian, an internationalist, support a strong army, prefer diplomacy, believe that the government’s role in the economy is as a referee, agree with stem cell research . . . the list goes on. The point is, some things I’m liberal about, some things I’m conservative about. Most people are the same way.
Try this: Ask someone what they think – don’t ask what their political viewpoint is, and don’t bother labeling them. People’s ideas are usually more diverse than we give them credit for.

So go ahead. Liberal club . . . maybe a good idea. But I think that a better idea would be to have a ‘politics club’ or something. Just set a few ground rules promoting politeness and tolerance.

That’s all I’ve got. No offense intended and no disrespect given.

What the fuck?
You can't delete my perfectly valid post. If athelwulf wants to be so flamboyantly geeky he's going to need to deal with the consequences some time.